How do you make ringtones for your phone using only freeware?

[Arlen_Holder]

How do you make ringtones on Windows for your phone using only freeware?
and
(Do we still have to worry about blowing out the speakers nowadays?)

I just wrote this tutorial up (see below) for the Android ng, when I
realized that there may be better ways to make a ringtone for your phone,
from an existing audio recording.
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/HQPTDd0b2-s>

==== cut here for how I made the ringtone === the question is how do you?
I'm still confused about the problem and solution so please take this
intentionally helpful post as just a suggestion.

I'm not sure if the problem is:
o finding ringtones
o setting ringtones
o making ringtones

My prior post was on "finding" ringtones on the phone (dir /s/a/l/on/b).

Googling, I found this which purports to help people _set_ ringtones on
their phone to what they want those ringtones to be.
<https://www.androidcentral.com/adding-custom-ringtones-and-sounds-your-android>

If you want to _make_ a ringtone, bear in mind that it has been said
(somewhere) that you can _damage_ the phone's speakers with a badly
designed ringtone (is that true?).

These Android apps purport to create ringtones:
Zedge, by Zedge
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.zedge.android>
Ringtone Maker, by Big Bang Inc.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.herman.ringtone>

These solutions may help prevent speaker damage if that's really an issue:
<https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/tutorial_making_ringtones_and_ivr_messages.html>
<https://www.groovypost.com/howto/freeware/easily-make-your-own-ringtones-free-audacity/>
<https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-create-free-ringtones-using-audacity-2438830>
etc.

Even if you don't need to prevent damage, this solution below that I tested
on your ringtone is a general solution to make a ringtone out of anything.

1. Download this 3-second 16-bit ringtone from the list I provided earlier:
<https://www.redringtones.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/our-man-flint-ringtone.mp3>
Name: our-man-flint-ringtone.mp3, Size: 46393 bytes
SHA256: F0F400592F50094C4780ECA643E942C66219B24D86BC74AC8F1EECC3094F2394
2. GSpot freeware identifies the codec as "MPEG-1 Layer 3", 44100Hz 128kb/s
3. MP3Tag freeware shows no ID3 tags, so I added:
Album = ringtone, Title = Our Man Flint, Artist = Our Man Flint
4. Audacity freeware shows it to be a stereo file with some blank spots:
(It says 32 bit float, even though the original web page said 16 bit.)
5. Audacity:Analyze > Plot Spectrum (shows a frequency analysis chart)
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4429182ringtone03.jpg>
6. Audacity:Effect > Equalization (allows you to band pass filter)
o Attenuate to -24dB from 20Hz to 300Hz & from 1000Hz to 20000Hz
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5351927ringtone04.jpg>
7. Audacity:Effect > Compressor (reduce high:low volume delta)
Change the Ratio from 2:1 to 3:1
Uncheck the [_]Make-up gain for 0 dB after compressing
8. Audacity:Effect > Amplify
Change the "New Peak Amplitude (dB)" from 0.0 to -3 (dB) [or -2 dB]
9. Audacity:Tracks > Stereo Track to Mono (merges both tracks to mono)
10. Audacity:Effects > Fade In (on the first few seconds)
Audacity:Effects > Fade Out (on the last few seconds)
11. Trim & time shift (ringtones tend to repeat if less than about 20sec)
[It's really hard to describe because I can't find the "Trim"
selection that is clearly shown in the listed references!]
So if you can figure out why Audacity 2.1.3 doesn't have that
TRIM button, that would help others trim their audio to size.]
12. Audacity:File > Export > Export Audio > myringtone.mp3

I would put all my ringtones in the same Android folder:
/sdcard1/data1/audio/ringtone/myringtone.mp3

[R.Wieser]

Arlen,

> How do you make ringtones on Windows for your phone using only freeware?

...

> 12. Audacity:File > Export > Export Audio > myringtone.mp3

Let me get this straight: A ringtone on a Android phone is a straight
forward .MP3, and you have no clue to how to find a freeware MP3 editor for
on a PC ? Really ?

> I'm not sure if the problem is:
> o finding ringtones
> o setting ringtones
> o making ringtones

Right. You are *again* just naming EVERYTHING as being the possible cause
of your problem. No matter how unrelated the problem fields are.

... A problem which you did not even bother to describe !

In other words: You are *AGAIN* trying to attract someone to tell you
*everything*, effectivily demanding HUGE ammounts of effort being put into
it by them, only so you can pick out the tiny bits you actually need.


How many times do you need to do that - and lose people like Diesel, who
seems to know more about what you are doing that you will *ever* know -
before you realize that that only works for a short time, making you depend
on a steady stream of new suckers^whelpfull people (a stream which can
easily dry up) ?


STRONG SUGGESTION: Describe your current problem. What are you
*specifically* trying to do, and describe how it doesn't do that. That way
someone can give you to-the-point advice (while not wasting his time).

Yes, I'm still trying to help you - to fish for yourself (give a hungry man
a fish and he will be back tomorrow, again hungry).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

p.s.
MP3 overmodulation damaging your phones (headphones?) speakers ? Just
listen to the sound itself. If its sounds "tinny" than its most likely
overmodulated. If you do not trust that than pick yourself an MP3 editor
which either offers automatic compressing, or has an inbuild oscilloscope
(waveform viewer) where you can look at the waveform itself - and thus being
able to spot where flattens against the top or bottom.

[Wolf K]

On 2018-11-06 19:41, Arlen_Holder wrote:
> How do you make ringtones on Windows for your phone using only freeware?

Just like you make any piece of music. Just make sure you save it

--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"Gentics is not genealogy." (Gragham Coop, Ph.D.)

[Arlen_Holder]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 09:33:03 -0500, Wolf K wrote:

> Just like you make any piece of music. Just make sure you save it

The tutorials _clearly_ show modification of the frequencies to conform to
the technical limitations of the tiny tinny mobile phone speakers.

My knowledge on this is a decade old where it was _imperative_ that we
protect the tinny tiny speakers on the older mobile phones.

Things "may" have improved over time, where the preamp may be able to drive
larger speakers, they may be stereo, they may have a wider flatter
frequency response, etc.

The question will _only_ be understood by people competent enough to have
at least the knowledge I had a decade ago, where I'm only asking if things
are different nowadays.

How do you "make" a ringtone given any audio input?
o We can assume we start from an MP3 downloaded from Youtube with freeware
(youtube-dl.exe freeware is a good assumtpion, for Windows computers)
o What freeware do you use to "trim" the audio to ringtone length?
(Audacity freeware seems like a good choice but the TRIM GUI is bad)
o What freeware do you use for facing in (or fading out) for better sound?
(Audacity does have a decent FADE GUI, as opposed to the bad TRIM GUI)
o Do we still need to "merge" stereo tracks for undistorted output?
o Do we still need to "filter" out unreproducible high & low frequencies?
o Do we still need to "attenuate" loudness that can damage tiny speakers
o Does the "bitrate" matter anymore to the mobile device preamplifier?
etc.

Only 1 out of 100 people will even _comprehend_ the question.
Of those 1 out of 100, one out of 100 of them has any technical competence.

Those who can help with an answer need to be technically competent with
o Windows freeware
o Mobile phone hardware
o Audio frequency & power analysis

Does that 1 out of 1000 person even exist on this newsgroup?

[Arlen_Holder]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 09:44:56 +0100, R.Wieser wrote:

> Let me get this straight: A ringtone on a Android phone is a straight
> forward .MP3, and you have no clue to how to find a freeware MP3 editor for
> on a PC ? Really ?

Hi Rudy Wieser,

The question is on "making" ringtones for "mobile devices" with "freeware".

It's my fault that you miscomprehend the question about *making* ringtones.
It's not your fault that I didn't ask the question in a clear concise way.
So I apologize for asking the question in a confusing way.

Your response "implies" that you think "making" means only "downloading".
But downloading is only the 1st (of multiple) steps in "making" a ringtone.

Since you took the time to post a response, I'll patiently answer your
questions - but - we have to think ahead to see if it's even _worth_
answering your questions - because - well - let's face it - because
historically, Rudy, while I admit I don't know much, you consistently prove
you know less than I do - so all we'll end up doing is getting you to where
I was years ago - and then - since you have no helpful intent - it will
stop there (where I was about a decade ago) on ringtones.

