Deceptive Practices: Huntersoft

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Susan Bugher

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Aug 16, 2003, 3:56:27 PM8/16/03
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Deceptive Practices: Huntersoft

Unknown Device Identifier is here:
http://www.zhangduo.com/udi.html

Unknown Devices is here:
http://www.halfdone.com/Development/UnknownDevices/

the author of Unknown Devices says his program has been stolen:
http://www.halfdone.com/SOTW/UnknownDevicesRip/

from that link:

<quote>
I wrote Jacques Dubois ( mailto:kangf...@etang.com )
at Huntersoft ( http://www.zhangduo.com )
</quote>

Please read the information below and look at alt.comp.freeware threads
that relate to this.

I see a pattern of deceit including posts to the Pricelessware List
button and alt.comp.freeware where the poster fails to mention his
vested interest.

I think checking into the known web sites and email addresses in more
depth would yield additional information . . .


Susan

============

The Pricelessware list includes:

WinDriversBackup Personal Edition
http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/PL2003SYSTEMUTILITIES.htm#W125

<quote>
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 08:38:26 +0000
From: "Jacques Dubois" <jacqu...@hotmail.com>
To: li...@pricelessware.org

Dear Sir,

I found the software WinDriver Expert v1.70 on your website, however,
after I searched the Internet, I found the updated version of the
software, version 1.90.

I found four download links to WinDriver Expert 1.90,

http://www.zhangduo.com/drvexp19.zip
http:/www.zhangduo.com/windriverexpert.zip
http://www.zhangduo.com/WindriverExpert.zip
http://www.zhangduo.com/drvexp.zip

Best REgards,
Jacque Dubois
</quote>

At the time I thought the person who sent this message was confused
(there is no WinDriver Expert on the Pricelessware site.)

Now I think it was an attempt to get the WinDriversBackup links changed
to the links in the email.

This message was posted to the newsgroup:

<quote>
Subject: Windriver expert freeware
Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware
Date: 2002-07-25 08:17:23 PST

User's Manual for WinDriver Expert v1.70
(C) Copyright 2001-2002 Jacques ZHANG
E-mail: apply...@etang.com
Website: http://busitran.n3.net

SNIP
[License Agreement]
SNIP
[Contact the author]

E-mail: apply...@etang.com
Language: English, French or simplified Chinese.

[Homepage]

http://busitran.n3.net

[Release Date]

June 6, 2002
another downloading link:http://site.voila.fr/magitran/windrvexpert.zip
</quote>

Note the @etang.com domain name above and in the posts below.

<quote>
Subject: Re: WinDriver Expert ripe off WinDriversBackup website??
Date: 10 Jun 2003 17:59:59 -0700
From: kangf...@etang.com (Jacques)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware

Hi, guys,

I have to say WinDriverBackup software produced by Jermar.com is a piece
of trash !!! The software extracts the driver files incompletely. You
might compare the number of extracted and backed up driver files,
WinDriver Expert usually extracts and backs up more than
WinDriverBackup, the trash !

I've put "WinDriver Expert" into my personal tool kit CD.

However, when restore drivers, we don't have to pay Zhang Duo,
Huntersoft, the registration fee $29.00. We might use the Hardware
Wizard provided by Microsoft Windows Control Pannel to restore each
drivers.

All in all, a great utility, I love "WinDriver Expert". If I had more
money, I would rather register the "My Drivers" for a change.

Do you agree ?

I don't know who copied who as far as web page is concerned. But I am
sure that "WinDriver Expert" is the first driver backup utility that
came to my mind.
</quote>


<quote>
From: "Hunter Parker <hunte...@etang.com>" <Hunter Parker
(hunte...@etang.com)
Subject: No one can steal your online articles anymore!!
Newsgroups: comp.software.shareware.announce
Date: 2001-06-11 19:00:38 PST


The Age of Copy and Paste on Internet is OVER!!

All your articles on Internet can be copied and pasted to other
websites, such as articles, news, research reports, and s
o on. The anonyms steal your hard working easily! Don't you angry?! What
do you do for that?

Though there are some encrpytion softwares, they can only encry HTML
source and protect scripts in webpages. As for prote
cting online articles, they are all useless.

Now, as it is said, the age of COPY and Paste on Internet will end!
No one can steal your online productions anymore!

Because "Homepage Content Guard" is coming, a wonderful shareware!
http://www.softcome.com

"Homepage Content Guard" is not only a latest tool for protecting
homepage content, but also a TEXT to HTML convertor. It
uses a NEW method basing on latest Internet Patent. After protected by
"Homepage Content Guard", homepages are viewed as
same as before. But when Internet users copy or print the protected
homepage, they can only get the garbage text.

* A super tool for protecting homepage content
* A batch tool to convert TEXT files to HTML files
* Deal with TEXT files in many languages
* Support and provide many templates
* Easy-to-use style interface

It's so Cool! :)

"Homepage Content Guard" can be used in almost all kinds of websites.
Such as online author's websites, news centers, new
spapers, research centers, and so on. It will take effect in protecting
online copyright.

Please visit http://www.softcome.net for more details.


Homepage Content Guard
http://www.softcome.com
http://www.softcome.net
--------------------------------------------------
News Release from webattack.com
http://www.webattack.com/get/hpcguard.shtml
6/6/2001

Homepage Content Guard 1.1
protect your site content

Homepage Content Guard is a new tool for protecting your web site text
content, not the HTML source, but the actual writt
en content. It uses a patented method to "encrypt" your content, which
still allows for regular viewing of the page in a
browser, but produces complete "garbage" when the user is attempting to
print or copy the page. It can be useful for many
web sites, such news centers, newspapers, research centers, and so on.
The program uses text input which it converts to
HTML based on a template.

