AT&T to drop all freeware related nntp usenet newsgroups
Anita
"AT&T unilaterally drops all freeware nntp USENET newsgroups" ostensibly to
protect the rights of the software industry alliance because in 88 of
100,000 messages, payware was found in the freeware discussions
See the trend discussed here for AT&T mismanagement:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9967119-38.html
And here for Verizon mismanagement:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9967119-38.html
And, here for AOL:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9988278-38.html?hhTest=1&tag=nefd.top
What's next? Freeware newsgroups?
hummingbird
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:58:27 -0700 'Anita'
wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
I have long predicted the end of Usenet for two reasons:
1.Govts don't like it due to too much political dissent.
2.Big money doesn't like it due to loss of profits by theft.
--
"All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed,
and third, it is accepted as self-evident"
(Arthur Schopenhauer)
Richard Steinfeld
people that they never get their internet service from large corporations.
My first ISP was Pacific Bell (now transformed into AT&T). My contract
actually stipulated that I was never to say anything derogatory about
Pacific Bell. The service, which was originally very good, was degraded
in stages. I finally walked when all my email was lost by them for an
entire week. They never acknowledged that they'd screwed up, and refused
to give me a partial refund; also refused to forward my email to the
small company that I abandoned them for.
Don't stay with corporate jerks if you can help it. There are many
small, responsive ISPs out there who know the value of their customers.
Richard
VanguardLH
Wow, you must be in a broadband-rich region. I have just ONE cable
broadband distributor in my area: Comcast. I'm too far out in the
suburbs to get DSL (plus I still want the higher speed of cable).
Sounds great to make a different choice WHEN there is actually different
choices available!
Me Here
hummingbird wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:58:27 -0700 'Anita'
> wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>
>> Future headline:
>> "AT&T unilaterally drops all freeware nntp USENET newsgroups" ostensibly to
>> protect the rights of the software industry alliance because in 88 of
>> 100,000 messages, payware was found in the freeware discussions
>>
>> See the trend discussed here for AT&T mismanagement:
>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9967119-38.html
>>
>> And here for Verizon mismanagement:
>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9967119-38.html
>>
>> And, here for AOL:
>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9988278-38.html?hhTest=1&tag=nefd.top
>>
>> What's next? Freeware newsgroups?
>
>
> I have long predicted the end of Usenet for two reasons:
>
> 1.Govts don't like it due to too much political dissent.
> 2.Big money doesn't like it due to loss of profits by theft.
>
>
I can see the day when ISP's stop NNTP access, those currently offering
paid Usenet access will become ISP's in their own right and many will
jump ship.
--
Me Here
"Your vote certainly counts. On the other hand, your vote may not be
counted." -- Robert Richie, Center for Voting and Democracy, commenting
on the 2000 Presidential election.
============================================================
For a pleasurable Usenet experience, I recommend kill-filing
the following twits:
polaris <pol...@andromeda.galaxy> (Sockpuppet)
Ari <REMOVETheJ...@gmail.comCAPITALLETTERS> (Forger)
Ron May <may...@hotmail.com> (Moron)
iNcReDuLoUs <inv...@invalid.invalid> (Sporger)
us...@invalid.invalid
The same is true for Australia.
--
User
Me Here
I have two cable providers - both suck. I live less than 3 km's from
two phone exchanges and neither of them are ADLS2 enabled so I'm stuck
using cable for the time being :-(
--
Me Here
Every normal man must be tempted at times, to spit on his hands, hoist
the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)
hummingbird
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:34:55 +1000 'Me Here'
wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>hummingbird wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:58:27 -0700 'Anita'
>> wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>>
>>> Future headline:
>>> "AT&T unilaterally drops all freeware nntp USENET newsgroups" ostensibly to
>>> protect the rights of the software industry alliance because in 88 of
>>> 100,000 messages, payware was found in the freeware discussions
>>>
>>> See the trend discussed here for AT&T mismanagement:
>>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9967119-38.html
>>>
>>> And here for Verizon mismanagement:
>>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9967119-38.html
>>>
>>> And, here for AOL:
>>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9988278-38.html?hhTest=1&tag=nefd.top
>>>
>>> What's next? Freeware newsgroups?
>>
>>
>> I have long predicted the end of Usenet for two reasons:
>>
>> 1.Govts don't like it due to too much political dissent.
>> 2.Big money doesn't like it due to loss of profits by theft.
>>
>>
>
>I can see the day when ISP's stop NNTP access, those currently offering
>paid Usenet access will become ISP's in their own right and many will
>jump ship.
Indeed.
Many UK ISPs have dropped NNTP already, including my own, and
I see quite a few US ISPs doing the same. That will create a
consolidation of NNTP access by a few big NSPs. That in turn
will make it easier for govts to influence and exercise their own
control over as dissent rises. Much of the dissent I see on UK
politics groups isn't from the dork brigade, but from educated,
well informed people. That must scare the pants off the
politicians. In the UK I believe both major parties monitor the
political newsgroups.
Ari
> What's next? Freeware newsgroups?
