JAWS and the Prt Sc key?
J. P. Gilliver (John)
Does JAWS take over the print screen key for some purpose? I have just
been trying to help a friend who was having trouble with a supermarket's
online website (actually I think it was the Verified by Visa part of the
process, not the supermarket's own). She repeated the process while on
the 'phone to me (actually Skype, but I don't think that was anything to
do with it), and I talked her through pressing the print screen button,
then opening Word and doing a paste, and sending me the resultant
document, with the intention of me seeing what was on her screen when it
speaks gibberish. (Yes, I know that's not the most efficient way, but as
she is blind, she doesn't have any familiarity with any image software,
so this seemed to be the easiest way.) However, when I received the
document, it just had four lines, each containing two spaces, in it - no
screen captures. We're both using Windows XP, and (I think) the Word
that comes as part of Office 2003.
I heard her JAWS say "print screen", so she got the right key.
(Remote desktop would have been better of course, but we couldn't get
that to work either; I'll maybe open another thread on that sometime.)
So - does JAWS use the print screen for its own purpose? (If it does,
would Alt-PrtSc have worked instead?)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
W-E-H-T-H-U-R: This is the worst spell of weather in months!
Tiddy Ogg
<G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>(Sounds like some obscure pop group!)
>
>Does JAWS take over the print screen key for some purpose?
All I can say is that that key seems to do nothing on its own. It is
used in some 3-key combination to get high contrast colours, but this
is a MS function rather than Jaws.
zulu
"Tiddy Ogg" <tidd...@madasasheep.com> wrote in message
news:qgesn5p81r2nghofq...@4ax.com...
I don't know about Jaws, but the _normal_ function of the Print Screen key
sends an image of the whole screen to the Clipboard.
You can then paste the image into Paint Shop Pro (for example).
Alt + Print screen just copies the active window instead of the whole
screen.
HTH
--
�zulu� VIP
Deddajay
> (Sounds like some obscure pop group!)
>
>
> (Remote desktop would have been better of course, but we couldn't get
> that to work either; I'll maybe open another thread on that sometime.)
>
> So - does JAWS use the print screen for its own purpose? (If it does,
> would Alt-PrtSc have worked instead?)
Remote desktop has always been hit and miss for me so I use Teamviewer
http://www.teamviewer.com/index.aspx
This works really well as I help a blind couple who live several
counties away on a regular basis. I can take over the control of their
pc completely and sort out any problems they are having (with their
permission, of course). It's especially useful when they are shopping
online and they need to enter a capture or something similar, as I can
go in and deal with that for them.
Your friend will need to download a session application, which you send
a link for, give you the identity number and provide a password. This
can either be done on a one off basis for that particular session or you
can install a permanent link on her machine. My friends have a permanent
installation for unattended 24/7 connection, which means it starts with
windows, but it also means that I can access within seconds when ever
they need assistance. This version means that I can remotely reboot
their machine and reconnect again if the need arises such as installing
new software for them. There is, obviously, a certain amount of trust
involved as you have access to everything on their machine, but if that
trust is there it is a superb way to be able to give assistance when you
are miles away from the person needing it.
It may be the answer for you, and it's a free application so if it
doesn't work you've only lost a bit of time.
Cheers
Deddajay
Brian Gaff
doing the helping is sighted.
I believe it just gives a bitmap, and there is no kind of attempt at
actually recreating the session complete with accessability information to
the computer doing the controlling.
Brianie
--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Deddajay" <dedd...@bigcat.leonin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:04WdnWA5p8cfy-PW...@giganews.com...
Brian Gaff
and do a proper cut and paste, or actually save the current page and send
that to you so you could see it.
Relatively speaking.
Often the problems on shopping carts are there is no constency as to where
the legend applying to a edit box on the screen, so you can end up entering
your last name in the phone number and all sorts.
Brian
--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mwjo6wG5...@soft255.demon.co.uk...
Deddajay
Yes, the person helping needs to be sighted, but I am, and that is the
reason that I am able to help.
Teamviewer doesn't give a bitmap; it literally allows me to access their
computer as though I was sitting in front of it. The only thing I can't
do is physically stick a disc in the drive, but if that is needed they
can do that when I ask them to do so. I can do everything on the
distance pc that I can on my own, including editing the registry.
The most recent time it was used was to deactivate and uninstall Guide,
which is the screenreader they use, as it was having problems. Between
us we then installed an earlier version which worked fine before an
update went wrong. I could use Guide as easily via Teamviewer from 2
counties away as I can sitting in front of my husband's laptop, which is
also running Guide. I can also access my husband's laptop in another
room from this pc without having to get out of my seat at the other end
of the house.
We don't need to recreate a session, everything is done in real time. If
I chose to browse through their browser from here, I could do so very
easily, and with not much slow down in speed compared to browsing on my
own pc.