Homepage Content Guard actually uses a rather simple but yet ingenious
approach. The text on that is displayed on the pag
es, is not really encrypted but actually contains extra characters
instead of spaces. These characters use the same color
as the page's background and are therefore invisible to the viewer.
However, when you copy or print the page, colors are
ignored and the entire text (including the previously invisible space
letters) is copied or printed, which produces a co
mpletely unusable result. At the same time, since it not really uses any
actual encryption, it is compatible with any kin
d of browser.
</quote>


I went to:

http://www.softcome.com/contact.htm

<quote>
Wan...@softcome.com
This website and all products on it belong to Wang Hui, whose English
name is Hunter Wang. Please contact Mr. Wang about product development
or copyright.
</quote>

I wonder what relationship Huntersoft and Hunter Wang have.

longshotjohn7

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Aug 16, 2003, 4:09:32 PM8/16/03
to
Susan Bugher wrote:
>
> I wonder what relationship Huntersoft and Hunter Wang have.

Just gonna make me say it, huh? Ok.
A soft wang??????????

--
longshotjohn 7

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/hot2trot


The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but
because of those who look on and do nothing. --Albert Einstein

Susan Bugher

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Aug 16, 2003, 7:22:36 PM8/16/03
to
longshotjohn7 wrote:
>
> The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but
> because of those who look on and do nothing. --Albert Einstein

Nice tag line. :)

The Huntersoft guy posted to alt.comp.freeware with information about a
program on his site and didn't identify himself as the author - that's
happened before with other posters - but a visit to the site usually
makes the relationship clear - and someone posts a follow-up post
mentioning the relationship - then there is likely to be a "oh, yeah,
did I forget to mention that" post from the author.

Our *friend* goes way beyond forgetting to mention a detail or two. IMO
he's crapped in our backyard and I'd like to make sure we call him on it
if he tries it again.

Here's another one of his posts as an example of what I mean. (His
program is WinDriver Expert. The PW2003 program is WinDriversBackup -
note that it's misspelled below - as WinDriverBackup)

</quote>
From: Jacques (kangf...@etang.com)
Subject: WinDriver Expert backup driver files twice more
than WinDriverBackup
Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware
Date: 2003-06-10 18:47:32 PST


Hey guys,

I found two freeware claiming to backup driver files. Let's see
their performance.

-= Driver Backup Freeware Utility Race =-

WinDriver Expert produced by Huntersoft,
http://www.zhangduo.com/driverbackup.html
WinDriverBackup 2002 by Jermars,
http://www.jermar.com/wdrvbck.htm

-=======================================-

WinDriver Expert v1.90 v.s. WinDriverBackup 2002

OS: Windows 98/98se/ME/NT4/2K/XP/.net Windows
98se/ME/2K/XP
Size: 476 KB 2.44 MB
Installer: No, zip distribution Install Shield
installer
Driver backup: a bit slow fast
Backup Acurracy: Complete Incomplete
Driver restore: 3 ways to restore No restoration
Driver install: An embeded installer No installer
Driver deletion: Available Not Available
Driver Update: PNP ID matching with DB Unavailable
Driver Info: Available Not available
Info Printing: Not Available Available
User's Manual: Detailed with pictures Not well-designed
Tech Support: Within 24 hours 24/7 Not Clear
Web site: Well Designed Hacker Style
Shareware version: My Drivers v2.11 Jermar WDB Pro 2002
Shareware price: $29.00 $14.95
Trial period 15-day free trial 14-day free trial
Manufaturer: Huntersoft Jermar
Country: FRANCE CANADA

Tests with NVidia Geforece 4 MX 440SE Adapter driver
No. of backup files: 221 files 146 files

Tests with NVidia Geforece 2 MX 200 Adapter driver
No. of backup files: 191 files 121 files

Tests with Intel pro/100 VM NIC Adapter driver
No. of backup files: 8 files 5 files

Tests with Conexant HSF V92 56K Modem driver
No. of backup files: 19 files 7 files

Tests with SoundMax Integrated Digital Audio driver
No. of backup files: 12 files 5 files

Any idea ?
My choice is "WinDriver Expert v1.90", however, I will not buy the
Shareware version "My Drivers v2.11". Give you a tip, when you
reinstall your Windows system, you might use Windows Hardware Wizard
to restore your backed up driver files. However, if you don't want to
go into such technical operations, pay Huntersoft $29 for a
registration for the Shareware version. Well, I will never pay them.
</quote>


I think it would be a very good idea to put a little information on the
Pricelessware site - to let him know we don't appreciate these tactics.

Comments please.

Susan

»Q«

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Aug 16, 2003, 7:43:46 PM8/16/03
to
Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in
<news:3F3E8C6B...@kvi.net>:

> Deceptive Practices: Huntersoft


>
> I see a pattern of deceit including posts to the Pricelessware
> List button and alt.comp.freeware where the poster fails to
> mention his vested interest.

Other newsgroups as well. There is no doubt that the Jacques who
posts here and elsewhere recommending various Hunter Software
products is Zhang Duo himself. See

<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=200009191453.dk27747%40Simtel.Net&output=gplain>

From: kangf...@etang.com (Zhang Duo)

From his posting history, it looks like he googles for mention of
his products and jumps into threads about them. Hi Zhang!