Your historically unhelpful attitude and lack of knowledge is the problem.

So, even though I know almost nothing about *making* ringtones, it may be a
total waste of time explaining the little of what I do know to you because
you normally have zero intention to be helpful, and zero ability to add
value to what I will impart to you.
o To be clear, it's obvious you revel in worthless value-free complaints.
o But you don't (can't) usually add any value to what we knew a decade ago.

Given those are the facts, let's try to move forward in the off chance that
you actually _intend_ on being helpful to answer the questions posed about
*making* ringtones for use in mobile devices (which have tiny tinny
speakers).

----- Let's start fresh on the concept of *making* ringtones! -----
Let's clarify the concept of what it means to "make" a ringtone first.

How do you "make" a ringtone?
o You don't just "download" it - but you can 'start' from a download
o You often "trim" the audio, for example, to a certain time length
o You often "merge" stereo tracks, for example, for mono situations
o You often "filter" out frequencies unreproducible for tiny speakers
o You often "attenuate" loudness that can damage tiny speakers
o You often change the "bitrate" to better fit the drivers
o You often "fade in" or "fade out" so as to better ramp the volume
etc.

> Right. You are *again* just naming EVERYTHING as being the possible cause
> of your problem. No matter how unrelated the problem fields are.

What on earth are you talking about Rudy Wieser?
The question is on "making" ringtones for "mobile devices" with "freeware".

> ... A problem which you did not even bother to describe !

I admit, that I asked the question in a convoluted way, so it's my fault
you don't comprehend the question, not your fault.

To resolve that, the question is best rephrased to whether or not we need
to ensure that rintones, nowadays, don't damage the speakers.

I doubt you know any more than I do, Rudy Wieser, on that topic, but that's
the question, where my knowledge on this stopped about a decade ago when I
last created ringtones for Motorola Razr flip phones (where the problems
mattered).

Please do note that the *tutorials* I presented _do_ state that you _need_
to modify the ringtone, where those tutorials are _newer_ than my ancient
experience ... so it could very well be that we _still_ need to protect the
speakers.

But you're not the one who is ever going to be able to answer _that_
question, Rudy Wieser - but maybe someone else here (the 1 out of 1000 who
understands the technical issues) might know more than we do, Rudy.

> In other words: You are *AGAIN* trying to attract someone to tell you
> *everything*, effectivily demanding HUGE ammounts of effort being put into
> it by them, only so you can pick out the tiny bits you actually need.

While I realize Rudy, that you are _great_ at *complaining*, you are
actually terrible at anything even remotely technical.

So it's clear that you don't even _comprehend_ the question, and it is
clear that you have no intention of comprehending the question, but in the
remote change that you have a teeny tiny miniscule amount of helpful intent
still within your synapses, please read the helpful explanation I made
above about why you would want to protect your speakers, and how the
tutorials said to do that.

> How many times do you need to do that - and lose people like Diesel

Hehhehhehheh... I think it's apropos that you put yourself in the same
category of Diesel..... Thanks for the morning humor.

> who
> seems to know more about what you are doing that you will *ever* know -

Hehhehhehheh...

What's really interesting, Rudy, is that you actually _believe_ what you
just wrote, which, if you had the capacity to comprehend even the simplest
of facts, you'd see why that's patently hilarious that you think that way.

> before you realize that that only works for a short time, making you depend
> on a steady stream of new suckers^whelpfull people (a stream which can
> easily dry up) ?

That you think Usenet is filled with "suckers" is interesting, because you
are the one who consistently ruins any technical thread with your worthless
drivel.

This is a binary situation, Rudy:
o You either know more than I do about making ringtones,
o Or you don't.

Since it's clear that, consistently, you _never_ know more than I did even
decades ago, and it's clear that you have no helpful intent, then it's
clear that there is zero chance that you will even _comprehend_ the
question, Rudy.

Given that you can't comprehend the question, Rudy, there's even less
chance that you'll ever be able to _add value_ in a response.

If I'm not being clear with you Rudy, let me know, and I'll clarify.

> STRONG SUGGESTION: Describe your current problem. What are you
> *specifically* trying to do, and describe how it doesn't do that. That way
> someone can give you to-the-point advice (while not wasting his time).

Hi Rudy Wieser,
This is a valid suggestion as I did a crappy job of explaining the
question.

The question is clear as day in the SUBJECT line.

That's all you _really_ need (if you understood the subject line that is).

Q: How do you make ringtones for your phone using only freeware?

> Yes, I'm still trying to help you - to fish for yourself (give a hungry man
> a fish and he will be back tomorrow, again hungry).

Hehhehheh...

Now I see why you put yourself in the same category of Diesel.

To be blunt, the response from you is:
o I know the answer but I won't tell you ... na nana nana na.
o I want you to *beg* for that answer ... na nana nana na.
o If you beg, then _maybe_ just maybe ... I'll tell you!

Hehehehehe...

What's funny is that you come across (to adults) as:
o You don't even _comprehend_ the question for Christs sake!
o You don't have any _technical_ knowledge on the topic anyway.
o So you allude to what turns out to be completely imaginary knowledge!

> MP3 overmodulation damaging your phones (headphones?) speakers ? Just
> listen to the sound itself. If its sounds "tinny" than its most likely
> overmodulated.

Ummmm... that's kind of too late, Rudy.
That's like stepping in front of a moving train to see what it feels like.

> If you do not trust that than pick yourself an MP3 editor
> which either offers automatic compressing, or has an inbuild oscilloscope
> (waveform viewer) where you can look at the waveform itself - and thus being
> able to spot where flattens against the top or bottom.

WTF are you talking about Rudy?
Do you have _any_ concept whatsoever of what Audacity does?

HINT: If anyone does NOT know what Audacity does, they will _never_
comprehend this question well enough to add any value whatsoever.

[Big Al]

There is a app for android called 'ringtone maker' by big bang inc.
With it you can take any MP3 (or maybe other formats, I've not tried)
and trim them. It's much like audacity, but you can do it right on the
phone.

I had one phone that required the results to be in a special ringtone
folder but my latest one doesn't care, I just point to it, but I've kept
that folder concept because it's logical.

The app may be in apples store too, not sure, don't care.

And part of your questions: I've never been concerned about volume etc.
even with audacity doing it on my laptop. They all sound fine.

Al

[Arlen_Holder]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 14:56:09 -0500, Big Al wrote:

> There is a app for android called 'ringtone maker' by big bang inc.

I listed it in the original post, where I agree that it seems to create
ringtones for Android phones.

> With it you can take any MP3 (or maybe other formats, I've not tried)
> and trim them. It's much like audacity, but you can do it right on the
> phone.

I agree that, if either of the two Android programs I listed in the OP
work, that would be great for Android users. There may be issues with iOS
users though (I didn't check).

And, the conversion may be better done on Windows (which is generally where
I do all my file-editing of audio and video).

> I had one phone that required the results to be in a special ringtone
> folder but my latest one doesn't care, I just point to it, but I've kept
> that folder concept because it's logical.

You bring up a great point of the "ringtone" folder, where, that's a
complex issue in and of itself, as it appears (from the thread below
anyway) that it's not so simple the ringtone folder some apps use:
o Ringtone choice (by The Real Bev)
o <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/HQPTDd0b2-s>

> The app may be in apples store too, not sure, don't care.

I agree that any solution we come up with should work for all users,
whether they're on Apple iPods & iOS devices or Android devices.

> And part of your questions: I've never been concerned about volume etc.
> even with audacity doing it on my laptop. They all sound fine.

This is the real technical hurdle that we need someone who has knowledge
that I don't have to answer.

If you look at the tutorials, they _clearly_ still mention what I _knew_ to
be a fact a decade (or so) ago, which is that we _should_ modify audio
files so that they
o Play well on the tiny tinny speakers of mobile devices, and, so that they
o Don't damage mobile devices over time

Just "playing" doesn't mean _either_ of those two goals are met.

For example, you can have different stereo tracks, and you can simply drop
one track, and the file will still "play" on your phone - but it won't have
anywhere near the quality you might want (although, let's be realistic, it
is a ringtone after all).

Likewise, you can play on your phone, but at high volumes, it used to be
that playing the file could actually *damage* the tiny tinny speakers on
the old Motorola RAZR flip phones.

