[PWH] New Webmaster Selection - Status Report
Ron May
"New Webmaster Selection - Discussion and VOTE" thread, and once it
closes, I'll post the final tally here as a reply to this nessage.
I reviewed all 110 posts up to this point, and 14 official ballots
have been cast so far. Only one(*) could not be verified (by me) as a
valid poster, but I included it in the totals below:
(1) I vote for Craig to be the new PWH webmaster.
Nine ballots: Ron May, POKO, Vegard Krog Petersen, Lew,
Rem, Larry Sabo, Thip, Bjorn S. and F.Reeware
(2) I vote for Bear Bottoms to be the new PWH webmaster.
Zero ballots.
(3) I think more discussion is needed and I do not wish to cast a vote
for either as webmaster at the present time.
Five ballors: Craig, miskairal, Ranrad, Ron and (*)Kabouter Luc.
The complete thread is here: http://tinyurl.com/p858l9
Be advised that several posters set the X-NoArchive bit and the first
of those posts will start disappearing about 20 hours from now.
While there was the usual garbage from trolls bent on making noise,
there was a surprising amount of productive discussion. Starting with
Craig:
> For those who recently "voted for Craig as webmaster," please consider
> making that a "vote of confidence for Craig volunteering to be
> responsible these tasks." As well, take a look at what you can
> volunteer to do.
Craig's list (no pun intended) shows Craig, REM and burnr volunteering
for administrative tasks, REM (in the Webmaster Selection thread) and
burnr (elsewhere) essentially agreeing to assist in that regard in a
supporting role.
The other two recurring themes in comments from others is that they
approve of the volunteer concept and at the same time feel there is a
need to have one person in overall charge, regardless of wether the
position is "Webmaster" or some other title.
No one else expressed an interest in the position, snd no participant
floated another name as a Webmaster candidate.
Officially, Susan is still the Webmaster "until the end of June" but
AFAIK she hasn't set a specific date for the actual handover.
The volunteer "Sign Up Sheet" for PWH tasks is in this thread:
All are encouraged to assist as their skills and available time
permit.
I'll put a closing post in the other thread later, and post any last
minute changes as a reply to this message. Comments and observations
from others are welcome in this thread but, barring a last minute
ballot upset, I will defer to Craig on all related issues and
commentary regarding the new Webmaster assignment(s).
--
Ron M.
Trolls aren't interested in having solution-oriented discussion.
They only want to create disruption for disruption's sake.
Don't get suckered into playing their game. When you do, they
win and we all lose. PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!
badgolferman >
Susan is under no obligation to design the website per anyone's vision
other than her own since she is the one doing the work. If you want
the website to look a certain way either do it yourself or get someone
else to do so. It sounds like you are in favor of BB's website design
and he has offered to do it. The choices I see are:
1) Accept Susan's design
2) Ask her to change it
3) Fire her
Option 1 requires little work on her part and little work on your part.
Option 2 requires much work on her part and little work on your part.
Option 3 requires little work on her part and much work on your part.
Maybe you see why she is resistant to changing the design.
Regardless of who wants to be in control the truth is Susan is at this
point until a revolt forces her to abandon the project. The revolt
started two years ago and we have seen the results since. This is just
a new offensive with a new general.
Lubow
My advice to Susan would be "Do it the way you want and ignore
anything that you don't like."
She does all the work, so IMO she gets to make *all* the decisions
about how, when, where and why it's done. She can accept or ignore
advice and complaints as she sees fit. If anyone doesn't like the way
she does it, that's too bad for them.
Max Wachtel
> snip bg forge <
> My advice to Susan would be "Do it the way you want and ignore
> anything that you don't like."
>
> She does all the work, so IMO she gets to make *all* the decisions
> about how, when, where and why it's done. She can accept or ignore
> advice and complaints as she sees fit. If anyone doesn't like the way
> she does it, that's too bad for them.
you are replying to a forgery
--
Virus Removal http://max.shplink.com/removal.html
Change nomail.afraid.org to gmail.com to reply by email.
nomail.afraid.org is specifically set up for use in USENET.
Feel free to use it yourself.
Ron
I'm not certain this is the appropriate place to post this, but imo
we've now had the discussion as suggested by option 3). Therefore, I
respectfully re-vote and change to 1), as I feel Craig has the ability
and focus to keep this meandering herd of cats on message. Not an easy
job, under the best of circumstances, but I'm confident we can get as
much or more done with Craig.
Ron
Ron May
wrote:
> I'm not certain this is the appropriate place to post this, but imo
> we've now had the discussion as suggested by option 3). Therefore, I
> respectfully re-vote and change to 1), as I feel Craig has the ability
> and focus to keep this meandering herd of cats on message. Not an easy
> job, under the best of circumstances, but I'm confident we can get as
> much or more done with Craig.
>
> Ron
Unless someone has a serious objection (and I can't imagine whay
anyone would), I'll move you from (3) to (1) in the final update.
alvey
> (2) I vote for Bear Bottoms to be the new PWH webmaster.
> Zero ballots.
He's done better than expected there...
alvey
--
Ignarus alio nomen secundum bestia.
Lou
"alvey" <al...@play.com> wrote in message
news:ge1b29m0tb27$.oyccqgwmu667$.dlg@40tude.net...
He is just conflicted about voting for anyone who belongs to the "CULT"
of BearB Doll.
Lew
John Stubbings
Mr May, you still appear to be railroading your personal agenda.
We had a long discussion about this, and tackling the web site management
going forward. You should have discussed it then.
You shouldn't be trying to turn that around on just a vote anyway, there
should be a full discussion. Your behavior is fucking amazing, and fucking
disgraceful.
As far as I understand it there isn't going to be a web master, and Craig
agrees.
see Message-ID: <h0glit$kp0$1...@news.eternal-september.org>
> <grin>
>
> It's asylum-by-committee. Me & Omar, REM, Burnr, Stubbings, Ron May,
> Thip & Ron. In fact, there are plenty of padded cells left...
>
> -Craig
Craig, would you mind putting this matter to rest one way or another.
--
You gotta fight, for your right, to party...
The best of the best in Freeware
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/
Registered Linux User #485718
Ron May
> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 11:30:33 -0500, Ron May wrote:
>
> Mr May, you still appear to be railroading your personal agenda.
>
> We had a long discussion about this, and tackling the web site management
> going forward. You should have discussed it then.
>
> You shouldn't be trying to turn that around on just a vote anyway, there
> should be a full discussion. Your behavior is fucking amazing, and fucking
> disgraceful.
>
> As far as I understand it there isn't going to be a web master, and Craig
> agrees.
>
> see Message-ID: <h0glit$kp0$1...@news.eternal-september.org>
>
>> <grin>
>>
>> It's asylum-by-committee. Me & Omar, REM, Burnr, Stubbings, Ron May,
>> Thip & Ron. In fact, there are plenty of padded cells left...
>>
>> -Craig
>
> Craig, would you mind putting this matter to rest one way or another.
First, I applaud the countless hours and enormous effort you've devoted
for years to this newsgroup and the website. But no one made you King
or Craig either.
Second, there's no such thing as constructive criticism. That's an
oxymoron. A better term is constructive feedback.
I'm not good at coding HTML and I would need time to work out a link
to illustrate this, but I think the Pricelesswarehome.org home page
needs to be greatly streamlined and designed to serve the casual user
looking for good freeware. I don't think the home page should immerse
a first time or occasional visitor into the whole Pricelessware
history, background and culture. It could be much simpler.
What I would suggest is starting with the link for PL2007:
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/2007/about2007PL.php
... and make changes from there. Starting from the top:
* Delete everything above "the best of the best....." line, including
the links.
* Delete the "about the Pricelessware list" bar.
* Change the "Home" link to "Site information" and point it to the
content of the current home page. THAT page is okay for that purpose,
and could incorporate the "about the Pricelessware list" info here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20071220032300/www.pricelesswarehome.org/2...
... or have a link to it.
* Move the links to "alt.comp.freeware newsgroup search" and
"alt.comp.freeware.games newsgroup search" to the "Site information"
page. Keep the search box info on the right as is.
* From that point down to "Thanks for stopping by. Come back soon,"
reduce the text to something along these lines:
ABOUT THE PRICELESSWARE LIST
The Pricelessware slogan is "the best of the best in Freeware". The
Pricelessware List reflects the categories and programs as voted on by
alt.comp.freeware newsgroup participants who chose to share their
opinions. It is not a comprehensive list, but is designed to recognize
outstanding freeware. Most programs are well known but there are also
some excellent hard-to-find goodies on the list.
HOW TO FIND A PRICELESSWARE PROGRAM
There are navigation links at the top of each Pricelessware page. If
you know the name of the program go to the Program Index page and
click on a link to go directly to the program's description. If you
are looking for a particular type of program go to the Category Index
page and click on a link to go directly to the subcategory.
Use the Google search box at the top of each Pricelessware page to
search the Pricelessware site for specific words or phrases. You can
search the entire site or limit your search to the Pricelessware or
ACF directories.
===========
That would clean it up greatly for the first time or casual user and
provide what they need, yet still provide links to all the other
information in a less intrusive way.
Please take this as something to consider as one POV rather than
criticism.
Ron May
> You shouldn't be trying to turn that around on just a vote anyway, there
> should be a full discussion. Your behavior is fucking amazing, and fucking
> disgraceful.
Go back and read the thread, John. It's not "my agenda" but a
consensus of those who cared to comment that, while the TASKS can be
distributed, SOMEONE needs to have overall responsibility to move
things in a common direction. Craig is already doing that with the
"Signup Sheet".
There has to be a place where the buck stops. You can't have a dozen
different people pulling in a dozen different directions. There has
to be some form of leadership, no matter how lightly the reins are
held. Without it, the guaranteed result is chaos.
Bjorn S.
(Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:06:26 -0400):
(snipped lots of good comments/suggestions)
Agree with your suggestions and the "no king" issue.
--
All the best,
Bjorn S.