Was his IP recorded when he clicked on the PL button to try to
fool you into linking to his scumware?

> I think checking into the known web sites and email addresses in
> more depth would yield additional information . . .

I looked. Jacques used to post from Fudan University in Shanghai,
which is the address on zhangduo.com's registration record. Now he
posts from Beijing. Etang.com's admin contact is in Shanghai.

> I wonder what relationship Huntersoft and Hunter Wang have.

Harder to pin this one. Wang Hui/Hunter Wang registered his site
to a Beijing address. The "Hunter Parker <hunte...@etang.com>"
message you quoted was submitted via a web interface. Appears to
have come from Australia, but that may just be where the web
interface was.

--
»Q«

Blinky the Shark

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Aug 16, 2003, 7:35:09 PM8/16/03
to
Susan Bugher wrote:

> longshotjohn7 wrote:

>> The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but
>> because of those who look on and do nothing. --Albert Einstein

> Nice tag line. :)

> The Huntersoft guy posted to alt.comp.freeware with information about a
> program on his site and didn't identify himself as the author - that's
> happened before with other posters - but a visit to the site usually
> makes the relationship clear - and someone posts a follow-up post
> mentioning the relationship - then there is likely to be a "oh, yeah,
> did I forget to mention that" post from the author.

> Our *friend* goes way beyond forgetting to mention a detail or two. IMO
> he's crapped in our backyard and I'd like to make sure we call him on it
> if he tries it again.

<snip>

> I think it would be a very good idea to put a little information on the
> Pricelessware site - to let him know we don't appreciate these tactics.

Or just vote his stuff off the list.

--
Blinky Linux RU 297263
Spam: The Boulder Pledge http://snurl.com/bpledge
Digest: Best of Internet Oracularities http://snurl.com/dig_oracle

burnr

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Aug 16, 2003, 8:10:40 PM8/16/03
to
Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in
news:3F3EBCBC...@kvi.net:

>
>
> I think it would be a very good idea to put a little information on the
> Pricelessware site - to let him know we don't appreciate these tactics.
>
> Comments please.
>
> Susan
>

I think it's a good idea to mention it. I have removed the listing from
NetShark Downloads. I'm in the process right now looking for any other
listings from this crew. If and when found, they will be removed as well.
This was an unexpected and welcome benefit of this ng, finding this out.
Very kewl! :)


--
burnr
http://netwonder.us Freeware
http://netsharkdownloads.com Shareware

R.L

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Aug 16, 2003, 8:22:01 PM8/16/03
to
Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> says in
news:3F3EBCBC...@kvi.net:

> longshotjohn7 wrote:
>>
>> The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who
>> do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.
>> --Albert Einstein
>
> Nice tag line. :)
>
> The Huntersoft guy posted to alt.comp.freeware with
> information about a program on his site and didn't identify
> himself as the author - that's happened before with other
> posters - but a visit to the site usually makes the
> relationship clear - and someone posts a follow-up post
> mentioning the relationship - then there is likely to be a
> "oh, yeah, did I forget to mention that" post from the
> author.

> Our *friend* goes way beyond forgetting to mention a detail
> or two. IMO he's crapped in our backyard

<snipped on quoted deceptive post>

What a shame!

>and I'd like to
> make sure we call him on it if he tries it again.

Sure do.

>
> I think it would be a very good idea to put a little
> information on the Pricelessware site - to let him know we
> don't appreciate these tactics.
>
> Comments please.
>

SECOND! COMPLETELY!

For those who did not see the thread on "Unknown Device
Identifier v1.60", here is a summary:

Here is what Huntersoft have done:

- Stole the exact whole webpage design of WinDriversBackup to
advertise his own software call WinDriverExpert (I posted
about it a few months ago in this group, and now the page had
changed after the orginal author complaint).

- Stole an entire program from ANOTHER author (called Unknown
Device), and called it Unknown Device Identifier, advertises
it as his own, and makes no reference to the orginal author.
Huntersoft is STILL distributing the program as its own
program even after the author of Unknown Device started to
complain a few months ago.

- Huntersoft pretended to be users to post message about his
own programs here, not only that, but also to trash his
competitor.

- While he had stolen the content of other's website, he
operate ANOTHER company with a different name to sell a
program, claiming that the program would prevent internet user
being able to copy content from one's homepage - (that is
great, he poisoned everybody and now is pretending to be the
lifesaver, selling you the antidote himself, great business!).

THIS GUY HAS NO ETHICS, like a "con-man" in the field playing
in our backyard, who knows how many victims will there be in
the future and how many more programs he is going to steal
(and I would not be surprise if in the future he decided to
start cheating his users with other means)!


--
RL

Susan Bugher

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Aug 16, 2003, 8:25:05 PM8/16/03
to
Blinky the Shark wrote:

>
> Susan Bugher wrote:
>
> > I think it would be a very good idea to put a little information on the
> > Pricelessware site - to let him know we don't appreciate these tactics.
>
> Or just vote his stuff off the list.

read it again: he's claiming his program is better than the
Pricelessware program.

Here's another one of his posts as an example of what I mean. (His
program is WinDriver Expert. The PW2003 program is WinDriversBackup -
note that it's misspelled below - as WinDriverBackup)

Susan

Susan Bugher

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Aug 16, 2003, 8:53:26 PM8/16/03
to
»Q« wrote:
>
> From his posting history, it looks like he googles for mention of
> his products and jumps into threads about them. Hi Zhang!
>
> Was his IP recorded when he clicked on the PL button to try to
> fool you into linking to his scumware?

