Christian Bale's Batman NOT in Justice League Movie

[KalElFan]

From Bale himself (he thinks it should be handed over to a
new actor now) and here's the Entertainment Weekly link:

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/07/01/christian-bale-batman-justice-league/

While it might have been tempting, I think this is the right
move. Man of Steel needs to be the launching point for
whatever they do moving forward. When it was announced
right after opening weekend that the Man of Steel sequel
might be as soon as next year, I gave my thoughts on the
issue at the time here:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/rec.arts.comics.dc.universe/cUgfJuOZAaU

And suggested this kind of schedule might be what they
had in mind:

Dec 2014 - Man of Steel Sequel ("World's Finest"?)
July 2015 - Batman (recast)
Dec 2015 - Justice League
July 2016 - Wonder Woman
Dec 2016 - Flash
July 2017 - Man of Steel 2nd Sequel

So we can assume now that the Batman (recast) will
indeed be the route they go, though we're not sure of
the order of the movies. If I was changing the above,
it might be to put Justice League further down, after
Wonder Woman and Flash have had their movies. I
put it higher because the rumor said JL would be as
early as 2015.

[Your Name]

In article <b3h7jn...@mid.individual.net>, "KalElFan"
<kale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
<Snip>

> And suggested this kind of schedule might be what they
> had in mind:
>
> Dec 2014 - Man of Steel Sequel ("World's Finest"?)
> July 2015 - Batman (recast)
> Dec 2015 - Justice League
> July 2016 - Wonder Woman
> Dec 2016 - Flash
> July 2017 - Man of Steel 2nd Sequel

More like:

Dec 2014 - Man of Steel Sequel ("World's Finest"?)

July 2015 - Batman (reboot again)
Dec 2015 - Superman (reboot again)
July 2016 - Batman sequel
Dec 2016 - Superman sequel
July 2017 - Batman (reboot again)

Plus of course yet a couple of Spider-Man reboots from the Marvel side. :-(

[KalElFan]

"Russell Watson" wrote in message news:kr04nd$e2d$1...@dont-email.me...

[KalElFan suggested to match reported DC/Warners comments]:

>> Dec 2014 - Man of Steel Sequel ("World's Finest"?)
>> July 2015 - Batman (recast)
>> Dec 2015 - Justice League
>> July 2016 - Wonder Woman
>> Dec 2016 - Flash
>> July 2017 - Man of Steel 2nd Sequel

[...]
>
> If I'm wrong I will happily admit it when the time comes,
> but IF, and I think that's a pretty big IF, a JLA flick ever
> gets made I don't think it's going to be anywhere near
> the caliber of movie OR anywhere near the draw that
> "Avengers" was. Marvel set that up perfectly, had a plan
> going in and stuck with it, built on expectations with their
> little post-credit "Easter Eggs", etc. while "Man of Steel"
> didn't have so much as a "Superman will return in..."
> blurb at the end. And even the man who made a smash
> of "Avengers" and is now working on the sequel had to
> abandon his attempt to bring Wonder Woman to the big
> screen, while a shot at returning the character to the
> boob tube has also crashed and burned in the meantime.
> Bale is done with Batman, not sure if Reynolds would be
> willing to reprise Green Lantern even in another solo movie,
> let alone an ensemble. Cavill might be willing to do Superman
> in JLA simply because he isn't quite the star the others are,
> or at least wasn't before MOS became the second biggest
> film so far this summer. And there's always the question
> of how many eggs they feel compelled to put in the basket:
> nobody has mentioned Flash, but it's kind of hard to imagine
> a version of JLA without him, especially since he is known as
> the comic relief to those only versed in the most recent
> animated version.

None of that would have mattered of course if Man of Steel
hadn't been so successful, not just at the box office but in
terms of its reception by the core base AND moviegoers. It's
because it HAS been so successful that lots of decisions have
to be made. I think the Bale one is correct. Better that the
Nolan trilogy remain separate. As for Reynolds, I think it's
a decision that needn't be made now at all. Over the next
few years, there should be no GL standalone sequel nor any
reboot, nor should Green Lantern even appear as a supporting
character yet. He can be a later arrival, after the other 4 of
the Big 5.

Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are the traditional
Big Three in Justice League, followed by The Flash and
Green Lantern. The Reynolds movie was better than many
gave it credit for, and it had humor so I'd argue that Flash
is not alone in that potential. With the Big 3, I think they
have to be played more seriously than Flash and Green
Lantern can get away with as the second tier. Not saying
NO humor at all for the others, because there should be
some there too. But relatively speaking.

So just leave Green Lantern undecided for now. Reynolds
could play a rebooted Green Lantern for example. Flash,
IMO, has two main purposes in the Big Picture of the
plans Warner Bros. should have. Not necessarily in order:

1. His power is godlike, akin to Superman's super-speed
but Flash *specializes in it*. This makes him "worthy"
as a second-tier hero in the Big 5, and it also even sets
up a bit of rivalry with Superman. At least two cover
stories in the comics featured races between the two.

If that latter point is not in the writers' minds as they
map out the movie series, they aren't doing their job.
It's a no-brainer buzz-builder. :-) Fast and Furious as a
franchise has made way more than Superman has the
last decade, and a "Flash and Furiouser" race in, say,
Man of Steel 3 is a highlight waiting to happen. :-)
Not the whole movie based on that, but it's in there.

DC needs to ensure that the best of its legacy that's
crying out to be adapted for the live action big screen
DOES get adapted. It might even be worth a rematch
over in Flash's subsequent movie. :-)

2. Next key to Flash is the broader DC mythology and in
particular the Multiverse. The Flash of Two Worlds
comic introduced it and to some marks the start of
DC's Silver Age. The Multiverse MUST BE ESTABLISHED
in this upcoming series, and Flash and the Cosmic
Treadmill and the like are the tools to do it. This will
serve DC well even AFTER the MOS-led series has run
its course and they need to reboot because the actors
have become too expensive and so on. It's what Sony
did with Spider-Man and Disney will do with Marvel
at some point.

I've been a strong proponent of this for a long time
and don't want to get into too many details, but for
example once established the Multiverse offers a
perfect way to get Reynolds in a rebooted GL that's
NEW to the MOS-verse. Just have The Flash from
the MOS-verse, via the Multiverse concept, bring
over the 2011 Reynolds GL for a cameo. The MOS-
verse Hal Jordan, also played by Reynolds, gets a
heads up on what's about to happen to him.

Confusing? Bull-fracking-shit! This concept is now
ubiquitous in SF. There are alternate universe stories
all over the place and they're among the best and
most popular. SEVEN-To-TWELVE year olds got it in
a snap back in Silver Age. This series CANNOT succeed
if it assumes its audience are morons who cannot get
what 7-to-12 year olds got 50 fracking years ago.

A related Flash issue is time travel but they have to be
careful with that. Not saying never do it, but especially
in the MOSverse I think it's towards the end of it at best.
The Multiverse, no that should be established in a Flash. :-)
First Flash movie, perhaps teased in his first appearance
if that happens prior. There are so many things they can
do with it. It's a great creative tool AND it provides an
overall framework where even the Superman Returns
universe, for example, exists within the context of the
MOS-verse! It can be the universe next door or it can
be forever unspoken.

Before Flash, Wonder Woman though. She's in the Big 3
and I read a detailed review of Whedon's version. It was
not bad at all and I think it was probably a mistake not to
greenlight it at the time. It may not be exactly what they
need now but essentially Wonder Woman is simple and
I think fits beautifully within the MOSverse. Her race is
ancient, as is Aquaman's. The Amazons and Atlantis are
two *EARTH* civilizations, not Krypton or Oan or anything
extraterrestrial. Someone may nitpick that but that's the
best approach to it in the MOS-verse.

Likewise, the supporting character J'onn Jonzz aka Martian
Manhunter. Best version or adaptation for the MOS-verse
is he's the last survivor of an ancient civilization on Mars,
now extinct like Krypton (sensing a theme here?). He ends
up in our time because he's brought forward, accidentally
or otherwise, in the backstory. Get me the Flash to explain
this to the writers! :-) Flash, time travel, remember? This
stuff writes itself and they SHOULD introduce Martian
Manhunter in this series. In Smallville, I'm pretty sure the
shape-shifting ability helped Clark keep his secret as well.

If they shy away from their legacy, they're never going to
succeed. But YES they need to manage the timing and way
they introduce characters.

I think Kara Zor-El, Wonder Woman and Aquaman (neither
in costume, use Diana and Arthur their human alter egos),
AND Martian Manhunter should all be introduced towards
the end of Man of Steel 2. If you think about it, the first
Man of Steel was a First Contact story. It's logical that the
Amazons and Atlantis, Diana and Arthur as their emissaries
so to speak, and J'onn J'onzz as the last of an ancient and
local (our solar system) civilization, would have followed
that development with keen interest. They would have had
to. It was world-changing AND it affects whether their own
Unknown/Secret civilizations (Amazons and Atlantis at least)
might now be approaching the point where they consider
their own First Contact with the modern world.

Not yet though. But who do they contact, as a first step, in
a couple of years at the end of the sequel? DUH. Double
Uber-Duh. :-) Have all three reveal themselves to Superman,
ideally in conjunction with the great Kara Zor-El Easter Egg
they've left in the prequel comic. The themes are so in sync
with Man of Steel's I've come to the conclusion it's just not
possible Goyer and the like would not see this. You can't
just "introduce" Wonder Woman like she just decided to
show up, nor Aquaman nor Martian Manhunter. THEY ARE
ANCIENT, or at least their civilizations are. They HAD TO
HAVE EXISTED long before the First Contact story in Man
of Steel.

Clark thinks he's the Last Son of Krypton by the end of Man
of Steel. That's part of the Dark nature of that Superman
Begins story and Clark's (yes, Clark's) reaction after killing
Zod. He was in the suit, but he was Clark and Lois was
consoling Clark. This was great as a reboot, but the series
MUST NOW MOVE AWAY FROM THE DARK. Here's an
article from a fanboy type arguing DC is now the Dark and
Marvel is the upbeat stuff.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=46374

Note as well on that page the photo from Man of Steel where
the site has added the caption "would you want to live in this
superhero reality?" Seriously, take a look at it and in particular
the background of the Metropolis landscape. I have a few
points to make about it for those arguing that there must
have been 250,000, or millions and millions or whatever
crazy numbers dead.

You'll see in the clearly visible distance intact buildngs! The
terraforming attack did NOT destroy even all of downtown
Metropolis. The foreground, yes, though even there we
see structures intact. It's more like heavy damage and
windows blown out and the like. With the section Superman
hovers over in his battle with Zod, completely levelled yes.
Trillion dollars? I doubt it but it's possible they use that
as the number. Deaths? Virtually none that we know
of, that I can recall seeing.

"Impossible!" cry the nitpickers.

Probably close to impossible, yes, but there's a big
jump from some casualties to 250,000 or millions
or any massive numbers nitpickers pull out their
arse, when we see no bodies and hardly anyone who
watches these movies wants to.

They shut down a whole downtown for 24 hours or
whatever it was to try to catch the Boston terrorist.
Many people questioned that, but they did it. The
Man of Steel scenario is the Daily Planet is Ground
Zero for the end of the world. Lois Lane alone knows
who the Alien Among Us is and the authorities have
her in custody within minutes. Powerful aliens want
"Kal-El" to surrender OR ELSE EARTH SUFFERS, within
24 hours.

It would not have been an overreaction at all to
evacuate all of downtown AT LEAST, except for the
Daily Planet in particular which would have been
the focus of intense investigations. In the longer
cut(s) or in the sequel there may be explicit mention
of that. Property damage alone, even if it's a trillion
dollars, would make the stakes even more lopsided.
It's a trillion dollars and minimal deaths vs the
extinction of the species! Massive. Frickin'. Duh. :-)

We won't know until it gets addressed, but when looking
at that photo and its caption consider an alternative one:

"Clark Kent, Farm Boy, becomes a Man of *STEEL*
as he's saved humanity from extinction and prepares
to take care of some mop-up Zod business for good."

It does NOT have to be a Dark story, but I agree it could
be. They could go all Kingdom Come and have the Joker
kill Lois and Rao knows what other damn fool misreading
of their market these idiots (that's what they'll ALL be)
may have in their damn fool heads. We won't know until
we see it, but it can be the exact OPPOSITE, All the
more so with the additional wisdom and perspective
that the Amazons, Atlantis, and the lessons of Mars
can bring, plus the HOPE of another El who was on
Krypton before it went all dystopian.

If they handle this great start right, it'll have the market
salivating for big screen instalments of it for the next 5-7
years, two movies a year. It might even go 10 years it'll
be that good, and then thanks to the DC Multiverse the
market will be ready for another 10-year reboot cycle.

Villains are important too obviously but that's a whole
other post or series of them. :-)

> ... we all know that no movie is marketed solely to
> comics geeks, among whom DC has plenty of loyal
> followers.

Of course not, but again Man of Steel was ultimately
a story about an exceptional young man's journey
from Farm Boy to Man of Steel, and his CHOOSING
HUMANITY and SAVING HUMANITY for crissakes. That
was the scenario, and a fringe group of nitpickers are
imagining crazy death tolls when we see no bodies.

I think the movie can justify it, easily, by the core of
Metropolis being largely evacuated as it would have
been. But whatever deaths there were is compared to
7 billion. It's just not an issue, but it COULD BE if they
double down on uber-Dark in sequels. That would be
a big, big mistake and the executroids at Warners need
to forbid it if anyone involved is asking for it (and I hope
they aren't). That is not what the wider market wants
to see and not what most of the base wants to see.