Craig
> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 11:30:33 -0500, Ron May wrote:
>
> Mr May, you still appear to be railroading your personal agenda.
>
> We had a long discussion about this, and tackling the web site management
> going forward. You should have discussed it then.
>
> You shouldn't be trying to turn that around on just a vote anyway, there
> should be a full discussion. Your behavior is fucking amazing, and fucking
> disgraceful.
>
> As far as I understand it there isn't going to be a web master, and Craig
> agrees.
>
> see Message-ID:<h0glit$kp0$1...@news.eternal-september.org>
>
>> <grin>
>>
>> Thip& Ron. In fact, there are plenty of padded cells left...
>>
>
> Craig, would you mind putting this matter to rest one way or another.
To JohnS:
If we cannot deal with one another civilly, we're screwed. "Railroads,
personal agendas, disgraceful" will get us as far as the peanut gallery
wants: Not very. Stubbings, adjust your meds or pull that stick out of
your ass or simply unbunch your panties. Whatever it takes. To the
extent that we can promote cooperation and avoid wanton vilification,
we'll move forward. [Btw, ask me about the time I accused Vince of
unilateral censorship. I know what I'm talking about here.]
-------------------
To ACF participants in PWH:
I made the mistake of submitting my name to vote for "webmaster."
It was a mistake, a brainfart, because we'd just spent a couple weeks
outlining a "more the merrier" approach to running PWH and PL: A move I
wholly endorse. In reality, I am one admin volunteer among three and we
can use more.
Therefore, I /withdraw/ my name for consideration as webmaster because
our organization doesn't *have* a webmaster. We really, really need to
give this new structure a try.
I apologize for the confusion I caused in this matter.
thx for listening & please consider signing up for something below,
-Craig
=======================================================
Dis Organization's Chart:
1. administrative tasks
* (pay the rent/domain fees, answer emails etc.) (one or more
volunteers) (REM, Burnr, Craig)
* (mailman (one or more volunteers) (Craig)
2. web site/web page maintainence tasks (essential updates/repairs,
backups etc.) (one or more volunteers) (REM, Craig)
3. presentation (graphics/navigation/accessibility etc. tasks) (one or
more volunteers, one point person)
4 technical (functional/coding tasks) (one or more volunteers, one point
person) (John Stubbings)
5. web page/content tasks (multiple teams of one or more volunteers, one
point person for each team)
6. floating/ronin (would like to do something but either unsure of what
or are open to being assigned or willing to take what's "orphaned")
(REM, Craig)
*** PL2009
* nominations (one or more volunteers, one point person)
(Ron May, Thip)
* final list (one or more volunteers, one point person)
(Ron May, Thip)
* PL CD (one or more volunteers, one point person)
* cumulative lists (one or more volunteers, one point person)
* PL CD "burners" (one or more volunteers) (Ron)
*** PL2008 (one or more volunteers, one point person) (maintainence,
archiving)
*** acf pages
* About alt.comp.freeware (one or more volunteers, one point
person)(Omar)
* About the Pricelessware web site (one or more volunteers, one point
person) (Omar)
* Ware Glossary (one or more volunteers, one point person) (Note:
content/definitions are determined through newgroup discussions)
* Posting Tips (one or more volunteers, one point person)
* Search Tips (one or more volunteers, one point person)
* Links (one or more volunteers, one point person)
* Alert: Theft and Deception at HunterSoft (one or more volunteers, one
point person)
* acf Members Sites (one or more volunteers, one point person)(Omar)
* acf Where (one or more volunteers, one point person)
* Freeware Wish List (one or more volunteers, one point person)
* Webware (one or more volunteers, one point person)
* acf program info pages (one or more volunteers, one point person)
John Stubbings
> On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:41:10 +0100, John Stubbings
> <anna.riceD...@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>> You shouldn't be trying to turn that around on just a vote anyway, there
>> should be a full discussion. Your behavior is fucking amazing, and fucking
>> disgraceful.
>
> Go back and read the thread, John. It's not "my agenda" but a
> consensus of those who cared to comment that, while the TASKS can be
> distributed, SOMEONE needs to have overall responsibility to move
> things in a common direction. Craig is already doing that with the
> "Signup Sheet".
>
> There has to be a place where the buck stops. You can't have a dozen
> different people pulling in a dozen different directions. There has
> to be some form of leadership, no matter how lightly the reins are
> held. Without it, the guaranteed result is chaos.
Then why didn't you discuss that when Susan and I had the discussion on the
way forward?
Wasn't me, isn't me railroading my ideas.
Ron May
wrote:
> Ron May wrote in <h0hdkv$o2l$1...@news.gabrix.ath.cx>
> (Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:06:26 -0400):
>
> (snipped lots of good comments/suggestions)
>
> Agree with your suggestions and the "no king" issue.
You responded to a forgery. Check my real headers. I post through
Sunsite in ACF:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.185.214.12
X-Trace: news.sunsite.dk
The forger posted through Gabrix:
Message-ID: <h0hdkv$o2l$1...@news.gabrix.ath.cx>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.gabrix.ath.cx
X-Trace: news.gabrix.ath.cx 1244412383 24661 10.0.0.3 (7 Jun 2009
22:06:23 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@gabrix.ath.cx
Virtually everything posted through the above server (and several
others) is either a forgery or a sock puppet.
It's of little consequence to me. I filter them out, but only comment
if/when someone replies to a forgery. Ignore them.
Ron May
> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 11:30:33 -0500, Ron May wrote:
>
>> (2) I vote for Bear Bottoms to be the new PWH webmaster. Zero ballots.
>
> Too high on his ADHD drugs to vote for himself?
You responded to a forgery. Check my real headers. I post through
Sunsite in ACF:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.185.214.12
X-Trace: news.sunsite.dk
The forger posted through Gabrix:
Message-ID: <h0hdkv$o2l$1...@news.gabrix.ath.cx>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.gabrix.ath.cx
X-Trace: news.gabrix.ath.cx 1244412383 24661 10.0.0.3 (7 Jun 2009
22:06:23 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@gabrix.ath.cx
Virtually everything posted through the above server (and several
others) is either a forgery or a sock puppet.
It's of little consequence to me. I filter them out, but only comment
if/when someone replies to a forgery. Ignore them.
Ron May
> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:08:45 -0400, Lubow <Lu...@nym.borked.net> wrote:
>
>> snip bg forge <
>
>> My advice to Susan would be "Do it the way you want and ignore
>> anything that you don't like."
>>
>> She does all the work, so IMO she gets to make *all* the decisions
>> about how, when, where and why it's done. She can accept or ignore
>> advice and complaints as she sees fit. If anyone doesn't like the way
>> she does it, that's too bad for them.
>
> you are replying to a forgery
I make liberal use of a kill file and it makes an enormous difference in
the readability of newsgroup. Unfortunately, the sock puppetry has
reached insane levels of late. A kill file alone doesn't do the job
when some asshole posts a dozen messages in an hour under a half dozen
different nyms. There are still "patterns" that make such tactics easy
to spot and allow me to delete the crap unread, but the MOST effective
strategy is *NOT* the way you handled this. Simply ignore them and not
respond at all.
In reality, there are maybe ten, possibly twelve "idiots and trolls and
jerks" who, for whatever reason, are incurably infected with multiple
personality disorder. When the good guys in this newsgroup respond to
the efforts of these few who insist on dumping garbage and sewage all
over what used to be a pretty nice neighborhood, all it does is
increase the motivation for bad behavior. DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
THREADS!!
Think about it. What can possibly be gained by debating a sock puppet?
The mere fact that someone has to resort to sock puppetry in the first
place is proof positive that they're a loser to begin with. Hit the
delete key and move on. You'll make it so much better for everyone
else. Don't reward outrageous behavior. Off my whitelist of good guys
you go, Max. :(
Franklin
<news:h0hdkv$o2l$1...@news.gabrix.ath.cx>:
> On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:41:10 +0100, John Stubbings wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 11:30:33 -0500, Ron May wrote:
>>
>> Mr May, you still appear to be railroading your personal agenda.
>>
>> We had a long discussion about this, and tackling the web site
>> management going forward. You should have discussed it then.
>>
>> You shouldn't be trying to turn that around on just a vote anyway,
>> there should be a full discussion. Your behavior is fucking
>> amazing, and fucking disgraceful.
>>
>> As far as I understand it there isn't going to be a web master, and
>> Craig agrees.
>>
>> see Message-ID: <h0glit$kp0$1...@news.eternal-september.org>
>>
>>> <grin>
>>>
>>> It's asylum-by-committee. Me & Omar, REM, Burnr, Stubbings, Ron
>>> May, Thip & Ron. In fact, there are plenty of padded cells
>>> left...
>>>
>>> -Craig
>>
>> Craig, would you mind putting this matter to rest one way or
>> another.
>
> First, I applaud the countless hours and enormous effort you've
> devoted for years to this newsgroup and the website. But no one made
> you King or Craig either.
>
> Second, there's no such thing as constructive criticism. That's an
> oxymoron. A better term is constructive feedback.
>
> I'm not good at coding HTML and I would need time to work out a link
> to illustrate this, [snip]
I haven't followed all the twists and turns but AIUI Susan had
proposed a work assignment plan (if that's the term) which was the
result of some earlier discussions and then this was finalized in a
short thread.
Craig took issue with that and pointed out the consultation had been
limited. (I pointed out the short thread had few posts).
Ron started his poll in which only Craig and Bottoms were candidates
plus an option for further discussion. I was under the impression that
the results of the poll were going to be meshed with a list of other
people assigned to various tasks. Or was it that ... if a voter
didn't want to elect Craig or Bottoms outright then a vote for more
discussion was a vote for a wider field of candidates. Or something
like that.
I voted for more discussion because the impression I got was that
Craig had some reservations about being forward. Anyway, Ron's poll
is a one-horse race and that might be hard to defend convincingly
later on.
All in all I'm not exactly sure what the "offical" plan is. If there
is one.
There have been several attempts (eg. Susan) and splinter attempts.
