What do you do with old cds?
Brian Gaff
of info for blind folk turn to CD distribution, there is increasingly a huge
pile of obsolete CDs around.
Does anyone know of any way to get rid of the mountain in a green way?
An allied question could also be, can we make something out iof them cheaply
enough to actually sell them as that item to recouped some lost revenue. I'm
thinking talking newspaper charities and the like here.
Any bright ideas?
My ideas.
Can one heat them and make small bowls as per old records?
Could one get stickers made to size and sell them as coasters?
Brian
--
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J. P. Gilliver (John)
>Kind of allied to IT and a lot else I guess, but as more and more suppliers
>of info for blind folk turn to CD distribution, there is increasingly a huge
>pile of obsolete CDs around.
>Does anyone know of any way to get rid of the mountain in a green way?
>An allied question could also be, can we make something out iof them cheaply
>enough to actually sell them as that item to recouped some lost revenue. I'm
>thinking talking newspaper charities and the like here.
>
>Any bright ideas?
. Unfortunately, there are so many of them that there is little actual
money to be made. There are several uses I know of: they're used in
sculptures (perhaps ask your local art college - or primary school for
that matter! - if they want them); people poke a cheap clock mechanism
through them and make clocks; and people string several of them together
as bird scarers to keep birds off crops (because they're shiny). ..
>My ideas.
>Can one heat them and make small bowls as per old records?
. I'm not sure those bowls were ever as popular as people thought;
besides, the hole in a CD is rather bigger. Also, I suspect today
there'd be more health and safety concerns than in those days. ..
>Could one get stickers made to size and sell them as coasters?
. Well, of course, you can certainly get labels for CDs/DVDs, on sheets
that go through printers - and some printers can print directly onto CDs
anyway; I suspect that for use as coasters, the labels - which are paper
- wouldn't last long enough. ..
>
>Brian
>
. I think the person who finds a _real_ use for them will get a certain
amount of fame (or notoriety). ..
. One "green" way to reduce things would be to persuade the providers to
use CD-RWs, which can then be sent back and re-used, or re-used by the
recipient to send on; however, the extra initial cost would require
careful consideration. Also, not all players - especially if we're
talking about audio CDs rather than computer ones - will play all CD-RWs
(or even all CD-Rs, come to that); although this is often used as an
excuse for not doing it at all, it shouldn't be beyond them to keep
record of which recipients have a problem with them, and use them for
everybody else.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
Odds are, the phrase "It's none of my business" will be followed by "but".
chris mcmillan
<bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>of info for blind folk turn to CD distribution, there is increasingly a huge
>pile of obsolete CDs around.
One use for them is as bird scarers. But I don't know how you'd market
them. Its something you hear mentioned on programmes like 'Gardeners'
Question Time' on Radio Four'.
Other than that I have no idea, Brian. We only duplicate them for
others to listen to. I used to use them for drinks mats but there is
only so many you can use in that way.
It would be worth asking one of the national conservation or recycling
groups though.
Sincerely Chris
>Does anyone know of any way to get rid of the mountain in a green way?
>An allied question could also be, can we make something out iof them cheaply
>enough to actually sell them as that item to recouped some lost revenue. I'm
>thinking talking newspaper charities and the like here.
>
>Any bright ideas?
>My ideas.
>Can one heat them and make small bowls as per old records?
>Could one get stickers made to size and sell them as coasters?
>
>Brian
>
--
Chris McMillan
http://www.chinavisionuk.org/
http://www.oneplusone.org.cn
Brian Gaff
If we at the tn only copied at that speed we would need a huge bank to
actually do the copy run in time for the post!
I did some tests with rewritables and they do not play in about half the
players I tried, and also seem to lose the ability to be reliable often as
soon as 10 times recording. Also, you need to do so called quick erase on
them every time, taking even mor time up.
If somone could make a truly compatible, instantly erasable reusable cd,
they would make a lot of money.
Brian
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"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:X71UYNFH...@soft255.demon.co.uk...
Brian Gaff
ongoing cost of non returnable devices like cds is going to cripple small
charities now that the RNIB is pressing TNAUK to phase out tape within 2
years ingfavour of CDs or sd cards, or so I'm told.
The problem they cite is getting the tape copiers maintained.
I strongly believe that there is no device like the cassette tape these days
operaable by blind people, and cheap. After all, it has a hardware bookmark
so you can use a tape and stop it, and then put it into a totally different
machine and it plays from where you left it!
What a great idea!
Brian
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"chris mcmillan" <spam...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:jcNzGYL3...@chris.mcmillan...
burt henry
shower of multicolor sparks in the microwave. I don't think you can get
any money out of them/mostly good for minor craft projects-make lamp
shades.... (gluing them edge to edge to make a multi faceted design),
but they are on there way out...
Burt
Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD?
