A Comcast problem
norman...@comcast.net
reduction in the monthly fee to compensate for this suspension.
Individually, we have little leverage; Together, we have enough heft to
change even Comcast.
So what are we going to do about it?
Ciao,
Norm Strong
RF
Find a competitor and subscribe to it. That will
give Comcast the message it deserves.
Craig
From <http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/internet.html>
> How do I file a complaint against my Internet Service Provider? The
> FCC does not regulate the Internet or Internet Service Providers
> (ISPs). You may contact your state consumer protection office or if
> there is possible fraud involved, you may contact the Federal Trade
> Commission.
No notable exceptions from what I've read.
And the same answer from California's Public Utility Commission:
> The Commission does not regulate the following:
> * Internet service providers (ISP)
The exception in the case of the CPUC is if one's ISP service is
included as a part of their phone billing package (bundled). At that
point, they'll get involved.
If the ISP is a cable company... at least in California, that is managed
by city-level government. IOW, one would have to work through their
city manager.
A couple of other ways to try to approach this. Not as an ISP issue but:
1) As a fraud issue (only recently does Comcast refer to the nntp
service as "complimentary" and there's no reduction in fees charged,
etc). At that point, everyone can help.
2) As a telephony issue. If you use your cable company as your phone
service provider then the aforementioned exception could hold.
It's funneh how cable companies resemble the railroad companies of the
19th century: Relatively huge, oligopolistic powers descending on
little, isolated town governments... one after another.
-Craig
SJP
<norman...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1dednZYzaMLWgXjV...@comcast.com...
Nothing as this is a freeware group OR leave Comcast for an ISP that still
supports Usenet
bud
Comcast calls the newsgroups a complimentary service. It's something extra
they included in their ISP service at no extra charge. Why would you expect
a refund or a reduction for a complimentary service?
Alfred Einstein
news:U7cFk.293864$vn1.2...@fe03.news.easynews.com...
They can call it what they want. But taking it away is a reduction in
service. Doing so may or may not (probably not) violate the terms of their
agreement with the customer. But it's still a reduction.
So, run to the competition (if there is any).
Incidentally, Bell South (now "the new AT&T") likewise dropped usenet a
couple of months ago.
VanguardLH
If you believe the numbers that Comcast quotes for how few of their
customers use newsgroups:
- From that count extract the portion of them that are binary
downloaders (since text users can find free NNTP servers).
- From that small group, extract those that will participate in a class
action lawsuit against Comcast.
- From that even smaller group, extract those that would actually show
up in court or sign their proxy authorization.
The remaining population of Comcast customers that show up in court plus
proxy votes would probably be less than the number of lawyers that
Comcast would hire to show up in court.
Find a couple lawyer friends fresh out of college that are still living
at home where they get free room and board and have a car paid by their
parents who can't find placement at a legal office and who would like to
get something on their resume and who will work on commission from the
settlement. They might take on your class action lawsuit. Once they
file, they can start the process to force release of a list of their
customers to whom they can send a proxy vote form to each customer. Ya
never know: you might get more answered proxies than the resultant small
population left after the above mentioned filters.
I remember getting the notice and then later the proxy vote form for the
class action lawsuit against a list of computer memory manufacturers for
price fixing. I tossed it since the return would be little more than
the cost of the postage stamp to send it in.
After you went through all that to start a class action lawsuit, their
lawyers would end the case in one hour of court time by reciting section
4 of their Terms of Service (http://www.comcast.net/terms/subscriber/).
Your recourse if you don't accept their TOS is to cancel their service.
Since they are a monopoly in most locations where they do business,
that's not going to happen.
Marty
>
>Comcast has decided to suspend Usenet service.
>
If you can help it, drop Comcast. They do not want your
business.
Find another ISP that carries Usenet.
Marty
Marty
>Marty <Sorry@No_Address.Com> wrote the following in alt.comp.freeware on
>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 17:21:57 GMT
>They're a big business and can certainly manage losing a few customers over
>this. Best IMO to get a free usenet service.
