slow or no bootup

[extremerecluse]

Hello,

First post. Problem; while using OS 7 and a very simple system I put
together 4 years ago, I have had really slow bootup or none. I thought it
was the HD so I got another one; Same Memory and speed. I even formatted
it to insure a clean install. Got the same problem. It gets hung during
IDE search. When it does boot where I can use it, it freezes all the time.
Hardware at fault could not be the HD. Maybe video card or motherboard. I
wish windows could diagnose faulty hardware. It does tell me that hardware
is failing or about to. I hate to dump money into it by trial and error.
You think I should just gut it and start from scratch? If I knew the
problem, I would fix it so easily. It is 4 years old. Maybe it has served
it usefulness? Help please!!!

Mark
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[Paul]

extremerecluse wrote:
> Hello,
>
> First post. Problem; while using OS 7 and a very simple system I put
> together 4 years ago, I have had really slow bootup or none. I thought it
> was the HD so I got another one; Same Memory and speed. I even formatted
> it to insure a clean install. Got the same problem. It gets hung during
> IDE search. When it does boot where I can use it, it freezes all the time.
> Hardware at fault could not be the HD. Maybe video card or motherboard. I
> wish windows could diagnose faulty hardware. It does tell me that hardware
> is failing or about to. I hate to dump money into it by trial and error.
> You think I should just gut it and start from scratch? If I knew the
> problem, I would fix it so easily. It is 4 years old. Maybe it has served
> it usefulness? Help please!!!
>
> Mark

Your post is completely devoid of details about the
computer make and model, motherboard make and model,
processor type, disk type and interface (i.e. "WDC1004"
on SATA connector). If it is an HP or Dell, I
might ask you different questions than if you built
the computer yourself.

Your first step should be to Google the computer details,
and see if other people suffer your complaint. If you
built the computer yourself, you'd Google the motherboard
model number. Whereas if you bought an Acer or a Gateway,
you'd Google the model details of Acer or Gateway.

At the same time, you can post back here with a more detailed
list of hardware.

There's no guarantee, when you give a hardware list, that
any extra ideas will come to mind, but you never know.

I use a Linux LiveCD sometimes, as an alternate boot media,
and there can be text messages put on the screen during
the booting process. If you get lucky with that, that
may hint as to what is wrong. Once Linux is up and running
from the disc, you open the Terminal application and
enter the command "dmesg" to see the text again. The buffer
used by that command, is not infinite, and given enough
time and error messages, the first bits of it might get
flushed. But still, it's better than what Windows will
tell you during startup.

Some prebuilt computers (like HP or Dell), they may come
with an actual hardware diagnostic, and it can be used to
identify simple hardware faults. Also, third-party
applications exist, which claim to do the same thing,
but some of those are mostly "fluff" (i.e. they test
things not likely to fail, so you don't get value from
the tests). The nicest tests I ever saw, were on a Sun Unix
computer, which while it didn't have the nicest interface,
at least you can tell the people who wrote the tests,
wrote them to test hardware, and not to make an
easy buck off a sucker. That software was bundled
with the machine, and is basically machine specific
(you couldn't use it on a PC).

Paul

[extremerecluse]

extremerecluse had written this in response to
http://www.talkcomputer.com/homebuilt/Re-slow-or-no-bootup-23133-.htm :

I have the following installed:

Case: Antec (7 fans)
Motherboard: EVGA 780I SLI
Processor: 2.3 Intel Duo Core
Power Supply: Coolmax modular 300Watts
Video Card: PNY G-Gorce 8800 GT
Sound Card: Audigy Sound Blaster
Memory: Nvidia SLI PC2 6400 (2 sticks)
Hard Drive: Caviar Blue, 500GB 16MB Cache, 7200 RPM
Media Player: LITE ON, R/RW/DVD/CD


I really have a string desire to blow it up and start all over

[Paul]

This power supply (CA-300) perhaps ?

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-159-041-S03?$S640W$

What is the model number printed on the label of the power supply ?

I need to track down the power rating on the rails.

It's a wonder it doesn't shut down while you're gaming.

I don't see a power mechanism to cause a "slow boot", so my
noticing the power supply has nothing to do with the original
problem. It's just the first thing I noticed.

Paul

[Paul]

If it's this motherboard...

