Superman vs Trunks
MC
Torankusu-kaiou and the Roaming Explosive Pusfart
"MC" <mike.c...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:22Do5.168260$1h3.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Fight time: Superman vs Trunks, and the winner is???
Superman.
...if Trunks (a) has the heart disease that Goku contracted, (b) has been
poisoned with every toxin known to man, (c) had been dismembered, and (d) is
in a coma...
Otherwise, Trunks.
--
"Soylent Lasagna is made out of GARFIELD!"
"..."
"Well, at least we know there'll be enough to go around..."
--===*===--
Just say no to trolls, morons, and
"ppl who talk 2 u like this 4 some stupid reason."
--===*===--
Torankusu-kaiou
(and the Roaming Explosive Pusfart)
redmo...@ohayo.konbanwa
Homo erectus.
Ben DeLonge
MC wrote in message <22Do5.168260$1h3.3...@news20.bellglobal.com>...
>Fight time: Superman vs Trunks, and the winner is???
>
>
With violence, there's no real winner.
--
Love,Ben
"If I had one wish this is what it would be...
I'd ask you to spend all your time with me,
That we'd be together forever.
We'd buy a small house in south central L.A.
Raise lots of kids then we'd both join a gang
Just as long as we're together.
The things you make me wanna do
I'd rob a quik-e-mart for you
I'd go to the pound and let all the cats go free
Just as long as you'd be with me."
"I Wont Spend Another Night Alone"
------------------------
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The Evil Mechanic From Hell in His Big Ass Ford
THe only plausible fight ever would probably be Goku from the early
Saiyajin/Raditzu saga. At that time, post-crisis superman would mosty likely
give Goku a healthy run for his money, and maybe could have won. After the
Saiyajin saga, it's pretty stupid to compare anybody from DBZ to Superman.
--
David 'My sig is growing again' Bowden
Baka-san
AIM & Yahoo IM: MiraiDavid
ICQ: 42780616
Me: A big, fat, dumb-looking guy just got out of his truck and is headed
this way...
Randall: Professional truck driver alert! Professional truck driver alert!
'Star Trekkin', across the universe on the Starship Enterprise, under
Captain Kirk!
Star Trekkin', Across the universe, boldly going forward 'cause we can't
find reverse!
Kirk: Lieutenant Uhura, Report.
Uhura: There's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape 'em off, Jim!
Kirk: Annalysis, Mr. Spock.
Spock: Well, it's life Jim, but not as we know it, Captain.
Kirk: Medical update, Dr. McCoy.
McCoy: It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim!
Kirk: We come in peace, shoot to kill, men!
Uhura: Engine Room, Mr. Scott...
Scott: Ya' canna' change the laws of physics, Jim!
Kirk: Bridge to engine room, warp factor 9.
Scott: I canna' give 'er any more, captain, she's gonna blow!
Computer: Red Alert!
(BOOM!)
Star Trekkin', Across the Universe, on the Starship Enterprise, under
Captain Kirk!
Star Trekkin' Across The Universe, boldly going forward and things are
getting worse!'
I have resurrected my web site. It's now located at
http://fpage.cei.net/~sskakarrot
Jeremy_Swanson
His Big Ass Ford" <sskak...@cei.bakazone.net> wrote:
Damnit. We must just try and drag me out of the shadows. This fight is
not fair here. Just posting it in this newsgroup anyway. You people
refuse to admit Supereman has anytype of Superpower. Gokou if fighting
in DAMNIT DAMN DAMN DAMN Im tired of trying to argue w/ people who
wont even present both sides of the argument in this situation. Im not
talking about Talen or Foxtail because they are sorta fair but no.
They load Gokou up with all these powers and shit and say Post-crisis
Superman would get his azz whooped....(why).... well he is just a
pussy any way so it doesnt matter. Gokou is Da MANNNN thats what you
guys sound like jeeez. Im going back to lurking to many godfrey
danield vs threaeds.
"1.An Archangel is a Living Legend.
He is the greatest in his field. He is both famous and infamous. He holds
great notoriety. He is controversial. He is
the subject of conversation. His deeds appear impossible to perform.
2.An Archangel Cannot Be Ignored
His operations are on a grand scale. The story of his life shall create
jealousy among his enemies. He is flamboyant. He is noticed in the crowd.
In chaos
people want to know what he is doing. Even as the moon explodes over his
left shoulder, it is completely impossible to avert attentions from him.
3.An Archangel Senses Humor
He laughs at all jokes, aspecially those about himself. He often laughs
for no apparent reason at all. He senses humor where others cannot.
4.An Archangel Perseveres
He cannot be discouraged. His store of fortitude is infinite. He shall
continuously return after being thought to be dead.
5.An Archangel is Ingenious
He is a strategist. He understands plot. He invents and circumvents. He is
resourceful. He evolves. He is intuitive. He sees and understands things
that
others cannot.
6.An Archangel is Audacious.
He is bold. He conquers by assault. He is a leader. He is a brave warriar.
He cares not if his actions offend. He attempts the impossible.
7.An Archangel is Nonchalant.
He is calm and collected. He is not at all nervous. He never had any
nerves to begin with. He is placid. He is cool and at ease. He never feels
put out -
unless put out of doors.
8.An Archangel is Arrogant
He swaggers. He sneers in your face. He treads on your feet. He eats your
dinner, drinks your wine, borrows your money, pulls your nose, pets your
dog,
and he kisses your wife.
9.An Archangel Improvises.
He adapts. --->He plageurises<---. He plays fast and loose. He is a
difficult
target to hit. He exploits what is available. He has a quick mind.
10.An Archangel Thrives
He is quite comfortable in situations others dare not think about. His
enemies are more valuable to him than his friends. He seeks out and
creates
scenarios which others would wish to avoid. He flourishes in discontent.
He enjoys adversity.
11.An Archangel's Mind is Free
His thoughts are unfettered. He is called into action where free thought
is oppressed. He is a champion of intellectual liberty. He seeks always to
free the
minds of others.
12.An Archangel Grins
A TRUE Archangel winds it all up with a grin, one which nobody sees but
himself. He grins at the end of the day when his work is done. He goes
home. He
locks his door. He divests himself of his clothes. He puts out the light.
He gets into bed. He places his head on the pillow. All this done, and the
Archangel
grins. He does so for his own entertainment."
William Hopkins
get his ass whipped.
We ARE allowed to choose any current hero, right? I'll give a break and not
even choose SA Superman.
Rob
<SNIP>
Lets see.
Superman- Faster than a speeding bullet
Goku- Faster than light
Superman- Able to physically lift massive objects
Goku- Able to Mentally lift massive objects
Superman- Can do eye beams.
Goku- Kamehameha, Kienzan, Genki Dama, etc.
Superman- Saves a woman falling off a bridge
Goku- Saves the universe
Superman- More powerful than speeding locomotive
Goku- More powerful than God
Let me know if I missed any.
Rob
pla...@ca.freei.net
<B1Jo5.8432$xy3.4...@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech.net>,
Goku- Cartoon
:op
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
pla...@ca.freei.net
<B1Jo5.8432$xy3.4...@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech.net>,
"Rob" <twist...@ameritech.net> wrote:
GregoryD
Rob <twist...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:B1Jo5.8432$xy3.4...@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech.net...
> Jeremy_Swanson wrote in message <39a33643.21780879@news>...
> <SNIP>
>
> Lets see.
> Superman- Faster than a speeding bullet
> Goku- Faster than light
>
> Superman- Able to physically lift massive objects
> Goku- Able to Mentally lift massive objects
PC Superman- Juggles planets for fun
>
> Superman- Can do eye beams.
> Goku- Kamehameha, Kienzan, Genki Dama, etc.
PC Superman - can melt anything with heat vision, and can shrug
off any energy blast
>
> Superman- Saves a woman falling off a bridge
> Goku- Saves the universe
PC Superman-Saves reality
>
> Superman- More powerful than speeding locomotive
> Goku- More powerful than God
PC Superman-Realizes Goku's God is a wuss, beats the piss out
of him then cleans his cape by flying through a black hole.
GregoryD
Clark Kent
Lord Rob wrote:
>Lets see.
>Superman- Faster than a speeding bullet
>Goku- Faster than light
No. He can teleport, but we don't know if he is "faster than light". Per
example, we know Goku can't break the Speed Force (or Time Barrier) in the
way Flash does.
>Superman- Able to physically lift massive objects
>Goku- Able to Mentally lift massive objects
Mentally? That has been the case of Piccolo, Ten Xin Han and Freezer, but
not Goku. On the other hand, Goku is very strong: not so much as Superman
(perhaps not even in his final Saiyajin IV form) but very strong.
One thing must be noted: on the DB Universe, it seems to be much easier
to blast the moon (although it was done as a comic relief... and many times,
in fact) or break a world apart than throwing away a car or lifting heavy
weights...
>Superman- Can do eye beams.
>Goku- Kamehameha, Kienzan, Genki Dama, etc.
Different names for minor blasts. Superman "eye beams" are, on the other
hand, heat vision... and it happens that Goku is specially vulnerable to
heat damage, as it can be seen many times: the Pirate Robot of DB, the
Namek volcanoes on DB-Z, the DB-GT heat dragon...
>Superman- Saves a woman falling off a bridge
>Goku- Saves the universe
Oh, yes, and Superman doesn't save the world, the galaxy and the universe
more times than Goku. Sure. Superman doesn't fight the likes of Doomsday
(who would trash Boo, any of the Boos, any time of the day), Mr. Mxyzptlk,
Darkseid, Starro, Amazo, Maxima, Mongul, Dev-Em... Superman hasn't been
prominently present in Crisis, Legends, Millenium, Invasion!, Zero Hour, War
of Gods, the Millenium Giants, Midsummer Nightmare, Final Night (and without
powers!)...
>Superman- More powerful than speeding locomotive
>Goku- More powerful than God
Which of them? Because most "gods" in the DB Universe are just aliens.
The same way they are in the DCU, on the other hand. And none of them have
most of the powers of GODS: eternal, can't die or suffer damage except from
other gods, existant beyond his believers...
On the other hand, both Goku and Superman would be vulnerable to Yama,
the Judge. But the main thing to have into account in this point is a
5-letter word: M-A-G-I-C. Superman is vulnerable to magic (quite the way
Goku is: Boo shapechanges him into a cookie without problems...). DB Gods
use little to no magic. DCU Gods use lots of magic.
And even so, in "War of Gods" Superman proved equal to the aztec god
Quetzalcoatl, and many gods have considered him their equal, even when he
doesn't think so.
>Let me know if I missed any.
Yes, you missed objectivity.
At your feet,
KalEl el Vigilante
Josh Dull
> Fight time: Superman vs Trunks, and the winner is???
Superman obviously. What chance does mere swimwear have agains the Man of
Steel?
Josh
William Hopkins
> Rob
How about good taste, longevity, real-world good works, genuine,
world-recognized culture, larger fan base, originality, and suspension of
disbelief?
Let me know if I missed any.
Will
Glenn E. Meyer
As far as speed, Pre-crisis Supes can move at speeds that span the distances
between
galaxies in an hour or so. While Goku can teleport, he never MOVED at
anything
like that speed.
No impact can phase Supes while many times, impacts have had an impact on
Goku.
Goku has much greater energy projecting powers and telepathy. Much greater
martial arts skills.
Basically, Supes can do a FTL attack and remove Goku's head.
Post-crisis Supes is a dead man.
Torankusu-kaiou and the Roaming Explosive Pusfart
"Jeremy_Swanson" <jeremy_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:39a33643.21780879@news...
