[news.admin.policy, et al.] Re: ATTN: DEATH THREAT from Moslem Students
Carl M Kadie
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc
From: herb...@lassie.enet.dec.com (B.J.)
Subject: Re: ATTN: DEATH THREAT from Moslem Students
Message-ID: <1993Apr26.1...@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 15:57:32 GMT
In article <1993Apr25.2...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, dchat...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> Some intolerant Muslim [ XXX ] is issuing death-threat
> openly on SCI/ SCP/ SCB to anyone who dares speak *against* Muhammad -
> Please suggest (who reads this message) how best we can stop this nonsense,
> P.S: This death-threat was _not_ against me, but, I think that it warrants
> serious attention.
If you feel threatened, or believe that a murderous attack or other
crime is likely, contact appropriate police officers.
If you think the poster has misunderstood the nature of the postings
that annoyed him, contact the poster politely to discuss the situation.
If you feel that the messages are merely annoying, ignore them.
B.J.
--
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent any organization; this is just me.
= ka...@cs.uiuc.edu =
Carl M Kadie
From: dh...@infocom.co.uk (David Hunt)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc
Subject: Re: ATTN: DEATH THREAT from Moslem Students
Message-ID: <21...@infocom.co.uk>
Date: 26 Apr 93 17:53:59 GMT
contact the POLICE immediately, don't wait, this type of behaviour needs
stamping out at its' source
This person (if it can be proven that it was him) will be spending quite
some time in prison, me thinks :-))
Dave
--
Internet Sites: in...@infocom.co.uk | Send an email to one of the addresses
For Janet Sites: in...@uk.co.infocom | on the left for further information
Carl M Kadie
From: wor...@centurylub.com (Bret D. Wortman: WordMan)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc
Subject: Re: ATTN: DEATH THREAT from Moslem Students
Message-ID: <1993Apr26...@centurylub.com>
Date: 26 Apr 93 18:00:45 CDT
dchat...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> Hello:
Hi, Deb.
> (ii) it is a *direct* violation of USENET rules, that, personally
> threaten the person who is posting it.
This goes a *lot* further than USENET rule violations. This is
probably aggravated assault, if not assault. You could probably file
charges against this guy if you wanted to, or take other protective
legal means.
Don't mess around with this. Protect yourself. I don't know much
about your faith or his (I'm an agnostic, myself), but he sounds, for
lack of a better word, fanatical. He also sounds to me like he's
perfectly capable and willing to carry through on his threat.
Call the police. If they don't help (and you might want to do this
anyway), contact the FBI. The Feds will probably be more help, since
it'd be an interstate matter.
But whatever you do, take this seriously. If you do, and nothing
happens, you have lost nothing. If you don't, and he *does* decide to
make good, you'll have gained everything.
I realize that this particular threat was not directed to you, but
don't wait for that to happen. I'd also contact your friends/contacts
and ensure that they are taking steps as well. Coordinate your
efforts, it might make the authorities easier to approach if you do so
en masse.
I wish you well.
WordMan
--
________________________________________________________________________________
Bret D. Wortman __ __ ____ __ Century Lubricants Co.
wor...@centurylub.com / /_ /| / / / / /_/ /__/ 2140 S. 88th St.
wor...@decus.org /__ /__ / |/ / /__/ / | / Kansas City, KS 66111
>>> USE wor...@centurylub.com@uu6.psi.com IF ALL ELSE FAILS <<<
________________________________________________________________________________
"Where's the smegging Shake'n'Vac?" "Sorry, I thought you were food."
Carl M Kadie
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc
From: don...@itchy.ee.udel.edu (Greg Donovan)
Subject: Re: ATTN: DEATH THREAT from Moslem Students
Message-ID: <1993Apr27.0...@udel.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 02:38:42 GMT
In article <21...@infocom.co.uk> dh...@infocom.co.uk (David Hunt) writes:
>contact the POLICE immediately, don't wait, this type of behaviour needs
>stamping out at its' source
>
>This person (if it can be proven that it was him) will be spending quite
>some time in prison, me thinks :-))
>
>Dave
Me thinks that you thinks wrong :-) ( say that 4 times fast )
There is very little way to authenticate this without sworn
affidavits from witnesses to the act of typing in the message.
However, if his University were to have installed cameras on all
the terminals and workstations for verification, yeah, thats the ticket !!
But all seriousness aside, we had a similiar situation a while
back. Someone that resides here at the University posted to
soc.culture.indian that "Muslims are bastards". This made a few
people mad, one mad enough to reply to postmaster. But this
was not one of the accounts that I administrate and the administration
here at UoD did nothing.
However, this is USENET, a large, twisted mess of information that
can be overwhelming at one moment and worthless in the next. Take
this "death threat' to be part of the worthless part.
Greg
-----
// Greg Donovan EE/CIS Labstaff CISC Ninety-something
// don...@udel.edu
// I do not speak for the University. Just me.
Carl M Kadie
From: ko...@bass.blues.sub.de (Kosta Kostis)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc
Subject: Re: ATTN: DEATH THREAT from Moslem Students
Message-ID: <Z87m3B...@bass.blues.sub.de>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 03:55:58 EDT
dchat...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> Some intolerant Muslim [ ind...@Rosie.UH.EDU ] is issuing death-threat
> openly on SCI/ SCP/ SCB to anyone who dares speak *against* Muhammad -
> their spiritual leader. He makes it explicit that he will find out that
> person and kill him (poster). This is a general threat to _all_ who does
> dare go against his religious feelings. (I have included the part of the
> message from that post, below.)
Well, I am not sure I can believe all this. You're sure it's not some
stupid kinda jerk putting us up here? Or someone who wants to make us
angry against muslim people? I'd really hate that.
> Please suggest (who reads this message) how best we can stop this nonsense
> once for all.
Isn't there anyone *at his site* able to *talk* to this person?
If the guy is honestly insisting to threaten people just because they
don't value *his* Prophet even after you've contacted him, then you
should tell us again. I think we will all glady send him a copy of the
Netiquette from allover the world. ;-) If that doesn't help, try to
report his actions to the news admin at his site. He/she may consider
expiration of the guy's accounts. There are more things you could try,
but that should be left to times, when nothing else helps.
Cheers
Kosta
--
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Kosta Kostis, Talstraße 25, D-6074 Rödermark 3, Germany
sample of ISO 8859-1 characters: ä ö ü Ä Ö Ü ß = ae oe ue AE OE UE ss
Carl M Kadie
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc
From: bet...@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Subject: Re: ATTN: DEATH THREAT from Moslem Students
Message-ID: <BETSYS.93A...@eris.cs.umb.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 19:20:31 GMT
There are legal issues here that go beyond the realm of what system
administrators are allowed to decide. It is also outside the realm of
what system administrators are responsible for punishing. The material
in question should be passed to the police (or college authorities if
it is a college) for their action. (loss of access may be a side
effect, depending on your university or corporation's policy. Ours is
quite clear on these issues.)
In the US, I do believe that the law is quite clear that making
specific threats of violence from one individual to another is a
crime and is NOT protected speech. This is not a system administration
issue; it is a legal issue. It would be the same if the person making
the threats used a telephone or a postal mail letter instead of email.
There are some lines between general ranting and making a threat to
a particular person. A post which says I am going to hurt YOU" is
pretty clearly over that line.
-----
Policy group disclaimer:
This posting represents my personal opinion at the time of posting.
I am using the net as a personal learning tool: nothing I write is
official policy unless explicitly labelled as "official" policy.
Please do not repost or anthologize this post without my permission.
thanks, Betsy.
--
System Administrator Internet: bet...@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston Phone : 617-287-6448
100 Morrissey Blvd Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393 of constant information....
Carl M Kadie
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc
From: mcc...@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Subject: Re: ATTN: DEATH THREAT from Moslem Students
Message-ID: <1993Apr28....@mksol.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 17:23:58 GMT
In <1993Apr25.2...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> dchat...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
Note that what you describe is much more than just 'against Usenet
rules'. If both of you happen to be in the United States, it is a
criminal violation as well as a threat to violate your civil rights.
Consider contacting the Federal Bureau of Investigation (assuming you
are in different states).
--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred....@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Carl M Kadie
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc
From: mcc...@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Subject: Re: ATTN: DEATH THREAT from Moslem Students
Message-ID: <1993Apr28....@mksol.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 17:28:02 GMT
In <1993Apr27.0...@udel.edu> don...@itchy.ee.udel.edu (Greg Donovan) writes:
>In article <21...@infocom.co.uk> dh...@infocom.co.uk (David Hunt) writes:
>>contact the POLICE immediately, don't wait, this type of behaviour needs
>>stamping out at its' source
>>
>>This person (if it can be proven that it was him) will be spending quite
>>some time in prison, me thinks :-))
>>
>>Dave
>Me thinks that you thinks wrong :-) ( say that 4 times fast )
No, methinks that he thinks right and you thinks wrong.
>There is very little way to authenticate this without sworn
>affidavits from witnesses to the act of typing in the message.
>However, if his University were to have installed cameras on all
>the terminals and workstations for verification, yeah, thats the ticket !!
Note his comment in parentheses. Once again, he is correct.
>But all seriousness aside, we had a similiar situation a while
>back. Someone that resides here at the University posted to
>soc.culture.indian that "Muslims are bastards". This made a few
>people mad, one mad enough to reply to postmaster. But this
>was not one of the accounts that I administrate and the administration
>here at UoD did nothing.
Note that this is not even close to being similar. Threatening
someone with physical harm is a criminal violation of United States
law. What you experienced was merely an obnoxious (but legal)
expression of opinion.
Carl M Kadie
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc
From: rd...@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil (LCDR Michael E. Dobson)
Subject: Re: ATTN: DEATH THREAT from Moslem Students
Message-ID: <C67r3...@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 21:45:06 GMT
To those of you in this thread who assert that the authorities will take no
action because this is USENET and there is no authentication, you could be
wrong. There is a recent case where a poster made a joke in the wrong
newsgroup about wanting the President's head on a pike on his front lawn.
His post was given to the authorities who did follow up on it. His parents
and he received a visit from the US Secret Service. He is now serving a
six month probation for his post. So, if the affected individual(s) feel
that the threat is genuine, they can contact the FBI and they might very
well pay a visit to the person who posted the threat.
Mike
--
LCDR Mike Dobson, Sys Admin for | Internet: rd...@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil
nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil | UUCP: ...uunet!mimsy!nmrdc1!rdc30
AT&T 3B2/600G Sys V R 3.2.3 | BITNET: dobson@usuhsb or nrd0mxd@vmnmdsc
CMC TCP/IP for 3B2 V 2.6.1 |
Carl M Kadie
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc
From: dg...@quads.uchicago.edu (David Farley)
Subject: Re: ATTN: DEATH THREAT from Moslem Students
Message-ID: <1993Apr29....@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 02:36:32 GMT
In article <C67r3...@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil> rd...@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil (LCDR Michael E. Dobson) writes:
>To those of you in this thread who assert that the authorities will take no
>action because this is USENET and there is no authentication, you could be
>wrong. There is a recent case where a poster made a joke in the wrong
>newsgroup about wanting the President's head on a pike on his front lawn.
>His post was given to the authorities who did follow up on it. His parents
>and he received a visit from the US Secret Service. He is now serving a
>six month probation for his post. So, if the affected individual(s) feel
>that the threat is genuine, they can contact the FBI and they might very
>well pay a visit to the person who posted the threat.
>
He received six month's probation for what? Making a joke or threatening the
President? I've always suspected that news postings are vetted by the FBI or
Secret Service for threats, and that any posting make a threat on the President
would result in a visit, but I would think they'd be able to make a judgement
call about it. (There was a case a couple years ago about a semi-famous actor
in New York who, when he was young and struggling, make a joke on a application
that he would kill the President if he didn't get the part. He got a visit,
but I don't think he was actually given any probation for it. IMHO - this is
a -really- stupid joke to pull.)
David
>Mike
>
>--
>LCDR Mike Dobson, Sys Admin for | Internet: rd...@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil
>nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil | UUCP: ...uunet!mimsy!nmrdc1!rdc30
>AT&T 3B2/600G Sys V R 3.2.3 | BITNET: dobson@usuhsb or nrd0mxd@vmnmdsc
>CMC TCP/IP for 3B2 V 2.6.1 |
--
David Farley The University of Chicago Library
312 702-3426 1100 East 57th Street, JRL-210
dg...@midway.uchicago.edu Chicago, Illinois 60637
Carl M Kadie
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.admin.misc,alt.folklore.urban
From: law...@acuson.com (Drew Lawson)
Subject: Re: ATTN: DEATH THREAT from Moslem Students
Message-ID: <1993Apr29.1...@acuson.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 18:25:35 GMT
In article <gthomas....@sfu.ca> gth...@fraser.sfu.ca (Guy Thomas) writes:
>
>Lets hand this over to alt.folklore.urban. Shall we?
>
>dg...@quads.uchicago.edu (David Farley) writes:
>
>
>>In article <C67r3...@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil> rd...@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil (LCDR Michael E. Dobson) writes:
>>>To those of you in this thread who assert that the authorities will take no
>>>action because this is USENET and there is no authentication, you could be
>>>wrong. There is a recent case where a poster made a joke in the wrong
>>>newsgroup about wanting the President's head on a pike on his front lawn.
>>>His post was given to the authorities who did follow up on it. His parents
>>>and he received a visit from the US Secret Service. He is now serving a
>>>six month probation for his post.
What was the charge?
There is nothing illegal about saying that you want the president's
head on a pike. It is one of the more civilized political comments
I've run into.
It _is_ illegal to threaten the President, but it takes more than words
to constitute a threat. If this mystery poster was on the White House
staff, the comment _could_ be construed as a threat. If he's the
assistant bumper wiper at Bubba's Car Wash and Pizza, he's just blowing
steam.
Drew "I'd like Tipper Gore's head on a pike" Lawson
--
+--------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| Drew Lawson | I had to sell my internal organs |
| law...@acuson.com | Just to pay the rent. |
| | -- Weird Al (When I was Your Age) |