No business, regardless of size, can afford to lose customers. And
Comcast is no exception. Every person who is affected by this
should drop Comcast - hit them where it counts.
Marty
Dan Goodman
> Marty <Sorry@No_Address.Com> wrote the following in alt.comp.freeware
> on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 17:21:57 GMT
>
> They're a big business and can certainly manage losing a few
> customers over this. Best IMO to get a free usenet service.
Perhaps. But GET ANOTHER ISP also.
--
--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://clerkfuturist.wordpress.com
Mirror Journal http://dsgood.insanejournal.com
Mirror 2 http://dsgood.wordpress.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood
Ari
> No business, regardless of size, can afford to lose customers. And
> Comcast is no exception. Every person who is affected by this
> should drop Comcast - hit them where it counts.
>
> Marty
Aw, the exuberance of either youth or stupidity.
LouB
> Ghostintheshell wrote:
>
>> Marty <Sorry@No_Address.Com> wrote the following in alt.comp.freeware
>> on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 17:21:57 GMT
>>
>>> On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 12:08:28 -0700, <norman...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> Comcast has decided to suspend Usenet service.
>>>>
>>> If you can help it, drop Comcast. They do not want your
>>> business.
>>>
>>> Find another ISP that carries Usenet.
>> They're a big business and can certainly manage losing a few
>> customers over this. Best IMO to get a free usenet service.
>
> Perhaps. But GET ANOTHER ISP also.
>
Lou
Marty
It is actually very simple. Your ISP stops offering Usenet and you
switch to another ISP who does.
A normal reaction for most people.
Marty
LouB
Switching ISPs is often impossible, but getting newsgroups from other
suppliers is very easy. Remember the ISP is simply an on ramp to a
highway. An ISP dropping Usenet is saying that they no longer want to
run a bus, but there are other buses.
Lou
Ari
It is simple.
1) Usenet is zero of mine and the majority of the planet's reason for
having an ISP. You should follow that lead.
2) Comcast has a gazillion customers, your one, one hundred or 1,000 man
Usenet protest won't mean didly squat to them.
3) Your comment "No business, regardless of size, can afford to lose
customers" defers to your age and experience, both harboring around
zero.
Marty
>2) Comcast has a gazillion customers, your one, one hundred or 1,000 man
>Usenet protest won't mean didly squat to them.
It is still the best option. Drop Comcast or Verizon or any ISP that
decided not to carry Usenet and get one that does.
You sound like you are on a mission to defend these people.
>
>3) Your comment "No business, regardless of size, can afford to lose
>customers" defers to your age and experience, both harboring around
>zero.
It is worth repeating. No business, regardless of size, can afford to
lose customers.
Sparky
Hash: RIPEMD160
Marty wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 18:43:37 -0400, Ari
>>
>>2) Comcast has a gazillion customers, your one, one hundred or 1,000 man
>>Usenet protest won't mean didly squat to them.
>
> It is still the best option. Drop Comcast or Verizon or any ISP that
> decided not to carry Usenet and get one that does.
Actually, it's not an option at all for a vast number of people. Where
I live I have two choices. And both of them have dropped Usenet
completely already. My only recourse is long distance dialup, so I find
other ways to get my occasional Usenet fix.
>
> You sound like you are on a mission to defend these people.
Ari (I don't actually read anything it posts any more and manage to
avoid most replies to it) may have a lot of "missions", but as
distasteful as it is for me to admit it's spot on about this. It isn't
defending anyone as far as I can tell, it's just telling the truth for
a change.
>
>>
>>3) Your comment "No business, regardless of size, can afford to lose
>>customers" defers to your age and experience, both harboring around
>>zero.
>
> It is worth repeating. No business, regardless of size, can afford to
> lose customers.
Utter nonsense. I've been in business for myself for more than 25
years. I've lost many customers for all sorts of reasons. Didn't make a
significant difference in my life at all because I always had others.