We got one :0)
--
http://www.bushflash.com/idiot.html
John Corliss
> Future headline:
> "AT&T unilaterally drops all freeware nntp USENET newsgroups" ostensibly to
> protect the rights of the software industry alliance because in 88 of
> 100,000 messages, payware was found in the freeware discussions
>
> See the trend discussed here for AT&T mismanagement:
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9967119-38.html
>
> And here for Verizon mismanagement:
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9967119-38.html
Those two links are one and the same.
> And, here for AOL:
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9988278-38.html?hhTest=1&tag=nefd.top
"Someone on the New York attorney general's staff probably should have
informed his or her boss that AOL actually ceased to offer all Usenet
newsgroups more than three years ago--for business reasons, not
political reasons. Even in the bizzaro world of politics, an Internet
provider can't very well cease to offer what it already has ceased to
offer. (AOL will continue to allow its customers to access third-party
Usenet providers such as Giganews, and Usenet.com.)"
> What's next? Freeware newsgroups?
Eh... excuse me, but what's the difference between
"freeware nntp USENET newsgroups"
and
"Freeware newsgroups"?
Regardless, Cuomo can be contacted here:
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/contact.html
Best to be polite, encourage his fight against kiddie porn, but
criticize his heavy-handed method of accomplishing it via killing parts
of usenet.
--
John Corliss BS206. I use nFilter to block all crossposts and all Google
Groups posts because of Googlespam. No ad, cd, commercial, cripple,
demo, dotnet, nag, share, spy, time-limited, trial or web wares OR warez
for me, please.
s|b
> Future headline:
> "AT&T unilaterally drops all freeware nntp USENET newsgroups" ostensibly to
> protect the rights of the software industry alliance because in 88 of
> 100,000 messages, payware was found in the freeware discussions
Good for AT&T... (Is this ever going to end?)
--
s|b
s|b
> I have long predicted the end of Usenet for two reasons:
>
> 1.Govts don't like it due to too much political dissent.
> 2.Big money doesn't like it due to loss of profits by theft.
"The End of Usenet" has been predicted several times in the past. And
yet it keeps on going.
My ISP offers Usenet, but has cut down on several binaries *. Despite
that I haven't used their newsserver for a long time, except for a
couple of "internal" (support) newsgroups. So when they cut off access
to their (outsourced) newsserver you won't see me whining about it in
almost every newsgroup. There will always be /someone/ who's offering
access to (text) Usenet as a free or paying service.
* Not because of kiddie pr0n, but "to protect audio copyrights".
Apparently, they left open a little door because people have been
telling me they can still access "closed" or "deleted" newsgroups by
using NZB.
--
s|b
hummingbird
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:22:52 +0200 's|b'
wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 02:19:33 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>
>> I have long predicted the end of Usenet for two reasons:
>>
>> 1.Govts don't like it due to too much political dissent.
>> 2.Big money doesn't like it due to loss of profits by theft.
>"The End of Usenet" has been predicted several times in the past. And
>yet it keeps on going.
I know, the timing of predictions is always the difficult bit ;-)
>My ISP offers Usenet, but has cut down on several binaries *. Despite
>that I haven't used their newsserver for a long time, except for a
>couple of "internal" (support) newsgroups. So when they cut off access
>to their (outsourced) newsserver you won't see me whining about it in
>almost every newsgroup. There will always be /someone/ who's offering
>access to (text) Usenet as a free or paying service.
Your comments do confirm the trend though ... that ISPs are
steadily dropping NNTP access. Mine's also done that.
Once access is consolidated to a small number of major NSPs,
they become easier to herd by those with vested interests.
>* Not because of kiddie pr0n, but "to protect audio copyrights".
>Apparently, they left open a little door because people have been
>telling me they can still access "closed" or "deleted" newsgroups by
>using NZB.
--
s|b
> Your comments do confirm the trend though ... that ISPs are
> steadily dropping NNTP access. Mine's also done that.
> Once access is consolidated to a small number of major NSPs,
> they become easier to herd by those with vested interests.
Mine dropped several binary newsgroups because they were blackmailed by
IFPI (similar to RIAA). The two largest providers (Telenet/cable and
Belgacom/ADSL) received a subpoena and they settled by deleting several
binary newsgroups. Here's a little list from Telenet:
<http://tinyurl.com/63wgpx>
As you can see they also blocked a couple of newsgroups that contained
"divx" although IFPI claims to defend the copyrights to _audio_ material
*not* video. I say "blocked" because it seems you can still download
from those "blocked" newsgroups by using NZB.
Anyway, Usenet was recently (?) outsourced to Highwinds (one crappy
service if you ask me), but we can still access several binary
newsgroups (with a poor newsfeed).
I think another problem is finding a good/competent newsadmin, but it
seems more and more ISPs in Flanders outsource Usenet. (My brother's ISP
for instance uses Giganews' services and before that, it was Eweka, a
Dutch Usenet provider.)
--
s|b
hummingbird
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:26:39 +0200 's|b'
wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:59:27 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>
>> Your comments do confirm the trend though ... that ISPs are
>> steadily dropping NNTP access. Mine's also done that.