Kernel Restore reported Major Error used BSOD to msg the enemy!
burt henry
users are phasing them out for the %10 failure rate for archived data,(I
know you can do checks when writing, but the whole thing is just too
slow), and with the ever increasing access to the net....cheap single
task devices will become more and more popular. It will take a few
years, but look how fast the cassette rose and fell/Moore's law and all
that will make the next step faster. I would not be surprised to see
vending machines to sell cached or d-loaded music by the song in
convenience stores and train stations for folks who don't have INTERNET
access/bank cards....
The cassette is nice, but as you say high maintainence and original
purchase costs compared with low sound quality, and short life/bulk...
Vinyl records have there strong suits as well... I prefer a live band,
and a personal (preferably female reader)
Burt
an
chris mcmillan
<bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>I think we may eventually go for the ramstick option then,
Well I personally do not like memory sticks. I find USBs very difficult
to use and I can still see well enough to use them. With stiff fingers
and not a lot of sense in the tips there is no way I would use a memory
stick if I lost so much sight I couldn't physically see what I was
doing. I know my husband says they're easy and fool proof, until I
remind him about myself. I think I'm belong the pale!
I had a look at the 'boombox' last week. Its probably the way to go for
one player, but I reckon I could end up not being able to operate the
simplest bit of kit in my extreme old age.
Cassettes were great for TNs, but they were rubbish for study purposes.
Just goes to show there's just simply not one answer.
Sincerely Chris
> as the sheer
>ongoing cost of non returnable devices like cds is going to cripple small
>charities now that the RNIB is pressing TNAUK to phase out tape within 2
>years ingfavour of CDs or sd cards, or so I'm told.
>
>The problem they cite is getting the tape copiers maintained.
>
>I strongly believe that there is no device like the cassette tape these days
>operaable by blind people, and cheap. After all, it has a hardware bookmark
>so you can use a tape and stop it, and then put it into a totally different
>machine and it plays from where you left it!
>What a great idea!
>Brian
>
--
chris mcmillan
<burt1...@gmail.com> writes
>you should as CDs are almost past tense as we write. I know that biz
>users are phasing them out for the %10 failure rate for archived data,
Well, we're still using CDs in our company, Burt. No one has yet asked
us for material on a memory stick, though we could certainly do it if
required. At long last CDs do seem to be stable when writing to them.
I've had more than my share of drinks CD mats.
Sincerely Chris
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>In message <hfighj$hoe$1...@news.albasani.net>, burt henry
><burt1...@gmail.com> writes
>>you should as CDs are almost past tense as we write. I know that biz
>>users are phasing them out for the %10 failure rate for archived data,
>
>Well, we're still using CDs in our company, Burt. No one has yet asked
. How often do you refresh (copy) them - or, at least, check them? I've
had more than I would have expected work fine after I've written them,
only for them to refuse to read some years later. It's only a couple,
but considering how few I write, it's a significant proportion.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
Reality and talent shows lack honesty. They manipulate the viewer with mawkish
stories. Contestants turn tragedies into qualifications. - Sean Lock, in Radio
Times, 20-26 June 2009
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>In message <7pUSm.12645$Ym4....@text.news.virginmedia.com>, Brian Gaff
><bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>>I think we may eventually go for the ramstick option then,
>
>Well I personally do not like memory sticks. I find USBs very
>difficult to use and I can still see well enough to use them. With
. Hmm. I _think_ I could use them without looking, but they aren't the
easiest; How do you get on with for example SD cards? .
. I think some sort of guidance funnel could be made for USB sticks if
you _had_ to use them. .
. I would have thought CDs would not be the easiest to handle if you
have poor touch or control, either. ..
[]
>proof, until I remind him about myself. I think I'm belong the pale!
(That's "beyond" - it actually derives from British rule over Ireland!)
>
>I had a look at the 'boombox' last week. Its probably the way to go
>for one player, but I reckon I could end up not being able to operate
>the simplest bit of kit in my extreme old age.
. That's some time yet! By then, hopefully, voice control will finally
be good enough. ..
>
>Cassettes were great for TNs, but they were rubbish for study purposes.
>
>Just goes to show there's just simply not one answer.
>
. Indeed. ..
chris mcmillan
(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
>In message <OWTYkzOJ...@chris.mcmillan>, chris mcmillan
><spam...@ntlworld.com> writes:
>>In message <7pUSm.12645$Ym4....@text.news.virginmedia.com>, Brian
>>Gaff <bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>>>I think we may eventually go for the ramstick option then,
>>
>>Well I personally do not like memory sticks. I find USBs very
>>difficult to use and I can still see well enough to use them. With
>
>. Hmm. I _think_ I could use them without looking, but they aren't the
>easiest; How do you get on with for example SD cards? .