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 17:48:09 -0500, "The Evil Mechanic From Hell in
> His Big Ass Ford" <sskak...@cei.bakazone.net> wrote:
>
> Damnit. We must just try and drag me out of the shadows. This fight is
> not fair here. Just posting it in this newsgroup anyway. You people
> refuse to admit Supereman has anytype of Superpower. Gokou if fighting
> in DAMNIT DAMN DAMN DAMN Im tired of trying to argue w/ people who
> wont even present both sides of the argument in this situation. Im not
> talking about Talen or Foxtail because they are sorta fair but no.
> They load Gokou up with all these powers and shit and say Post-crisis
> Superman would get his azz whooped....(why).... well he is just a
> pussy any way so it doesnt matter. Gokou is Da MANNNN thats what you
> guys sound like jeeez. Im going back to lurking to many godfrey
> danield vs threaeds.
<snip remainder of gibberish post>
You do realize, do you not, that nothing you said in this entire post made
any sense?
In any case, it's a simple matter of fact. Superman is powerful...is the
MOST powerful being probably...in *his* universe. BUT...
Superman simply does not have the power to go up against any of the major
fighters in DBZ and *not* get his big red S kicked.
Torankusu-kaiou and the Roaming Explosive Pusfart
Before we begin, I highly recommend that we cease crossposting on this
thread unless we want to begin a major war between ACS and AFD. I don't see
either group seeing eye-to-eye here anytime soon, so an "agree to disagree"
policy would be the better part of valor. If anyone wants to continue it,
they should choose one or the other newsgroup in which to argue the point
on, and stay there. AFD has enough of its own arguments and idiots to deal
with, and I'm sure you ACS guys do as well.
That being said...
"Clark Kent" <amu...@menta.com> wrote in message news:39a3b491@eldjouf...
>
> >Lets see.
> >Superman- Faster than a speeding bullet
> >Goku- Faster than light
>
> No. He can teleport, but we don't know if he is "faster than light".
Per
> example, we know Goku can't break the Speed Force (or Time Barrier) in the
> way Flash does.
Wrong. Almost every warrior in DBZ can move faster than either Superman or
the Flash. They don't just teleport...in fact, Goku is the *only* one who
can teleport, aside from Cell...
Most of the time, when a DBZ warrior seems to teleport, that is sheer speed.
They move so fast that they leave an afterimage of themselves in the place
where they were before. Goku has often moved over 100 feet from a
standing-still position before most people could blink. Z-senshi *routinely*
break the sound barrier during *takeoff*.
> >Superman- Able to physically lift massive objects
> >Goku- Able to Mentally lift massive objects
>
> Mentally? That has been the case of Piccolo, Ten Xin Han and Freezer,
but
> not Goku. On the other hand, Goku is very strong: not so much as Superman
> (perhaps not even in his final Saiyajin IV form) but very strong.
El wrongo. In SSJ3 form, Goku can do more damage with a simple punch than
the bomb that levelled Hiroshima did. As for the mental thing...it's a
matter of ki, and ALL of them can do it, it's simply more common to see them
physically move an object because it's easier to focus their ki through
their arms/etc. than to use sheer ki power alone with only the mind as the
focus.
> One thing must be noted: on the DB Universe, it seems to be much easier
> to blast the moon (although it was done as a comic relief... and many
times,
> in fact) or break a world apart than throwing away a car or lifting heavy
> weights...
Comic relief? Not quite, but anyway...you're right. It IS more common to see
destruction on a massive scale caused by the most basic attacks in
Dragonball. This is because, quite simply, the major players there ARE that
much more powerful than anyone in the DC universe. Now, the MARVEL universe
players may be a bit of a different story, but Superman simply isn't built
for the kind of warefare that takes place in Toriyama's little playground.
> >Superman- Can do eye beams.
> >Goku- Kamehameha, Kienzan, Genki Dama, etc.
>
> Different names for minor blasts. Superman "eye beams" are, on the
other
> hand, heat vision... and it happens that Goku is specially vulnerable to
> heat damage, as it can be seen many times: the Pirate Robot of DB, the
> Namek volcanoes on DB-Z, the DB-GT heat dragon...
...*minor* blasts? The Kamehameha is not a MINOR blast. It's one of the most
powerful techniques in Dragonball. The Kienzan can slice through a mountain
effortlessly. Genkidama is HARDLY a minor technique...it's such a MAJOR
technique that Goku only used it a total of four times throughout the
series. I'll give you the heat damage thing, but most of the times Goku has
sustained heat damage, he'd already been weakened, stunned by a hard blow,
etc. and wasn't able to sustain a ki shield to ward off extreme heat.
Jeremy B
>Superman- More powerful than speeding locomotive
>Goku- More powerful than God
You are aware that God (AKA "the Presence") is a DC character, right?
Ther's an interesting match-up.
Jeremy B
------
"Oh, sure, everyone talks about saving Hitler's brain, but put it in the body
of a Great White Shark, and suddenly, you've gone too far."
-- Prof. Hubert Farnsworth
William Hopkins
do we?
"Glenn E. Meyer" <gme...@express-news.net> wrote in message
news:39A49B12...@express-news.net...
fra...@my-deja.com
"Clark Kent" <amu...@menta.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:39a3b491@eldjouf...
> >Superman- Saves a woman falling off a bridge
> >Goku- Saves the universe
>
> Oh, yes, and Superman doesn't save the world, the galaxy and the
universe
> more times than Goku. Sure. Superman doesn't fight the likes of
Doomsday
> (who would trash Boo, any of the Boos, any time of the day), Mr.
Mxyzptlk,
> Darkseid, Starro, Amazo, Maxima, Mongul, Dev-Em... Superman hasn't
been
> prominently present in Crisis, Legends, Millenium, Invasion!, Zero
Hour,
War
> of Gods, the Millenium Giants, Midsummer Nightmare, Final Night (and
without
> powers!)...
don't forget JLA 6: with powers he had for 15 minutes or so he stopped
the
moon and wrestled an very powerful and very bad angel!!!
--
--
"in this world, there is RIGHT and there is WRONG...
...and that difference is not hard to make."
Frank-El
Chris Giles
Chris Giles
Chris Giles
Talen
<gme...@express-news.net> wrote:
>Pre-Crisis Supes is invulnerable to any energy impact except red sun blasts.
>As far as speed, Pre-crisis Supes can move at speeds that span the distances
>between
>galaxies in an hour or so. While Goku can teleport, he never MOVED at
>anything
>like that speed.
<sighs>
Goku can fly at 208,000 light years a second. That's not even at SSJ3.
At that rate of 208,000 light years a second, with a punch distance
of, say, a meter (and that's optimistic), Goku could throw
409,760,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 punches a second, each doing
sufficient damage to shatter a planet 3,728,636,930,451,200 kilometers
in radius into _DUST_. Which means if he threw every one of those
punches using a water-over-rock method, Goku could turn a planet
15,278,462,686,216,837,120,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kilometers IN
RADIUS into dust in ONE SECOND... for perspective, our SOLAR SYSTEM is
only about 3,000,000,000 kilometers in radius.
>No impact can phase Supes while many times, impacts have had an impact on
>Goku.
That's funny, since Supes has been beaten to the punch by Ambush Bug,
and also knocked off his feet by other Kryptonians of equal strength
and Doomsday. Superman can be hurt by someone as strong as he is - and
Goku is _much_ stronger. Superman was weakened by something as tame as
_a nuke_.
Goku's first Kamehameha was about on scale with a nuclear bomb, and he
was barely _TEN_.
>Goku has much greater energy projecting powers and telepathy. Much greater
>martial arts skills.
>
>Basically, Supes can do a FTL attack and remove Goku's head.
I think you're underestimating Goku's speed. Way so. You're also not
thinking in-character, which is kind of stupid anyway, since if we're
dealing with in-character thoughts, neither of the two would fight
anyway. ^^;
>Post-crisis Supes is a dead man.
I'd give Post-Crisis Superman a neat fight against, say, Radditz,
though. That'd be fun.
--
Talen
http://www.crosswinds.net/~talenkun/
"Get me my lightsaber. It's the one that says, "Bad Ass Mother
F*cker" on it."
- Mike Ralls, on Samuel L. Jackson in Phantom Menace
Talen
<clark...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Let me know if I missed any.
>> Rob
>
>
>How about good taste, longevity, real-world good works, genuine,
>world-recognized culture, larger fan base, originality, and suspension of
>disbelief?
I'm not sure I caught the exact meaning here, but is this by any
chance a post suggesting a more level-headed approach to these things?
Gah, who'd have THOUGHT it? <faints>
--
Talen
http://www.crosswinds.net/~talenkun/
<Ksennin> The most insanely accurate ASCII art ever created... the
kirby dance
Clark Kent
Lord Talen wrote:
>On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:48:43 -0500, "Glenn E. Meyer"
>Goku can fly at 208,000 light years a second. That's not even at SSJ3.
Where are you pulling that number of? That's never been said or seen on
the TV series or the comic book one. So, I dare to say that whatever your
source it's not accurate with how the character is portrayed in the canon
stories.
>At that rate of 208,000 light years a second, with a punch distance
>of, say, a meter (and that's optimistic), Goku could throw
>409,760,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 punches a second, each doing
Again, that's never been seen or said on any of the series.
(numbers, numbers and more numbers)
>>No impact can phase Supes while many times, impacts have had an
>> impact on Goku.
>
>That's funny,
Funny? It's true. For the pre-Crisis Superman, at least.
>since Supes has been beaten to the punch by Ambush Bug,
The Ambush Bug is an out-from-continuity character, introduced as comic
relief and a link with the real world. It's like Johnny DC, a
meta-character.
>and also knocked off his feet by other Kryptonians of equal strength
Of course, logic tells us that most people can be knocked off by other
people of equal strength. Songoku, Superman or Buggs Bunny.
>and Doomsday.
Oh, Doomsday will eat Songoku any time of the day: just take into account
that his power is the perfection of a characteristic in saiyans. They get
stronger when surviving near death: Doomsday get stronger whenever opposing
higher forces. So, the stronger you beat him, the stronger he is going to
become. You don't want to meet him after he adapts to a Genki Dama...
>Superman can be hurt by someone as strong as he is -
Of course, Goku too.
> and Goku is _much_ stronger.
No. Goku is a far better martial artist, but not stronger, as you can see
by the different weights he lifts and throws during the series. Goku must be
around Captain Atom or Martian Manhunter in the strength department. On the
other hand, Goku's proficience in Martial Arts DO put him on a Superman
level, and even higher when at SJ3 or 4.
> Superman was weakened by something as tame as _a nuke_.
Pre-Crisis? No. He used to travel through suns are so. Post-Crisis: I
agree. But despite Toriyama's team taste for mushrooms as a visual effect
for explossions, I've never taken them for H-Bombs.
>Goku's first Kamehameha was about on scale with a nuclear bomb, and
>he was barely _TEN_.
False. Goku's first KameHameHa barely damaged Bulma's car. It wasn't
until DB-Z (at Namek) that Goku's Kames became near that strength.
>I'd give Post-Crisis Superman a neat fight against, say, Radditz,
>though. That'd be fun.
I'd put him against Freezer (final), the Androids (all at a time) or Cell
(perfect). Boo would be cheating due to his magic origin.
Torankusu-kaiou and the Roaming Explosive Pusfart
"Clark Kent" <amu...@menta.com> wrote in message news:39a6726d@eldjouf...
> >Goku can fly at 208,000 light years a second. That's not even at SSJ3.
>
> Where are you pulling that number of? That's never been said or seen on
> the TV series or the comic book one. So, I dare to say that whatever your
> source it's not accurate with how the character is portrayed in the canon
> stories.
Word of advice: Don't argue numbers with Talen. He has done the math. If he
gives a number estimating the speed or power of any character in DBZ, odds
are it's accurate, or at least incredibly close.
Foxtail_
he
> gives a number estimating the speed or power of any character in DBZ, odds
> are it's accurate, or at least incredibly close.
Except when it comes to the projected numbers... I still don't agree with
him that Goten's max is 1,000,000x (times, nut just more) than Gohan's...
--
**
A river flows as time.
Never ending nor beginning - fading away into the abyss.
A source of life, a source of wonder.
A river of memories.
How do you ride the river?!?
**
Why do we kill ourselves slowly,
With indulgences of all kinds?
Is it because we love the things that make us sick,
Or is it because we haven't the courage to do it quickly?
**
Foxtail_
try...@home.com
Talen
>> Word of advice: Don't argue numbers with Talen. He has done the math. If
>he
>> gives a number estimating the speed or power of any character in DBZ, odds
>> are it's accurate, or at least incredibly close.
>
>Except when it comes to the projected numbers... I still don't agree with
>him that Goten's max is 1,000,000x (times, nut just more) than Gohan's...
It's in the higher trillions, actually...
--
Talen
http://www.crosswinds.net/~talenkun/
"John's on druuuugs."
- Matt Ramsay
Foxtail_
> >him that Goten's max is 1,000,000x (times, nut just more) than Gohan's...
I shall find a way to kill you...
Aaron
"Talen" <tal...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39a76e9b...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:18:19 GMT, "Foxtail_" <try...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >> Word of advice: Don't argue numbers with Talen. He has done the math.
If
> >he
> >> gives a number estimating the speed or power of any character in DBZ,
odds
> >> are it's accurate, or at least incredibly close.
> >
> >Except when it comes to the projected numbers... I still don't agree with
> >him that Goten's max is 1,000,000x (times, nut just more) than Gohan's...
>
> It's in the higher trillions, actually...
>
Talen
Explosive Pusfart" <redmo...@ohayo.konbanwa> wrote:
>
>"Clark Kent" <amu...@menta.com> wrote in message news:39a6726d@eldjouf...
>> >Goku can fly at 208,000 light years a second. That's not even at SSJ3.
>>
>> Where are you pulling that number of? That's never been said or seen on
>> the TV series or the comic book one. So, I dare to say that whatever your
>> source it's not accurate with how the character is portrayed in the canon
>> stories.
>
>Word of advice: Don't argue numbers with Talen. He has done the math. If he
>gives a number estimating the speed or power of any character in DBZ, odds
>are it's accurate, or at least incredibly close.
Well, that's hearwarming. ;p
--
Talen
http://www.crosswinds.net/~talenkun/
"I'm arrogant, I'm egotistical, I'm easily depressed, and I'm
incredibly unpleasant when I'm tired or hungry."
- Rick Hall highlighting his good points
Talen
wrote:
> Greetings, ladies and gentlemen:
> Lord Talen wrote:
Ooh, I'm a Lord... For that, I'll actually try to be polite... ;p
>>On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:48:43 -0500, "Glenn E. Meyer"
>(...)
>>Goku can fly at 208,000 light years a second. That's not even at SSJ3.
>
> Where are you pulling that number of? That's never been said or seen on
>the TV series or the comic book one. So, I dare to say that whatever your
>source it's not accurate with how the character is portrayed in the canon
>stories.
Actually, it has been.
Allow me to rant, if you will.
Muten Roushi blew up the moon at a power level of 139. He did not use
_all_ this power in the attack, as he was actually able to fight
_afterward_ and was sufficiently rested to continue fight a battle
with a Goku who'd had a nap to boot.
Radditz could move faster than light at a power level of 1,200. Gohan,
Yamucha, and Kururin could all move at roughly light speeds with power
levels of 1,000. And, incidentally, this is explicitly shown in the
manga several times.
Cell Jr blew up Kaousei with a ki blast attack.
Perfect Cell was powerful enough to easily cream a guy who could
easily cream Cell Jr.
Gohan was powerful enough to take on Perfect Cell and cream him just
as easily.
Now.
Earth has 81 times the mass of the moon. To destroy the earth would
therefore require a blast from someone with a power level of 11,259.
Kaiosamasei has ten times the gravity of earth with a circumference of
only 50 meters or so. Therefore, to blow it up, the blast would need
to be 10,808,640,000. Therefore, Cell would have had to have a power
level of about half that (as suicide blasts are roughly double one's
ultimate power output.
This puts SSJ2 Gohan at 22,136,094,720. Which means he could travel
22,136,094 times the speed of light, which is 70% of a light year per
second.
Goku, nearing the end of the series, was about 3,300,602,295,870,
without the need to go SSJ. At SSJ he would be 50* that, SSJ2 50^2,
and at SSJ3, 50^3.
That puts him at 104 light years a second while not SSJ, 5,233 light
years a second at SSJ, 261,653 at SSJ2, and if he had to go SSJ3 he'd
rack in at 13,082,676 light years a second.
>>At that rate of 208,000 light years a second, with a punch distance
>>of, say, a meter (and that's optimistic), Goku could throw
>>409,760,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 punches a second, each doing
>
> Again, that's never been seen or said on any of the series.
Three planets have been destroyed in DBZ, and the two cited are all
that I need to prove my point.
It has been said. I wouldn't make this assertion if I at least didn't
think it was true. And these are rough, lowest-possible estimates of
Goku's power. To get really insane, Goku would be almost
14,148,684,572,487,680 times stronger still.
> (numbers, numbers and more numbers)
>>>No impact can phase Supes while many times, impacts have had an
>>> impact on Goku.
>>
>>That's funny,
>
> Funny? It's true. For the pre-Crisis Superman, at least.
No, it's not. Pre-crisis supes could be knocked around by someone of
equal strength, as you yourself state. So, there _are_ impacts which
can phase Superman.
>>since Supes has been beaten to the punch by Ambush Bug,
>
> The Ambush Bug is an out-from-continuity character, introduced as comic
>relief and a link with the real world. It's like Johnny DC, a
>meta-character.
So? Because he's comic relief he's not to be considered at all? Does
this mean that Jinzouningen #19 wasn't a valid indicator of Vejita's
strength? _I_ found him funny as hell. What about Gurudo? Is he not a
valid estimate of Kururin and Gohan's strength, because that little
bugger was funny too. Or what about Chaou-zu, who was _hilarious_ when
he fought Kururin - does that invalidate the estimation of Kururin's
strength?
The problem is that you can't pick and choose with continuity. The DC
and Marvel continuities are holey as they come, and Pre-C Superman's
done some downright _stupid_ stuff, despite supposedly being a
supergenius of the highest order. If it happened, accept that it
happened.
However, Superman does not think and react at the same speeds Goku can
just _move_. Superman needs runups and has to deal with terminal
velocities and light barriers to exceed light and sound - Goku doesn't
and doesn't even notice.
Goku was dodging bullets after they'd been fired when he was barely
ten. He was also dodging not-quite-light-speed-but-a-significant-
portion-of-it laser beams when he was in his teens (against Piccolo,
Volume 16, for those who care).
The Kamehameha was fast enough to travel to the moon effectively
_instantaneously_. Goku didn't dodge many of them _after_ they'd been
fired, but he _did_ do so when he surpassed a power level of 1,000 -
heck, he did it against Nappa, who was barely centimeters away from
him.
>>and also knocked off his feet by other Kryptonians of equal strength
>
> Of course, logic tells us that most people can be knocked off by other
>people of equal strength. Songoku, Superman or Buggs Bunny.
Indeed. And Goku is exponents stronger.
>>and Doomsday.
>
> Oh, Doomsday will eat Songoku any time of the day: just take into account
>that his power is the perfection of a characteristic in saiyans. They get
>stronger when surviving near death: Doomsday get stronger whenever opposing
>higher forces. So, the stronger you beat him, the stronger he is going to
>become. You don't want to meet him after he adapts to a Genki Dama...
Ah, slight problem; I doubt that Doomsday could survive atomisation (I
may, of course, be wrong). And since the Genki Dama actually can make
matter _cease_ _existing_, I don't think Doomsday _could_ adapt.
>>Superman can be hurt by someone as strong as he is -
>
> Of course, Goku too.
Indeed. Such as Kid Buu or Uub.
>> and Goku is _much_ stronger.
>
> No. Goku is a far better martial artist, but not stronger, as you can see
>by the different weights he lifts and throws during the series.
Nope. Goku hefts Kitchin alloy above his head with one hand. The
stuff's denser than a neutron star and he still lugs it above his
head. Superman could move planets, yeah, but that doesn't matter much
when you consider that Goku can juggle black holes.
There are the forty-ton weights issues, but note that this was after a
nigh-on constant extended workout in vastly higher gravity than
Earth's (over the Kaiosei's normal 10*).
> Goku must be
>around Captain Atom or Martian Manhunter in the strength department. On the
>other hand, Goku's proficience in Martial Arts DO put him on a Superman
>level, and even higher when at SJ3 or 4.
Er... Super Saiyajin 4 never _actually_ happened. Dragonball GT
doesn't actually count, really.
>> Superman was weakened by something as tame as _a nuke_.
>
> Pre-Crisis? No. He used to travel through suns are so. Post-Crisis: I
>agree. But despite Toriyama's team taste for mushrooms as a visual effect
>for explossions, I've never taken them for H-Bombs.
Hm. Well, how many H-Bombs would it take to blow up the moon, my
friend? When the sun goes Nova, the force will only be enough to blast
the outer layers of rock off the Earth and melt the inside, _not_
enough to shatter it into chunks. Of course, ours is a relatively
_small_ sun, all things considered.
And, unless I'm misremembering, did Batman not whale on a weakened
Pre-Crisis Superman, a Superman that suffered through a nuclear bomb?
Or was that post-crisis?
>>Goku's first Kamehameha was about on scale with a nuclear bomb, and
>>he was barely _TEN_.
>
> False. Goku's first KameHameHa barely damaged Bulma's car. It wasn't
>until DB-Z (at Namek) that Goku's Kames became near that strength.
Hm? I do indeed stand corrected; I was thinking of Muten Roshi's,
which blew up Mount Frypan and the moon. And Goku's were as strong and
stronger, as Goku was notably stronger than Roshi by the time
Tenshinhan and Chauozu turned up.
>>I'd give Post-Crisis Superman a neat fight against, say, Radditz,
>>though. That'd be fun.
>
> I'd put him against Freezer (final), the Androids (all at a time) or Cell
>(perfect). Boo would be cheating due to his magic origin.
> At your feet,
> KalEl el Vigilante
Freeza could move at 53,000 times the speed of light _without_
transforming, and the Androids were moving at quarters of lightyears a
second, and you can see how powerful Cell was (the terminator of his
Kamehameha would have been larger than the Solar System itself). No
superman has a prayer against that. Radditz, however, was only a small
amount faster than light, and packed two drawcards, namely Oozaru and
martial arts skill. Neither of which Superman really has.
Aaron
explaining it. One thing though doesnt it all come down to who writes what?
Goku is layed out to be the supreme being of his universe as is Superman. Im
sure if they wanted to DC could of found someway to have Supes consume the
universe or something and become more powerful then anythiny ever seen
anywhere. The same could be said for DB and Goku. Everyone has their
weakness that could be exploited in a battle also. Every "invulnerable"
force in just about every fictional universe has been defeated at some point
for some reason. It all just depends on the limit of the imagination as to
what could happen.
"Talen" <tal...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39a7b119...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Len-L
would be about the red underwear again...
---
Len-L
kan...@davlin.net
Jeremy_Swanson
>>>of, say, a meter (and that's optimistic), Goku could throw
>>>409,760,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 punches a second, each doing
>Three planets have been destroyed in DBZ, and the two cited are all
>that I need to prove my point.
Yes and the point was. That you could bring a whole bunch of numbers
about a universe that you dont even live in. Therefore rendering your
argument moot. If Gokou was to fight in Supermans universe he would
not be able to move that fast. Superman would clobber him cause those
type of things just arent possible in a DC universe. Superman probably
wouldnt have to fight being as a minor character or one of his enimies
would easily take him out. Braniac would do very easy. Or even Mytz
can. Gokou cant hit what he can not touch. Leavin him Vulnerable to an
attack by the physics in that universe. The Martian Manhunter. But if
you wanna argue about Gokou using his Ki to get Martian Manhunter.
That wouldnt work either. Cause it is not fire or his good buddy GL
would come up with is power ring(the most powerful source of energy in
the univerese) and take Gokou out then. Arguing this point with me is
just gona cause you to loose. Now Superman in Gokou universe since you
are so willing to throw all the laws of physice out the window. Your
giving Superman unlimited power. Superman would through Gokou through
dimension after after dimension of time universe destroying everything
you guys hold dear. Superman would cave Gokous chest in even at SS3.
The eradicator the perfect war machine hell would take out Gokou. If
you still dont get what I am reaching I will tell you now. Gokou even
if he did beat Superman. Would have to answer for it. People would
just keep on coming at him and coming till him his family his land and
his pet dog where dead. If Superboy ever grew up. Lets just Say if
Gokou cant move then how can he protect himself The answer being he
cant. He cant even attack.
Jim Stanfield
> Kaiosamasei has ten times the gravity of earth with a circumference of
> only 50 meters or so. Therefore, to blow it up, the blast would need
> to be 10,808,640,000. Therefore, Cell would have had to have a power
> level of about half that (as suicide blasts are roughly double one's
> ultimate power output.
Strange.... I got 38,502,999,615 as the power needed to destroy
Kaiou-sama-sei, giving Cell about 19,751,499,808.
> Freeza could move at 53,000 times the speed of light _without_
> transforming
Don't you mean 530? If his stage one was 530,000, and c=1000pl...
--
Jim Stanfield
"One of these things is not like the others...
A Stapler, Mothra, and the Olympics.
SO...which one is it?"
-Yuji Horii,
Programmers' Room
Chrono Trigger
Jeremy_Swanson
>You really should learn some basic grammar and spelling. It would help out
>your argument.
Maybe I should and just maybe it would.
<snipitty snip>
>
>Oh, I see. Because Talen has clearly beaten you on the numbers, you're going
>to put Goku in a different "universe," somehow rendering him powerless.
>Physics is physics. When someone is right, you say, "Okay, I was wrong," not,
>"Well, in _this_ universe, he would lose because....uh...just because."
I did not say -------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that.
I was just merely stating that. If the laws of physics applied in
Gokou's univeres he would either A) Kill himself from goin much faster
then the speed of light and increasing his mass so much that he would
be infinetly squished. Cause in order to go at the speed of light get
this you gotta be energy. And since living things dont activley go
from matter to energy and back again makes it so Gokou cant travel at
the speed of light. And lets say Gokou could do it he would only be
able to do it once. Seeing as energy is often easily reflected and
refreacted by matter. Gokou could be swatted into many differeny
energy particles and he wouldnt exist anymore. or B) he would wind up
killing himself. Finally if you would have read my argument you would
have cleatly saw that I placed Superman in Gokou's Universe.
><snip because I don't read Superman>
Therefore you cant argue with me on some you dont know nothing about.
>>Gokou even
>>if he did beat Superman. Would have to answer for it. People would
>>just keep on coming at him and coming till him his family his land and
>>his pet dog where dead.
Did I say people by golly gee I really meant Super Hereoes and the
like.
>Um, maybe you didn't look at those numbers. GOKU CAN DESTROY PLANETS OVER A
>BILLION TIMES LARGER THAN OURS. You think a bunch of humans with a "Power
>Level" of 5 are going to beat Goku just because there are a lot of them? The
>whole Saiya-jin race specialized in genocide! Do you even watch the anime or
>read the manga? I'm starting to think not.
Nope I never watched the Episode where Gokou fought freezer or when
Gohan first went to school or when they Fought raditz then Vegeta and
Nappa. I never even saw the Episode where Trunks and Gohan are fight
in Mirai Trunks future aka the Trunks Special(Stupid people Im being
sarcastic)
>Oh, and Goku doesn't have a pet dog. And I doubt, since Gohan, Goten, and Pan
>all theoretically have the power to surpass Goku, that his family would be
>dead. And if you read the manga or watched the anime, you'd know that Chi-Chi
>is also a powerful martial artist - just not in the league of, say, Yamucha.
I know he doesnt have a Pet Dog Shit I was just fuckin wit you.
And to end this Argument about Gokou's Family Superman has fathered a
Dynasty of people. Whose Power have yet to be even heard of. But just
to give an example. Superman has a child with Wonderwoman who is the
master of Hypertime. What that means is he could probably just whipe
out that particular string of alternate time lines and Gokou would
cease or never would have existed.
Jim Stanfield
>>> Kaiosamasei has ten times the gravity of earth with a circumference of
>>> only 50 meters or so. Therefore, to blow it up, the blast would need
>>> to be 10,808,640,000. Therefore, Cell would have had to have a power
>>> level of about half that (as suicide blasts are roughly double one's
>>> ultimate power output.
>>
>> Strange.... I got 38,502,999,615 as the power needed to destroy
>> Kaiou-sama-sei, giving Cell about 19,751,499,808.
>
> Hm. -_-;;; This is one of the reasons I loathe that smartarse who
> pointed out the mass of the moon, I'm forgetting all the values I
> know.
Well, I called the Earth 83.1 times larger than the moon (PL of 11551 for
Earth, with 83.1 being used), and I think I used a different size for
Kaiou-sama-sei than you.
I don't trust anything _I_ come up with until I figure out the relative mass
of Earth compared to the moon for myself. In fact, that's what I'm going to
do now...
> Give me a sec to work it out precisely, but, as you can see, the
> amount is nothing short of shittingly large.
>
>>> Freeza could move at 53,000 times the speed of light _without_
>>> transforming
>>
>> Don't you mean 530? If his stage one was 530,000, and c=1000pl...
>
> <slaps himself in the forehead>
Heh.
--
Jim Stanfield
Jim Stanfield
> Well, I called the Earth 83.1 times larger than the moon (PL of 11551 for
> Earth, with 83.1 being used), and I think I used a different size for
> Kaiou-sama-sei than you.
>
> I don't trust anything _I_ come up with until I figure out the relative mass
> of Earth compared to the moon for myself. In fact, that's what I'm going to
> do now...
And I hope you don't mind me borrowing your basic ideas...
--
Jim Stanfield
Jim Stanfield
> Hm. -_-;;; This is one of the reasons I loathe that smartarse who
> pointed out the mass of the moon, I'm forgetting all the values I
> know.
The most accurate numbers I can find:
Earth 5,973,600,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg
Moon 72,500,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg
Which makes the Earth about 82.4 times more massive than the moon, and
approximately 11,454 being the power level needed to destroy Earth.
Now, all you'll need is an exact number for Kaiou-sama-sei's mass. And that
could be significantly harder, seeing as how it doesn't exist...
--
Jim Stanfield
Jim Stanfield
>> Hm. -_-;;; This is one of the reasons I loathe that smartarse who
>> pointed out the mass of the moon, I'm forgetting all the values I
>> know.
>
> The most accurate numbers I can find:
>
> Earth 5,973,600,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg
> Moon 72,500,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg
>
> Which makes the Earth about 82.4 times more massive than the moon, and
> approximately 11,454 being the power level needed to destroy Earth.
>
> Now, all you'll need is an exact number for Kaiou-sama-sei's mass. And that
> could be significantly harder, seeing as how it doesn't exist...
CORRECTION!!!
Oops, put in some wrong numbers!
Earth/Moon = 81.30059 (ą 0.00001)
--
Jim Stanfield
Talen
could you keep him? I mean, we sure as damn don't want him, and I'm
_SURE_ there are better-informed, more polite, more clear-headed
Superman fans on your illustrious NG (such as Goodsir Kent).
On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 02:29:07 GMT, jeremy_...@hotmail.com
(Jeremy_Swanson) wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 17:48:09 -0500, "The Evil Mechanic From Hell in
>His Big Ass Ford" <sskak...@cei.bakazone.net> wrote:
>
>Damnit. We must just try and drag me out of the shadows.
I would be more than happy if you forever remained in those shadows,
never to speak ever again. You have proven time and time again to be
irrational and foolish, and I don't really fancy hearing you rant.
>This fight is
>not fair here.
You're right. Superman hasn't got a hope against Trunks.
>Just posting it in this newsgroup anyway. You people
>refuse to admit Supereman has anytype of Superpower.
Hey, Superman replenished a planet and instilled old growth
rainforests. He's a powerful sod.
But Goku, since he's your hobby horse, or Trunks, who is the subject,
simply would not be phased by his powers nor give him the chance to do
anything about it, given they outclass him by exponents at speed.
> Gokou if fighting
>in DAMNIT DAMN DAMN DAMN
Hrm? ^^;
>Im tired of trying to argue w/ people who
>wont even present both sides of the argument in this situation.
I did so. Multiple times. You ignored every point against you.
> Im not
>talking about Talen or Foxtail because they are sorta fair but no.
Oh. Oh, right, so because I demonstrate knowledge of the series - that
Superman and other Kryptonians can and have been killed - I'm not
really fair?
I mean, come on, he's cool and cheesy and all that, but he's just not
in the same league. Goku's only as powerful as he is because Toriyama
made some stupid mistakes. That's the only way Dragonball Z is the top
dog in power.
>They load Gokou up with all these powers and shit and say Post-crisis
>Superman would get his azz whooped....(why)....
Yes, but the powers Fox and I mentioned are actual powers that Goku
has. You seem to think that Superman can simply blink and rearrange
the entirety of the universe to his whims. You still haven't told me
why he didn't do so against, say, Mxy-whatsit, or Ambush Bug, or
Doomsday himself.
>well he is just a
>pussy any way so it doesnt matter.
Er, hm? Superman could take on all of my favourite characters from
series not DBZ and kick each of them to the far reaches of the
universe pretty easily. Just a lineup;
Pantyhose Tarou vs Superman
Tarou is nowhere near fast enough to hit Supes, nor is he strong
enough to make it stick. In EITHER form.
Saffron vs Superman
Saffron isn't fast enough to hit supes, and while his most powerful
attacks may push Superman around (they blow up mountains) they're not
enough to put him down. Superman could sneeze to kill Saffron (ice
being his anathema)
Eiko Rando, Yuka Kikushima and Maya vs Superman
Ohhohhoh. Superman could take out all of Kagura, at once. In his
sleep. With a _sneeze_.
Sesshoumaru vs Superman
Sesshoumaru isn't fast enough and doesn't possess enough inherit magic
to hurt Superman, nor could he take the mildest of punches from
Superman.
Hikaru vs Superman
Okay, Superman would have trouble here because Hikaru _generates_
magic. But aside from this one here...
>Gokou is Da MANNNN thats what you
>guys sound like jeeez. Im going back to lurking to many godfrey
>danield vs threaeds.
... you do that, chap. And please, don't ever, ever, ever post again.
Please.
--
Talen
http://www.crosswinds.net/~talenkun/
"Your calculator cannot figure out the square root of three. The
square root of three is unfigureoutable."
- Mr. Finke
Talen
>> >Except when it comes to the projected numbers... I still don't agree with
>> >him that Goten's max is 1,000,000x (times, nut just more) than Gohan's...
>> It's in the higher trillions, actually...
>
>I shall find a way to kill you...
Aww, isn't that cute, he's trying to stab my eyes with a fork.
<plushie-cuddles Foxtail>
Talen
<j...@knowyourmac.com> wrote:
>on 8/26/00 7:44 AM, Talen <tal...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Kaiosamasei has ten times the gravity of earth with a circumference of
>> only 50 meters or so. Therefore, to blow it up, the blast would need
>> to be 10,808,640,000. Therefore, Cell would have had to have a power
>> level of about half that (as suicide blasts are roughly double one's
>> ultimate power output.
>
>Strange.... I got 38,502,999,615 as the power needed to destroy
>Kaiou-sama-sei, giving Cell about 19,751,499,808.
Hm. -_-;;; This is one of the reasons I loathe that smartarse who
pointed out the mass of the moon, I'm forgetting all the values I
know.
Give me a sec to work it out precisely, but, as you can see, the
amount is nothing short of shittingly large.
>> Freeza could move at 53,000 times the speed of light _without_
>> transforming
>
>Don't you mean 530? If his stage one was 530,000, and c=1000pl...
<slaps himself in the forehead>
--
Talen
http://www.crosswinds.net/~talenkun/
"Hornyman awaaaaaay!"
- Anthony Grosso
Foxtail_
> Aww, isn't that cute, he's trying to stab my eyes with a fork.
> <plushie-cuddles Foxtail>
I'm taller than you... now, if I could only get over this thing called
compassion - why must I feel bad about hurting things? *Grunt* Damn
conscience *Throws his _spork_ (It's snot a fork, or a spoon - it's a
spork!) to the ground* Just wait until I'm old enough to hire a hit man...
Talen
>Thats all very very interesting and thought provoking. I thank you for
>explaining it. One thing though doesnt it all come down to who writes what?
Oh, heck yes. Of note is the Doomsday vs Goku story in the tass.org
fanfic archives. Piccolo gets his butt kicked by Doomsday, as though
that's possible.
Or the MULTIPLE Superman vs Goku deals going on in fanfiction
universes... oh well.
>Goku is layed out to be the supreme being of his universe as is Superman.
Nope.
Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Bra, Pan, Vejita (at a few points, in fact), Kid
Buu and Uubu _all_ are at some point powerful enough to clean Goku's
clock. But Goku is simply the best known of the entire rogue's
gallery.
>Im
>sure if they wanted to DC could of found someway to have Supes consume the
>universe or something and become more powerful then anythiny ever seen
>anywhere.
Give him the infinity gauntlet and he might have a chance. ;p
>The same could be said for DB and Goku. Everyone has their
>weakness that could be exploited in a battle also. Every "invulnerable"
>force in just about every fictional universe has been defeated at some point
>for some reason. It all just depends on the limit of the imagination as to
>what could happen.
Oh, yes. Goku isn't, however, invulnerable or immortal. He's not
infinite in any way. But he is an INCREDIBLY large finite amount.
--
Talen
http://www.crosswinds.net/~talenkun/
"Give me a _positive_ sentence."
"Yes."
"...Give me a positive _complete_ sentence."
"Yes, please."
- Jonathan Nassar and Joseph Sutedja
Talen
Swanson's not indicative of your NG, not by a long shot, and I'm sure
as heck hoping SOMEONE there has a sense of humour enough to actually
see just how riffable this chap is...
On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 17:24:27 GMT, jeremy_...@hotmail.com
(Jeremy_Swanson) wrote:
>>>>At that rate of 208,000 light years a second, with a punch distance
>>>>of, say, a meter (and that's optimistic), Goku could throw
>>>>409,760,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 punches a second, each doing
>Never never been said.
I demonstrated how it was said. You ignored that. You are wrong.
Simple, isn't it?
>>Three planets have been destroyed in DBZ, and the two cited are all
>>that I need to prove my point.
>
>Yes and the point was.
I'll take that as a question;
The point was that Goku is simply far, far, far too powerful for any
DC character to even see him coming. Next!
>That you could bring a whole bunch of numbers
>about a universe that you dont even live in.
So you live in the DC Universe?! COOL! Can I have your autograph, Mr.
Ambush Bug?
>Therefore rendering your
>argument moot.
Actually, it highlights the argument in glorious detail. It points out
that there are far too few Superman fans who actually understand how
powerful Dragonball Z is.
>If Gokou was to fight in Supermans universe he would
>not be able to move that fast.
Who said they'd fight at a point of commonality? So they fight in
Superman's home turf? Since Superman, the Spectre and the Flash can
all exceed lightspeed, Goku could too, and probably pick up some nifty
powers to boot, such as the Flash's ability to transfer his momentum
to an object that he throws.
>Superman would clobber him cause those
>type of things just arent possible in a DC universe.
Supraluminal travel; (Flash, Superman) check.
Destroying planets; (Lobo, Anti-monitor) check.
So how aren't they possible in the DC Universe?
>Superman probably
>wouldnt have to fight being as a minor character or one of his enimies
>would easily take him out.
Actually, Goku could deal with the entire DCU. Period. Even the
anti-monitor, who couldn't react at much more than light-speed.
<snip some drivel>
Cite me some examples where any of these characters can react and
avoid a supraluminal particle and I'll believe they have a prayer
against Radditz.
>GL
>would come up with is power ring(the most powerful source of energy in
>the univerese) and take Gokou out then.
Ah, the Green Lantern.
Yes, in theory, Kyle Raynor could take out Goku.
No, in practice, he could not. Kyle cannot react at several million
times the speed of light. Case closed.
>Arguing this point with me is
>just gona cause you to loose.
Hey, arguing the point with you is _not_ gunna make me sexually
promiscuous.
> Now Superman in Gokou universe since you
>are so willing to throw all the laws of physice out the window.
Okay! Laws of physics at FULL!
Superman dies the instant he appears from advanced skin cancer as his
power is related directly to solar radiation he has absorbed into his
body, which would irradiate his body.
Superman could not fly, fight, or move at any speed if he were to
comply to the laws of physics. If all supernatural powers were
removed, Goku could still kick Supe's ass because he outdoes him by
vast amounts at raw martial arts skill (such as, say, Miyamato Musashi
vs Sampson).
>Your
>giving Superman unlimited power.
By making him comply to physics? Er, no it ain't.
>Superman would through Gokou through
>dimension after after dimension of time universe destroying everything
>you guys hold dear.
Which is impossible according to the conceded laws of physics. You're
confusing me here - do you want Goku to have to obey the laws of
physics while Superman doesn't have to? Okay then, Superman has to be
a normal human.
What, it's a fair fight! ^_^
>Superman would cave Gokous chest in even at SS3.
SS_J_3, dub monkey.
>The eradicator the perfect war machine hell would take out Gokou.
Can't hit what you can't touch, as you said...
>If
>you still dont get what I am reaching I will tell you now. Gokou even
>if he did beat Superman. Would have to answer for it.
If Goku ever did kill Superman, given Goku's penchant for overkill,
the act of killing Big Red S would almost certainly annihilate the
majority of the solar system in which they were fighting. And anyone
else thrown against Goku wouldn't be nearly as tough as Superman.
>People would
>just keep on coming at him and coming till him his family his land and
>his pet dog where dead.
1. Goku has no pet dog
2. The combined power of six billion human beings on earth isn't
enough to make Rikum blink, and were every single one of those beings
a superbeing of Saffron's level, they would then only produce enough
power to knock Android #19 off his feet.
3. Goku has no land.
4. Goku's family could kill everything in the DC universe to boot.
5. Chichi killed a massive dinosaur by throwing her helmet away.
>If Superboy ever grew up.
He'd be creamed too. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
>Lets just Say if
>Gokou cant move then how can he protect himself The answer being he
>cant. He cant even attack.
Oh! It's a "Let's see how we can disable the people" fight thread!
OOOOOKAY.
Then Superman vs Hikaru.
Or Superman vs Dashu
Or Superman vs Kid Buu
Or Superman vs G'Nolga
Or Superman vs Daou
Go on.
Jeremy_Swanson
wrote:
>alt.comics.superman - please, endure this if you will. I'm sure that
>Swanson's not indicative of your NG, not by a long shot, and I'm sure
>as heck hoping SOMEONE there has a sense of humour enough to actually
>see just how riffable this chap is...
>
>On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 17:24:27 GMT, jeremy_...@hotmail.com
>(Jeremy_Swanson) wrote:
>
>>>>>At that rate of 208,000 light years a second, with a punch distance
>>>>>of, say, a meter (and that's optimistic), Goku could throw
>>>>>409,760,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 punches a second, each doing
>>Never never been said.
>
>I demonstrated how it was said. You ignored that. You are wrong.
>Simple, isn't it?
>
>>>Three planets have been destroyed in DBZ, and the two cited are all
>>>that I need to prove my point.
>>
>>Yes and the point was.
>
>I'll take that as a question;
It wasnt.
>The point was that Goku is simply far, far, far too powerful for any
>DC character to even see him coming. Next!
>
>>That you could bring a whole bunch of numbers
>>about a universe that you dont even live in.
>
>So you live in the DC Universe?! COOL! Can I have your autograph, Mr.
>Ambush Bug?
No. I dont. I know this because your actually saying this type of
dribble and you believe it.
>>Therefore rendering your
>>argument moot.
>
>Actually, it highlights the argument in glorious detail. It points out
>that there are far too few Superman fans who actually understand how
>powerful Dragonball Z is.
>
>>If Gokou was to fight in Supermans universe he would
>>not be able to move that fast.
>
>Who said they'd fight at a point of commonality? So they fight in
>Superman's home turf? Since Superman, the Spectre and the Flash can
>all exceed lightspeed, Goku could too, and probably pick up some nifty
>powers to boot, such as the Flash's ability to transfer his momentum
>to an object that he throws.
Yes the flash can exceed Light speed, as you would see he did in Chain
Reaction.
>>Superman would clobber him cause those
>>type of things just arent possible in a DC universe.
>
>Supraluminal travel; (Flash, Superman) check.
>Destroying planets; (Lobo, Anti-monitor) check.
You right your right.
>So how aren't they possible in the DC Universe?
>
>>Superman probably
>>wouldnt have to fight being as a minor character or one of his enimies
>>would easily take him out.
>
>Actually, Goku could deal with the entire DCU. Period. Even the
>anti-monitor, who couldn't react at much more than light-speed.
><snip some drivel>
This drivel you was talking about. Could it be where i said the
Martian Manhunter could take Gokou out easily. Chosing to ignore the
truth isnt good.
>Cite me some examples where any of these characters can react and
>avoid a supraluminal particle and I'll believe they have a prayer
>against Radditz.
>
>>GL
>>would come up with is power ring(the most powerful source of energy in
>>the univerese and take Gokou out then.
>
>Ah, the Green Lantern.
>
>Yes, in theory, Kyle Raynor could take out Goku.
>
>No, in practice, he could not. Kyle cannot react at several million
>times the speed of light. Case closed.
Yes he could all he would have to do is will something that could
clobber the snot out of Gokou. That the only thing he is limited by is
will power.
>>Arguing this point with me is
>>just gona cause you to loose.
>
>Hey, arguing the point with you is _not_ gunna make me sexually
>promiscuous.
I really hope it wouldnt. Seeing as im not trying to.
>> Now Superman in Gokou universe since you
>>are so willing to throw all the laws of physice out the window.
>
>Okay! Laws of physics at FULL!
>
>Superman dies the instant he appears from advanced skin cancer as his
>power is related directly to solar radiation he has absorbed into his
>body, which would irradiate his body.
No no. If that was true than plants would die also. Seeing as the use
photosynthesis to maintain homeostasis.
>Superman could not fly, fight, or move at any speed if he were to
>comply to the laws of physics. If all supernatural powers were
>removed, Goku could still kick Supe's ass because he outdoes him by
>vast amounts at raw martial arts skill (such as, say, Miyamato Musashi
>vs Sampson).
Damn, I was talking about Gokou in Superman Universe obeying the DC
rules of physics anyway.
>>Your
>>giving Superman unlimited power.
>
>By making him comply to physics? Er, no it ain't.
No, I was just saying you're giving him unlimited powers by putting
him in a univerese where the laws of physics are so loose.
>>Superman would through Gokou through
>>dimension after after dimension of time universe destroying everything
>>you guys hold dear.
<SNIPPER-SNIP>
>>Superman would cave Gokous chest in even at SS3.
>
>SS_J_3, dub monkey.
Does it really matter
You obviously knew what i meant so there really is no point. I speak
the english language and will adapt foreign to fit it. If you would of
read a recent post you would have saw the Super saiy-jinn translated
to english is Super Saiyan
>>The eradicator the perfect war machine hell would take out Gokou.
>
>Can't hit what you can't touch, as you said...
But you totally ingnored my argument on the Martian Manhunter now
Didnt you? Gokou would die of a telepathic attack if he couldnt hit
Martian Manhunter.
>>If
>>you still dont get what I am reaching I will tell you now. Gokou even
>>if he did beat Superman. Would have to answer for it.
i.e Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern
>If Goku ever did kill Superman, given Goku's penchant for overkill,
>the act of killing Big Red S would almost certainly annihilate the
>majority of the solar system in which they were fighting. And anyone
>else thrown against Goku wouldn't be nearly as tough as Superman.
Gokou's penchant for overkill. HAhaHAahAHaHaHAHAHAHAhahahaHAHA!
>>People would
>>just keep on coming at him and coming till him his family his land and
>>his pet dog where dead.
>
>1. Goku has no pet dog
Maybe I was joking about this.?
>2. The combined power of six billion human beings on earth isn't
>enough to make Rikum blink, and were every single one of those beings
>a superbeing of Saffron's level, they would then only produce enough
>power to knock Android #19 off his feet.
Who said there was just Six billion?
>3. Goku has no land.
>4. Goku's family could kill everything in the DC universe to boot.
>5. Chichi killed a massive dinosaur by throwing her helmet away.
A dinosaur. She really tough.
If Superboy ever grew up.
ie Black Zero
Lets just Say if
Gokou cant move then how can he protect himself The answer being he
cant. He cant even attack.
>
>Oh! It's a "Let's see how we can disable the people" fight thread!
>OOOOOKAY.
Still part of Fighting. If you disable your opponet and he cant fight
no more you win.
.
thepowerofjurai
from what i know about the dbzu and the dcu i would put my cards on goku. i
think that goku is simply to powerful for superman to handle. i believe
that the problem here lies in supermans 3rd and 4th winds. do you remember
supes vs. doomsday??? in the death issue supes taped into his 3rd wind
while fighting doomsday. this is what inabled him to star hurting him ie
breaking bones and the like. well once the third wid had expired and supes
went into his 4th wind the amount of energy he produced was nothing short
of a class A supernova in the form of a punch. doomsdays thick melicular
structure absorbed about 100% of the hit while the shock way that came from
the sound of the hit litterly shattered all the glass in a 3-5 miles radius
of the impact. NOW MY POINT IS that while superman was able to stop a
monster like doomsday he use his last wind for that. goku would beat supes
ass until then!! after that tough goku would have a nice little suprise in
the form of "the devistator" i believe that this would pretty uch clean
goku clock, BUT at the same time superman would lie there temporaly dead
again until somebody put his ass out in the sun for a couple weeks or so.
in that time right after "the devistator" goku (in super sayain form) would
not be totaly beaten and all that would remain would be for him to recover
become stronger what ever he would have to do and then simply clean up and
finish the job. that my thoughts on this. one last thing thought off
the subject thought from the dcu would be that goku would not stand a
chance against time rider. no one would dbzu or dcu. none of them can
influence the passage of time and for the ones that can attemped it ( the
small stuff ) time rider would have no trouble navagating it get my
drift!! >:c)
sorry for the spelling i have a problem with that >:c)
thepowerofjurai
"he must be trouble for the ladies"
-- yosho--
Chris Holloway
the planets in the DC universe? or just the sun. could SUPERMAN destroy a
planet?
-Vegetto
"Jeremy_Swanson" <jeremy_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:39a989c2.16014104@news...
Talen
><snip until first reply>
>
>I notice that you left the better part of Talen's argument unanswered.
'tis Swanson's modus operandi. Were he actually offensive, I'd
consider him a troll.
>>><snip some drivel>
>>This drivel you was talking about. Could it be where i said the
>>Martian Manhunter could take Gokou out easily. Chosing to ignore the
>>truth isnt good.
>
>Hahahahahaha! This from the person who replies to about 15% of what Talen
>says!
Add to that that the Martian Manhunter is _also_ outclassed. I skipped
to something that was hypothetically feasible.
>>>No, in practice, he could not. Kyle cannot react at several million
>>>times the speed of light. Case closed.
>>Yes he could all he would have to do is will something that could
>>clobber the snot out of Gokou. That the only thing he is limited by is
>>will power.
>
>Now I'm assuming that Green Lantern is just a normal human with a ring that can
>create objects from thin air.
Sort of. The Ring can make his will come to pass, more or less. It's
not _quite_ god-like (in that it's not permanently powered up, and has
to recharge) but it's nonetheless one of the most powerful things - at
least, in theory.
So far, there's yet to be a Green Lantern who doesn't wind up going
nuts. ;p
>If he has any innate super powers, please
>correct me.
Nope. Kyle Raynor has nothing. Hal Jordan's the Spectre (now), but he
wasn't when he was the Green Lantern.
>If not, then I think Goku would be able to kill GL with one punch
>while he was trying to raise his ring. Even if he did manage to create
>something, as you said, it is limited by will. Because of how strong Goku is,
>I think that it would take far more will than he has. Correct me if I'm wrong,
>because I'm on shaky ground as far as specific characters are concerned.
<snorts> The main problem is that BATMAN demoralises Kyle. Given the
stupendous power Goku demonstrates, a mental wimp like Kyle would
likely give up.
What's more, he cannot act or react fast enough to attack Goku, nor
has he demonstrated the mental flexibility to do so.
><more snips, because I think Talen would rather answer>
At least, I will, in theory. I can't be bothered putting too much
effort forth, and my NG response time has been sluggish as of late...
>>>2. The combined power of six billion human beings on earth isn't
>>>enough to make Rikum blink, and were every single one of those beings
>>>a superbeing of Saffron's level, they would then only produce enough
>>>power to knock Android #19 off his feet.
>>Who said there was just Six billion?
>
>The U.S. Census? Unless, of course, the DC Universe somehow has a larger Earth
>and therefore more life.
It _used_ to have _infinite_ Earths. Of course, an infinite number of
these (an infinitely small fraction, in fact) had Supermen on them.
And every last one of them was killed by the Anti-Monitor.
Another fact that is being conviently ignored here.
>>>5. Chichi killed a massive dinosaur by throwing her helmet away.
>>A dinosaur. She really tough.
>
>You're the one who's saying that Goku's family would be killed.
I think he's saying she's still a pansy. What he doesn't quite realise
is that Chichi takes hits from Goku, and is still alive. I'd say she's
got endurance enough to deal with any issues the DCU throws at her
after Goku wipes out the major players. ;p
>Is anyone seeing my point? I can almost completely pick apart this post,
>without knowing a thing about the DC Universe. That's sad.
Indeed. But as you can see, Swanson's a moron.
>Oh, by the way, Clark Kent: I'd really like to see your response to what Talen
>said. I'm not being sarcastic.
As would I. It's refreshing to encounter someone willing to present
actual facts - and demonstrate aforethought and actual knowledge - of
the DCU and even preliminary knowledge of the DBZU. Which is part of
why I have crossposted this (If, of course, there are people of ACS
who wish for me to _not_ do so, I will avoid as such in future).
In other words...
<big puppydog eyes> PLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE RESPOND, CLARK!!!
--
Talen
http://www.crosswinds.net/~talenkun/
"I only want attention. If you give it to me, you're just
encouraging me."
- Mr. Arguello
Talen
(Jeremy_Swanson) wrote:
>On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:18:15 GMT, tal...@optusnet.com.au (Talen)
>wrote:
>>>Yes and the point was.
>>
>>I'll take that as a question;
>It wasnt.
Then you're claiming to know my intent and demonstrate no knowledge
about it _at all_?
>>The point was that Goku is simply far, far, far too powerful for any
>>DC character to even see him coming. Next!
>>
>>>That you could bring a whole bunch of numbers
>>>about a universe that you dont even live in.
>>
>>So you live in the DC Universe?! COOL! Can I have your autograph, Mr.
>>Ambush Bug?
>No. I dont. I know this because your actually saying this type of
>dribble and you believe it.
I'm taking the piss out of you, you fool. -_-
>>>If Gokou was to fight in Supermans universe he would
>>>not be able to move that fast.
>>
>>Who said they'd fight at a point of commonality? So they fight in
>>Superman's home turf? Since Superman, the Spectre and the Flash can
>>all exceed lightspeed, Goku could too, and probably pick up some nifty
>>powers to boot, such as the Flash's ability to transfer his momentum
>>to an object that he throws.
>Yes the flash can exceed Light speed, as you would see he did in Chain
>Reaction.
Thank you, which is what I stated. Since the light barrier is
nonexistant in the DCU (or at least not the same as in the Real World,
where by travelling at light speed you would destroy the entire
universe and recommence the big bang), I don't see how Goku could not
continue to move at his own speeds. I also don't see how the physics
of the DCU are relevant because the fight would not occur in the DCU
_or_ DBZU.
>>>Superman would clobber him cause those
>>>type of things just arent possible in a DC universe.
>>
>>Supraluminal travel; (Flash, Superman) check.
>>Destroying planets; (Lobo, Anti-monitor) check.
>You right your right.
Goku does both. You said they're not possible in the DC Universe.
>>>Superman probably
>>>wouldnt have to fight being as a minor character or one of his enimies
>>>would easily take him out.
>>
>>Actually, Goku could deal with the entire DCU. Period. Even the
>>anti-monitor, who couldn't react at much more than light-speed.
>
>><snip some drivel>
>This drivel you was talking about. Could it be where i said the
>Martian Manhunter could take Gokou out easily. Chosing to ignore the
>truth isnt good.
... you only responded to maybe four of the points I've made. You're
ignoring the truth, too.
And if you want me to address it, then, fine. The Martian Manhunter
would not be able to act or react fast enough to deal with Goku who
could annihilate him. Nor could he deal with Goku teleporting himself
and the Manhunter to a different place altogether then nuking the
planet and teleporting home. The Manhunter is not strong enough to
hurt Goku, nor is he fast enough to hit Goku. Goku's ki can generate
heat in excess of _stars_ - Fire does not become an issue at those
kinds of heat.
>>Cite me some examples where any of these characters can react and
>>avoid a supraluminal particle and I'll believe they have a prayer
>>against Radditz.
>>
>>>GL
>>>would come up with is power ring(the most powerful source of energy in
>>>the univerese and take Gokou out then.
>>
>>Ah, the Green Lantern.
>>
>>Yes, in theory, Kyle Raynor could take out Goku.
>>
>>No, in practice, he could not. Kyle cannot react at several million
>>times the speed of light. Case closed.
>Yes he could all he would have to do is will something that could
>clobber the snot out of Gokou. That the only thing he is limited by is
>will power.
And reaction time. And his physical endurance. Both of which _suck_.
>>>Arguing this point with me is
>>>just gona cause you to loose.
>>
>>Hey, arguing the point with you is _not_ gunna make me sexually
>>promiscuous.
>I really hope it wouldnt. Seeing as im not trying to.
This is why you have to learn to spell.
>>> Now Superman in Gokou universe since you
>>>are so willing to throw all the laws of physice out the window.
>>
>>Okay! Laws of physics at FULL!
>>
>>Superman dies the instant he appears from advanced skin cancer as his
>>power is related directly to solar radiation he has absorbed into his
>>body, which would irradiate his body.
>No no. If that was true than plants would die also. Seeing as the use
>photosynthesis to maintain homeostasis.
No they don't, they maintain homeostasis by dint of using the light to
cause the REACTION of photosynthesis.
Superman _stores_ energy. He's a solar BATTERY.
>>Superman could not fly, fight, or move at any speed if he were to
>>comply to the laws of physics. If all supernatural powers were
>>removed, Goku could still kick Supe's ass because he outdoes him by
>>vast amounts at raw martial arts skill (such as, say, Miyamato Musashi
>>vs Sampson).
>Damn, I was talking about Gokou in Superman Universe obeying the DC
>rules of physics anyway.
Oh, right. So Superman has to obey the DBZU rules of physics in a
fight?
Besides, do you even know who Sampson and Musashi _WERE_?
>>>Your
>>>giving Superman unlimited power.
>>
>>By making him comply to physics? Er, no it ain't.
>No, I was just saying you're giving him unlimited powers by putting
>him in a univerese where the laws of physics are so loose.
No I'm not, since he's demonstrated he _does_ have limits. Goku has
limits too. If Superman could avoid the sound barrier and light
barrier like Goku does, he wouldn't move any faster, he just wouldn't
need the same runups to reach them. Goku is a finite value, Superman
is a finite value, but Goku is vastly higher.
>>>Superman would through Gokou through
>>>dimension after after dimension of time universe destroying everything
>>>you guys hold dear.
>
><SNIPPER-SNIP>
Oops, snipping out more stuff? Ignoring the truth?
>>>Superman would cave Gokous chest in even at SS3.
>>
>>SS_J_3, dub monkey.
>Does it really matter
Yep. It indicates how little you know about Goku, since the dub
DOESN'T mention Goku's supraluminal pace whereas the manga _does_.
>You obviously knew what i meant so there really is no point.
I know what you mean because I can interpret gibberish. It's a gift
from babysitting. I've heard more coherent discussion from kids not
yet in school.
>I speak
>the english language and will adapt foreign to fit it.
Oh, neat. You do know the entirety of the English language _is_
composed purely of "Foreign"?
>If you would of
>read a recent post you would have saw the Super saiy-jinn translated
>to english is Super Saiyan
Wow, thanks, I never knew that.
>>>The eradicator the perfect war machine hell would take out Gokou.
>>
>>Can't hit what you can't touch, as you said...
>But you totally ingnored my argument on the Martian Manhunter now
>Didnt you? Gokou would die of a telepathic attack if he couldnt hit
>Martian Manhunter.
O_o You totally ignored my discussion on physics and bunged out two
big words like they'd win the argument. I snipped the Martian
Manhunter because it was nothing short of an absolute laughingstock of
a fight. The Manhunter is outclassed by Superman, and Goku outclasses
Superman.
Regardless, Goku _can_ take out the Manhunter. See above.
>>>If
>>>you still dont get what I am reaching I will tell you now. Gokou even
>>>if he did beat Superman. Would have to answer for it.
>i.e Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern
Both of whom would lose in insants.
>>If Goku ever did kill Superman, given Goku's penchant for overkill,
>>the act of killing Big Red S would almost certainly annihilate the
>>majority of the solar system in which they were fighting. And anyone
>>else thrown against Goku wouldn't be nearly as tough as Superman.
>Gokou's penchant for overkill. HAhaHAahAHaHaHAHAHAHAhahahaHAHA!
Lessee... backwash from Namek... destroyed Namek. Backwash from Cell
Game? Ripped up the countryside. Backwash from Buu battle? Almost
destroyed a planet far, far larger and stronger than Earth.
Have you even _watched_ DBZ?
>>>People would
>>>just keep on coming at him and coming till him his family his land and
>>>his pet dog where dead.
>>
>>1. Goku has no pet dog
>Maybe I was joking about this.?
Ah. I'm sorry, the rest of your post contains so much nonsense it's
hard to interpret just when you believe what you're saying.
>>2. The combined power of six billion human beings on earth isn't
>>enough to make Rikum blink, and were every single one of those beings
>>a superbeing of Saffron's level, they would then only produce enough
>>power to knock Android #19 off his feet.
>Who said there was just Six billion?
The Gallup poll.
>>3. Goku has no land.
>>4. Goku's family could kill everything in the DC universe to boot.
>>5. Chichi killed a massive dinosaur by throwing her helmet away.
>A dinosaur. She really tough.
Yep.
>If Superboy ever grew up.
He'd lose to Goku. Hell, he'd lose to Namek-era Gohan.
>ie Black Zero
>Lets just Say if
>Gokou cant move then how can he protect himself The answer being he
>cant. He cant even attack.
Oh, right. Well, if Superman can't move, how can he fight? He can't
even attack.
What the fuck's that got to do with anything though? Superman couldn't
hurt Goku, Goku could waste him in an instant and finish lunch before
the ash hit the ground. It's a non-battle.
>>Oh! It's a "Let's see how we can disable the people" fight thread!
>>OOOOOKAY.
>Still part of Fighting. If you disable your opponet and he cant fight
>no more you win.
Right. That would indicate the person concerned can actually _hit_
Goku. And nobody - and I mean _nobody_ in the DCU can.
The guy dodges lasers after they're fired like it's not even
happening.
--
Talen
http://www.crosswinds.net/~talenkun/
Jeremy B
<chol...@houston.rr.com> writes:
>why can't goku just deeeeee-stroy the planet, or multipule planets, or all
>the planets in the DC universe? or just the sun.
Isn't Goku supposed to be a good guy? Why would one of the good guys
destroy a planet?
> could SUPERMAN destroy a
>planet?
Yeah. I once read a story in which twelve Daxamites (aliens with powers
identical to Superman's) wipe out a planet in a few minutes. Superman
would take longer, but he could do it. The fact that he doesn't do it
is what makes him a hero.
Jeremy B
------
"Everyone's always in favour of saving Hitler's brain, but when you put it in
the body of a great white shark, ohh-ohh-ohh, suddenly you've gone too far!"
-- Prof. Hubert Farnsworth
Jeremy_Swanson
will... (if i could only find the right words) its gonna be good.
Well the reason. I won't be posting till saturday is cause I have
school, and I realy need to concentrate on that. So be prepared
saturday. So be prepared for it. Ill have an better argument.
Who was that other guy who kept calling me names. That was really
rather childish. It's bad if a teenager is saying this to perhaps an
older person?!?! I dont know well till we meet again(on saturday)
au revoir.
Kwizatz Haderach
Jeremy_Swanson wrote:
>
> >>>At that rate of 208,000 light years a second, with a punch distance
> >>>of, say, a meter (and that's optimistic), Goku could throw
> >>>409,760,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 punches a second, each doing
> Never never been said.
> >Three planets have been destroyed in DBZ, and the two cited are all
> >that I need to prove my point.
>
> Yes and the point was. That you could bring a whole bunch of numbers
> about a universe that you dont even live in. Therefore rendering your
> argument moot. If Gokou was to fight in Supermans universe he would
> not be able to move that fast. Superman would clobber him cause those
> type of things just arent possible in a DC universe. Superman probably
> wouldnt have to fight being as a minor character or one of his enimies
> would easily take him out. Braniac would do very easy. Or even Mytz
> can. Gokou cant hit what he can not touch. Leavin him Vulnerable to an
> attack by the physics in that universe. The Martian Manhunter. But if
> you wanna argue about Gokou using his Ki to get Martian Manhunter.
> That wouldnt work either. Cause it is not fire or his good buddy GL
> would come up with is power ring(the most powerful source of energy in
> the univerese) and take Gokou out then. Arguing this point with me is
> just gona cause you to loose. Now Superman in Gokou universe since you
> are so willing to throw all the laws of physice out the window. Your
> giving Superman unlimited power. Superman would through Gokou through
> dimension after after dimension of time universe destroying everything
> you guys hold dear. Superman would cave Gokous chest in even at SS3.
> The eradicator the perfect war machine hell would take out Gokou. If
> you still dont get what I am reaching I will tell you now. Gokou even
> if he did beat Superman. Would have to answer for it. People would
> just keep on coming at him and coming till him his family his land and
> his pet dog where dead. If Superboy ever grew up. Lets just Say if
> Gokou cant move then how can he protect himself The answer being he
> cant. He cant even attack.
--
"Truth suffers from too much analysis"
-Ancient Fremen Saying
Jeremy_Swanson
Just a lil reminder this about this weekend ;-)
Clark Kent
Lord Talen wrote:
>On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:19:29 +0200, "Clark Kent" <amu...@menta.com>
>wrote:
>Ooh, I'm a Lord... For that, I'll actually try to be polite... ;p
^___^
(Asking for a demonstration of the spped & power numbers origin)
>Actually, it has been.
>
>Allow me to rant, if you will.
>
>Muten Roushi blew up the moon at a power level of 139. He did not use
>_all_ this power in the attack, as he was actually able to fight
>_afterward_ and was sufficiently rested to continue fight a battle
>with a Goku who'd had a nap to boot.
As the knowleadgeable of the series you have demonstrated to be: don't
you see anything strange in that a simple 139 level blast destroyed the
moon? Related to this, an example: do we agree that Piccolo Jr. was stronger
than Muten at the point of the Tournament where Piccolo fought Goku? If so,
have you noticed that Piccolo's mightiest attack (I don't know the name of
the Bomb he used as a final
Side note: my opinion is that the "moon destruction" was meant to be a
joke. Many times after that the moon was on DB (and no, I don't mean the
illusory moon that "awakened" Gohan ^_^). Example: if I remember well,
during the second fire of the Ox King Castle.
>Radditz could move faster than light at a power level of 1,200. Gohan,
>Yamucha, and Kururin could all move at roughly light speeds with power
>levels of 1,000. And, incidentally, this is explicitly shown in the
>manga several times.
We must agree in that we disagree, because I don't see it that way. I
suppose you don't mean the "dissappear here-appear there" moves that are so
common on DB. I'll re-read the mangas but I've never read about "faster than
light" moves, at least on that early stage.
>Cell Jr blew up Kaousei with a ki blast attack.
>
>Perfect Cell was powerful enough to easily cream a guy who could
>easily cream Cell Jr.
>
>Gohan was powerful enough to take on Perfect Cell and cream him just
>as easily.
>
>Now.
>
>Earth has 81 times the mass of the moon. To destroy the earth would
>therefore require a blast from someone with a power level of 11,259.
(...)
Your math, his point on, is good, but I disagree on the basis: that the
moon can be destroyed with a mere 139.
By the way, as it could be interesting to point at this moment, I gauge
Superman's Power Level at the 35.000.000 units as the regular basis, being
able to rise it to 1.000.000.000 (1 billion, in european numeration) with
some exertion and a maximum top of 256.000.000.000.000 (256 billions) to
1.000.000.000.000.000 (one thousand billions), but this for just very small
fractions of time.
Where do I take this numbers? The DC Heroes RPG helps me there: the game
uses a scale where every number (called APs = Attribute Points)means the
double of the previous one (so 3 is the double of 2, 4 is the double of 3,
etc...). Given that, Superman is given a STR 25, where the common man has a
STR 2. This way we can make a table of power levels to APs: giving a common
man a Power Level 4, and taking into account that coomon men have 2 APs in
all their attributes, we can build the following table:
APs POWER LEVEL
1 2
2 4
3 8
4 16
5 32 (this would be the max level for real non-Martial Arts
strongmen)
6 64
7 125 (rounding)
8 250
9 500
10 1.000
11 2.000 (this would be around the max level for DCs human best
Martial Artists ever)
12 4.000
13 8.000
14 16.000
15 32.000 (this would be around the level of the Legion's Karate Kid)
... ...
20 1.000.000
21 2.000.000
22 4.000.000 (this would be around Captain's Atom level)
23 8.000.000
24 16.000.000 (this would be around DC's Captain Marvel's level)
25 32.000.000 (Superman)
Now, Superman rarely uses his strength to the top, but due to his other
powers (invulnerability, superspeed and heat vision for the power level
issue) i've used the power level related with "25".
But... to simulate the usual in comic-books fact that heroes use to be
seen making things that they usually can't do and overcoming for short
moments/actions their limits, the game includes the rule of Pushing.
Basically it allows the chance of rising the AP level to up the double (so,
somebody with STR 10 could rise it to 20 for purposes of a single attack or
lifting a weight, straining himself). For Superman, this allows us to arrive
to the 50 APs STR that would mean the billionaire Power level numbers I
gave.
Sorry for snipping your maths: I don't disagree with them, just with the
basis of them (by the way, gravity is not the only thing related to the
resistance of a planet).
(...)
>>>since Supes has been beaten to the punch by Ambush Bug,
>>
>> The Ambush Bug is an out-from-continuity character, introduced as comic
>>relief and a link with the real world. It's like Johnny DC, a
>>meta-character.
>
>So? Because he's comic relief he's not to be considered at all? Does
>this mean that Jinzouningen #19 (...)
No no no... The key word in what I was saying is "OUT FROM CONTINUITY"
(well, that was 3 words). It's a meta-character, not a real character inside
the DC Universe, the same way the Byrne's Hulka wasn't really inside the
Marvel Universe or the many Dragon Ball parodies or the first 3 movies
doesn't happen on the DB Universe (Arale and the Penguin Village are a
borderline case: they could exist in the same universe, or the excessive
speed of Blue and Goku at that point could send them to a tangential
dimension).
>The problem is that you can't pick and choose with continuity.
Yes, you can. Sometimes you can't, I agree, but most of the time, you
can.
>The DC and Marvel continuities are holey as they come, and Pre-C
>Superman's done some downright _stupid_ stuff, despite supposedly
>being a supergenius of the highest order.
We completely agree there ^__^
>If it happened, accept that it happened.
Alternate dimensions and creative license are there for not having to
accept it if it doesn't fit.
>However, Superman does not think and react at the same speeds Goku
>can just _move_. Superman needs runups and has to deal with terminal
>velocities and light barriers to exceed light and sound - Goku doesn't
>and doesn't even notice.
The same basical disagree without your conception and mine that I will
not aenter again. But another thing to think about: towards the android saga
Goku was adapted to what, 300 G? 500 G? 600 G? Ok. On Superman's Exile
(post-Crisis, pre-Zero Hour), Superman teleported near a sun by error. Do
you want to know the gravity that place has? Around 300.000 G.
>Goku was dodging bullets after they'd been fired when he was barely
>ten. He was also dodging not-quite-light-speed-but-a-significant-
>portion-of-it laser beams when he was in his teens (against Piccolo,
>Volume 16, for those who care).
Lots of people on the DC Universe can dodge energy and laser blasts. That
doesn't mean they are faster than light.
>The Kamehameha was fast enough to travel to the moon effectively
>_instantaneously_. Goku didn't dodge many of them _after_ they'd been
>fired, but he _did_ do so when he surpassed a power level of 1,000 -
>heck, he did it against Nappa, who was barely centimeters away from
>him.
Superman has also done it. Not often (specially this days, due to bad
writers who forgot most of his powers, and also to the fact that being more
or less invulnerable you prefer to take the blasts that allowing them to
endanger others) but he *can* do it. Look at some JL issues of the last 12
months and you'll see it.
>> Oh, Doomsday will eat Songoku any time of the day: just take into
account
>>that his power is the perfection of a characteristic in saiyans. They get
>>stronger when surviving near death: Doomsday get stronger whenever
opposing
>>higher forces. So, the stronger you beat him, the stronger he is going to
>>become. You don't want to meet him after he adapts to a Genki Dama...
>
>Ah, slight problem; I doubt that Doomsday could survive atomisation (I
>may, of course, be wrong).
He has survived many many things, but the most impressive is that he was
thrown into the end of time, where pure entropy reigns and that just kept
him from coming back, it didn't destroyed him.
> And since the Genki Dama actually can make matter _cease_
>_existing_, I don't think Doomsday _could_ adapt.
He could not adapt to dying. Of course, another thing would be if he
WOULD be affected by the Genki Dama, on the first place, or if he would give
you time to build one powerful enough.
>>>Superman can be hurt by someone as strong as he is -
>>
>> Of course, Goku too.
>
>Indeed. Such as Kid Buu or Uub.
It should be pointed that characters more resistant than strong would
break the paradigm. Brainiac 5, per example, with his force field belt. If
two Brainiac-5 fought, none would hurt each one, despite being as strong as
the other.
>>> and Goku is _much_ stronger.
>>
>> No. Goku is a far better martial artist, but not stronger, as you can
see
>>by the different weights he lifts and throws during the series.
>
>Nope. Goku hefts Kitchin alloy above his head with one hand. The
>stuff's denser than a neutron star and he still lugs it above his
>head.
From my translation of that issue (when the Z sword breaks, right?):
"The Kitchin alloy is the hardest metal in the universe". Nothing said
about weight or density.
>There are the forty-ton weights issues, but note that this was after a
>nigh-on constant extended workout in vastly higher gravity than
>Earth's (over the Kaiosei's normal 10*).
Ok, so let's say that Goku could lift 40 ton * 10 * 3 (just a number for
when not tired). 1.200 tons. Very impressive. Now, let's thing it was done
after he was used to 100G (at his arrival to Namek). That would sum 12.000
tons as the maximum weight he can lift. Superman can *easily* lift in the
order of the 500.000 tons, and has arrived to exert strengths hundreds (if
not thousands) higher when it was needed. Post-Crisis.
>> Goku must be
>>around Captain Atom or Martian Manhunter in the strength department. On
the
>>other hand, Goku's proficience in Martial Arts DO put him on a Superman
>>level, and even higher when at SJ3 or 4.
>
>Er... Super Saiyajin 4 never _actually_ happened. Dragonball GT
>doesn't actually count, really.
LOL... Ok ^__^
(...)
>And, unless I'm misremembering, did Batman not whale on a weakened
>Pre-Crisis Superman, a Superman that suffered through a nuclear bomb?
>Or was that post-crisis?
I don't remember it post Crisis. The only thing related was a weakened
Superman due to the radiation from Krypton's explosion finally arriving to
Earth battling ManBat (and ManBat was almost thrashed).
>>>Goku's first Kamehameha was about on scale with a nuclear bomb, and
>>>he was barely _TEN_.
>>
>> False. Goku's first KameHameHa barely damaged Bulma's car. It wasn't
>>until DB-Z (at Namek) that Goku's Kames became near that strength.
>
>Hm? I do indeed stand corrected; I was thinking of Muten Roshi's,
>which blew up Mount Frypan and the moon. And Goku's were as strong
>and stronger, as Goku was notably stronger than Roshi by the time
>Tenshinhan and Chauozu turned up.
(...)
Clark Kent
Lord Torankusu-kaiou and the Roaming Explosive Pusfart wrote:
>"Clark Kent" <amu...@menta.com> wrote in message news:39a6726d@eldjouf...
>> >Goku can fly at 208,000 light years a second. That's not even at SSJ3.
>>
>> Where are you pulling that number of? That's never been said or seen
on
>> the TV series or the comic book one. So, I dare to say that whatever your
>> source it's not accurate with how the character is portrayed in the canon
>> stories.
>
>gives a number estimating the speed or power of any character in DBZ, odds
>are it's accurate, or at least incredibly close.
After reading his message explaining the numbers' origin I agree he has
done his work. I've done it, also: I wrote Dragon Ball write-ups for the DC
Heroes RPG and watched the entire TV series and read the whole manga series
many times before writing them. I had seen/read them before, but this time I
payed attention to the details to be able to build the stats. They were also
commented on the DC Heroes Mailing List, so they were discussed and modified
by the visions of many different fans, both of DB and DC. So I also have my
work done.
Just for the record ^_^.
Jim Stanfield
> Greetings, ladies and gentlemen:
> Lord Talen wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:19:29 +0200, "Clark Kent" <amu...@menta.com>
>> wrote:
>> Ooh, I'm a Lord... For that, I'll actually try to be polite... ;p
>
> ^___^
>
> (Asking for a demonstration of the spped & power numbers origin)
>
>> Actually, it has been.
>>
>> Allow me to rant, if you will.
>>
>> Muten Roushi blew up the moon at a power level of 139. He did not use
>> _all_ this power in the attack, as he was actually able to fight
>> _afterward_ and was sufficiently rested to continue fight a battle
>> with a Goku who'd had a nap to boot.
>
> As the knowleadgeable of the series you have demonstrated to be: don't
> you see anything strange in that a simple 139 level blast destroyed the
> moon? Related to this, an example: do we agree that Piccolo Jr. was stronger
> than Muten at the point of the Tournament where Piccolo fought Goku? If so,
> have you noticed that Piccolo's mightiest attack (I don't know the name of
> the Bomb he used as a final
> Side note: my opinion is that the "moon destruction" was meant to be a
> joke. Many times after that the moon was on DB (and no, I don't mean the
> illusory moon that "awakened" Gohan ^_^). Example: if I remember well,
> during the second fire of the Ox King Castle.
That would be because Kami-sama restored the moon.
>> Radditz could move faster than light at a power level of 1,200. Gohan,
>> Yamucha, and Kururin could all move at roughly light speeds with power
>> levels of 1,000. And, incidentally, this is explicitly shown in the
>> manga several times.
>
> We must agree in that we disagree, because I don't see it that way. I
> suppose you don't mean the "dissappear here-appear there" moves that are so
> common on DB. I'll re-read the mangas but I've never read about "faster than
> light" moves, at least on that early stage.
There's a difference between the "disappear here-appear there" and going
faster than light.
There have been many instances of people moving so fast they appeared to
move instantaneously, even in the original Dragon Ball. (I believe this
technique first showed up when Gokuu fought Kuririn and Tenshinhan.) Piccolo
saw, and even performed, some of these quick movements, and didn't recognize
them as beyond light speed.
But, when fighting Radiittsu, Piccolo was amazed that "Radiittsu can move
faster than light!!!", for he had never seen anything surpass light. Note
that he didn't say, "Radiittsu appears to move faster than light!"; he
specifically states Radiittsu moves beyond light speed. He and Gokuu
couldn't follow their enemy's superlight speeds, and were easily beaten.
>> Cell Jr blew up Kaousei with a ki blast attack.
>>
>> Perfect Cell was powerful enough to easily cream a guy who could
>> easily cream Cell Jr.
>>
>> Gohan was powerful enough to take on Perfect Cell and cream him just
>> as easily.
>>
>> Now.
>>
>> Earth has 81 times the mass of the moon. To destroy the earth would
>> therefore require a blast from someone with a power level of 11,259.
> (...)
>
> Your math, his point on, is good, but I disagree on the basis: that the
> moon can be destroyed with a mere 139.
All that's known is that Roshi destroyed the moon, and that he probably
never got much stronger than 139 during the series.
> <SNIP>
I don't follow Superman much, so I can't really argue or agree with you on
the rest of this...
--
Jim Stanfield
Talen
Incidentally, you didn't post, and I've given you a full week in which
to do it. Tut, tut.
--
Talen
http://www.crosswinds.net/~talenkun/
"I think I just had a blonde moment that just lasted for days..."
- Foxtail
Foxtail_
> to do it. Tut, tut.
Do you blame him - would YOU argue against you?
> "I think I just had a blonde moment that just lasted for days..."
> - Foxtail
You forgot the underscore ( _ ) ...and wasn't the quote "I think I had a
blonde moment that just lasted for days..." ? ^_^
William Hopkins
26...@student.nwlehighsd.org
> Fight time: Superman vs Trunks and the winner is???
YEET