>> Once access is consolidated to a small number of major NSPs,
>> they become easier to herd by those with vested interests.
>Mine dropped several binary newsgroups because they were blackmailed by
>IFPI (similar to RIAA). The two largest providers (Telenet/cable and
>Belgacom/ADSL) received a subpoena and they settled by deleting several
>binary newsgroups. Here's a little list from Telenet:
><http://tinyurl.com/63wgpx>
First they came for the binaries...............!
I believe that some ISPs are dropping NNTP behind the excuse
of copywrite theft, whereas the real reason is their unwillingness
to provide investment for their own NNTP infrastructure.
>As you can see they also blocked a couple of newsgroups that contained
>"divx" although IFPI claims to defend the copyrights to _audio_ material
>*not* video. I say "blocked" because it seems you can still download
>from those "blocked" newsgroups by using NZB.
It's weird that those groups are still accessible at all.
>Anyway, Usenet was recently (?) outsourced to Highwinds (one crappy
>service if you ask me), but we can still access several binary
>newsgroups (with a poor newsfeed).
IIRC Highwinds were heavily criticised for the sporge attacks a
while ago, and their unwillingness to investigate and take action
to stop it.
>I think another problem is finding a good/competent newsadmin, but it
>seems more and more ISPs in Flanders outsource Usenet. (My brother's ISP
>for instance uses Giganews' services and before that, it was Eweka, a
>Dutch Usenet provider.)
I also have free access to Giganews through my ISP, but only
to text groups. But I use NIN for that anyway.
»Q«
John Corliss <jcor...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> Regardless, Cuomo can be contacted here:
>
> http://www.oag.state.ny.us/contact.html
>
> Best to be polite, encourage his fight against kiddie porn, but
> criticize his heavy-handed method of accomplishing it via killing
> parts of usenet.
He seems only interested in killing the CP groups; it looks like he
doesn't care much how the ISPs implement that, as long as it results in
a good press release. If the ISPs only get rid of the groups he's
identified, he'd be stuck with anti-CP activists blasting him over the
fact that the CP will just move to other groups. ISTM to be able to
issue his press releases without coming under fire that he's not doing
enough, he's at least got to insist that alt.binaries.* be dropped and
filters put up to keep binaries out of the text groups. IMO, that's the
best outcome anyone can hope for as he moves forward, and anyone with
an ISP in negotiations with him should encourage them to hold the line
at that.
Anita
>> And here for Verizon mismanagement:
>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9967119-38.html
>
> Those two links are one and the same.
Ooops. Verizon is here
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9964895-38.html
BTW, it was interesting that Cuomo's front page says all those lies about
them being behind the AOL change when all it is is dirty lies.
They're no better than the child molesters when the people we hire to help
us lie boldly to our faces and claim victory when there is none to be had
... they make bold strikes in the air and proclaim they're winning the
fight.
Such is Cuomo ...
Anita
http://www.nystopchildporn.com/index.html
The NY Attorney General just announced his office recently "discovered" the
usenet newsgroups. Yup. Wow. Are they on the ball or what (considering the
usenet is as old as the Internet and twice as old as the world wide web
itself).
Their breathtaking press release goes on to claim, this new discovery
occurred in an "unprecedented undercover operation" no less .... and ...
furthermore, that the usenet newsgroups sole purpose is to "upload and
download files"
Ummm... Cuomo's office says nothing about discussion so I don't know what
I'm doing here discussing it ... I'd better get off fast!
Are all politicians this stupid?
Or are just the constituents all idiots?
POKO
anitaw...@sbcglobal.net says...
--
Best - POKO
hummingbird
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:46:25 -0700 'Anita'
wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>Are all politicians this stupid?
Politicians have agendas.
>Or are just the constituents all idiots?
Many are.
Relentless propaganda campaigns in the media keep them that way.
Informed electorates are dangerous people.
John Corliss
Lot of money to be made in politicking.
John Corliss
> John Corliss wrote:
>>
>> Regardless, Cuomo can be contacted here:
>>
>> http://www.oag.state.ny.us/contact.html
>>
>> Best to be polite, encourage his fight against kiddie porn, but
>> criticize his heavy-handed method of accomplishing it via killing
>> parts of usenet.
>
> He seems only interested in killing the CP groups; it looks like he
> doesn't care much how the ISPs implement that, as long as it results in
> a good press release.
Pretty obvious you hit the nail on the head there.
> If the ISPs only get rid of the groups he's
> identified, he'd be stuck with anti-CP activists blasting him over the
> fact that the CP will just move to other groups.
Sorry, what is a "CP" group?
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&as_qdr=all&q=%22cp+group%22&btnG=Search&lr=lang_en
> ISTM to be able to
> issue his press releases without coming under fire that he's not doing
> enough, he's at least got to insist that alt.binaries.* be dropped and
> filters put up to keep binaries out of the text groups. IMO, that's the
> best outcome anyone can hope for as he moves forward, and anyone with
> an ISP in negotiations with him should encourage them to hold the line
> at that.