>
>
>. I would have thought CDs would not be the easiest to handle if you
>have poor touch or control, either. ..
>[]
too big for my hand span and I am not above getting fingers on them and
*I do get shouted at*! With cassettes at least I could put them in and
play them.
But more to the point how are people with conditions such as arthritis,
Parkinsons or CP of the fingers going to manage memory sticks? The
first two are conditions not exactly unknown to the older person.
>
>>proof, until I remind him about myself. I think I'm belong the pale!
>
>(That's "beyond" - it actually derives from British rule over Ireland!)
>>
Doh. Not only have the eyes got worse I think the brain has packed up!
>
>. That's some time yet! By then, hopefully, voice control will finally
>be good enough. ..
>>
I doubt it. The theory may be great but you'd have to be a very good
voice control to deal with all types of voices and accents. I'm not
holding my breath.
Sincerely Chris
J. P. Gilliver (John)
<spam...@ntlworld.com> writes:
[]
>>. Hmm. I _think_ I could use them without looking, but they aren't the
>>easiest; How do you get on with for example SD cards? .
>>
>I haven't used them.
. How do you get the pictures out of your camera - by USB lead? ..
[]
>>. That's some time yet! By then, hopefully, voice control will finally
>>be good enough. ..
>>>
>I doubt it. The theory may be great but you'd have to be a very good
>voice control to deal with all types of voices and accents. I'm not
>holding my breath.
>
>Sincerely Chris
. Although it is improving, although very slowly, I would agree with you
in general. However, for something specific like one's own equipment,
with a limited number of commands, and one person giving them, I think
it is more or less usable now, and should improve as time goes on.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
... much to the surprise of everyone else in the galaxy, who had not realised
that the best way not to be unhappy is not to have a word for it. (Link
episode)
chris mcmillan
(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
>In message <Q$0PeOMUb...@chris.mcmillan>, chris mcmillan
><spam...@ntlworld.com> writes:
>[]
>>>. Hmm. I _think_ I could use them without looking, but they aren't
>>>the easiest; How do you get on with for example SD cards? .
>>>
>>I haven't used them.
>
>. How do you get the pictures out of your camera - by USB lead? ..
>[]
>>>. That's some time yet! By then, hopefully, voice control will
>>>finally be good enough. ..
>>>>
>>I doubt it. The theory may be great but you'd have to be a very good
>>voice control to deal with all types of voices and accents. I'm not
>>holding my breath.
>>
>>Sincerely Chris
>
>. Although it is improving, although very slowly, I would agree with
>you in general. However, for something specific like one's own
>equipment, with a limited number of commands, and one person giving
>them, I think it is more or less usable now, and should improve as time
>goes on.
Other half doesn't seem so sure about it. I suspect its like those phone
things where you have to say place names. Either my speech is
particularly poor (and I can manage place names as well as any station
announcer) or those speech recognition systems are.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
<spam...@ntlworld.com> writes:
[]
>>. How do you get the pictures out of your camera - by USB lead? ..
. Did you answer that? I was just thinking, the camera end of those
leads is usually very tiny. ..
>>[]
>>>>. That's some time yet! By then, hopefully, voice control will
>>>>finally be good enough. ..
[]
>Other half doesn't seem so sure about it. I suspect its like those
>phone things where you have to say place names. Either my speech is
>particularly poor (and I can manage place names as well as any station
>announcer) or those speech recognition systems are.
[]
. No, remember that those have to work with lots of people. One's own
equipment would be trained to work with just one's voice, and a very
limited set of commands.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
... on Thursdays on BBC Two, the former BBC2. (John Peel in "Radio Times", 1-7
May 1999.)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
In message <Q$0PeOMUb...@chris.mcmillan>, chris mcmillan
<spam...@ntlworld.com> writes:
[]
>>. Hmm. I _think_ I could use them without looking, but they aren't the
>>easiest; How do you get on with for example SD cards? .
>>
>I haven't used them.
Ask someone to show you theirs.
[]
>I feel more confident with CDs because of their size but they are a bit
>too big for my hand span and I am not above getting fingers on them and
>*I do get shouted at*! With cassettes at least I could put them in and
>play them.
How about the small CDs?
>
>But more to the point how are people with conditions such as arthritis,
>Parkinsons or CP of the fingers going to manage memory sticks? The
>first two are conditions not exactly unknown to the older person.
I think a funnel could be constructed. The least obvious part to me is
how to get them (USB devices) the right way up; I know how (either seam
down on the plug, or USB symbol up, but both aren't easy to see. Though
large blob on the device would solve that.
[]
>>. That's some time yet! By then, hopefully, voice control will finally
>>be good enough. ..
>>>
>I doubt it. The theory may be great but you'd have to be a very good
>voice control to deal with all types of voices and accents. I'm not
For controlling your own equipment, it only needs to be able to
recognise/understand your voice, and a limited number of words/phrases.
