BTAS Theory (Riddler's Reform Spoilers)
AbeScott
he does on the current animated series. During the episode, Riddler thinks he
has killed Batman and throws his original Riddler costume into a fire, having
no need for the Riddler identity. Batman survived, however, and Riddler goes to
Arkham. Here's where my theory begins; After getting out of Arkham Riddler
probably needed a new costume, and didn't have the money for a nice new suit
like he used to wear as The Riddler. As for his bald head, your guess is as
good as mine. Mabye it fell off after electroshock therapy.
Ty, all us dedicated Bat-fans would LOVE to see an issue detailing why Penguin,
Riddler, Scarecrow and Poison Ivy all look so drasticly diffrent. I'm especialy
interested in knowing just how the heck Penguin went from being The Penguin,
with his 200+ pound weight and flippers to being Oswald Cobblepot, a
diminiutive socalite with a beer gut. No, make that champane gut. And he has
FINGERS! How the heck did he go from flippers to fingers?
P.S I haven't gotten Gotham Adventures 7 yet, so forgive me if this sheds any
light on the whole Penguin thing.
Abe Scott
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"The Enemy is at the gates! And the enemy is the Human Mind itself, or lack of
it, on this planet!" --- General Boy, 'We're all Devo!"
Ty Templeton
to the characters in future episodes of the comic book version of
things, I don't offer any explanation for the Penguin's change in the
upcoming issue, sorry.
As for the Riddler, other than shaving his head and changing his
costume, he's not changed, has he? I think a change in haircut and a
change in costume is a simple enough thing, not worth a story. The
Catwoman LOST YEARS story that we did in #4 of Gotham Adventures had the
hair colour change as part of the story, only because I thought it
really fit....but you'll notice I didn't bother to mention the new
costume, as the story was about the change in Catwoman and Batman's
RELATIONSHIP, which I think was more interesting than a mere change of
clothes. People change clothes. Hockey teams change uniforms, airline
hostesses change uniforms...the army changes uniforms from time to
time...why the Riddler and the Scarecrow and the Catwoman have changed
clothes doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
Why the Penguin, the Joker and a few other, physically look different, I
do plan to address...but I'm afraid the Penguin Lost Years story isn't
written yet.
Ty the Guy.
Jed Wahl
: he does on the current animated series. During the episode, Riddler thinks he
: has killed Batman and throws his original Riddler costume into a fire, having
: no need for the Riddler identity. Batman survived, however, and Riddler goes to
: Arkham. Here's where my theory begins; After getting out of Arkham Riddler
: probably needed a new costume, and didn't have the money for a nice new suit
: like he used to wear as The Riddler. As for his bald head, your guess is as
: good as mine. Mabye it fell off after electroshock therapy.
Maybe his malfunctioning Virtual Reality headset fried it all off. Or maybe
Bruce Timm decided he looked better without any.
: Ty, all us dedicated Bat-fans would LOVE to see an issue detailing why Penguin,
: Riddler, Scarecrow and Poison Ivy all look so drasticly diffrent. I'm especialy
: interested in knowing just how the heck Penguin went from being The Penguin,
: with his 200+ pound weight and flippers to being Oswald Cobblepot, a
: diminiutive socalite with a beer gut. No, make that champane gut. And he has
: FINGERS! How the heck did he go from flippers to fingers?
The answer is simple - Bruce Timm decided to redesign the character - he HAS
ALWAYS had fingers, and HAS ALWAYS been Oswald Cobblepot. The previous
version of the Penguin never existed. Sure, this may be a disappointing
explanation, but come on, do you really expect there to be any other? Just
subsitute the new Penguin for the old whenever you watch older episodes.
I believe that ANY major change in the series which cannot be easily
(REALLY easily) explained should be assumed to be a complete alteration
of the Batman reality. Sure, Catwoman could have dyed (or stopped dying?)
her hair, Riddler, Scarecrow, and Batman could have gotten new suits, Gordon
could have gotten older and more feeble, etc., but there's no way Penguin
and Bruce Wayne could have undergone the total transformations we've seen
in the new style - that's just the way they are, and have always been.
: P.S I haven't gotten Gotham Adventures 7 yet, so forgive me if this sheds any
: light on the whole Penguin thing.
Maybe it does, but I hope not. It would be too far-fetched, IMHO, no matter
how well-conceived and written.
Jed Wahl
wa...@fas.harvard.edu
DkKnightFl
Plastic surgury and alot of fat removal. He wants to fit in with society. he
had the cash, illegal it was. So he did what the rich do. Change his
appearance. How does that sound? Ty? That work for you?
Herbert Han-pu Wang
<"tybunny<unspam>"@idirect.com> wrote:
>hostesses change uniforms...the army changes uniforms from time to
>time...why the Riddler and the Scarecrow and the Catwoman have changed
>clothes doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
>
>Why the Penguin, the Joker and a few other, physically look different, I
>do plan to address...but I'm afraid the Penguin Lost Years story isn't
>written yet.