But... but.... I *like* having access to binary newsgroups. Oh well, it
wouldn't be the end of the world if they went away. And it might be a
good thing in many ways.
hummingbird
>>Mine dropped several binary newsgroups because they were blackmailed by
>>IFPI (similar to RIAA). The two largest providers (Telenet/cable and
>>Belgacom/ADSL) received a subpoena and they settled by deleting several
>>binary newsgroups. Here's a little list from Telenet:
>><http://tinyurl.com/63wgpx>
>
> First they came for the binaries...............!
--------FORGERY------
Then the scourgers, Franklin.
hb
hummingbird
Or socialists like you.
Me Here
[FORGER] hummingbird wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:55:38 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>
>>> Mine dropped several binary newsgroups because they were blackmailed by
>>> IFPI (similar to RIAA). The two largest providers (Telenet/cable and
>>> Belgacom/ADSL) received a subpoena and they settled by deleting several
>>> binary newsgroups. Here's a little list from Telenet:
>>> <http://tinyurl.com/63wgpx>
>> First they came for the binaries...............!
>
> --------FORGERY------
>
> Then the scourgers, Franklin.
>
> hb
---FORGERY---
--
Me Here
Microsoft - We put the "backwards" into backwards compatibility. --
Anonymous sig.
Me Here
John Corliss wrote:
Makes getting my p0rn harder ROFL
--
Me Here
The man who sees absolutes, where all other men see nuances and shades
of meaning, is either a prophet, or a quack. -- Keith Olbermann
commenting on Donald Rumsfeld 8/30/2006
hummingbird
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:09:37 -0400
ARI THE FORGER posting as 'hummingbird'
wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:16:56 -0400, POKO wrote:
>
>> In article <7DTgk.6314$cn7...@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>,
>> anitaw...@sbcglobal.net says...
>>> I forgot to note this "news flash" from Mario Cuomo's office....
>>> http://www.nystopchildporn.com/index.html
>>>
>>> The NY Attorney General just announced his office recently "discovered" the
>>> usenet newsgroups. Yup. Wow. Are they on the ball or what (considering the
>>> usenet is as old as the Internet and twice as old as the world wide web
>>> itself).
>>>
>>> Their breathtaking press release goes on to claim, this new discovery
>>> occurred in an "unprecedented undercover operation" no less .... and ...
>>> furthermore, that the usenet newsgroups sole purpose is to "upload and
>>> download files"
>>>
>>> Ummm... Cuomo's office says nothing about discussion so I don't know what
>>> I'm doing here discussing it ... I'd better get off fast!
>>>
>>> Are all politicians this stupid?
>>> Or are just the constituents all idiots?
>>>
>> not necessarily - mostly just crooked.
>
>Or socialists like you.
--------FORGERY------------
s|b
> I forgot to note this "news flash" from Mario Cuomo's office....
> http://www.nystopchildporn.com/index.html
Why should I even care? Attorney General Cuomo has absolutely *no*
jurisdiction in my country. It's obvious he just wants to score some
points with the less intelligent part of the voters. For those in the US
who are interested in text newsgroups there's news.individual.net for
only 10 euro per year (and there are other newsservers that are free). I
would like to see Cuomo making an even bigger ass of himself by
"declaring war" on this German text newsserver...
BTW anyone registered www.stopattorneygeneralcuomo.com yet? It would
probably attract more attention than some postings in acf...
--
s|b
John Corliss
I think you probably might want to at least be aware of what Cuomo is
doing, despite the fact that he has no jurisdiction in your country,
because ideas like the one he's promoting tend to spread.
s|b
> I think you probably might want to at least be aware of what Cuomo is
> doing, despite the fact that he has no jurisdiction in your country,
> because ideas like the one he's promoting tend to spread.
Not every country lives to imitate the US...
--
s|b
hummingbird
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:09:37 -0400
> ARI THE FORGER posting as 'hummingbird'
> wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:16:56 -0400, POKO wrote:
>>
>>> In article <7DTgk.6314$cn7...@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>,
>>> anitaw...@sbcglobal.net says...
>>>> I forgot to note this "news flash" from Mario Cuomo's office....
>>>> http://www.nystopchildporn.com/index.html
>>>>
>>>> The NY Attorney General just announced his office recently "discovered" the
>>>> usenet newsgroups. Yup. Wow. Are they on the ball or what (considering the
>>>> usenet is as old as the Internet and twice as old as the world wide web
>>>> itself).
>>>>
>>>> Their breathtaking press release goes on to claim, this new discovery
>>>> occurred in an "unprecedented undercover operation" no less .... and ...
>>>> furthermore, that the usenet newsgroups sole purpose is to "upload and
>>>> download files"
>>>>
>>>> Ummm... Cuomo's office says nothing about discussion so I don't know what
>>>> I'm doing here discussing it ... I'd better get off fast!
>>>>
>>>> Are all politicians this stupid?
>>>> Or are just the constituents all idiots?