Is this what you're after?

X-Originating-IP: [218.79.14.173]
X-Originating-Email: [jacqu...@hotmail.com]


Susan

REMbr...@inu.net

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Aug 16, 2003, 9:05:56 PM8/16/03
to

> Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote:

>I think it would be a very good idea to put a little information on the
>Pricelessware site - to let him know we don't appreciate these tactics.

>Comments please.

He's a pretty cheesy guy alright. Cite him.


Susan Bugher

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Aug 16, 2003, 9:20:57 PM8/16/03
to
"R.L" wrote:
>
> Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> says in
> news:3F3EBCBC...@kvi.net:
>
> > I think it would be a very good idea to put a little
> > information on the Pricelessware site - to let him know we
> > don't appreciate these tactics.
>
> SECOND! COMPLETELY!

> THIS GUY HAS NO ETHICS, like a "con-man" in the field playing
> in our backyard, who knows how many victims will there be in
> the future and how many more programs he is going to steal
> (and I would not be surprise if in the future he decided to
> start cheating his users with other means)!

Hi RL,

Thanks again for giving the group a heads-up in the "Unknown Device
Identifier v1.60" thread. I felt we ought to give the guy his very own
thread - with the Huntersoft name prominently featured. :)

Susan

»Q«

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Aug 16, 2003, 9:24:53 PM8/16/03
to
Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in <news:3F3ED206.113FE5D8
@kvi.net>:

>> Was his IP recorded when he clicked on the PL button to try to fool
>> you into linking to his scumware?
>
> Is this what you're after?
>
> X-Originating-IP: [218.79.14.173]
> X-Originating-Email: [jacqu...@hotmail.com]

Yep, thanks. Fwiw, that's

inetnum: 218.78.0.0 - 218.83.255.255
netname: CHINANET-SH
descr: CHINANET Shanghai province network
descr: Data Communication Division
descr: China Telecom
country: CN

But I think you already knew it was him. ;)

--
»Q«

»Q«

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Aug 16, 2003, 9:18:43 PM8/16/03
to
Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in
<news:3F3EBCBC...@kvi.net>:

> I think it would be a very good idea to put a little information
> on the Pricelessware site - to let him know we don't appreciate
> these tactics.
>
> Comments please.

Fine with me. If his ripoffs of two freeware programs and the posts
he makes here weren't enough, imo that "suggestion" he made to you
via the PL submit button alone is so far out of line that he
deserves his own page at pricelessware.org. And hopefully giving him
one would discourage other people from earning a place in the PL
Hall of Shame.

I'd also add a link from the WinDriversBackup entry to the
Zhang/Jacques info as well, to help prevent people from confusing it
with Zhang's ripoff of it.

Hi "Jacques"! Enjoying this thread are you?

--
»Q«

Blinky the Shark

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Aug 16, 2003, 9:07:51 PM8/16/03
to
Susan Bugher wrote:

> Blinky the Shark wrote:

>> Susan Bugher wrote:

>> > I think it would be a very good idea to put a little information on the
>> > Pricelessware site - to let him know we don't appreciate these tactics.

>> Or just vote his stuff off the list.

> read it again: he's claiming his program is better than the
> Pricelessware program.

Ah. I thought his stuff was on the list. I don't follow the category,
and misunderstood.

Susan Bugher

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Aug 16, 2003, 10:26:56 PM8/16/03
to


A link on the PL WinDriversBackup description is a very good idea. I'll
wait a day or so to make sure we have a consensus before uploading a
page.

If anyone has information to add please post it ASAP.

If anyone wishes to dissent feel free to do so.

"Jacques", we *will* be watching for posts from you. ;)

Susan

Susan Bugher

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Aug 16, 2003, 10:41:01 PM8/16/03
to
Alan wrote:
>
> Susan Bugher wrote:
> <snip>

> >
> > I think it would be a very good idea to put a little information on
> > the Pricelessware site - to let him know we don't appreciate these
> > tactics.
> >
> > Comments please.
>
> I certainly agree Susan. I think quite specific information (program
> name, author, site, link) of where NOT to go would certainly NOT be out
> of place. Clearly, the author has gone beyond the rip off, and has
> deliberately tried to generate a confusion between the programs. I must
> confess, it's worked here ;-) - I can't figure which end is up now! But
> I think PL would be a most appropriate place for explicit clarification.

I kept getting cross-eyed this afternoon as I followed various threads
and looked at different web sites. It is hard to keep things straight.

"Jaques" left the "s" out of the PW2003 WinDriversBackup program name -
perhaps in case the author of that program watches for posts with the
name spelled properly - so that was yet one more name variation to look
for.

we'll just keep looking . . .

could get to be a long web page.

Susan

Susan Bugher

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Aug 16, 2003, 11:03:54 PM8/16/03
to
burnr wrote:
>
> Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in
> news:3F3EBCBC...@kvi.net:
> >
> > I think it would be a very good idea to put a little information on the
> > Pricelessware site - to let him know we don't appreciate these tactics.
> >
> > Comments please.
> >
> I think it's a good idea to mention it. I have removed the listing from
> NetShark Downloads. I'm in the process right now looking for any other
> listings from this crew. If and when found, they will be removed as well.
> This was an unexpected and welcome benefit of this ng, finding this out.
> Very kewl! :)

Thanks - and if you find more information - please post it here.

Susan

»Q«

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Aug 16, 2003, 11:59:05 PM8/16/03
to
"R.L" <ringomeinew(removehere)@hotmail(remove).com> wrote in
<news:Xns93D9CEE6C...@127.0.0.1>:

> - While he had stolen the content of other's website, he
> operate ANOTHER company with a different name to sell a
> program, claiming that the program would prevent internet user
> being able to copy content from one's homepage - (that is
> great, he poisoned everybody and now is pretending to be the
> lifesaver, selling you the antidote himself, great business!).

I don't think this is established. Maybe I've missed a post.

--
»Q«

»Q«

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Aug 16, 2003, 11:56:57 PM8/16/03
to
"»Q«" <box...@gmx.net> wrote in
<news:MrQ93D9CFABE...@QsFQDN.dyndns.org>:

>>> Was his IP recorded when he clicked on the PL button to try to
>>> fool you into linking to his scumware?
>>
>> Is this what you're after?
>>
>> X-Originating-IP: [218.79.14.173]
>> X-Originating-Email: [jacqu...@hotmail.com]
>
> Yep, thanks. Fwiw, that's
>
> inetnum: 218.78.0.0 - 218.83.255.255
> netname: CHINANET-SH
> descr: CHINANET Shanghai province network
> descr: Data Communication Division
> descr: China Telecom
> country: CN
>
> But I think you already knew it was him. ;)

Also, there are at least two places that list jacqu...@hotmail.com
as an e-mail address of Zhang Duo.

<http://www.zdnet.de/downloads/programs/t/l/de0DTL-wc.html>

<http://www.torry.net/samples_software.htm>

torry.net has a downloadable piece of code he wrote (or stole, who
knows?). Jaques/Zhang posted here in a.c.f about it, mentioning that
he wrote it.

From: kangf...@etang.com (Jacques)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware

Subject: Re: Freeware Windows Server software
Date: 12 Jun 2003 06:59:01 -0700
Message-ID: <3ccc04fa.03061...@posting.google.com>

NNTP-Posting-Host: 61.242.168.21

Hey Dude,

Last year I wrote a simple Web Server (HTTP) and FTP Server
software and uploaded the EXE file and the source code to
Torry. You might download my homemade software called
"PC2Server", turn your PC to a Server.

The description page,
http://www.torry.net/samples_software.htm

The EXEcutable file and the Delphi 6 source code combined,
http://www.torry.net/samples/samples/soft/pc2server.zip

Have a nice day !

Jacques

The readme file inside pc2server.zip is

I once in a while plan to write a HTTP WebServer and FTP
Server, and try to combine them together.

Now you see, in this zip package, this is what I have done.
Easily start the web service and ftp service.

The source code is included, however, you should install ICS
component before compiling.

Anyone can use and modify the source code.

No more to say, visit often my website to find more,

http://www.zhangduo.com

Zhang Duo
jacqu...@hotmail.com

So when posting here under the name Jacques, he does not /always/ try
to hide the fact that he's Zhang Duo. Many Chinese people who operate
in the west also take a European name; that much isn't a problem. The
problem with "Jacques" (well, one of the many problems) is that he has
frequently pushed Hunter Software products here without saying he owns
Hunter Software.

--
»Q«


--
»Q«

Susan Bugher

unread,
Aug 17, 2003, 5:27:22 PM8/17/03
to
Below is a rough draft of the text for the HunterSoft web page.

I would appreciate comments from the group either on or off-list (remove
the whoi (in front of my name) to email me).

Would someone or several someones like to help with this off-list. I do
not want to post a URL for the web page until it's final.

Susan

draft - HUNTERSOFT ALERT WEB PAGE
==============================================

This is an alert to software users, newsgroup participants,
freeware/shareware sites and the general public in regard to:

HunterSoft http://www.zhangduo.com

Jacques Dubois jacqu...@hotmail.com
kangf...@etang.com (Jacques)
Jacques (kangf...@etang.com)


HunterSoft has copied and used another site's web pages on the
Huntersoft site.

HunterSoft has copied a software program and offered it as their own
product on the Huntersoft site and on freeware/shareware sites.

HunterSoft has posted newsgroup comments about their products and other
software while concealing their own vested interest. These posts did not
simply omit pertinent information. They are clearly intended to deceive.

HunterSoft attempted to redirect a Pricelessware program's links to the
HunterSoft site by sending a deceptive email to the Pricelessware site's
feedback address.

DOCUMENTATION:

Website Plagiarism
alt.comp.shareware.authors - June 2003

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=491715e7.0306100507.5b00cf10%40posting.google.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fsafe%3Dimages%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26as_usubject%3DWebsite%2520Plagiarism%26lr%3D%26num%3D100%26hl%3Den


Program theft:

The author of Unknown Devices says his program has been stolen. We think
he's right.

information about the alleged ripoff is here:
http://www.halfdone.com/SOTW/UnknownDevicesRip/

and here:
http://www.majorgeeks.net/vb/showthread.php?threadid=18044

The HunterSoft program - Unknown Device Identifier - is here:
http://www.zhangduo.com/udi.html


========

Deceptive newsgroup posts:

We have not found any newsgroup posts from this address:
jacqu...@hotmail.com

We have found 37 posts from: kangf...@etang.com

posting as: kangf...@etang.com (Jacques) and Jacques
(kangf...@etang.com)

This is the URL of a Google search for those posts:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:kangfu2000%40etang.com&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&filter=0

Following are copies of a few of those posts:

==============
add posts here
==============

Deceptive email to the Pricelessware link button:

The Pricelessware site lists several hundred programs. One of them is
WinDriversBackup.

