Did my PSU just die?
Ant
I came home to my already powered on old Linux computer desktop (leave
it mostly 24/7). I woke it up to log in from its xmatrix screen saver
and sleep. I ran a program (VirtualBox) and it hard locked up on me.
No lights on my old PS/2 keyboard. No PS/2 mouse cursor movements. I
could open and close my CD and DVD drives. I tried to hit case's reset
button. Nothing. I held down its power button for over five seconds.
Nothing. Tried it again, it finally powered off. I turned it on and
nothing. No beeps or anything. I did see the case's green power light
blinking like a HDD which was odd. No fans spin, no lights inside (don't
remember if it had any lights, but I assume it did like on the
motherboard?). I looked inside, and didn't see anything odd like burned
outs or anything. Just lots of dusts (cleaned this case almost a year
ago!!). I don't have a spare PSU right now to try it and it's already
too late to get one. I did try another power AC cable for PSU, but that
didn't make any differences.
What do you think of the symptoms? PSU-related death? I did smell
something burning a few weeks ago, but I never figured out where it came
from. Maybe this is related and a sign? If it is the PSU, then I only
had this Fortron FSP650-80GLC PSU (650 watts) since 5/14/2007 according
to my computer history
(http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/toys.html).
http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/computers.txt shows my
detailed system setup. It's the "Secondary/Backup Computer".
Thank you in advance. :)
--
"News Headline: Ants Take A Long Time To Cook In Microwave" --unknown
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANT...@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
Ant
takes about 2-3 seconds to turn off/go away after switching the PSU off.
On 12/1/2009 9:39 PM PT, Ant typed:
"Antacid: What ants use to get high." --unknown
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANT...@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
--
"Whenever I see an old lady slip and fall on a wet sidewalk, my first
instinct is to laugh. But then I think, what if I was an ant, and she
fell on me. Then it wouldn't seem quite so funny." --Saturday Night Live
FAQ: Deep Thoughts
Paul
> I also noticed when the green power light blink/flicker like crazy, it
> takes about 2-3 seconds to turn off/go away after switching the PSU off.
It takes time for the PSU to drain, once the mains switch on the back
cuts off the power flow. So that part would be normal. The LED on
my system, which connects to +5VSB, continues to run for up to 30 seconds,
before it finally goes out. It lasts a lot longer than your 2-3 seconds.
The power LED blinking means you could have a problem with +5VSB on the
supply. The power LED can also be tied into standby logic, but then
the blinking pattern would be very regular (like once or twice a second).
You can probably tell the difference between those two cases, especially
if you've seen the normal S3 standby pattern before.
It really helps, if you have a LED you know for sure is tied into
+5VSB, to use that as a replacement for a multimeter check. For
example, on all my Asus motherboards, there is a single green LED
on the board which is tied directly to +5VSB (through a current
limiting resistor). If that LED blinks, then you know your
power supply is shot. The LED is placed there by Asus,
as a warning it is unsafe to change out hardware. If the LED
is off, it means there should be no remaining power on the chassis
to worry about. It would then be safe to pull the RAM or video etc.
So that LED normally has only two states, on long term or off long term,
and blinking on that one after you've just turned on the switch
on the power supply, is definitely a fault indication.
If you're using another LED, it may have additional logic tied to
it, so the results may be a bit more ambiguous. Some systems
blink the front panel power LED, to indicate a system is in standby. As
long as you're convinced the blink you see is not a "standby" blink,
then you might conclude you're looking at a reliable indication
of a failed +5VSB.
+5VSB is weak and has a low current limit value on it. Anything
which is overloading +5VSB could also be at fault. Try stripping
the junk off the computer first, and do your debugging with
less hardware present.
Actually, I don't believe in switching on a power supply
again, once I've lost faith in it. I wait until I can find
a spare, and test with that, and see what happens. There
have been cases, where the very next time you switch on the
supply, it blows everything up. If you have the skills,
and the patience to take note of where every wire goes
on that supply, you can swap in another one and see how
it goes. That may be slightly preferable to taking
a chance on the supply you have now. Maybe there isn't anything
wrong with it, but time will tell.
You could count your "smelling of smoke" as a second symptom.
There was one guy on here, who when his computer wouldn't start,
he "turned it on and off rapidly about 50 times". Another example
of what not to do. Taking out your frustration on the power switch,
only leads to "a new computer" :-)
If you buy another supply, and that isn't the problem, you can
always use the new supply in some future project. If you have
more than one computer, it won't be long before some other
power supply fails.
If you have someone you trust to test components, let them
test the existing supply. I recommend having a test load
connected to the supply, then jumper PS_ON# to COM to turn
it on. The test load should not be a motherboard you value
for example. I've heard of people taking their gear to
a friend's place for testing and ruining the friend's computer,
which isn't a very nice thing to do. Find someone who knows the
risks, and knows how to test. I have my own load box, so if a
PSU blows, I don't lose anything. The load box uses
cheap power resistors.
http://www.dansdata.com/images/morecoolers/resistor300.jpg
While you can buy a "PSU tester" dongle for an ATX
supply, I don't consider it a very good test. If
the PSU is really bad, it'll probably catch it. If
the supply is just a little flaky, it may say everything
is OK.
Paul
Ant
>> I also noticed when the green power light blink/flicker like crazy, it
>> takes about 2-3 seconds to turn off/go away after switching the PSU off.
>
> It takes time for the PSU to drain, once the mains switch on the back
> cuts off the power flow. So that part would be normal. The LED on
> my system, which connects to +5VSB, continues to run for up to 30 seconds,
> before it finally goes out. It lasts a lot longer than your 2-3 seconds.
>
> The power LED blinking means you could have a problem with +5VSB on the
> supply. The power LED can also be tied into standby logic, but then
> the blinking pattern would be very regular (like once or twice a second).
> You can probably tell the difference between those two cases, especially
> if you've seen the normal S3 standby pattern before.
>
> It really helps, if you have a LED you know for sure is tied into
> +5VSB, to use that as a replacement for a multimeter check. For
> example, on all my Asus motherboards, there is a single green LED
> on the board which is tied directly to +5VSB (through a current
> limiting resistor). If that LED blinks, then you know your
> power supply is shot. The LED is placed there by Asus,
> as a warning it is unsafe to change out hardware. If the LED
> is off, it means there should be no remaining power on the chassis
> to worry about. It would then be safe to pull the RAM or video etc.
> So that LED normally has only two states, on long term or off long term,
> and blinking on that one after you've just turned on the switch
> on the power supply, is definitely a fault indication.
I don't know the voltage that well. Does that +5VSB mean a problem with
the PSU? So PSU is the culprit?
With the PSU switch on and Enlight 7237-ATX mid-tower case's green power
light blinking, I did not see any lights on my old MSI K8N NEO4-F
(MS-7125; v1.0) motherboard:
http://www.msi.com/uploads/prod_b615057a537503d725fe053b77f206aa.jpg for
two photographs/photos. and
http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=proddesc&maincat_no=1&prod_no=249 ...
--
"Look not to the windmill's turning while the ant still burrows." --unknown
Paul
The power supply is split in two sections.
AC --- rectifiers --- DC, big cap --+-- DC-DC conversion ------ +3.3,+5,+12,-12
|
+-- always_on_conversion --- +5VSB (standby voltage)
The +5VSB powers the motherboard during standby suspend to RAM.
The motherboard may draw one ampere during that time, some of
which powers the RAM refresh, and some for "wake-able" chips.
Even your USB coffee heater could be drawing from that rail
(which is why I suggested removing hardware from the
computer and checking for a symptom change).
+5VSB also powers supervision functions. It powers the logic
that listens for the front panel power or reset buttons. To
turn the power supply on (via the soft power control), the
motherboard logic needs a source of power, and +5VSB provides
that power.
On the power supply itself, the +5VSB circuit may have another voltage
which is used for supervision of the operation of the power supply.
So if that part of the supply winks out, the main part
of the supply may also.
Power supplies have available 2 to 3 amps on +5VSB. There is usually
current limiting (it could be a thermal limiter). The supply doesn't
have any active cooling when providing +5VSB (no fans running). If
an overload is presented, +5VSB protects itself by turning off.
Now, with that short background, we go back to your flashing LED.
The +5VSB can go on and off if there is a circuit malfunction.
The +5VSB could have become weak for some reason. Maybe
it is even overheating internally for some reason. In any case,
the slow oscillation indicates some kind of problem there.
Could the motherboard be causing it ? It might. If you had a
clamp on DC ammeter, you could measure the current flow in
the main power supply cable, and get a quick snapshot of
the condition of things. When you don't have a clamp on
ammeter and a multimeter to check voltage, it means
you're going to do a swap test a lot sooner. Without
some kind of measurement capability, swapping is about
all you can do.
The power supply is one of the most frequent sources of
trouble, which is why it is suggested to swap it with
little evidence. The smell of smoke was probably a hint.
It could be the power supply has had a capacitor failure.