>holding my breath.
[]
That would make your voice funny and probably make the recognition not
work too well ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
"It occurred to me this morning that many system design flaws can be traced to
unwarrantedly anthropomorphizing the user." - Steven Maker
Mike Russell
>>holding my breath.
>
> That would make your voice funny and probably make the recognition not
> work too well ...
LOL
--
Mike Russell - http://www.curvemeister.com
Brian Gaff
capable of playing mp3 cds, then the time limitation could be overcome for
everyone. However, although these would be good for books, foor newspapers,
the cost would be crazy for charitable organisations to absorb, and might
mean charging for the service, much like TNAUK do. Not being reusable also
means that there is a big load of useless cds out there to be gotten rid of
in landfill.
Memory sticks were not designed well. They have a lot of leverage on the
connector which in the end will either break the player or the stick. How
long does a socket last for?
Our plan should we go digital is to use a furry dot on the side of the stick
and then once folk know which way up they fit in their particular player,
it will always be the same.
Is it any harder than the problem we have with tapes where some go in back
first, and some front first?
SD cards are designed to get lost. Somone needs to realise that although
its cool to have huge storage the size of a pin head, there are limits to
what is practical. The SD card is the size it is due to its original reason
for being, namely removable storage in small cameras.
Maybe its time for a rethink here. An SD card mounted in a little cassette
shaped device as we used to see for card radio CD players. The snag as
always would be control of the playback of course. I do forsee a multi card
holder though that might well be bigger, and then we could all use wav files
instead of grotty mp3s!
Brian
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"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:VeVERFcg...@soft255.demon.co.uk...
Brian Gaff
I have a Parrot voicemate or two here, and we allk know of course that any
noise, excessive echo etc, makes it virtually unusable I've been hearing
much the same from users of smart phones as well, even quite recent ones
that do lots of things besides.
Nothing else for it, we need implanted electrodes for this kind of thing.
grin
Brian
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"Mike Russell" <grou...@MOVEcurvemeister.com> wrote in message
news:159t3cch...@mike.curvemeister.com...
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>Well, I think for a start, it would be helpful if cd players were all
>capable of playing mp3 cds, then the time limitation could be overcome for
. Many new ones are, but you'd still have to cater for people with older
ones. ..
>everyone. However, although these would be good for books, foor newspapers,
>the cost would be crazy for charitable organisations to absorb, and might
>mean charging for the service, much like TNAUK do. Not being reusable also
>means that there is a big load of useless cds out there to be gotten rid of
>in landfill.
. True, though in the absolute scheme of things the quantity isn't that
huge - especially if we can find some manufacture to make the smaller
ones at closer to what they do cost, or at least no more than the
full-size ones! ..
>
>Memory sticks were not designed well. They have a lot of leverage on the
>connector which in the end will either break the player or the stick. How
>long does a socket last for?
. A very good point. I would recommend anyone using them frequently to
get hold of a small extension lead; the model of USB hub sold by
Poundshops and the like a year or two ago used to come with a little
lead (about a six inch one), and you can put the hub to one side and
just use the lead! Though it would make sense to use the hub too, as
that gives you three or four more sockets to wear out. You could even
make the funnel I was thinking of out of one of these hubs, if you
didn't want to glue anything to your actual computer. ..
>Our plan should we go digital is to use a furry dot on the side of the stick
>and then once folk know which way up they fit in their particular player,
>it will always be the same.
. Good idea; a similar dot on the player would be perhaps an idea. ..
>Is it any harder than the problem we have with tapes where some go in back
>first, and some front first?
. No, once you're used to it, it isn't. Well, it is slightly, in that
tapes - I assume you mean cassettes - have a fairly obvious orientation,
but many USB devices are pretty symmetrical, so it isn't obvious. But
your fuzzy dot will solve that for anyone capable of feeling it. ..
>SD cards are designed to get lost. Somone needs to realise that although
. You haven't seen the micro SD type! and the XD size is still smaller
than the SD one. ..
>its cool to have huge storage the size of a pin head, there are limits to
>what is practical. The SD card is the size it is due to its original reason
>for being, namely removable storage in small cameras.
>
. Well, it is indeed designed for that, though lots of other things use
it, such as my little scanner and Julia's Booksense and I think
Bookport. However, of the various card formats, I'd say the SD is the
most robust.
>
>Maybe its time for a rethink here. An SD card mounted in a little cassette
>shaped device as we used to see for card radio CD players. The snag as
. When they first started to be used in cameras, there was a floppy disc
adapter for one of the card formats, I forget which one; however, you
would probably have some difficulty finding such now, and of course many
new PCs - including, AFAIK, all notebooks/laptops and netbooks - don't
have a floppy drive any more. ..