My point is that the metric of "just playing" isn't an intelligent one.
We need someone who knows the answers to the technical questions.
o What Windows freeware *converts* audio file formats, for example,
Shotcut, Super (old versions), Handbrake, AviDemux, AviSynth,
ffmpeg, lame, oxelon, totallyfreeconverter, etc.
o What freeware do you use for editing for better sound?
e.g., Audacity has a decent FADE GUI, but the TRIM GUI is difficult.

o Do we still need to "merge" stereo tracks for undistorted output?
o Do we still need to "filter" out unreproducible high & low frequencies?
o Do we still need to "attenuate" loudness that can damage tiny speakers
o Does the "bitrate" matter anymore to the mobile device preamplifier?
etc.

One quick related question, for example:
Q: Are most iOS/Android mobile devices mono or stereo nowadays?
Q: What are the decibel limits of their tiny tinny speakers?
Q: What are the frequency limits of their tiny tinny speakers?
etc.

[Arlen_Holder]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 20:34:12 -0000 (UTC), Arlen_Holder wrote:

> One quick related question, for example:
> Q: Are most iOS/Android mobile devices mono or stereo nowadays?
> Q: What are the decibel limits of their tiny tinny speakers?
> Q: What are the frequency limits of their tiny tinny speakers?

UPDATE:
o I'm not sure, but apparently most mobile devices have a separate tinny
tiny speaker specifically for the ringtone, which is mono (if you know more
about that, please advise).

o What this means, if correct, is that we can't just use any old audio as a
ringtone, as it won't sound right and/or it could damage the ringtone tinny
tiny speaker.

o First off, we will need to merge the two channels into a single channel.

o Apparently we may need to run a high pass filter, where the -3dB cutoff
frequency is somewhere between 0 Hz and 300 Hz to 400 Hz.

o Apparently we may need to run a low pass filter with a -3dB cutoff
frequency somewhere pretty low, like around 3000 Hz.

o The kbs doesn't matter anymore, as that was only a space-saving tactic,
where 128kbs is just fine.

o The loudness should be "normalized" with the "dc offset removed".

o You can fade in or out, as desired.

One minor problem is the GUI for TRIM is problematic in Audacity, so what I
generally do is delete and time shift instead of TRIM.

[Nil]

On 08 Nov 2018, Arlen_Holder <a%rle%20nh....@no.spam.net> wrote in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

> UPDATE:
> o I'm not sure, but apparently most mobile devices have a separate
> tinny tiny speaker specifically for the ringtone, which is mono
> (if you know more about that, please advise).
>
> o What this means, if correct, is that we can't just use any old
> audio as a ringtone, as it won't sound right and/or it could
> damage the ringtone tinny tiny speaker.
>
> o First off, we will need to merge the two channels into a single
> channel.
>
> o Apparently we may need to run a high pass filter, where the -3dB
> cutoff frequency is somewhere between 0 Hz and 300 Hz to 400 Hz.
>
> o Apparently we may need to run a low pass filter with a -3dB
> cutoff frequency somewhere pretty low, like around 3000 Hz.
>
> o The kbs doesn't matter anymore, as that was only a space-saving
> tactic, where 128kbs is just fine.
>
> o The loudness should be "normalized" with the "dc offset
> removed".
>
> o You can fade in or out, as desired.
>
> One minor problem is the GUI for TRIM is problematic in Audacity,
> so what I generally do is delete and time shift instead of TRIM.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. That's zero for
eight.

Keep up your usual good work.

[Libor Striz]

Arlen_Holder <a%rle%20nh....@no.spam.net> Wrote in message:
>> UPDATE: o I'm not sure, but apparently most mobile devices have a separate tinnytiny speaker specifically for the ringtone, which is mono (if you know moreabout that, please advise).

I have not noticed a phone with a dedicated ringtone speaker.
I have noted only phones with an earphone speaker and a
loudspeaker, with the latter used for music, aloud calls,
singing and notification.

But, there are independent HW audio channels like
Alarm
Multimedia
Voice call
System/Notification*
Ringer


See also the application A-Volume

https://a-volume-widget.en.uptodown.com/android

* The application has 4 or 6 volume sliders, but these 2 seem
interconnected , partially also with the ringer.

--
Libor Striz aka Poutnik ( a pilgrim/wanderer/wayfarer)

"Humour is the only effective weapon against stupidity."
Miloš Forman


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[Arlen_Holder]

On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 08:01:05 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> I have not noticed a phone with a dedicated ringtone speaker.
> I have noted only phones with an earphone speaker and a
> loudspeaker, with the latter used for music, aloud calls,
> singing and notification.

Thank you Libor Striz for being purposefully helpful by clarifying, where
it helps to pool our knowledge, since none of us are smartphone engineers.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3265064audio01.jpg>

It would be nice to get a definitive answer, where what you're saying is:
o There is a really tiny earphone speaker, and,
o There is the larger "loudspeaker"
o But there is no specific "ringtone speaker".

> But, there are independent HW audio channels like
> Alarm
> Multimedia
> Voice call
> System/Notification*

> Ringer'

Usenet is a way for us to pool our knowledge interactively, where, in
another thread, it has also been intimated that the "circuitry" is
different for those tasks (e.g., perhaps a different pre-amp for example),
where you seem to concur.

Since an "alarm" and a "ringtone" seem similar, but certainly "voice calls"
are quite different as are "multimedia", I wonder if we can come up with
the minimum number of "speaker circuits" that phones use to direct their
circuitry?

> See also the application A-Volume
> https://a-volume-widget.en.uptodown.com/android
> * The application has 4 or 6 volume sliders, but these 2 seem
> interconnected , partially also with the ringer.

This is a great suggestion to look at what sound apps control!

Here's a quick survey that I found just now by searching...

o Quick Settings, by F-Droid
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.bwx.bequick/>

o Volume Control, by Netroken
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=netroken.android.persistfree>

o Slider Widget, by hinterhofapps
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.hinterhofapps.sliderwidget>

o Volume Control Widget, by Adam Wolfe Gordon
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.xvx.volume>

o Precise Volume (+ EQ/Booster), by Phascinate
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.phascinate.precisevolume>

o Volume Lock & Mute, by Dieter Thiess
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.dieterthiess.stfu>

o Volume + (Easy Control) Free, by yapps
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=il.yavji.volumecontrolads>

o App Volume Control, by SpyCorp
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spycorp.appvolumecontrol>

o volume control widget for android, by Apps Prime
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.appsprime.controller.fx>

o Volume App Widget, jmjurado23
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.application.volumewidget>

o Volume Controller, by Gujarati Infoware
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bhbharesh.VolumeControler>

o Volume Widget, by WTW Electronics
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.william.soundwidget>

Running some of those in quick tests, I see these audio sliders exist:
1. Ringer volume
2. Notification volume
3. Media volume
4. Alarm volume
5. Voicecall volume
6. System volume
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3265064audio01.jpg>

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <ps3bbj$n4u$1...@dont-email.me>, Libor Striz
<poutnik4R...@CAPITALSgmail.com> writes:
[]

>But, there are independent HW audio channels like
>Alarm
>Multimedia
>Voice call
>System/Notification*
>Ringer
>
>
>See also the application A-Volume
>
>https://a-volume-widget.en.uptodown.com/android
>
>* The application has 4 or 6 volume sliders, but these 2 seem
> interconnected , partially also with the ringer.
>

I can't see that app. in the store, only on the above page, which only
has a download not an install button (does that mean I'd have to
"sideload" it?). The store does have hundred of other volume controls,
though. (Can't help wondering _why_.)

[Is there any way to get a listing of app.s on the store - such as
volume control ones - that shows parameters, such as size and what
accesses they demand, without going into each app.?]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

It is complete loose-stool-water, it is arse-gravy of the worst kind
- Stephen Fry on "The Da Vinci Code"

[Arlen_Holder]

On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 11:58:17 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> I can't see that app. in the store, only on the above page, which only
> has a download not an install button (does that mean I'd have to
> "sideload" it?). The store does have hundred of other volume controls,
> though. (Can't help wondering _why_.)

Hi J. P. Gilliver,
I went through the exact problem, as would anyone who tries to download
that app, that the suggested apps didn't exist on the main repositories.