Some counter-attempts (eg. Ron) and some spoiling attempts (eg.
Hummingbird).
Now there s thispoll, I'm not sure how that changes the way forward
is. Wasn't there a page at PWH which had some details of the plan so
far or of people assigned to tasks?
Ron May
> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 11:30:33 -0500, Ron May wrote:
>
>> (2) I vote for Bear Bottoms to be the new PWH webmaster. Zero ballots.
>
> Too high on his ADHD drugs to vote for himself?
You responded to a forgery. Check my real headers. I post through
Sunsite in ACF:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.185.214.12
X-Trace: news.sunsite.dk
The forger posted through Gabrix:
Message-ID: <h0hdkv$o2l$1...@news.gabrix.ath.cx>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.gabrix.ath.cx
X-Trace: news.gabrix.ath.cx 1244412383 24661 10.0.0.3 (7 Jun 2009
22:06:23 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: use...@gabrix.ath.cx
Virtually everything posted through the above server (and several
others) is either a forgery or a sock puppet.
It's of little consequence to me. I filter them out, but only comment
if/when someone replies to a forgery. Ignore them.
Ron May
> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 17:13:12 -0500, Ron May wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:41:10 +0100, John Stubbings
>> <anna.riceD...@virgin.net> wrote:
>>
>>> You shouldn't be trying to turn that around on just a vote anyway, there
>>> should be a full discussion. Your behavior is fucking amazing, and fucking
>>> disgraceful.
>>
>> Go back and read the thread, John. It's not "my agenda" but a
>> consensus of those who cared to comment that, while the TASKS can be
>> distributed, SOMEONE needs to have overall responsibility to move
>> things in a common direction. Craig is already doing that with the
>> "Signup Sheet".
>>
>> There has to be a place where the buck stops. You can't have a dozen
>> different people pulling in a dozen different directions. There has
>> to be some form of leadership, no matter how lightly the reins are
>> held. Without it, the guaranteed result is chaos.
>
> Then why didn't you discuss that when Susan and I had the discussion on the
> way forward?
>
> Wasn't me, isn't me railroading my ideas.
My basic proposal is to streamline the home page to the bare
essentials, cut the background text dramatically, and have the "Site
information" link point to another page with all the details. I really
don't like where we are right now. It's my duty to say so.
It just seems more user friendly for the casual user.
(BTW, my example doesn't reflect it, but the present "Advanced Site
Search" box and buttons should be kept as is.)
If this is railroading, I call it discussion. If you see things
differently, then opt out. Threatening and name calling is troll
behavior. You will find yourself off my whitelist.
Ron May
Yes, there is but this thread supersedes it.
Max Wachtel
would be fun to share this little dity with the class:
>On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:25:48 -0400, Max Wachtel wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:08:45 -0400, Lubow <Lu...@nym.borked.net>
>>wrote:
>>> snip bg forge <
>>
>>> My advice to Susan would be "Do it the way you want and ignore
>>> anything that you don't like."
>>>
>>> She does all the work, so IMO she gets to make all the decisions
>>> about how, when, where and why it's done. She can accept or
>>>ignore advice and complaints as she sees fit. If anyone doesn't
>>>like the way she does it, that's too bad for them.
>>
>> you are replying to a forgery
>
>I make liberal use of a kill file and it makes an enormous difference
>in the readability of newsgroup. Unfortunately, the sock puppetry has
>reached insane levels of late. A kill file alone doesn't do the job
>when some asshole posts a dozen messages in an hour under a half dozen
>different nyms. There are still "patterns" that make such tactics
>easy to spot and allow me to delete the crap unread, but the MOST
>effective strategy is NOT the way you handled this. Simply ignore
>them and not respond at all.
>
>In reality, there are maybe ten, possibly twelve "idiots and trolls
>and jerks" who, for whatever reason, are incurably infected with
>multiple personality disorder. When the good guys in this newsgroup
>respond to the efforts of these few who insist on dumping garbage and
>sewage all over what used to be a pretty nice neighborhood, all it
>does is increase the motivation for bad behavior. DO NOT FEED THE
>TROLL THREADS!!
>
>Think about it. What can possibly be gained by debating a sock
>puppet? The mere fact that someone has to resort to sock puppetry in
>the first place is proof positive that they're a loser to begin with.
>Hit the delete key and move on. You'll make it so much better for
>everyone else. Don't reward outrageous behavior. Off my whitelist
>of good guys you go, Max. :(
oh well Ron, do what you feel is right, it is hard to tell the good
guys from the bad. Hell I didn't look at your headers either so I could
be responding to a sock this time too.
Max Wachtel
would be fun to share this little dity with the class:
>On 07 Jun 2009 17:02:09 GMT, Gordon Darling wrote:
>
>> Too high on his ADHD drugs to vote for himself?
>
>You responded to a forgery.
so you say "you responded to a forgery" and I said the same thing to
Lubow and you stated that you will "remove me from your whitelist"
WTF???
Ron May
<maxwa...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> oh well Ron, do what you feel is right, it is hard to tell the good
> guys from the bad. Hell I didn't look at your headers either so I could
> be responding to a sock this time too.
There are several forgeries of my posts using gabrix and solani.
I only post to ACF through:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.185.214.12
X-Trace: news.sunsite.dk
Anything posted through other servers are forgeries.
Ron May
wrote:
> Therefore, I /withdraw/ my name for consideration as webmaster because
> our organization doesn't *have* a webmaster. We really, really need to
> give this new structure a try.
If you don't like the title "webmaster" then change it to something
else, but I would suggest to you that the PWH site or any similar
project will descend into rudderless chaos without someone to steer
the course and direct the effort. Someone HAS to accept leadership
responsibility or no decisions get made and little or nothing gets
done.
Ron May
<maxwa...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> so you say "you responded to a forgery" and I said the same thing to
> Lubow and you stated that you will "remove me from your whitelist"
> WTF???
Max, I never said that. Any post ALLEGEDLY made by me to ACF that is
not posted through:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.185.214.12
X-Trace: news.sunsite.dk
is a forgery.
Max Wachtel
>On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 23:00:27 +0000 (UTC), "Max Wachtel"
><maxwa...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>
>> oh well Ron, do what you feel is right, it is hard to tell the good
>> guys from the bad. Hell I didn't look at your headers either so I
>>could be responding to a sock this time too.
>
>There are several forgeries of my posts using gabrix and solani.
>
>I only post to ACF through:
>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.185.214.12
>X-Trace: news.sunsite.dk
>
>Anything posted through other servers are forgeries.
is there anything that can be done? these folks are using remailers. I
don't know much about using remailers. Do remailers use accounts that
can be cancelled because of abuse and if so, do they cancel them?
Max Wachtel
>On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 23:15:47 +0000 (UTC), "Max Wachtel"
><maxwa...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>
>> so you say "you responded to a forgery" and I said the same thing
>>to Lubow and you stated that you will "remove me from your
>>whitelist" WTF???
>
>Max, I never said that. Any post ALLEGEDLY made by me to ACF that is
>not posted through:
>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.185.214.12
>X-Trace: news.sunsite.dk
>
>is a forgery.
thanks for that-I have set my newsreader to show all headers now!!
Franklin
<news:h0hmbl...@aracari.127.0.0.1>:
> 'John Stubbings' wrote thus:
>
>>On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 17:13:12 -0500, Ron May wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:41:10 +0100, John Stubbings
>>> <anna.riceD...@virgin.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You shouldn't be trying to turn that around on just a vote
>>>> anyway, there should be a full discussion. Your behavior is
>>>> fucking amazing, and fucking disgraceful.
>>>
>>> Go back and read the thread, John. It's not "my agenda" but a
>>> consensus of those who cared to comment that, while the TASKS can
>>> be distributed, SOMEONE needs to have overall responsibility to
>>> move things in a common direction. Craig is already doing that
>>> with the "Signup Sheet".
>>>
>>> There has to be a place where the buck stops. You can't have a
>>> dozen different people pulling in a dozen different directions.
>>> There has to be some form of leadership, no matter how lightly the
>>> reins are held. Without it, the guaranteed result is chaos.
>>
>>Then why didn't you discuss that when Susan and I had the discussion
>>on the way forward?
>>
>>Wasn't me, isn't me railroading my ideas.
>
>
> You see Stubbings, I told you that your idea of a distributed
> website responsibility was crap. And it is, not that I care.
>
> Now your own PWH uber-grupen fuhrer: Ron May is saying so.
> He must have spent the weekend polishing his jackboots...
>
> It's amazing that REM and so many cultists went along with it,
> all nodding when told to do so. "Amateurs" comes to mind.
>
> Take my advice, get out of it...
Hummingbird's siren song ....
starts with a hostile statement ("is crap")
is followed by hostile parody ("fuhrer")
finishes with a plea ("get out")
It's no surprise such a plea gets ignored.
Zero out of ten for persuasion skills.
Ron May
<maxwa...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> is there anything that can be done? these folks are using remailers. I
> don't know much about using remailers. Do remailers use accounts that
> can be cancelled because of abuse and if so, do they cancel them?
You can flag or delete messages that come through anonymous remailers.
Whether abuse reports are worthwhile remains to be seen.
John Stubbings
> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:20:47 -0700, Craig <netbu...@REMOVEgmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Therefore, I /withdraw/ my name for consideration as webmaster because
>> our organization doesn't *have* a webmaster. We really, really need to
>> give this new structure a try.
>
> If you don't like the title "webmaster" then change it to something
> else, but I would suggest to you that the PWH site or any similar
> project will descend into rudderless chaos without someone to steer
> the course and direct the effort. Someone HAS to accept leadership
> responsibility or no decisions get made and little or nothing gets
> done.
>
That's rubbish. Things are getting done. You just cannot accept the "idea".
People will take leadership roles as and when. They are. They just aren't
set in stone. You carry on Ron. So be it. Not my doing.
John Stubbings
> You see Stubbings, I told you that your idea of a distributed
> website responsibility was crap. And it is, not that I care.