At least enough to pay the bills. And I'm completely independent, not a
national behemoth like Comcast, Roadrunner, etc. They not only
wouldn't care about you and a few thousand customers jumping ship, they
probably couldn't notice you even if they went looking.
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Ari
It is worth repeating: Your comment "No business, regardless of size,
can afford to lose customers" defers to your age and experience, both
harboring around zero.
You're so damned immature you've been backed into an all too familiar to
you corner again, where you're reduced to the same pathetic "I WIN I WIN
I WIN" screeching you employ without exception when you find yourself in
that position. It's pathetic. You've lost the game horribly, but your
incredibly fragile ego won't for a second allow you to do anything but
make an utter ass of yourself over and over.
It's just bizarre. Even though admitting you're rather "lacking" when
it comes to this area of interest would bolster your credibility
considerably your narcissism is so thorough you keep denying yourself
the very thing you seem to want. Respect. You're like a damned drunk
who can't for the life of him put down the bottle.
The only thing I can figure is your parent(s) fucked your head all up
in your formative years. Coddled you way too much, didn't let you fail,
and kept telling you how wonderful everything you did was even when you
got busted torturing the neighbor's pets. You'll probably never be able
to get right without intense professional help, so unless or until you
do seek it I guess you're going to have to accept all the ass kicking
you're going to get when you over reach your abilities and make piss
poor cliche' ridden horseshit as a result.
Marty
<DROPTheJo...@gmail.comCAPITALLETTERS> wrote:
>
>It is worth repeating: Your comment "No business, regardless of size,
>can afford to lose customers" defers to your age and experience, both
>harboring around zero.
>
>You're so damned immature you've been backed into an all too familiar to
>you corner again, where you're reduced to the same pathetic "I WIN I WIN
>I WIN" screeching you employ without exception when you find yourself in
>that position. It's pathetic. You've lost the game horribly, but your
>incredibly fragile ego won't for a second allow you to do anything but
>make an utter ass of yourself over and over.
>
>It's just bizarre. Even though admitting you're rather "lacking" when
>it comes to this area of interest would bolster your credibility
>considerably your narcissism is so thorough you keep denying yourself
>the very thing you seem to want. Respect. You're like a damned drunk
>who can't for the life of him put down the bottle.
>
>The only thing I can figure is your parent(s) fucked your head all up
>in your formative years. Coddled you way too much, didn't let you fail,
>and kept telling you how wonderful everything you did was even when you
>got busted torturing the neighbor's pets. You'll probably never be able
>to get right without intense professional help, so unless or until you
>do seek it I guess you're going to have to accept all the ass kicking
>you're going to get when you over reach your abilities and make piss
>poor cliche' ridden horseshit as a result.
Oh... Ari,
I apologise - I did not mean to upset you - wow... you wrote all that
for me? Thank you - I feel special. And hey, if I hurt your
feelings, get mommy to kiss your owee, pull up your pants and it
will feel better after a while. I promise.
Ari, I didn't know you were working for Comcast, honest.
And from now on, when someone complains that Comcast dropped
Usenet, I will tell them to stay with Comcast for their excellent
service and content - who needs Usenet anyway? Comcast is
such a wonderful company.
Marty
Alfred Einstein
Bell South (the new AT&T, oh joy!) dropped binaries groups a few months ago,
but kept text groups.
No matter ... I went with Forte News ... they're the guys who sell Forte
Agent news reader.
They have a number of plans ... I took the $2.95/mo plan, good for 6 GB per
month. If I exceed 6 GB, they bill another $2.95.
If you only read text groups, you'll be hard pressed to use up 6 GB in a
month.
For binaries, you could use it up. But at 50 cents per month per GB, it's
pretty cheap. And their retention is better than Bell South's was.
Ari
> Ari (I don't actually read anything it posts any more and manage to
> avoid most replies to it) may have a lot of "missions", but as
> distasteful as it is for me to admit it's spot on about this. It isn't
> defending anyone as far as I can tell, it's just telling the truth for
> a change.
