PC only boots after on/off/on cycle ?

[Skybuck Flying]

Today was another weird day electronics wise.

I had to pull out all cables.

The monitor did not want to turn off.

The old PC also didn't boot.

It does this each time but this time it was worse.

Anyway what I need to do to make it work is:

1. I turn it on, but nothing happens.
2. I turn it off.
3. I turn it on again and the PC goes into the BIOS stating that CPUs
setting was wrong.

I tried setting volts for cpu to 2.00, 2.05, 2.10 but that didnt help.

Really strange how it doesn't want to boot up the first time.

Any ideas what could be causing this ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

[Skybuck Flying]

Wow weirdest thing ever.

I was using windows live messenger and suddenly it seemed like the harddisk
turned off ?!

I had to reboot to computer... I was like: "wtf" "bizar".

Only time I saw a computer do that was when a cable was loose.

So far no loose cables, so totally weird.

Possible explanations:

1. Maybe one of the cables which isn't being used, caused a spark or so,
that would be scary if that was the case.
2. Maybe system is just old and slowing dieing.
3. Maybe touching PC case to attach headset cables caused damage because
grounding maybe not present. So it might go to the same way as the dreampc,
ohoh.
4. Maybe bot in messenger had something to do with it, me blocked it...
seems to cause trouble every time.
5. Maybe a network shutdown packet was received by PC.
6. Maybe there was a power drop on the power net, didn't notice any
flickering lights though.
7. Maybe one of the power cables is bad ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

[Flasherly]

On Nov 25, 9:11 pm, "Skybuck Flying" <BloodySh...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Today was another weird day electronics wise.

The on- & back-on thing is fairly old but relates to a PWR-good
condition lead wire in there in the power connector for ATX
standards. I've had enough of them exhibit that sort of behavior -
along with it's sister difficultly when turning them off: they go off,
but unless the case PWR off is held in for an inordinate time, they'll
just want to cycle right back up again.

If the BIOS loses !EverythinG! Not Good. Got some serious issues.
What I suspect, though, is the timings are being thrown off, by power
anomalies, and subsequently triggering a sort of BIOS error similar to
a mis-overclocked or wrongly setup condition. Not so much a serious
as PITA condition. I've had them, too (used to keep a scrap-paper
with overclocked settings pasted to the case, until I just said screw
it - let it error, do a warm reboot, and it would pick it up from
there again with workable default settings based on what the CPU and
memory report back to the BIOS).

Wear and tear in the daily machine workings of how computers get old
and lame-assed.

[GMAN]

Your damn battery is dead in your PC!!!!

[Don McKenzie]

On 28-Nov-12 3:21 AM, GMAN wrote:
> In article <96619$50b4281f$54193041$12...@cache80.multikabel.net>, "Skybuck Flying" <Blood...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Today was another weird day electronics wise.
>>
>> I had to pull out all cables.

> Your damn battery is dead in your PC!!!!

That is the way I figure it.

Check the time/date before you connect to the internet.

Don...


--
Don McKenzie

$30 for an Olinuxino Linux PC:
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olinuxino.html

The World's Cheapest Computer:
DuinoMite the PIC32 $25 Basic Computer-MicroController
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
Add VGA Monitor/TV, and PS2 Keyboard, or use USB Terminal
Arduino Shield, Programmed in Basic, or C.

[Paul]

In a typical PC, a CR2032 coin cell battery, maintains BIOS settings
and the real time clock. If the CR2032 is discharged, there is
nothing to maintain accurate time when the computer is unplugged.
If you don't want to replace the coin cell battery, then the
time settings must be re-entered, on each power-up of the PC.
Enter BIOS and set the clock, save, exit, boot.

Paul

[Michael Black]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012, Paul wrote:


>> Your damn battery is dead in your PC!!!!
>
> In a typical PC, a CR2032 coin cell battery, maintains BIOS settings
> and the real time clock. If the CR2032 is discharged, there is
> nothing to maintain accurate time when the computer is unplugged.
> If you don't want to replace the coin cell battery, then the
> time settings must be re-entered, on each power-up of the PC.
> Enter BIOS and set the clock, save, exit, boot.
>

It's more than that. All the BIOS settings are in the RAM that is battery
backed up. In the old days, you'd have to enter details of the hard drive
(or select from a menu) and that would go every time the computer forgot.
Same with boot sequence and all that.