>always would be control of the playback of course. I do forsee a multi card
. Well, external card readers which take a multitude of card types are
both common and cheap (ebuyer have one at 3.33,
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/161845, which claims to do 13 types, one
at 5.09 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/161219 claiming 80 plus somewhere
to store cards and the lead, and so on). ..
>holder though that might well be bigger, and then we could all use wav files
>instead of grotty mp3s!
[]
. Oh dear, I hope you're not one of those people with golden ears! MP3
is capable of perfectly good quality - and, like all digital audio,
grotty quality too. It's not mp3 itself that is grotty - it's whoever
created it using too low a bitrate, and often not telling their encoder
that the source was mono (if it is), or using too high a sample rate,
before encoding. Having said all that, cards now have such huge
capacities that you can start to use raw WAV files anyway for a lot of
things! .
. (I've just realised you meant a reader for many cards of the same type
so as to increase the capacity, not the sort I looked up.) ..
. I think portable sound media - except for use when jogging/travelling,
and possibly not even there - will increasingly become a passing stage
anyway: broadband download, either direct or via wireless, will come in
time. Except, of course, for some people in some areas, who will get
very cross.
Brian Gaff
weakly.Taking the point about the small cds first. Most of the RNIB supplied
daisy/mp3 players cannot use these as they have a kind of roller device that
loads the cd. These would require an adaptor to play them.
Unfortunately, rewritable media like cdrws, can only be recorded at 4 times
speed and require to be erased beforehand which takes time.
Cassettes on the other hand erase as they record, both sides at the same
time at 16 times speed, making it 32 times minus the rewind time.
Cassettes have hardware bookmarking, meaning that the format will retain
where it is no matter what player you put it into. Most domestic ram or sd
card players do not mark positions of where you pressed stop before you
removed than media.
The quality of cassette is perfectly adequate for most speech purposes.
The pro side of digital is that one can obviously get a lot more onto solid
state than you can on cassette. If you talk mp3 cd, then its true here too,
but of course not ones standard one, as although you can use 90 minute
blanks, some players get into trouble trying to play them.
The connector issue does worry me. I have seen duplication machines for ram
etc, with 20 or more slots, but as the same cards/sticks are going around
and around, and even being charitable one must assume the plugs are not
military quality, we must assume they will stop working at some point.
CD tower copiers are known to be inherently unreliable in the trade,
sometimes producing what appear to be fine copies which have 'holes' in
the data newar the outside of the disc, or such poor recording that the
tracking data for skipping to next track fails on some players.. You record
at more than 16 times at your peril.
With regard to mp3 vs wav. I think it depends on program material. The
losses on mp3s are mainly due to phase information changes, and some
material shows this up in the detail of ambience material. Its much the same
with video on our digital TV. Recently a lot of folk watch that rubbish in
the so called jungle, and saw a very annoying effect in the foliage of
wobbling edges and blurring. This was caused by the changes needed from one
field to the next was greater than the compression allowed. In a similar
way, audio gets into the same problems. As you say, the encoder is the key,
but thee fact remains that you re not sending the info that was there to
start with, indeed no system can do this completely accurately, but
compression ads more problems because its under the control of a bit of
software which tries to disguise it.
You often do hear the problems, but put them down to recording choices, but
compare a really good recording with the mp3 of the same one and you will
hear it.
One of the problems I notice if I've been listening to an mp3 player for a
time is that although one is not aware of it when listening, the ears or
brain have realised that there is a cyclic change going on, and when you
take the earphones off, the world seems to have a kind of modulation noise
on sound for some minutes. This seems not to occur if listening to a CD on
headphones, so one has to conclude that there are subtle very fast level
changes going on one is not initially aware of.
With regard to downloads and streaming over the web. Maybe the next
generation of blind folk will not need tns as they will read their news
online using artificial voices, but given that most local papers seem to be
reducing the number of articles you can read on line and plasteering adverts
everywhere, I do wonder if news like this of a local nature will be viable
at all! Nobody wants to pay for it after all.
At present, and for around the next decade, we have to look at continuing
with at least something resembling a talking newspaper. It would be nice to
say it could be delivered over the internet, but this is not going to be by
getting computers into the hands of the elderly blind on masse.Most do not
want this complexity in their lives. If it happens at all, it will be via
devices like the the Sonata (formally Orion web box) which you pay a
subscription to, and someone maintains a playlist for you via a proxy
server. This makes it easy to use.
You do, however loose the portability of the cassette in this case, and get
embroiled in format choices and all of that complex stuff, as well as a new
set of negotiations with each publication used as it is now going to be
available in some form via the internet.