Fuck you, "Sparky" you know damn well why you don't engage me in debate.
All you have to do is look in a butt mirror to see the scars left when
you did.
Ari
>>>3) Your comment "No business, regardless of size, can afford to lose
>>>customers" defers to your age and experience, both harboring around
>>>zero.
>>
>> It is worth repeating. No business, regardless of size, can afford to
>> lose customers.
>
> Utter nonsense. I've been in business for myself for more than 25
> years.
Total lie, "Sparky" recently told us he was a toner salesman for Xerox
then ran a wigjit factory until the year 1990. "Sparky's a bright,
unidirectionally talented guy. The problem is move him a slight bit
off-center security-based discussions and he becomes a compulsive liar
with no directional guidance.
In short, he is and always will be my One Trick Little Pony.
Ari
Hi
You're an idiot.
Bye.
Ari
> I'm going to drop them and switch to DSL. They don't offer usenet, but the
> fact that Comcast is reducing service without reducing the price is the
> final slap in the face for me. I know I and the others that may do the same
> thing will have little effect, but the bastards won't get any more of ~my~
> money. If nothing else, that makes me feel good.
> --
> Tim Weaver
We got a reduction in pricing and a rebate. Call. Have ballz.
Ari
> How much of a reduction and how much of a rebate?
$40 for three lines, $9.97 per month each. Yet we never used Comcast for
Usenet pulls. lol
John
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 01:30:30 -0400, Ari
>
> >On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 21:25:49 GMT, Marty wrote:
>
> >> No business, regardless of size, can afford to lose customers. And
> >> Comcast is no exception.
A really naive comment, and quite false by the way.
> Every person who is affected by this
> >> should drop Comcast - hit them where it counts.
>
> >> Marty
>
> >Aw, the exuberance of either youth or stupidity.
>
> It is actually very simple. Your ISP stops offering Usenet and you
> switch to another ISP who does.
>
> A normal reaction for most people.
>
Hey genius, what do you do when there is NO alternative, NO
competition, and NO other ISP available?
You are either 12 years old, or just trolling.
John
Marty
wrote:
>
>A really naive comment, and quite false by the way.
No business, regardless of size, can afford to lose customers. And
Comcast is no exception.
Comcast drops Usenet and you drop Comcast. It is called voting
with your dollars.
>
>Hey genius, what do you do when there is NO alternative, NO
>competition, and NO other ISP available?
You got me there - I am speechless.
Marty
Alfred Einstein
news:b1cb052c-4837-4be6...@p31g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Hey genius, what do you do when there is NO alternative, NO
> competition, and NO other ISP available?
What about the ISP in the sky ... satellite?
Ron May
> No business, regardless of size, can afford to lose customers. And
> Comcast is no exception.
Sometimes that adage works. Other times, the numbers play out
differently, and I think it's one of those "other times" where Usenet
is concerned.
Maybe one customer in twenty can explain what Usenet is. Out of
those, perhaps less than half would even care if the service were
dropped. Of that number, perhaps one in five would be upset enough to
drop their service and go elsewhere (or even have the option to do
so.)
Sound abiut right?
Now let's say that an ISP figures that providing Usenet, especially
binaries, takes up 3 or 4 percent of its operating expenses. The ISP
has been looking at that for a while, and has been looking for an
excuse to drop the service that would provide "cover" for the
underlying profit motive. Along comes the "anti-predator" opportunity
and they take advantage of it.
Let's run the numbers:
"One customer in twenty" is five percent. "Perhaps less than half
would even care" brings it back to 2.5 percent (or less.) The "one in
five (who) would be upset enough to drop their service and go
elsewhere" cuts that down to a half prcent or less.
Do you think an ISP would take a half percent reduction in revenue in
exchange for a three or four percent reduction in operating expenses?
Only six days a week and twice on Sunday!