Don't take my word for it, try it yourself with a partner who can see.
In John's case, I understand that he is also sighted and helping a blind
friend, so he's in the same position I am. Teamviewer has been designed
for precisely this sort of situation - assisting someone from a distance
when the helper isn't able to be in front of the pc with the problem,
but yes, you do need someone who is sighted to be at the helping end.
Hope this clarifies things.
Cheers
Deddajay
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>I'd have been tempted to ask the person to deactivate Jaws, load up nvda
>and do a proper cut and paste, or actually save the current page and send
>that to you so you could see it.
I don't know if she knows anything of NVDA.
>Relatively speaking.
>Often the problems on shopping carts are there is no constency as to where
>the legend applying to a edit box on the screen, so you can end up entering
>your last name in the phone number and all sorts.
>
>Brian
>
Well, two points there: firstly it is a website she's used many times
before (Tesco, the grocery supermarket in UK), and secondly she uses
some form-filling application (Roboform I think it is called - a Firefox
plugin I think it is), which usually does a pretty good job of finding
the right windows for the data. Plus she checks anyway.
I guess they could have changed their form in some way that doesn't work
too well for her. Tesco is reasonably proud of their accessible site,
but I think it was when she got to the Verified by Visa part of payment,
so it might not be Tesco who have done the naughty (if anyone has).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
No matter how beautiful a girl is, no matter how much you might love her,
squeeze her tight enough and she'll fart - Joe Barron, quoted by son Fred ("My
Family" creator), RT, 15-21 March 2003
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>
>"Tiddy Ogg" <tidd...@madasasheep.com> wrote in message
>news:qgesn5p81r2nghofq...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:19:21 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
>> <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>(Sounds like some obscure pop group!)
>>>
>>>Does JAWS take over the print screen key for some purpose?
>>
>> All I can say is that that key seems to do nothing on its own. It is
>> used in some 3-key combination to get high contrast colours, but this
>> is a MS function rather than Jaws.
>>
>
>I don't know about Jaws, but the _normal_ function of the Print Screen key
>sends an image of the whole screen to the Clipboard.
>You can then paste the image into Paint Shop Pro (for example).
>Alt + Print screen just copies the active window instead of the whole
>screen.
That is what I was trying to do - get my friend to send me a screenshot.
(We used Word, which we both have: being totally blind, she doesn't have
Paint Shop Pro or any other image application - well, I suppose she has
Paint, but I thought she'd be more familiar with Word.) That's why I
asked if JAWS was using the PrtSc key for something, as the Word
document had no screengrabs in it.
I'll pass on to her the post about Teamviewer, for which thanks very
much Deddajay.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
No matter how beautiful a girl is, no matter how much you might love her,
J. P. Gilliver (John)
<dedd...@bigcat.leonin.co.uk> writes:
[]
>Remote desktop has always been hit and miss for me so I use Teamviewer
>http://www.teamviewer.com/index.aspx
>
>This works really well as I help a blind couple who live several
>counties away on a regular basis. I can take over the control of their
>pc completely and sort out any problems they are having (with their
>permission, of course). It's especially useful when they are shopping
>online and they need to enter a capture or something similar, as I can
>go in and deal with that for them.
This does sound quite useful. Just one thing - does it lock the local
user out completely, or can the local user do things at the same time as
the remote person, as can be done with remote desktop? (I only have
experience of remote desktop as a recipient - where I work the helpdesk
use remote desktop or something like it, but sometimes it's useful -
when the network is slow or for some other reason they're having
difficulty manipulating my mouse for example - for me to do things for
them.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
No matter how beautiful a girl is, no matter how much you might love her,
Deddajay
No it doesn't lock the local user out at all. One of my friends has
about 5% vision and can see movement on the screen. One of the things I
changed for them was the desktop to a plain colour. We went through
several different ones to see which one worked best for her to see icons
on the screen and then played around with icon sizes. All the time I was
changing things, she was commenting about how that was better / worse
etc, and then we got her to practice using the mouse on the icons with
me guiding her from this end.
The option is there for me to do everything, but the local user can also
do things whilst being watched and guided. It also has the facility to
do direct file transfers as well, so I can put files on their pc from
mine or vice versa. The only thing that it doesn't give me is audio from
their pc, but if they have a screen reader on, they use System Access as
well as Guide, I can hear that down the phone or they can tell me what
is being said. I think if I recall that remote desktop also carries
audio from the distance pc, but I have never found it particularly
stable or fast, and Teamviewer is extremely quick. It can also be used
from the Teamviewer web site if you register, so if you are not at your
own pc you can still reach your friend's computer from where ever you
can get internet access. I find this quite useful if I want to get into
my own pc from work, for example.