>>>>
>>> not necessarily - mostly just crooked.
>>
>>Or socialists like you.
>
> --------FORGERY------------
---FORGERY---
YRRAH SCOURGE
hummingbird
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:35:37 -0400
ARI THE FORGER POSTING AS 'hummingbird'
wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
--------FORGERY-----------
hummingbird
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:45:24 +0200 's|b'
wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:14:55 -0700, John Corliss wrote:
I agree with both of you.
Caesar Romano
wrote Re Re: AT&T to drop all freeware related nntp usenet newsgroups:
And thankfully so.
Me Here
----------FORGERY--------------
--
Me Here
I would rather adventure with a certainty of excitement and the chance
of greatness then complacently drift with the ordinary. -- Mark Ravitch,
M.D.
============================================================
For a pleasurable Usenet experience, I recommend kill-filing
ny former boyfriends:
Me Here
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:45:24 +0200 's|b'
> wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:14:55 -0700, John Corliss wrote:
>>
>>> I think you probably might want to at least be aware of what Cuomo is
>>> doing, despite the fact that he has no jurisdiction in your country,
>>> because ideas like the one he's promoting tend to spread.
>
>>Not every country lives to imitate the US...
>
> I agree with both of you.
----------FORGERY--------------
Dan Goodman
However -- various countries which take pride in not imitating the US
HAVE imitated various US trends, innovations, etc.
Note that the US does not live to imitate Italy -- but espresso has
become rather common here.
--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://clerkfuturist.wordpress.com
mirror 1: http://dsgood.insanejournal.com
mirror 2: http://dsgood.wordpress.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood
hummingbird
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:50:21 -0400
ARI THE FORGER posting as 'Me Here' wrote this on
alt.comp.freeware:
>On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:57:01 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:45:24 +0200 's|b'
>> wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>>
>>>On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:14:55 -0700, John Corliss wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think you probably might want to at least be aware of what Cuomo is
>>>> doing, despite the fact that he has no jurisdiction in your country,
>>>> because ideas like the one he's promoting tend to spread.
>>
>>>Not every country lives to imitate the US...
>>
>> I agree with both of you.
>
>----------FORGERY--------------
----------forgery-------------
s|b
> >> I think you probably might want to at least be aware of what Cuomo is
> >> doing, despite the fact that he has no jurisdiction in your country,
> >> because ideas like the one he's promoting tend to spread.
> >Not every country lives to imitate the US...
> I agree with both of you.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux>
That was here in Belgium, in 1996. Since then, no politician has tried
to shut down Usenet because of kiddie pr0n. However, I know some of the
customers of my ISP complained (with reason) about some newsgroups that
were explicit about kiddie pr0n. My ISP removed these newsgroups shortly
after these complaints.
I once saw a documentary about a French (cyber)police force hunting down
pedophiles on the Internet. Usenet wasn't even mentioned. In all cases
the pedophiles ran their own server (most of times they were stupid
enough to do this from their own home) and they swapped pictures with
each other. Apparently, contacts were made through (short-lived)
webforums. Again, no mention of newsgroups. It would be pretty stupid to
exchange logins and passwords for an FTP server on a public forum such
as Usenet.
If our politicians would want to start a witch hunt on Usenet, they
would more like (ab)use the "protect copyrights" angle, not the kiddie
pr0n. Not much chance they will do that, because most of those
copyrights concern US instead of Belgian copyrights. Not worth the
trouble...
--
s|b
hummingbird
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:24:35 +0200 's|b'
wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:57:01 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>
>> >> I think you probably might want to at least be aware of what Cuomo is
>> >> doing, despite the fact that he has no jurisdiction in your country,
>> >> because ideas like the one he's promoting tend to spread.
>
>> >Not every country lives to imitate the US...
>
>> I agree with both of you.
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux>
>
>That was here in Belgium, in 1996. Since then, no politician has tried
>to shut down Usenet because of kiddie pr0n. However, I know some of the
>customers of my ISP complained (with reason) about some newsgroups that
>were explicit about kiddie pr0n. My ISP removed these newsgroups shortly
>after these complaints.
I was aware of that case but can't see why it would deter Bel
pols from closing down kiddie pr0n on Usenet. Quite the opposite
I would have thought. A lack of focus on Usenet is very likely
only because they aren't aware of the role it plays vs websites.
When they get wised up, that changes, as we see in the US.
>I once saw a documentary about a French (cyber)police force hunting down
>pedophiles on the Internet. Usenet wasn't even mentioned. In all cases
>the pedophiles ran their own server (most of times they were stupid
>enough to do this from their own home) and they swapped pictures with
>each other. Apparently, contacts were made through (short-lived)
>webforums. Again, no mention of newsgroups. It would be pretty stupid to
>exchange logins and passwords for an FTP server on a public forum such
>as Usenet.
>
>If our politicians would want to start a witch hunt on Usenet, they
>would more like (ab)use the "protect copyrights" angle, not the kiddie
>pr0n. Not much chance they will do that, because most of those
>copyrights concern US instead of Belgian copyrights. Not worth the
>trouble...
