Windows 8

[Brian Gaff]

I've been talking to some people, mostly sighted about this and to be honest
most are saying they hate its new concept, with mmetro apps and tiles all
over the place. The comment most given seems to be. Why do I want a concept
which is mostly suited for mobile systems on my desktop. I don't want to run
applications down the line etc, when my desktop can run them here. Also when
I do change it to something more usable it puts it all back the minute to
try to install something else.
Now for myself, I've not actually tried it, but this seems to be the way
those who I know view the new look. Could it be that in fact Windows 8 is
just a mobile front end on the old Win 7 system? Its a great pity they
cannot make it xp or 7 like as an option. After all the work for that has
already been done and thus should be able to be grafted on quite easily,
leaving the bathroom tiling and see through apps for those using mobile
devices where keyboards mice and real applications are hard to use.

Brian
--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user.

[John Doe]

I haven't used Windows 8, but I know lots about the subject in
general. I'm probably one of very few people in the world who use
speech for dictation and automation of my PC. And I use text to
speech, also for efficiency.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Normally, a person shops for applications, not an operating
system. If Microsoft were interested, they could make Windows
suitable for blind and disabled people. But Microsoft is only
interested in what's good for the masses, because that's how
Microsoft holds onto its monopolies. So unless other blind people
say something good about Windows 8, or some well respected
authority validates any claims Microsoft might make about Windows
8 being easier for the blind or disabled to use, forget about it.

Listen to your applications developers, the people who make the
programs that you depend on. If your applications don't run better
on Windows 8, forget about it.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <4f622892$0$9303$c3e8da3$12bc...@news.astraweb.com>, John
Doe <jd...@usenetlove.invalid> writes:
[]

>Listen to your applications developers, the people who make the
>programs that you depend on. If your applications don't run better
>on Windows 8, forget about it.

Unfortunately, the world - or rather, the majority of it - moves,
eventually, to the latest Windows, whether we like it or not (I tend not
to like it - I stuck with '98 and now with XP - but I see the way it
works). If you don't go to the latest, you eventually get diminishing
(and/or increasingly expensive) support.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Rule 46, Oxford Union Society, London: Any member introducing a dog into the
Society's premises shall be liable to a fine of one pound. Any animal leading a
blind person shall be deemed to be a cat.

[John Doe]

Yes, Gullible, you were wrong to be stuck on Windows 98. Windows
memory management radically improved after Windows 98, in Windows
XP and later.

I didn't even suggest staying with a version of Windows forever,
Gullible. I said go with your applications and your applications
developers advice. Or go with the advice of authoritative and
credible people who use the applications that you use.

Applications are what matters, especially if using a computer is
unusually challenging.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <4f626521$0$39236$c3e8da3$f626...@news.astraweb.com>, John

Plonk

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"You know what they say. In London you're never more than ten feet away from a
lying politician." The Downing Street rat, "quoted" by Rod Liddle in Radio
Times, 12-18 February 2011

[John Doe]

This guy is a classic troll. Firstly, he uses a weird posting
format in a blind users group. And now he pretends to use a kill
file, as if anybody else in the world needs to know that he has an
imaginary kill file friend. Later, he'll show up trolling again,
and of course he will have an excuse for seeing my post.


--



"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Path: news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!news.glorb.com!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG soft255.demon.co.uk>
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.blind-users
> Subject: Re: Windows 8
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 01:28:06 +0000
> Organization: 255 software
> Lines: 21
> Message-ID: <tI+b$ICmcpYPFwSN soft255.demon.co.uk>
> References: <jjsea3$pup$1 dont-email.me> <4f622892$0$9303$c3e8da3$12bcf670 news.astraweb.com> <NG9zM4IqQlYPFwWo soft255.demon.co.uk> <4f626521$0$39236$c3e8da3$f6268168 news.astraweb.com>
> Reply-To: G6JPG soft255.demon.co.uk
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
> Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org; posting-host="ZOphQdrZtLTdVpIC9p3Yxg"; logging-data="9103"; mail-complaints-to="abuse eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/CPG2bOglOAid+Kl42Ed1r"
> User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<vEgDLgHD8kSwxBEgfRYACQkuE6>)
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:gozrhFOdm873ACm47obe9W8SeGA=
>
> In message <4f626521$0$39236$c3e8da3$f6268168 news.astraweb.com>, John

> Doe <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> writes:
>>Yes, Gullible, you were wrong to be stuck on Windows 98. Windows
>>memory management radically improved after Windows 98, in Windows
>>XP and later.
>>
>>I didn't even suggest staying with a version of Windows forever,
>>Gullible. I said go with your applications and your applications
>>developers advice. Or go with the advice of authoritative and
>>credible people who use the applications that you use.
>>
>>Applications are what matters, especially if using a computer is
>>unusually challenging.
>
> Plonk
> --