As it is free for home users, the best thing to do is to try it and see
if it works for you.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Deddajay
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>Hi John
>
>No it doesn't lock the local user out at all. One of my friends has
>The option is there for me to do everything, but the local user can
>also do things whilst being watched and guided. It also has the
Sounds good ...
>facility to do direct file transfers as well, so I can put files on
>their pc from mine or vice versa. The only thing that it doesn't give
... and I was wondering about that too. Sounds excellent!
>me is audio from their pc, but if they have a screen reader on, they
>use System Access as well as Guide, I can hear that down the phone or
>they can tell me what is being said. I think if I recall that remote
Hmm. We could use 'phone. Can it work in parallel with Skype?
>desktop also carries audio from the distance pc, but I have never found
>it particularly stable or fast, and Teamviewer is extremely quick. It
Quick is good!
>can also be used from the Teamviewer web site if you register, so if
>you are not at your own pc you can still reach your friend's computer
>from where ever you can get internet access. I find this quite useful
>if I want to get into my own pc from work, for example.
Seems too good to be true, especially for free!
>
>As it is free for home users, the best thing to do is to try it and see
>if it works for you.
I think we will!
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Cheers
>Deddajay
[]
Thanks very much.
burt henry
You should suggest either Solona (right now it only works for IE 7 and
8), or much better web visum, (firefox3.0 and up), extensions that solve
captchas in real time.
Solona capture tool is a bit more complicated to use, as one has to log
on to their site when you are on the page with the captcha. You use one
hotkey and send the screen shot you have just taken to the solona
server, where it is sent to a volunteer who with real human eyes solves
the graphic and sends the characters back. It takes less than a minute,
but like I say, you need to log-on to the solona site, and click on a
couple of buttons to get things rolling. I don't use IE much, and
especially for captchas Firefox's web-visum extension is a treat. You
just go to the edit field where the captcha needs to be written-in, use
your context menus key, (or a mouse) and click on the "solve captcha
link. You will get a msg that any screen reader will announce letting
you know that the image was sent to the web-visum server where their
hand dandy software converts the squiggly graphics in to txt, and in 30
secs or less you will receive a msg saying that the captcha result has
been pasted on to your clip board. Ctr+v and it's copied, and you are
spending your hard earned or other money, connecting on Facebook, or
signed up for some new newsletter.
Web visum also has several features for ppl with low vision-contrasts,
highlights, and I don't remember what else, and also it can be used to
label graphics, and even translate graphics in to txt, with similar OCR
tech as is used to solve captchas.
Google web-visum, as this extension is not available on the normal
Mozilla firefox extension pages. (it will take a day or so to get it
set up, as you will need to write and explain why you need this
extension,and you will receive your invitation code by return e-mail)
(no captchas lol)
The web-visum extension has changed my on-line life! I have Solona, but
it's a bit of a hassle to use even if one is using IE, but it is good to
have in a pinch. Maybe one in 40 captchas is not able to be correctly
read by web-visum, and a few will need to be resent. I've only had one
or two sites not work at all with this tool, but I've had to resend a
few times...never more than twice if I remember....
I'm sleepy, so I'll stop rambling.
Burt
burt henry
B.H.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>You are a good man, but as they say, "teach a man,(or a couple) to fish"...
>
>You should suggest either Solona (right now it only works for IE 7 and
>8), or much better web visum, (firefox3.0 and up), extensions that
>solve captchas in real time.
>Solona capture tool is a bit more complicated to use, as one has to log
>on to their site when you are on the page with the captcha. You use
>one hotkey and send the screen shot you have just taken to the solona
>server, where it is sent to a volunteer who with real human eyes solves
>the graphic and sends the characters back. It takes less than a
Oh, of the couple, she uses the computer a lot more than he does ...
(Have you heard the modern version of the saying? It goes: give a man a
fish, and you'll feed him for a day; tech him to use the internet, and
he won't bother you for months ...)
She knows of one of the addons, though didn't (I think) know about the
volunteer-based one. I've passed on your post. I really wish I could get
her to use usenet!
The machine-based captcha methods will, presumably, always be in an arms
race with the captcha designers, as their code gets into the hands of
the bad hats (as it will).
chris mcmillan
(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
>In message <FaGdnYE5mdKclOLW...@giganews.com>, Deddajay
><dedd...@bigcat.leonin.co.uk> writes:
>Hmm. We could use 'phone. Can it work in parallel with Skype?
>
can use skype. (Probably the only thing I know more about in computing
terms than John does!)
Sincerely Chris
--
Chris McMillan
http://www.chinavisionuk.org/
http://www.oneplusone.org.cn
chris mcmillan
(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
>In message <LABfn.42018$Ym4....@text.news.virginmedia.com>, Brian Gaff
><Bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>>I'd have been tempted to ask the person to deactivate Jaws, load up nvda
>>and do a proper cut and paste, or actually save the current page and send
>>that to you so you could see it.