I agree that pols are more likely to use the copyright theft
excuse to shut down sites, but I think you underestimate the way
in which political policies spread across the western world and
become virtually a *must have fashion* among aspiring political
elites in Europe. Any govt that doesn't keep up with the latest
dictat can easily get pressurised by Washington.
I tend to see the western world as akin to a corporate management
system with its HQ in Washington. Orders come down the line and
others follow. That may change as the US loses power and influence
Also consider the growing power of the EU in all this....recall
the 39(?) pieces of data demanded by the US Govt for each airline
passenger travelling to the US before leaving Europe. Despite the
EU huffing and puffing that some of the requirements violated EU
privacy laws, they finally capitulated and it's now supplied.
Consider also the political fashion for hi-tech passports and
ID Cards sweeping Europe. That started life in Washington and
conspired to by the British govt.
Many other examples of the EU following what happens in the US.
Don Kirkman
<g60j9r...@localhost.127.0.0.1>:
>On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:26:39 +0200 's|b'
>wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>>Mine dropped several binary newsgroups because they were blackmailed by
>>IFPI (similar to RIAA). The two largest providers (Telenet/cable and
>>Belgacom/ADSL) received a subpoena and they settled by deleting several
>>binary newsgroups. Here's a little list from Telenet:
>><http://tinyurl.com/63wgpx>
>First they came for the binaries...............!
I like that reminder.
>>As you can see they also blocked a couple of newsgroups that contained
>>"divx" although IFPI claims to defend the copyrights to _audio_ material
>>*not* video. I say "blocked" because it seems you can still download
>>from those "blocked" newsgroups by using NZB.
>It's weird that those groups are still accessible at all.
It's only odd if the NZB files are being used to download messages
from the provider in question--NZB files simply point to reachable
servers that have the wanted files, so downloads can be coming from
anywhere. ISTM there will almost always be a server somewhere that
has (at least current) files available.
--
Don Kirkman
don...@charter.net
VegasDon
> Future headline:
> "AT&T unilaterally drops all freeware nntp USENET newsgroups" ostensibly to
> protect the rights of the software industry alliance because in 88 of
> 100,000 messages, payware was found in the freeware discussions
>
> See the trend discussed here for AT&T mismanagement:http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9967119-38.html> And, here for AOL:http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9988278-38.html?hhTest=1&tag=nefd.top
>
> What's next? Freeware newsgroups?
Newsgroups have long been a bothersome use of bandwidth and space for
providers...even tho we pay for their services.
There are free to real cheap newsgroup readers out there. You can
find them through a Google search. You can even get 4. ++ each month
for unlimited use dial up internet. Go to http://www.copper.net/landing/halfoff/8910689
and read about it. I use it and its pretty cool. Beats shelling out
over 130 per month for net and the other stuff to the companies. It's
the same internet.
Don
hummingbird
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:36:24 -0700 'Don Kirkman'
wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
Thanks for that Don. Looking back at s|b's previous post, he did
appear to say that NZB's can still be used to d/l from the same
servers, but upon re-reading he was referring to same newsgroups.
hummingbird
>>>>As you can see they also blocked a couple of newsgroups that contained
>>>>"divx" although IFPI claims to defend the copyrights to _audio_ material
>>>>*not* video. I say "blocked" because it seems you can still download
>>>>from those "blocked" newsgroups by using NZB.
>>
>>>It's weird that those groups are still accessible at all.
>
>>It's only odd if the NZB files are being used to download messages
>>from the provider in question--NZB files simply point to reachable
>>servers that have the wanted files, so downloads can be coming from
>>anywhere. ISTM there will almost always be a server somewhere that
>>has (at least current) files available.
>
> Thanks for that Don. Looking back at s|b's previous post, he did
> appear to say that NZB's can still be used to d/l from the same
> servers, but upon re-reading he was referring to same newsgroups.
------FORGERY--------------
Ari
> Note that the US does not live to imitate Italy -- but espresso has
> become rather common here.
You ought to go down in quote history with that one.
--
An Explanation Of The Need To Be "Anonymous"
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
hummingbird
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:58:38 -0400
ARI SILVERSLIME THE FORGER POSTING AS 'hummingbird' wrote
this on alt.comp.freeware:
>On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:41:17 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>
>>>>>As you can see they also blocked a couple of newsgroups that contained
>>>>>"divx" although IFPI claims to defend the copyrights to _audio_ material
>>>>>*not* video. I say "blocked" because it seems you can still download
>>>>>from those "blocked" newsgroups by using NZB.
>>>
>>>>It's weird that those groups are still accessible at all.
>>
>>>It's only odd if the NZB files are being used to download messages
>>>from the provider in question--NZB files simply point to reachable
>>>servers that have the wanted files, so downloads can be coming from
>>>anywhere. ISTM there will almost always be a server somewhere that
>>>has (at least current) files available.
>>
>> Thanks for that Don. Looking back at s|b's previous post, he did
>> appear to say that NZB's can still be used to d/l from the same
>> servers, but upon re-reading he was referring to same newsgroups.