Whenever I suggest an app, I list three things, to save others that hassle:
1. I list the name of the app (but these are almost never unique)
2. I list the developer of the app (this often is unique)
3. And I list the current URL to the app (which means it exists)

This is a common courtesy honed over decades of being on Usenet, where the
goals, always, is to collaboratively pool our knowledge interactively.

I found that app in question, as I recall, on a web site, but I didn't
trust it, so I didn't download _any_ of the volume-control apps that I
found off the two major sites, Play, and F-Droid. Nor do I recommend others
do so.

Here are the best similar apps I found, untested and in no order yet:

o Volume Lock & Mute, by Dieter Thiess
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.dieterthiess.stfu>

o Volume + (Easy Control) Free, by yapps
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=il.yavji.volumecontrolads>

o App Volume Control, by SpyCorp
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spycorp.appvolumecontrol>

o volume control widget for android, by Apps Prime
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.appsprime.controller.fx>

o Volume App Widget, jmjurado23
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.application.volumewidget>

o Volume Controller, by Gujarati Infoware
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bhbharesh.VolumeControler>

o Volume Widget, by WTW Electronics
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.william.soundwidget>

o Quick Settings, by F-Droid
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.bwx.bequick/>

Here is my output from just that last app in the list above:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3265064audio01.jpg>

Notice that means we need to code our Android apps for these outputs:
1. Ringer => loudspeaker?
2. Notification => loudspeaker?
3. Media => loudspeaker?
4. Alarm => loudspeaker?
5. Voicecall => callspeaker?
6. System => loudspeaker?

> [Is there any way to get a listing of app.s on the store - such as
> volume control ones - that shows parameters, such as size and what
> accesses they demand, without going into each app.?]

I agree it would be nice to have that, as some volume control apps asked
for access to contacts, while others didn't ask for access to anything they
didn't need.

My quick-pick heuristic method of finding decent apps is...
1. I google for "best volume control app" (or something like that)
2. I read those reviews and install those apps
3. If any app asks for too much permission, I ditch it.

Then, after installing, I follow a similar quick test algorithm...
1. I run the app and get an idea for what it does
2. If anything bothers me (e.g., pop up ads), I ditch it
3. I keep only the best of the best after that test

Then, during use, I continue to hone down the app list:
1. I put the similar apps in a folder, from best to worst
2. Each time an app does a good job, it moves up in the list
3. Each time an app does a bad job, it moves down in the list

There is more (much more) to the testing process, but that is a quickie.

For example, there is no known way to move the screenshot folder
to where it belongs, on the external SD card in a dir of your choice.
o Is there an free app that will change settings for /Pictures/Screenshots to the external SD Card?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/pe4pB3oAZ0E>

As a workaround to that bug, I'm testing screenshotters as we speak...
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4443440screenshot03.jpg>
Where the complete list (with working URLs) is in the related thread.

I practice what I preach because it's what a good Usenet citizen does.

[Libor Striz]

Arlen_Holder <a%rle%20nh....@no.spam.net> Wrote in message:

> Hi J. P. Gilliver,I went through the exact problem, as would anyone who tries to download that app, that the suggested apps didn't exist on the main repositories.

I apologize for troubles.

I have downloaded it in past in Google play store, but have not
found it while posting my previous post, so I posted at least
name/webpage.(posting from Android client, where web reviews are
less handy).

It was more or less just illustrative application, I guess there
are dozens of similar ones.

[Arlen_Holder]

On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 18:14:16 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> I apologize for troubles.

Hi Libor Striz,

Please don't worry about that, as we appreciate your helpful advice.

It's a minor issue for us to look up apps, so I don't think you need to
apologize. Sometimes, there are lots of apps and other times it matters
greatly which app one uses, so that's why I tried to find the one you
recommended.

When an app disappears from the repository, one always wonders why.

> I have downloaded it in past in Google play store, but have not
> found it while posting my previous post, so I posted at least
> name/webpage.(posting from Android client, where web reviews are
> less handy).

No problem for me. I listed a half dozen alternatives. It's always good to
go with a recommended app though, if it's on the repository, as the cost of
freeware is the huge expense in finding and testing to get the best one.

I generally only keep on my system the best single freeware app for any one
purpose, but that takes a lot of testing, so what I do, in practice, after
following the quick tests that I already noted, is I hone their position in
my dozen desktop folders (nobody ever needs more than a dozen, IMHO).

For example, I have about 350 installed programs, all of which fit easily
into about a dozen homescreen task-based folders that almost anyone can
copy effectively, where each folder is hierarchically organized by task:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_android_maps_01.jpg>

Where, over time, I delete the underperforming ones like a big company
sheds underperforming employees! :)

> It was more or less just illustrative application, I guess there
> are dozens of similar ones.

Yup. There are many in the repository. Just not that one. :)
It's always good to get a recommendation from other android users!

Back to the topic, it seems that this is the current status:
Q: Do you need to modify files so they don't damage your speakers?
A: Almost certainly the answer is yes, even today.
A: If not for damage, at least for quality (e.g., merging & normalization)

Q: Is a modern cellphone loudspeaker(s) stereo or mono?
A: Mono; although some appear to have specialized in faking stereo.

Q: Which sounds go to the earspeaker & loudspeaker(s)
1. Ringer => loudspeaker(s), earspeaker
2. Alarm => loudspeaker(s), earspeaker
3. Notification => loudspeaker(s), earspeaker
---
4. Media => loudspeaker(s)
5. System => loudspeaker(s)
6. Phone => loudspeaker(s), earspeaker

It turns out that there are other issues involved sometimes:
a. loudspeaker(s), earspeaker output
b. AUX output
c. Bluetooth output
d. WiFi output ?

As for the ringtone frequencies, I installed freeware frequency analyzers
to help me determine the frequency spectrum of professional ringtones.
o <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7759443audio02.jpg>

Thanks for using Usenet as a way to collaboratively improve our knowledge.

[Diesel]

"R.Wieser" <add...@not.available> news:pru8mu$ab3$1...@gioia.aioe.org

Wed, 07 Nov 2018 08:44:56 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> Arlen,
>
>> How do you make ringtones on Windows for your phone using only
>> freeware?
> ...
>> 12. Audacity:File > Export > Export Audio > myringtone.mp3
>
> Let me get this straight: A ringtone on a Android phone is a
> straight forward .MP3, and you have no clue to how to find a
> freeware MP3 editor for on a PC ? Really ?

They aren't sure how to do that or, create a ringtone from an already
existing sample without using the 'proper' settings so they don't
harm their android device. rofl.

>> I'm not sure if the problem is:
>> o finding ringtones
>> o setting ringtones
>> o making ringtones
>
> Right. You are *again* just naming EVERYTHING as being the
> possible cause of your problem. No matter how unrelated the
> problem fields are.
>
> ... A problem which you did not even bother to describe !
>
> In other words: You are *AGAIN* trying to attract someone to tell
> you *everything*, effectivily demanding HUGE ammounts of effort
> being put into it by them, only so you can pick out the tiny bits
> you actually need.

Yep.

> How many times do you need to do that - and lose people like
> Diesel, who seems to know more about what you are doing that you
> will *ever* know - before you realize that that only works for a
> short time, making you depend on a steady stream of new
> suckers^whelpfull people (a stream which can easily dry up) ?

Based on their posting history I've discovered so far, they consider
usenet to be full of new fish and so aren't concerned with running
out of options.

> Yes, I'm still trying to help you - to fish for yourself (give a
> hungry man a fish and he will be back tomorrow, again hungry).

I gave a considerable amount of thought to ignoring what they've
previously written, dismissing it as that of an immature child and
continuing with trying to help when reasonable to do so. I applaud
you for you're willingness to continue doing so. I'm not sure that I
will.



--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================
And he disappeared in a puff of logic.

[Diesel]

Arlen_Holder <a%rle%20nh....@no.spam.net>
news:prv8pk$q6i$2...@news.mixmin.net Wed, 07 Nov 2018 17:52:56 GMT in

alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 09:44:56 +0100, R.Wieser wrote:
>
>> Let me get this straight: A ringtone on a Android phone is a
>> straight forward .MP3, and you have no clue to how to find a
>> freeware MP3 editor for on a PC ? Really ?
>
> Hi Rudy Wieser,
>
> The question is on "making" ringtones for "mobile devices" with
> "freeware".