With a dead battery, the cluelss might believe the computer is broken.

Let's not forget this is "Radium". A little knowledge is worse than a
lot. He'll pull out all kinds of things, only to realize the plug wasn't
in the wall (if he notices that). Or a different way of looking at it is
that he's posting for attention, a classic troll, and he has no real
problem or any need to "design a great 1998 computer today", he's doing it
to get a reaction. Note the crossposting, it's not as bad as in the old
days, but it's consistent with someone wanting to be annoying.

Michael

[Paul]

Naw, it's not Radium. Radium is much more destructive. And Radium
has certain trademarks that are entirely missing from Skybuck posts.
So they're not the same person. Radium throws tantrums more easily.
Radium can't help itself.

Paul

[Flasherly]

On Nov 27, 3:32 pm, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2012, Paul wrote:
> >> Your damn battery is dead in your PC!!!!
>
> > In a typical PC, a CR2032 coin cell battery, maintains BIOS settings
> > and the real time clock. If the CR2032 is discharged, there is
> > nothing to maintain accurate time when the computer is unplugged.
> > If you don't want to replace the coin cell battery, then the
> > time settings must be re-entered, on each power-up of the PC.
> > Enter BIOS and set the clock, save, exit, boot.
>
> It's more than that. All the BIOS settings are in the RAM that is battery
> backed up. In the old days, you'd have to enter details of the hard drive
> (or select from a menu) and that would go every time the computer forgot.
> Same with boot sequence and all that.
>
> With a dead battery, the cluelss might believe the computer is broken.

I just bought a BiosedStar MB a couple months ago and returned it
because it wouldn't hold BIOS settings. Who wants to turn on a
computer that flashes in your face: Warning! Warning! Will Rogers --
Danger Due to CMOS MisMatch!

It wasn't a 2032 but close enough (according to WIKI) to open -very
first thing- the computer next to it, handy dandy like, and pull its
2032 for a substitute.

Some -- not many, yet some nevertheless do have BIOS issues. Had
another one, I sold identified for such, that had a knack for dropping
CPU multipliers to x4 instead of x12, were the CPU properly picked up.

I flash them, too, first thing as a manner of course. Although the
replacement for the BiosedStar, a nice little P4 Gigabytle, I did a
revisionary flash to a BIOS dated prior to what was provided. Seemed
different. How many people do you know that buy a new MB and put an
old BIOS on it for no particular reason? It's not at all like I
planned it.

(Actually, it had at USB slotted entry BIOS progressions, that, in
order turn on USB S3, a normal series of recognizable USB settings had
to be first engaged for an on state. However, I did, again without
reason, leave on the S3, and that appeared caused me some grief
because the computer wouldn't work right, had streaming/speed issues
with USB and HDs, until S3 was disengaged. Of course not nearly as
fast as this is transpiring. Hardly that. I suspect I may in the
physics of anomalistic retaliation have been spirited to a rebuttal in
form of a former BIOS revision. But, I've still got that S3 in
there. Do you know what in hell it is?)

[mike]

There's a lot more going on in the BIOS than the clock.
If you used anything but the defaults, they need to be changed too.
I just went thru a big hassle with system instability because I forgot
to turn hyperthreading back on in the BIOS.

[Don McKenzie]

The sad part about this thread is that someone apparently in need of assistance asks for it, everyone including me jumps
in to help, then the original poster either doesn't read the thread, or decides not to follow it, and doesn't respond in
anyway.

Leaving all follow up posters to guess at the problem and the fix.

[Spuckle]

On 28/11/2012 11:40 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
>
> The sad part about this thread is that someone apparently in need of
> assistance asks for it, everyone including me jumps in to help, then the
> original poster either doesn't read the thread, or decides not to follow
> it, and doesn't respond in anyway.
>
> Leaving all follow up posters to guess at the problem and the fix.
>
> Don...
>
>

Don, I'm amazed anyone who have been around these NG's for more than a
month or so replies to "Skybuck".

You have to give him points for persistent trolling! :)

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 14:40:28 +1100, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:

>
>The sad part about this thread is that someone apparently in
> need of assistance asks for it, everyone including me jumps
>in to help, then the original poster either doesn't read the
> thread, or decides not to follow it, and doesn't respond in
>anyway.

"any way'

IFYPFY

>
>Leaving all follow up posters to guess at the problem and the fix.
>
>Don...

It's a dead battery.