The problem really is that nobody seems to have realised what we have in a
cassette tape. Obviously its serial access is a problem for long items, but
for short snappy ones its still got a lot to commend it to people, and I
think its problems with lead free solder and the vested interests of big
business who want to sell a new format every few years which is to blame for
any demise. I seem to have no problem getting tapes second hand of course as
people either transfer them to other formats or ditch cassettes, but the
machines are the key. Without someone willing to supply these at reasonably
cost and quality, than it will be killed off.
Nobody seems to have taken the plus points of the tape and of the random
access disc and solid state memory, and produced a recording a playback
system that is easy to use, with tactile controls that stay selected through
power offs etc. I'm sure if someone did this, they would make a killing, no
matter which format they used. Indeed, its not so much the hard storage
which is the issue here, but the way its presented to the public.
Is it easy to use? At the moment its a definite no, from most people over
about 32...
Brian
Brian
--
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Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:TXyVjox9...@soft255.demon.co.uk...
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>Hi, the use I am referring to is talking newspapers of course, which are
>weakly.Taking the point about the small cds first. Most of the RNIB supplied
>daisy/mp3 players cannot use these as they have a kind of roller device that
>loads the cd. These would require an adaptor to play them.
>
thought either the drawer or the accessible-spindle types would be
preferable. I have seen adapters for the little CDs, but not for a while
- and I'm not sure they'd fit through the slot, assuming the roller-type
players use a slot. ..
>
>Unfortunately, rewritable media like cdrws, can only be recorded at 4 times
>speed and require to be erased beforehand which takes time.
. I agree I haven't seen any of the rewritable blanks with a speed
greater than 4. Not sure about the erase though - there is some sort of
"quick format" that can be done. ..
>Cassettes on the other hand erase as they record, both sides at the same
>time at 16 times speed, making it 32 times minus the rewind time.
. The problem of course is the continued supply/maintenance of the
mechanisms.
>Cassettes have hardware bookmarking, meaning that the format will retain
>where it is no matter what player you put it into. Most domestic ram or sd
>card players do not mark positions of where you pressed stop before you
>removed than media.
. This is a valid point. However, it should not be used as a reason to
stop for ever: research can still happen. Some player (by which I mean
software) must surely be devisable which, for example, writes a little
file when you press stop, and reads it when you press play (starting
from the beginning if the file is not present). ..
>The quality of cassette is perfectly adequate for most speech purposes.
. That's an important point: the x4 rating of the RW discs means that
CD-quality .WAV files can be written to them at 4x the speed they would
be played at. An mp3 file of a quality similar to that of cassette would
be writable at, I think, at least ten times as fast, matching your
cassette speed. In fact I suspect, especially where the source is mono
and the mp3 encoder is told this, it could be considerably faster. ..
>
>The pro side of digital is that one can obviously get a lot more onto solid
>state than you can on cassette. If you talk mp3 cd, then its true here too,
>but of course not ones standard one, as although you can use 90 minute
>blanks, some players get into trouble trying to play them.
>
. I agree, I wouldn't try to use 90 minute blanks (they're harder to
find and more expensive too). As you concede, though, the ordinary
80-minute ones can hold a lot more than 80 minutes of mp3 rather than
CD-audio. (Incidentally, most - all I've seen - domestic DVD players can
play mp3 audio - though how VH-friendly they are, and how
family-friendly wanting to use the family DVD player to read the
newspaper, is another matter!) Another thought: if you really must stick
with the CD-audio format, you've still got twice as long if you use
mono! ..
>
>The connector issue does worry me. I have seen duplication machines for ram
>etc, with 20 or more slots, but as the same cards/sticks are going around
>and around, and even being charitable one must assume the plugs are not
>military quality, we must assume they will stop working at some point.
. Agreed. (Though presumably cassettes fail too.) ..
>CD tower copiers are known to be inherently unreliable in the trade,
>sometimes producing what appear to be fine copies which have 'holes' in
>the data newar the outside of the disc, or such poor recording that the
>tracking data for skipping to next track fails on some players.. You record
>at more than 16 times at your peril.
. Once again, though, that's 16x for CD audio. ..
>
>With regard to mp3 vs wav. I think it depends on program material. The
>losses on mp3s are mainly due to phase information changes, and some
>material shows this up in the detail of ambience material. Its much the same
. Agreed. There are some kinds of material which are very hard to encode
into mp3 without audible artefacts - and these are different to the type
of artefacts you get with tape (which is basically hiss and treble cut).
However, you did say you were referring to talking newspapers. I will
admit I'm not involved, but I'm assuming this involves mostly speech,
and also that the essential point is the conveyance of the information.
..
>with video on our digital TV. Recently a lot of folk watch that rubbish in
>the so called jungle, and saw a very annoying effect in the foliage of
>wobbling edges and blurring. This was caused by the changes needed from one
>field to the next was greater than the compression allowed. In a similar
>way, audio gets into the same problems. As you say, the encoder is the key,
>but thee fact remains that you re not sending the info that was there to
>start with, indeed no system can do this completely accurately, but
>compression ads more problems because its under the control of a bit of
>software which tries to disguise it.