>
Wow, you're really going to try and tackle that, Ty? I mean, we all
know why everyone looks different--it's because y'all draw 'em
differently now! :) No one ever feels a need to explain why a
character's look can change drastically when the art team on any other
book changes, right? For example, could Kelley Jones' Batman be
anymore different looking than say, (ugh) Jim Aparo's? Does anyone
seriously wonder how Batman grew that enormous chin, or how he keeps
his 12-inch bat-ears from flopping over?
It seems unnecessary and maybe even ill-advised to try and explain the
changes from the old style to the new style. It's just that--style.
One of the most wonderful things about the BTAS universe is that it's
actually a pretty coherent place. When it's really working well, the
stories, situations, and character motivations are all consistent and
completely believable within the constraints of that (admittedly
fantastic) universe. Trying to "explain" why everyone's costume
suddenly looks different and why everyone looks, er, pointier might
require such a suspension of disbelief that the whole thing would fall
apart.
Let's call it artistic license and be done with it!
Han, who has 400pp of reading to do but would rather argue about the
aesthetics of Batman...
Herbert Han-pu Wang
>>
>> Let's call it artistic license and be done with it!
>
>
>story yet. It's not as important to me as it is to others...however, if
>I do find a story in there, I'll write it...that's what I was trying to
>say.
>
>Hey, trust me....I'll be able to write it without knocking over the deck
>of cards when I do, though.
You know, it's funny. In my last post, I added a sentence to the effect of
"if anyone could pull it off though, it'd be Ty" but then erased it at the
last minute because I thought it sounded too sycophantic! I think we all
trust you, Ty!
Also, as an aside, I accept (and like) most of the new versions of the
characters, with the exception of the Scarecrow. I know he's popular around
here, but he seems like one example where not only did his look change, but
his whole character seems to have been altered. He's a lot bigger, and kind
of scary now. Are we to believe that it's still meek (but twisted) Dr. Crane
under all of that get-up?
Han
Alan Travis
> The Scarecrow has a new backstory that I've heard from some of the folks
> at WB that I'm not allowed to reveal, and that explains a lot of his new
> look and costume. It's a good'un, and I wish I could write it up, but
> I'm not allowed. Supposedly, someday it's going to be an episode.
>
> Ty
That's interesting, Ty. How much interaction is there between the
Adventures books and the shows? Do they give you guys the low down on
all the changes between the old and new Bat shows?
Also, TY, have you ever thought about writing an episode? You'd be
great. ---Alan
Ty Templeton
That's more or less why I haven't gotten around to writing that Penguin
story yet. It's not as important to me as it is to others...however, if
I do find a story in there, I'll write it...that's what I was trying to
say.
Hey, trust me....I'll be able to write it without knocking over the deck
of cards when I do, though.
Ty the Guy. (Used to have flipper hands myself.)
Ty Templeton
> Also, as an aside, I accept (and like) most of the new versions of the
> characters, with the exception of the Scarecrow. I know he's popular around
> here, but he seems like one example where not only did his look change, but
> his whole character seems to have been altered. He's a lot bigger, and kind
> of scary now. Are we to believe that it's still meek (but twisted) Dr. Crane
> under all of that get-up?
>
> Han
Thanks for the earlier kind words.
Ty Templeton
How much interaction is there between the
> Adventures books and the shows? Do they give you guys the low down on
> all the changes between the old and new Bat shows?
>
> Also, TY, have you ever thought about writing an episode? You'd be
> great. ---Alan
There's some interaction, but I wouldn't say a lot. I've talked to Paul
and Bruce a couple of times, but it's not like I talk to them regularly.
I think Rick talks to Paul more than I do. More than anything, the
editor talks to them, and then he talks to me.
As to writing an episode, I would dearly love to, but no one has ever
asked me. I've dropped a few hints ( I suppose I'm dropping one now)
and I've asked folks to mention it to Paul or Bruce, but nothing's ever
come of it. I don't think it's appropriate for me to call Paul up and
ask to write one though...
But if they ever offer, I'd be delighted.
Ty the Guy.
Juliesback
>Date: 10/15/98 12:49 AM !!!First Boot!!!
>Message-id: <362546...@idirect.com>
>
>While I plan to eventually give stories that explain SOME of the changes
>to the characters in future episodes of the comic book version of
>things, I don't offer any explanation for the Penguin's change in the
>upcoming issue, sorry.
>
retroactive (much like The Joker's). IIRC, Dini and company weren't thrilled
with having to make the Penquin and Catwoman resemble their BATMAN RETURNS
counterparts, which is why they both went back to their original designs the
first chance they got.
>Why the Penguin, the Joker and a few other, physically look different, I
>do plan to address...but I'm afraid the Penguin Lost Years story isn't
>written yet.
>
Ahh, so there's going to be a *reason* for The Joker's change in appearance?
Interesting. I look forward to reading it.
Oh and any chance of getting you on the regular Batman titles? They really need
you! I might start reading them again!
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______________________________________
Stephen Robinson
scholar, lover, crimefighter
"Quiet! Or Papa spank!"
-Batman to Selina Kyle in BATMAN #1