An email was sent to the Pricelessware link button requesting a change
in the URL's for a program on the site named WinDriver Expert. There is
one program on the Pricelessware list with a similar name:
WinDriversBackup. The two programs are used for the same purpose and are
very similar.

The WinDriversBackup program is offered by Jermar Software Corp
http://www.jermar.com/wdrvbck.htm . That is the web site whose web pages
were copied and used by HunterSoft.

We believe this was a deliberate attempt to redirect the links from the
WinDriversBackup program to the HunterSoft program.

=================
email added here


==================
Linking Huntersoft to the email addresses.

to be added

========

John Fitzsimons

unread,
Aug 17, 2003, 8:08:58 PM8/17/03
to
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:22:36 -0400, Susan Bugher
<whoise...@kvi.net> wrote:


>I think it would be a very good idea to put a little information on the
>Pricelessware site - to let him know we don't appreciate these tactics.

Agreed.

Susan Bugher

unread,
Aug 19, 2003, 3:46:56 PM8/19/03
to
Susan Bugher wrote:

Looks like a cover-up has begun.

the Major Geeks forum thread about the program ripoff - which was here
yesterday:

http://www.majorgeeks.net/vb/showthread.php?threadid=18044

seems to have disappeared. Could someone please look into this. I am
still working on the web page - hope to be done soon.

Susan

Blinky the Shark

unread,
Aug 19, 2003, 4:09:23 PM8/19/03
to
Susan Bugher wrote:

> Susan Bugher wrote:

> http://www.majorgeeks.net/vb/showthread.php?threadid=18044

Is this page in your collection re this issue?

http://www.halfdone.com/SOTW/UnknownDevicesRip/

Susan Bugher

unread,
Aug 19, 2003, 5:06:50 PM8/19/03
to
Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
> Susan Bugher wrote:
>
> > Susan Bugher wrote:
>
> > Looks like a cover-up has begun.
>
> > the Major Geeks forum thread about the program ripoff - which was here
> > yesterday:
>
> > http://www.majorgeeks.net/vb/showthread.php?threadid=18044
>
> > seems to have disappeared. Could someone please look into this. I am
> > still working on the web page - hope to be done soon.
>
> Is this page in your collection re this issue?
>
> http://www.halfdone.com/SOTW/UnknownDevicesRip/

Yes

Susan

Susan Bugher

unread,
Aug 19, 2003, 5:22:21 PM8/19/03
to


and here is a first look at the web page - I will be adding some of
"Jacques" posts and the email he sent to Pricelessware

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm

Susan

Blinky the Shark

unread,
Aug 19, 2003, 5:31:10 PM8/19/03
to
Susan Bugher wrote:

> Susan Bugher wrote:

>> Susan Bugher wrote:

>> http://www.majorgeeks.net/vb/showthread.php?threadid=18044

> http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm

Well done.

burnr

unread,
Aug 19, 2003, 10:07:29 PM8/19/03
to
Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in news:3F3ED206.113FE5D8
@kvi.net:

Here's an interesting thread re: Huntersoft
http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=14842

Sietse Fliege

unread,
Aug 20, 2003, 9:27:36 AM8/20/03
to
burnr wrote:

> Here's an interesting thread re: Huntersoft
> http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=14842

Thanks for the link, burnr.

Maybe this is a good time to add a few words of caution.
It may be wise to keep in mind whom you are dealing with here.
It is obvious that the guy is a criminal.

The story on the above link shows that this guy, operating from China,
when he sees fit, may sign up for spam lists, try to get accounts
closed, threaten to sue or hack web servers (which he has probably
skills to do).
(Also, as Susan has pointed out, a Major Geeks forum thread has
disappeared, which may not have happened entirely voluntarily.)

It is one thing to expose him on usenet, but another thing to put up a
dedicated Pricelessware page.
I suggest to consider whether by doing the latter you risk that the
Pricelessware site and its maintainers become a target for his malicious
actions.

If you consider that to be a real risk, you may want to reflect upon
what it is that you are trying to accomplish with a dedicated
Pricelessware page.
I guess that Susan's main reason for this is that the author has tried
to fix a Pricelessware listing.
That is outrageous and a dedicated Pricelessware page is not an
overreaction, IMO.
But: I also believe that it is wiser to settle with this decicated
a.c.f. thread, rather than putting the Pricelessware site and its
maintainers at risk.

If you want to hurt the guy you can google for sites where his stolen
freeware is listed and send documented emails to those sites to try and
get him off of the listings.
(See also http://www.halfdone.com/SOTW/UnknownDevicesRip/ )

My 2 cts

--
Cheers,
Sietse Fliege

Susan Bugher

unread,
Aug 20, 2003, 1:05:20 PM8/20/03
to

Hello Sietse,

I'm outraged on many counts but IMO the *paramount* reason we need this
web page is to add credence to the good guys - the authors who have been
ripped off.

The Major Geeks thread - which they have taken down - showed that Major
Geeks' response to a complaint of theft is feeble - to say the least.
Something along the lines of *we can't tell whose program is a ripoff* -
and not the least attempt on their part to find out.

IMO authors of freeware programs deserve help from alt.comp.freeware
participants when they need it.

I think a web page is necessary - posts are easy to overlook.

When the page is up we can post the URL in other newsgroups and forums -
perhaps also notify some of the web columnists.

I have experienced harassment - I did think about possible problems
before suggesting a web page.

I will add my own name as the preparer - had intended to do this before
your post. I have a son visiting so haven't had much time - but should
have the final product uploaded today.

Harassment is likely to be aimed at me - so be it. If "Jacques" attacks
the Pricelessware site it could be uploaded at another location - or
several other locations. Harassment - if it occurs - will serve as
further proof that "Jacqes" is the villain.

One of the first things I did - before I started the web page - was make
copies of "Jacques" newsgroup posts - having considered that he might
try to remove them. I suggest others also save evidence - take screen
shots, save web pages etc. etc.

The consensus to date has been in favor of a web page. I will proceed
with the web page. If the consensus changes I will honor the wishes of
the group.

Susan

»Q«

unread,
Aug 20, 2003, 4:36:49 PM8/20/03
to
Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in
<news:3F43AA50...@kvi.net>:

> One of the first things I did - before I started the web page -
> was make copies of "Jacques" newsgroup posts - having considered
> that he might try to remove them. I suggest others also save
> evidence - take screen shots, save web pages etc. etc.

This was a good idea, Susan. Can you tell me if your saved them
with full headers or not? Or if anyone else who has saved them?
I'd do it myself but I have little time atm. At least having
Message-IDs is important because then even if he nukes his posts at
Google Groups, they can be found in other Usenet archives, and it's
good to be able to point to evidence maintained by a neutral
third-party archiver.

> The consensus to date has been in favor of a web page. I will
> proceed with the web page. If the consensus changes I will honor
> the wishes of the group.

I'm still in favor of the page, though I'm not really qualified to
weigh the risks that Sietse brings up. If the group decides against
a page, we just need to be even more vigilant about pointing out the
scum each time it's brought up here by anyone. (Sietse has been
great about doing this for months now already - thanks Sietse!)

I'd also like to encourage anyone who has not to try the Unknown
Devices app which Zhang/Jacques ripped off, and to try it before the
PL nominations get underway, in case it deserves a spot on the list.
I have tried it on my WinXP home machine, and it seems to work
fine; however, all my devices show up fine in the Windows Device
Manager as well, so I can't really assess its value.

<http://www.halfdone.com/Development/UnknownDevices/>

--
»Q«

Sietse Fliege

unread,
Aug 20, 2003, 4:51:38 PM8/20/03
to
Susan Bugher wrote:

> Hello Sietse,

Hello Susan,

> I'm outraged on many counts but IMO the *paramount* reason we need
> this web page is to add credence to the good guys - the authors who
> have been ripped off.

Good. Point taken.

> The Major Geeks thread - which they have taken down - showed that
> Major Geeks' response to a complaint of theft is feeble - to say the
> least. Something along the lines of *we can't tell whose program is a
> ripoff* - and not the least attempt on their part to find out.

I see. I had not seen the thread.
Well, the evidence is there and is compelling, as we all know.

> IMO authors of freeware programs deserve help from alt.comp.freeware
> participants when they need it.

Agreed.

> I think a web page is necessary - posts are easy to overlook.
>
> When the page is up we can post the URL in other newsgroups and
> forums - perhaps also notify some of the web columnists.

No doubt that a web page is useful.

> I have experienced harassment - I did think about possible problems
> before suggesting a web page.

I am sorry to hear that! :(

> I will add my own name as the preparer - had intended to do this
> before your post. I have a son visiting so haven't had much time -
> but should have the final product uploaded today.
>
> Harassment is likely to be aimed at me - so be it. If "Jacques"
> attacks the Pricelessware site it could be uploaded at another
> location - or several other locations. Harassment - if it occurs -
> will serve as further proof that "Jacqes" is the villain.

Well, we really do not need more proof! :)

> One of the first things I did - before I started the web page - was
> make copies of "Jacques" newsgroup posts - having considered that he
> might try to remove them. I suggest others also save evidence - take
> screen shots, save web pages etc. etc.
>
> The consensus to date has been in favor of a web page. I will proceed
> with the web page. If the consensus changes I will honor the wishes of
> the group.
>
> Susan

OK, I am very glad with the stance you take, Susan.

I believe everybody so far was in favor of the web page.
But I guess not all of them realized how nasty these things can get.
The link that burnr provided shows that Huntersoft has at least started
to harrass one of the authors.
Now you tell that you also have been harrassed by them, if I understand
you correctly.
Some of us may recall the PcHelp vs Lockdown affair.
It is of course very, very unlikely that this will develop into anything
remotely as nasty as that.

Anyway, I thought these aspects should at least be discussed.
Nobody should take for granted that you would be willing to put up with
harrassment on top of all the rest.
It turns out that you had realized all that and take it up admirably.

That is great, Susan. Bless you.

--
Cheers,
Sietse Fliege

Susan Bugher

unread,
Aug 20, 2003, 5:13:46 PM8/20/03
to
»Q« wrote:
>
> Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in
> <news:3F43AA50...@kvi.net>:
>
> > One of the first things I did - before I started the web page -
> > was make copies of "Jacques" newsgroup posts - having considered
> > that he might try to remove them. I suggest others also save
> > evidence - take screen shots, save web pages etc. etc.
>
> This was a good idea, Susan. Can you tell me if your saved them
> with full headers or not? Or if anyone else who has saved them?
> I'd do it myself but I have little time atm. At least having
> Message-IDs is important because then even if he nukes his posts at
> Google Groups, they can be found in other Usenet archives, and it's
> good to be able to point to evidence maintained by a neutral
> third-party archiver.

I rather not post exactly what I have or haven't saved since *Jacques*
is probably reading the posts (email me offlist). I do encourage
*everyone* to save evidence that might disappear - the more the merrier.

Susan

Susan Bugher

unread,
Aug 20, 2003, 5:37:34 PM8/20/03
to
Sietse Fliege wrote:

>
> Susan Bugher wrote:
>
> > I'm outraged on many counts but IMO the *paramount* reason we need
> > this web page is to add credence to the good guys - the authors who
> > have been ripped off.
>
> Good. Point taken.

> > IMO authors of freeware programs deserve help from alt.comp.freeware


> > participants when they need it.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > I think a web page is necessary - posts are easy to overlook.
> >
> > When the page is up we can post the URL in other newsgroups and
> > forums - perhaps also notify some of the web columnists.
>

> > The consensus to date has been in favor of a web page. I will proceed
> > with the web page. If the consensus changes I will honor the wishes of
> > the group.

> OK, I am very glad with the stance you take, Susan.
>
> I believe everybody so far was in favor of the web page.
> But I guess not all of them realized how nasty these things can get.
> The link that burnr provided shows that Huntersoft has at least started
> to harrass one of the authors.
> Now you tell that you also have been harrassed by them, if I understand
> you correctly.
>

> Anyway, I thought these aspects should at least be discussed.
> Nobody should take for granted that you would be willing to put up with
> harrassment on top of all the rest.


Thanks for the support Sietse. I'm glad you brought this up. The
possible repercussions certainly deserve full consideration by everyone.

Just to keep the record straight - *to date* Huntersoft has not harassed
me - the harassment I spoke of was something totally unrelated to this.
I mentioned it just so you would know I'm not going into this blind -
I'm aware of some of the things that can happen.

Despite possible repercussions I think it should be done and as long as
I have agreement from the group I'll proceed.

Susan

Susan Bugher

unread,
Aug 20, 2003, 5:41:41 PM8/20/03
to
Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
> Susan Bugher wrote:
>
> > and here is a first look at the web page - I will be adding some of
> > "Jacques" posts and the email he sent to Pricelessware
>
> > http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm
>
> Well done.

Thanks Blinky. more soon.

Susan

tls...@concentric.net

unread,
Aug 20, 2003, 11:24:13 PM8/20/03
to
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:36:49 GMT, "»Q«" <box...@gmx.net> took a very
strange color crayon and scribbled:

>Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in
><news:3F43AA50...@kvi.net>:

>> The consensus to date has been in favor of a web page. I will
>> proceed with the web page. If the consensus changes I will honor
>> the wishes of the group.

Be sure to back up the webpages in case of cyber attack.


--
Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi
tls...@concentric.net / http://www.concentric.net/~tlshell

Susan Bugher

unread,
Aug 20, 2003, 11:41:24 PM8/20/03
to
> > Susan Bugher wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm

The Huntersoft page is done. It can be accessed directly or from a link
on the PL2003 INFO page.

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/info2003PL.htm

Susan

Tiger

unread,
Aug 20, 2003, 11:45:21 PM8/20/03
to
Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in
news:3F443F64...@kvi.net:

What's a "ripe off?"

--
Tiger

"Zero is where the fun starts
There is too much counting everywhere else."
- Hafiz

Blinky the Shark

unread,
Aug 21, 2003, 9:03:24 AM8/21/03
to
Tiger wrote:

> Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in
> news:3F443F64...@kvi.net:

>>> > Susan Bugher wrote:

>>> > > http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm

>> The Huntersoft page is done. It can be accessed directly or from a
>> link on the PL2003 INFO page.

>> http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/info2003PL.htm

> What's a "ripe off?"

It's an off that'll be turning bad, soon, if nobody eats it within a day
or so.

Susan Bugher

unread,
Aug 24, 2003, 1:31:25 PM8/24/03
to
Halfdone Development has a new page about Huntersoft here:

http://www.halfdone.com/SOTW/Message2Huntersoft/

(I'll add the link to our Huntersoft Alert page.)

Susan

Brian Tillman

unread,
Aug 25, 2003, 9:42:40 AM8/25/03
to
>Halfdone Development has a new page about Huntersoft here:
>
>http://www.halfdone.com/SOTW/Message2Huntersoft/

I find it interesting that the message from Huntersoft that Halfdone
mentions threatens Halfdone with hacking. That, in itself, is an actionable
item, I believe.
--
Brian Tillman Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com
Smiths Aerospace Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.
3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS 1B3 Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "."
Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991
This opinion doesn't represent that of my company


Susan Bugher

unread,
Aug 25, 2003, 10:35:12 AM8/25/03
to
Brian Tillman wrote:
>
> >Halfdone Development has a new page about Huntersoft here:
> >
> >http://www.halfdone.com/SOTW/Message2Huntersoft/
>
> I find it interesting that the message from Huntersoft that Halfdone
> mentions threatens Halfdone with hacking. That, in itself, is an actionable
> item, I believe.

Effective legal action might be difficult. The threat was made to Jerry
Rawdon of JerMar Software Corp. I just looked at the forum web page - it
says Rawdon is in Vancouver, WA. "Jacques" is in China.

Susan

Nomad

unread,
Aug 25, 2003, 7:45:19 PM8/25/03
to
"Susan Bugher" <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in message
news:3F4A1EA0...@kvi.net...
What!...there's a Vancouver in WA? When did it move from BC? :-)


---
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