Usenet line length should be held below 73 characters.

[Don McKenzie]

Hmmmm..... Just reset from 120 back to 72
Don't know why it gets out of wack from time to time.
Could be the number of Tbird versions.

"Any way", appears OK now. :-)

[Skybuck Flying]

> Your damn battery is dead in your PC!!!!

At first it sounded logical, me being at a loss I gave it a shot, I went to
the store and bought 2 batteries which are exactly like the previous one.

CR 2032 VARTA it says jul-2022 so I guess these batteries will last 10 years
or so.

I tried it, I put them into the PC.

Today I booted the PC and nothing, again a black screen. I had to boot it
twice.

Now that I think about it some more it wasn't logical after all.

I have never seen a PC boot to a black screen because of a dead battery.

It could probably simulate that scenerio by leaving the battery out of it...
but won't do it now maybe later.

So another 10 bucks wasted but it was worth a shot.

Now back to other theories why this could be happening:

1. The motherboard is simply damage in some way when the previous power
supply blew.

2. Perhaps the power on switch header is wrongly connected.

3. Perhaps it has something to do with the power on button. I never liked
that button... I suspect it has something to do with it... maybe it produces
a power surge of some kind.

Bye,
Skybuck.

[Skybuck Flying]

"Don McKenzie" <5...@2.5A> wrote in message
news:ahlfdc...@mid.individual.net...

>
> The sad part about this thread is that someone apparently in need of
> assistance asks for it, everyone including me jumps in to help, then the
> original poster either doesn't read the thread, or decides not to follow
> it, and doesn't respond in anyway.
>
> Leaving all follow up posters to guess at the problem and the fix.
>
> Don...

I have read all threads as usual... and I tried to fix it (battery
replacement)... unfortunately no success so far.

I did try an overclock long ago to see how that turned out from 450 mhz to
600 mhz... then it frooze once, maybe that damaged the processor's boot
capabilities in some way... but I don't think so...

Even my DreamPC sometimes had booting problems with this chieftec case and
the seasonic s12 600 watt power supply... now my Pentium III 450 mhz uses it
and some of that behaviour is the same but now even worse... it does it
almost each time.

Later today I will pick up 2 new motherboards to fix my DreamPC 2006... and
also new memory of the old Pentium III 450 mhz...

Once that works I will take pictures of the pentium III 450 mhz bios
settings so you guys can have a look at it... maybe you will spot something
weird... I never really had to set it up in the bios to get it booting
properly so it's probably unlikely that it's a bios setting that is causing
trouble but will show anyway.

Bye,
Skybuck.

[Flasherly]

You'd know immediately if it were the power button. Had one with
intermittent connects when engaging. MB responses are immediate to
that sort of sensitivity. It'll stand out like a sore thumb or
electrical shock. Power supplies, though, can be some of the worst
ways to go about troubleshooting for problems that there wouldn't
appear neither rhyme nor reason for. I know there have been instances
when I simply took a spare power supply I had around for new stock,
and simply connected it for nothing more worse for wear than a quick
fix. An intuitive hunch that went down as quick as a Hostess
Twinkie. Still, and though my days of buying dirt-cheap, no-name PS
units may have passed, I'll still never again fully trust them. MBs,
past PS units, just possibly might come in second place for insidious
reasons for demon-possessed computers -- like the MB I had that slowly
at first, but with a persistently advancing appetite, would eat up and
then, sooner than later, spit out all my perfectly ruined but
beautiful, hand-selected power supply units.

The PS is still the cheaper alternative to a no-brainer, bald-faced,
modular swap-out fix attempt. Who says it has to be gamer or server
grade? May be a local unit from a chain store, that from "all
indications," didn't quite fit the bill for a return on purchase
price, you do understand. Order out for the real stuff -- nor, a bad
idea, at all, to have a spare from when they're on sale. It should
then make a unmistakable difference, if the problem is one of
emancipated electrons.

[JW]

On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 04:11:04 -0800 (PST) Flasherly <Flas...@live.com>
wrote in Message id:
<c23bfb57-94bb-4a5d...@u9g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>:

[...]