>
> Now your own PWH uber-grupen fuhrer: Ron May is saying so.
> He must have spent the weekend polishing his jackboots...
>
> It's amazing that REM and so many cultists went along with it,
> all nodding when told to do so. "Amateurs" comes to mind.
>
> Take my advice, get out of it...
Hummy, I realise you have never had a creative thought of any magnitude in
your entire existence.
The world is full of your ilk, negative, how I hate that, but I really
don't give up that easy.
I have acted honorably throughout. I have spoken consistently throughout.
What's to regret?
Life to you must seem like a rainy day, every day.
Ron May
<anna.riceD...@virgin.net> wrote:
> Then why didn't you discuss that when Susan and I had the discussion on the
> way forward?
Actually, I did, John, suggesting several times that you and Susan
were getting bogged down in details. I csn point to the MessageIDs if
you need me to, but I'm sure you'll recall my "cart" and "horse"
analogy.
Max Wechtel
> On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 00:03:02 +0000 (UTC), "Max Wachtel"
> <maxwa...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>
>> is there anything that can be done? these folks are using remailers. I
>> don't know much about using remailers. Do remailers use accounts that
>> can be cancelled because of abuse and if so, do they cancel them?
>
> You can flag or delete messages that come through anonymous remailers.
> Whether abuse reports are worthwhile remains to be seen.
it's not worth it to me anymore between the bichin', trolls and carry
on. Thanks, Ron but I'm out.
Ron May
> On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:35:00 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>
>> You see Stubbings, I told you that your idea of a distributed
>> website responsibility was crap. And it is, not that I care.
>>
>> Now your own PWH uber-grupen fuhrer: Ron May is saying so.
>> He must have spent the weekend polishing his jackboots...
>>
>> It's amazing that REM and so many cultists went along with it,
>> all nodding when told to do so. "Amateurs" comes to mind.
>>
>> Take my advice, get out of it...
>
> Hummy, I realise you have never had a creative thought of any magnitude in
> your entire existence.
>
> The world is full of your ilk, negative, how I hate that, but I really
> don't give up that easy.
>
> I have acted honorably throughout. I have spoken consistently throughout.
> What's to regret?
>
> Life to you must seem like a rainy day, every day.
Maybe one day you will learn. Until then, you are blacklisted.
Ron May
<maxwa...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> thanks for that-I have set my newsreader to show all headers now!!
No problem. I bit on at least one "John Corliss" forgery when he was
the target a while back. The forgeries are pretty crude and easy to
spot once you know what to look for.
Ron May
> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 18:44:00 -0500, Ron May wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:20:47 -0700, Craig <netbu...@REMOVEgmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Therefore, I /withdraw/ my name for consideration as webmaster because
>>> our organization doesn't *have* a webmaster. We really, really need to
>>> give this new structure a try.
>>
>> If you don't like the title "webmaster" then change it to something
>> else, but I would suggest to you that the PWH site or any similar
>> project will descend into rudderless chaos without someone to steer
>> the course and direct the effort. Someone HAS to accept leadership
>> responsibility or no decisions get made and little or nothing gets
>> done.
>>
>
> That's rubbish. Things are getting done. You just cannot accept the "idea".
> People will take leadership roles as and when. They are. They just aren't
> set in stone. You carry on Ron. So be it. Not my doing.
It's no surprise to any of us to see you quit again. I think, and so do
the rest, that it would be best for you and all of us if you moved on.
Thanks, John, maybe another time.
Franklin
> In <g7jo25l71g73de22f...@4ax.com> Ron May aka
> may...@hotmail.com thought it would be fun to share this little dity
> with the class:
>
>>On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 23:00:27 +0000 (UTC), "Max Wachtel"
>><maxwa...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>
>>> oh well Ron, do what you feel is right, it is hard to tell the
>>> good guys from the bad. Hell I didn't look at your headers either
>>> so I could be responding to a sock this time too.
>>
>> There are several forgeries of my posts using gabrix and solani.
>> I only post to ACF through:
>> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.185.214.12 X-Trace: news.sunsite.dk
>> Anything posted through other servers are forgeries.
>
> is there anything that can be done? these folks are using remailers.
> I don't know much about using remailers. Do remailers use accounts
> that can be cancelled because of abuse and if so, do they cancel
> them?
Max, there's a lot of Ron May forgeries. They aim to undermine Ron's
intentions.
Who would spend the time to make such good forgeries?
John Stubbings
> On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 23:26:16 +0100, John Stubbings
> <anna.riceD...@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>> Then why didn't you discuss that when Susan and I had the discussion on the
>> way forward?
>
> Actually, I did, John, suggesting several times that you and Susan
> were getting bogged down in details. I csn point to the MessageIDs if
> you need me to, but I'm sure you'll recall my "cart" and "horse"
> analogy.
At the end of the day there was a process. The way forward wasn't decided
unilaterally, certainly not by me. This thread is just that. Frankly if PWH
is truly going to be "inclusive" then things should be done properly.
Otherwise, just leave PWH open to all the criticism that has been levelled
at it.
I'm saying no more for now. I'm bored with being the fall guy.
Max Wachtel
>On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 00:10:18 +0000 (UTC), "Max Wachtel"
><maxwa...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>
>> thanks for that-I have set my newsreader to show all headers now!!
>
>No problem. I bit on at least one "John Corliss" forgery when he was
>the target a while back. The forgeries are pretty crude and easy to
>spot once you know what to look for.
someone just tried to forge me!
Ron May
> In <5dmo25519mjie7gss...@4ax.com> Ron May aka
> may...@hotmail.com thought it would be fun to share this
>little dity with the class:
>
>>On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 00:10:18 +0000 (UTC), "Max Wachtel"
>><maxwa...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>
>>> thanks for that-I have set my newsreader to show all
>>> headers now!!
>>
>>No problem. I bit on at least one "John Corliss" forgery
>>when he was the target a while back. The forgeries are
>>pretty crude and easy to spot once you know what to look
>>for.
>
> someone just tried to forge me!
PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLLS! You are making it worse!
Please shut up!!! Just ignore them.
Craig
> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:20:47 -0700, Craig<netbu...@REMOVEgmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Therefore, I /withdraw/ my name for consideration as webmaster because
>> our organization doesn't *have* a webmaster. We really, really need to
>> give this new structure a try.
>
> If you don't like the title "webmaster" then change it to something
> else, but I would suggest to you that the PWH site or any similar
> project will descend into rudderless chaos without someone to steer
> the course and direct the effort. Someone HAS to accept leadership
> responsibility or no decisions get made and little or nothing gets
> done.
Stuff's getting done. I submit that the Sturm und Drang we're
experiencing right now is normal for a transition period. Let's let it
play out for a bit. It isn't a life-or-death scenario so, we'll be able
to recover.
I understand your skepticism. I have my own about this process but,
give it a spin anyway. Let's try it.
-Craig
Ron
> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 19:11:49 -0500, Ron May wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 00:03:02 +0000 (UTC), "Max Wachtel"
>> <maxwa...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>
>>> is there anything that can be done? these folks are using remailers. I
>>> don't know much about using remailers. Do remailers use accounts that
>>> can be cancelled because of abuse and if so, do they cancel them?
>> You can flag or delete messages that come through anonymous remailers.
>> Whether abuse reports are worthwhile remains to be seen.
> it's not worth it to me anymore between the bichin', trolls and carry
> on. Thanks, Ron but I'm out.
>
>
I'm not 100% sure if that's your post, Max, but I encourage you to
reconsider.
Istm, the main purpose of all the forgers and socks is to completely
disrupt the PWH process. There are a few (some very well-known) who
would love to see it all crash and burn. I think they're all bullies,
and have no intention to get so frustrated as to throw in the towel.
If you're determined to abstain, then thank you for your previous
efforts. The noise level *has* been startling, to say the least. Even
usually thoughtful folks have been butting heads because of it all.
With kind regards,
Ron
Max Wachtel
rmoo...@ix.netcom.com thought it would be fun to share this little
ditty with the class:
>Max Wechtel wrote:
>>On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 19:11:49 -0500, Ron May wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 00:03:02 +0000 (UTC), "Max Wachtel"
>>><maxwa...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>is there anything that can be done? these folks are using
>>>>remailers. I don't know much about using remailers. Do
>>>>remailers use accounts that can be cancelled because of abuse
>>>>and if so, do they cancel them?
>>>You can flag or delete messages that come through anonymous
>>>remailers. Whether abuse reports are worthwhile remains to be
>>>seen.
>>it's not worth it to me anymore between the bichin', trolls and
>>carry on. Thanks, Ron but I'm out.
>>
>>
>
>I'm not 100% sure if that's your post, Max, but I encourage you to
>reconsider.
>
>Istm, the main purpose of all the forgers and socks is to completely
>disrupt the PWH process. There are a few (some very well-known) who
>would love to see it all crash and burn. I think they're all bullies,
>and have no intention to get so frustrated as to throw in the towel.
>
>If you're determined to abstain, then thank you for your previous
>efforts. The noise level has been startling, to say the least. Even
>usually thoughtful folks have been butting heads because of it all.
>
>With kind regards,
>
>Ron
no, that wasn't me (it spelled my name wrong). I am going to keep
posting about my favorite free software. I know of two posters that I
will definitely not be replying to. I may get sucked in from time to
time but I will be checking out headers closer than before so that it
does not happen often.
Ron May
For the record, the final webmaster vote tally is as follows:
(1) I vote for Craig to be the new PWH webmaster.
Eleven ballots: Ron May, POKO, Vegard Krog Petersen, Lew, REM, Larry
Sabo, Thip, Bjorn S., F.Reeware, (*)Ron and Max Wachtel.
(2) I vote for Bear Bottoms to be the new PWH webmaster.
Zero ballots.
(3) I think more discussion is needed and I do not wish to cast a vote
for either as webmaster at the present time.
Five ballors: Craig, miskairal, Ranrad, (**)Kabouter Luc and
(***)Franklin.
Legend:
(*) Changed ballot from (3) to (1).
(**) ACF participation could not be confirmed.
(***) Only wrote "I think more discussion is needed".
Elsewhere in this thread, Craig wrote:
>> Therefore, I /withdraw/ my name for consideration as webmaster because
>> our organization doesn't *have* a webmaster. We really, really need to
>> give this new structure a try.
Ron May
wrote:
> Stuff's getting done. I submit that the Sturm und Drang we're
> experiencing right now is normal for a transition period. Let's let it
> play out for a bit. It isn't a life-or-death scenario so, we'll be able
> to recover.
>
> I understand your skepticism. I have my own about this process but,
> give it a spin anyway. Let's try it.
It's your call. You have a vote of confidence and support for the
volunteer approach, and I would submit you're already exercising a
leadership role now anyway. A vacuum demands to be filled. It's
unavoidable. <g>
John Stubbings
Hummy, I'm going to call you Goebbels again until you stop the lies about
me forging, and the crap about sockpuppetting albeit I do use two
alternative nyms with the word 'Pooh' in.
If you want to talk to me do so, but you started the forgery lies stuff,
your it's your responsibility to end it.
> 'John Stubbings' wrote thus:
>
>>On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:35:00 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>>
>>> You see Stubbings, I told you that your idea of a distributed
>>> website responsibility was crap. And it is, not that I care.
>>>
>>> Now your own PWH uber-grupen fuhrer: Ron May is saying so.
>>> He must have spent the weekend polishing his jackboots...
>>>
>>> It's amazing that REM and so many cultists went along with it,
>>> all nodding when told to do so. "Amateurs" comes to mind.
>>>
>>> Take my advice, get out of it...
>
>
>>I have acted honorably throughout.
>
> I believe you - but only since you stated unequivocally that you
> have no agenda to become the pricelessware webmaster if/when
> the distributed webmaster idea went south. But it therefore
> makes the idea poor in its own right.
>
> Such a structure cannot really work for long due to confusions,
> especially with people all over the world. They will have
> different design/layout styles and different coding skills. And it
> certainly should not be necessary for a website that *should be*
> quite small.
Hummy, get this into your thick skull. This isn't about creating a little
web site, run by a new cult, for me anyway.
Just because you cannot see the value in people in this group working
together on something instead of squabbling, my hope was that many would
see the benefits as self evident.
I was trying to create a process where as many people as possible were
*included* and *involved*, your extensive management experience in cost
cutting is just a poor fit for this. I'm sorry, but here's your cards, I'm
going to have to let you go.
Franklin
<news:h0hl93$ipo$1...@news.eternal-september.org>:
> On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:35:00 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>
>> You see Stubbings, I told you that your idea of a distributed
>> website responsibility was crap. And it is, not that I care.
>>
>> Now your own PWH uber-grupen fuhrer: Ron May is saying so.
>> He must have spent the weekend polishing his jackboots...
>>
>> It's amazing that REM and so many cultists went along with it,
>> all nodding when told to do so. "Amateurs" comes to mind.
>>
>> Take my advice, get out of it...
>
> Hummy, I realise you have never had a creative thought of any
> magnitude in your entire existence.
>
> The world is full of your ilk, negative, how I hate that, but I
> really don't give up that easy.
>
> I have acted honorably throughout. I have spoken consistently
> throughout. What's to regret?
>
> Life to you must seem like a rainy day, every day.
John, I think you just put your finger on one of Hummingbird's least
desirable traits: his negativity.
Nothing seems good enough for Hummingbird/Chris.
He sees everything as wrong (unless you do it his way although when
his approach fails it's because of what *others* did incorrectly).
His general negative attitude is also present in his posts to the
political newsgroups where he is a nay-sayer, criticiser, doom-monger,
moaner, destroyer. He never tries to build or improve. He's always on
the outside of a team effort.
Maybe that's the sort of person he is. Negative in real life as well
as online.
Move on. Let him go. You can't ever please someone who *tries* to be
miserable. I guess such people would actually blame *you* for their
own negative attitude, thoughts, feelings or actions. They just don't
want to take responsibility for how they are. Problems are always
someone else's fault.
Franklin
<news:h0iog6...@aracari.127.0.0.1>:
> [getbymid] 'Ron <rmoo...@ix.netcom.com>' wrote thus:
>
> Ron, your IP addresses are still being caught in my SPAM filters
> for having posted spam on this newsgroup or other newsgroups in
> the past (commercial or private spam).
>
> Are you a part-time spammer? This is the 3rd time I've asked.
>
> _____________________________________________________
>
Hummingbird, that's a dumb attempt at trolling.
Do you honestly expect Ron to answer?
You're just trying to entrap him.
Bjorn S.
(Sun, 07 Jun 2009 17:31:27 -0500):
>You responded to a forgery. Check my real headers. I post through
>Sunsite in ACF:
Noted, thanks.
--
All the best,
Bjorn S.
John Stubbings
> It's about them making money. Maybe you're at it too. Yes?
Hummy, making money is a game to me. Give me credit for playing in a higher
league than pushing $5 Cd's...
...as for Cameron changing the world, I doubt it. I've heard it all before.
Besides, it will make shit all difference to my life whoever wins.
John Corliss
> Max Wechtel wrote:
>> Ron May wrote:
>>> Max Wachtel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> is there anything that can be done? these folks are using remailers. I
>>>> don't know much about using remailers. Do remailers use accounts that
>>>> can be cancelled because of abuse and if so, do they cancel them?
>>> You can flag or delete messages that come through anonymous remailers.
>>> Whether abuse reports are worthwhile remains to be seen.
>> it's not worth it to me anymore between the bichin', trolls and carry
>> on. Thanks, Ron but I'm out.
>
> I'm not 100% sure if that's your post, Max, but I encourage you to
> reconsider.
>
> Istm, the main purpose of all the forgers and socks is to completely
> disrupt the PWH process. There are a few (some very well-known) who
> would love to see it all crash and burn. I think they're all bullies,
> and have no intention to get so frustrated as to throw in the towel.
>
> If you're determined to abstain, then thank you for your previous
> efforts. The noise level *has* been startling, to say the least. Even
> usually thoughtful folks have been butting heads because of it all.
Ron, I sincerely hope you're not including me in the group of people who
want to disrupt the PWH process. I'm simply waiting for Susan to go away
(if she ever does, and I suspect she won't.)
And by the way, it saddens me to see how the emphasis in this group has
shifted away from making the *PRICELESSWARE LIST* to worrying about the
monstrosity that Bugher has created on the PWH site.
If she was bent on disrupting the creation of the PWL, she couldn't have
done a better job than setting up the monstrosity that exists at that
location, and then dragging the discussion of who does what and when and
to whom regarding that fricking mess on and on and on and on etc.
Far from wanting the PWH process to be disrupted, want to see it over
and done with (as in completed) so that the group can move on and create
the PW list.
Seems to me that everybody's putting the cart before the horse. The PWH
site isn't shit without a current list.
--
John Corliss BS206. I use nFilter to block all Google Groups posts
because of Googlespam. No ad, cd, commercial, cripple, demo, dotnet,
nag, share, spy, time-limited, trial or web wares OR warez for me, please.
2008 Pricelessware list: http://www.geocities.com/rtd3ws/08PWlist.html
badgolferman
It appears I have become popular enough to become a target of forgery
by our resident mole.
--------------------------------------
>From: "badgolferman" <"<REMOVETHISbadgolferman"@gmail.com>>
>Subject: Re: [PWH] New Webmaster Selection - Status Report
>Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 12:51:17 -0400
>Message-ID: <h0gr63$7in$1...@news.gabrix.ath.cx>
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>newsfeed5.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!news.stack.nl!news.gabrix.ath.cx!not-f
>or-mail Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware Organization: Mixmin
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>2009 16:51:15 +0000 (UTC) X-User-ID:
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>alt.comp.freeware:301956
David W
> 2. is it because some of those involved actually make money
> out of producing the CDs and selling them to their customers,
> family, friends, local PC clubs etc etc? Very likely IMV. A CD
> containing 700MB of free s/w, described as "best of the best"
> and chosen by ACF people must have a value to huge numbers of
> low-skilled users. No? How much would you say? $5, $10, $15
> a shot?
>
> We already know that many people on this newsgroup are involved
> in various ways in system support at corporate or social level.
> Having a bunch of PL CDs in their pocket is a nice way of earning
> a few extra tax-free dollars. We also know a guy who appeared on
> ACF a while back who does exactly that: sells the CDs at garage
> sales and to friends etc to make extra money.
>
> That is the only explanation that would justify (in their minds)
> the huge amount of selfish disruption and bad blood which PWH
> people cause on ACF. It's about them making money. Maybe you're
> at it too. Yes?
I have to admit that I have often thought the same thing about John.
Ever since his invention failed, he's been acting like his life is in
the crapper.
I neither trust that Bottoms interests in PWH are altruistic since he
sells support for freeware. It is entirely possible he uses Jacqueline
Bottoms favor at the school to capture undeserved fees for simplistic
assistance with free software.
--
http://www.farkie.com/
REM
> "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>It appears I have become popular enough to become a target of forgery
>by our resident mole.
Thanks for the info, but I think that we all know that when someone
like you is completely out of character it is a forgery.
:)
David W
> On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:19:29 +0100, [Goebbels] hummingbird wrote:
>
>> It's about them making money. Maybe you're at it too. Yes?
>
> Hummy, making money is a game to me. Give me credit for playing in a higher
> league than pushing $5 Cd's...
Ten $25 CDs a month pays for a lot of cat food, Jesus-John. Don't be
smug about the possibilities.
--
http://www.farkie.com/
David W
> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 19:20:31 -0500, Ron May wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 23:26:16 +0100, John Stubbings
>> <anna.riceD...@virgin.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Then why didn't you discuss that when Susan and I had the discussion on the
>>> way forward?