That's why the big ISPs are dropping or have dropped Usenet without so
much as a glance in the rear view mirror. Capitalism is all about
squeezing out the last nickel of profit and all other considerations
be damned.
--
Ron M. (I filter Googlespam)
Known sock puppets and forged messages are deleted unread.
alt.comp.freeware information pages:
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Index.php
Alfred Einstein
news:nekle4d83iqt0u08n...@4ax.com...
> Sometimes that adage works. Other times, the numbers play out
> differently, and I think it's one of those "other times" where Usenet
> is concerned.
> Maybe one customer in twenty can explain what Usenet is. Out of
> those, perhaps less than half would even care if the service were
> dropped. Of that number, perhaps one in five would be upset enough to
> drop their service and go elsewhere (or even have the option to do
> Now let's say that an ISP figures that providing Usenet, especially
> binaries, takes up 3 or 4 percent of its operating expenses. The ISP
> has been looking at that for a while, and has been looking for an
> excuse to drop the service that would provide "cover" for the
> underlying profit motive. Along comes the "anti-predator" opportunity
> and they take advantage of it.
> "One customer in twenty" is five percent. "Perhaps less than half
> would even care" brings it back to 2.5 percent (or less.) The "one in
> five (who) would be upset enough to drop their service and go
> elsewhere" cuts that down to a half prcent or less.
Interesting. But ... all of your numbers are made up. So it means nothing.
Marty
wrote:
>
>Do you think an ISP would take a half percent reduction in revenue in
>exchange for a three or four percent reduction in operating expenses?
1. This in a industry where advances are taking place at the speed of
light. Comcast cannot take anything for granted here.
2. Advances mean lower costs and Comcast is already acting like
a dinosaur.
3. The Internet is growing and Comcast is acting like it is
shrinking. If you noticed they are placing an upper limit on the
amounts you can download.
Comcast is in the wrong business and doesn't know it. Their
size will not save them.
Marty
Ron May
You're absolutely correct that the numbers are made up. It was done
for illustrative purposes only. That said, however, I'm sure you'll
agree that Comcast out of a profit motive rather than the stated
"kiddie porn" excuse. Whatever the real numbers are, you can be sure
Comcast (as well as the other ISPs doing the same thing) have already
run the statistical models and concluded the corporate bottom line
would improve by dropping Usenet.
Ron May
If Comcast goes belly up for dropping Usenet, then I guess you'll be
proven right. On the other hand ........ <g>
Marty
wrote:
>On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 01:49:55 GMT, Marty <Sorry@No_Address.Com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:50:44 -0500, Ron May <may...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >Do you think an ISP would take a half percent reduction in revenue in
>> >exchange for a three or four percent reduction in operating expenses?
>>
>> 1. This in a industry where advances are taking place at the speed of
>> light. Comcast cannot take anything for granted here.
>>
>> 2. Advances mean lower costs and Comcast is already acting like
>> a dinosaur.
>>
>> 3. The Internet is growing and Comcast is acting like it is
>> shrinking. If you noticed they are placing an upper limit on the
>> amounts you can download.
>>
>> Comcast is in the wrong business and doesn't know it. Their
>> size will not save them.
>>
>>
>> Marty
>>
>
>If Comcast goes belly up for dropping Usenet, then I guess you'll be
>proven right. On the other hand ........ <g>
Their strategy is flawed - I am not saying they cannot change.
But think about it: Comcast is an Internet Service Provider who
doesn't like to offer Internet service. It doesn't look good no
matter what.
Marty
Ron May
We're talking about two completely different issues. You're critical
of what you feel is a bad business decision by Comcast. I'm saying
it's not about Comcast, but about the underlying problems of unbridled
capitalism.
Look around. It's not just Comcast. Most ISPs are dropping Usenet or
finding some other way to reduce cost or increase revenue by farming
it out, restricting bandwidth or charging extra. It's not even about
internet providers either, but about Enron, oil companies, mortgage
brokers, Wall Street and the whole capitalist structure that makes
suckers out of the "consumer" with homilies about "free enterprise"
while they pick the pockets of average people so others can walk away
with sums of money with so many zeroes it's beyond all comprehension.