>You'd know immediately if it were the power button. Had one with
>intermittent connects when engaging. MB responses are immediate to
>that sort of sensitivity. It'll stand out like a sore thumb or
>electrical shock. Power supplies, though, can be some of the worst
>ways to go about troubleshooting for problems that there wouldn't
>appear neither rhyme nor reason for. I know there have been instances
>when I simply took a spare power supply I had around for new stock,
>and simply connected it for nothing more worse for wear than a quick
>fix. An intuitive hunch that went down as quick as a Hostess
>Twinkie. Still, and though my days of buying dirt-cheap, no-name PS
>units may have passed, I'll still never again fully trust them. MBs,
>past PS units, just possibly might come in second place for insidious
>reasons for demon-possessed computers -- like the MB I had that slowly
>at first, but with a persistently advancing appetite, would eat up and
>then, sooner than later, spit out all my perfectly ruined but
>beautiful, hand-selected power supply units.
>
>The PS is still the cheaper alternative to a no-brainer, bald-faced,
>modular swap-out fix attempt. Who says it has to be gamer or server
>grade? May be a local unit from a chain store, that from "all
>indications," didn't quite fit the bill for a return on purchase
>price, you do understand. Order out for the real stuff -- nor, a bad
>idea, at all, to have a spare from when they're on sale. It should
>then make a unmistakable difference, if the problem is one of
>emancipated electrons.

Uhhh... Yeah, what he said.

[Flasherly]

On Nov 29, 7:46 am, JW <n...@dev.null> wrote:
>
> Uhhh... Yeah, what he said.

Damn, and I just finished upgrading my last remaining spare power
supply with the rest of a new computer?

[JW]

On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 05:03:37 -0800 (PST) Flasherly <Flas...@live.com>
wrote in Message id:
<ba097dc4-1102-4ce6...@a15g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>:

Is that what happened? Well, whaddya know.

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 11:15:59 +0100, "Skybuck Flying"
<Blood...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I have never seen a PC boot to a black screen because of a dead battery.

Your graphics card is not connected properly.

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 11:15:59 +0100, "Skybuck Flying"
<Blood...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>... maybe it produces
>a power surge of some kind.

Through you would be ideal.
But such dreams never come true.

Your last few responses have been truly comical.

[GMAN]

Skybuck is not "Connected" properly!

[GMAN]

Skybucks problems comes from a lack of female, or possibly male, intimate
contact.

[Michael A. Terrell]

I bet he's into sheep, like Phil. :)

[Flasherly]

On Nov 29, 8:59 am, JW <n...@dev.null> wrote:

>
> Is that what happened? Well, whaddya know.

Very little now, I suppose, in any rhetorical sense if contrarian
truth can be established on an Aristotelean precept that everything is
something else when it breaks.

[JW]

On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 12:54:25 -0800 (PST) Flasherly <Flas...@live.com>
wrote in Message id:
<91612441-b726-455e...@eo2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>:

I stand utterly mystified and completely dumbfounded - much the same way
one feels after discovering that their cats have been glued together for
no particular reason.

[Skybuck Flying]

Ha-ha.

The stupid thing is... I had dead motherboards with exactly these batteries
! ;) :)

Could have saved those 10 bucks ! LOL ;) =D

Bye,
Skybuck.

P.S. 1: Serves me right for listening to 15 year old kids ! LOL.

P.S. 2: I removed the batteries from the dead motherboards, maybe they ll
come in use some day ! ;) =D

P.S. 3: I got a huge ammount of surplus/additional equipment like cables,
could sell them off maybe for additional cash if needed ;)

For now it's ok lol. I am starting to feel like a hardware shop... or the
junk yard from transformers ! =DDDDD

Bye,
Skybuck ;) =DD ;)

[GMAN]

Thank God its not just me. I cannot seem to understand a F@$king thing
Flasherly says. I think it might be that he's running his native language thru
some sort of google translater or something.

[GMAN]

In article <a2553$50b8c527$5419b3e4$20...@cache60.multikabel.net>, "Skybuck Flying" <Window...@DreamPC2006.com> wrote:
>Ha-ha.
>
>The stupid thing is... I had dead motherboards with exactly these batteries
>! ;) :)
>
>Could have saved those 10 bucks ! LOL ;) =D
>
>Bye,
> Skybuck.
>
>P.S. 1: Serves me right for listening to 15 year old kids ! LOL.
>
>P.S. 2: I removed the batteries from the dead motherboards, maybe they ll
>come in use some day ! ;) =D
>

Sitting in motherboards in a box for years most likely drained them. By the
way, the CR2032 batteries are usually $1.99 each in the US.

[Rene Lamontagne]

I think his synapses are shorted

[JW]

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:10:58 GMT Winnie...@100acrewoods.net (GMAN)
wrote in Message id:
<dU4us.528700$iq1.3...@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com>:

>
>Sitting in motherboards in a box for years most likely drained them. By the
>way, the CR2032 batteries are usually $1.99 each in the US.

That'll buy you 7 at Digikey.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CR2032/P189-ND/31939

And they're not exactly known for great deals. Even cheaper on Ebay.

[Robert Macy]

On Nov 25, 7:11 pm, "Skybuck Flying" <BloodySh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Today was another weird day electronics wise.
>
> I had to pull out all cables.
>
> The monitor did not want to turn off.
>
> The old PC also didn't boot.
>
> It does this each time but this time it was worse.
>
> Anyway what I need to do to make it work is:
>
> 1. I turn it on, but nothing happens.
> 2. I turn it off.
> 3. I turn it on again and the PC goes into the BIOS stating that CPUs
> setting was wrong.
>
> I tried setting volts for cpu to 2.00, 2.05, 2.10 but that didnt help.
>
> Really strange how it doesn't want to boot up the first time.
>
> Any ideas what could be causing this ?
>
> Bye,
>   Skybuck.

bad power supply.

[David]

Intellectual jousting.

[GMAN]

OK, good source as long as they are name brand .I am not going to stick a 10
pack of made in vietnam Cr2032's in my motherboards.


I was just trying to point out the SkyF&*k that they should ever be $5 a pop.

[Chris S.]

"GMAN" <Winnie...@100acrewoods.net> wrote in message
news:wvtus.153983$eq1....@en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com...

A recent buy from China got me a card of 5 Sony, made in Japan, for $0.99,
delivered!
Good "use by date" as well.

Chris

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 16:56:07 -0500, the renowned "Chris S."
<csi...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:

>
>A recent buy from China got me a card of 5 Sony, made in Japan, for $0.99,
>delivered!
>Good "use by date" as well.
>
>Chris

ITYM "marked Sony, made in Japan".



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

[Chris S.]

"Spehro Pefhany" <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:f83lb81k1vi6gsuo5...@4ax.com...

Clearly stamped "Japan" on the battery. Marked "Matsushita Electric
Industrial Co, Ltd
Osaka 570 , Japan" on the card. EXP DATE 12-2017

Chris

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 18:30:08 -0500, the renowned "Chris S."
<csi...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:

>
>Clearly stamped "Japan" on the battery. Marked "Matsushita Electric
>Industrial Co, Ltd
>Osaka 570 , Japan" on the card. EXP DATE 12-2017
>
>Chris

Sorry Chris, but your naivety is showing.

Those markings and a buck won't even get you a cup of coffee. Markings
mean little in China.

--sp (old China hand)

p.s. here is an ebay guide on spotting fake Sony batteries. If you
send the packaging photos to Sony for verification and they report the
batteries are genuine, then I will believe it.

http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Buying-genuine-Sony-Batteries-and-avoiding-fakes?ugid=10000000017924994

As you can seem, the fakes are really quite good, including holograms.
You may not care that they are fake, but if they leak and damage your
device, you may care. More likely they'll just not last as long as the
genuine cells.

[Chris S.]

"Spehro Pefhany" <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message

news:np4lb8968sof03af6...@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 18:30:08 -0500, the renowned "Chris S."
> <csi...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Clearly stamped "Japan" on the battery. Marked "Matsushita Electric
>>Industrial Co, Ltd
>>Osaka 570 , Japan" on the card. EXP DATE 12-2017
>>
>>Chris
>
> Sorry Chris, but your naivety is showing.
>
> Those markings and a buck won't even get you a cup of coffee. Markings
> mean little in China.
>
> --sp (old China hand)
>
> p.s. here is an ebay guide on spotting fake Sony batteries. If you
> send the packaging photos to Sony for verification and they report the
> batteries are genuine, then I will believe it.
>
> http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Buying-genuine-Sony-Batteries-and-avoiding-fakes?ugid=10000000017924994
>
> As you can seem, the fakes are really quite good, including holograms.
> You may not care that they are fake, but if they leak and damage your
> device, you may care. More likely they'll just not last as long as the
> genuine cells.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> Spehro Pefhany

They are not cells, they are batteries.