"User Guide EVGA force 780i SLI FTW Motherboard"
http://www.evga.com/support/manuals/files/132-YW-E178.pdf

there is a two digit hex display. Now, in theory, that won't
help us either. At the point the disk is being read and boot
is proceeding, the display should have stopped updating. The
last hex code on there should indicate "Now booting...".

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/imageview.php?image=8546

(PDF page 15, item #30 is the hex display)

(PDF page 83 shows "FF Boot", so during the slow boot phase,
the display stops updating and stays parked at 0xFF.)

The BIOS settings include Spread Spectrum for the PCI Express
and for the SATA (separate settings). This suggests to me
that the SATA and PCI Express clocks are generated independently.
So overclocking the PCI Express, in theory, should not affect
SATA. On some motherboards, the SATA would stop working, because
the SATA clock was synced to the PCI Express clock. And when
you sped up the PCI Express clock, the SATA couldn't handle the
higher speed it was seeing.

I don't really have a good candidate theory as to why it's slow.
You can run a disk diagnostic when the system is running, and
see if that detects a problem. Or, use a benchmark like HDTune
(free version 2.55), and see if any performance problems are
evident. The graph should be a "curve" for a hard drive, with
say 60MB/sec near the beginning of the disk, and about 40MB/sec
hear the end. Newer generation disks might be 125MB/sec at
beginning and 65MB/sec at the end. The very fastest disk you're
likely to see (hard drive), is 180MB/sec at the beginning. Those
aren't too common.

http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

The example gives the basic idea of a hard drive curve.
Except this one is a little bit screwed up near the start.
In any case, it's doing pretty good, as it's in the 125MB/sec
range best case.

http://www.hdtune.com/images/screenshot.png

This example is still "healthy", but the flat
part at the beginning implies a bottle-necked transfer.
Something in the hardware path, is limiting the performance,
and it's not the cable. (The cable would cause a slightly
higher line to be drawn.)

http://nwgat.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/hdtune_benchmark_samsung_hd103sj_sil3132.png

Paul

[Pete]

On 14/11/2012 01:37, extremerecluse wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> First post. Problem; while using OS 7 and a very simple system I put
> together 4 years ago, I have had really slow bootup or none. I thought it
> was the HD so I got another one; Same Memory and speed. I even formatted
> it to insure a clean install. Got the same problem. It gets hung during
> IDE search. When it does boot where I can use it, it freezes all the time.
> Hardware at fault could not be the HD. Maybe video card or motherboard. I
> wish windows could diagnose faulty hardware. It does tell me that hardware
> is failing or about to. I hate to dump money into it by trial and error.
> You think I should just gut it and start from scratch? If I knew the
> problem, I would fix it so easily. It is 4 years old. Maybe it has served
> it usefulness? Help please!!!
>
> Mark
> -------------------------------------
> | |
> | _ |
> _________|__( )__|_________
> x/ _| |( . )| |_ x
> |_| ---*|_|
>
>
>

At four years old it may be as costly to replace hardware as to start
from scratch and build something modern. If you are building it yourself
you can salvage the chassis, perhaps the PSU also if it has SATA power
terminals and also a 24-pin power connector assuming you want to run an
additional GFX card.

Pete

[extremerecluse]

extremerecluse had written this in response to

http://www.talkcomputer.com/homebuilt/Re-slow-or-no-bootup-23135-.htm :

Paul wrote:

> extremerecluse wrote:
>> extremerecluse had written this in response to
>>
>> http://www.talkcomputer.com/homebuilt/Re-slow-or-no-bootup-23133-.htm :
>>
>> Paul wrote:
>>
>>> extremerecluse wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> First post. Problem; while using OS 7 and a very simple
>>>> system

>>>> put
>>>> together 4 years ago, I have had really slow bootup or
>>>> none. I
>>>> thought it
>>>> was the HD so I got another one; Same Memory and speed. I
>>>> even

I don't have the time or spare good parts sitting around to swap out like
most computer shops. I am just going to let a shop handle the diagnostics
on this. I am sure it is something so simple. If they tell me I need to
dump $500 into it, then I will just start over and gut it.

Mark

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:14:43 +0000, extremerecluse
<mcfallows_at_...@foo.com> wrote:

>-------------------------------------
> | |
> | _ |
> _________|__( )__|_________
> x/ _| |( . )| |_ x
> |_| ---*|_|
>

Is this a "sight picture"?