>
>------FORGERY--------------
------FORGERY-----------
s|b
> Thanks for that Don. Looking back at s|b's previous post, he did
> appear to say that NZB's can still be used to d/l from the same
> servers, but upon re-reading he was referring to same newsgroups.
I was referring to the same newsgroups AND the same server(s). When
retrieving the newsgroups list those groups won't be visible anymore,
but when using NZB files one can still download files from them using
the same server(s) (so I've been told; I haven't tested this myself).
AFAIK NZB files contain a packet of message-ids and the server(s) used
are the ones the user himself sets. In my case newsgroups.telenet.be
which goes back to a group of servers in Amsterdam,
newsfarm.ams2.highwinds-media.com for instance.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NZB>
So my ISP seems to have "blocked" access to certain newsgroups, but if
you try and download them directly (with NZB and message-ids) it should
work (or so I've been told).
--
s|b
»Q«
John Corliss <jcor...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> »Q« wrote:
> > John Corliss wrote:
> >>
> >> Regardless, Cuomo can be contacted here:
> >>
> >> http://www.oag.state.ny.us/contact.html
> >>
> >> Best to be polite, encourage his fight against kiddie porn, but
> >> criticize his heavy-handed method of accomplishing it via killing
> >> parts of usenet.
> >
> > He seems only interested in killing the CP groups; it looks like he
> > doesn't care much how the ISPs implement that, as long as it
> > results in a good press release.
>
> Pretty obvious you hit the nail on the head there.
>
> > If the ISPs only get rid of the groups he's
> > identified, he'd be stuck with anti-CP activists blasting him over
> > the fact that the CP will just move to other groups.
>
> Sorry, what is a "CP" group?
CP is an abbreviation of "child pornography". My fault for not
spelling it out before I started abbreviating, sorry.
> http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&as_qdr=all&q=%22cp+group%22&btnG=Search&lr=lang_en
>
> > ISTM to be able to issue his press releases without coming under
> > fire that he's not doing enough, he's at least got to insist that
> > alt.binaries.* be dropped and filters put up to keep binaries out
> > of the text groups. IMO, that's the best outcome anyone can hope
> > for as he moves forward, and anyone with an ISP in negotiations
> > with him should encourage them to hold the line at that.
>
> But... but.... I *like* having access to binary newsgroups. Oh well,
> it wouldn't be the end of the world if they went away. And it might
> be a good thing in many ways.
There are enough people making money from them that I don't think
there's any chance they'll go away; it'll just become more annoying
and expensive for people to get to them. The big carriers (Giganews,
&c.) would have to abandon their business model to satisfy Cuomo, and I
think they'd move overseas before doing that. (I've read that Giga and
some others have removed groups that were/are being used for CP, but
Cuomo can't make press releases out of that; neither can Giga, since
they like to advertise "unlimited access".)
bay...@gmail.com
<rgsteinBUTREMOVET...@sonicANDTHISTOO.net> wrote:
> This type of heavy-handed contempt for customers is why I recommend to
> people that they never get their internet service from large corporations.
>
> My first ISP was Pacific Bell (now transformed into AT&T). My contract
> actually stipulated that I was never to say anything derogatory about
> Pacific Bell. The service, which was originally very good, was degraded
> in stages. I finally walked when all my email was lost by them for an
> entire week. They never acknowledged that they'd screwed up, and refused
> to give me a partial refund; also refused to forward my email to the
> small company that I abandoned them for.
>
> Don't stay with corporate jerks if you can help it. There are many
> small, responsive ISPs out there who know the value of their customers.
>
> Richard
AT&T was lambasted a year or two ago by a PC magazine or two for
their customer privacy policy, which was stated to be in essence,
anything you have we can access is ours. I would never use AT&T as an
ISP.
Me Here
Nice try, Mr Forger.
--
Me Here
Windows/NT - From the people who brought you EDLIN. -- rec.humor.funny /
yucks volume 3.20
============================================================
For a pleasurable Usenet experience, I recommend kill-filing
the following twits:
»Q«
"s|b" <pri...@usenet4all.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:41:17 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>
> > Thanks for that Don. Looking back at s|b's previous post, he did
> > appear to say that NZB's can still be used to d/l from the same
> > servers, but upon re-reading he was referring to same newsgroups.
>
> I was referring to the same newsgroups AND the same server(s). When
> retrieving the newsgroups list those groups won't be visible anymore,
> but when using NZB files one can still download files from them using
> the same server(s) (so I've been told; I haven't tested this myself).
NZB files are essentially just lists of Message-IDs, and most (all?)
clients use them just by issuing a series of
"ARTICLE <message-id>" commands.
If the articles are crossposted, what you've seen reported all makes
sense; the server could well not carry the group any more, but it would
still have the articles because they are indexed in the other group(s)
they were crossposted to.
If the NZB method also works for non-crossposted messages in that
group, it might be because the server hasn't purged its store of
messages, even though it isn't accepting new messages to that group.