I'm a retired EE from NBS (now NIST).
They pass the tests that I care to apply. Voltage under load, physical
inspection.
I'll post back in >5 years to test my naiveté.

Chris

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 19:03:28 -0500, the renowned "Chris S."
<csi...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:

>
>
>They are not cells, they are batteries.

Okay, then not the 3V CR2032 Li button single cells we were talking
about. What manner of battery or cell are they?

>I'm a retired EE from NBS (now NIST).
>They pass the tests that I care to apply. Voltage under load, physical
>inspection.

Cool. Does the nominal voltage agree with them being Magnanese Dioxide
Lithium chemistry (or whatever they are supposed to be)? AFAIUI, some
of the fake primary lithium cells are actually alkaline.

If they were Panasonic CR2032s they should have just under 3.0V
voltage at 20°C with a 15K load:

http://panasonic.com/industrial/includes/pdf/Panasonic_Lithium_CR2032_CR2330.pdf

>I'll post back in >5 years to test my naiveté.

If you put a resistor across one and noted the voltage on a daily
basis it would only take a month or two, and you'd have a nice curve.

>Chris

Well, unless you misspoke, if the batteries are marked "Sony" on the
card, and stamped "Matsushita" individually, they are as fake as they
come. As of a few years ago, Matsushita is now called Panasonic
worldwide, a completely different company from ('to') Sony. The
Matsushita name has been retired.

[k...@att.bizzz]

On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 18:43:05 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

>On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 18:30:08 -0500, the renowned "Chris S."
><csi...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Clearly stamped "Japan" on the battery. Marked "Matsushita Electric
>>Industrial Co, Ltd
>>Osaka 570 , Japan" on the card. EXP DATE 12-2017
>>
>>Chris
>
>Sorry Chris, but your naivety is showing.
>
>Those markings and a buck won't even get you a cup of coffee. Markings
>mean little in China.

Particularly since Matsushita Electric is now called *Panasonic* not
Sony. ;-)

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 19:03:28 -0500, "Chris S." <csi...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:

>
>They are not cells, they are batteries.

No, IDIOT! They are NOT batteries, they ARE CELLS!

A singular device I a CELL. Only retards in the 60s and 70s started
this calling them alL a "battery" when they are (were) NOT such.

A battery is a group of cells.

You are clueless.

>
>I'm a retired EE from NBS (now NIST).

Whoopie fucking doo, boy. What you never did, obviously is study
ANYTHING about word origins. Depite learning the trade, you obviously
have issues with words which have more than one meaning, much less those
with only one.

They are CELLs.

>They pass the tests that I care to apply. Voltage under load, physical
>inspection.
>I'll post back in >5 years to test my naiveté.

It doesn't matter where they are made. If they have the correct fully
charged starting voltage, they will feed into the proper load for that
form factor cell, and they will NOT ever jump to some higher, unsafe
voltage. So all you idiots who said "I would never put a VietNam battery
in my motherboard" is just a total fucking retard.

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:03:17 -0800, the renowned ChairmanOfTheBored
<RUB...@crackasmile.org> wrote:

>On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 19:03:28 -0500, "Chris S." <csi...@nospamverizon.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>They are not cells, they are batteries.
>
> No, IDIOT! They are NOT batteries, they ARE CELLS!
>
> A singular device I a CELL. Only retards in the 60s and 70s started
>this calling them alL a "battery" when they are (were) NOT such.

Origins aside (and I have some sympathy for the precriptivist
argument), it's considered acceptable these days* to call a cell a
battery.. but it's never acceptable to call a multi-cell battery a
"cell".

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/battery?s=t

He or she said it was _not_ a cell. That is saying that it consists of
more than one cell. So, certainly not a lithium CR2032 'battery',
which is a single button cell.

* the rot seems to have set in earlier than the 60s and 70s-- my 1949
edition of the "Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers" says,
somewhat snarkily, "In accordance with common usage the term is also
applied to a single cell". Common usage usually wins out in the long
run-- there are more commoners than nobility, after all.

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:30:55 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

>, it's considered acceptable these days* to call a cell a
>battery.

That is what I said. It started in the 60s and 70s so any of you dopes
who were born or attempted to grow up since then have been using the
errant but accepted stupidity.

I KNOW the history.

It is a fucking CELL.

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:30:55 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

>* the rot seems to have set in earlier than the 60s and 70s-- my 1949
>edition of the "Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers" says,
>somewhat snarkily, "In accordance with common usage the term is also
>applied to a single cell". Common usage usually wins out in the long
>run-- there are more commoners than nobility, after all.

Yes. Handheld, tube operated, and therefore HV (as it were) requiring
military radio sets were fun little items. The tubes were like my baby
finger in size. Needed a 67.5 Volt battery. That WAS more than one
Cell.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:03:17 -0800, ChairmanOfTheBored
<RUB...@crackasmile.org> wrote:

>On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 19:03:28 -0500, "Chris S." <csi...@nospamverizon.net>
>wrote:
>>They are not cells, they are batteries.

> No, IDIOT! They are NOT batteries, they ARE CELLS!

Y'er both wrong. It's called a pile.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaic_pile>


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:30:55 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

> but it's never acceptable to call a multi-cell battery a
>"cell".

ONLY if you use an array of those, all alike, to produce another
"battery". In such a case, each 'battery' could be called a cell of the
whole, finished device.

Like a box full of 9 Volt cells wired in an array. Then one could
rightly say "Each of those is a cell in my new battery."

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 21:57:00 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:03:17 -0800, ChairmanOfTheBored
><RUB...@crackasmile.org> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 19:03:28 -0500, "Chris S." <csi...@nospamverizon.net>
>>wrote:
>>>They are not cells, they are batteries.
>
>> No, IDIOT! They are NOT batteries, they ARE CELLS!
>
>Y'er both wrong. It's called a pile.
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaic_pile>

Thought you'd pile some on too, huh? :-)

So, would more then one be called a 'pilery'?

[Jasen Betts]

On 2012-11-30, Skybuck Flying <Window...@DreamPC2006.com> wrote:
> Ha-ha.
>
> The stupid thing is... I had dead motherboards with exactly these batteries
> ! ;) :)
>
> Could have saved those 10 bucks ! LOL ;) =D

10 bucks is way too much to pay. If you need one in hurry buy it at the supermarket.

> P.S. 1: Serves me right for listening to 15 year old kids ! LOL.
>
> P.S. 2: I removed the batteries from the dead motherboards, maybe they ll
> come in use some day ! ;) =D

theyre good for testing LEDs

--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

[Jasen Betts]

On 2012-12-01, Chris S. <csi...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:

>> I was just trying to point out the SkyF&*k that they should ever be $5 a
>> pop.
>
> A recent buy from China got me a card of 5 Sony, made in Japan, for $0.99,
> delivered!
> Good "use by date" as well.

Made in Japan shipped from China? I have a bridge you may be interested in.

[Jasen Betts]

On 2012-12-01, Chris S. <csi...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>
>>

>> ITYM "marked Sony, made in Japan".
>>
>

> Clearly stamped "Japan" on the battery. Marked "Matsushita Electric
> Industrial Co, Ltd
> Osaka 570 , Japan" on the card. EXP DATE 12-2017

Sony on the wrapper and Panasonic on the case ?

Sounds like a forgery.

[Jasen Betts]

On 2012-12-02, Chris S. <csi...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:


>>
>> As you can seem, the fakes are really quite good, including holograms.
>> You may not care that they are fake, but if they leak and damage your
>> device, you may care. More likely they'll just not last as long as the
>> genuine cells.
>>

> They are not cells, they are batteries.

they are cells.

> I'm a retired EE from NBS (now NIST).

Ignorant of chemistry apparently.

[Jasen Betts]

On 2012-12-02, Spehro Pefhany <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

> Well, unless you misspoke, if the batteries are marked "Sony" on the
> card, and stamped "Matsushita" individually, they are as fake as they
> come. As of a few years ago, Matsushita is now called Panasonic
> worldwide, a completely different company from ('to') Sony. The
> Matsushita name has been retired.

Perhaps some Chinaman got the old tooling cheap on E-bay?

[Jasen Betts]

you could, but you'd be wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrochemical_cell

--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:03:17 -0800, ChairmanOfTheBored
> <RUB...@crackasmile.org> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 19:03:28 -0500, "Chris S." <csi...@nospamverizon.net>
> >wrote:
> >>They are not cells, they are batteries.
>
> > No, IDIOT! They are NOT batteries, they ARE CELLS!
>
> Y'er both wrong. It's called a pile.
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaic_pile>

What a coincidence! So is dimbulb.

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

Whereas instead of simply being called one, you actually are one.

Make sure to put those shitty fingers into that hole-y mouth, so you
can fester faster, fucker!

Bwuahahahaahahahahahaahahaha!

[GMAN]

These batteries are also known, even in the larger sizes like the CR2032's as
button cells.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jasen Betts wrote:
>
> On 2012-12-02, Spehro Pefhany <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>
> > Well, unless you misspoke, if the batteries are marked "Sony" on the
> > card, and stamped "Matsushita" individually, they are as fake as they
> > come. As of a few years ago, Matsushita is now called Panasonic
> > worldwide, a completely different company from ('to') Sony. The
> > Matsushita name has been retired.
>
> Perhaps some Chinaman got the old tooling cheap on E-bay?

What makes you think Panasonic didn't destroy their old tooling? WTF
would it end up on ebay?

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jasen Betts wrote:
>
> On 2012-12-01, Chris S. <csi...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> ITYM "marked Sony, made in Japan".
> >>
> >
> > Clearly stamped "Japan" on the battery. Marked "Matsushita Electric
> > Industrial Co, Ltd
> > Osaka 570 , Japan" on the card. EXP DATE 12-2017
>
> Sony on the wrapper and Panasonic on the case ?
>
> Sounds like a forgery.

Made by farmers who are locked inside a Chinese factory, no doubt.

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Sun, 02 Dec 2012 16:38:12 GMT, Winnie...@100acrewoods.net (GMAN)
wrote:

Unbelieveable! You forgot the quotes! :-)

> are also known, even in the larger sizes like the CR2032's as
>button cells.

Absolutely so!

[Spehro Pefhany]

Nobody dumped any tooling anyway*. They're still making the batteries.
Changing markings on a production line costs almost nothing and can be
done in minutes.

BTW, the ones I've gotten in production quantity through the
legitimate distribution chain were made in Panasonic's factory in
Indonesia, not in Japan. Here's why:-

Min wage per month (US$)
Indonesia $85
China (Shenzhen/GZ) $208/202
Japan $937
US $1257
Canada $1392

Despite Indonesia being a rather corrupt country with political
instability and creaky infrastructure, it's really, really cheap to
produce a simple product like a battery or button cell that has only a
few component parts (metal and chemicals and packaging).

* I toured a mothballed alkaline battery factory not that long ago- in
the Toronto area (mostly AA cells). Lots of machinery on the lines
(packaging and assembly). It's not much more sophisticated than
packaging toothpaste- cram the chemicals into the housing, seal it up,
test and package it. At ~$10 for 48 no-name batteries these days, I
don't think they had the scale to compete- it was only about 8000 or
10,000 ft^2 IIRC.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > What makes you think Panasonic didn't destroy their old tooling? WTF
> >would it end up on ebay?
>
> Nobody dumped any tooling anyway*. They're still making the batteries.
> Changing markings on a production line costs almost nothing and can be
> done in minutes.

That is the tooling I was referring to. The plate that imprints the
casing.

[David]

On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 18:30:08 -0500, Chris S. wrote:

> "Spehro Pefhany" <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message

> news:f83lb81k1vi6gsuo5...@4ax.com...

>> On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 16:56:07 -0500, the renowned "Chris S."
>> <csi...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>A recent buy from China got me a card of 5 Sony, made in Japan, for
>>>$0.99,
>>>delivered!
>>>Good "use by date" as well.
>>>

>>>Chris

>>
>> ITYM "marked Sony, made in Japan".
>>
>>
>>

>> Best regards,
>> Spehro Pefhany --
>> "it's the network..." "The Journey is the
>> reward"
>> sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers:
>> http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for
>> designers: http://www.speff.com
>

> Clearly stamped "Japan" on the battery. Marked "Matsushita Electric
> Industrial Co, Ltd Osaka 570 , Japan" on the card. EXP DATE 12-2017
>
> Chris

Matsushita = Panasonic, not Sony. Sounds like a fake.

[David]

A 9 volt BATTERY consists of six 1.5V CELLS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-volt_battery

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

I KNOW THAT, you fucking retard!

NOW, IDIOT! Go back and read the post again.

IF I used an ARRAY of 9 volts batteries where each of them then become
a singular "cell" of my new battery array, they would be.

You clueless fuck. Go look up the word moniker, dipshit.

[David]

Maybe YOU should reread your own post...
">> Like a box full of 9 Volt CELLS wired in an array. "

Have a nice day.