. Agreed, though see above again - for TN use, I don't think this is an
insurmountable problem. ..
[]
>take the earphones off, the world seems to have a kind of modulation noise
>on sound for some minutes. This seems not to occur if listening to a CD on
>headphones, so one has to conclude that there are subtle very fast level
>changes going on one is not initially aware of.
. I would argue that there's at least some chance that that's an encoder
parameter; anyway, for the TN speech application, I suspect any such
effects will be comparable in intrusiveness to aspects of competing
technologies. ..
>
>With regard to downloads and streaming over the web. Maybe the next
>generation of blind folk will not need tns as they will read their news
>online using artificial voices, but given that most local papers seem to be
>reducing the number of articles you can read on line and plasteering adverts
>everywhere, I do wonder if news like this of a local nature will be viable
>at all! Nobody wants to pay for it after all.
. Agreed it's a continuing problem, but doesn't affect the
cassette-versus-alternative debate: if you've got volunteers willing to
read, wherever they get what they read from, you've got the recordings;
it's then a question of how you distribute them, be it cassette, CD
audio, CD MP3, memory stick or card MP3 (or other audio format), or
wireless or other electronic means of distribution (again, of MP3 or raw
audio). ..
>
>At present, and for around the next decade, we have to look at continuing
>with at least something resembling a talking newspaper. It would be nice to
>say it could be delivered over the internet, but this is not going to be by
>getting computers into the hands of the elderly blind on masse.Most do not
>want this complexity in their lives. If it happens at all, it will be via
>devices like the the Sonata (formally Orion web box) which you pay a
>subscription to, and someone maintains a playlist for you via a proxy
>server. This makes it easy to use.
. Many people have a resistance to subscription, and I'm also a bit
reluctant to be reliant on someone maintaining something in that way. I
would have thought one of the Linux evangelists could devise a way of
turning one of the smaller computers into something very like a cassette
player, but which plays USB sticks and memory cards. Ideally something
where the software is put in non-volatile RAM, so a discless unit could
be used - perhaps one of the ones with a touch screen, so it could be
made to look very like a cassette player (with tactile areas if
necessary for the completely blind). ..
>
>You do, however loose the portability of the cassette in this case, and get
>embroiled in format choices and all of that complex stuff, as well as a new
>set of negotiations with each publication used as it is now going to be
>available in some form via the internet.
. Indeed - nothing is easy! Though presumably such negotiations have
been done regarding reading onto tape. ..
>
>The problem really is that nobody seems to have realised what we have in a
>cassette tape. Obviously its serial access is a problem for long items, but
>for short snappy ones its still got a lot to commend it to people, and I
>think its problems with lead free solder and the vested interests of big
>business who want to sell a new format every few years which is to blame for
. You cynic, you! However, I think CD, SD, and USB are pretty well
established now, and not going away soon. ..
>any demise. I seem to have no problem getting tapes second hand of course as
>people either transfer them to other formats or ditch cassettes, but the
>machines are the key. Without someone willing to supply these at reasonably
>cost and quality, than it will be killed off.
. Indeed. And we're in the usual VH problem - quantities too low to be
economic, so prices likely to go through the roof, and even then
supplies to dry up. ..
>
>Nobody seems to have taken the plus points of the tape and of the random
>access disc and solid state memory, and produced a recording a playback
>system that is easy to use, with tactile controls that stay selected through
>power offs etc. I'm sure if someone did this, they would make a killing, no
>matter which format they used. Indeed, its not so much the hard storage
>which is the issue here, but the way its presented to the public.
. Agreed. If one of the small computers was the basis, then they run for
a long time on batteries, though may still have problems when that runs
out - though I would hope my hypothetical Linux enthusiast could get
round that. ..
>
>Is it easy to use? At the moment its a definite no, from most people over
>about 32...
. I still think it could be made to be. (I'm curious: 32 seems rather a
precise number, even if you did say "about" - any particular reason for
choosing it? [I'm 49 going in 50, incidentally.)
>
>Brian
>Brian
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
"Imminent Death of the Net Predicted. GIFs at 11." - Carl Rigney
Brian Gaff
hence the costs are low. There are machines for ramdisk pens like the boom
box about now, but I have no idea if anyone makes them recordable and
bookmarkable. I suspect not.
There are of course the small olympus units around that use sd cards, but
theey are fiddly and expensive still.
I have no idea why the cd daisy machines the rnib loan out have slots. It
was, I understand, possibly due to the lid and drawer being breakable if
someone was clumsy with the unit.
If you know where we can get really cheap small cds though that can be
recorded, then I'm all ears.