If the NZB method works for /new/ articles to that group that aren't
crossposted, then there's some really stupid "blocking" going on at
that server.
hummingbird
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:32:07 -0500 '»Q«'
wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
The latter might be the explanation if the server admin haven't
updated their feeds or find it easier to block rather than do so?
Don Kirkman
<4884f427$1...@news4us.nl>:
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NZB>
That'll be an interesting thing to watch, whichever way it goes. :-)
--
Don Kirkman
don...@charter.net
John Corliss
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 03:46:54 -0700
> John Corliss <jcor...@fake.invalid> wrote:
>
>> »Q« wrote:
>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>> Regardless, Cuomo can be contacted here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.oag.state.ny.us/contact.html
>>>>
>>>> Best to be polite, encourage his fight against kiddie porn, but
>>>> criticize his heavy-handed method of accomplishing it via killing
>>>> parts of usenet.
>>> He seems only interested in killing the CP groups; it looks like he
>>> doesn't care much how the ISPs implement that, as long as it
>>> results in a good press release.
>> Pretty obvious you hit the nail on the head there.
>>
>>> If the ISPs only get rid of the groups he's
>>> identified, he'd be stuck with anti-CP activists blasting him over
>>> the fact that the CP will just move to other groups.
>> Sorry, what is a "CP" group?
>
> CP is an abbreviation of "child pornography". My fault for not
> spelling it out before I started abbreviating, sorry.
Guess I missed that because I've always heard it referred to as "kiddie
porn" (which would be KP).
>> http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&as_qdr=all&q=%22cp+group%22&btnG=Search&lr=lang_en
>>
>>> ISTM to be able to issue his press releases without coming under
>>> fire that he's not doing enough, he's at least got to insist that
>>> alt.binaries.* be dropped and filters put up to keep binaries out
>>> of the text groups. IMO, that's the best outcome anyone can hope
>>> for as he moves forward, and anyone with an ISP in negotiations
>>> with him should encourage them to hold the line at that.
>> But... but.... I *like* having access to binary newsgroups. Oh well,
>> it wouldn't be the end of the world if they went away. And it might
>> be a good thing in many ways.
>
> There are enough people making money from them that I don't think
> there's any chance they'll go away; it'll just become more annoying
> and expensive for people to get to them. The big carriers (Giganews,
> &c.) would have to abandon their business model to satisfy Cuomo, and I
> think they'd move overseas before doing that. (I've read that Giga and
> some others have removed groups that were/are being used for CP, but
> Cuomo can't make press releases out of that; neither can Giga, since
> they like to advertise "unlimited access".)
Good point. And thanks for the clarification, »Q«.
John Corliss
> John Corliss wrote:
>>
>> I think you probably might want to at least be aware of what Cuomo is
>> doing, despite the fact that he has no jurisdiction in your country,
>> because ideas like the one he's promoting tend to spread.
>
> Not every country lives to imitate the US...
Oh I understand that, but still the risk is there. Of course, countries
where the RIAA and MPAA aren't home ported are far less at risk.
Bear Bottoms
> The latter might be the explanation if the server admin haven't
> updated their feeds or find it easier to block rather than do so?
>
> --
> "All truth passes through three stages.
> First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed,
> and third, it is accepted as self-evident"
> (Arthur Schopenhauer
------FORGERY--------------
--
Bear Bottoms
website: http://bearware.com
hummingbird
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:38:03 -0400
ARI SILVERSLIME POSTING AS 'Bear Bottoms'
wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:01:08 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>
>> The latter might be the explanation if the server admin haven't
>> updated their feeds or find it easier to block rather than do so?
>>
>> --
>> "All truth passes through three stages.
>> First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed,
>> and third, it is accepted as self-evident"
>> (Arthur Schopenhauer
>
>------FORGERY--------------
Indeed you are Ari. But we're not sure what of.
--
"All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed,
and third, it is accepted as self-evident"
(Arthur Schopenhauer)
s|b
> If the NZB method works for /new/ articles to that group that aren't
> crossposted, then there's some really stupid "blocking" going on at
> that server.
Believe me, that wouldn't come as a surprise...
--
s|b
»Q«
That's true, and I don't know enough about the way the peering
relationship work WRT changes in the active newsgroup lists to guess.
In what I wrote above, I was assuming, possibly wrongly, that once a
server has been configured not to carry a group, it won't accept posts
for that group its peer servers offer them. I'm sure the folks in the
nntp group could clear this up.
Ari
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:38:03 -0400
> ARI SILVERSLIME POSTING AS 'Bear Bottoms'
> wrote this on alt.comp.freeware:
>
>>On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:01:08 +0100, hummingbird wrote:
>>
>>> The latter might be the explanation if the server admin haven't
>>> updated their feeds or find it easier to block rather than do so?
>>>
>>> --
>>> "All truth passes through three stages.
>>> First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed,
>>> and third, it is accepted as self-evident"
>>> (Arthur Schopenhauer
>>
>>------FORGERY--------------
>
> Indeed you are Ari. But we're not sure what of.
------FORGERY--------------