>>
>> Actually, I did, John, suggesting several times that you and Susan
>> were getting bogged down in details. I csn point to the MessageIDs if
>> you need me to, but I'm sure you'll recall my "cart" and "horse"
>> analogy.
>
> At the end of the day there was a process. The way forward wasn't decided
> unilaterally, certainly not by me. This thread is just that. Frankly if PWH
> is truly going to be "inclusive" then things should be done properly.
> Otherwise, just leave PWH open to all the criticism that has been levelled
> at it.
>
> I'm saying no more for now. I'm bored with being the fall guy.
You'll be back.
You can't help yourself these days.
--
http://www.farkie.com/
David W
> On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 01:13:58 +0100, John Stubbings wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 18:44:00 -0500, Ron May wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:20:47 -0700, Craig <netbu...@REMOVEgmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Therefore, I /withdraw/ my name for consideration as webmaster because
>>>> our organization doesn't *have* a webmaster. We really, really need to
>>>> give this new structure a try.
>>>
>>> If you don't like the title "webmaster" then change it to something
>>> else, but I would suggest to you that the PWH site or any similar
>>> project will descend into rudderless chaos without someone to steer
>>> the course and direct the effort. Someone HAS to accept leadership
>>> responsibility or no decisions get made and little or nothing gets
>>> done.
>>>
>>
>> That's rubbish. Things are getting done. You just cannot accept the "idea".
>> People will take leadership roles as and when. They are. They just aren't
>> set in stone. You carry on Ron. So be it. Not my doing.
>
> It's no surprise to any of us to see you quit again. I think, and so do
> the rest, that it would be best for you and all of us if you moved on.
>
> Thanks, John, maybe another time.
Hmmmmmmm.
--
http://www.farkie.com/
David W
> On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:35:00 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>
>> You see Stubbings, I told you that your idea of a distributed
>> website responsibility was crap. And it is, not that I care.
>>
>> Now your own PWH uber-grupen fuhrer: Ron May is saying so.
>> He must have spent the weekend polishing his jackboots...
>>
>> It's amazing that REM and so many cultists went along with it,
>> all nodding when told to do so. "Amateurs" comes to mind.
>>
>> Take my advice, get out of it...
>
> Hummy, I realise you have never had a creative thought of any magnitude in
> your entire existence.
John, this is an unfortunate and childish over-statement.
> The world is full of your ilk, negative, how I hate that, but I really
> don't give up that easy.
>
> I have acted honorably throughout. I have spoken consistently throughout.
> What's to regret?
A huge amount of wasted time, misspent energies and gobs of humiliation.
--
http://www.farkie.com/
David W
> Max Wachtel wrote:
>
>> In <5dmo25519mjie7gss...@4ax.com> Ron May aka
>> may...@hotmail.com thought it would be fun to share this
>>little dity with the class:
>>
>>>On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 00:10:18 +0000 (UTC), "Max Wachtel"
>>><maxwa...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> thanks for that-I have set my newsreader to show all
>>>> headers now!!
>>>
>>>No problem. I bit on at least one "John Corliss" forgery
>>>when he was the target a while back. The forgeries are
>>>pretty crude and easy to spot once you know what to look
>>>for.
>>
>> someone just tried to forge me!
>
> PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLLS! You are making it worse!
>
> Please shut up!!! Just ignore them.
Ron, you're treading a thin mental line between obsessive compulsive and
keyboard retardation.
--
http://www.farkie.com/
John Stubbings
King David this is what we have all been waiting for. The thing hummingbird
would only allude to. The big expose!!!!
Conservative central office are forging <ha a special medallion to
commemorate this massive achievement.
When you lie with fuckwits King David...
John Stubbings
hummingbird, fuck off and take your libellous allegations elsewhere.
Franklin
> 'John Stubbings' wrote thus:
>>"Goebbels"
>>>
>>> I believe you - but only since you stated unequivocally that you
>>> have no agenda to become the pricelessware webmaster if/when
>>> the distributed webmaster idea went south. But it therefore
>>> makes the idea poor in its own right.
>>>
>>> Such a structure cannot really work for long due to confusions,
>>> especially with people all over the world. They will have
>>> different design/layout styles and different coding skills. And it
>>> certainly should not be necessary for a website that *should be*
>>> quite small.
>>
>> Hummy, get this into your thick skull. This isn't about creating a
>> little web site, run by a new cult, for me anyway.
>>
>> Just because you cannot see the value in people in this group
>> working together on something instead of squabbling, my hope was
>> that many would see the benefits as self evident.
>
>
> Oh believe me ...I see a lot more than is obvious to many.
> You underestmate my powers of seeing the big picture.
>
> IMV Pricelessware started out as a noble idea but has been
> progressively taken over by a group of nasty people with very
> selfish, personal objectives.
>
> Innocents who contribute to PWH are being fooled.
>
> Dig deep and think about this theory, Stubbings:
>
> - given that the ultimate orgasm of PWH is the annual production
> of its PL - which is made available as an ISO for CD burning and
> distribution, why does the pricelessware management crowd go to
> such extraordinary lengths to outstay its welcome on ACF where
> it has no rightful place, and few would miss it if it left?
> It falsely claims that PWH is owned by ACF and that ACF make
> all the decisions, all of which helps to justify its presence on
> ACF to carry out its website business activities.
>
>
> 1. is it from some deep feeling of altruism towards others?
>
> Very unlikely IMV. Many of the main people involved are bare
> faced liars, some verging on plain nasty who attack anybody who
> dissents or attempts to stand in their way. Several of those who
> purport to support PWH are one sandwich short of a picnic.
> And why destroy a newsgroup to achieve an altruistic objective?
> It simply doesn't make sense.
>
> There has to be another reason.
>
> 2. is it because some of those involved actually make money
> out of producing the CDs and selling them to their customers,
> family, friends, local PC clubs etc etc? Very likely IMV. A CD
> containing 700MB of free s/w, described as "best of the best"
> and chosen by ACF people must have a value to huge numbers of
> low-skilled users. No? How much would you say? $5, $10, $15
> a shot?
>
> We already know that many people on this newsgroup are involved
> in various ways in system support at corporate or social level.
> Having a bunch of PL CDs in their pocket is a nice way of earning
> a few extra tax-free dollars. We also know a guy who appeared on
> ACF a while back who does exactly that: sells the CDs at garage
> sales and to friends etc to make extra money.
>
> That is the only explanation that would justify (in their minds)
> the huge amount of selfish disruption and bad blood which PWH
> people cause on ACF. It's about them making money. Maybe you're
> at it too. Yes?
>
> Think about that.
>
>>I was trying to create a process where as many people as possible
>>were *included* and *involved*, your extensive management experience
>>in cost cutting is just a poor fit for this. I'm sorry, but here's
>>your cards, I'm going to have to let you go.
>
> David Cameron recently:
> - "any minister who wants to do more for less, will get promoted".
> - "any minister who wants to do less for more, will get sacked".
>
> Get used to it ...lean govt will be the new paradigm.
> 12 years of profligate socialist govt is drawing to an end :-)
>
> I know which side I'm on. I'm a winner :-)
Hummingbird, what you have written is so absurd that even you can't
possibily believe it. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
It is so full of conspiracy theories and poor insight. You had the same
reputation for poor insight on "uk.politics.misc". You seem to have a
very distorted view of the world.
Here is a one example from UPM. It's long but informative.
Subject: "Fahrenheit 9/11 .....highly recommended"
Date: July 7, 2004
http://preview.tinyurl.com/kmh6m5
Hummingbird is sometimes refrred to as "Buzzy"
Franklin
> 'John Stubbings' wrote thus:
>
>>On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:24:21 -0400, David W wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:32:34 +0100, John Stubbings wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:19:29 +0100, [Goebbels] hummingbird wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's about them making money. Maybe you're at it too. Yes?
>>>>
>>>> Hummy, making money is a game to me. Give me credit for playing
>>>> in a higher league than pushing $5 Cd's...
>>>
>>> Ten $25 CDs a month pays for a lot of cat food, Jesus-John. Don't
>>> be smug about the possibilities.
>
>
>>King David this is what we have all been waiting for. The thing
>>hummingbird would only allude to. The big expose!!!!
>
> Stubby, my previous post was a rational theory to explain the
> presence and vehement determination of PWH groupies on ACF.
> Nasty and dishonest people don't usually indulge in altruism,
> so there is obviously another reason.
>
> Instead of poo-pooing it, you would do well to think about it.
>
> I remind you of that old truism which I passionately believe:
> "All truth passes through three stages.
> First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed,
> and third, it is accepted as self-evident"
Did you manage to convince uk.politics.misc that they were all
mistaken in the "Fahrenheit 9/11" thread or is your insight as poor as
everyone was telling you?
Subject: 'Fahrenheit 9/11 .....highly recommended'
Date: July 7, 2004
Google Groups: http://preview.tinyurl.com/kmh6m5
note: In UPM Hummingbird was sometimes known as "Buzzy"
Franklin
<news:4a2d1ece$0$869$c5fe...@read01.usenet4all.se>:
Is it possible that when Jacqueline Bottoms hits a computer problem
she could call in a well-known "computer expert and freeware
researcher" to do some work for the school system?
Craig
> And by the way, it saddens me to see how the emphasis in this group has
> shifted away from making the *PRICELESSWARE LIST* to worrying about the
> monstrosity that Bugher has created on the PWH site.
Ron May, Thip & Ron have signed on for PL2009. The more people
involved, the sooner the shift back to where the emphasis belongs.
Anyone who wants to help with PL2009 in *any* way, please let us know
what you'd like to do, or can do, or just that you'd like to help.
PL2009 has a good chance at being one of our best.
-Craig
========= Current PL2009 volunteers ================
*** PL2009
* nominations (one or more volunteers, one point person)
(Ron May, Thip)
* final list (one or more volunteers, one point person)
(Ron May, Thip)
* PL CD (one or more volunteers, one point person)
* cumulative lists (one or more volunteers, one point person)
* PL CD "burners" (one or more volunteers) (Ron)
Craig
> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 19:23:48 -0700, Craig<netbu...@REMOVEgmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Stuff's getting done. I submit that the Sturm und Drang we're
>> experiencing right now is normal for a transition period. Let's let it
>> play out for a bit. It isn't a life-or-death scenario so, we'll be able
>> to recover.
>>
>> I understand your skepticism. I have my own about this process but,
>> give it a spin anyway. Let's try it.
>
> It's your call. You have a vote of confidence and support for the
> volunteer approach, and I would submit you're already exercising a
> leadership role now anyway. A vacuum demands to be filled. It's
> unavoidable.<g>
Yea;
You're right about the vacuum and, therefore, I think the appropriate
title for me at this point is "lead-big-ultimate-master cheerleader."
LBUMC for short. Thanks for the
> You have a vote of confidence and support for the volunteer approach...
I do appreciate that 11 of us feel that way. And I do appreciate that
I'm "exercising a leadership role." For me, that's a big part of the
beauty of this particular set up: You'll seeing more and more people in
leadership "roles" around here.
Ain't that right, Mr. PL2009? <grin>
thx,
-Craig
David W
> I reviewed all 110 posts up to this point, and 14 official ballots
> have been cast so far. Only one(*) could not be verified (by me) as a
> valid poster, but I included it in the totals below:
Ron, show me the definition of "valid poster"? I count over 100. Since
you have only 14 votes, five of which are abstentions, then a less than
10% showing should tell you fathoms about the interest and the voice of
Pricelessware.
Have you ever heard the term "crying in the wilderness"? :)
--
http://www.farkie.com/
David W
> On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:24:21 -0400, David W wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:32:34 +0100, John Stubbings wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:19:29 +0100, [Goebbels] hummingbird wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's about them making money. Maybe you're at it too. Yes?
>>>
>>> Hummy, making money is a game to me. Give me credit for playing in a higher
>>> league than pushing $5 Cd's...
>>
>> Ten $25 CDs a month pays for a lot of cat food, Jesus-John. Don't be
>> smug about the possibilities.
>
> King David this is what we have all been waiting for. The thing hummingbird
> would only allude to. The big expose!!!!
I don't know, he hasn't said.
> Conservative central office are forging <ha a special medallion to
> commemorate this massive achievement.
That's nice. I guess.
> When you lie with fuckwits King David...
...you get up laid? I don't know the saying, John.
--
http://www.farkie.com/
REM
> Craig <netbu...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
>========= Current PL2009 volunteers ================
>
>*** PL2009
>* nominations (one or more volunteers, one point person)
>(Ron May, Thip)
>* final list (one or more volunteers, one point person)
>(Ron May, Thip)
>* PL CD (one or more volunteers, one point person)
>* cumulative lists (one or more volunteers, one point person)
>* PL CD "burners" (one or more volunteers) (Ron)
No biggie, but you can add me as a CD burner along with Ron.
Thanks! :)
David W
>>>>> It's about them making money. Maybe you're at it too. Yes?
>>>>
>>>> Hummy, making money is a game to me. Give me credit for playing in a higher
>>>> league than pushing $5 Cd's...
>>>
>>> Ten $25 CDs a month pays for a lot of cat food, Jesus-John. Don't be
>>> smug about the possibilities.
>
>>King David this is what we have all been waiting for. The thing hummingbird
>>would only allude to. The big expose!!!!
>
> Stubby, my previous post was a rational theory to explain the
> presence and vehement determination of PWH groupies on ACF.
> Nasty and dishonest people don't usually indulge in altruism,
> so there is obviously another reason.
>
> Instead of poo-pooing it, you would do well to think about it.
Especially since it will be a criminal act to sell freeware that is not
licensed for sale. Anyone who has a part in that will be an accessory.
Come to think of it, REM's and others consistent backing of John "The
Fraud" Fitzsimons makes perfect sense.
--
http://www.farkie.com/
David W
Assuredly, I have never thought otherwise since you exposed Jacqueline
Bottoms as data supervisor.
I also wonder about how much illegal freeware she runs, put there by
Bear Bottoms, illegal since it would certainly be used commercially.
It's time for a call, yes?
--
http://www.farkie.com/
David W
> 'David W' wrote thus:
>
>>On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:19:29 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>>
>>> 2. is it because some of those involved actually make money
>>> out of producing the CDs and selling them to their customers,
>>> family, friends, local PC clubs etc etc? Very likely IMV. A CD
>>> containing 700MB of free s/w, described as "best of the best"
>>> and chosen by ACF people must have a value to huge numbers of
>>> low-skilled users. No? How much would you say? $5, $10, $15
>>> a shot?
>>>
>>> We already know that many people on this newsgroup are involved
>>> in various ways in system support at corporate or social level.
>>> Having a bunch of PL CDs in their pocket is a nice way of earning
>>> a few extra tax-free dollars. We also know a guy who appeared on
>>> ACF a while back who does exactly that: sells the CDs at garage
>>> sales and to friends etc to make extra money.
>>>
>>> That is the only explanation that would justify (in their minds)
>>> the huge amount of selfish disruption and bad blood which PWH
>>> people cause on ACF. It's about them making money. Maybe you're
>>> at it too. Yes?
>
>>I have to admit that I have often thought the same thing about John.
>>Ever since his invention failed, he's been acting like his life is in
>>the crapper.
>
> Latest post from Craig. Notice the emphasis on PL CDs:
>
> <quote>
>
>>PL2009 has a good chance at being one of our best.
>
>>========= Current PL2009 volunteers ================
>>*** PL2009
>>* nominations (one or more volunteers, one point person)
>>(Ron May, Thip)
>>* final list (one or more volunteers, one point person)
>>(Ron May, Thip)
>>* PL CD (one or more volunteers, one point person)
>>* cumulative lists (one or more volunteers, one point person)
>>* PL CD "burners" (one or more volunteers) (Ron)
>
> </quote>
>
> These guys are giving the stuff away. Right.
Check my new sig.
--
PWH and the Pricelessware Con Game - Exposed
http://tinyurl.com/knogy8
David W
> 'David W' wrote thus:
>
>>On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:19:29 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>>
>>> 2. is it because some of those involved actually make money
>>> out of producing the CDs and selling them to their customers,
>>> family, friends, local PC clubs etc etc? Very likely IMV. A CD
>>> containing 700MB of free s/w, described as "best of the best"
>>> and chosen by ACF people must have a value to huge numbers of
>>> low-skilled users. No? How much would you say? $5, $10, $15
>>> a shot?
>>>
>>> We already know that many people on this newsgroup are involved
>>> in various ways in system support at corporate or social level.
>>> Having a bunch of PL CDs in their pocket is a nice way of earning
>>> a few extra tax-free dollars. We also know a guy who appeared on
>>> ACF a while back who does exactly that: sells the CDs at garage
>>> sales and to friends etc to make extra money.
>>>
>>> That is the only explanation that would justify (in their minds)
>>> the huge amount of selfish disruption and bad blood which PWH
>>> people cause on ACF. It's about them making money. Maybe you're
>>> at it too. Yes?
>
>>I have to admit that I have often thought the same thing about John.
>>Ever since his invention failed, he's been acting like his life is in
>>the crapper.
>
> In honesty I never really thought JS would be involved, but his
> sensitivity about the subject makes me wonder.....
I believe his personal misfortunes have made it a necessity. There is no
telling ho much of his and Christopher Parrili's money he has
squandered.
Ron
> Ron wrote:
>> Max Wechtel wrote:
>>> Ron May wrote:
>>>> Max Wachtel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> don't know much about using remailers. Do remailers use accounts that
>>>>> can be cancelled because of abuse and if so, do they cancel them?
>>>> You can flag or delete messages that come through anonymous remailers.
>>>> Whether abuse reports are worthwhile remains to be seen.
>>> it's not worth it to me anymore between the bichin', trolls and carry
>>> on. Thanks, Ron but I'm out.
>>
>> I'm not 100% sure if that's your post, Max, but I encourage you to
>> reconsider.
>>
>> Istm, the main purpose of all the forgers and socks is to completely
>> disrupt the PWH process. There are a few (some very well-known) who
>> would love to see it all crash and burn. I think they're all bullies,
>> and have no intention to get so frustrated as to throw in the towel.
>>
>> If you're determined to abstain, then thank you for your previous
>> efforts. The noise level *has* been startling, to say the least. Even
>> usually thoughtful folks have been butting heads because of it all.
>
> Ron, I sincerely hope you're not including me in the group of people who
> want to disrupt the PWH process. I'm simply waiting for Susan to go away
> (if she ever does, and I suspect she won't.)
>
> And by the way, it saddens me to see how the emphasis in this group has
> shifted away from making the *PRICELESSWARE LIST* to worrying about the
> monstrosity that Bugher has created on the PWH site.
>
> done a better job than setting up the monstrosity that exists at that
> location, and then dragging the discussion of who does what and when and
> to whom regarding that fricking mess on and on and on and on etc.
>
> Far from wanting the PWH process to be disrupted, want to see it over
> and done with (as in completed) so that the group can move on and create
> the PW list.
>
> Seems to me that everybody's putting the cart before the horse. The PWH
> site isn't shit without a current list.
>
Absolutely not, John. I may not always agree with you, but I've never
doubted the sincerity of your beliefs and actions. We may have the
occasional differences in POV, but you've never expressed anything but a
desire to improve the operations of the group, afaict. I don't always
agree with your opinions of some members of ACF, but that doesn't make
them any less valid, to my way of thinking.
With kind regards,
Ron
Craig
w00t!
-Craig
Franklin
<news:4a2d4a2b$0$865$c5fe...@read01.usenet4all.se>:
Sounds interesting. Not heard of this before. Can you provide more
info of the connection between John Stubbings and Christopher Parilli?
Franklin
> On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:48:01 +0100, Franklin wrote:
>
>> On 8 Jun 2009 15:23, David W wrote in alt.comp.freeware
>>
Does the Freedom Of Information Act include school district admin?
Franklin
> Franklin, wrote thus:
>
>>On 8 Jun 2009 10:17, ["Goebbels"] hummingbird wrote:
>>
>>> [getbymid] 'Ron <rmoo...@ix.netcom.com>' wrote thus:
>>>
>>> Ron, your IP addresses are still being caught in my SPAM filters
>>> for having posted spam on this newsgroup or other newsgroups in
>>> the past (commercial or private spam).
>>>
>>> Are you a part-time spammer? This is the 3rd time I've asked.
>>>
>
>>Hummingbird, that's a dumb attempt at trolling.
>
> Rubbish. I described a fact and asked a question.
> Why won't he answer?
>
>>You're just trying to entrap him.
>
> If he's a spammer he deserves to be entrapped, although
> it not my intention.
Hummingbird, that's a dumb attempt at trolling.
Do you honestly expect Ron to answer?
You're just trying to entrap him.
David W
It was soon after that John converted to Jesus-John; he posted that
things were "falling apart" or something similar in the midst of his
explaining why he had not moved forward with the Pricelessware project.
I see sadness and confusion in his posts. I can only attribute this to
his failed product.
David W
I don't know. If the information is not private, I would expect that any
citizen would have the right to it since the school is publicly funded.
I am interested in making sure that the school administration is aware
of this potential illegality regarding their own data administrator.
Jacqueline Bottoms knows better, of this there is no doubt.
If Bear Bottoms is receiving work without a bid process, sole sourcing
public work is another potential criminal action.
Franklin
<news:4a2d5392$0$867$c5fe...@read01.usenet4all.se>:
Your info explains a comment I heard recently. It said "Christopher
Parilli is a frontman for David W's investments".
I must say I was taken aback when I heard that but the implication
seems to be that you're the investor backing John Stubbings.
I hope I've not gone and put my foot in it by posting this.
Franklin
> 'Franklin' wrote thus:
>>On 8 Jun 2009 18:30, hummingbird wrote in alt.comp.freeware
>>> Franklin, wrote thus:
>>>>On 8 Jun 2009 10:17, ["Goebbels"] hummingbird wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> [getbymid] 'Ron <rmoo...@ix.netcom.com>' wrote thus:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron, your IP addresses are still being caught in my SPAM filters
>>>>> for having posted spam on this newsgroup or other newsgroups in
>>>>> the past (commercial or private spam).
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you a part-time spammer? This is the 3rd time I've asked.
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>Hummingbird, that's a dumb attempt at trolling.
>>>
>>> Rubbish. I described a fact and asked a question.
>>> Why won't he answer?
>>>
>>>
>>> He deserves to be entrapped
>>> It is my intention.
>>
>>Hummingbird, that's a dumb attempt at trolling.
>>Do you honestly expect Ron to answer?
>>You're just trying to entrap him.
>
>
Hummingbird, thank you very much for te old cut and paste info. I'm
not reading much fiction at the moment so I'll have to decline your
kind offer to read more pulp fiction.
Actually, I'm reading some factual material at the moment. Perhaps it
would also interest you? This is a snippet:
Hummingbird [Goebbels] posts are a bit detached from the known facts.
He made the following two posts through Aioe in his name.
Their NNTP-Posting-Host is: 4EWbcYEJ25dHs/2NQA5EzA.user.aioe.org
Subject: Re: Yes, I know my signature file is now too big.
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:45:35 +0000
From: hummingbird <hummi...@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID <fe27affdf176860c...@localhost.127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: Ware poll
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:50:33 +0000
From: hummingbird <hummi...@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID <04e850e33f5a22e0...@localhost.127.0.0.1>
--------------
The same Aioe NNTP-Posting-Host appeared in these posts below. This
means these following posts were made by the same user. In other
words, these 17 posts were made by Hummingbird (Chris Millbank
popularly known as "Goebbels").
Subject: Ostracize the trolls II
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:31:07 +0100
From: Franky& Jonny
<WeMeetOnPat...@EveryOpportunity.octanoos.org>
Message-ID <f9ng59$690$1...@aioe.org>
Subject: Top ten posters - Last 5 days
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 02:10:46 +0100
From: Jon+Franklin <WeAre...@octanews.kiss.kiss.organs.com>
Message-ID <f9lmn3$t51$1...@aioe.org>
Subject: Re: Charley Reese says
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:07:17 -0600 (CST)
From: Frank.lin <lip.s...@lert.invalid.com>
Message-ID <1414020392ac55b3...@franklin.127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: JC-bonehead
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:02:33 -0500
JC bonehead <trol...@anytime.invalid.com>
Message-ID <fc63rs$r14$1...@aioe.org>
Subject: Re: [OT] How to filter out all Google Groups posts with
NewsProxy
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:08:15 +0000
From: PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
<corliss.i...@home.invalid.com>
Message-ID <john.corliss.is.t...@corliss.troll.com>
Subject: Re: Best bloatless firewall?
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:06:55 +0100
From: spoton <spo...@privacy.com.net>
Message-ID <fcr3g2$muk$1...@aioe.org>
Subject: Re: Lew/+Silat makes offensive remarks against Christians
[was Re: free screensavers]
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:21:40 -0500
From: goyem <go...@church.com>
Message-ID <ffi4nq$5bq$1...@aioe.org>
From: goyem <go...@church.com>
Subject: Re: Lew/+Silat makes offensive remarks against Christians
[was Re: free screensavers]
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:27:04 -0500
Message-ID <ffl7ne$pge$1...@aioe.org>
From: The Boss <is....@runlike.hell.com>
Newsgroups uk.politics.misc,alt.comp.freeware,rec.motorcycles.victory
Subject: Stop your idiot cunt Franklin crossposting
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:47:13 +0000
Message-ID <firtjotnh59g8...@nowmail.com>
From: Mystic Meg <mystic....@starflutecommand.com>
Subject: Mystic Meg's predictions for <a.c.f.> 2008
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:52:34 -0600
Organization: Mystic Meg's starry-eyed bonzo club
Message-ID <81b16fe743bfcc7d...@MysticMeg.127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: JC-bonehead
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:02:33 -0500
From: JC bonehead <trol...@anytime.invalid.com>
Message-ID <fc63rs$r14$1...@aioe.org>
Subject: Re: JC-bonehead
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:15:42 -0500
From: JC bonehead <trol...@anytime.invalid.com>
Message-ID <fc6bih$j3f$1...@aioe.org>
Subject: Re: JC-bonehead
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:09:31 -0500
From: JC bonehead <trol...@anytime.invalid.com>
Message-ID <fc6sqg$5om$1...@aioe.org>
Subject: Re: JC-bonehead
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 01:23:17 -0500
From: JC bonehead <trol...@anytime.invalid.com>
Message-ID <fc7blt$em3$1...@aioe.org>
Subject: JC-bonehead
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:46:47 -0500
From: JC-bonehead <trol...@anytime.invalid.com>
Message-ID <fc4l4c$upf$1...@aioe.org>
Subject: Re: JC-bonehead
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 01:52:10 -0500
From: JC-bonehead <trol...@anytime.invalid.com>
Message-ID <fc4out$8e3$1...@aioe.org>
Subject: Fascism's Legacy: Liberalism
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:40:28 -0800
From: "Lew/Silat" <Drafted1870nu...@Invalidmail.com>
Message-ID <9KGdnbYaUSYIstDa...@comcast.com>
===================
A quick look through Google shows Chris Millbank (Hummingbird) had
used the following sockpuppet names in ACF. I haven't gone through
everything so this list is just an example.
Ashkenazi
goyem
Duckling Club
PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
buster
liberator
4.Ron.May
4RonMay
humming.bird
h.ummingbird
hum.mingbird
hummin.gbird
FranqlinReptile
Franklin iNcReDuLoUs
Frank.lin
Franky& Jonny
Jon+Franklin
JC bonehead
hamsteruser
Franqli...@octanews.kissmyass.com
chri...@church.com
The Boss
stan
jsmith
Chas.on.HamsterClassic
Christopher Millbank (rec.motorcycles.victory Supernews)
aracari (uk.politics.misc)
===================
That list omits posts Hummingbird Goebbels made to ACF in 2009 to
evade Ron May's killfile or posts forged in the name of other users
like John Stubbins.
Other socks (such as these below) are very recent and need looking at
more closely.
Allen Putrardo
Bernard Williams
Billy Banks
Edwin Trafalfar
Emily Russell
Fred Atkins
Hank Torvalds
Jasmine Snelling
No Juan
NoOne
Paul Surrett
Polk,L.,Bp.ECCSA
Selso Isley
Turner Warren
Werner Maas
====================
All the above isn't exactly the same as Hummingbird (Goebbels)
statment that there are :
"just 1-2 socks I occasionally use to wriggle
and evade killfiles when necessary".
David W
>>>>* PL CD (one or more volunteers, one point person)
>>>>* cumulative lists (one or more volunteers, one point person)
>>>>* PL CD "burners" (one or more volunteers) (Ron)
>>>
>>> </quote>
>>>
>>> These guys are giving the stuff away. Right.
>
>>Check my new sig.
>>--
>>PWH and the Pricelessware Con Game - Exposed
>>http://tinyurl.com/knogy8
>
> Altruism is out. Money is in. ACF provides free floorspace:
>
> "3. The left column, intended for new viewers, says it all - we
> need your financial help to maintain the site. And it gives them
> the opportunity to reach into their wallets."
REM is tooting his horn claiming he paid $50 for hosting services. He's
also the Treasurer of this so-called "nonprofit" group.
Which hasn't much time to discuss freeware.
Why not put all the programs in one file and use a file transfer utility
(YouSendIt, etc) or have them pulled down from the website as a zip
file?
Why? Because you can't personally solicit for a donation when you do,
that's why.
David W
lol That's a very interesting comment.
> I must say I was taken aback when I heard that but the implication
> seems to be that you're the investor backing John Stubbings.
Then I am SOL!
> I hope I've not gone and put my foot in it by posting this.
No, not at all.