You'd want to find reviews for the supply to see if
that is the case. Several models of Antec supplies
have had problems like that.
It is too bad there are no reviews here, to comment
on whether there have been failures or not. I rely
on the reviews on this site, as an indication of
design flaws. Although the Antec problems would have
shown up, after the product was no longer for sale.
The caps on my Antec failed, even though the supply
was used very little. Basically, they leaked while
in storage. It doesn't even take stress, to make
"capacitor plague" caps fail - they'll do it all
by themselves.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103014
Paul
Ant
[snipped]
Ah, thanks. Funny, I have had bad luck(?) with desktop PC PSUs. I have
had Antec, Enlight, SeaSonic (only lasted like six months), and generic.
They all were supposed to be good and last a long time, but not under my
usages. I don't even stress my Linux box like gaming and stuff. It's
just a workstation for mostly surfing, downloading, etc. Nothing fancy!
I do remember my Dell Optiplex GX280 (yeah, the defected model)'s PSU
went bust too after the company moved to another building and I rarely
turned off that machine.
I know my room can get crazy hot (almost 90F degrees), power hiccups [no
actual outages] (can hear my UPS sometimes beep like when I turn on a
20" 1996 CRT TV and my dad turns on his old Dell Optiplex GX260 PC in
his room). In fact, I did have a two minutes power outage over the
weekend, but my UPS saved my computers. I don't think that would make my
PSU go bust, but then what do I know? ;)
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103014
Wow, absolutely no reviews? Sad. I think I will avoid FSP this time.
--
"I like ants, in chocolate. Crunch, hummmm." --unknown
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): aqfl<dot>net (use .)
Bob H
Hi, my PSU died at the weekend. It was a Tagan 600 watt which I had for
just under 12 months. Luckily it has a 3 year warranty, so it went back
to Tagan via the people I bought it from.
Yes, I leave my PC on all the time, just switch off the monitor when not
being used. After using it on Friday evening, came to it Saturday
morning, switched the monitor back on , but nothing, no desktop. Each
time I pressed keys on the keyboard the power led was flickering on/off
and there was a clicking noise. Luckily I had a spare PSU and when I
fitted that my system was up and running again.
I also haven't had much luck with PSU's over the years. I had a Hyper
365 watt about 3 years ago and it failed within 12 months. I then had a
Enermax 450 watt, but that also failed within 12 months, so I thought
Tagan would be good for more than that but I was wrong.
The one I'm using at the moment is an OCZ, but IU'll get another before
12 months is up on it!
Don Phillipson
news:hf5nvc$mht$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> The power supply is one of the most frequent sources of
> trouble, which is why it is suggested to swap it with
> little evidence. The smell of smoke was probably a hint.
A practical consider is that PC repair stores (as distinct
from big box stores) will usually test your PSU without
charge and (if it tests defective) instal a new one without any
labour charge. The whole process takes less than 10 min.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
kony
I'm all for supporting local PC shops, but ultimately you
can easily end up paying twice as much for the same thing
given continual deals on the internet to contrast with, and
sometimes all they stock in median wattage unit is overrated
generics.
kony
wrote:
>Ah, thanks. Funny, I have had bad luck(?) with desktop PC PSUs. I have
>had Antec, Enlight, SeaSonic (only lasted like six months), and generic.
>They all were supposed to be good and last a long time, but not under my
>usages. I don't even stress my Linux box like gaming and stuff. It's
>just a workstation for mostly surfing, downloading, etc. Nothing fancy!
>I do remember my Dell Optiplex GX280 (yeah, the defected model)'s PSU
>went bust too after the company moved to another building and I rarely
>turned off that machine.
>
>I know my room can get crazy hot (almost 90F degrees), power hiccups [no
>actual outages] (can hear my UPS sometimes beep like when I turn on a
>20" 1996 CRT TV and my dad turns on his old Dell Optiplex GX260 PC in
>his room). In fact, I did have a two minutes power outage over the
>weekend, but my UPS saved my computers. I don't think that would make my
>PSU go bust, but then what do I know? ;)
>
>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103014
>
>Wow, absolutely no reviews? Sad. I think I will avoid FSP this time.
Previously you wrote there was a lot of dust buildup.
Combine that with running at 90F and power surges, plus the
tendency of some PSU manufacturers to use sub-optimal
quality capacitors, and it's easily understandable why you
see short service life from PSUs.
There's probably nothing especially wrong with the above
linked FSP PSU but even if a PSU is sitting behind a surge
protector/UPS, remember that for it to switch on it has to
detect an already-present problem with the power. High
intensity surges don't tend to have long duration, it only
takes a few ms if that to fry transistors and the high temps
will wear out anything.
I would take one of the failed PSU and autopsy it, perhaps
it has failed capacitors and by installing very high quality
capacitors you can end up with something more suited to the
high temp environment than even buying a new reasonably
priced PSU. You might also invest in a quality surge
protector with a connected equipment warranty so if you can
tie a failure to a surge you have some hope of
recompensation towards replacement parts.
Ultimately there are other options as well. With the high
temperatures, make sure you have a reasonable intake fan on
the case so the PSU isn't fighting so much negative case
pressurization, and consider swapping out the original PSU
fan for one with higher RPM, and dual ball bearings for
longer life at elevated temps. Of course an air conditioner
would make the user happier as well as the system...
Ant
> Hi, my PSU died at the weekend. It was a Tagan 600 watt which I had for
> just under 12 months. Luckily it has a 3 year warranty, so it went back
> to Tagan via the people I bought it from.
I never heard of them. Did Tagan say anything about your dead PSU? IIRC,
my FSP PSU is only a year. :(
> Yes, I leave my PC on all the time, just switch off the monitor when not
> being used. After using it on Friday evening, came to it Saturday
> morning, switched the monitor back on , but nothing, no desktop. Each
> time I pressed keys on the keyboard the power led was flickering on/off
> and there was a clicking noise. Luckily I had a spare PSU and when I
> fitted that my system was up and running again.
Clicking noises? I heard nothing on mine. Where was the noise coming from?
> I also haven't had much luck with PSU's over the years. I had a Hyper
> 365 watt about 3 years ago and it failed within 12 months. I then had a
> Enermax 450 watt, but that also failed within 12 months, so I thought
> Tagan would be good for more than that but I was wrong.
> The one I'm using at the moment is an OCZ, but IU'll get another before
> 12 months is up on it!
Hmm, seems PSUs aren't doing so well. Who is the best these days even if
we have to pay a little more.
--
"I used to own an ant farm but had to give it up. I couldn't find
tractors small enough to fit it." --Steven Wright
Ant
Doesn't my APC Back-UPS XS BX1500 act like a surger protector? So far,
it is holding. I have had it since 9/25/2005 according to
http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/toys.html ... But yeah dust
and heat are the big ones since I live in Los Angeles area. :(
> Ultimately there are other options as well. With the high
> temperatures, make sure you have a reasonable intake fan on
> the case so the PSU isn't fighting so much negative case
> pressurization, and consider swapping out the original PSU
> fan for one with higher RPM, and dual ball bearings for
> longer life at elevated temps. Of course an air conditioner
> would make the user happier as well as the system...
Yeah, central AC doesn't work so well since I am upstair (dang heat
rises). Also, I forgot to mention I do use the underclock feature on my
computers to keep cooler and use less power when not idled or not using
much CPU.
FYI, when my computer went down it was nice and cool in my room (68ish F
degrees).
--
"When the ant grows wings it is about to die." --Arabic
Don Phillipson
news:pcvdh5pd4a8p1u9qd...@4ax.com...
> >A practical consideration is that PC repair stores (as distinct
> >from big box stores) will usually test your PSU without
> >charge and (if it tests defective) instal a new one without any
> >labour charge. The whole process takes less than 10 min.
>
> I'm all for supporting local PC shops, but ultimately you
> can easily end up paying twice as much for the same thing
> given continual deals on the internet to contrast with, and
> sometimes all they stock in median wattage unit is overrated
> generics.
It all depends where the knowledge can be found -- in the
user's head or behind the counter. This string began with a
user seeking advice because he lacked the knowledge to
diagnose what (others thought) was most probably a failing PSU.
Kony is of course right that Internet purchases are usually
cheaper than store prices for the same item. The difference
is that users who lack knowledge to specify their purchase
can get their questions answered quicker over the counter
than via Internet, i.e. can get more knowledge. We all
knew beforehand that timely knowledge is worth money.
Dave C.
There is nobody working in a store that sells computer power supplies
who is qualified to test a PSU, or offer advice about a PSU. If they
were qualified to give such advice or test a PSU, they would not be
working in a retail store. So your best bet is to use the Internet for
advice AND purchases. -Dave
GlowingBlueMist
With your UPS triggering when electrical devices are turned on in various
rooms of your house I wonder if the UPS has had it's input sensitivity
adjusted to match the average voltage at your location?
A UPS triggering too often might put a strain on the power supplies,
especially if they are already running on substandard (low) voltage and
suddenly seeing a higher voltage from the UPS when it kicks in.
Check your outlet voltage with a good meter and see what your outlet has in
coming out of it and compare that to what you get when the UPS is operating,
as in pull the power plug. I believe your UPS has three possible
sensitivity ranges that you can pick from, 78-142, 88-139, or 88-136. You
need to confirm the ranges available in your user manual in case the manual
I just peeked at is different than yours. Choosing the range that has your
actual (outlet) voltage in the middle of it's range may help stabilize
things. If your outlet voltage is at the low range of your power supply
input you may need to up the current rating of the power supply to
compensate for the lower voltage.
Many people never realize their UPS is set for the wrong sensitivity range
with regards to their actual input voltage and just assume it is triggering
due to "real" power problems. Voltages around the USA do vary more than
most people realize. In the same city you can have one house with 85 volts
and another one a couple of houses away with 122 volts being "their"
standard voltage if they are attached to a different power company
transformer.
Ant
> With your UPS triggering when electrical devices are turned on in various
> rooms of your house I wonder if the UPS has had it's input sensitivity
> adjusted to match the average voltage at your location?
>
> A UPS triggering too often might put a strain on the power supplies,
> especially if they are already running on substandard (low) voltage and
> suddenly seeing a higher voltage from the UPS when it kicks in.
>
> Check your outlet voltage with a good meter and see what your outlet has in
> coming out of it and compare that to what you get when the UPS is operating,
> as in pull the power plug. I believe your UPS has three possible
> sensitivity ranges that you can pick from, 78-142, 88-139, or 88-136. You
> need to confirm the ranges available in your user manual in case the manual
> I just peeked at is different than yours. Choosing the range that has your
> actual (outlet) voltage in the middle of it's range may help stabilize
> things. If your outlet voltage is at the low range of your power supply
> input you may need to up the current rating of the power supply to
> compensate for the lower voltage.
>
> Many people never realize their UPS is set for the wrong sensitivity range
> with regards to their actual input voltage and just assume it is triggering
> due to "real" power problems. Voltages around the USA do vary more than
> most people realize. In the same city you can have one house with 85 volts
> and another one a couple of houses away with 122 volts being "their"
> standard voltage if they are attached to a different power company
> transformer.
Interesting. I know I do use Southern California Edison (SCE),
underground powerlines in this neighborhood, the house was built in the
late 70s/early 80s. I never configured the UPS' so I always used the
defaults. I thought it was smart and automatic to detect changes like
sensitive ranges. I haven't had problems with it since 2005 and does
beep when turning on my old CRT TV or dad turning on his old Dell
Optiplex PC. I will have to share my UPS' statistics and event logs
after I get my Linux box up (assuming it didn't kill my HDDs). I
remember the power hiccups are like a second long. Very short.
As for a power meter, what's a good one for cheap?
--
"What is this? A center for ants?!" "...What?" "How can we be expected
to teach children to learn how read, if they can't even fit inside the
building?" "Derek, it's just a--" "I don't want to hear your excuses!
The center has to be at least... three times bigger than this!" "...He's
absolutely right!" --Zoolander movie
GlowingBlueMist
Radio Shack is still in business in most places. Drop in for a visit and
have them plug a couple of them into a wall outlet and compare them. Then
grab the cheapest one that reads the same as their expensive one ;) I have
used little $7. units as well as expensive ones. With digital meters the
more expensive usually have a faster sampling rate for better accuracy but a
plain old needle swinging one will work fine for wall outlets if set for the
correct range. Myself I use an digital Fluke meter that I inherited from my
old job as a field maintenance technician.
When looking into a possible wall outlet problem I always refer people to
one of those little three prong outlet testers. The kind that have three
lights or even LED's now a days. You can pick them up for around $7.00 at
most home centers like Lowes or Home Depot. Here is a link to a basic one
at ACE Hardware stores:
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3099774&CAWELAID=166610897
This kind of tester is great when verifying that an outlet is wired
correctly or that a previously good outlet has not developed a loose
connection or a bad ground. Our local electrical inspectors would walk
around a building and plug one into every outlet they could locate. It's
surprising how many times they would find an outlet or extension cord with a
bad ground or had other wiring problems. Spending a little more will get
you one that has a little test button that will also check GFCI outlets that
are used in most bathrooms, kitchens, and outside outlets in the more modern
homes. I think everyone should have a tester of this type in their toolbox,
especially if you are a do-it-yourself kind of person.
Bob H
> On 12/2/2009 11:58 AM PT, Bob H typed:
>
>> Hi, my PSU died at the weekend. It was a Tagan 600 watt which I had for
>> just under 12 months. Luckily it has a 3 year warranty, so it went back
>> to Tagan via the people I bought it from.
>
> I never heard of them. Did Tagan say anything about your dead PSU? IIRC,
> my FSP PSU is only a year. :(
No not yet, not heard anything back
>
>
>> Yes, I leave my PC on all the time, just switch off the monitor when not
>> being used. After using it on Friday evening, came to it Saturday
>> morning, switched the monitor back on , but nothing, no desktop. Each
>> time I pressed keys on the keyboard the power led was flickering on/off
>> and there was a clicking noise. Luckily I had a spare PSU and when I
>> fitted that my system was up and running again.
>
> Clicking noises? I heard nothing on mine. Where was the noise coming from?
Somewhere inside the PC towere case,couldn't pinpoint it at the time.
>
>
>> I also haven't had much luck with PSU's over the years. I had a Hyper
>> 365 watt about 3 years ago and it failed within 12 months. I then had a
>> Enermax 450 watt, but that also failed within 12 months, so I thought
>> Tagan would be good for more than that but I was wrong.
>> The one I'm using at the moment is an OCZ, but IU'll get another before
>> 12 months is up on it!
>
> Hmm, seems PSUs aren't doing so well. Who is the best these days even if
> we have to pay a little more.
You tell me!
Dave C.
> > Hmm, seems PSUs aren't doing so well. Who is the best these days
> > even if we have to pay a little more.
>
> You tell me!
BFG or Corsair, either above 600W
kony
True, but if you ask questions where they're profiting from
sale of parts, they may end up promoting a profit leader,
something higher capacity than needed, or a generic that
won't last very long.
Seldom does an employee state don't buy our stuff it's
junk... but it "might" be junk.
I doubt there are many questions that need asked or answered
at this point. The OP, potentially being subject to
undervoltage conditions should get an active PFC PSU due to
it's wider input voltage range tolerance, something with a
large margin in capacity so the heat from running in the
warm environment isn't as much of an issue, something with a
relatively higher than average fan RPM.
Unfortunately the issue of whether there are power surges
coming in is still a factor. If that is the case a surge
protector used since 2005 may easily have sacrificed itself
long ago.
kony
wrote:
>Doesn't my APC Back-UPS XS BX1500 act like a surger protector? So far,
>it is holding. I have had it since 9/25/2005 according to
>http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/toys.html ... But yeah dust
>and heat are the big ones since I live in Los Angeles area. :(
>
I'm sure it has some components meant to deal with surges,
but how effective they are and whether they still function
after potential subjection to multiple surges is another
matter.
Ultimately the only way to be sure what the cause is for
these failed PSU is to do an autopsy on them.
>Yeah, central AC doesn't work so well since I am upstair (dang heat
>rises). Also, I forgot to mention I do use the underclock feature on my
>computers to keep cooler and use less power when not idled or not using
>much CPU.
>
>FYI, when my computer went down it was nice and cool in my room (68ish F
>degrees).
Running in high ambient temps has a cumulative effect on
some parts, they wear out more rapidly and then it doesn't
necessarily need to be hot anymore for their lifespan to be
used up, though on the other hand extremes of temperature
can also instantaneously let the magic smoke out, especially
with shorted switching transistors in the PSU.
Generally with this latter type of failure the PSU won't
stay running at all regardless of whether the system POSTs
and boots. If it were capacitors on the other hand, often
the system becomes instable or won't post but you still (In
the beginning at least) see some signs of life like LEDs
lit, fans spinning. Possibly something as simple as a
visual examination of the interior of a failed PSU could
find parts that failed. Not always, but if you see one
that's a pretty clear indicator leading to determination of
cause.
kony
wrote:
>Yeah, central AC doesn't work so well since I am upstair (dang heat
>rises). Also, I forgot to mention I do use the underclock feature on my
>computers to keep cooler and use less power when not idled or not using
>much CPU.
>
>FYI, when my computer went down it was nice and cool in my room (68ish F
>degrees).
You might have an HVAC company check the freon level in the
A/C, if it's low it could be time to replace it due to
pinhole leaks.
You can get duct fans that fit inline on the duct so more
air is sucked and pushed through that duct, as well as
closing register vents some in the lower levels of the home
to better balance temperatures in the furthest rooms. It'll
make the A/C run longer, higher electric bill, but
ultimately the purpose of A/C is lost if it doesn't at least
run long enough to keep temps low enough where needed.
A supplimental window A/C unit is another option, as well as
situating the computer near the A/C register so the cool air
reaches it, gets circulated through before being warmed as
much by the rest of the air in the room.
Ant
That's interesting. Those are new brands for PSUs for me. Wasn't OCZ to
be good or something based a few years ago? How are SeaSonic, Antec, and
Enlight doing for PSUs these days? I was going to look at my PSU issue
tonight, but I didn't have time and really tired. I will try again
tomorrow night or this weekend. Darn work! :(
--
"What is this? A center for ants?!" "...What?" "How can we be expected
to teach children to learn how read, if they can't even fit inside the
building?" "Derek, it's just a--" "I don't want to hear your excuses!
The center has to be at least... three times bigger than this!" "...He's
absolutely right!" --Zoolander movie
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Ant
> Ultimately the only way to be sure what the cause is for
> these failed PSU is to do an autopsy on them.
I plan to do that when I know it is a failed PSU when a new one works.
Hopefully, we will find out tomorrow night or this weekend. :) Might as
well take apart the possible dead PSU since it can't be RMA'ed. FSP
wanted to RMA charge for $10.50 for this model.
> Running in high ambient temps has a cumulative effect on
> some parts, they wear out more rapidly and then it doesn't
> necessarily need to be hot anymore for their lifespan to be
> used up, though on the other hand extremes of temperature
> can also instantaneously let the magic smoke out, especially
> with shorted switching transistors in the PSU.
> Generally with this latter type of failure the PSU won't
> stay running at all regardless of whether the system POSTs
> and boots. If it were capacitors on the other hand, often
> the system becomes instable or won't post but you still (In
> the beginning at least) see some signs of life like LEDs
> lit, fans spinning. Possibly something as simple as a
Heh, I only had the green Enlight case power light flicker/blinks. No
other lights, movements (e.g., fan spinnings), noises, etc. though. It
was eerie to hear how quiet my room was. :D
> visual examination of the interior of a failed PSU could
> find parts that failed. Not always, but if you see one
> that's a pretty clear indicator leading to determination of
> cause.
So from my symptoms, it sounded like a dead PSU so far. I will find out
the inside of PSU once I know another PSU works on this old computer. I
didn't see anything odd without opening it and peeking in my case (just
dusty and my friend and I cleaned this up almost a year ago).
--
"What is this? A center for ants?!" "...What?" "How can we be expected
to teach children to learn how read, if they can't even fit inside the
building?" "Derek, it's just a--" "I don't want to hear your excuses!
The center has to be at least... three times bigger than this!" "...He's
absolutely right!" --Zoolander movie
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Ant
>> Yeah, central AC doesn't work so well since I am upstair (dang heat
>> rises). Also, I forgot to mention I do use the underclock feature
>>(cool'n'quiet) on my computers to keep cooler and use less power when
not idled or not using
>> much CPU.
>>
>> FYI, when my computer went down it was nice and cool in my room (70ish F
>> degrees).
>
> You might have an HVAC company check the freon level in the
> A/C, if it's low it could be time to replace it due to
> pinhole leaks.
I know the house's outdoor huge AC unit is old from the 80s. It does
blow cold air downstair nicely belomw heat rises, but upstair is soso
cool. Weather outside can get crazy hot like above 100F degrees to make
my upstair room can get hot up to almost 90F degrees without AC, but
with a fan on. My room is nice during cold times. Who needs a heater? ;)
> You can get duct fans that fit inline on the duct so more
> air is sucked and pushed through that duct, as well as
> closing register vents some in the lower levels of the home
> to better balance temperatures in the furthest rooms. It'll
> make the A/C run longer, higher electric bill, but
> ultimately the purpose of A/C is lost if it doesn't at least
> run long enough to keep temps low enough where needed.
Actually, that is what house members do. We close vents in bathrooms,
unused rooms, etc.
> A supplimental window A/C unit is another option, as well as
> situating the computer near the A/C register so the cool air
> reaches it, gets circulated through before being warmed as
> much by the rest of the air in the room.
Yeah, that is an idea but am not sure if the house power would be enough
to keep up? Remember turning on a 1996 CRT TV in my room and an old Dell
PC a few rooms away from mine separately made UPS hiccup (no outages and
flickers). I am worried what would happen if an AC is on. :/
--
"This is what metaphor is. It is not saying that an ant is an elephant.
Perhaps; both are alive. No. Metaphor is saying the ant is an elephant.
Now, logically speaking, I know there is a difference. If you put
elephants and ants before me, I believe that every time I will correctly
identify the elephant and the ant. So metaphor must come from a very
different place than that of the logical, intelligent mind. It comes
from a place that is very courageous, willing to step out of our
preconceived ways of seeing things and open so large that it can see the
oneness in an ant and in an elephant." --Natalie Goldberg
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
Dave C.
Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> On 12/3/2009 5:24 AM PT, Dave C. typed:
>
> >
> >>> Hmm, seems PSUs aren't doing so well. Who is the best these days
> >>> even if we have to pay a little more.
> >>
> >> You tell me!
> >
> > BFG or Corsair, either above 600W
>
> That's interesting. Those are new brands for PSUs for me. Wasn't OCZ
> to be good or something based a few years ago?
OCZ is OK. Still is. Not as good as BFG or Corsair though.
> How are SeaSonic,
If you can afford it, SeaSonic is still a great brand.
> Antec,
Antec doesn't make power supplies. You can buy a power supply marked
"Antec". Many of those used to be made by Seasonic, so Antec used to
be pretty good quality. But Seasonic doesn't make the Antec marked
units anymore. The only decent power supplies marked Antec are marked
Antec "Signature". But those are wicked expensive.
> and Enlight doing for PSUs these days?
Not sure about Enlight, but suspect that they'd still be good.
For a while now, power supply manufacturers have been producing crap
under 650W, and only bothering to TRY to produce something of good
quality if it's rated at 650W or higher. And among the 650W or higher
units, BFG and Corsair are dominating, as far as build quality goes.
That's not to say there aren't other good units. But if you are
looking for a power supply right now, think 650W or higher, and check
BFG or Corsair first. -Dave
Ant
>>> BFG or Corsair, either above 600W
>>
>> That's interesting. Those are new brands for PSUs for me. Wasn't OCZ
>> to be good or something based a few years ago?
>
> OCZ is OK. Still is. Not as good as BFG or Corsair though.
>
>> How are SeaSonic,
>
> If you can afford it, SeaSonic is still a great brand.
>
>> Antec,
>
> Antec doesn't make power supplies. You can buy a power supply marked
> "Antec". Many of those used to be made by Seasonic, so Antec used to
> be pretty good quality. But Seasonic doesn't make the Antec marked
> units anymore. The only decent power supplies marked Antec are marked
> Antec "Signature". But those are wicked expensive.
>
>> and Enlight doing for PSUs these days?
>
> Not sure about Enlight, but suspect that they'd still be good.
>
> For a while now, power supply manufacturers have been producing crap
> under 650W, and only bothering to TRY to produce something of good
> quality if it's rated at 650W or higher. And among the 650W or higher
> units, BFG and Corsair are dominating, as far as build quality goes.
> That's not to say there aren't other good units. But if you are
> looking for a power supply right now, think 650W or higher, and check
> BFG or Corsair first. -Dave
Interesting. I will have to check those out. I might have to get a new
PSU if I do have a dead/broken one.
--
"Be thine enemy an ant, see in him an elephant." --Turkish Proverb
Paul
Just remember that the power supply industry uses a lot of contract
builds. Companies like BFG or Corsair won't be making the supply
themselves. They'll contract to someone else. Seasonic makes their
own supplies. OCZTechnology bought PCPower, but it is likely in
either of those cases, that those are contract as well. PCPower has
done pretty well in the past, in picking suppliers for their power
supplies, as well as understanding issues when they arise. Antec is contract,
using in the past HEC, ChannelWell, now Seasonic and Delta, and who knows
who else.
There are web sites which discuss the various contract suppliers.
So if you do some research on your prospective purchase, you
may be able to tell who really makes it. A review here may
mention the actual supplier.
With all of this contracting, your reputation means nothing. The
supplies you sell, are only as good as the current contract you
set. Maybe you change suppliers in mid-stream, and don't bother
to change the part number. So while it is fun to pretend that
"brand X has a good reputation", it all depends on how they
handle their contractor. A good company, would do thorough
surveillance of the product being shipped, so goofups don't
get out the door. When you look at the history of Antec,
like supplies that didn't work with certain brands of motherboards,
or the recent issues with UPSes, they don't seem to be checking
their supplies in a practical way. To me, that is the value that
the "brand name" of the supply should be adding, the checking they
do to make sure that the thing they contracted, actually works
in the real world.
There was at least one contracting out type company (who shall remain
nameless), where none of the staff at the company had a foggy clue
how power supplies worked. In their web based tech support forum,
they would berate customers with problems, basically blaming all
the product problems on the customer usage. That is the most extreme
case I've seen, of a "small North American office with four guys in it",
playing the contract game. The things I saw in that forum were pitiful.
None of the brands named above would be quite that bad. Established
companies that don't like dealing with customers, simply make it hard
to contact them. There is at least one power supply company,
where in Canada, you can't reach anyone for warranty claims.
You have to make a stink, before they realize they don't have
any customer service to speak of. That makes it rather easy to
do business, when you never have to handle an RMA...
Paul
Ant
scarifices. Basically, it was worse than my computer hardware friend and
I thought. It was indeed the FSP PSU that went bust. We didn't have time
to do an autopsy due to lack of time and energy (almost midnight!).
We tried a new Antec Basiq BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V2.2
Modular Active PFC power supply
(http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NzA= ). Nothing came on
the screen. Not even POST! We tried changing memory (had four pieces),
using and removing GeForce 8800 GT video card, etc. Sometimes the
motherboard would do a long beep. My friend said it sounded like
critical error even if the video card is there. He even tried another
same MSI motherboard model that he brought in to test the CPU. Swapping
memory pieces and slots and adding/removing video card seems inconsitent
with either no long beeps or nothing, but both showed nothing on screen
or any other activities.
After experimenting, he believed that the CPU's memory controller got
damaged. Also, he thinks using Cool'n'Quiet to slow down and cool down
during idled/slow times and then maximizing out to full speed cause
problems with voltages (is that possible why my PSU and maybe CPU went
bust?). Later on, he is going to try another motherboard for this CPU
and see if it does the same.
If it is a damaged CPU, I could buy another AMD Athlon X2 939 CPU but
dang they are expensive from people (e.g., eBay) and not made by AMD
anymore due to its old age. :(
However, I was glad I kept my older computer system parts: ASUS K8V SE
Deluxe motherboard, 2.5 GB of RAM, and Athlon 754 3200+ (single core)
CPU. We were able to reuse the RAM (could not use the last 512 MB piece
due to three slots for two 1 GB and 512 MB pieces).
Yeah, it's slower, no dualcore, and slightly less memory but at least I
have my secondary box up. :(
--
"When many work together for a goal, great things may be accomplished.
It is said a lion cub was killed by a single colony of ants." --Saskya
Pandita
kony
wrote:
>We tried a new Antec Basiq BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V2.2
>Modular Active PFC power supply
>(http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NzA= ). Nothing came on
>the screen. Not even POST!
At that point, clearing CMOS would be the next step.
>We tried changing memory (had four pieces),
Trying one module at a time, in different slots, and
clearing CMOS each time? Some boards get picky about
whether you were in dual channel mode and change to single
channel though I don't know about that one.
>using and removing GeForce 8800 GT video card, etc. Sometimes the
>motherboard would do a long beep. My friend said it sounded like
>critical error even if the video card is there. He even tried another
>same MSI motherboard model that he brought in to test the CPU. Swapping
>memory pieces and slots and adding/removing video card seems inconsitent
>with either no long beeps or nothing, but both showed nothing on screen
>or any other activities.
>
>After experimenting, he believed that the CPU's memory controller got
>damaged.
That seems a random and unlikely presumption. I won't
suggest it's impossible, but attributing lack of POST to one
part of a CPU die failing seems beyond reasonable.
IF the capacitors on the motherboard have popped, or the
heatsink fell off while it was running, or the heatsink fan
stopped and it was ran like that for awhile, then I would
suspect the CPU a bit more. Otherwise, PSU and/or
motherboard issues are more likely but you come upon a whole
new set of variables when you introduce new parts not yet
proven to work together with the existing ones even if they
should work in theory.
For example, can it be demonstrated that the new motherboard
is compatible with the CPU and that it runs ok with all the
other parts but a different CPU? Merely mishandling a board
can scramble CMOS, or a board sitting unpowered for awhile
can drain the battery and some boards won't post with a
drained battery.
>Also, he thinks using Cool'n'Quiet to slow down and cool down
>during idled/slow times and then maximizing out to full speed cause
>problems with voltages (is that possible why my PSU and maybe CPU went
>bust?). Later on, he is going to try another motherboard for this CPU
>and see if it does the same.
Using Cool 'n Quiet would cause larger changes in current
compared to not using it, but the above PSU and any other
remotely close to accurately rated (modern with a couple
dozen A of 12V rail current roughly, actually less in
reality but 2 dozen is a nice round number) should have no
trouble with response time sufficient to deal with Cool 'n
quiet and have no damage as a result, nor any to the CPU.
If it were remotely prone to cause this type of problem the
feature never would exist.
Ant
> On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:02:48 -0800, Ant<a...@zimage.comANT>
> wrote:
>
>> We tried a new Antec Basiq BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V2.2
>> Modular Active PFC power supply
>> (http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NzA= ). Nothing came on
>> the screen. Not even POST!
>
> At that point, clearing CMOS would be the next step.
That didn't work either. :(
>> We tried changing memory (had four pieces),
>
> Trying one module at a time, in different slots, and
> clearing CMOS each time? Some boards get picky about
> whether you were in dual channel mode and change to single
> channel though I don't know about that one.
That didn't work either.
It is the same exact motherboard and using a different CMOS battery (not
reusing the same one).
>> Also, he thinks using Cool'n'Quiet to slow down and cool down
>> during idled/slow times and then maximizing out to full speed cause
>> problems with voltages (is that possible why my PSU and maybe CPU went
>> bust?). Later on, he is going to try another motherboard for this CPU
>> and see if it does the same.
>
> Using Cool 'n Quiet would cause larger changes in current
> compared to not using it, but the above PSU and any other
> remotely close to accurately rated (modern with a couple
> dozen A of 12V rail current roughly, actually less in
> reality but 2 dozen is a nice round number) should have no
> trouble with response time sufficient to deal with Cool 'n
> quiet and have no damage as a result, nor any to the CPU.
> If it were remotely prone to cause this type of problem the
> feature never would exist.
Yeah, AMD would not support it. I use Linux/Debian's AMD PowerNow with
ondemand that is basically Cool'n'Quiet. See
http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/cpu-freq/amd-powernow.txt ...
dmesg:
# dmesg |grep powernow
[ 19.473810] powernow-k8: Found 1 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+
processors (1 cpu cores) (version 2.20.00)
[ 19.473867] powernow-k8: 0 : fid 0xe (2200 MHz), vid 0x2
[ 19.473870] powernow-k8: 1 : fid 0xc (2000 MHz), vid 0x6
[ 19.473872] powernow-k8: 2 : fid 0xa (1800 MHz), vid 0xa
[ 19.473874] powernow-k8: 3 : fid 0x2 (1000 MHz), vid 0x12
Most of the times, it is slow because I am just surfing or my box
idling. Once in a while, it goes max speed because I am doing something
intensive like compiling, copying files (IDE/PATA/network), etc.
--
"Ants follow fat." --unknown
Paul
> On 12/5/2009 12:12 PM PT, kony typed:
>
>> On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:02:48 -0800, Ant<a...@zimage.comANT>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We tried a new Antec Basiq BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V2.2
>>> Modular Active PFC power supply
>>> (http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NzA= ). Nothing came on
>>> the screen. Not even POST!
>>
>> At that point, clearing CMOS would be the next step.
>
> That didn't work either. :(
I might have tried some beep tests. For example, if the processor
was able to read the BIOS flash chip, it might be able to "beep"
the computer case speaker, if the RAM and video are missing. The
beep pattern might involve one, two, or three beeps, in a repeating
pattern. To make the beeps requires working BIOS code, which would
be proof that some small portion of the system was working.
The BIOS POST sequence does tests, and if it finds the RAM or the
video missing, it is supposed to beep the case speaker. And you
can use a response like that, as a hardware test case.
In terms of things that fail, from top to bottom they might be
1) PSU
2) Hard drive (some last only two days)
3) RAM (checking the reviews, some don't seem to last that long)
4) Motherboard (bad caps or PCI Express slot blown by static)
The processor hardly ever gets damaged.
When the PSU fails, things that are more "isolated" have a
better chance of survival.
PSU ------ Hard_Drive (direct connection, overvoltage might kill it)
------ RAM_voltage_regulator ----- RAM (some isolation)
------ Vcore_voltage_regulator --- CPU (some isolation)
I can give other examples, like the time I thought I ruined a lab
instrument. I was working in a live chassis (open face power
supply connected to 120V). I'd commented to my managers that
this wasn't a very bright way to do things. And one day, I'm
working in the lab, and the ground of my lab instrument dropped
into the 120V circuit. Bam!
Our instrumentation repair department are miracle workers. In
only two days, my buddy there found a couple chips in the front
end of the instrument that were blown. Everything else was fine.
Only the thing nearest to the fault was ruined, and I was
saved the embarrassment of explaining how a very expensive
instrument was ruined.
You can see the same kind of effects, when there is lightning
damage. Lightning can be induced into power conductors, or can
follow the modem cabling or Ethernet wire from a broadband modem.
The further a component inside the computer is, from those
connections, the better the odds it'll survive.
So if, when the power supply failed, it damaged stuff, you
should look at how the various items get power, to get some
idea of the odds they got damaged. The hard drive, has a
transient suppressor on each rails, and that is intended to
clip inductive transients. It isn't meant to crowbar a
freaked out power supply. So the hard drive is going to
feel it, if the power supply puts out more voltage
than it is supposed to. Things like CPU and RAM, have
regulators in front of them, that, if you're lucky,
provide some protection. The regulators have some max
voltage input allowed, which could be a bit higher than
the normal operating voltage.
I think you could continue to do some testing on your
old components. The beep tests might help you.
Paul
Ant
> I might have tried some beep tests. For example, if the processor
> was able to read the BIOS flash chip, it might be able to "beep"
> the computer case speaker, if the RAM and video are missing. The
> beep pattern might involve one, two, or three beeps, in a repeating
> pattern. To make the beeps requires working BIOS code, which would
> be proof that some small portion of the system was working.
There were times when the computer didn't beep at all even though the
fans were spinning.
> The BIOS POST sequence does tests, and if it finds the RAM or the
> video missing, it is supposed to beep the case speaker. And you
> can use a response like that, as a hardware test case.
Yeah, we did that.
> In terms of things that fail, from top to bottom they might be
>
> 1) PSU
> 2) Hard drive (some last only two days)
Great. :( I hope that's not mine.
> 3) RAM (checking the reviews, some don't seem to last that long)
Yeah, I had a Kingston 512 MB RAM module go bad last year in that same
box last year, but other RAM piece was OK.
> 4) Motherboard (bad caps or PCI Express slot blown by static)
>
> The processor hardly ever gets damaged.
Hmm. Well, we will have to see what happens when he uses another
motherboard beside the MSI we used.
> When the PSU fails, things that are more "isolated" have a
> better chance of survival.
>
> PSU ------ Hard_Drive (direct connection, overvoltage might kill it)
> ------ RAM_voltage_regulator ----- RAM (some isolation)
> ------ Vcore_voltage_regulator --- CPU (some isolation)
>
> I can give other examples, like the time I thought I ruined a lab
> instrument. I was working in a live chassis (open face power
> supply connected to 120V). I'd commented to my managers that
> this wasn't a very bright way to do things. And one day, I'm
> working in the lab, and the ground of my lab instrument dropped
> into the 120V circuit. Bam!
>
> Our instrumentation repair department are miracle workers. In
> only two days, my buddy there found a couple chips in the front
> end of the instrument that were blown. Everything else was fine.
> Only the thing nearest to the fault was ruined, and I was
> saved the embarrassment of explaining how a very expensive
> instrument was ruined.
>
> You can see the same kind of effects, when there is lightning
> damage. Lightning can be induced into power conductors, or can
> follow the modem cabling or Ethernet wire from a broadband modem.
> The further a component inside the computer is, from those
> connections, the better the odds it'll survive.
Yeah, we rarely get lightings here in Los Angeles area.
> So if, when the power supply failed, it damaged stuff, you
> should look at how the various items get power, to get some
> idea of the odds they got damaged. The hard drive, has a
> transient suppressor on each rails, and that is intended to
> clip inductive transients. It isn't meant to crowbar a
> freaked out power supply. So the hard drive is going to
> feel it, if the power supply puts out more voltage
> than it is supposed to. Things like CPU and RAM, have
> regulators in front of them, that, if you're lucky,
> provide some protection. The regulators have some max
> voltage input allowed, which could be a bit higher than
> the normal operating voltage.
Interesting.
> I think you could continue to do some testing on your
> old components. The beep tests might help you.
Well, we tried a lot with two exact same MSI motherboards (mine and his
new one) last night with four good brand RAM modules separately, and one
EVGA GeForce 8800 GT (512 MB; PCIE). Oh and that was with the new Antec PSU.
--
"An ant may work its (her) heart out, but it (she) can't make money."
Ant
> Interesting. I know I do use Southern California Edison (SCE),
> underground powerlines in this neighborhood, the house was built in the
> late 70s/early 80s. I never configured the UPS' so I always used the
> defaults. I thought it was smart and automatic to detect changes like
> sensitive ranges. I haven't had problems with it since 2005 and does
> beep when turning on my old CRT TV or dad turning on his old Dell
> Optiplex PC. I will have to share my UPS' statistics and event logs
> after I get my Linux box up (assuming it didn't kill my HDDs). I
> remember the power hiccups are like a second long. Very short.
FYI, here's the UPS log (notice all the little power hiccups) of when I
was using Athlon 64 X2 CPU system connected to my Linux/Debian box
before the incident:
$ cat /var/log/apcupsd.events
Sat Dec 27 16:06:26 PST 2008 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Sat Dec 27 16:06:26 PST 2008 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Sat Dec 27 17:08:56 PST 2008 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Sat Dec 27 17:08:56 PST 2008 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Sat Dec 27 17:21:01 PST 2008 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Sat Dec 27 17:21:01 PST 2008 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Sat Dec 27 18:13:36 PST 2008 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Sat Dec 27 18:13:36 PST 2008 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Sun Dec 28 20:36:19 PST 2008 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Sun Dec 28 20:36:19 PST 2008 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Tue Dec 30 07:06:46 PST 2008 Power failure.
Tue Dec 30 07:06:48 PST 2008 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Sat Jan 03 13:22:31 PST 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Sat Jan 03 13:22:31 PST 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Sat Jan 03 14:14:38 PST 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Sat Jan 03 14:14:38 PST 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Fri Jan 09 23:05:32 PST 2009 Power failure.
Fri Jan 09 23:05:35 PST 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Sat Jan 10 17:34:54 PST 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Sat Jan 10 17:34:54 PST 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Fri Jan 16 06:41:27 PST 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Fri Jan 16 06:41:27 PST 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Fri Jan 16 06:44:17 PST 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Fri Jan 16 06:44:17 PST 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Wed Jan 28 21:12:15 PST 2009 Power failure.
Wed Jan 28 21:12:18 PST 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Sat Jan 31 19:55:54 PST 2009 Power failure.
Sat Jan 31 19:55:56 PST 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Sat Feb 07 10:30:54 PST 2009 Power failure.
Sat Feb 07 10:30:57 PST 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Fri Feb 13 07:49:14 PST 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Fri Feb 13 07:49:14 PST 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Sat Feb 21 14:35:25 PST 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Sat Feb 21 14:35:25 PST 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Sat Feb 21 20:34:03 PST 2009 Power failure.
Sat Feb 21 20:34:06 PST 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Tue Mar 03 21:18:32 PST 2009 Power failure.
Tue Mar 03 21:18:34 PST 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Tue Mar 03 21:56:50 PST 2009 Power failure.
Tue Mar 03 21:56:53 PST 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Tue Mar 17 21:17:14 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Tue Mar 17 21:17:16 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Mon Mar 23 22:21:31 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Mon Mar 23 22:21:33 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Tue Mar 31 22:19:27 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Tue Mar 31 22:19:30 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Fri Apr 03 22:18:01 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Fri Apr 03 22:18:04 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Sun Apr 12 11:26:10 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Sun Apr 12 11:26:13 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Fri Apr 17 22:40:47 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Fri Apr 17 22:40:49 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Sun Apr 19 12:49:14 PDT 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Sun Apr 19 12:49:15 PDT 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Wed Apr 22 20:31:26 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Wed Apr 22 20:31:28 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Thu Apr 23 21:54:41 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Thu Apr 23 21:54:44 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Mon Apr 27 21:25:48 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Mon Apr 27 21:25:51 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Wed May 13 20:51:58 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Wed May 13 20:52:01 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Fri May 22 16:16:46 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Fri May 22 16:16:48 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Sun May 31 19:27:01 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Sun May 31 19:27:03 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Wed Jun 03 17:50:37 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Wed Jun 03 17:50:40 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Wed Jun 10 06:20:26 PDT 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Wed Jun 10 06:20:26 PDT 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Wed Jun 10 06:21:52 PDT 2009 apcupsd 3.14.6 (16 May 2009) debian
startup succeeded
Tue Jun 23 21:55:30 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Tue Jun 23 21:55:33 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Thu Jul 02 09:34:39 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Thu Jul 02 09:34:42 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Mon Jul 13 21:27:49 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Mon Jul 13 21:27:53 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Sat Jul 18 11:23:30 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Sat Jul 18 11:23:32 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Tue Jul 21 21:01:39 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Tue Jul 21 21:01:42 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Wed Jul 22 08:38:16 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Wed Jul 22 08:38:18 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Fri Aug 21 22:45:41 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Fri Aug 21 22:45:46 PDT 2009 Running on UPS batteries.
Fri Aug 21 22:46:39 PDT 2009 Mains returned. No longer on UPS batteries.
Fri Aug 21 22:46:39 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Sun Sep 06 03:14:24 PDT 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Sun Sep 06 03:14:24 PDT 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Sun Sep 06 03:14:49 PDT 2009 apcupsd 3.14.6 (16 May 2009) debian
startup succeeded
Sun Sep 13 17:44:26 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Sun Sep 13 17:44:28 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Thu Sep 24 21:32:12 PDT 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Thu Sep 24 21:32:12 PDT 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Thu Sep 24 21:33:49 PDT 2009 apcupsd 3.14.6 (16 May 2009) debian
startup succeeded
Thu Sep 24 21:38:20 PDT 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Thu Sep 24 21:38:20 PDT 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Thu Sep 24 21:39:41 PDT 2009 apcupsd 3.14.6 (16 May 2009) debian
startup succeeded
Fri Sep 25 06:30:52 PDT 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Fri Sep 25 06:30:52 PDT 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Fri Sep 25 06:32:17 PDT 2009 apcupsd 3.14.6 (16 May 2009) debian
startup succeeded
Fri Sep 25 06:37:18 PDT 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Fri Sep 25 06:37:18 PDT 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Fri Sep 25 06:38:28 PDT 2009 apcupsd 3.14.6 (16 May 2009) debian
startup succeeded
Fri Sep 25 07:01:53 PDT 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Fri Sep 25 07:01:53 PDT 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Fri Sep 25 07:03:03 PDT 2009 apcupsd 3.14.6 (16 May 2009) debian
startup succeeded
Sun Sep 27 00:27:00 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Sun Sep 27 00:27:03 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Tue Sep 29 23:45:58 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Tue Sep 29 23:46:01 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Mon Oct 05 21:48:15 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Mon Oct 05 21:48:17 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Fri Oct 16 20:05:14 PDT 2009 Power failure.
Fri Oct 16 20:05:17 PDT 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Fri Nov 06 22:25:55 PST 2009 Power failure.
Fri Nov 06 22:25:57 PST 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Mon Nov 16 22:36:43 PST 2009 apcupsd exiting, signal 15
Mon Nov 16 22:36:43 PST 2009 apcupsd shutdown succeeded
Mon Nov 16 22:39:31 PST 2009 apcupsd 3.14.6 (16 May 2009) debian
startup succeeded
Fri Nov 27 16:44:10 PST 2009 Power failure.
Fri Nov 27 16:44:13 PST 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Sat Nov 28 13:30:08 PST 2009 Power failure.
Sat Nov 28 13:30:14 PST 2009 Running on UPS batteries.
Sat Nov 28 13:30:25 PST 2009 Mains returned. No longer on UPS batteries.
<<a real power outage for almost a minute here>>
Sat Nov 28 13:30:25 PST 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
Sat Nov 28 13:30:26 PST 2009 Power failure.
Sat Nov 28 13:30:32 PST 2009 Running on UPS batteries.
Sat Nov 28 13:31:08 PST 2009 Mains returned. No longer on UPS batteries.
Sat Nov 28 13:31:08 PST 2009 Power is back. UPS running on mains.
My box crashed on Monday night, 12/1/2009, before 9:00 PM PST.
Here's my current UPS statistics on my OLDER Athlon 64 single core 754
CPU system since my X2 CPU is busted or whatever for now:
$ /sbin/apcaccess
APC : 001,037,0904
DATE : Sun Dec 06 16:52:41 PST 2009
HOSTNAME : MyBox
VERSION : 3.14.6 (16 May 2009) debian
UPSNAME : MyBox
CABLE : USB Cable
MODEL : Back-UPS RS 1500
UPSMODE : Stand Alone
STARTTIME: Sat Dec 05 18:41:28 PST 2009
STATUS : ONLINE
LINEV : 115.0 Volts
LOADPCT : 35.0 Percent Load Capacity
BCHARGE : 100.0 Percent
TIMELEFT : 24.0 Minutes
MBATTCHG : 5 Percent
MINTIMEL : 3 Minutes
MAXTIME : 0 Seconds
SENSE : High
LOTRANS : 097.0 Volts
HITRANS : 138.0 Volts
ALARMDEL : Always
BATTV : 26.9 Volts
LASTXFER : Low line voltage
NUMXFERS : 0
TONBATT : 0 seconds
CUMONBATT: 0 seconds
XOFFBATT : N/A
SELFTEST : NO
STATFLAG : 0x07000008 Status Flag
MANDATE : 2005-03-16
SERIALNO : QB0512132444
BATTDATE : 2001-09-25
NOMINV : 120 Volts
NOMBATTV : 24.0 Volts
NOMPOWER : 865 Watts
FIRMWARE : 8.g8 .D USB FW:g8
APCMODEL : Back-UPS RS 1500
END APC : Sun Dec 06 16:53:19 PST 2009
$ sensors -f
k8temp-pci-00c3
Adapter: PCI adapter
Core0 Temp: +87.8°F
w83697hf-isa-0290
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0: +1.12 V (min = +0.19 V, max = +0.14 V) ALARM
in2: +3.34 V (min = +0.43 V, max = +0.02 V) ALARM
in3: +2.99 V (min = +0.02 V, max = +0.13 V) ALARM
in4: +2.99 V (min = +0.06 V, max = +2.99 V)
in5: +3.28 V (min = +0.06 V, max = +2.50 V) ALARM
in6: +4.08 V (min = +2.82 V, max = +0.00 V) ALARM
in7: +3.30 V (min = +2.13 V, max = +0.29 V) ALARM
in8: +3.18 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +1.28 V) ALARM
fan1: 0 RPM (min = 73 RPM, div = 128) ALARM
fan2: 2428 RPM (min = 1506 RPM, div = 4)
temp1: +87.8°F (high = +172.4°F, hyst = +105.8°F) sensor =
thermistor
temp2: +90.5°F (high = +176.0°F, hyst = +167.0°F) sensor =
thermistor
beep_enable:enabled
NOTE: Using AMD's Cool'n'Quiet with Linux/Debian's Powernow and mostly
idling: $ w
16:58:20 up 22:17, 3 users, load average: 0.01, 0.05, 0.07
I hope that helps? :D
--
"What is that?" "Some kind of insect?" "It's an ant." "Girl, you needed
an exterminator. She had ants on her face." "Well, these aren't your
garden-variety dumpster ants." "And they aren't ... to decomp." "Why are
they in her stomach?" "La hormiga culona--leaf cutter ants. It's a
Colombian dish." "Are you saying that people eat them?" "Fried." "Okay,
so we are looking for a club that serves fried ants." --CSI: Miami
(Wannabe episode; #218)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
GlowingBlueMist
This may sound unscientific but if you were to remove your UPS and plug
directly into the outlet do your computers remain stable when someone turns
on the TV or the Dell unit? If so I personally would pick a lower
sensitivity range and let the UPS just trigger on actual power outages.
Sounds like your are taking minor voltage dips just below the 97 volt
threshold it is currently set for.
I would still plug in a three prong outlet tester to verify the outlet is
properly grounded and such. An outlet with a bad ground or other electrical
fault makes the surge suppression part of a UPS just about useless.
Ant
[snipped]
> This may sound unscientific but if you were to remove your UPS and plug
> directly into the outlet do your computers remain stable when someone turns
> on the TV or the Dell unit? If so I personally would pick a lower
> sensitivity range and let the UPS just trigger on actual power outages.
> Sounds like your are taking minor voltage dips just below the 97 volt
> threshold it is currently set for.
What do you mean by my computers being stable? I never noticed any
unstability with UPS connected and when the power hiccups occur. I only
hear my UPS beep when the 1996 CRT TV turns on OR my dad's old Dell
Optiplex turns on. Also, this is rarely and randomly. I can't always
reproduce it either.
Also, how would I pick lower senstivity range and is that safe?
> I would still plug in a three prong outlet tester to verify the outlet is
> properly grounded and such. An outlet with a bad ground or other electrical
> fault makes the surge suppression part of a UPS just about useless.
OK. I will have to buy one.
I think I forgot to mention this earlier. With my previous APC UPS
(Back-UPS 650VA (BK650MC)) from 2001, I heard it beep randomly and
rarely unrelated to turning on/off stuff like the TV. In late summer of
2005 (four years old), I had to get rid of the UPS because it would
randomly shutdown and take everything connected down. I don't know if
those are clues to my power issue and incidents. So far, the second UPS
is about 4.25 years old.
--
"For me, the smartest animal's a pigeon." "Huh?" "1,000 cars on the
turnpike, they find mine." "My vote goes to the ants." "How do you
figure that?" "Know those farms they build? They build those things
without plans. To ants! For all you do, this one's for you." --Cheers
(unknown episode)
david
> So far, the second UPS
> is about 4.25 years old.
The batteries are probably shot.
Ant
>> So far, the second UPS
>> is about 4.25 years old.
>
> The batteries are probably shot.
How can I check if it is shot?
--
"It doesn't matter what your D&D manual says, you did not get 5
experience points for killing the giant ant in your kitchen." --BBspot's
Geek Horoscopes (7/30/2004)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| |
david
> On 12/7/2009 2:56 AM PT, david typed:
>
>>> So far, the second UPS
>>> is about 4.25 years old.
>>
>> The batteries are probably shot.
>
> How can I check if it is shot?
Do you stil have the manual for the UPS? If the UPS is not able to hold
up the equipment durng a power failure (as you described your last UPS)
that is a clue that the batteries are going bad. If the batteries can't
provide at least 3/4 of the holdup time claimed by the manufacturer at a
given load, they should be replaced. Battery life is dictated by many
factors: the number of charge/discharge cycles and operating temperature
are key factors.
Ant
>>>> So far, the second UPS
>>>> is about 4.25 years old.
>>>
>>> The batteries are probably shot.
>>
>> How can I check if it is shot?
>
> Do you stil have the manual for the UPS? If the UPS is not able to hold
> up the equipment durng a power failure (as you described your last UPS)
> that is a clue that the batteries are going bad. If the batteries can't
> provide at least 3/4 of the holdup time claimed by the manufacturer at a
> given load, they should be replaced. Battery life is dictated by many
> factors: the number of charge/discharge cycles and operating temperature
> are key factors.
I should have it SOMEWHERE, but I'd need to dig it out. Maybe we can
find a PDF of it online for APC Back-UPS XS BX1500. I know UPS handled
the computers and my 19" LCD monitor with:
1. 1-2 minutes power outage from a few weeks ago.
2. Beeps UPS made when the old CRT TV, in my room, and Dell PC, in the
few room down near mine.
3. A five minutes power outage or so from a few months ago.
All these events should be in the logs.
I never had any power outages that lasted like 30 minutes or an hour.
--
"... human societies send their young men to war, weaver-ant societies
send their old ladies." --Wilson and Holldobler
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
kony
<no...@nospam.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 08:10:03 -0800, Ant rearranged some electrons to say:
>
>> On 12/7/2009 2:56 AM PT, david typed:
>>
>>>> So far, the second UPS
>>>> is about 4.25 years old.
>>>
>>> The batteries are probably shot.
>>
>> How can I check if it is shot?
>
>Do you stil have the manual for the UPS? If the UPS is not able to hold
>up the equipment durng a power failure (as you described your last UPS)
>that is a clue that the batteries are going bad. If the batteries can't
>provide at least 3/4 of the holdup time claimed by the manufacturer at a
>given load, they should be replaced.
Not true. All the battery has to do is provide the _needed_
runtime, it matters little to nothing if it meets a certain
% of original capacity.
The point being, most outtages fall on the extremes. Either
extremely short, or significantly longer than a small budget
constrained UPS can accomodate. Therefore the most
reasonable position for an UPS powering a computer is that
it merely needs to run the system long enough to save work
and shut down gracefully, which tends to be 1-2 minutes at
most unless the system has some software problem preventing
proper shutdown.
>Battery life is dictated by many
>factors: the number of charge/discharge cycles and operating temperature
>are key factors.
True, but we're going off on a tangent. While I agree a
4.25 year old battery is probably due to be replaced due to
age alone, it is not really applicable to the topic of dying
power supplies.
david
Although everyone is entitled to their opinion, that doesn't make it fact.
Lead acid batteries, once the plates start sulphating, will rapidly 1ose
capacity. Once the battery reaches 75% capacity that is a sign that is
happening.
david
Besides, I was answering Ant's question about how to check his UPS
batteries. If you don't like the fact that he changed the subject, tough
shit.
kony
<no...@nospam.com> wrote:
>Although everyone is entitled to their opinion, that doesn't make it fact.
You aren't dealing with facts alone, you are stating your
judgement of what someone else "should" need out of their
UPS instead of whether it could mean any particular need.
>
>Lead acid batteries, once the plates start sulphating, will rapidly 1ose
>capacity. Once the battery reaches 75% capacity that is a sign that is
>happening.
It doesn't matter if they rapidly lose capacity so long as
they retain "enough" capacity which many do for a few years
longer. This is particularly true if the UPS is set to shut
down the system expediently instead of trying to get max
runtime, coming closer to fully discharging the battery.
kony
... but you're the kook who got Ant started on this crazy
tangent of whether the UPS battery is something to focus on
when the problem is failing power supplies!
david
Tough shit.
kony
<no...@nospam.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:49:22 -0500, kony rearranged some electrons to say:
>
>> On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:26:48 +0000 (UTC), david <no...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> True, but we're going off on a tangent. While I agree a 4.25 year old
>>>> battery is probably due to be replaced due to age alone, it is not
>>>> really applicable to the topic of dying power supplies.
>>>
>>>Besides, I was answering Ant's question about how to check his UPS
>>>batteries. If you don't like the fact that he changed the subject,
>>>tough shit.
>>
>>
>> ... but you're the kook who got Ant started on this crazy tangent of
>> whether the UPS battery is something to focus on when the problem is
>> failing power supplies!
>
>Tough shit.
What is the point of posting if it doesn't do anything to
resolve the reason the topic exists?
I suppose I could act like a two year old too, do you think
that would help?
Ant
My friend tried my motherboard and CPU again... Well, there are two bad
news and one good news:
Bad news #1: Video card is going bad or about to go bad. He said bad
solderings. Sheesh, I just RMA'ed this video card almost a year ago for
replacing my EVGA GeForce 7950 GT KO and got this 8800 (1 year so I will
have to RMA very soon). Ugh.
Bad news #2: PSU is definitely dead. :(
Good news: Motherboard and CPU still work with other PCIE video cards
(Nvidia 9400 and ATI 3450).
:D
On 12/5/2009 3:02 AM PT, Ant typed:
> OK! I got my old box back online, but had to make temporary(?)
> scarifices. Basically, it was worse than my computer hardware friend and
> I thought. It was indeed the FSP PSU that went bust. We didn't have time
> to do an autopsy due to lack of time and energy (almost midnight!).
>
> We tried a new Antec Basiq BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V2.2
> Modular Active PFC power supply
> (http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NzA= ). Nothing came on
> the screen. Not even POST! We tried changing memory (had four pieces),
> using and removing GeForce 8800 GT video card, etc. Sometimes the
> motherboard would do a long beep. My friend said it sounded like
> critical error even if the video card is there. He even tried another
> same MSI motherboard model that he brought in to test the CPU. Swapping
> memory pieces and slots and adding/removing video card seems inconsitent
> with either no long beeps or nothing, but both showed nothing on screen
> or any other activities.
>
> After experimenting, he believed that the CPU's memory controller got
> damaged. Also, he thinks using Cool'n'Quiet to slow down and cool down
> during idled/slow times and then maximizing out to full speed cause
> problems with voltages (is that possible why my PSU and maybe CPU went
> bust?). Later on, he is going to try another motherboard for this CPU
> and see if it does the same.
>
> If it is a damaged CPU, I could buy another AMD Athlon X2 939 CPU but
> dang they are expensive from people (e.g., eBay) and not made by AMD
> anymore due to its old age. :(
>
> However, I was glad I kept my older computer system parts: ASUS K8V SE
> Deluxe motherboard, 2.5 GB of RAM, and Athlon 754 3200+ (single core)
> CPU. We were able to reuse the RAM (could not use the last 512 MB piece
> due to three slots for two 1 GB and 512 MB pieces).
>
> Yeah, it's slower, no dualcore, and slightly less memory but at least I
> have my secondary box up. :(
--
"For me, the smartest animal's a pigeon." "Huh?" "1,000 cars on the
turnpike, they find mine." "My vote goes to the ants." "How do you
figure that?" "Know those farms they build? They build those things
without plans. To ants! For all you do, this one's for you." --Cheers
(unknown episode)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
kony
wrote:
>Updates...
>
>My friend tried my motherboard and CPU again... Well, there are two bad
>news and one good news:
>
>Bad news #1: Video card is going bad or about to go bad. He said bad
>solderings. Sheesh, I just RMA'ed this video card almost a year ago for
>replacing my EVGA GeForce 7950 GT KO and got this 8800 (1 year so I will
>have to RMA very soon). Ugh.
"bad soldering" isn't a very common problem. Not that it's
impossible, but to the extent there is clear evidence of a
soldering problem rather than some other problem, it isn't
the kind of thing someone can typically detect as the
problem so the diagnosis seems questionable - although in
the end it may not matter, if the PSU is capable and the
motherboard works with a different video card (probably
ruling out a bad slot/contacts), the other vidoe card could
still be deemed a failure.
>
>Bad news #2: PSU is definitely dead. :(
>
>Good news: Motherboard and CPU still work with other PCIE video cards
>(Nvidia 9400 and ATI 3450).
>
Might be time to look into getting a proper line conditioner
and full-range (<110-220V+ input without having a switch to
flip) active PFC PSU. Beyond that, most PSU of similar
quality are more alike than different, if you don't resolve
the problem that's killing the PSU, they'll probably keep
dying.