>
>I don't know if she knows anything of NVDA.
>
Its far better - apparently - than the one I use.
>
>I guess they could have changed their form in some way that doesn't
>work too well for her. Tesco is reasonably proud of their accessible
>site,
>
So they should be. They were a disgrace and the RNIB took them in hand
and they did the decent thing and had it written so it was fully
accessible, and then they won some sort of award for their efforts. This
was all some years ago now - and I've never used it.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>In message <K+iDpwL$XxfL...@soft255.demon.co.uk>, "J. P. Gilliver
>(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In message <FaGdnYE5mdKclOLW...@giganews.com>, Deddajay
>><dedd...@bigcat.leonin.co.uk> writes:
>>Hmm. We could use 'phone. Can it work in parallel with Skype?
>>
>JPG think of skype as a free telephone. If you can use a telephone you
>can use skype. (Probably the only thing I know more about in computing
>terms than John does!)
>
>Sincerely Chris
>
>
Christmas Eve or Day last year, but I use it. I was just wondering if
Deddajay's remote app. will work OK alongside it (so I could talk to my
friends while remote controlling their PC). I can't see why it
shouldn't, but you never know.
(You know I've got it, actually, as we've conversed via it!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
Who's General Failure & why's he reading my disk? (Stolen from another .sig)
Deddajay
> Oh, I've got Skype - I only finally got round to installing it on
> Christmas Eve or Day last year, but I use it. I was just wondering if
> Deddajay's remote app. will work OK alongside it (so I could talk to my
> friends while remote controlling their PC). I can't see why it
> shouldn't, but you never know.
>
> (You know I've got it, actually, as we've conversed via it!)
Hi John
No reason why it shouldn't, provided there is enough bandwidth. I've
never used Skype so I've no idea how much it uses. I just use the normal
landline with a speaker phone when I use Teamviewer, which works for us.
Hope this helps.
Deddajay
burt henry
spam. The webvisum solver never returns a result in less than 15-20
secs, and it is more like 30-40 most of the time I'd guess.
Stammers who want a lot of web-mail accounts, or facebook posts etc.
use cheap labor, yes ppl, and mostly in India. the brokers sell solved
captchas by the thousands; can't remember the price, but if you look
about on-line you can get the rates. They basically have captcha
solving sweatshops.
On that cheery note....
B.H.
BTW-your universal distro for accessible voting templates made to the
I.P. site, and the South African solution seems right-on.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
>>Christmas Eve or Day last year, but I use it. I was just wondering if
>>Deddajay's remote app. will work OK alongside it (so I could talk to
>No reason why it shouldn't, provided there is enough bandwidth. I've
>never used Skype so I've no idea how much it uses. I just use the
>normal landline with a speaker phone when I use Teamviewer, which works
>for us.
Thanks for that. (Neither of us has a speakerphone; you're right, it is
the hands-free aspect I was thinking of.)
I'll report back here when we've tried Teamviewer (probably with Skype).
zulu
"chris mcmillan" <spam...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:VQm+1KJA...@chris.mcmillan...
Well, I used it only an hour ago..
They *improved* it a few weeks ago and it is an absolute nightmare now.
It takes me twice as long as it used to.
I would _love_ to make the perpetrators sit behind me while i struggle with
it.
A message to Tesco:
IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.
--
�zulu� VIP
.
chris mcmillan
(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
>In message <6YKdnezD7ajV-B3W...@giganews.com>, Deddajay
><dedd...@bigcat.leonin.co.uk> writes:
>>J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>[]
>>>Christmas Eve or Day last year, but I use it. I was just wondering if
>>>Deddajay's remote app. will work OK alongside it (so I could talk to
>[]
>>No reason why it shouldn't, provided there is enough bandwidth. I've
>>never used Skype so I've no idea how much it uses. I just use the
>>normal landline with a speaker phone when I use Teamviewer, which
>>works for us.
>[]
>Thanks for that. (Neither of us has a speakerphone; you're right, it is
>the hands-free aspect I was thinking of.)
>
slightest chance which has proved to be a pain. A handset definitely
would be an inconvenience for what you're trying to do I think even
though it has a loudspeaker facility. In fact using a handset and
sitting at the computer is a real pain of the first order - at least it
is if you're a fully qualified typist which I am.
Sincerely Chris
>I'll report back here when we've tried Teamviewer (probably with Skype).
--
chris mcmillan
<zulu.romeo...@ntlworld.com> writes
zulu
maybe, but what I need is an email addy for the Tesco webmaster....
--
�zulu� VIP
chris mcmillan
hit the 'contact us' link.
And found all this lot. I suspect you'll end up having to speak to a
human at Tesco Direct
If you cannot find the answer to your query on our help pages, please
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By phone:
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Don't forget for your entertainment and books orders you can check your
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