They WANT you to believe it's all about keeping customers satisfied
and providing good value for products and services, brcause as long as
they can keep you distracted, you're not focusing on the real issues.
Sparky
Hash: RIPEMD160
Marty wrote:
>>If Comcast goes belly up for dropping Usenet, then I guess you'll be
>>proven right. On the other hand ........ <g>
>
> Their strategy is flawed - I am not saying they cannot change.
>
> But think about it: Comcast is an Internet Service Provider who
> doesn't like to offer Internet service. It doesn't look good no
> matter what.
Don't be absurd. Usenet is just another protocol, and one whose
popularity is in relative decline. It's not now, nor has it ever been,
an integral part of the Internet.
Comcast and a lot of other providers have made the decision to off-load
or simply drop Usenet. And they didn't do it in a vacuum or over night,
they considered it carefully. Whether that's a bad decision or not is
irrelevant, because they're the ones making it and they think isn't a
good one.
Your position is that their business will somehow fall off as a result,
but I suspect you've not been around long enough to remember Archie or
Gopher. Those two protocols also declined in use, and sites and
providers dropped support for them in hoards, to the point they're
almost extinct now. When you can find a Gopher server up and running
the information on it is often so dated it's useless. And guess what...
The Internet grew by leaps and bounds during that process, and Comcast,
along with every other major player in modern times also grew
accordingly. So your "dropping services means death" isn't just
logically flawed as a concept, it's technically inaccurate as a matter
of fact. You may like Usenet, I do too. I liked Gopher back in the day.
But times change. And people will change with them. The decision to
drop Usenet won't put a noticeable mark on *anyone's* bottom line, let
alone something as massive as Comcast. Especially when the service is
still obtainable, and you need Comcast or something like them to get
there.
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Ari
> Ari <DROPTheJo...@gmail.comCAPITALLETTERS> wrote the following in
> alt.comp.freeware on Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:50:13 GMT
>
>> $40 for three lines, $9.97 per month each. Yet we never used Comcast for
>> Usenet pulls. lol
>
> That's not bad at all.
As the Jesus Us Joose killed spake: "Ask and ye shall receive."
--
Meet Ari!
http://preview.tinyurl.com/3wh3hh
Marty
wrote:
>
>Don't be absurd. Usenet is just another protocol, and one whose
>popularity is in relative decline. It's not now, nor has it ever been,
>an integral part of the Internet.
>
>Comcast and a lot of other providers have made the decision to off-load
>or simply drop Usenet. And they didn't do it in a vacuum or over night,
>they considered it carefully. Whether that's a bad decision or not is
>irrelevant, because they're the ones making it and they think isn't a
>good one.
>
>Your position is that their business will somehow fall off as a result,
>but I suspect you've not been around long enough to remember Archie or
>Gopher. Those two protocols also declined in use, and sites and
>providers dropped support for them in hoards, to the point they're
>almost extinct now. When you can find a Gopher server up and running
>the information on it is often so dated it's useless. And guess what...
It is correct to say that Usenet is not part of the Internet but I
wouldn't dismiss it as just another protocol like Archie or Gopher.
Archie and Gopher were early Internet tools that were basically
replaced by better internet tools. This is not the case with Usenet
that came with e-mail and predates the Internet by over 10 years (Make
that over 20 years if you consider ARPANET).
Usenet is not owned by anyone and no one controls it. In my opinion,
the Comcast move to drop Usenet is about this very aspect of Usenet -
it is about control. They are dropping Usenet because they cannot
control it. That is why I am inclined to drop Comcast than put up
with this nonsense - this is more than just a business decision. And
let's agree to disagree on this if you want.
My recommendation to all those Usenet users who are Comcast
customers is to simply find another ISP who offers Usenet. If none is
available, then as a last resort consider obtaining access through the
web.
Marty