Yep. Simple enough question, large variety of available options. What
you'd call answers I suppose.

> Since you took the time to post a response, I'll patiently answer
> your questions - but - we have to think ahead to see if it's even
> _worth_ answering your questions - because - well - let's face it
> - because historically, Rudy, while I admit I don't know much, you
> consistently prove you know less than I do - so all we'll end up
> doing is getting you to where I was years ago - and then - since
> you have no helpful intent - it will stop there (where I was about
> a decade ago) on ringtones.

Yet, here you are, creating another n00bie question and answer thread
solely for your own personal benefit.

> Your historically unhelpful attitude and lack of knowledge is the
> problem.

I personally find it to be the other way around with you.

> How do you "make" a ringtone?

This should be good.

> o You don't just "download" it - but you can 'start' from a
> download o You often "trim" the audio, for example, to a certain
> time length o You often "merge" stereo tracks, for example, for
> mono situations o You often "filter" out frequencies
> unreproducible for tiny speakers o You often "attenuate" loudness
> that can damage tiny speakers o You often change the "bitrate" to
> better fit the drivers o You often "fade in" or "fade out" so as
> to better ramp the volume etc.

I can start from nothing, too, n00b. I know perfectly well how to
create outstanding sounding (for an mp3) if I do say so myself,
quality mp3s as well, Arlen. I have a considerable amount of
experience doing it, too.

I've been making ringtones for years for my friends; so that they
don't buy any. I've also taught several online and in person how to
do it, in a variety of ways. Some people are comfortable with
Audacity, others aren't. Almost any audio editing program can be used
to make a ring tone these days, Arlen.

>> Right. You are *again* just naming EVERYTHING as being the
>> possible cause of your problem. No matter how unrelated the
>> problem fields are.
>
> What on earth are you talking about Rudy Wieser?
> The question is on "making" ringtones for "mobile devices" with
> "freeware".

You snipped it, but they were addressing your list.

> I admit, that I asked the question in a convoluted way, so it's my
> fault you don't comprehend the question, not your fault.

Again, enough with the comprehension comments. We can see here how
yours is:

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=154114027600

> To resolve that, the question is best rephrased to whether or not
> we need to ensure that rintones, nowadays, don't damage the
> speakers.

Unless you're using something really awful hardware wise, you most
likely will not be able to harm the system. Incidently, this is a
freebie on me; you don't need to concern yourself with down mixing
anything; leave the stereo tracks as they are. Not all Android
devices are actually mono, and, you're taking away from those that
aren't by editing the track. Which reduces the awesome portability
factor of an mp3.

> I doubt you know any more than I do, Rudy Wieser, on that topic,
> but that's the question, where my knowledge on this stopped about
> a decade ago when I last created ringtones for Motorola Razr flip
> phones (where the problems mattered).

Arlen, You don't even wanna try a pissing contest with me concerning
analog/digital audio of present or my favorite, 70s/early 80s gear.
As with I.T things, to quote a friend, 'I'll walk the dog on you'

Your entire thread from what I've read so far is a complete waste of
time. You don't even understand the terminology you're using. :(

Bitrate for example, of all things, is the EASIEST term to
understand, yet you think you have to fuck with it to make it
'safer' for your phone. Please, Arlen, just stop with this nonsense.
You're a hindrance, not a benefit.

> Please do note that the *tutorials* I presented _do_ state that
> you _need_ to modify the ringtone, where those tutorials are
> _newer_ than my ancient experience ... so it could very well be
> that we _still_ need to protect the speakers.

Erm, no.

To create a ringtone, select your audio source, sample the section
you want to have as the ringtone (you cannot use the entire song, the
phone doesn't ring that long), save as an mp3. Store in the proper
folder, or, point your phone to the custom named one you went with
instead. Done deal. Simple.

> But you're not the one who is ever going to be able to answer
> _that_ question, Rudy Wieser - but maybe someone else here (the 1
> out of 1000 who understands the technical issues) might know more
> than we do, Rudy.

Cripes, please, give your 1 out of a 1000 nonsense a rest. Either
you're more of a dumbass than I think you are, or you live around
some really fucking stupid people. It's the only way I can think of
that you get such an off the wall ratio.

Actually, we can put this to a simple test, Arlen Do the people you
know come to you for help with their computers? For purposes of not
wishing to self incriminate Arlen, you don't have to answer. I'm
almost certain I know it already, anyway.

> So it's clear that you don't even _comprehend_ the question, and

A child could comprehend how to make a ringtone, Arlen. It's not
rocket science. Seems to be very new to you though. Why is that?

>> How many times do you need to do that - and lose people like
>> Diesel
>
> Hehhehhehheh... I think it's apropos that you put yourself in the
> same category of Diesel..... Thanks for the morning humor.

Same category?

>> who
>> seems to know more about what you are doing that you will *ever*
>> know -
>
> Hehhehhehheh...
>
> What's really interesting, Rudy, is that you actually _believe_
> what you just wrote, which, if you had the capacity to comprehend
> even the simplest of facts, you'd see why that's patently
> hilarious that you think that way.

Actually, what Rudy wrote is infact true, and, I can easily back it
up. As can others who've been reading threads who know me and/or my
background, that despite, decades as you claim, still seem to have no
idea who I am...Fascinating.

Arlen, I've already forgotten more about computers than you're ever
going to learn. Seriously.

I wouldn't be so quick to laugh if I were you Arlen, I've
demonstrated factual errors in nearly all of your posts with ease as
well as still refused to hold your hand and just give you the
answers. Answers in hindsight, had you apologized, I would have
handed over, without question.

In fairness, it wouldn't actually have been for your benefit, despite
you obviously benefitting; it was much more to do with the fact I
like proving people wrong, outright, wrong. Especially when they make
claims concerning what they think/don't think I know.

>> before you realize that that only works for a short time, making
>> you depend on a steady stream of new suckers^whelpfull people (a
>> stream which can easily dry up) ?
>
> That you think Usenet is filled with "suckers" is interesting,
> because you are the one who consistently ruins any technical
> thread with your worthless drivel.

Usenet is filled with suckers. I can provide you some mids to read,
if you'd like. I took advantage of some, at one point in the past,
Arlen. Serious, advantage.

> This is a binary situation, Rudy:
> o You either know more than I do about making ringtones,
> o Or you don't.

I suspect almost anyone knows more than you about doing it, Arlen.

> Since it's clear that, consistently, you _never_ know more than I
> did even decades ago, and it's clear that you have no helpful
> intent, then it's clear that there is zero chance that you will
> even _comprehend_ the question, Rudy.

I can't vouch for those claims, Arlen. I've read some of Rudys
previous posts as I have yours. You're projecting, again.

Knowledge you've claimed to have for decades huh? :) I don't believe
you. OTH, Lemme put my money where my mouth is concerning knowledge
I've previously claimed to have. You keep bringing up DOS commands so
much, you might enjoy some of these.

http://bughunter.it-mate.co.uk/core/

That's just some of my older, but, completely legit work, Arlen. I'd
really embarrass you if I showed you a url or two describing some of
the other things I've written, or what they did...Needless to say,
You don't, and never have, known anywhere near as much as I do about
the machine sitting in front of you, Arlen.

http://bughunter.it-mate.co.uk

That's the mainsite for an antimalware utility I wrote from scratch
and supported for three years, Arlen. During it's active time, it was
able to compete with Sample detection concerning 0day with the big
guys. Infact, many samples were collected after surviving the most
recent scans using the top products of the time. [g]

You have *nothing* on me, Arlen. And, you never will.

> Given that you can't comprehend the question, Rudy, there's even
> less chance that you'll ever be able to _add value_ in a response.
>
> If I'm not being clear with you Rudy, let me know, and I'll
> clarify.

How do you propose to do that when you required clarification?

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=154114027600

> The question is clear as day in the SUBJECT line.

As are the answers.

> Q: How do you make ringtones for your phone using only freeware?

There's *several* ways in which to do it, Arlen. Damn near any audio
editing application can be used to do it.

>> Yes, I'm still trying to help you - to fish for yourself (give a
>> hungry man a fish and he will be back tomorrow, again hungry).
>
> Hehhehheh...
>
> Now I see why you put yourself in the same category of Diesel.

I can tell by the ignorance you try to hide with your laughter, that,
you do not.

> To be blunt, the response from you is:
> o I know the answer but I won't tell you ... na nana nana na.
> o I want you to *beg* for that answer ... na nana nana na.
> o If you beg, then _maybe_ just maybe ... I'll tell you!

I requested nothing of the sort from you nor have I ever told you I
knew the answer, but, wouldn't tell you; a condition was applied. A
condition you yourself created. You refused to apologize, like a
mature adult would, so I didn't hold your hand and tell you what you
wanted to know. I let you work for it, and watched you fail.
Repeatedly, Fail.

> Hehehehehe...

See above.

>> MP3 overmodulation damaging your phones (headphones?) speakers ?
>> Just listen to the sound itself. If its sounds "tinny" than
>> its most likely overmodulated.
>
> Ummmm... that's kind of too late, Rudy.
> That's like stepping in front of a moving train to see what it
> feels like.

Unless you have the volume to max (or over amplified via third party
app) you have plenty of time to stop playback before risking ANY
hardware damage.

>> If you do not trust that than pick yourself an MP3 editor
>> which either offers automatic compressing, or has an inbuild
>> oscilloscope (waveform viewer) where you can look at the waveform
>> itself - and thus being able to spot where flattens against the
>> top or bottom.
>
> WTF are you talking about Rudy?

It should be obvious...

--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================

'Is' is the verb for when you don't want a verb.

[R.Wieser]

Diesel,

Thanks for the post, I enjoyed reading it. Even if it was just for
"schadenfreude" (yeah, I know. I should not be doing that ... )

And as I have set Arlens messages to go into write-only storage I read the
below for the first time and really LOLed in its literal sense:

>>> If you do not trust that than pick yourself an MP3 editor
>>> which either offers automatic compressing, or has an inbuild
>>> oscilloscope (waveform viewer) where you can look at the waveform
>>> itself - and thus being able to spot where flattens against the
>>> top or bottom.
>>
>> WTF are you talking about Rudy?

Not understanding what automatic compression might be (about) is one thing.
Not having any idea what an oscilloscope is - and not googeling it, which
was the reason I used the full word instead of the more common 'scope' - is
another thing. But him ranting about how I know absolutily nothing
together with that cracked me up.

Ofcourse, his response to my suggestion to listen for a "tinny sound" was a
good starter for it. He never heard of a volume knob I guess. Or that the
tinny sound happens *way* before actually damaging the speakers ...

That he didn't get that the volume might be already clipping against the
MP3's maximum values and thereby causing the same tinny sound even on low
volumes is forgivable. Even though I did mention the waveform viewer ...

So much for his "years" of "experience" I guess. Though I once read that
even someone having done the same thing day in, day out can boast about it
that way. Even though that someone didn't learn anything to it after the
first couple of days. :-)

I have to wonder though: years of experience, having created 10.000
tutorials at the same time (another of his claims), how did he find the time
to sleep and feed himself, let alone *live* ? It also means he must be,
assuming one tutorial every single working day and starting at age 18, (way)
over 50, but he still sounds like a 12 ...14 year old. How does he do that
? :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Diesel]

"R.Wieser" <add...@not.available> news:ps68v1$1fp5$1...@gioia.aioe.org

Sat, 10 Nov 2018 09:38:35 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> Diesel,
>
> Thanks for the post, I enjoyed reading it. Even if it was just
> for "schadenfreude" (yeah, I know. I should not be doing that ...
> )

ROFL. I probably shouldn't be either.

> Not understanding what automatic compression might be (about) is
> one thing. Not having any idea what an oscilloscope is - and not
> googeling it, which was the reason I used the full word instead of
> the more common 'scope' - is another thing. But him ranting
> about how I know absolutily nothing together with that cracked me
> up.

:)

> Ofcourse, his response to my suggestion to listen for a "tinny
> sound" was a good starter for it. He never heard of a volume
> knob I guess. Or that the tinny sound happens *way* before
> actually damaging the speakers ...

Aahahaha. Seriously though, when's the last time you actually hurt
the speakers because you didn't have enough time to turn the volume
down on a modern piece of gear? It's been awhile, right? LOL
Excluding car amps/conversions guys; let's be fair. [g]

> That he didn't get that the volume might be already clipping
> against the MP3's maximum values and thereby causing the same
> tinny sound even on low volumes is forgivable. Even though I did
> mention the waveform viewer ...

That you did. ROFL. Give him a cluebyfour, he just gets a headache.

> So much for his "years" of "experience" I guess. Though I once
> read that even someone having done the same thing day in, day out
> can boast about it that way. Even though that someone didn't
> learn anything to it after the first couple of days. :-)

Muahahaha.

> I have to wonder though: years of experience, having created
> 10.000 tutorials at the same time (another of his claims), how did
> he find the time to sleep and feed himself, let alone *live* ?
> It also means he must be, assuming one tutorial every single
> working day and starting at age 18, (way) over 50, but he still
> sounds like a 12 ...14 year old. How does he do that ? :-)

Oh man. I just opened that dew... excuse me.. I've a mess to clean
up.

--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================

Everybody needs a little love sometime; stop mudding and fall in
love!

[Arlen_Holder]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 07:08:48 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:

> Muahahaha.

Hi Diesel (and Rudy, and Nil),

Thank you for your intentionally helpful & very useful adult posts.
The amount of technically useful information you impart is astounding.
I'm sure everyone who reads tech details from the likes of you benefit.

In addition to your purposefully helpful technically deep posts, we made
good technical progress with actual commands in Audacity on actual MP3
files discussing actual frequencies going to actual speakers which have
actual specs, etc., in another newsgroup.

For example, we made good technical progress on the frequency cutoffs,
where at the lower frequencies we chop them out entirely at the knee, but
at the higher frequency points, we attenuate slowly.

In addition, those purposefully helpful and competent adult technical
experts advised we "normalize" and correct for dc offset throughout the
trimmed audio, but that we omit some of the other tasks previously
mentioned in the published tutorials.

For all to benefit, as always, from the on-topic tribal tech knowledge,
here are some snippets from that purposefully helpful adult conversation
on another related newsgroup this week.
====
Manufacturers may choose to direct Ringer/Alarm/Notification sounds to
both the loudspeaker and the earpiece speaker, in case one of them is
covered. A few devices feature two loudspeakers to produce some kind of
pseudo stereo - of course only in conjunction with pre-processing
tricks, as the distance of the speakers would be much too small for real
stereo. And it gets even more complicated, if you add in the headphone
jack, bluetooth audio and noise cancelling microphone(s).

This may be the reason why many smartphone SOCs provide discrete
interfaces for the different audio sources and do the distribution and
mixing in hardware.
====
Audacity is certainly a decent choice if you want to use freeware. It is
also available for all major platforms, not only windows.
====
Shouldn't make any difference if you merge channels beforehand or let the
phone's software do the same thing. They need to be merged at some
point, though, as the ringer speaker is almost always mono.
====
You should filter out low frequencies, because they may cause distortion.
Reproduction of high frequencies is usually quite dominant on small
speakers, so you may want to attenuate them to avoid sounding too obtrusive
====
I don't think you need to attenuate loudness. Normally, the phone's
software should limit loudness to a reasonable level.
You may want to normalize loudness, though (& compensate for dc offset).
====
The bitrate does not and never did matter.
Bitrate used to be a compromise between reproduction quality and storage
requirements. In an era, where phones have multiple gigabytes of internal
storage, there is no need to compromise anymore, let alone for a short
sound sample.
====
Yes, the Audacity Trim command's behavior is quite strange. I usually use
Cut, New, Paste instead when I'm happy with the current selection.
====
At least for a stereo track, the phone's software should be able to
handle the stereo to mono mixdown nicely.
However, if you are already in the process of editing the audio, there is
no point in keeping a ringtone in stereo.
====
The ringtone ringer is a completely different audio path in the software
and probably also in parts of the hardware. Which speaker it leads to, is
manufacturer-dependent (but it will likely be the same speaker used for
video and audio, just with different equalization).
====
A small phone speaker will likely not reproduce anything below 200Hz. If
you're lucky, lower frequencies are properly cut off by the phone's
software, if not, they will saturate the amplifier and cause distortion.
====
On the high frequencies, I would not cut them off, just attenuate them
somewhat to get a less obtrusive sound.
====
As for normalizing, basically, it is an automatic gain control, which
results in a similar loudness for all of your files.
====
Manufacturers may choose to direct Ringer/Alarm/Notification sounds to
both the loudspeaker and the earpiece speaker, in case one of them is
covered. A few devices feature two loudspeakers to produce some kind of
pseudo stereo - of course only in conjunction with pre-processing
tricks, as the distance of the speakers would be much too small for real
stereo. And it gets even more complicated, if you add in the headphone
jack, bluetooth audio and noise cancelling microphone(s).

This may be the reason why many smartphone SOCs provide discrete
interfaces for the different audio sources and do the distribution and
mixing in hardware.
====

[Nil]

On 12 Nov 2018, Arlen_Holder <a%rle%20nh....@no.spam.net> wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

> In addition to your purposefully helpful technically deep posts,
> we made good technical progress with actual commands in Audacity
> on actual MP3 files discussing actual frequencies going to actual
> speakers which have actual specs, etc., in another newsgroup.

Unnecessary waste of time.

> For example, we made good technical progress on the frequency
> cutoffs, where at the lower frequencies we chop them out entirely
> at the knee, but at the higher frequency points, we attenuate
> slowly.

Unnecessary waste of time.

> In addition, those purposefully helpful and competent adult
> technical experts advised we "normalize" and correct for dc offset
> throughout the trimmed audio, but that we omit some of the other
> tasks previously mentioned in the published tutorials.

Unnecessary waste of time.


<..rest of verbal masturbation deleted..>

You're welcome.

[Diesel]

Arlen_Holder <a%rle%20nh....@no.spam.net>
news:pschnj$gs1$1...@news.mixmin.net Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:45:08 GMT in

alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 07:08:48 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:
>
>> Muahahaha.
>
> Hi Diesel (and Rudy, and Nil),
> Thank you for your intentionally helpful & very useful adult
> posts.

You're very welcome Arlen.

> The amount of technically useful information you impart is
> astounding. I'm sure everyone who reads tech details from the
> likes of you benefit.

When I share such posts, I'm sure others who have interests along the
same lines as my own do find them useful. Why wouldn't they? I also
realize that my technical or in your case, not even really semi
technical posts are, well, let's be honest here, well above your
paygrade; so what's the point in posting really technical ones to
you?

If you'd like though, I can hunt down a few MIDs of some very
technical posts I'm responsible for authoring, if you want to glaze
your eyes over or allow me to make the point above hit home, harder.

>
> In addition to your purposefully helpful technically deep posts,
> we made good technical progress with actual commands in Audacity
> on actual MP3 files discussing actual frequencies going to actual
> speakers which have actual specs, etc., in another newsgroup.

Who's we Arlen? You didn't contribute anything to the conversation.
Rather, you've taken what you feel are the 'best bits' and sort of,
compiled it into a faq or guide.. oh yea, what you're calling tribal
knowledge. At no time have I seen you credit the authors from which
you copied the material present, though. I guess you think because
it's posted to usenet, it's automatically public domain material?

> For example, we made good technical progress on the frequency
> cutoffs, where at the lower frequencies we chop them out entirely
> at the knee, but at the higher frequency points, we attenuate
> slowly.

Arlen, let me ask you something. Have you ever just copied a full
length song that you've played and enjoyed on your PC over to your
phone just to see how it sounds on the phone? Just for shits and
giggles.. ever done such a piss simple test?

> In addition, those purposefully helpful and competent adult
> technical experts advised

Of which you are none...

> we "normalize" and correct for dc offset
> throughout the trimmed audio, but that we omit some of the other
> tasks previously mentioned in the published tutorials.

dc offset is what, exactly, preferably in your own words, Arlen? :)

> For all to benefit, as always, from the on-topic tribal tech
> knowledge, here are some snippets from that purposefully helpful
> adult conversation on another related newsgroup this week.

And there we go. the tribal knowledge file I wrote about above. You
didn't contribute ANY of the material. You harvested it by suckering
(hey, that's infact what you succesfully accomplished) people in the
other newsgroups to give it to you.

[big snip]

--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================

Faith without works is dead. - James 2:26

[Arlen_Holder]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 17:27:17 -0500, Nil wrote:

> Unnecessary waste of time.

Hi Nil,
You're very special indeed.
What's appreciated, Nil, is that you know all the answers a priori.

Like many on Usenet who know all the answers, you keep them to yourself.
We hoi polloi on Usenet are lucky to have someone like you around to tell
us where we're wrong.

That's why I appreciate your purposefully helpful posts so very much.

Unlike you, all I can do is augment information from the experts:
<https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/tutorial_making_ringtones_and_ivr_messages.html>
for example:
"Using the Effect > Compressor will reduce the difference between high and
low volume which allows you to make the ringtone louder overall. This suits
small cellphone speakers which may not be able to handle large changes in
dynamic range. You'll probably want to move the Ratio slider to right of
its default setting of 2:1 to give stronger compression."

"Many phone speakers cannot reproduce very low frequencies so consider
attenuating them (a gradual reduction in the amplitude of the sound level),
especially if you are making a ringtone from an original high quality music
file. On opening Effect > Equalization you'll notice a horizontal line at 0
dB, meaning that at that position, no changes are made to the volume of any
frequencies. A curve can be created using the mouse, clicking at various
points above or below the line. For ringtones, bring the line down to -24
dB on the vertical axis for the low frequencies from 30-300 Hz on the
horizontal axis. You may want to increase the lower frequencies from 300 Hz
to say 600 Hz by dragging them above 0 dB, then reduce the highest
frequencies above say 10,000 Hz. This should make the sound somewhat richer
and less "tinny" on a small cellphone speaker by emphasizing the frequency
range it can reproduce best."

In addition, this set of expert advice is not for ringtones specifically,
but for improving all audio recordings (where you, Nil, can ignore this
reference as I'm sure you know everything already).
<https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/how-to-process-vocals-for-an-amazing-professional-sound--audio-463>

Since I can only hope to impart the immense knowledge you have,
folks may benefit from this Carla Schroder Audacity book
<https://isidore.co/calibre/get/PDF/Schroder%2C%20Carla-The%20Book%20of%20Audacity_4172.pdf>
where Chapter 10: Making Your Own Ringtones, p195, will be of specific
interest to everyone other than Nil (who already knows everything there is
to know).

[Nil]

On 12 Nov 2018, Arlen_Holder <a%rle%20nh....@no.spam.net> wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

> Like many on Usenet who know all the answers, you keep them to
> yourself. We hoi polloi on Usenet are lucky to have someone like
> you around to tell us where we're wrong.

I've been recording and processing audio for decades. I'm happy to talk
about it with anybody... except you. I'm really not interested in
helping you jerk off.

[Arlen_Holder]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 23:58:37 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:

> At no time have I seen you credit the authors from which
> you copied the material present, though. I guess you think because
> it's posted to usenet, it's automatically public domain material?

Hi Diesel,
Thanks for that critique of the information I collected & posted
which answer the questions I had asked on how to properly create ringtones
nowadays.

I didn't see any suggestions from you that would add to the technical
steps, so, at this point, you and Nil are the best there is at that.

You did ask personal questions, like who provided that information.
If you really need that author's name, it's "Hergen Lehmann", where his
posts are part of the public record on ringtones that I had copied
faithfully.

> Arlen, let me ask you something. Have you ever just copied a full
> length song that you've played and enjoyed on your PC over to your
> phone just to see how it sounds on the phone? Just for shits and
> giggles.. ever done such a piss simple test?

Hi Diesel,
I'm not sure how your personal questions add to our tribal knowledge on how
to properly create ringtones nowadays. But to answer your questions...

I have many thousands of MP3 songs on both my PC and on my mobile devices.
That means desktops, iPods, iPads, & Android devices have those MP3 songs.

But how many songs I have doesn't change the technical question, which is
how do properly make a ringtone from any one of those songs specifically
for use on the tinny tiny ringtone speakers of a modern mobile device.

Luckily, I Hergen Lehmann and I have answered that question, in detail,
supplying the facts and documents we unearthed, such as this 2011 book
which has an entire chapter (page 195, Chapter 10) on making ringtones:
<https://isidore.co/calibre/get/PDF/Schroder%2C%20Carla-The%20Book%20of%20Audacity_4172.pdf>

In addition, Diesel, you may benefit (on your sophomoric dc offset
questions, for example), from reading the Audacity manual itself, paying
special attention to the section on how to manage dc offset parameters:
<https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/tutorial_making_ringtones_and_ivr_messages.html>

[Arlen_Holder]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 20:14:53 -0500, Nil wrote:

> I've been recording and processing audio for decades. I'm happy to talk
> about it with anybody... except you. I'm really not interested in
> helping you jerk off.

It's truly wonderful that you have so much imaginary knowledge, Nil.

[Arlen_Holder]

On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 05:00:37 -0000 (UTC), Arlen_Holder wrote:

> It's truly wonderful that you have so much imaginary knowledge, Nil.

As an example of the wealth of imaginary knowledge Nil has, this is just
the one section in the aforementioned book on how to properly use the
Audacity TRIM command to cut out a 20-second ringtone from a much longer
MP3 audio file.
<https://isidore.co/calibre/get/PDF/Schroder%2C%20Carla-The%20Book%20of%20Audacity_4172.pdf>

"If you need to create a ringtone of a specific length, such as 20
to 30 seconds, select a 20- or 30-second portion of the track to use.
Here is a slick trick for precisely measuring your selection length:
Position the Selection tool at the beginning of your clip. Go to the
Selection toolbar, select the 'Length' radio button, make sure
'Snap To' is not checked, and enter how many seconds long you want
your clip to be. If you're a bit shaky with the mouse, you can use
the arrow keys on your keyboard to move the cursor. Figure 10-1
shows how to use this method to create an exactly 20-second clip.
Leaving your clip selected, select Edit > Trim (or press CTRL - T )
to cut away the excess."

They don't talk about the need then to use the F5 (Time Shift) command
to slide the beginning of the now-trimmed area to the zero starting point,
but they do go on for an entire chapter of how to properly modify the MP3
so that it conforms to the specs of what a ringtone should technically be.

[Diesel]

Nil <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net>
news:XnsA998CDF9...@wheedledeedle.moc Tue, 13 Nov 2018

I have no doubt that you have a considerable amount more detailed
knowledge concerning those subjects than I have enough time left to
learn. I may, if alright with you ask a question about the subjects
from time to time. Thanks for your consideration either way.

For the purpose of clarification (actually, it's mainly for my own)
when you wrote MID: <XnsA998B18F...@wheedledeedle.moc>
"Unnecessary waste of time." in response to several of Arlens
smartass replies to me.. was that in agreement with what I previously
wrote on the subject based on your far longer experience, and, as I'd
expect, superior knowledge on the subject, or, something else
entirely?

--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================

There is no such thing as an ordinary cat.

[Nil]

On 13 Nov 2018, Diesel <m...@privacy.net> wrote in alt.comp.freeware:

> I have no doubt that you have a considerable amount more detailed
> knowledge concerning those subjects than I have enough time left
> to learn. I may, if alright with you ask a question about the
> subjects from time to time. Thanks for your consideration either
> way.

Sure, if you want. I don't have any special magical knowledge, I've
just been doing it for a long time and learned by trial and error, and
by knowing a few people who know a lot more than I do. It's all
practical knowledge based on experience. I'm a musician with a small
bedroom studio where I record my own stuff, mix other people's music,
and transfer vinyl and tape to digital.

> For the purpose of clarification (actually, it's mainly for my
> own) when you wrote MID:
> <XnsA998B18F...@wheedledeedle.moc> "Unnecessary waste of
> time." in response to several of Arlens smartass replies to me..
> was that in agreement with what I previously wrote on the subject
> based on your far longer experience, and, as I'd expect, superior
> knowledge on the subject, or, something else entirely?

No, I hadn't read your post yet, but I just did. You're right on all
counts. I usually ignore that dolt's threads, but this one was so
extra-stupid I couldn't resist. I mean, really, what kind of idiot
would over-complicate making a friggin' ringtone? And then write
hundreds of lines of unnecessary, poorly understood, out-of-context,
and just plain wrong "advice" about something that needs a fraction of
that at most? Does he really think anybody will read that crap? It's
all just desperate, self-aggrandizing busy work to keep his hands in
motion and attract attention (not unlike public masturbation.)

To make a ring tone:

1) pick an attention-getting bit of digital music.

2) use an audio editor like Audacity or any of the many tools
specialized for this purpose. Trim out a 10 - 30 second excerpt. Fade
the ends in and out if you want. Most clips need no processing of any
kind unless they are very quiet, in which case you might want to
normalize the clip. No other processing is needed. EQ is unnecessary.
Folding down to mono is unnecessary. Removing DC offset is unnecessary.
You cannot damage a phone with a music file.

3) Save as a medium-quality MP3 or OGG. It's a ringtone for a cell
phone, for God's sake - high audio quality is not the goal or even
desireable.

4) Transfer to your phone using your favorite method.

The End.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 15:51:27 -0500, Nil wrote:

> To make a ring tone:
>
> 1) pick an attention-getting bit of digital music.
>
> 2) use an audio editor like Audacity or any of the many tools
> specialized for this purpose. Trim out a 10 - 30 second excerpt. Fade
> the ends in and out if you want. Most clips need no processing of any
> kind unless they are very quiet, in which case you might want to
> normalize the clip. No other processing is needed. EQ is unnecessary.
> Folding down to mono is unnecessary. Removing DC offset is unnecessary.
> You cannot damage a phone with a music file.
>
> 3) Save as a medium-quality MP3 or OGG. It's a ringtone for a cell
> phone, for God's sake - high audio quality is not the goal or even
> desireable.
>
> 4) Transfer to your phone using your favorite method.

Thanks for posting that humorous description, which is exactly what I would
have expected from you, Nil.

The great thing about people like you, Nil, (of which there are many on
Usenet), is that your vast imaginary knowledge is overwhelmingly empty when
it comes time to actually state anything of use to anyone else.

What you wrote above, _everyone_ knew a decade ago.
A child could easily have written what you wrote, Nil.

Hint: There's actually more to flying an airplane than just wiggling the
controls, where, for you, the instruction manual is (a) take off (b) fly
around, and then (c) land, if the instructions are to be useful.

[she...@outlook.com]

Showed up again? Another Plonk!

[Diesel]

Nil <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net>
news:XnsA999A14F...@wheedledeedle.moc Tue, 13 Nov 2018

20:51:27 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> On 13 Nov 2018, Diesel <m...@privacy.net> wrote in
> alt.comp.freeware:
>
>> I have no doubt that you have a considerable amount more detailed
>> knowledge concerning those subjects than I have enough time left
>> to learn. I may, if alright with you ask a question about the
>> subjects from time to time. Thanks for your consideration either
>> way.
>
> Sure, if you want. I don't have any special magical knowledge,
> I've just been doing it for a long time and learned by trial and
> error, and by knowing a few people who know a lot more than I do.
> It's all practical knowledge based on experience. I'm a musician
> with a small bedroom studio where I record my own stuff, mix other
> people's music, and transfer vinyl and tape to digital.

Nice...The gift of music creation wasn't passed to me. I'm unable to
sing or play any musical instruments. Various relatives oth do have
it. I've done a small amount of mixing and alot of transferring from
one to another, but, not for audiophile preservation purposes in so
much as they were client requests.

> To make a ring tone:
>
> 1) pick an attention-getting bit of digital music.
>
> 2) use an audio editor like Audacity or any of the many tools
> specialized for this purpose. Trim out a 10 - 30 second excerpt.
> Fade the ends in and out if you want. Most clips need no
> processing of any kind unless they are very quiet, in which case
> you might want to normalize the clip. No other processing is
> needed. EQ is unnecessary. Folding down to mono is unnecessary.
> Removing DC offset is unnecessary. You cannot damage a phone with
> a music file.
>
> 3) Save as a medium-quality MP3 or OGG. It's a ringtone for a cell
> phone, for God's sake - high audio quality is not the goal or even
> desireable.
>
> 4) Transfer to your phone using your favorite method.
>
> The End.

Very well put.

--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================

Beware of Quantum Ducks! Quark! Quark!