The writable cds with erase problem. It takes around a minute to erase a
rewritable in fast mode.
it destroys the index.
Having tested a number of current and older cd players, very few can play
rewritable's, claiming no disc. As you say, dvd players will always play
them and will mostly play mp3 files, while it seems mostly portable units
have mp3 capabilities on them for cd.
The snag with the dvd player seems to be that whereas straight cds play as
soon as you insert them, the mp3 mode demands screen access tos select
stuff.
Brian
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cqCGsIGL...@soft255.demon.co.uk...
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>Hi, well, the problem as always is that the cassette is/was mass market and
>hence the costs are low. There are machines for ramdisk pens like the boom
. Probably still just about qualifies, though maintenance of duplicating
equipment is going to get more difficult. ..
>box about now, but I have no idea if anyone makes them recordable and
>bookmarkable. I suspect not.
. I suspect not too (though for your purposes their not being recordable
might be a good thing - but bookmarking would be nice. They probably do
have a pause function, but only within the machine). ..
>
>There are of course the small olympus units around that use sd cards, but
>theey are fiddly and expensive still.
>
. Indeed. (Although it does irritate me - and my friends - that much
equipment for the VH is also very chunky; by no means all VH people come
with a physical disability too! I suppose they have to cater for all,
and therefore when they only have funding to develop one model it comes
out chunky, but still - the Cobold timeswitch is an example of what I'm
talking about.) ..
>
>I have no idea why the cd daisy machines the rnib loan out have slots. It
>was, I understand, possibly due to the lid and drawer being breakable if
>someone was clumsy with the unit.
. Makes sense. (See above comments!) ..
>
>If you know where we can get really cheap small cds though that can be
>recorded, then I'm all ears.
. No, I've yet to see them anywhere not costing more than the full-size
ones, which is somewhat irritating (to sighted folk too)! If _you_ find
any such, please share ... ..
>
>The writable cds with erase problem. It takes around a minute to erase a
>rewritable in fast mode.
. Fair enough. ..
>
>it destroys the index.
. It erases it, yes. ..
>
>Having tested a number of current and older cd players, very few can play
>rewritable's, claiming no disc. As you say, dvd players will always play
>them and will mostly play mp3 files, while it seems mostly portable units
>have mp3 capabilities on them for cd.
>
>The snag with the dvd player seems to be that whereas straight cds play as
>soon as you insert them, the mp3 mode demands screen access tos select
>stuff.
. Ah - typical sighted person, I hadn't thought through that aspect.
However, presumably the same set of keystrokes would get it to the play
point, which the owner could learn, but obviously it's less convenient.
The portable ones are probably a better bet, if they mostly play mp3s
now as you say. ..
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
"I was showing her the sights of London - you know, Buckminster Castle, St.
Paul's Abbey ..." Sir Les Patterson, Australian Cultural Attache (Barry
Humphries) on "Parkinson" 1982-1-30
burt henry
diskman-type cd player that played rewriteable cd's just fine; mp3's as
well.
The only big problem I remember was a rather distracted or foolish
bus-driver in a U.S. bus-station who picked up my pack to "assist me".
He didn't bother to check if it was right side up and or closed, and the
little machine fell on to the hard floor breaking cover hinge/still
works though. Cost maybe 15 pounds. It's some unknown brand I bought in
Mexico, but I've heard of other newer players that will work with r- and
r+ cd's (r&w).
Burt
Brian Gaff
for multiple discs so far encountered are made by Sony, and not very
expensive either. Sadly, they are headphone only.
Brian
--
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Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"burt henry" <burt1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hipd8r$440$1...@news.albasani.net...
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>Maybe I just got lucky, but about a year ago I got a low-end
>diskman-type cd player that played rewriteable cd's just fine; mp3's
>as well.
>The only big problem I remember was a rather distracted or foolish
>bus-driver in a U.S. bus-station who picked up my pack to "assist me".
>He didn't bother to check if it was right side up and or closed, and
>the little machine fell on to the hard floor breaking cover hinge/still
>works though. Cost maybe 15 pounds. It's some unknown brand I bought
>in Mexico, but I've heard of other newer players that will work with r-
>and r+ cd's (r&w).
. That would be R and RW; the + and - (plus and minus) only applies to
DVDs, which come in DVD+R, DVD-R, DVD+RW, and DVD-RW (the ones with the
W being reusable, i. e. erasable). CDs only come in R and RW - no plus
and minus, though a dash is sometimes used, CD-R and CD-RW.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>Yeah, nearly all walkman style ones. The only ones with a bookmark facility
>for multiple discs so far encountered are made by Sony, and not very
>expensive either. Sadly, they are headphone only.
. What do you mean by that - no line out? If you just mean there are no
built-in speakers, then there are plenty of little (and not so little)
plug-in speakers.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI.