Cooling suggestions for drive bay in a tower case
brassplyer
top of each other horizontally - and of course baking each other with
their heat output.
Right now the case has a smaller 80mm fan just under this bay blowing
inward and a larger (120mm?) fan blowing out. Also a side case fan
currently blowing inward approximately over and toward the CPU.
I imagine there's air being drawn past the drives from the slotting in
the case in front of them, but would like to enhance cooling of them.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Dave
"brassplyer" <brass...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ded26cb7-a64d-4b9f...@y21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
OK, first, I'm assuming that you have four bays and that all four bays are
filled with exactly four hard drives?
First thought would be, how many empty 5.25" bays do you have? You can get
cheap adapters to allow the installation of a hard drive in a (optical
drive) bay. Or get hot swap trays, even (drawers slide out with hard drive
inside). Most towers have 3-4 optical drive bays. You likely have at least
two being unused. Move two of the hard drives there. Even in an uncooled
"hot swap" bay, those drives will be cooler. Just opening up space between
the other two will help. Just make sure all your cables will reach the
optical drive bays. At worst, you might need to buy a new cable or power
splitter or something. I'll try to post a link below. -Dave
http://www.macmall.com/ttsvr/p/2278826?dpno=349157
http://www.buy.com/prod/startech-com-5-25-tray-less-sata-hot-swap-hard-drive-bay-1-x-3-5-1-3h/q/loc/101/203482774.html
(this is trayless and SATA, but they make IDE versions with slide-out trays)
ohaya
Hi,
If the drives the OP has are SATA, I'd second the trayless SATA rack. I
have one (a Thermaltake Max4), in the top 5.25" space in my case, and
the 750GB drive I have in that is the coolest running drive in the case
(~35C after running all day).
I would mention a problem that I've had with the one I have though.
When I first installed it, everything was fine, but after several months
of use (with the drive not being removed), when I booted my system up
one morning, the Windows boot hung at the screen with the scrolling bar.
It took me awhile to figure things out, but I found that if I popped the
drive out of the trayless rack, the system would boot fine.
At that time, I ended up putting the drive into the case (not in the
rack) for awhile, but then, a couple of weeks ago, I got kind of
curious, so I took a closer look at the rack.
Now, most of these trayless SATA racks have what's called a "NSS" or
"non-scratch SATA" connector. Apparently this is a connector that
clamps onto the SATA connector as the drive is shoved into it.
So, I started doing some experimenting, doing things like trying to
shove the drive in firmer, etc., and, at first, I wasn't very
successful. The system would still hang on boot once in awhile.
Then, I was looking at the door. There's a small curved spring steel
piece that's attached to the inside of the door. The idea is that as
you swing the door shut, that spring steel piece is suppose to exert
some force to push the drive back into the drive.
I also noticed that (in my case) the door was hinged on the right, so
pressure as you closed the door was mostly on the right side.
So, what I did was take a piece of foam rubber (the black/gray kind used
for packing hard drives) and cut a thin small square, then I taped that
to the left front end of the SATA drive. My idea was that having that
there, there'd be more even pressure on the front of the drive as the
door was closed.
I did that about 3 weeks ago, and the system has been booting fine since
then.
That foam piece is getting a little compressed, so I may need to replace
it later, or, I've been thinking of replacing it with a small piece of
that 3M double-sided foam tape.
Anyway, just an FYI. I'm still amazed at how cool that drive runs, even
though the rack doesn't have a fan.
Jim
nos...@nospam.invalid
What brand/model of case is this? Most drive cages can accomodate
a fan bracket in front, which holds one (or sometimes two) 80mm fans.
This is really the only way to effectively cool four drives in such a small
area. Putting more space between the drives (ie. run three instead of
four) will also help.
kony
Depends on how fancy or finshed looking you want it to be.
There are ready made drive caddies with a fan on the bottom
(usually a poor quality fan, too thin and the bearing wears
out in a year or two), a fan in the front (usually very
little airflow due to the size unless spinning at high
enough RPM to be relatively loud), and could also be a low
quality fan unless you replace it with your own which starts
to get expensive at typically 2 fans per slot.
Hard drives in moderate ambient temperatures don't need a
lot of cooling. Especially if it's room temperature air in
a climate controlled room instead of pre-heated by other
components in the system already. Any option with a slower
RPM fan is probably a better option unless you have an
extreme environment you haven't mentioned.
One option seldom mentioned is to use the existing bay
faceplate blanks. Assuming they are plastic (Or if not you
would devise a different fastening method), simply take two
of them, put a bead of plastic cement between the edges
where they meet top to bottom as situated in the case bezel,
and glue them together.
Once the glue has dried, cut out a round hole for an 80mm
fan, leaving enough plastic on the top and bottom for it to
remain structurally sound (need not be a lot, it's only a
small plastic fan). Take some sandpaper and smooth the
rough edges, hold the 80mm x 25mm thick fan up to it to mark
where the screw holes need to go.
Often with typical "PC case fans" they come with wires too
short to reach a motherboard header if they use the small
0.1" pin spaced, 3 pin connector. In that case an extension
cord would be needed, IIRC places like http://www.svc.com
sell them cheaply in the US.
Given a low RPM 80mm x 25mm fan per each pair of drives,
throttling back the RPM even further if you desire, you
achieve a good combination of low noise, large selection of
fans to choose in this size, and minimal restriction to
airflow although I would put a wire fan grill in front of it
just in case anything would come near the blades.
Putting a 25mm thick fan behind these case blank faceplate
panels usually requires a 5.25" to 3.5" drive rail adapter
that has two mounting holes allowing the drive to sit a
little further back in the system than some. The common
folded golden metal colored ones that came with drives for
year or are available for a buck or two are the type I'm
referring to. They aren't always necessary as some cases
have slots for the top bays instead of only round screw
holes so any drive rail could be scooted backwards some, but
I do recommend going with at least a 20mm thick fan for
better balance and airflow per RPM.
Even simplier option is to just take the faceplates off and
either make a bracket or just use magnets to hold a piece of
filter material against the metal case frame, OR drill a
bunch of little holes in the blank plates so the rear
exhaust fans pull air in through these holes, or substitute
some perforated material, something like the foil layer
inside a microwave oven door.
... or just do it the easy way and look at some products
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=577&name=Hard-Drive-Cooling
terryc
> I've got an older tower case with a drive bay for 4 h/d's stacked on top
> of each other horizontally - and of course baking each other with their
> heat output.
Mount them vertical and stick a fan or two on the front.
fooman
> I've got an older tower case with a drive bay for 4 h/d's stacked on
> top of each other horizontally - and of course baking each other with
> their heat output.
>
I'm not sure how you "stack 4 drives on TOP of each other HORIZONTALLY"
;-D Please post photo.
Try turning the case on it's side . . .
Just a thought.
terryc
> I'm not sure how you "stack 4 drives on TOP of each other HORIZONTALLY"
That is how they mount in the tower cases.
kony
wrote:
Horizontally as in... with their longest dimensional plane
(top side/label) parallel to the horizon?
Rarius
> I've got an older tower case with a drive bay for 4 h/d's stacked on
> top of each other horizontally - and of course baking each other with
> their heat output.
My first thought was... Why 4 hard drives? Surely it would be better to
replace these with a one or two 1TB drives.
Rarius
kony
Perhaps, but what if they are 1TB drives, or a RAID array?
I happen to have 6 hard drives in the system I'm typing on.
Why? I don't know. They piled up in there over time, LOL,
and 3 of them don't even have cables plugged in. Damn the
motherboard manufacturers for getting rid of PATA channels,
I could add a PATA PCI card but I don't really need to use
them, so leaving them in the case is as good a place to
store them as any.
Timothy Daniels
If the tower case was not designed specifically for the particular
motherboard/heatsink/CPU, and if you're not overclocking your CPU,
you probably don't need the side fan. What that side fan is doing is
increasing the internal air pressure inside the case (i.e. reducing the suction
at the front of the case), and thus reducing the airflow from front to back.
You may not even need the front fan, and since it is not blowing directly
on the hard drives, it too is reducing the suction. If you have slots directly
in front of the hard drives so that air sucked into the case flows over them,
try blocking both the side and front fan intake holes and disabling those fans.
This will maximize the airflow over the hard drives. Then, just relying on
the large rear fan, test the rig. If the hard drives feel at about body temp,
you've solved the hard drive cooling problem. Monitor the CPU temp
while doing this, though.
*TimDaniels*
terryc
> I imagine there's air being drawn past the drives from the slotting in
> the case in front of them, but would like to enhance cooling of them.
> Any suggestions?
Blanking plates with fans built into them. Available in single or dual.
Or, if you want serious cooling, make up your own front plate with fans.
I'd also draw the air through a filter of sorts.
kony
Take the case front bezel off, there may already be a fan
mount behind it or if there isn't, a hole might be cut out
then if there is an excessive opening around that hole from
the prior inlets, add the blank plate as you mentioned.
Flasherly
I used to mess with that stuff -- let the pros do it. Got an all
aluminum "engineered" LanBoy -- two 120 fans front and back. Then I
saw NewEgg about giving away a top-rated CFM 120 fan, on a special,
which I bought to replace the Antec backplane fan (if included, I
forget).
Everything since has been 180 degrees out of perspective. My computer
flatout got up and told me it's also a vacuum cleaner -- and days of
modifying cases with 60/80mm fans for cooling Athlon XP setups was all
just a joke. And I do mean it really sucks -- always filthy in there.
But it's always cool and lasts a long time (756 core Athlon - 3 or 4
200G Seagates off a Sparkle server-grade PS).
Only thing I suspect these days are DVD units -- between firmware
going obsolete on Asian disk manufacturer ID codes -- never really
learned to tear one down to properly clean the optical lens apparatus
by hand. Oh well, and cat's in the well -- leaving DVD for permanent
storage, anyway, skipping BlueRay, for HDs and docking stations.
Seriously, not considering case efficiency in a build is like hooking
up an 8" speaker to a Fender Bassman.
kony
<Flas...@live.com> wrote:
>On Sep 8, 8:07 pm, brassplyer <brasspl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I've got an older tower case with a drive bay for 4 h/d's stacked on
>> top of each other horizontally - and of course baking each other with
>> their heat output.
>>
>> Right now the case has a smaller 80mm fan just under this bay blowing
>> inward and a larger (120mm?) fan blowing out. Also a side case fan
>> currently blowing inward approximately over and toward the CPU.
>>
>> I imagine there's air being drawn past the drives from the slotting in
>> the case in front of them, but would like to enhance cooling of them.
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks
>
>I used to mess with that stuff -- let the pros do it. Got an all
>aluminum "engineered" LanBoy -- two 120 fans front and back. Then I
>saw NewEgg about giving away a top-rated CFM 120 fan, on a special,
>which I bought to replace the Antec backplane fan (if included, I
>forget).
Problem is, the "pros" design cases as if fan mounts are
line item features, eyecandy, and they are tailored towards
maximum compatibility with unknown system configuration.
Even so, only a poorly engineered case or extremely high
ambient temps would require 120 CFM fans. Otherwise the key
is ensuring adequate heatsinks on the hottest parts and
letting a low RPM PSU and 120mm rear exhaust fan do the air
moving. Generally speaking in a climate controlled room
there should be no need for fans over 1800 RPM unless it's a
dual video card gaming system... even having a half
dozenconsumer grade/7200 RPM hard drives you won't need more
than that.
>
>Everything since has been 180 degrees out of perspective. My computer
>flatout got up and told me it's also a vacuum cleaner -- and days of
>modifying cases with 60/80mm fans for cooling Athlon XP setups was all
>just a joke. And I do mean it really sucks -- always filthy in there.
>But it's always cool and lasts a long time (756 core Athlon - 3 or 4
>200G Seagates off a Sparkle server-grade PS).
It seems like you just picked fans with too high RPM and/or
didn't have adequate intake and exhaust ports. Athlon XP
overclocked past 2.2GHz, single gaming video card (otherwise
typical PC components) is cooled fine in a climate
controlled room with a 2000 RPM PSU and single 80mm rear
exhaust fan. This assumes the CPU is wearing a fairly good
heatsink.
>
>Only thing I suspect these days are DVD units -- between firmware
>going obsolete on Asian disk manufacturer ID codes -- never really
>learned to tear one down to properly clean the optical lens apparatus
>by hand. Oh well, and cat's in the well -- leaving DVD for permanent
>storage, anyway, skipping BlueRay, for HDs and docking stations.
2/3rds of the time cleaning the lens alone won't cut it,
dust flying around scratches up the lens and wear on the
rail sliders makes it's aim imprecise. The other 1/3rd of
the time you can simply drip pure alcohol on the lens in a
stream to flush off dust. Avoid touching the lens with
anything to wipe it if at all possible. Besides, you can't
usually gain access to the rear of the lens (besides
dripping solvent on it) without tearing apart the laser
assembly meaning it's not likely to go back together with
the correct alignment needed.
Flasherly
>
> 2/3rds of the time cleaning the lens alone won't cut it,
> dust flying around scratches up the lens and wear on the
> rail sliders makes it's aim imprecise. The other 1/3rd of
> the time you can simply drip pure alcohol on the lens in a
> stream to flush off dust. Avoid touching the lens with
> anything to wipe it if at all possible. Besides, you can't
> usually gain access to the rear of the lens (besides
> dripping solvent on it) without tearing apart the laser
> assembly meaning it's not likely to go back together with
> the correct alignment needed.
Those are good considerations, and supportive of why I've felt all
thumbs attempting to tear into optics. Should have at least a couple
2-30XX NECs writers for my oldest DVD discs, rest are newer LG.
Hopefully the NECs will serve for their last call to duty -- getting
everything over to HDs.
Usually nose around reviews, looking for cases that are popular,
couple people usually that look like they know what they're talking
about, that and A-#1 well regarded for value. The aluminum Antec
Lanboy was once such, and I've seen it locally for as little as $40
bare from the likes of CompUSA when on sale. I probably paid twice
that. True, grated and drilled $200 cases or gaming setup wouldn't
appeal as much to me as pure function and value. Though I'd think
more of anything with 120mm fan, especially if adjustable. (Not
what's in a little beater case across the room with the cheapest chip
Intel's probably released. Early PGA Celeron D. Does audio/visual
only and I try and purposefully keep it simple as possible.)
I'd rather have the dusty case than deal with temperature. Take it
out in the garage with alcohol, tooth and small-parts brush. 60gal
Cambell Hausfeld compressor to finish it off. Like new.
Theoretically, though all it's ever got was a quick run over with a
vacuum wand, as much behind the unit and what's blowing out the back.
Things for lazy people, like me and fun the living room.
Good post, kony - good points. Just been there, back with the Athlons
and "custom cooled" 12-bay Towers of Power -- long enough to where
you'd have to chisel these 120mm fans out from my cold, dead hands. :)