> J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

[Brian Gaff]

Well, I also find that trying to use the ribbon menus introduced into recent
versions of windows is not as intuitive as the old style, and I'm not alone.
I tend to feel that many of these changes have been introduced for the
sighted, and as blind users are such a minority, it is going to need some
legislation on a world wide scale if equality is to be promoted, and of
course this means that the old I'm alright jack cry will come up from the
masses who will have to fund the special needs folk. However if you are one
of those who has to use machines when blind, you see it differently. After
all the costs of making sure things work for a different interface would be
very low if spread over the huge customer base of Microsoft. Given all that,
it is interesting to note that xps life has been extended twice now, and
this is because the corporate users find the changes to 7 hard to make when
compared with using what works. so as has been said, if something works,
don't change it.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


"John Doe" <jd...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote in message
news:4f629d1e$0$16611$c3e8da3$e408...@news.astraweb.com...

[burt1...@gmail.com]

Look below, I have this t-bird set up for sighted groups/bottom posting.

No, win8 has some more serious changes under the hood, and last I heard
not everything that works under XP will work, and even some win7
programs will have issues. There is supposed to be a whole new API, or
at least completely reworked API for accessibility which will make it
much easier on a screen-reader like NVDA, and mean that people won't
need video intercept like the bloatware screen-readers have so much.
There is a narrator that actually let's a blind person do something out
of the box on Windows, and from what little I've heard it is not an
exercise in randomness to use like late model ms-office menus seem to
be. I've not tried it yet, don't really have the disk space to give it a
fare trial, but it sounds like the keyboard shortcuts may actually be
more intuitive than the visuals are to many.
As a mostly Linux man these days I've not Ben keeping up so much to tell
the truth, but a bit of Googling should get you a couple or three
podcast demos of the different builds of win8. I only listened to one of
the very first ones, and probably haven't read anything on how the
accessibility is coming along this year. I'll be checking in to it again
soon I guess/post a link or two if I find anything especially good at
explaining how everything will work for us. It may be another hammer in
the coffin of freedom scientific, and with the way NVDA's coming along
those clowns are living on borrowed time anyway. (stolen time better
said I guess)


--
Burt

[John Doe]

Why do you have to quote material just because you have your newsreader
setup for sighted groups? All you have to do is select all and delete.

[Tiddy Ogg]

Heard good things about the new version of Narrator it includes,
though.

[Vaughan]

In article <4f626521$0$39236$c3e8da3$f626...@news.astraweb.com>,
jd...@usenetlove.invalid says...

Developers will always try to create applications for the newest
operating systems - Windows Eight in this case. Developers need to
stay in business, by supporting what people will be buying - purchases
which are forced upon them or because people want to do more and more
new things.

I am sure that for us, as blind people, all the screen reader
developers are working with Windows Eight to make it work. Over the
past few years, Gw Micro, Dolphin Systems and others have made great
strides in getting their products out the dor in close proximity to
the release of the new operating system.

So yes: for us - it is the developers who matter, but market pressures
require support for the newest and arguably greatest as son as
releases occur.

Vaughan.

[SixStringStu]

"Vaughan" <vau...@overtherainbow.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.29de53f3f...@news.usenetserver.com...

That's why I appreciate the National Federation of the Blind. They have a
complete section at the national headquarters devoted to technology and
testing of the latest and greatest products.
I allways think of them as the defacto source for advice on products.

[John Doe]

Doing more does not necessarily require a new operating system, it
might just require an application upgrade. You might be right,
screen reader developers might be working hard to make their
applications compatible with Windows 8, but you need to hear from
real users about that. The idea of getting an application out the
door in close proximity to the release of a new operating system
is not very meaningful unless the new operating system allows your
application to do things that the old operating system doesn't.
And again, you need to depend on serious users or authorities who
you know. I certainly wouldn't take the single word of one
developer that is trying to sell a new product to you, if that's
what you mean. You ramble about the newest and greatest operating
system, but you need to explain why Windows 8 is superior to prior
versions, with respect to the applications that you use.

In other words... Why is Windows 8 superior to a blind user? What
will Windows 8 blind user applications do that windows XP or
Windows 7 won't do? Does it support a critical piece of hardware
that you cannot currently use?

End-users simply do not shop for an operating system. Microsoft's
most recent operating system does come with a new computer, but
applications developers support prior operating systems especially
when there are more users of those prior operating systems. And in
fact, Windows XP is still being supported by Microsoft because so
many businesses do not want to upgrade. And lastly... If it ain't