Barry Blair's artwork
Anca I Mosoiu
halfway through the messages I have missed over vacation, and I just HAVE to
talk... ;-)
First off, I will say that Barry Blair's art in EQ gives me the creeps. His
story in NB 1 and 2 just pissed me off, mostly because I never saw Suntop as the
kind of idiot to go off wandering around humans, black sending or no. (And then
I have a few questions about humans, as wel... -)
I was much happier with War (if we have to have it, I suppose), mostly because
Barry didn't ink it! That's right, there was somone there vaguely more
"realistic", and so we didn't get the airbrushed, elves-in-tight-pants with big
balls that we usually see from him. So thanks to the inker for that little feat!
;-)
It was also the first time that I was able to see the elves drawn by someone else
but still recognizable, and with reasonable bodies. Far too many of the New
Blood artists (and even Hidden years) can't draw people well enough to make them
look solid and convincing (this was always one of my favorite things about
Wendy.) Yes, Kahvy looked different (and her hair was all WRONG!) but she still
had that "Kahvi" quality to her that made me very pleased. I din't like the fact
that all her clothes disappeared (really, this woman is supposed to be a warrior,
she wouldn't run around in a sword and a bikini).
I didn't like the fact that Dart was such a wuss. He is Strongbow's son, and
should be a bit more rough and less weepy than he seemed. I liked Mender's
reaction...
But there it was. The story was pretty good. A nice concept, even if too much
of it was rather contrived (the scene with the trolls was nice). The art was
better than I have been getting from this title (with #10 a major exception).
I just wish Blair would stick to managing (and Elflord, where his art has a
place) and leave EQ to more artistically competent hands.
Sigh.
Anca.
Edward W Barry __ Oxford University Press
about issue 6, and why I'm still not in the habit of
buying them....
amm...@athena.mit.edu (Anca I Mosoiu):
> Far too many of the New Blood artists (and even Hidden
> years) can't draw people well enough to make them
> look solid and convincing (this was always one of
> my favorite things about Wendy.) Yes, Kahvi looked
> different (and her hair was all WRONG!) but she still
> had that "Kahvi" quality to her that made me very pleased.
The individuality of the figures in Wendy's art is one of the
things that I really like. Even in a group scene, even when
the elves are just shadows or profiles, you can pick out the
individual elves. And, although I hate to admit it, Blair
did have moments where he captured the individuality of an
elf--I thought Yun and Chot were also generally pretty close.
Maybe he has an affinity for Go-Backs?
> I didn't like the fact that Dart was such a wuss. He is
> Strongbow's son, and should be a bit more rough and less
> weepy than he seemed. I liked Mender's reaction...
I thought Dart was a bit wimpy--I couldn't see Strongbow
reacting like that, or Nightfall. But maybe he wanted to
emphasize the importance of their relationship. And Mender's
reaction was...interesting. I don't like him much. I find
him awfully bloodthirsty--the kind of bloodthirstiness that
comes from people who watch others spill blood, and love to
egg them on without running a risk themselves. I noticed
this particularly in Hidden Years 9 1/2, when the elves are all
watching the fight at the end, and even Skywise and Ember are
rather horrified, Mender is still grinning like he thinks this
is the greatest thing ever.
Anyway--"War" is an important part of elf history. Interesting
plot, and it sets up a lot of exciting things (I hope). And,
as someone pointed out (I know I read it _somewhere_), Wendy
is listed as the co-editor. Odd to think that maybe some of
the things I object to most came from Wendy.
--Layla
Edward W Barry __ Oxford University Press
left on vacation, so I guess that makes it Really, Really Old...
> ...I still think that the stargazer has ignored something too
> long. Aroree has to carry a lot of guilt and I just can see
> Skywise turning away every time she tries to talk to him about
> it. I think he's been an ignoramous long enough and that it's
> time for Aroree to find a better way of life--away from the
> Wolfriders--and to let Skydense wonder what might have been.
[...]
> [Re Foxfur's death]....but he [Skywise] has to go on at some
> point. He just takes so long to face things and move on. He
> carried all the lore about his mom for all of his childhood
> and early adulthood. He probably still carries some of it.
> And the bit about the claustrophobia--in not so succinct
> a word--it took Cutter's test (that issue was truly cheesy...
> good intent, good story, bad execution) to get him over it.
> I really do think that Aroree deserves someone with more of
> a heart and less of a selfcentered worldview than Skywise.
> Crone
True, all true. Much as I like Skywise, he is a fairly self-centered guy.
Friendly, nice, cheerful, funny--the kind of guy you'd go out on a bunch
of dates with and have a lot fun, but nothing else. He has too many other
loyalties--to Cutter and his family, and maybe even to Foxfur--and too
much other emotional baggage to make room for yet another soul.
However, about Aroree: There's finding a better way of life away from
the Wolfriders and there's finding a better way of life away from Skywise.
I think she should move on and find someone other than Skywise, or at least
move on and stop pining for him. But she seems to have created a pretty
good life for herself with the Wolfriders: they accept her, they respect
her experience and intelligence, and she has a definite place in the holt. She
was included in the council of seniors in Hidden Years 9 1/2, for instance.
She has friends, she has a purpose, she is useful--I'm not sure where else
she could go that would be better for her.
Again--I went on vacation (like everyone else), so I know I'm responding
to posts that are years old. But I thought what you said was pretty
interesting, so I just wanted to comment. Thanks!
--Layla
By the way: what issue is Cutter's claustrophobia test in?
Matti Mikael M [nk|
>True, all true. Much as I like Skywise, he is a fairly self-centered guy.
...
>. He has too many other
>loyalties--to Cutter and his family, and maybe even to Foxfur--and too
Too many loyalties? Yes, why not, but self-centered? Hmmm... No, I'd
rather say that his relationship with stars makes him look and act a
bit "odd" - or "self-centered" - sometimes, because no-one can see
stars the way he does.
>However, about Aroree: There's finding a better way of life away from
>the Wolfriders and there's finding a better way of life away from Skywise.
>I think she should move on and find someone other than Skywise, or at least
>move on and stop pining for him. But she seems to have created a pretty
She'll have all the time there is and she (obviously) loves Skywise, so
she's waiting to get through his mind and heart some day? (I know that
kind of love is "not in" these days, but so what!) That seems to be her
own decision.
>She has friends, she has a purpose, she is useful--I'm not sure where else
>she could go that would be better for her.
And her ranking is rather high among the Wolfriders.
No, things wouldn't be like that if she were with Go-Backs for example.
>--Layla
>
>By the way: what issue is Cutter's claustrophobia test in?
I checked Bill Karwins list (article 564 in this group (Yes, I have stored
"some" articles...)) and I think it's "The Passage" in NB 93 Summer Special.
3m
--
El{m{n tarkoitus? Teist{ muista en tied{, mutta min{ etsin
el{m{n Perimm{ist{, Suurta Totuutta, jonka olemassaolosta
tied{n vain sen, ettei sit{ ole olemassa. Ymm{rr{n ja hyv{ksyn
t{m{n, mutten anna sen lainkaan h{irit{ etsint{{ni.
Matti Mikael M [nk|
Layla wrote:
> And Mender's
>reaction was...interesting. I don't like him much. I find
>him awfully bloodthirsty--the kind of bloodthirstiness that
>comes from people who watch others spill blood, and love to
>egg them on without running a risk themselves. I noticed
>this particularly in Hidden Years 9 1/2, when the elves are all
>watching the fight at the end, and even Skywise and Ember are
>rather horrified, Mender is still grinning like he thinks this
>is the greatest thing ever.
Don't be too hard on him. Mender is still young. He hadn't
lived with Wolfriders before. He is not used to the Pack-law
and the War has been his only(?) experience about violent
action. And he is so hot-headed about being a Wolfrider and
admiring Cutter (HY#4). And because he is sort of "newbie"
among them, he overacts.
But yes: sometimes he overacts too much...
I'm sure he'll calm down when he grows up. I hope.
>--Layla
David G. Martin
>Layla wrote:
>>True, all true. Much as I like Skywise, he is a fairly self-centered guy.
>...
>>. He has too many other
>>loyalties--to Cutter and his family, and maybe even to Foxfur--and too
>Too many loyalties? Yes, why not, but self-centered? Hmmm... No, I'd
>rather say that his relationship with stars makes him look and act a
>bit "odd" - or "self-centered" - sometimes, because no-one can see
>stars the way he does.
kO
>>However, about Aroree: There's finding a better way of life away from
>>the Wolfriders and there's finding a better way of life away from Skywise.
>>I think she should move on and find someone other than Skywise, or at least
>>move on and stop pining for him. But she seems to have created a pretty
>She'll have all the time there is and she (obviously) loves Skywise, so
>she's waiting to get through his mind and heart some day? (I know that
>kind of love is "not in" these days, but so what!) That seems to be her
>own decision.
>>She has friends, she has a purpose, she is useful--I'm not sure where else
>>she could go that would be better for her.
>And her ranking is rather high among the Wolfriders.
>No, things wouldn't be like that if she were with Go-Backs for example.
>>--Layla
>>
>>~rBy the way: what issue is Cutter's claustrophobia test in?
>I checked Bill Karwins list (article 564 in this group (Yes, I have stored
>"some" articles...)) and I think it's "The Passage" in NB 93 Summer Special.
>3m
>--
> El{m{n tarkoitus? Teist{ muista en tied{, mutta min{ etsin
> el{m{n Perimm{ist{, Suurta Totuutta, jonka olemassaolosta
> tied{n vain sen, ettei sit{ ole olemassa. Ymm{rr{n ja hyv{ksyn
> t{m{n, mutten anna sen lainkaan h{irit{ etsint{{ni.
-I don't think Skywise is self-centered. I think he is afraid of being
close to anyone.
CLAWZ
David G. Martin
David G. Martin
that Mender seems too bloodthirsty-a huge change from the gentle mender in
HY2. I don't think it is because he is just young- there has to be some
other reason! We've seen some other young wolfriders and even a few young
sunfolk and they are not nearly as bloodthirsty as Mender was. I suspect
that Mender wouldn't have been as eager if it was not Rayek that Cutter
was fighting.
CLAWZ And sorry about the post entitled Rayek although the name
Rayek appears only once-I accidentally switched subject and summary and I
was planning to have him in it.
Tree of Schnopia
>-I don't think Skywise is self-centered. I think he is afraid of being
>close to anyone.
Afraid? Possibly, but I doubt it. I think it's more likely that romance
hasn't found him yet.
Drewcifer
--
---- Andrew D. Simchik, as0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, Tree of Schnopia
\ ----
\\bi/ Drewcifer says, "?"
\/
Tree of Schnopia
>> I didn't like the fact that Dart was such a wuss. He is
>> Strongbow's son, and should be a bit more rough and less
>> weepy than he seemed. I liked Mender's reaction...
>I thought Dart was a bit wimpy--I couldn't see Strongbow
>reacting like that, or Nightfall. But maybe he wanted to
>emphasize the importance of their relationship. And Mender's
I just reviewed, and I couldn't find anything particularly wimpy about
Dart's reaction. Perhaps you wanted him to glance at Shushen and remark,
"bloody hell, not another boyfriend dead! crimony, now I've gotta find
another one!" Wussy? Wimpy? Weepy? No. Sensitive, perhaps...we've seen
that sensitivity before, too. I don't think there was anything amiss here.
>reaction was...interesting. I don't like him much. I find
>him awfully bloodthirsty--the kind of bloodthirstiness that
>comes from people who watch others spill blood, and love to
>egg them on without running a risk themselves. I noticed
>this particularly in Hidden Years 9 1/2, when the elves are all
>watching the fight at the end, and even Skywise and Ember are
>rather horrified, Mender is still grinning like he thinks this
>is the greatest thing ever.
That's not much of an anomaly...witness Hidden Years 10, where he teaches
Picknose a lesson in "respect." I have a feeling that this character trait
is intended to directly contrast with Leetah...the healer who hates killing
vs. the healer who wishes he were out there doing some. It's an interesting
dimension, which I like, and which can be partially justified by noting that
Mender is Wolfrider by blood, and, unlike Leetah, can never be truly happy
in the Sun Village mending cuts and scrapes and bruises. And what do we
think Ember taught him? Bingo!
>Anyway--"War" is an important part of elf history. Interesting
>plot, and it sets up a lot of exciting things (I hope). And,
>as someone pointed out (I know I read it _somewhere_), Wendy
>is listed as the co-editor. Odd to think that maybe some of
>the things I object to most came from Wendy.
I think that they very probably *did* come from Wendy, given that they're
consistent with Hidden Years, the so-called "official" storyline.
A note about Barry Blair...I have mixed feelings about the man's work. I
detested his work in New Bloods 1-3 (was it?), but I thought the art in War
1 and 2 was occasionally gorgeous, and the colors worked very well. Not
unnaturally, I adore the level of homoeroticism that pervades much of his
stuff, but I dislike his fight sequences, finding them laughably unrealistic
(e.g. Mender's back-breaking scene, and that oft-used behind-the-back Kahvi
stab--puh-leeze!). So go fig.
Crone
>>>the Wolfriders and there's finding a better way of life away from Skywise.
>>>I think she should move on and find someone other than Skywise, or at least
>>>move on and stop pining for him.
I thought I said something like that?
>>She'll have all the time there is and she (obviously) loves Skywise, so
>>she's waiting to get through his mind and heart some day?
Probably. Foolish gehrl. <smirk> She's waiting to get through his dense
Wolfrider skull, you mean.
>>(I know that
>>kind of love is "not in" these days, but so what!) That seems to be her
>>own decision.
But it's not. these are comics. It's up to WaRP, the storyline of which is
firstly written by Richard and secondly by Wendy. Richard is a man and it
would just suck if the woman left and got a life without the help of the
manly beasts or his personal persona stargazer. Wendy, I sense, is a little
sentimental and perhaps she feels a little for Skywise...maybe she won't
give up on this thing, or can't convince Richard to.
Now, after I post this, someone will tell me that they read the Net,
right? <chuckle> Well...I'd like to have reason to believe that there's
REASON that in all that time Aroree didn't learn to love herself--sometimes
I feel as if no one grew much while Cutter was "counting," becoming "human."
Anyone for the defense? The prosecution rests.
>>>She has friends, she has a purpose, she is useful--I'm not sure where else
>>>she could go that would be better for her.
What IS her purpose, eh? To live longer than all those mortal "friends?"
To be the Elder of all Elders? Gad.
>>And her ranking is rather high among the Wolfriders.
>>No, things wouldn't be like that if she were with Go-Backs for example.
I still don't feel her right among the Wolfriders. Maybe they just can't
stand to see Cutter in pain. I think that WaRP could have taken more time
in the time warp...letting the characters grow, showing us the Sleep more
directly...everything. It would have given WaRP a chance to grow into these
characters that are suddenly so much older, too.
>>>--Layla
Crone
Crone
>>> Strongbow's son, and should be a bit more rough and less
>>> weepy than he seemed. I liked Mender's reaction...
<<I sense a real beast out there. Bloodlust, anyone?>>
>>I thought Dart was a bit wimpy--I couldn't see Strongbow
>>reacting like that, or Nightfall. But maybe he wanted to
>>emphasize the importance of their relationship. And Mender's
I could see Strongbow going entirely insane if he lost Moonshade like that.
He'd snap. Crack.
>I just reviewed, and I couldn't find anything particularly wimpy about
>Dart's reaction. Perhaps you wanted him to glance at Shushen and remark,
>"bloody hell, not another boyfriend dead! crimony, now I've gotta find
>another one!" Wussy? Wimpy? Weepy? No. Sensitive, perhaps...we've seen
>that sensitivity before, too. I don't think there was anything amiss here.
Yes. Perhaps that's just how Dart is. I remember another young chief whose
words often were "I'm NOT my father." I think maybe you expected an
"ARAGGGHHHH!" And lots of berserker-type rage and bloodspilling--"Dart's
revenge." No. Dart took time to grieve. Masculinity problems?
>>reaction was...interesting. I don't like him much. I find
>>him awfully bloodthirsty--the kind of bloodthirstiness that
>>comes from people who watch others spill blood, and love to
>>egg them on without running a risk themselves. I noticed
>>this particularly in Hidden Years 9 1/2, when the elves are all
>>watching the fight at the end, and even Skywise and Ember are
>>rather horrified, Mender is still grinning like he thinks this
>>is the greatest thing ever.
Ahhh...he's young...and he's a healer and whaddya expect. A healer gotta
learn the hard way to respect Death.
>Mender is Wolfrider by blood, and, unlike Leetah, can never be truly happy
>in the Sun Village mending cuts and scrapes and bruises. And what do we
>think Ember taught him? Bingo!
No....he's happier causing cuts and scrapes and bruises and deaths and
stuff. He's got bloodlust indeed...who will teach the Wolfriders the word
for "murder?"
>A note about Barry Blair...I have mixed feelings about the man's work. I
>detested his work in New Bloods 1-3 (was it?), but I thought the art in War
>1 and 2 was occasionally gorgeous, and the colors worked very well. Not
>unnaturally, I adore the level of homoeroticism that pervades much of his
>stuff,
As do I...I find that the male artist with an admiration (sexual or not) for
the male body can draw a man that...wellllll...beats Wendy's men any day. I
know, as a female who tries to draw men (that is, paint them, not attract
them), that making them look beautiful and masculine both is really
difficult...maybe for Wendy too.
>but I dislike his fight sequences, finding them laughably unrealistic
>(e.g. Mender's back-breaking scene, and that oft-used behind-the-back Kahvi
>stab--puh-leeze!).
I liked the stab but it IS overused and badly drawn. Blair has action down
but realism still slips through his fingers. Sigh.
>Drewcifer
Somehow I guessed!
Crone
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"None shall bow, no elf shall bow head to another, not even to a chief, not
even to me." --Swift-Spear
Crone dm0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Crone
>had that "Kahvi" quality to her that made me very pleased. I din't like the fact
>that all her clothes disappeared (really, this woman is supposed to be a warrior,
>she wouldn't run around in a sword and a bikini).
She didn't run around IN a sword <giggle>. Well...she's also a sensible
woman. The desert is kinda warm...I can see her in womens wrestling clothes
more than in long, sheer flowy stuff like the dummy tried to put Moonshade
in. After all...that stuff would have her tripping and tangling her sword.
Tree of Schnopia
>>>I thought Dart was a bit wimpy--I couldn't see Strongbow
>>>reacting like that, or Nightfall. But maybe he wanted to
>>>emphasize the importance of their relationship. And Mender's
>I could see Strongbow going entirely insane if he lost Moonshade like that.
>He'd snap. Crack.
Excellent point!
>>another one!" Wussy? Wimpy? Weepy? No. Sensitive, perhaps...we've seen
>>that sensitivity before, too. I don't think there was anything amiss here.
>Yes. Perhaps that's just how Dart is. I remember another young chief whose
>words often were "I'm NOT my father." I think maybe you expected an
>"ARAGGGHHHH!" And lots of berserker-type rage and bloodspilling--"Dart's
>revenge." No. Dart took time to grieve. Masculinity problems?
Exactly. Hey, Crone, we're each other's cheerleader! :)
I was referring to Dart's quick friendship with Geoki. Sensitive,
indeed...friends with a human? We all know how Strongbow feels about the
five-fingers. I wonder if that incident inspired Blair to give Dart a
boyfriend. And Tree, but Shushen was *beautiful*! Man alive, could
*anyone* resist that face?
>As do I...I find that the male artist with an admiration (sexual or not) for
>the male body can draw a man that...wellllll...beats Wendy's men any day. I
>know, as a female who tries to draw men (that is, paint them, not attract
>them), that making them look beautiful and masculine both is really
>difficult...maybe for Wendy too.
Could be...Elflord and Elfheim, and Elflore as well, are all highly
homoerotic and involve some fairly clear homosexual relationships. Blair's
elves are like little angels.
>>but I dislike his fight sequences, finding them laughably unrealistic
>>(e.g. Mender's back-breaking scene, and that oft-used behind-the-back Kahvi
>>stab--puh-leeze!).
>I liked the stab but it IS overused and badly drawn. Blair has action down
>but realism still slips through his fingers. Sigh.
If I had my Elflords with me, Crone, I could show you the identical stab in
an early issue, done by a dark-haired warrior elf named Hawk Erickson.
And Crone...keep posting, you mad, impetuous fool. No one's sick of your
traffic in the *least*. **HUGS** "We *will* fluff alt.comics.elfquest!" :)
Drewcifer
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>"None shall bow, no elf shall bow head to another, not even to a chief, not
>even to me." --Swift-Spear
P.S. Killer quote!
--
---- Andrew D. Simchik, as0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, Tree of Schnopia
\ ----
\\bi/ Drewcifer says, "?" The Twist says, "!"
\/
Crone
>>revenge." No. Dart took time to grieve. Masculinity problems?
>Exactly. Hey, Crone, we're each other's cheerleader! :)
Frightening thought, isn't it?
>I was referring to Dart's quick friendship with Geoki. Sensitive,
>indeed...friends with a human?
I even forgot to say anything about that! Remember "YOUR Hidden Years?"
Add to my longggg lists: *Anything* about the continuation of Dart and
Geoki's friendship! *Anything* about what Geoki teaches the tribe as he
grows up about the elves and acceptance!
>We all know how Strongbow feels about the
>five-fingers. I wonder if that incident inspired Blair to give Dart a
>boyfriend. And Tree, but Shushen was *beautiful*! Man alive, could
>*anyone* resist that face?
<snick> You mean, someone noticed his *face?* <chuckle>
>>As do I...I find that the male artist with an admiration (sexual or not) for
>>the male body can draw a man that...wellllll...beats Wendy's men any day. I
>>know, as a female who tries to draw men (that is, paint them, not attract
>>them), that making them look beautiful and masculine both is really
>>difficult...maybe for Wendy too.
>Could be...Elflord and Elfheim, and Elflore as well, are all highly
>homoerotic and involve some fairly clear homosexual relationships. Blair's
>elves are like little angels.
So what does he draw that looks like little devils? <smirk> His Tyldak
hints at another style. Maybe he could draw Vok...who always seemed kind of
devilish to me.
>>>but I dislike his fight sequences, finding them laughably unrealistic
>>>(e.g. Mender's back-breaking scene, and that oft-used behind-the-back Kahvi
>>>stab--puh-leeze!).
>>I liked the stab but it IS overused and badly drawn. Blair has action down
>>but realism still slips through his fingers. Sigh.
>If I had my Elflords with me, Crone, I could show you the identical stab in
>an early issue, done by a dark-haired warrior elf named Hawk Erickson.
<chuckle> Yes...a move like that would obviously be a personal favorite of
the artist. Kind of like the now-infamous Riker kick to the jaw.
>And Crone...keep posting, you mad, impetuous fool. No one's sick of your
>traffic in the *least*. **HUGS** "We *will* fluff alt.comics.elfquest!" :)
"Fluff?" "Fluff?!?" How...how...*femme!* <<Oh, my, heaven forbid.
Something mildly feminine.>> Hey, *you're* supposed to be the man around
here, remember, Dixon? <<Yes...and?>> Well...well...you're supposed to
agree with me! <<If I agreed with you, I wouldn't *be* you, now would I?>>
Uh...you're confusing me.
Anyway--thank you everyone for the moral support. I am mostly
afraid of intimidating lurkers or making Drew so sick an' tired that he
disappears again...sigh. But I will avoid such self-pitying cries for
attention in the future! Really! I mean it! :)
Crone
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>"None shall bow, no elf shall bow head to another, not even to a chief, not
>>even to me." --Swift-Spear
>P.S. Killer quote!
No...survivor quote. Killer quote is...oh, wait. I'm not supposed to call
her that anymore, am I, Dreamsinger? ;>
Crone
Matti Mikael M [nk|
>Crone wrote:
>
>>I could see Strongbow going entirely insane if he lost Moonshade like that.
>>He'd snap. Crack.
>
>Excellent point!
Oh?
Anyone putting an arrow in my kidbrother, and...
No mercy...
not even for the killer's family's infants...
if anyone put an arrow in one of my closest frends...
...I might let those infants live (without torturing them)
>Exactly. Hey, Crone, we're each other's cheerleader! :)
How did that happen? :-o
>boyfriend. And Tree, but Shushen was *beautiful*! Man alive, could
>*anyone* resist that face?
Dare I claim to be one of those who could...?
Yes, I'm heartless and feelingless and calculating type of man enough
not to let beauty affect myself. I think. (No smiling smileys :-I )
>And Crone...keep posting, you mad, impetuous fool. No one's sick of your
>traffic in the *least*. **HUGS** "We *will* fluff alt.comics.elfquest!" :)
>
>Drewcifer
I agree, keep posting... :-) (Well this one is smiling....)
Tree of Schnopia
>>>I could see Strongbow going entirely insane if he lost Moonshade like that.
>>>He'd snap. Crack.
>>
>>Excellent point!
>Oh?
>Anyone putting an arrow in my kidbrother, and...
>No mercy...
> not even for the killer's family's infants...
>if anyone put an arrow in one of my closest frends...
>...I might let those infants live (without torturing them)
So you're agreeing with us. Whence the "Oh?"
>>Exactly. Hey, Crone, we're each other's cheerleader! :)
>How did that happen? :-o
Well, you know...the uniforms, the pompoms...once you start, the enthusiasm
is infectious. :)
But seriously...check out our e-mail addresses. If I were to disagree with
Crone, she'd tromp over from Towers, ring the Drama House doorbell, and
clock me a good one when I opened the door. :):):)
But *seriously* seriously...we're schnopic like that.
>>boyfriend. And Tree, but Shushen was *beautiful*! Man alive, could
>>*anyone* resist that face?
>Dare I claim to be one of those who could...?
>Yes, I'm heartless and feelingless and calculating type of man enough
>not to let beauty affect myself. I think. (No smiling smileys :-I )
Whoa, not me. I'm superficial and romantic and aesthetic type of man enough
to be bowled over every time by a pretty face. Lucky I'm also an idealistic
realist.
> El{m{n tarkoitus? Teist{ muista en tied{, mutta min{ etsin
> el{m{n Perimm{ist{, Suurta Totuutta, jonka olemassaolosta
> tied{n vain sen, ettei sit{ ole olemassa. Ymm{rr{n ja hyv{ksyn
> t{m{n, mutten anna sen lainkaan h{irit{ etsint{{ni.
Would it be rude to ask for a translation? I'm curious (red).
Drewcifer
Tree of Schnopia
>>Exactly. Hey, Crone, we're each other's cheerleader! :)
>Frightening thought, isn't it?
I think it's cute.
>>We all know how Strongbow feels about the
>>five-fingers. I wonder if that incident inspired Blair to give Dart a
>>boyfriend. And Tree, but Shushen was *beautiful*! Man alive, could
>>*anyone* resist that face?
><snick> You mean, someone noticed his *face?* <chuckle>
Faces are first for me every time. I didn't get much farther. The eyes
alone are to die for.
>>And Crone...keep posting, you mad, impetuous fool. No one's sick of your
>>traffic in the *least*. **HUGS** "We *will* fluff alt.comics.elfquest!" :)
>"Fluff?" "Fluff?!?" How...how...*femme!* <<Oh, my, heaven forbid.
>Something mildly feminine.>> Hey, *you're* supposed to be the man around
>here, remember, Dixon? <<Yes...and?>> Well...well...you're supposed to
>agree with me! <<If I agreed with you, I wouldn't *be* you, now would I?>>
>Uh...you're confusing me.
My Tree! *You* have an alter ego as well! And a different notation! {Are
you saying *I* can't do that, too?} Well, it's not so much an alter ego as
a mood, Twist... {Mood, my left nipple!} But we're not male/female...
{What, you want male/female versions of an androgynous name like Drew? I
suppose you think I should be Andrea! Nothing doing, partner. If you can
be sexually ambiguous, so can I. And, to be honest, you're using the name
that sounds more malevolent.} But evil is subtle, Twist. Anyway, Lucifer
was the angel's name. Perhaps you want a pun on Satan, or Asmodeus, or
Mephistopheles. {Oh, bite me. I'm outta here. Here's some dynamite down
your pants.}
Twist has left the building. Big surprise there.
> Anyway--thank you everyone for the moral support. I am mostly
>afraid of intimidating lurkers or making Drew so sick an' tired that he
>disappears again...sigh. But I will avoid such self-pitying cries for
>attention in the future! Really! I mean it! :)
I never disappeared on account o' you...Twist bitched you out one day for
implying that I was lazy, but I've reprimanded him thoroughly. {Some of us
think we're the parents of others of us, it seems.} Oh, bite me, it's fun!
No, Crone, you go right ahead. Often there will be highly vocal posters to
a newsgroup, who will, far from killing discussion, will perpetuate and
stimulate it. And to lurkers everywhere...come on out where we can see ya!
Join the crowd! "It's great! You can have a gun if you want, and there's
money in it (not the gun)."
Drewcifer {and the Twist} ("one is a genius, the other's insane!")
Erkka Sutinen
Spoiler alert, all of the books.
There is one line in Book 8, Kings of the broken wheel I have always mis-read,
but just recently noticed my error. On page 35, page 5 on issue 6 of the
original series of KotBW, where Aroree meets Kahvi seeking Skywise, Kahvi
refers to him saying 'Seems we both know that young frost-haired one who
likes bundling up in threes'. And yes, he had three mates at last page of
issue 5 of original series and on 'dance' at the Go-back's lodge, he also seems
to have three mates, but that is less clear situation.
Now, I guess this means that he wants just lust, joy and good wrestle in the
furs, as Kahvi put it. Is this then the reason he and Aroree are a bit distant.
Also as Cutter said on 'Right of Passage' on the Hidden Years 'You and Aroree
don't keep just to yourselves.' It may also be mutual agreement 'no strings
attached' - relationship. Also his relationship with Foxfur, as seen on
'Starfall, Starraise' also on HY, seems to be very physical, and she calls
him 'lovemate'. Were they recognized at all?
Hm. Skywise seems to an stereotyped male, jumping from flower to flower never
stopping to love.
> But it's not. these are comics. It's up to WaRP, the storyline of which is
> firstly written by Richard and secondly by Wendy. Richard is a man and it
> would just suck if the woman left and got a life without the help of the
> manly beasts or his personal persona stargazer. Wendy, I sense, is a little
> sentimental and perhaps she feels a little for Skywise...maybe she won't
> give up on this thing, or can't convince Richard to.
Yes indeed Skywise as a parallel to Richard Pini, as stated on Gatherums.
I wonder... is this image of Skywise we see a way Richard Pini sees himself
or how Wendy sees her husband. Or both. Internal discussion of an married
couple in front of a million readers? Interesting thought.
> I feel as if no one grew much while Cutter was "counting," becoming "human."
> Anyone for the defense? The prosecution rests.
I didn't quite catch the point. If you mean that the rest of WR didn't change,
grow inside, learn, then why should they have? Since there was nothing special
going on they just live in 'the now of wolf thought', as they have lived before
the Quest. Problem with Cutter was that he couldn't. That he wasn't Wolfrider
any more. Others were, and I suppose that rest of the tribe, those not
originally wolfriders, just adopted the Way of their social enviroment.
(Re-reading 'Getting bent', Wendy Pini's article from Gatherum 2, and seeing
an glimpse of something larger than me.)
>>>--Layla
> Crone
--
======================================#=======================================
Erkka Pietari Sutinen # Eke what availeth Maner and Gentlinesse
e...@rieska.oulu.fi / sut...@csc.fi # Without yow, benygne creature?
University of Oulu. Finland # Shal Cruelte be your governesse?
Dep. of Information Prosessing Science# -Chaucher
Jennifer Eastman
In article <1994Jan16.2...@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, dm0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Crone) writes:
|> Anyway--thank you everyone for the moral support. I am mostly
|> afraid of intimidating lurkers or making Drew so sick an' tired that he
|> disappears again...sigh. But I will avoid such self-pitying cries for
|> attention in the future! Really! I mean it! :)
Well, here's one lurker who isn't intimidated. I rather enjoy your posts,
myself... :)
ObligEQ: Has anyone emailed (or talked to) Richard to find out *why on Abode*
was Newstar tied up? I really want to know the reasoning behind this...
Maybe I'll do it myself... :)
|>
|> Crone
|>
- Jen
--
for best results machine wash cold, tumble dry low. do not bleach, etc, etc.
for not-so-best results drag behind car through puddles and dry on roof rack.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Eastman j...@ll.mit.edu jenn...@lynx.dac.neu.edu
Crone
>>Frightening thought, isn't it?
>I think it's cute.
Bwahaha. See, my loveydoveyness is infectious...
>>>boyfriend. And Tree, but Shushen was *beautiful*! Man alive, could
>>>*anyone* resist that face?
>><snick> You mean, someone noticed his *face?* <chuckle>
>Faces are first for me every time. I didn't get much farther. The eyes
>alone are to die for.
In the elves, yes...my first sight of Nightfall was all I needed. (But
then, I've been attracted to some strange ones when it comes to Elfquest.)
>>"Fluff?" "Fluff?!?" How...how...*femme!* <<Oh, my, heaven forbid.
>>Something mildly feminine.>> Hey, *you're* supposed to be the man around
>>here, remember, Dixon? <<Yes...and?>> Well...well...you're supposed to
>>agree with me! <<If I agreed with you, I wouldn't *be* you, now would I?>>
>>Uh...you're confusing me.
>My Tree! *You* have an alter ego as well!
Well...there's a third, but the creature/beast name-not-no-be-shared (no
offense) can't type. We don't hear much from the creature, anyhow. The
occasional growl or "mrnk" of contentment. :>
>And a different notation! {Are
>you saying *I* can't do that, too?}
No, he's just saying you hadn't thought of it yet. <<Please, please, please
don't get into this with him.>> Why not? Love will conquer all. <<Help
me, please. I need a new apartment. This one is driving me nuts.>> Dixon,
you're welcome, stupid. You're me, remember? So we have to include you,
moron. <<Oh.>> Right? <<Yeah.>> Do you understand? <<Uh...sure. Hey,
I'm gonna go take a rest, ok? My head hurts.>>
>Well, it's not so much an alter ego as
>a mood, Twist... {Mood, my left nipple!} But we're not male/female...
>{What, you want male/female versions of an androgynous name like Drew? I
>suppose you think I should be Andrea! Nothing doing, partner. If you can
>be sexually ambiguous, so can I. And, to be honest, you're using the name
>that sounds more malevolent.}
Well, Asimov fans, I'd say someone named "Twist" is definitely more
likely to be *immediately* damaging than a simple morning star.
Really, guys, you're more like friendly/malevolent. Me and Dixon,
see, we're both malevolent.
>But evil is subtle, Twist. Anyway, Lucifer
>was the angel's name. Perhaps you want a pun on Satan, or Asmodeus, or
>Mephistopheles. {Oh, bite me. I'm outta here. Here's some dynamite down
>your pants.}
Friendly chap, isn't he? We're really discussing EQ here, aren't we?
>Twist has left the building. Big surprise there.
>> Anyway--thank you everyone for the moral support. I am mostly
>>afraid of intimidating lurkers or making Drew so sick an' tired that he
>>disappears again...sigh. But I will avoid such self-pitying cries for
>>attention in the future! Really! I mean it! :)
>I never disappeared on account o' you...Twist bitched you out one day for
>implying that I was lazy, but I've reprimanded him thoroughly. {Some of us
>think we're the parents of others of us, it seems.} Oh, bite me, it's fun!
Being the parants of others of ourselves or the Net? <smirk>
>No, Crone, you go right ahead. Often there will be highly vocal posters to
>a newsgroup, who will, far from killing discussion, will perpetuate and
>stimulate it. And to lurkers everywhere...come on out where we can see ya!
>Join the crowd! "It's great! You can have a gun if you want, and there's
>money in it (not the gun)."
No. In the dynamite.
>Drewcifer {and the Twist} ("one is a genius, the other's insane!")
Yeh, but which?
*******************************************************************************
pIch vIghajbe' 'ach jIcharghpu' ("It's not my fault; however, I won")
When I am a crone/I will dance with old women/and their sons/in a small town/on
the western fringe of Louisiana./Cotton skirts and leather heeled boots/tapping
two-steps in time/to the great age./From beyond Texas/we hear thunder/and sing
to each other/"the rain comes soon"/When I am a crone.
Crone <<Forgetting something? --Dixon>> dm0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
*******************************************************************************
Crone
>Spoiler alert, all of the books.
Space removed cuz really...if you're so concerned you wouldn't read it.
you'd hit 'n' now and move on. I saw nothing more recent than November in
here.
>There is one line in Book 8, Kings of the broken wheel I have always mis-read,
>but just recently noticed my error. On page 35, page 5 on issue 6 of the
>original series of KotBW, where Aroree meets Kahvi seeking Skywise, Kahvi
>refers to him saying 'Seems we both know that young frost-haired one who
>likes bundling up in threes'. And yes, he had three mates at last page of
>issue 5 of original series and on 'dance' at the Go-back's lodge, he also seems
>to have three mates, but that is less clear situation.
Really. I think Pike nests in threes more than anyone--and he's not so
picky about what sexes those threes are. But the quote is there.
>Now, I guess this means that he wants just lust, joy and good wrestle in the
>furs, as Kahvi put it. Is this then the reason he and Aroree are a bit distant.
I don't think so. Aroree has the same feeling sexually--variety is the
spice...she's got nothing against denning with anyone for a night. I'm more
concerned with where her heart is. As well as Skywise's.
>[realtionship between Skywise & Foxfur], seems to be very physical, and she calls
>him 'lovemate'. Were they recognized at all?
I dunno. All you out there with the <gag, choke> RPG and other stuff--any
comments? As for their relationship--I was under the impression that it was
pretty monogamous...and I've always had the feeling that Skywise is
unconsciously looking for Foxfur all over again. I don't think he's ready
to accept someone different into his heart (except Cutter who was, after
all, there from the start). Which makes me wonder about him and the Palace.
(No more rhyming! I really mean it!)
>Hm. Skywise seems to an stereotyped male, jumping from flower to flower never
>stopping to love.
Duh. And I just LOOOOOVVE Ricky (Richard) for it. Skywise lost once. He's
scared to lose again. Like Cutter, he wants to live safe. they both need
knocked off a high branch.
>> But it's not. these are comics. It's up to WaRP, the storyline of which is
>> firstly written by Richard and secondly by Wendy. Richard is a man and it
>> would just suck if the woman left and got a life without the help of the
>> manly beasts or his personal persona stargazer. Wendy, I sense, is a little
>> sentimental and perhaps she feels a little for Skywise...maybe she won't
>> give up on this thing, or can't convince Richard to.
>I wonder... is this image of Skywise we see a way Richard Pini sees himself
>or how Wendy sees her husband. Or both. Internal discussion of an married
>couple in front of a million readers? Interesting thought.
I think it must not be (since Skywise has stayed loyal to Cutter (and
Leetah), that is, Wendy). And if it was--as little credit I give Wendy for
thinking for herself, I think she might have had something to say if she
thought Richard was really such a bedbouncer. :)
>> I feel as if no one grew much while Cutter was "counting," becoming "human."
>> Anyone for the defense? The prosecution rests.
>I didn't quite catch the point. If you mean that the rest of WR didn't change,
>grow inside, learn, then why should they have? Since there was nothing special
>going on they just live in 'the now of wolf thought', as they have lived before
>the Quest. Problem with Cutter was that he couldn't. That he wasn't Wolfrider
>any more. Others were, and I suppose that rest of the tribe, those not
>originally wolfriders, just adopted the Way of their social enviroment.
Uh-huh. But there was a lot of time there...and I'm assuming that there
were more events than just Patch. Even for the Safety Squad that the Holt
became--*something* had to happen. Tree (AHHHH! It's contagious!), even
Picky grew. Of course, "he lost too." Well, hear this. The Holt did not
become the Safety Squad and stagnate instantaneously. Let's see it
happening.
What I mostly meant was that WaRP and their minions (or masters, in
the case of Blair) seem to have lost the 'feel' for a lot of the aging
Wolfriders. They've gotten older and more worldly if nothing else. But
WaRP hasn't *had* eight eights times eight to mature. They haven't grown
*with* their work.
<<You're aching, aren't you. You're blasting something you try
against trying to be loyal to.>>
Oh, get in the ring, Dixon. Same to all of you. Let's move the
mountain.
>>>>--Layla
>> Crone
Crone
Crone
>>>>He'd snap. Crack.
>>>
>>>Excellent point!
>>Oh?
>>Anyone putting an arrow in my kidbrother, and...
>>No mercy...
>> not even for the killer's family's infants...
>>if anyone put an arrow in one of my closest frends...
>>...I might let those infants live (without torturing them)
<<Here we go again, folks.>>
That's gotta be 3m's voice. Who else is so full of vengeance that he's
forgotten how to hunt for his belly rather than his wall? And who's
"kidbrother" are we talking about, anyhow? I think it's simple enough *at
least* to see that Dart and ShuShen aren't blood. Hm. There must have been
an edit here that impedes understanding.
Sigh. It's stuff like this that causes tribes to die. BUT THEN,
THIS *IS* COMING FROM ONE OF SKYFIRE'S BLOODBROTHERS, *ISN'T* IT? I knew
what to expect. "I don't need your civil war..."
No offense meant, of course. If we could just forget about who
killed who, I'm sure we'd all get along. But some people have problems with
acquiring the amnesia necessary to live Now properly. :>
<<I warned you.>>
>So you're agreeing with us. Whence the "Oh?"
With you, that would be, Cifer.
>>>Exactly. Hey, Crone, we're each other's cheerleader! :)
>>How did that happen? :-o
>Well, you know...the uniforms, the pompoms...once you start, the enthusiasm
>is infectious. :)
<grin> Yeah, true. Plus, I'm enjoying life...and I'm trying to seep my
loveydovey enthusiasm into Drewcifer as well.
>But seriously...check out our e-mail addresses. If I were to disagree with
>Crone, she'd tromp over from Towers, ring the Drama House doorbell, and
>clock me a good one when I opened the door. :):):)
<chuckle> You BET I would! Actually, I'd probably hug him, say, "How could
you possibly show me up like that, you bastard!" And ask if he wants to go
to Douglass for dinner.
>But *seriously* seriously...we're schnopic like that.
<SNICK SNICK SNICKER!> What the fritz does that *mean* anyhow? What is it
"to schnope?"
>>>boyfriend. And Tree, but Shushen was *beautiful*! Man alive, could
>>>*anyone* resist that face?
>>Dare I claim to be one of those who could...?
>>Yes, I'm heartless and feelingless and calculating type of man enough
>>not to let beauty affect myself. I think. (No smiling smileys :-I )
>Whoa, not me. I'm superficial and romantic and aesthetic type of man enough
>to be bowled over every time by a pretty face. Lucky I'm also an idealistic
>realist.
As I said--Someone noticed his *face?*
>Would it be rude to ask for a translation? I'm curious (red).
You missed it back when you weren't reading--but I'm sure he'll elm it to
you. <smirk> If not, I can be bribed...
Crone
Tree of Schnopia
>>So you're agreeing with us. Whence the "Oh?"
>With you, that would be, Cifer.
Oopsie! Sorry. Didn't mean to implicate ya.
>>Well, you know...the uniforms, the pompoms...once you start, the enthusiasm
>>is infectious. :)
><grin> Yeah, true. Plus, I'm enjoying life...and I'm trying to seep my
>loveydovey enthusiasm into Drewcifer as well.
It'd work if I weren't so accursedly single! :)
>>But seriously...check out our e-mail addresses. If I were to disagree with
>>Crone, she'd tromp over from Towers, ring the Drama House doorbell, and
>>clock me a good one when I opened the door. :):):)
><chuckle> You BET I would! Actually, I'd probably hug him, say, "How could
>you possibly show me up like that, you bastard!" And ask if he wants to go
>to Douglass for dinner.
Hee hee! I'd say, "yes, why, I *love* rubber roast beef and hopelessly raw
grillburgers." I mean, there's bad food and then there's U of R chow.
What's the worst is it masquerades as real food. On most campuses you
*know* it's crap. Colgate is nice, though...
>>But *seriously* seriously...we're schnopic like that.
><SNICK SNICK SNICKER!> What the fritz does that *mean* anyhow? What is it
>"to schnope?"
Haven't I sent you the Schnopic Manifesto? Serenity, Nature, and Truth. If
you schnope, you're relaxing and speaking your true feelings. Probably
under a tree or naked in the water.
>You missed it back when you weren't reading--but I'm sure he'll elm it to
>you. <smirk> If not, I can be bribed...
Oh, but, Crone, wouldn't somebody kill me? ;)
And is Sean cute? And if somebody comes to visit you, will she bring him?
Please? ;)
Drewcifer
--
---- Andrew D. Simchik, as0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, Tree of Schnopia
\ ---- Drewcifer says "?" {The Twist says "!"}
\\bi/ "D'fer and the Twist, they're D'fer and the Twist,"
\/ "One is a nice guy--the other's just pissed..."
Tree of Schnopia
>>Well, it's not so much an alter ego as
>>a mood, Twist... {Mood, my left nipple!} But we're not male/female...
>>{What, you want male/female versions of an androgynous name like Drew? I
>>suppose you think I should be Andrea! Nothing doing, partner. If you can
>>be sexually ambiguous, so can I. And, to be honest, you're using the name
>>that sounds more malevolent.}
>Well, Asimov fans, I'd say someone named "Twist" is definitely more
>likely to be *immediately* damaging than a simple morning star.
I don't read hard sf. What's the reference?
> Really, guys, you're more like friendly/malevolent. Me and Dixon,
>see, we're both malevolent.
Hee!
>>But evil is subtle, Twist. Anyway, Lucifer
>>was the angel's name. Perhaps you want a pun on Satan, or Asmodeus, or
>>Mephistopheles. {Oh, bite me. I'm outta here. Here's some dynamite down
>>your pants.}
>Friendly chap, isn't he? We're really discussing EQ here, aren't we?
Oh, of course!
>>Drewcifer {and the Twist} ("one is a genius, the other's insane!")
>Yeh, but which?
That's the joke, you see. They're both both.
Drewcifer
--
---- Andrew D. Simchik, as0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, Tree of Schnopia
Matti Mikael M [nk|
>So you're agreeing with us. Whence the "Oh?"
Just pointing that there are other persons (than just love/lifemates)
whose death would make one kill and kill and kill...
Yes, I admit that's the way serious shit begins to happen.
But You must admit that no-one is supposed to feel very "cool"
if someone important to them is killed deliberately in front
of their eyes...
But if someone wants to do real vendetta, one must think and act
without heart's anger/hate...
But then after all... "If You want revenge, You'll have to dig
two graves" (Mr. Bond in "For Your eyes Only")
>>>boyfriend. And Tree, but Shushen was *beautiful*! Man alive, could
>>>*anyone* resist that face?
>>Dare I claim to be one of those who could...?
>>Yes, I'm heartless and feelingless and calculating type of man enough
>>not to let beauty affect myself. I think. (No smiling smileys :-I )
>Whoa, not me. I'm superficial and romantic and aesthetic type of man enough
>to be bowled over every time by a pretty face. Lucky I'm also an idealistic
>realist.
"Why there are so many old cynics in the world?"
"Old cynics live longer."
:-)
3m
(not yet that old, but already cynic...)
--
Cabaret bar Satellite
: >I was referring to Dart's quick friendship with Geoki. Sensitive,
: >indeed...friends with a human?
: I even forgot to say anything about that! Remember "YOUR Hidden Years?"
: Add to my longggg lists: *Anything* about the continuation of Dart and
: Geoki's friendship! *Anything* about what Geoki teaches the tribe as he
: grows up about the elves and acceptance!
Seconded. Whew, that'll make quite a list. Do you think if we
mailbomb Richard Pini long enough with it, we might get an answer?
: >>>but I dislike his fight sequences, finding them laughably unrealistic
: >>>(e.g. Mender's back-breaking scene, and that oft-used behind-the-back Kahvi
: >>>stab--puh-leeze!).
: >>I liked the stab but it IS overused and badly drawn. Blair has action down
: >>but realism still slips through his fingers. Sigh.
: >If I had my Elflords with me, Crone, I could show you the identical stab in
: >an early issue, done by a dark-haired warrior elf named Hawk Erickson.
: <chuckle> Yes...a move like that would obviously be a personal favorite of
: the artist. Kind of like the now-infamous Riker kick to the jaw.
Maybe Blair watched too much "Lethal Weapon" and Van Damme movies...
: >And Crone...keep posting, you mad, impetuous fool. No one's sick of your
: >traffic in the *least*. **HUGS** "We *will* fluff alt.comics.elfquest!" :)
This time *I* am not the one who calls you "mad"... 8-)
: >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: >>"None shall bow, no elf shall bow head to another, not even to a chief, not
: >>even to me." --Swift-Spear
: >P.S. Killer quote!
: No...survivor quote. Killer quote is...oh, wait. I'm not supposed to call
: her that anymore, am I, Dreamsinger? ;>
I suppose this is referring to me... Well, you do what you want,
Crone, my dear. Just remember that anything you may post could be held
against you in a future flamewar... 8-)
"It's fuel to my fire"
: Crone
"Fire in Harmony!.." Alias
-----
"We need the songsmith" (Magellan)
Stephane "Alias" GALLAY, sate...@di.epfl.ch
Cabaret bar Satellite
: Really. I think Pike nests in threes more than anyone--and he's not so
: picky about what sexes those threes are. But the quote is there.
Three-way mating seems to be, if not common, at least "socially
acceptable" (PC?..) among Wolfriders and Sun Folk. Maybe it's something
different for the Go-Backs, and Kahvi's quote could be considered as a
rather elaborate way to say "Skywise is a pervert"...
Just a thought...
: >[realtionship between Skywise & Foxfur], seems to be very physical, and she calls
: >him 'lovemate'. Were they recognized at all?
: I dunno. All you out there with the <gag, choke> RPG and other stuff--any
: comments? As for their relationship--I was under the impression that it was
: pretty monogamous...and I've always had the feeling that Skywise is
: unconsciously looking for Foxfur all over again. I don't think he's ready
: to accept someone different into his heart (except Cutter who was, after
: all, there from the start). Which makes me wonder about him and the Palace.
: (No more rhyming! I really mean it!)
The trouble with Foxfur is, we don't really see the two of them
but in two places: ElfQuest #4 (B/W original serie) and Hidden Years #5
(or was it #4? whatever...). Anyway, I am under the impression that they
were not recognized. One reason: even though Skywise is Cutter's elder,
he's still very young. And it seems like Recognition is something that
waits for some time before springing into action (cf. Joyleaf & Bearclaw,
Toorah & Sun-Toucher, etc.); Leetah & Cutter are something of an exception
(in Cutter's POV).
Maybe in his constant fluttering, Skywise is still trying to find
his heart's content. And maybe this 'perfect mate' is the image of Foxfur.
But we should look inside his head and soul to be sure, since there aren't
too many hints in the stories...
: I think it must not be (since Skywise has stayed loyal to Cutter (and
: Leetah), that is, Wendy). And if it was--as little credit I give Wendy for
: thinking for herself, I think she might have had something to say if she
: thought Richard was really such a bedbouncer. :)
Quite recently (I think somewhere right after SaBM), Wendy declared
that she'd changed her "identification" from Cutter to Kahvi. Maybe we're
wrong to consider Skywise still as "Richard's elf". He may not be anymore
(then who? my personal guess goes to Treestump... 8-)).
: Crone
And there we go again in the circus of argument... 8-)
"Fire in Harmony!.." Alias
------
"And now a message from our sponsor, the Algerian Tourism Office..:"
*BLAM*
"Thank you..." (Les Guignols de l'Info)
Stephane "Alias" GALLAY, sate...@di.epfl.ch
Cabaret bar Satellite
: Layla wrote:
: > And Mender's
: >reaction was...interesting. I don't like him much. I find
: >him awfully bloodthirsty--the kind of bloodthirstiness that
: >comes from people who watch others spill blood, and love to
: >egg them on without running a risk themselves. I noticed
: >this particularly in Hidden Years 9 1/2, when the elves are all
: >watching the fight at the end, and even Skywise and Ember are
: >rather horrified, Mender is still grinning like he thinks this
: >is the greatest thing ever.
: Don't be too hard on him. Mender is still young. He hadn't
: lived with Wolfriders before. He is not used to the Pack-law
: and the War has been his only(?) experience about violent
: action. And he is so hot-headed about being a Wolfrider and
: admiring Cutter (HY#4). And because he is sort of "newbie"
: among them, he overacts.
: But yes: sometimes he overacts too much...
I'll second that motion. The lad's still very young. Think,
Dart IS young, and Mender's probably ten years younger. If anything,
he must roughly be the same age as Ember.
Wonder where he got that bad habit of hurting people with
his healing powers, though... Well, at least he hasn't black hair... 8-)
: I'm sure he'll calm down when he grows up. I hope.
Hmmm... With Ember on his side? Quite a match, those two! I
wonder who will kill the other one first...
: >--Layla
On an even less serious note (I'm quite frolicky, this morning...),
Mender reminds me of those Swiss veterans in "Asterix in Switzerland":
bashing people senseless, then healing them...
Oh well...
: 3m
"Fire in Harmony!.." Alias
-----
"The Holiday Inn shelled in Sarajevo: another terrible blow for tourism in
Yugoslavia..." (Les Guignols de l'Info)
Stephane "Alias" GALLAY, sate...@di.epfl.ch
Tree of Schnopia
>Just pointing that there are other persons (than just love/lifemates)
>whose death would make one kill and kill and kill...
Ah. I see. So Shushen is Dart's...brother? No. Blood relation in any
direct way? No. "Just a close friend"..."longtime companion"...right. I
think it's clear what's going on here. Especially where Blair's involved.
You can say what you like about canon, but in these issues of New Blood,
Dart and Shushen were, physically as well or just emotionally, lovers.
Twist (who doesn't need special characters when he does a whole post)
--
---- Andrew D. Simchik, as0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, Tree of Schnopia
Crone
>>whose death would make one kill and kill and kill...
<<I haven't seen this post yet. I will be sure to say something.>>
>Ah. I see. So Shushen is Dart's...brother? No. Blood relation in any
>direct way? No. "Just a close friend"..."longtime companion"...right. I
>think it's clear what's going on here. Especially where Blair's involved.
>You can say what you like about canon, but in these issues of New Blood,
>Dart and Shushen were, physically as well or just emotionally, lovers.
<<It has to be clear. I think you should proofread, Twist. I believe you
meant "physically as well as just emotionally, lovers." I would not
consider it to be going overly far to call them lovemates, even where Blair
is concerned. They seemed to have something fairly permanent, socially
and emotionally. <After hearing of the dances of the Village, I choose not
to speak of physical faith.> This, of course, would be something you
ignore.
<<It is obvious, however. Dart and Shushen <ShuShen?> were very
close and I wonder how much of Shushen's death has made it so easy for Dart
to pick up and leave a place which must have some unpleasant associations.>>
>Twist (who doesn't need special characters when he does a whole post)
<<I choose definition. Hm. I believe I will have to do something about
that finger-name.>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Twenty-eight young men bathe by the shore,
Twenty-eight young men and all so friendly;
Twenty-eight years of womanly life and all so lonesome. --Walt Whitman
<<Dixon>> Crone dm0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crone <<Dixon>>
>: picky about what sexes those threes are. But the quote is there.
> Three-way mating seems to be, if not common, at least "socially
>acceptable" (PC?..) among Wolfriders and Sun Folk. Maybe it's something
>different for the Go-Backs, and Kahvi's quote could be considered as a
>rather elaborate way to say "Skywise is a pervert"...
I doubt it. I will someday soon have the famous scene in my
possession...and I can honestly say that I remember that the Go-Backs seemed
to think pleasure of any kind was pleasure...and therefore, acceptable.
Now, then. It's also apparent that the Go-Backs don't think much of
monogamy. So "three in the furs" is amusing...but a "threemating," which
implies some permanence, is ridiculous. monogamy indicates faith that life
will go on...and among the Go-Backs, it often just doesn't. Same for
lifemating or even lovemating with any sense of permanence.
>: >[realtionship between Skywise & Foxfur], seems to be very physical, and she calls
>: >him 'lovemate'. Were they recognized at all?
>: I dunno. All you out there with the <gag, choke> RPG and other stuff--any
>: comments? As for their relationship--I was under the impression that it was
>: pretty monogamous...and I've always had the feeling that Skywise is
>: unconsciously looking for Foxfur all over again. I don't think he's ready
>: to accept someone different into his heart (except Cutter who was, after
>: all, there from the start). Which makes me wonder about him and the Palace.
>: (No more rhyming! I really mean it!)
> The trouble with Foxfur is, we don't really see the two of them
>but in two places: ElfQuest #4 (B/W original serie) and Hidden Years #5
>(or was it #4? whatever...). Anyway, I am under the impression that they
>were not recognized. One reason: even though Skywise is Cutter's elder,
>he's still very young. And it seems like Recognition is something that
>waits for some time before springing into action (cf. Joyleaf & Bearclaw,
>Toorah & Sun-Toucher, etc.); Leetah & Cutter are something of an exception
>(in Cutter's POV).
That would imply Tyldak and Dewy as an exception, too...and Zarhan and just
about everybody...No...I think Recognition holds off when it knows there
will be time for the two to get to know each other. When there's no
guaruntee that the elves will know each other long--like if one might leave
soon--it jumps into action.
> Maybe in his constant fluttering, Skywise is still trying to find
>his heart's content. And maybe this 'perfect mate' is the image of Foxfur.
>But we should look inside his head and soul to be sure, since there aren't
>too many hints in the stories...
Ok. Anyone going to bring me his head (on a platter) and his soul (in a
shard of Palace)?
>: I think it must not be (since Skywise has stayed loyal to Cutter (and
>: Leetah), that is, Wendy). And if it was--as little credit I give Wendy for
>: thinking for herself, I think she might have had something to say if she
>: thought Richard was really such a bedbouncer. :)
> Quite recently (I think somewhere right after SaBM), Wendy declared
>that she'd changed her "identification" from Cutter to Kahvi. Maybe we're
>wrong to consider Skywise still as "Richard's elf". He may not be anymore
>(then who? my personal guess goes to Treestump... 8-)).
Treestump is too smart. :) Wendy? Kahvi? Ehhhh....no. Can't see it.
But you never know, maybe Wendy is a treacherous liar with a soft heart for
overgrown bats...
>: Crone
> And there we go again in the circus of argument... 8-)
Crone again
> "Fire in Harmony!.." Alias
Crone <<Dixon>>
>he must roughly be the same age as Ember.
> Wonder where he got that bad habit of hurting people with
>his healing powers, though... Well, at least he hasn't black hair... 8-)
Well...where did Leetah get that habit? I say more power to 'em. Survival
of the strongest. (I'm turning into a Nomadic.)
>: I'm sure he'll calm down when he grows up. I hope.
I hope NOT! Calm healers are like sane psychiatrists. Mundane.
> Hmmm... With Ember on his side? Quite a match, those two! I
>wonder who will kill the other one first...
I think we'll see the conflict of interest (Mender idolizes Cutter; Ember
will take over at some point and I ain't convinced she'll do it nicely)
before we see either of them draw blades.
Crone
Crone <<Dixon>>
>: >indeed...friends with a human?
>: I even forgot to say anything about that! Remember "YOUR Hidden Years?"
>: Add to my longggg lists: *Anything* about the continuation of Dart and
>: Geoki's friendship! *Anything* about what Geoki teaches the tribe as he
>: grows up about the elves and acceptance!
> Seconded. Whew, that'll make quite a list. Do you think if we
>mailbomb Richard Pini long enough with it, we might get an answer?
Maybe we just have material for the showdown, eh? Anyone to write? <Grin>
>: >>>but I dislike his fight sequences, finding them laughably unrealistic
>: >>>(e.g. Mender's back-breaking scene, and that oft-used behind-the-back Kahvi
>: >>>stab--puh-leeze!).
>: >>I liked the stab but it IS overused and badly drawn. Blair has action down
>: >>but realism still slips through his fingers. Sigh.
>: >If I had my Elflords with me, Crone, I could show you the identical stab in
>: >an early issue, done by a dark-haired warrior elf named Hawk Erickson.
>: <chuckle> Yes...a move like that would obviously be a personal favorite of
>: the artist. Kind of like the now-infamous Riker kick to the jaw.
> Maybe Blair watched too much "Lethal Weapon" and Van Damme movies...
Or too much Star Trek <Grin>
>: >And Crone...keep posting, you mad, impetuous fool. No one's sick of your
>: >traffic in the *least*. **HUGS** "We *will* fluff alt.comics.elfquest!" :)
> This time *I* am not the one who calls you "mad"... 8-)
Ah. I have yet to be insulted by being called mad in the sense of insane.
>: >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>: >>"None shall bow, no elf shall bow head to another, not even to a chief, not
>: >>even to me." --Swift-Spear
>: >P.S. Killer quote!
>: No...survivor quote. Killer quote is...oh, wait. I'm not supposed to call
>: her that anymore, am I, Dreamsinger? ;>
>
> I suppose this is referring to me... Well, you do what you want,
>Crone, my dear. Just remember that anything you may post could be held
>against you in a future flamewar... 8-)
I sent you enough heart for you to roast gently and thoughtfully, didn't I?
:)
Crone
>3m
Cabaret bar Satellite
[things deleted for diskspace's sake. To sum up, we were arguing about the
mechanisms of Recognition, and how it affects people of different age. I
said that it wasn't that common among young elves, and then Crone..:]
: That would imply Tyldak and Dewy as an exception, too...and Zarhan and just
: about everybody...No...I think Recognition holds off when it knows there
: will be time for the two to get to know each other. When there's no
: guaruntee that the elves will know each other long--like if one might leave
: soon--it jumps into action.
Tyldak and Dewshine fall into the same category as Cutter and Leetah:
two people of different tribe meeting for the first time.
Zahran is an exception all by himself: he's the only elf who ever
"forced" Recognition on others to satisfy his own needs.
: Crone again
"Fire in Harmony!.." Alias
----
"What do you mean 'the deadline is today'?.." (me, yesterday, 4pm)
Stephane "Alias" GALLAY, sate...@di.epfl.ch
Matti Mikael M [nk|
Crone wrote:
>That's gotta be 3m's voice. Who else is so full of vengeance that he's
>forgotten how to hunt for his belly rather than his wall? And who's
Well, my voice, but not completely mine...
There was something that shoke it's cage...
> Sigh. It's stuff like this that causes tribes to die. BUT THEN,
>THIS *IS* COMING FROM ONE OF SKYFIRE'S BLOODBROTHERS, *ISN'T* IT? I knew
>what to expect. "I don't need your civil war..."
Don't get her involved in this!
She's got nothing to with that monster I keep locked somewhere deep in
my mind. No I wouln't call it an alter ego, not even an alter id.
It just is and I'm not willing to study it any closer.
I'll just keep it locked and hided as well as I can...
It has no memory, no hate, no anger, no .......
It just is and I can't say I'm happy because of it's existence.
If it gets a chance to break out and take control it'll be beyong cruel...
I think we could call Winnowill harmless and helpless and no-danger-at-all...
And that civil war You feared...
I don't want it either...
<<<there can be no war if there is no-one left... no-one...>>>
(that was something from the deepness, but don't worry I'll keep
it locked. Well I'll try. Whatever shit happens I'll be trying...)
>>But seriously...check out our e-mail addresses. If I were to disagree with
>>Crone, she'd tromp over from Towers, ring the Drama House doorbell, and
>>clock me a good one when I opened the door. :):):)
So? Ok, I have it easier to disagree with her because I've more than
just an ocean between us? :-> (The great wisdom of foreing and
defencepolitics: keep Your frends close and enemies (far) away.)
>>Would it be rude to ask for a translation? I'm curious (red).
>
>You missed it back when you weren't reading--but I'm sure he'll elm it to
>you. <smirk> If not, I can be bribed...
>Crone
Sorry, Crone. I ruined Your chance to get bribed... :-)
3m
--
Crone
>Crone <<Dixon>> (dm0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu) wrote:
>[things deleted for diskspace's sake. To sum up, we were arguing about the
>mechanisms of Recognition, and how it affects people of different age. I
>said that it wasn't that common among young elves, and then Crone..:]
> Tyldak and Dewshine fall into the same category as Cutter and Leetah:
>two people of different tribe meeting for the first time.
> Zahran is an exception all by himself: he's the only elf who ever
>"forced" Recognition on others to satisfy his own needs.
That's "Zarhan," and yes, he's the only one we KNOW of...and he wasn't
conscious, for a long time, that he did force it. I'm not convinced he did
(Does anyone have a copy of BoTC WNP 5 for me???) force it at all. But he
did have more control over it--bringing it as well as stalling it--than any
other we know of. I don't know that there's so much shame in the power as
in the use and then, he wasn't, as I said, conscious.
I don't know that tribe makes the difference; I think that if two
bloods are good together (as happens more often between different tribes
than within a tribe), that Recognition might well take its "sweet time"
rather than stress both members out unless it's afraid that the pair will be
separated without it. (Really. Without Cutter and Leetah, how long would
the WR have really stayed in the Village? Come on.)
>: Crone again
And again
> "Fire in Harmony!.." Alias
Crone
>>That's gotta be 3m's voice. Who else is so full of vengeance that he's
>>forgotten how to hunt for his belly rather than his wall? And who's
>Well, my voice, but not completely mine...
>There was something that shoke it's cage...
Ok. I am admitting I have been an idiot. Despite my keeping a list of
posters to this group, I have confused our friend 3m with someone els.
Forgive me.
>She's got nothing to with that monster I keep locked somewhere deep in
>my mind. No I wouln't call it an alter ego, not even an alter id.
>It just is and I'm not willing to study it any closer.
>I'll just keep it locked and hided as well as I can...
>It has no memory, no hate, no anger, no .......
>It just is and I can't say I'm happy because of it's existence.
Man, that *sucks*! Can we help?
>And that civil war You feared...
>I don't want it either...
> <<<there can be no war if there is no-one left... no-one...>>>
>(that was something from the deepness, but don't worry I'll keep
>it locked. Well I'll try. Whatever shit happens I'll be trying...)
Hey, relax, we didn't mean to scare you.
>>>But seriously...check out our e-mail addresses. If I were to disagree with
>>>Crone, she'd tromp over from Towers, ring the Drama House doorbell, and
>>>clock me a good one when I opened the door. :):):)
>So? Ok, I have it easier to disagree with her because I've more than
>just an ocean between us? :-> (The great wisdom of foreing and
>defencepolitics: keep Your frends close and enemies (far) away.)
Hey, you're my friend too and you're as close as my computer!
>Sorry, Crone. I ruined Your chance to get bribed... :-)
Hey! No fair! That's all right, the bribe he mentioned was prettied-up
blackmail anyhow. :)
>3m
Crone
Tree of Schnopia
>Ok. I am admitting I have been an idiot. Despite my keeping a list of
>posters to this group, I have confused our friend 3m with someone els.
>Forgive me.
It happens to me all the time. Calm, everyone, stay Schnopic...
>>She's got nothing to with that monster I keep locked somewhere deep in
>>my mind. No I wouln't call it an alter ego, not even an alter id.
>>It just is and I'm not willing to study it any closer.
>>I'll just keep it locked and hided as well as I can...
>>It has no memory, no hate, no anger, no .......
>>It just is and I can't say I'm happy because of it's existence.
>Man, that *sucks*! Can we help?
Help? That sounds a lot like Twist! {Fuck off and die.} Kiss, kiss.
>>Sorry, Crone. I ruined Your chance to get bribed... :-)
>Hey! No fair! That's all right, the bribe he mentioned was prettied-up
>blackmail anyhow. :)
Oh? Thinkst thou that thou hast power over me? Just try it, my dear!
;)
Drewcifer
--
---- Andrew D. Simchik, as0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu, Tree of Schnopia
Sam Lowry
>"forced" Recognition on others to satisfy his own needs.
Huh?...scratch head...ponder for a moment...Where does it say that Zahran
forced Recognition onto others? I don't remember that interpretation of
the events...I DO remember that he DID Rcognize many elves...and his
relationship with "She-wolf" was strained for that and other reasons,
but "Forced"...hum...help me out here.
-Babylon-
.> >: Crone again > > "Fire in
Sam Lowry
fans on the east coast are getting these pubs. before we here in CA.
Does anyone know...cause my favorite shop hasen't even seen it yet.
-Babylon-
Crone
Maybe, but I got my copy in OR (that's up north ;> )
Crone
>-Babylon-
S. Blanc
>-Babylon-
I was wondering the same thing, and I'm on the east coast! I did notice
that HY 9 1/2 was received by a lot of the people here a couple of weeks
before any comic shops in my neighborhood got it in-drove me crazy!<G>
-Shadow
Cabaret bar Satellite
: mor...@netcom.com (Sam Lowry) writes:
: >-Babylon-
: -Shadow
You should consider yourself lucky to be in the US. Here in
Switzerland (Western Europe, for those who wonder...), we received
HY #9.5 only two weeks ago, and we still have to see Wavedancers #1...
Well, maybe this week...
"Fire in Harmony!.." Alias
----
"In Switzerland, anything not forbidden is mandatory..."
Stephane "Alias" GALLAY, sate...@di.epfl.ch
Milton Ngan
> You should consider yourself lucky to be in the US. Here in
> Switzerland (Western Europe, for those who wonder...), we received
> HY #9.5 only two weeks ago, and we still have to see Wavedancers #1...
> Well, maybe this week...
>
> "Fire in Harmony!.." Alias
> ----
> "In Switzerland, anything not forbidden is mandatory..."
> Stephane "Alias" GALLAY, sate...@di.epfl.ch
>
Down here in the deep South Pacific we have recently received both
Wavedancers #1 and Hidden Years #10 (I think it's 10, the start of the
Shard's series anyways :)
Milton
Matti Mikael M [nk|
What do You think how I feel when people start talking about a new
issue and when I know too bloody well that it'll take at least two
or three weeks to get my eyes on that issue here in Finland?
Well, shit happens.
All the time.
Matti Mikael M [nk|
Crone wrote(>), I wrote(>>) and Crone wrote(>>>):
>>>That's gotta be 3m's voice. Who else is so full of vengeance that he's
>>>forgotten how to hunt for his belly rather than his wall? And who's
>>Well, my voice, but not completely mine...
>>There was something that shoke it's cage...
>Ok. I am admitting I have been an idiot. Despite my keeping a list of
>posters to this group, I have confused our friend 3m with someone els.
>Forgive me.
No need to apologize, it was my article but not my bloodlust (I hope)...
>>She's got nothing to with that monster I keep locked somewhere deep in
>>my mind. No I wouln't call it an alter ego, not even an alter id.
>>It just is and I'm not willing to study it any closer.
>>I'll just keep it locked and hided as well as I can...
>>It has no memory, no hate, no anger, no .......
>>It just is and I can't say I'm happy because of it's existence.
>Man, that *sucks*! Can we help?
If I don't dare to study what it is, I'm not letting You - or Drewcifer -
risk your minds trying to help me. Besides I think I'd rather not have
the two (or four or six or...) of You "going out" and playing "Winnowill
vs. Savah and Suntop" game. Not inside my mind! :-)
>>And that civil war You feared...
>>I don't want it either...
>> <<<there can be no war if there is no-one left... no-one...>>>
>>(that was something from the deepness, but don't worry I'll keep
>>it locked. Well I'll try. Whatever shit happens I'll be trying...)
>Hey, relax, we didn't mean to scare you.
No. I know that, but I hope I didn't scare You...
>>>>But seriously...check out our e-mail addresses. If I were to disagree with
>>>>Crone, she'd tromp over from Towers, ring the Drama House doorbell, and
>>>>clock me a good one when I opened the door. :):):)
(that was Drewcifer)
>>So? Ok, I have it easier to disagree with her because I've more than
>>just an ocean between us? :-> (The great wisdom of foreing and
>>defencepolitics: keep Your frends close and enemies (far) away.)
>Hey, you're my friend too and you're as close as my computer!
But if I write/say something that irritates You...
I'll still have my stoneskulled head in one piece on my shoulders... :-)
And I was just netless for some 72 hours and what have You done?
All of you! More than 50 articles, and I didn't have enough time
to read and comment all I wanted last friday... :-/
>>Sorry, Crone. I ruined Your chance to get bribed... :-)
>
>Hey! No fair! That's all right, the bribe he mentioned was prettied-up
>blackmail anyhow. :)
:-)
>>3m
>
>Crone
Elizabeth McCoy
>Matti Mikael M [nk| (m...@delta.hut.fi) wrote:
>: Layla wrote:
>:> And Mender's
>:>reaction was...interesting. I don't like him much. I find
>:>him awfully bloodthirsty--the kind of bloodthirstiness that
>:>comes from people who watch others spill blood, and love to
>:>egg them on without running a risk themselves. I noticed
>:>this particularly in Hidden Years 9 1/2, when the elves are all
>:>watching the fight at the end, and even Skywise and Ember are
>:>rather horrified, Mender is still grinning like he thinks this
>: >is the greatest thing ever.
Ember had a couple of vicious expressions too -- she knew that it wasn't
just for the bloodshed, but that part appealed to her too.
>: Don't be too hard on him. Mender is still young. He hadn't
>: lived with Wolfriders before. He is not used to the Pack-law
>: and the War has been his only(?) experience about violent
>: action. And he is so hot-headed about being a Wolfrider and
>: admiring Cutter (HY#4). And because he is sort of "newbie"
>: among them, he overacts.
>: But yes: sometimes he overacts too much...
>
> I'll second that motion. The lad's still very young. Think,
>Dart IS young, and Mender's probably ten years younger. If anything,
>he must roughly be the same age as Ember.
> Wonder where he got that bad habit of hurting people with
>his healing powers, though... Well, at least he hasn't black hair... 8-)
I think he's older than Ember -- but he's young by Sun Folk standards,
which is what he was raised in. And he's certainly young enough to have
fire in his blood...
I don't think that his use of his powers to harm is necessarily a "bad
habit," though -- c'mon, he's *different* from Leetah! (I could say some
nasty snide things about Healers who are too "good"/afraid to explore the
ramifications of their powers and develop the flip-side too. [But that's
just because I'm playing a <psi human> Healer in an RPG -- with
Bloodlust...]) Not all Healers need to be EITHER/OR holier-than-thou
Hypocratic Oath types vs. evil twisted nastybad black snakes with some
serious mental scars.
Besides, Mender's kinda cute. And you know what they say about Healers....
Elizabeth McCoy
>>Quite recently (I think somewhere right after SaBM), Wendy declared
>>that she'd changed her "identification" from Cutter to Kahvi. Maybe
>>we're wrong to consider Skywise still as "Richard's elf". He may not be
>>anymore (then who? my personal guess goes to Treestump... 8-)).
>
>Treestump is too smart. :) Wendy? Kahvi? Ehhhh....no. Can't see it.
>But you never know, maybe Wendy is a treacherous liar with a soft heart
>for overgrown bats...
Heart? Heart? What does *heart* have to do with drooling over #2 survivor
of Blue Rubble? [*Yeah*! That's *my* Hidden Years wish -- Tyldak's
Change, drawn by WENDY! (Maybe inked by someone else, but preferrably
*painted* by Her, like the first five issues.) And if Blair touches it, I
*will* buy one just to shed and send to them. :-p ]
But Wendy *does* have a "Kahvi Smirk." (The smirk in #20 where she's
saying, "Dung. Dung twice.") Also where she's smirking at Chief Zey.
--emc...@world.std.com, Tyldak groupie.
Elizabeth McCoy
[Lotsa flame deleted]
[Email apology taken into consideration]
>Well, who died and tossed you the funkin' gavel, little lady?
Nobody. I took it up in mine own arrogance, pride, and overconfidence,
just like I do lotsa things. Never said I was a perfect little daughter
of the Safety Squad, now did I? Still, I stand by what I typed -- Blair
can do his own stuff as much as he wants. His own characters probably
look fine in his own style. But he shouldn't be drawing EQ. Or, perhaps
more true to what I meant, he shouldn't be drawing canon. If somebody's
going to be drawing canon, I can cite the HY and BOTC/PNW artists and
inkers that I'd prefer, and the ones that I'd praise to the stars
themselves as the Heirs to the Artist Herself.
>And hey! *I'm* the bitch around here, little lady! You keep a lid on
>that snide smug "how dare you ask a question so simple" bullshit!
No! :-p And I am significantly above five-feet-even, so I ain't little,
and if you call me a lady I'll have to introduce you to more of my
character aspects than I care to unleash on this unsuspecting newsgroup.
You can call me an Uppity Wench if you want, though.
>And there you go again! I suppose you think everybody's privileged
>enough to own/read it all. Let's practice a little tolerance of FAQ's
>here!
Okay, so I was being a *little* snide. Of course, I read enough of the
issues in the bookstore before I finally broke down and started coughing
up cash. But if you've got the issues, it's bloody well *stated*! Ekuar
speaks of how he and his friends were captured by trolls; Guttlekraw
tells Vaya, "Those elves learned the price of disobedience one finger, one
*limb* at a time. Do you, too, wish to learn?" <Quoted from memory>
>>Read the article in the second Gatherum.
>That's assumin' ya got it! 'Cause I got a lot, but I don't got that!
Tough, 'cause I ain't gonna type it all in. I'm coming close enough to
carpel tunnel with my serious writing, my Email, and shorter responses to
this newsgroup. 'Course, considering the number of times the topic has
cropped up, we oughta petition WaRP for a computer-readable version to
send or DL. (People ain't buying the Gatherum *just* for that article, I
betcha. It's for the various art bits, and to say, "I have *both*
Gatherums and I'll buy the combined version when it comes out too!")
--emc...@world.std.com, who never never never wanted to be Leetah just to
be civilized and nice and smooth over all the hot headed male nonesense.
(For that matter, I don't see myself in Joyleaf, either.)
[And okay, I was being snide. If *Clawz* gripes (without four-letter
words), I will apologize for having more EQ than most people I know and a
better memory for details than many. [Goes back to bloody archives. "And
I'm a real EQ fanatic, I own the board game and most of the issues. I
missed out on some issues of 'Kings of The Broken Wheel'[...]"] I won't
apologize for griping about the Ekuar part. I will now apologize for
being snide regarding Venka and Rayek's relationship. I was in a bad
mood.]
Elizabeth McCoy
>this possible. :)
Uh-oh. Time to run. <grin>
[BTW, I think that Her Beauty in Wavedancers is Her Beauty of the distant
past, back after She twisted Twoey, and long before the WR ever showed
up.]
[[Other BTW -- You *really* want me to type in the Q&A for all the
issues? Seriously? Because I will get around to it eventually if you're
serious, and then I'll MAILBOMB YOU AGAIN! <evil snigger>]]
Elizabeth McCoy
>SKYWISE- [...] He is cool, calm, and collective [...]
<blink> You really see him that way? He's calm sometimes when Cutter
isn't, but then there's him slicing Thief's thumb off, his comment in
SABM <something>, "We'll hack through stone and flesh to save our kin!",
the way he went half-beserk at the human with his mom's hairpiece... Now,
I'm not saying that these weren't justified ("You humans have too many
fingers anyway!"), but I'm not sure I'd call him consistantly cool, calm,
and collected. He is supposed to be a balance to Cutter, though, so the
pair tend to have one fly off the handle while the other is trying to sit
on him.
>WINNOWIL-[...] but I do not understand why she became evil. She seemed
>so nice...
No net access. <pokerface with tongue in cheek> She got bored, bored,
bored. Can you imagine being a healer, with nobody to heal? No use?
Nothing to do but hang around and warm Voll's bed? Here, I will flaunt
my English Major (you can all hold your noses and boo now), and consider
the potential similarities between Sweet Winnie and _The Yellow
Wallpaper_ by.... Oh, frotz. Forgot it. Not gonna dig it up, either.
I wrote a most entertainingly twisted paper about the freedom in madness
that The Yellow Wallpaper may illustrate... Winnie may be "evil" now, but
you gotta admit that she's *NEEDED* now! As Crone's wont to say, without
her, what's _ElfQuest_?
>RAYEK- Yet again, another favorite character that was supposed to be
>hated.
I was rather ticked when they fixed him up in #16 or so, and then got him
twisted around again. Rayek's got an attitude, he couldn't figure the
difference in loving and possession for a while, but I thought that he'd
found a bit of tolerance in him... And a sense of humor -- that smirk as
he's levitating Cutter out of the wolf-pit to kill the trolls...
Notice that the people who are supposed to be the baddie don't have a
sense of humor? (Female) Door's Lament aka "Catatonia County Rag": "Well,
I sneaked hair remover into Winnowill's shampoo/So Winnowill played me a
joke or two." But Rayek's got his sense of humor back since 9.5 --
Cutter: "I can [...] track you anywhere you -- run!?!" Rayek: "--Or
climb?"
>My most HATED characters are- Cutter, Leetah, Kahvi, Tyldak, and Venka.
Okay, Cutter and Leetah, I can understand. Kahvi? Okay... Tyldak? Whyfor
you hate *him*? Ditto Venka -- she's one of the few major Blackhairs who
doesn't have a bad case of megalomania (maybe).
[Random other people discuss how Venka ex Machina should get a
personality... Okay, point. Hm. Hows about make her Recognize somebody?
Somebody *irritating*. Yeah, lose that perfect cool, break a nail,
have insomnia and get that perfect black hair tangled... Hm. Maybe it'll
happen in "Shards" which I do *not* have yet. <grumble> I hate snow -- it
keeps me from going to the comics store on my own.] But truth be told, I
think Venka's got a *little* more than Plot-Device in her. I liked her in
the few glimpses I saw of her as a kid. I wish we could have seen more of
her and Tyleet growing up together. They seem to have grown apart, but
there's got to be stories about that -- Tyleet's first wolf-friend, and
Venka as an outsider to both (all three) tribes...
As regards soul-names... I used to have one. I don't know if it fits me
anymore, though. These days, fracturing my Self into various components
and finding the truth of them feels more comfortable.
I used to be a Renunciate of Darkover, too. Then I found a soulmate. (I
do believe in soulmates. It was in our wedding script.) _Di catinas_
<sp?> stopped sounding so wrong. I suppose that in this day and age and
world, "freemate" is technically correct, though.
Elizabeth McCoy
>I can't believe anyone would write that Cutter is their least favorite
>elf...CUTTER IS ELFQUEST!!!!!!!
>Try watching Star Trek without Captain Kirk...
"So spread the word throughout the land -- / We know that Spock's not
dead. / And if they will not bring him back / We'll make Khan films
instead. / Dave and Saavik can co-star / and Kirk can tag behind. / And
even the bridge crew can come / 'Cause this time they got lines." <Born
Again Trek, by Ecklar>
I dunno -- I can watch ST:TNG, and I can even watch the Quantum Worf
episode where Riker was captain. I can watch DS9, I can watch the new
one when it comes. And you gotta admit that "swaggering, tin-plated
dictator with delusions of godhood" is a really niftykeen insult. <grin>
>Knight Rider without Michael Knight...
Yay, car! Three cheers for the car! Equal time for AIs!
>or the A-Team without Smith.
Wouldn't know that one...
>These are characters that define a show and Cutter has defined
>Elfquest for over a decade and a half... IMHO
Ah, but is that good? I don't mind Cutter, though I can understand why
some might. These days, I *have* been liking others better, though.
Elizabeth McCoy
>No matter what you think of [Blair]--and even if I hated him
>too--advancing our stuff and simultaneously bashing him is really
>*bad* form and will get us *nowhere*.
Amen. And you will be *remembered*. (I got back from Arisia, a Boston
Con, and got to hear all the nifty horror-stories about how editors talk
to each other...) And now he's some sort of manager (his competancy in
that, I have no knowledge of, and am for some strange reason inclined to
believe in....), so you *really* don't want to be doing compairson stuff.
But as I have not the spark of EQ stories in me, and as I know my art is
neither good nor consistant enough to ever propose... I can gripe about
"War" as much as I want to. <grin> (Note that I don't have much opinion
about the first 3 New Blood stuff that he did.) But I'm getting mildly
bored, so I'll ease off it soon.
[Clawz?! You can do a Quicktime of 'em?? *drool* Pity you don't like
Tyldak, because I would *love* to see him in flight...]
Elizabeth McCoy
from.
I boggled at this. Richard said, to paraphrase, "He's a future character."
He's the warlord of the castle, or so it was implied. And also implied
that he's got an Attitude.
Then umkn...@mcs.Drexel.edu (Mike Knauer) makes reference to HY#10.
*whimper* I will be so happy when Saturday comes along and I can get this
one. And NB#7, if if I'm lucky.
Bruce Garrett
SL> No this isn't a critique of Wavedancers...I was just wondering if you
SL> fans on the east coast are getting these pubs. before we here in CA.
SL> Does anyone know...cause my favorite shop hasen't even seen it yet.
Had Wavedancers first issue here in Maryland (Baltimore) for
several weeks now. Saw it a few days before I saw the first messages
concerning it posted here. The comic book stores around here aren't
exactly comprehensive either....mostly the usual superhero stuff. Maybe
your local comic shops should try another distributer...?
-Bruce Garrett
Crone
all that:
<<Retired? It doesn't seem that way. The Twist has just become
more subtle.>>
>[Lotsa flame deleted]
>[Email apology taken into consideration]
>>Well, who died and tossed you the funkin' gavel, little lady?
>No! :-p And I am significantly above five-feet-even, so I ain't little,
>and if you call me a lady I'll have to introduce you to more of my
>character aspects than I care to unleash on this unsuspecting newsgroup.
>You can call me an Uppity Wench if you want, though.
<snicker> Me too? Me too?
>Tough, 'cause I ain't gonna type it all in. I'm coming close enough to
>carpel tunnel with my serious writing, my Email, and shorter responses to
>this newsgroup. 'Course, considering the number of times the topic has
>cropped up, we oughta petition WaRP for a computer-readable version to
>send or DL. (People ain't buying the Gatherum *just* for that article, I
>betcha. It's for the various art bits, and to say, "I have *both*
>Gatherums and I'll buy the combined version when it comes out too!")
Yeah, that's Ladylove. <Sighhhhh> Me, I don't buy it unless I like the
pretty pictures. <smirk>
Crone (whose reply to this reply is much shorter and much fluffier than the
original reply)
Are ya lost yet?
;]
Crone
>>Man, that *sucks*! Can we help?
>If I don't dare to study what it is, I'm not letting You - or Drewcifer -
>risk your minds trying to help me. Besides I think I'd rather not have
>the two (or four or six or...) of You "going out" and playing "Winnowill
>vs. Savah and Suntop" game. Not inside my mind! :-)
<Grin> Between Drewcifer and I, it's five...I think. Really, I can't speak
for Drewcifer. That's not my place...I should quit doing it. I do stuff
like misspell his name. <smile?>
>>Hey, you're my friend too and you're as close as my computer!
>But if I write/say something that irritates You...
>I'll still have my stoneskulled head in one piece on my shoulders... :-)
Yes...I wouldn't do physical harm--if I seem to be about to, make me stop
(why am I saying this? You're far far away!)...but anyway. Good advice in
general.
>And I was just netless for some 72 hours and what have You done?
>All of you! More than 50 articles, and I didn't have enough time
>to read and comment all I wanted last friday... :-/
Oh, boy. I hope I can find a way to log on over the three months of summer
vacation...(I'm so deprived!)
>>>3m
>>
>>Crone
>3m
Crone
David G. Martin
>mar...@cc.umanitoba.ca (David G. Martin) writes:
>>SKYWISE- [...] He is cool, calm, and collective [...]
><blink> You really see him that way? He's calm sometimes when Cutter
>isn't, but then there's him slicing Thief's thumb off, his comment in
>SABM <something>, "We'll hack through stone and flesh to save our kin!",
>the way he went half-beserk at the human with his mom's hairpiece... Now,
>I'm not saying that these weren't justified ("You humans have too many
>fingers anyway!"), but I'm not sure I'd call him consistantly cool, calm,
>and collected. He is supposed to be a balance to Cutter, though, so the
>pair tend to have one fly off the handle while the other is trying to sit
>on him.
-Sometimes you have to get hot-blooded, and he does it admirably well.
Eyes High's ornament? I would go berserk too. Like I said though, he did
it well, actually LISTENING to the human before killing him, which he
never did.
>>RAYEK- Yet again, another favorite character that was supposed to be
>>hated.
>>My most HATED characters are- Cutter, Leetah, Kahvi, Tyldak, and Venka.
>Okay, Cutter and Leetah, I can understand. Kahvi? Okay... Tyldak? Whyfor
>you hate *him*? Ditto Venka -- she's one of the few major Blackhairs who
>doesn't have a bad case of megalomania (maybe).
-I can't stand Tylsak because, well, he's ugly. I suppose that I am no gem
either so I should'nt talk, but also I get a feeling of, well,
UNEASE when they show him (oh my (as Crone would say, insert deity
here ) I am going crazy). Venka is okay, I just don't no her well yet, and
I detest elves with lots of power, plus she seems snotty.
>--emc...@world.std.com
Clawz
Crone
>either so I should'nt talk, but also I get a feeling of, well,
I find in him an absurd, alien beauty. He is wonderful in flight...but if
you think he's so ugly, maybe I'll vote for you to do Timmorn in Quicktime
instead of Tyldak... ;)
Crone
Crone
>>Welcome to old articles and my comments. Thanks to E. McCoy for making
>>this possible. :)
>Uh-oh. Time to run. <grin>
>[BTW, I think that Her Beauty in Wavedancers is Her Beauty of the distant
>past, back after She twisted Twoey, and long before the WR ever showed
>up.]
Actually, Drewcifer and I have conferred briefly on this, and I still think
(perhaps he does but I should know better than to speak for others) that
this must be what Winnowill does with her time on the island. You
know...there were hundreds of years in between Tyldak dropping her there and
her growing gills (remember, she didn't have them in KotBW 5). Maybe the
idea was taken from the Wavedancers themselves.
Crone
Crone
she has to answer to it...
>mar...@cc.umanitoba.ca (David G. Martin) writes:
>>SKYWISE- [...] He is cool, calm, and collective [...]
> He is supposed to be a balance to Cutter, though, so the
>pair tend to have one fly off the handle while the other is trying to sit
>on him.
<Chuckle> Drewcifer? Care to add anything?
>>WINNOWIL-[...] but I do not understand why she became evil. She seemed
>>so nice...
>No net access. <pokerface with tongue in cheek> She got bored, bored,
>bored. Can you imagine being a healer, with nobody to heal? No use?
>Nothing to do but hang around and warm Voll's bed?
>Winnie may be "evil" now, but
>you gotta admit that she's *NEEDED* now! As Crone's wont to say, without
>her, what's _ElfQuest_?
True, true. <Grin> Exactly how is she needed now? Sure, there's plenty of
elven tribes who could use the most powerful healer on the face of the
planet..."the healer's greatest need is to be needed." (I'm quoting because
I know I didn't make it up just now...but I don't know where I'm quoting
from, so relax.)
>>RAYEK- Yet again, another favorite character that was supposed to be
>>hated.
>I was rather ticked when they fixed him up in #16 or so, and then got him
>twisted around again. Rayek's got an attitude, he couldn't figure the
>difference in loving and possession for a while, but I thought that he'd
>found a bit of tolerance in him... And a sense of humor -- that smirk as
>he's levitating Cutter out of the wolf-pit to kill the trolls...
Well., he's "fixed up" again and if W.O.W. actually does drown, it'll either
make him finally mad, or heartbroken...I don't think they'll kill her.
Rayek with so little hope for himself...without the Palace or
Winnowill...he'd be a mess. A broken mess...just waiting for Leetah's
tender administrations, I'm sure. <Puke> If they do that I'll hack my way
to Poughkeepsie through the snow...but I don't think they'll dare.
Elfquest's reality is part of its addictiveness...happily ever after just
isn't an option. Everyone is damaged, whether the bad guy gets put in jail
or goes scot free or dies at the hands of the cowboy in white.
>Notice that the people who are supposed to be the baddie don't have a
>sense of humor? (Female) Door's Lament aka "Catatonia County Rag": "Well,
>I sneaked hair remover into Winnowill's shampoo/So Winnowill played me a
>joke or two."
How very awful!
>But Rayek's got his sense of humor back since 9.5 --
>Cutter: "I can [...] track you anywhere you -- run!?!" Rayek: "--Or
>climb?"
Yes, as prideful as it may be...that was indeed a gem. Still...I think
Winnowill had a sense of humour back when she had some control, back in the
days of the Mountain reaching for the sky. Her humour was for the amusement
of herself and those around her alone...but humour nonetheless. Some things
are inside jokes by nature...and everything was an inside joke in Blue
Maountain...even the occasional wry comments on behalf of Voll.
>Random other people discuss how Venka ex Machina should get a
>personality... Okay, point. Hm. Hows about make her Recognize somebody?
We're voting for Suntop, I believe.
>Somebody *irritating*. Yeah, lose that perfect cool, break a nail,
>have insomnia and get that perfect black hair tangled...
Become a little less frigid...
>I think Venka's got a *little* more than Plot-Device in her. I liked her in
>the few glimpses I saw of her as a kid. I wish we could have seen more of
>her and Tyleet growing up together. They seem to have grown apart, but
>there's got to be stories about that -- Tyleet's first wolf-friend, and
>Venka as an outsider to both (all three) tribes...
She's a Palace person, to me...since we ahven't any better name for the
Palace's few favored inhabitants that still are attached to bodies...
>As regards soul-names... I used to have one. I don't know if it fits me
>anymore, though. These days, fracturing my Self into various components
>and finding the truth of them feels more comfortable.
<<We wouldn't know anything about that kind of treatment.>> No, no, of
course not!
By the way, diod you get my last letter? I ahven't heard from you!
Crone
Jaguar
Hate to tell you this, but it IS out on the east coast.
Well at least in the DC area. I got my copy about two weeks
ago, but only because a friend of mine saved me the last
copy of the comic in his store. They have sold out.
Jaguar
Anna Korra'ti
> Three-way mating seems to be, if not common, at least "socially
>acceptable" (PC?..) among Wolfriders and Sun Folk. Maybe it's something
>different for the Go-Backs, and Kahvi's quote could be considered as a
>rather elaborate way to say "Skywise is a pervert"...
> Just a thought...
I wouldn't buy it, considering how eagerly the Go-Backs tend to approach
matters of joining.
> The trouble with Foxfur is, we don't really see the two of them
>but in two places: ElfQuest #4 (B/W original serie) and Hidden Years #5
>(or was it #4? whatever...). Anyway, I am under the impression that they
>were not recognized.
We've never been told they are. And besides, if they'd
Recognized, there would have been a cub.
>One reason: even though Skywise is Cutter's elder,
>he's still very young. And it seems like Recognition is something that
>waits for some time before springing into action (cf. Joyleaf & Bearclaw,
>Toorah & Sun-Toucher, etc.); Leetah & Cutter are something of an exception
>(in Cutter's POV).
Age has nothing to do with when you can Recognize (except, of
course, that you need to be old enough to sire or bear a cub :) ).
Dewshine was also very young when she Recognized, remember?
Shade,
Sh'k'anna
--
Please direct responses to: dap...@halcyon.com
----------------------------------------------
"Irresponsbility is not a sickness - it's an art." - R. Steele
Cabaret bar Satellite
: In article <2hipol$k...@disuns2.epfl.ch> sate...@disuns2.epfl.ch (Cabaret bar Satellite) writes:
: > Three-way mating seems to be, if not common, at least "socially
: >acceptable" (PC?..) among Wolfriders and Sun Folk. Maybe it's something
: >different for the Go-Backs, and Kahvi's quote could be considered as a
: >rather elaborate way to say "Skywise is a pervert"...
: > Just a thought...
: I wouldn't buy it, considering how eagerly the Go-Backs tend to approach
: matters of joining.
Agreed. It was just a thought, and a stupid one at that...
: > The trouble with Foxfur is, we don't really see the two of them
: >but in two places: ElfQuest #4 (B/W original serie) and Hidden Years #5
: >(or was it #4? whatever...). Anyway, I am under the impression that they
: >were not recognized.
: We've never been told they are. And besides, if they'd
: Recognized, there would have been a cub.
Not if they recognized shortly before Foxfur got killed. But if
they were, I think Skywise would have been hit much harder. Remember,
Bearclaw went berserk at the death of Joyleaf. And we *know* that Skywise
isn't above a little fury himself...
: >One reason: even though Skywise is Cutter's elder,
: >he's still very young. And it seems like Recognition is something that
: >waits for some time before springing into action (cf. Joyleaf & Bearclaw,
: >Toorah & Sun-Toucher, etc.); Leetah & Cutter are something of an exception
: >(in Cutter's POV).
: Age has nothing to do with when you can Recognize (except, of
: course, that you need to be old enough to sire or bear a cub :) ).
: Dewshine was also very young when she Recognized, remember?
Then again, Tyldak and Dewshine recognized go under the "first
meeting" exception. Like Leetah and Cutter.
: Shade,
: Sh'k'anna
"Fire in Harmony!.." Alias
____
\/\/ "In Switzerland, anything not forbidden is mandatory..."
\7 Stephane "Alias" GALLAY, sate...@di.epfl.ch
Crone
>Elizabeth wrote:
>(about Mender)
>>I think he's older than Ember -- but he's young by Sun Folk standards,
>>which is what he was raised in. And he's certainly young enough to have
>>fire in his blood...
>No he's not: He was born when Timmain used Suntop's power to turn
>the Scroll of Colors. Ember and Suntop were born as soon as that
>was possible (about two years after Leetah's and Cutter's joining).
Yes he is: he aged at least a few decades before going into a Preserver
cocoon. Ember aged a few weeks, tops, away with Leetah and Suntop and
Skywise...
>>--emc...@world.std.com
>3m
Crone
Crone
>>but in two places: ElfQuest #4 (B/W original serie) and Hidden Years #5
>>(or was it #4? whatever...). Anyway, I am under the impression that they
>>were not recognized.
> We've never been told they are. And besides, if they'd
>Recognized, there would have been a cub.
Unless they Recognized less than a turn before she died (cringe)...we would
have never seen the difference.
>>One reason: even though Skywise is Cutter's elder,
*was*
> Age has nothing to do with when you can Recognize (except, of
>course, that you need to be old enough to sire or bear a cub :) ).
>Dewshine was also very young when she Recognized, remember?
This is true...but if Recognition doesn't find a "perfect" mate before you
start to get old, it starts to get desperate...
>Sh'k'anna
Crone
Edward W Barry __ Oxford University Press
Edward W Barry __ Oxford University Press
Matti Mikael M [nk|
(about Mender)
>I think he's older than Ember -- but he's young by Sun Folk standards,
>which is what he was raised in. And he's certainly young enough to have
>fire in his blood...
No he's not: He was born when Timmain used Suntop's power to turn
the Scroll of Colors. Ember and Suntop were born as soon as that
was possible (about two years after Leetah's and Cutter's joining).
Matti Mikael M [nk|
Clawz:
>>SKYWISE- [...] He is cool, calm, and collective [...]
>
><blink> You really see him that way? He's calm sometimes when Cutter
>isn't, but then there's him slicing Thief's thumb off, his comment in
>SABM <something>, "We'll hack through stone and flesh to save our kin!",
...
Cool and calm like a nicely cooled bottle of champagne? Give that
a small careless knock - and KA-BOooooosshhhh......
>>WINNOWIL-[...] but I do not understand why she became evil. She seemed
>>so nice...
>
>No net access. <pokerface with tongue in cheek> She got bored, bored,
>bored. Can you imagine being a healer, with nobody to heal? No use?
>Nothing to do but hang around and warm Voll's bed? Here, I will flaunt
Everyone else shaping rocks or flying/floatig around and she had
nothing to do, no-one to heal, no fun, ...
And Voll was even more understanding and calm and not-provoked than
Tanner ever, I think... That must have been making her nuts...
Or anyone.
Edward W Barry __ Oxford University Press
too bloodthirsty. Many people responded, saying that Mender is awfully
young yet, and that he's grown up idolizing Cutter, so part of what
he's doing is rejoicing in the bloodshed that he thinks is part of the
Way (and it is, I suppose). It was also noted that Mender as warrior
makes an interesting contrast to Leetah, who freaks out after killing a
troll to defend her cubs.
All of this is true, and it makes me feel much better about Mender's role
as a counter to Leetah, and as one of the "new" wolfriders. It doesn't
make me _like_ him any more.
--Layla
Edward W Barry __ Oxford University Press
I can see C & L. They're both a bit selfrighteous (okay, a *lot*
selfrighteous). I like Kahvi, but probably wouldn't if I actually met
her (if that makes sense). And I agree, Tyldak gives me the creeps
sometimes. I think it's because I have no idea what what he's thinking--
whether he actually feels anything for Dewshine, whether he feels anything
for his son (who MOST DEFINITELY needs a new name).
I like Venka, too, and don't think she's as personality-less as some
people seem to. I respect her for having power and not flaunting it,
or even being self-righteous about it. And I really like her relationship
with Rayek. I'm glad he has a friend.
My favorite elves, is no order and I'm sure I'm leaving someone out:
Skywise, Strongbow, Vaya, Nightfall. (heavy on the Wolfriders, I know)
My least favorite:
Mender (as mentioned before). And I often find Suntop annoying and whiny.
Reminds me of Weasly Crusher far too much.
--Layla
Robin Vernell
Yes, I must agree that Wavedancers turned out to be better than I
expected. But being that the fellow who draws it is an animator
with a promising career at Disney,( or more to the point was
going to be an animator at Disney but gave up the job) so I'm
not really surprised. It is alot better than Barry Blair's so-
called art.
On another note what do you think of the Cutter Lasersculpture?
I thought the description in the Previews magazine was overrated
when I actually saw the sculpture in the back of the EQ comics.
Though I must say it is a really nice piece.
I would also assume that since the Wavedancers artist is an
animator that he would be working on the movie and series that
Wendy and Richard were talking about when I met them during
the Fantasy With Teeth Tour. Though Wendy said that the movie
wasn't a go yet there would be one out soon. While Richard
was very excited about the idea and was telling everyone that
it was a definate go. I have complete confidence that they will
find a studio to begin production.
Could someone please explain to me the plot line going on in
New Blood lately? I've missed issue 12 and now I have no idea
what is going on.
Crone
>wasn't a go yet there would be one out soon. While Richard
>was very excited about the idea and was telling everyone that
>it was a definate go. I have complete confidence that they will
>find a studio to begin production.
Not me. If Wendy won't put her name in the credits, I won't touch it.
Richard's loyalty to the ElfQuest concept has failed to impress me.
Crone
Crone
For the terminally confused, here, I clarify meself...
It sounded like Wendy was much less secure in this than Ricky...and
that seems to imply some rather shaky results to me. If Wendy won't do
it...well, she *is* the artist, whether or not she draws EQ anymore...
You know, it occured to me. Maybe Wendy is aware of what's going on
with EQ and doesn't draw for it anymore for a *reason...* or maybe I'm just
bitter. :) I can always hope that she will rise above the rock
pile...(obligatory Two-Edge comment deleted)
>Crone
Me again...
Crone
Elizabeth McCoy
>Elizabeth wrote:
>
>(about Mender)
>
>>I think he's older than Ember -- but he's young by Sun Folk standards,
>>which is what he was raised in. And he's certainly young enough to have
>>fire in his blood...
>
>No he's not: He was born when Timmain used Suntop's power to turn
>the Scroll of Colors. Ember and Suntop were born as soon as that
>was possible (about two years after Leetah's and Cutter's joining).
He was younger than Ember from then, till the day that Rayek bamfed the
Palace ahead in time. Then Mender was aging, and Ember wasn't. So now
that they're lovemates, I am pretty durn sure that Mender is older than
Ember -- probably by several decades, if not a century.
Elizabeth McCoy
>In a few hundred years, the Humans
Try a few *thousand* -- ten thousand or so from the Palace's landing to
the time of Cutter, and the greater part of Ekuar's lifetime to the stage
that humans are at now.
>have turned from savage beasts into knights in shining armor.
Who says that these two classifications are mutually exclusive? (she
asked cynically)
>The Elves have not changed. And this is because they have such long life
>spans- nothing changes. So this DOES NOT EXPLAIN HOW THE STUPID HIGH ONES
What about the smart ones?
>ADVANCED SO FAR IN TECHNOLOGY, [...] If anyone knows why the High
>Ones were so high tech, despite their immortality, I want to know opinions.
Because the first Coneheads weren't immortal. It was with their high-tech
that their med-tech got good enough to extend their lifespans. And then
they learned how to shape their own bodies -- they must have been able to
regenerate nerves and muscle and bone, so of *course* they were immortal;
they could replace any part of themselves that started to age.
And Windkin's new costume isn't that bad. At least, not when Wendy's
drawing it. It just blends his Blue Mountain and Wolfrider heritages a
little strangly. I think I may like it a wee bit better than his first
outfit, from HY 2 or so.
Elizabeth McCoy
>You have Forevergreen 1? May I come up North to A.) Bloodily murder you,
>and B.) Find out who your distributor is? Guess I have to go to the
>comic store today, too. Sigh...bye bye money...
Don't bother. It's just more uneven Blair art, uneven somebody's
storyline, Dart Recognizes somebody with a frizzy black mane (this is
nearly the only way we can tell Blair elves apart -- the hair-styles) and
has a kid and goes back into wrapstuff, and we see that Blair can't draw
a teenager Suntop... He does Preservers okay, but they all look too
transparent.
I wouldn't be buying the next one if I hadn't heard that it'll have Wendy
art in it. I am *DEFINITELY* not going to buy the next New Blood
hardcover. Not unless there's new Pini art in it, and maybe not even
then. I can always be evil and borrow it and color-scan the stuff for my
own purposes (which is nicer than borrowing it and tearing the pages
out). [Okay, I'm *mostly* kidding about the copyright violations.]
Layla Voll -- Oxford University Press
> Yes, I must agree that Wavedancers turned out to be better than I
> expected. But being that the fellow who draws it is an animator
> with a promising career at Disney,( or more to the point was
> going to be an animator at Disney but gave up the job) so I'm
> not really surprised. It is alot better than Barry Blair's so-
> called art.
Really? I thought the mer-elves had a Disney-esque look. Especially
in the snub noses and the hair flips.
> On another note what do you think of the Cutter Lasersculpture?
> I thought the description in the Previews magazine was overrated
> when I actually saw the sculpture in the back of the EQ comics.
> Though I must say it is a really nice piece.
Well, in my copy of the comic it looked like a large blob. You could
actually see it?
--Layla
Elizabeth McCoy
>As for Terran vegitarians...*I've* noticed that they also wear more
>beads, as a general rule...and? ;)
Hey! *Hey!* I do *not* wear lots and lots of beads!
Sheesh.
(Though I do wear a silver head-band sometimes, I also tote a PowerBook
around and make sarcastic comments like "Pave the Whales" due to a most
unfortunate experience with a "Green" english "teacher.")
But then, I'm not a pure vegan. Wouldn't give up my Haagan-Daaz.
--emc...@world.std.com
"Never underestimate the power of a small tactical nuclear weapon."
Layla Voll -- Oxford University Press
> He was younger than Ember from then, till the day that Rayek bamfed the
> Palace ahead in time. Then Mender was aging, and Ember wasn't. So now
> that they're lovemates, I am pretty durn sure that Mender is older than
> Ember -- probably by several decades, if not a century.
Yes--how old *is* Mender now, anyway? I'm assuming he must have gone
into wrapstuff for a while, or he wouldn't be old, he'd be dead by now.
But various comments in New Blood #13 seem to indicate that he stayed
out for a while. When Dart does the Big Sleep, he goes in saying that
there's nothing left to do in the Sun Village except healing, meaning
that Mender must have stayed out for a little while, right, as long a
he was needed. And he says "long time no see" or something similar to
Dart when Dart gets up the last time, meaning that he's probably been
up for a little while before Dart.
I suppose these aren't huge discrepancies: he could be out for a few
decades more than Dart and it wouldn't make a difference. Or, Blair
might just have forgotten that he was a Wolfrider.
--Layla
Matti Mikael M [nk|
Elizabeth wrote:
>He was younger than Ember from then, till the day that Rayek bamfed the
>Palace ahead in time. Then Mender was aging, and Ember wasn't. So now
>that they're lovemates, I am pretty durn sure that Mender is older than
>Ember -- probably by several decades, if not a century.
Yes.
Pretty complicated this time thing.
And sleeping in wrapstuff.
Rather confusing to figure out how their ages "change" or don't
"change" or ... (is there a third way "change-and-not-change")
aarrghh...
Phill Hatch
> In article <2ib746$4...@disuns2.epfl.ch> sate...@disuns2.epfl.ch (Cabaret bar Satellite) writes:
CUT
> >: Age has nothing to do with when you can Recognize (except, of
> >: course, that you need to be old enough to sire or bear a cub :) ).
> >: Dewshine was also very young when she Recognized, remember?
> > Then again, Tyldak and Dewshine recognized go under the "first
> >meeting" exception. Like Leetah and Cutter.
> Agreed... but then, both Cutter/Leetah and Tyldak/Dewshine are
> pairs with one of each elf from a differing tribe... with elves in
> the same tribe, it's kind of hard to have the "Recognition at
> first sight" scenario, since you'd have known all your tribesmates
> since you were a cub yourself. :)
> Newstar and Wing also both Recognized Sun Villagers... but
> they did so after having been in the village for some time. More
> reference points...
How about this explanation. Recognition is more precise an
equation than the output of good cubs. Perhaps recognition
actually reads the genetic code of the egg and sperm of the
parents.
In other words, recognition knows specifically what the next
egg's genetic code is. For the male, recognition has a
distribution curve of likely candidate sperm. Over the
course of time, a female's specific code changes with each
menstrual cycle. The male's distribution curve probably
just drifts a little bit between two extremes.
So, for the case of elves who have known each other a long
time, the female hadn't cycled to a matching point with
the male.
For the case of recognizing in the womb, well in humans
female babies' ovaries have all the eggs they are ever going
to have. So the first egg up happened to be an egg totally
compatible with the male.
By exposing yourself to new tribes, you are simply increasing
the chances of good genetic matches so of course you are going
to have more first sight recognitions there.
As to recognition being less picky as you age, I have two
possible reasons that even support each other. The first
explanation is that with age, you have simply been exposed
to more possible combinations until you finally find the
right combination. The second is that evolutionarily speaking,
the entire purpose of life is to pass your genes on to the
next generation. In gene pools as limited as the elves' pool,
it is racially imperative that you not lose genes out of the
pool. So on a species level, recognition acts to maintain
a total gene pool for future generations. Perhaps some recognition
children are simply carriers of skills that won't be useful
for generations.
ObBlairBash: I couldn't tell who half the characters in NB 13 were
from panel to panel.
--
Phil Health Information
pha...@slc.mentorg.com Fat . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0g
Protein . . . . . . . . . . . 0g
Calories . . . . . . . . . . 0
Official Content . . . . . . 0
Crone
>In article <2ib746$4...@disuns2.epfl.ch> sate...@disuns2.epfl.ch (Cabaret bar Satellite) writes:
>>: We've never been told they are. And besides, if they'd
>>: Recognized, there would have been a cub.
>>
>> Not if they recognized shortly before Foxfur got killed.
> Point. In that case, Foxfur *and* the cub would have been killed.
>>But if
>>they were, I think Skywise would have been hit much harder. Remember,
>>Bearclaw went berserk at the death of Joyleaf. And we *know* that Skywise
>>isn't above a little fury himself...
> Definite agreement. And I think that we would have been given this
>detail in _Hidden Years #5_, if it had happened... since that was the
>"let's show Skywise's history" issue.
Hm...it wasn't "let's show Skywsise's history." It was "let's explain
Skywise's existence and give him a reason to have no family but Cutter's."
> with elves in
>the same tribe, it's kind of hard to have the "Recognition at
>first sight" scenario, since you'd have known all your tribesmates
>since you were a cub yourself. :)
Eyes still meet eyes. Sometimes they didn't know until a "moment."
> Newstar and Wing also both Recognized Sun Villagers... but
Ok. Newstar Rec'd some guy and got Kimo. Wing...who? I'm (as always)
quite lost. It must have happened in New Blood.
>Sh'k'anna
Crone
Crone
>>*was*
>the tribe, save for Ember and Suntop....
Ember. Suntop seems to be considered a Sunfolk now.
>Sh'k'anna
Crone
Cabaret bar Satellite
: Ok. Newstar Rec'd some guy and got Kimo. Wing...who? I'm (as always)
: quite lost. It must have happened in New Blood.
<tsk!> Shame to you Crone, you don't even know your "canon" stuff! 8-)
It was in Hidden Years #2, and he recognized Behtia and (this is in NB
they both gave birth to Serrin, who eventually recognized Dart by whatever way
Blair might have seen fit.
: Crone
"Fire in Harmony!.." Alias
____
\/\/ "Tell me I'm mad, you're a fine one to decide..." (Marillion)
Crone
>: quite lost. It must have happened in New Blood.
> <tsk!> Shame to you Crone, you don't even know your "canon" stuff! 8-)
Still don't ownm this ish...
> It was in Hidden Years #2, and he recognized Behtia and (this is in NB)
>they both gave birth to Serrin, who eventually recognized Dart by whatever way
>Blair might have seen fit.
"they both" who? Wing and Behtia? No, Behtia gave birth. Wing just
fathered...<grin>...pardon my nitpick. Thanks...
>: Crone
> "Fire in Harmony!.." Alias
Crone (again)
Erkka Sutinen
> dm0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Crone) wrote
> "they both" who? Wing and Behtia? No, Behtia gave birth. Wing just
> fathered...<grin>...pardon my nitpick. Thanks...
Well to be exact yes, but on EQ I have always liked the equality on the
subject :-). Consider the birth scenes at KotBW, issue #7, page 10
"Mother, father and child... locked in sending, three share the work as one"
and birth of Mender, where kids were present too....
Equality for men too!!!!
--
====================================#=========================#===============
Erkka Pietari Sutinen # Oversights will shout # from "The
e...@rieska.oulu.fi / sut...@csc.fi # Contradictions scream # price of my
University of Oulu. Finland # Pay them no heed # soul" by That
Dep. of Information Prosessing Sci # In your WaRPed daydream # Petrol Emotion
Anna Korra'ti
>How about this explanation. Recognition is more precise an
>equation than the output of good cubs. Perhaps recognition
>actually reads the genetic code of the egg and sperm of the
>parents.
that Richard Pini wrote about the subject in the second Gatherum (an
article I strongly recommend for anybody who wants to RP ElfQuest
Recognitions) speaks of subconscious communication between the
involved parties, something to this effect:
Elf Bob's brain: Hey! My elf has fantastic vision but lousy hearing!
Any elves out there with great hearing but bad vision? We could
make a helluva cub, with good eyes *AND* good ears!
Elf Sue's brain: What was that...? I just heard something... nice.
Elf Bob's brain: Hot damn! Okay, Bob, go get her or I'll
make you *SOOOOOOO* sick....
I'm quite willing to accept the guess that on a very deep
level, an elf has intimate knowledge of his or her own genetic
structure - after all, these are creatures descended from a race
who happily shaped themselves every which way from Sunday and
back again, feats which *have* to take in-depth, deeply coded
awareness of one's own genes and such. Recognition seems to be a
way to tap into this deeply buried awareness.
>In other words, recognition knows specifically what the next
>egg's genetic code is. For the male, recognition has a
>distribution curve of likely candidate sperm. Over the
>course of time, a female's specific code changes with each
>menstrual cycle. The male's distribution curve probably
>just drifts a little bit between two extremes.
>
>So, for the case of elves who have known each other a long
>time, the female hadn't cycled to a matching point with
>the male.
Hrmm. I'm not sure if this *quite* sits as well with me,
since there seems to be no set pattern to when a particular
pair of elves will Recognize. ElfQuest females have never been
described as having cycles of fertility, and certainly the
race in general doesn't have anything like, say, Vulcan pon
farr from Star Trek.
The ElfQuest RPG (as well as the same article I
mentioned above, I *think*) speaks of how Recognition *does*
get less picky as the elf gets older... in fact, if an elf gets
really old without having ever Recognized, Recognition will take
whatever it can get. So perhaps in an elf's very earliest years,
there is hypersensitivity on Recognition's part, looking for the
*exact* right gene set to get the best possible cubs... and this
sensitivity gets duller as the elf gets older?
Cutter and Dewshine were both exposed to brand new gene pools
so far as Recognition was concerned, and it leapt at the chance to
match 'em up with somebody. Hence, Leetah and Tyldak...?
By comparison, all of the elves who begat the younger
generation of Wolfriders seem to have had Recognition wait a
while. E.g., Bearclaw was several hundred years old by the time
he *finally* Recognized Joyleaf and they had Cutter... Treestump
would have been several hundred years old, too, when he
Recognized Rillfisher to make Dewshine... One-Eye and Clearbrook
were both elders when Scouter came along, although one might
presume that their Recognition came rather earlier since we
know that Scouter had an unnamed sister who died.
But the most extreme example I can think of is Tanner
and Stormlight. Tanner was an old dried-up stick of an elf by
the time he Recognized Stormlight - and *she* was only 14 or so!
>For the case of recognizing in the womb, well in humans
>female babies' ovaries have all the eggs they are ever going
>to have. So the first egg up happened to be an egg totally
>compatible with the male.
What do you mean by "Recognizing in the womb?"
I don't know how much speculation we can make about the
exact mechanics of it. For all we know, elf females might not
even release eggs out of their ovaries until it's cub-making time. :)
But then, the Go-Backs have been breeding without Recognition, so
it's probably safe to figure that elf plumbing is more or less
similar to human plumbing. :)
That the Go-Backs have been breeding without Recognition seems
to imply that there's some sort of "quality control" that an elf
can bypass if he or she really really really really tries hard
enough. Referencing Richard's article once again, it's stated
therein that some Go-Back ancestor, by a conscious act of will,
suppressed Recognition out of the knowledge that it was either
"start breeding or die, period".... since the Go-Backs were
living in a terrain and environment even more dangerous than
the Wolfriders, I can buy this.
I could buy that this is the same "quality control" that
starts off hypersensitive in an elf's youth and gets less picky
as the elf gets older, for Recognition purposes. And running
pattern matches on eggs and sperm seems a reasonable thing to
happen here. Now that I think about it, cycles seem kind of
reasonable, Recognition constantly running checks and going,
"Lessee, there's a possible match, do I wanna go for it or
wait to see if something better comes along?", ad infinitum.
>By exposing yourself to new tribes, you are simply increasing
>the chances of good genetic matches so of course you are going
>to have more first sight recognitions there.
Actually, I think this is the only way you're going to
have first sight Recognitions anyway. Like I said in an earlier
post, "first sight" for all your own tribesmates is going to
happen when you're still a cub. :)
>As to recognition being less picky as you age, I have two
>possible reasons that even support each other. The first
>explanation is that with age, you have simply been exposed
>to more possible combinations until you finally find the
>right combination.
I don't think this is quite it... see above. This doesn't
sound like it accounts for two elves who have known each other
for several hundred years, and who suddenly look at each other
one day, and *wham*. For example, Bearclaw and Joyleaf were
lovemates long before they were lifemates, and lifemates long
before they Recognized... both of them would have been exposed
to younger elves of the tribe, but basically it was still the
same gene pool. They didn't have brand new elves coming in
from outside to add new data for Recognition's consideration.
>The second is that evolutionarily speaking,
>the entire purpose of life is to pass your genes on to the
>next generation. In gene pools as limited as the elves' pool,
>it is racially imperative that you not lose genes out of the
>pool. So on a species level, recognition acts to maintain
>a total gene pool for future generations. Perhaps some recognition
>children are simply carriers of skills that won't be useful
>for generations.
Hrmm. I had to read this a couple of times before it finally
parsed. But I'm still not quite sure I buy it.
Certainly, Recognition's entire purpose is to make elf
babies and to preserve the species, while making it as genetically
strong as possible. It's reasonable to surmise that Recognition
will want to keep track of as many genes as possible. But can
we reasonably surmise that Recognition can extrapolate out to
future generations? How could Recognition know what other elves an
elf will or will not meet during the course of his/her lifetime?
How could it know what skills will or will not be useful in
the future? This starts getting into metaphysical areas, IMHO, and
makes it a much more complicated process than a simple ongoing
physical drive to find the best possible genetic match for any
given elf.
(Speaking of Bearclaw and Joyleaf, I *do* find myself
wondering why it took Recognition so long to kick in with them
and make Cutter. Everything that we've discussed so far implies
that Recognition had gotten less picky by the time Bearclaw
and Joyleaf finally did Recognize... yet, Cutter is theoretically
a quite fine elf, genetically speaking. One wonders whether
Cutter was the best possible cub either Bearclaw or Joyleaf
could have produced! What might have happened if either of them
had met their genetic match way back in their earliest youth,
hey?)
Longwindedly,
Sh'k'anna
--
Please direct responses to: dap...@halcyon.com
----------------------------------------------
"Irresponsbility is not a sickness - it's an art." - R. Steele
Anna Korra'ti
>> Newstar and Wing also both Recognized Sun Villagers... but
>
>Ok. Newstar Rec'd some guy and got Kimo. Wing...who? I'm (as always)
>quite lost. It must have happened in New Blood.
First reference I saw for it was in Hidden Years #2, at the very
beginning of the first scene in the Sun Village. Wing's Recognized
is a Sun Villager named Behtia, whom he Recognized at one of the
Festivals of Flood and Flower.
Cheers,
Sh'k'anna
--
Please direct responses to: dews...@netcom.com
Crone
damn???
>>So, for the case of elves who have known each other a long
>>time, the female hadn't cycled to a matching point with
>>the male.
> Hrmm. I'm not sure if this *quite* sits as well with me,
>since there seems to be no set pattern to when a particular
>pair of elves will Recognize. ElfQuest females have never been
>described as having cycles of fertility, and certainly the
>race in general doesn't have anything like, say, Vulcan pon
>farr from Star Trek.
oooohhh, bad form to use the words. ;>
I can go either way with the menses thing. If elves do mense, the
explantion about maturing eggs is about the only way around Rec's timing.
But it doesn't help us explain about how there's so few "lovechildren."
> Cutter and Dewshine were both exposed to brand new gene pools
>so far as Recognition was concerned, and it leapt at the chance to
>match 'em up with somebody. Hence, Leetah and Tyldak...?
That appears to be the logic whenever tribes meet tribes <giggle>...
> But the most extreme example I can think of is Tanner
>and Stormlight. Tanner was an old dried-up stick of an elf by
>the time he Recognized Stormlight - and *she* was only 14 or so!
Well, he was a cute dried up stick! He's rather rugged, and I like him that
way. He's the kind of patience and calmness that I *do* like.
>>For the case of recognizing in the womb, well in humans
>>female babies' ovaries have all the eggs they are ever going
>>to have. So the first egg up happened to be an egg totally
>>compatible with the male.
> What do you mean by "Recognizing in the womb?"
Those who know that the child in the womb is their Recognized, even if they
don't feel the push for another, say, 14 years. Like Tanner and Stormlight.
>But then, the Go-Backs have been breeding without Recognition, so
>it's probably safe to figure that elf plumbing is more or less
>similar to human plumbing. :)
Doesn't hold water. Not enough children out of Recognition. At some point,
hardship or Healery taught the Go-Backs' bodies how to reproduce
human-style. That's all I can come up with to avoid the contradictions of
numbers. The early WR had more cubs outside of Rec...possibly the
wolfblood, being stronger, gave them a better chance at reproducing the way
the wolves do: according to cycle.
>therein that some Go-Back ancestor, by a conscious act of will,
>suppressed Recognition out of the knowledge that it was either
>"start breeding or die, period"....
Yes. Then some sort of internal magic or will, inspired by hardship. Easy
enough. Now does he say that that ancestor was a Go-Back already, or was it
a nomad still? Just wondering HOW long ago, so as to get an idea of age of
Go-Backs in particular. ;)
>happen here. Now that I think about it, cycles seem kind of
>reasonable, Recognition constantly running checks and going,
>"Lessee, there's a possible match, do I wanna go for it or
>wait to see if something better comes along?", ad infinitum.
WHERE ARE THE CUBS FROM CYCLICAL LUCK, then? Ahem. A beloved mentor of
mine explained the way an egg gets fertilized: "egg: one. Huge, in tiny
tiny tube. Sperm: billions, tiny.
Imagine you are standing in a narrow hallway and someone shoots
hundreds of rounds at you with an automatic."
Now, those elves have sex lives that clearly don't depend on latex,
sheepskin, or rythym! So tell me where have all the children gone?
> Actually, I think this is the only way you're going to
>have first sight Recognitions anyway. Like I said in an earlier
>post, "first sight" for all your own tribesmates is going to
>happen when you're still a cub. :)
In the womb, like Tanner and Stormlight...!
>How could it know what skills will or will not be useful in
>the future?
And how could it know what mutations are good or bad? It just avoids them,
it seems to me. I wouldn't trust that with the eons of change.
> (Speaking of Bearclaw and Joyleaf, I *do* find myself
>wondering why it took Recognition so long to kick in with them
>and make Cutter. Everything that we've discussed so far implies
>that Recognition had gotten less picky by the time Bearclaw
>and Joyleaf finally did Recognize... yet, Cutter is theoretically
>a quite fine elf, genetically speaking. One wonders whether
>Cutter was the best possible cub either Bearclaw or Joyleaf
>could have produced! What might have happened if either of them
>had met their genetic match way back in their earliest youth,
>hey?)
Or ever. They would likely have Recognized them, and we would have (barf) a
magicuser. Phaugh! That's *all* we need! The whole stupid mess is more
trouble than it ever was worth, and it's an outdated concept on the WoTM.
The elves have to live with it, but those who can live AROUND it, breed
around it, rather than just within it--THOSE are the elves that are going
to *survive.*
Frost and fresh blood!
Crone
Crone
>>quite lost. It must have happened in New Blood.
> First reference I saw for it was in Hidden Years #2, at the very
>beginning of the first scene in the Sun Village. Wing's Recognized
>is a Sun Villager named Behtia, whom he Recognized at one of the
>Festivals of Flood and Flower.
I'm still hoping that we'll see the nighttime of a Festival and what the
dances get like then...
Crone <thinking along her usual lines>