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What about relationships, are there any relationships in Sci-fi?
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Bozo de Niro
Sep 21, 2011, 2:48:49 AM9/21/11
to
I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
Joel Olson
Sep 21, 2011, 3:55:49 AM9/21/11
to
"Bozo de Niro" <Bozo_D...@37.com> wrote in message
news:a547c8ae-7919-4aa8...@d12g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
news:a547c8ae-7919-4aa8...@d12g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>
Their names both star with "Star".
>
Bozo de Niro
Sep 21, 2011, 4:49:47 AM9/21/11
to
On Sep 21, 12:55 am, "Joel Olson" <joel.ol...@cox.net> wrote:
> "Bozo de Niro" <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote in messagenews:a547c8ae-7919-4aa8...@d12g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> "Bozo de Niro" <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote in messagenews:a547c8ae-7919-4aa8...@d12g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>
> Their names both star with "Star".
lol.
> >I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>
> Their names both star with "Star".
Robert Carnegie
Sep 21, 2011, 8:22:07 AM9/21/11
to
Bozo de Niro wrote:
> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
The one most often celebrated is Kirk/Spock.
> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
Then, there's Han, solo.
(We don't talk about his "friend".)
Apparently the latest Star Trek film is a deliberate planetary
bromance...
Quadibloc
Sep 21, 2011, 9:36:18 AM9/21/11
to
On Sep 21, 12:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
In Star Trek, Spock was the son of Sarek and Amanda.
> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
In Star Wars, Luke Skywalker was the brother of Leia Organa; both were
the children of Anakin Skywalker, who became Darth Vader. Also, Leia
Organa married Han Solo.
Also, people were related to each other by being friends as well, but
that would be a longer list.
John Savard
Will in New Haven
Sep 21, 2011, 11:52:02 AM9/21/11
to
On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
relationship-light SF that was very good also.
--
Will in New Haven
"He only did what he had to do; and now he's growing old."
Townes Van Zandt - "Pancho and Lefty
Lynn McGuire
Sep 21, 2011, 12:19:37 PM9/21/11
to
Lynn
Dorothy J Heydt
Sep 21, 2011, 12:19:26 PM9/21/11
to
In article <94c6a635-4be4-456b...@p4g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
still be reading them.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
>> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>
>Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
>relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
>SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
>relationship-light SF that was very good also.
>
Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
>On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
>> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>
>Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
>relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
>SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
>relationship-light SF that was very good also.
>
large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
still be reading them.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
Bill Swears
Sep 21, 2011, 12:46:51 PM9/21/11
to
On Sep 21, 7:52 am, Will in New Haven
I think that the relationship of Captain to ship and crew is very
real, but it's hard to quantify. I don't think that T.V. Star Trek or
TNG really did a good job with the execution of that relationship,
settling for making the ship a vehicle to place the Captain in
jeopardy. Both Kirk and Picard were in many ways failures as
commanding officers, unable to grow beyond self imposed limits, which
largely was in service of plot and stereotype. Picard, as an example,
was supposed to be this great ambassador. He should have fleeted up
to rear admiral and been put in charge of the fleet, of which
Enterprise was theoretically the flagship.
Bill
real, but it's hard to quantify. I don't think that T.V. Star Trek or
TNG really did a good job with the execution of that relationship,
settling for making the ship a vehicle to place the Captain in
jeopardy. Both Kirk and Picard were in many ways failures as
commanding officers, unable to grow beyond self imposed limits, which
largely was in service of plot and stereotype. Picard, as an example,
was supposed to be this great ambassador. He should have fleeted up
to rear admiral and been put in charge of the fleet, of which
Enterprise was theoretically the flagship.
Bill
Wayne Throop
Sep 21, 2011, 12:45:55 PM9/21/11
to
::: I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
:: Their names both star with "Star".
: lol.
Huh. I thought it was Orion slave girls / Leia in a bikini.
:: Their names both star with "Star".
: lol.
Splicer
Sep 21, 2011, 12:55:33 PM9/21/11
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote on 21 Sep 2011:
> Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
> large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
> still be reading them.
>
I have not read one book by Bujold but now I'm curious especially because
> Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
> large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
> still be reading them.
>
of this "squickitude" you speak of.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Sep 21, 2011, 1:08:22 PM9/21/11
to
had to do with one of the genetically engineered curiosities seen in one
of the books.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Will in New Haven
Sep 21, 2011, 1:30:03 PM9/21/11
to
fleet." Never shown in company with other ships, or almost never, and
Picard (or whatsisname before him) never being "only" the flag captain
with some sort of Admiral or Space Marshall hovering over his
shoulder.
But the relationships among the various crew folk were indeed the
heart of the series, so much so that they managed to pretty much
ignore a Dyson Sphere in one film because an old engineer showed up.
Dorothy J Heydt
Sep 21, 2011, 1:14:36 PM9/21/11
to
In article <Xns9F678392...@216.196.97.131>,
You may not even find it squicky. Who knows? You'd have to see
for yourself. I'm NOT going to describe it.
for yourself. I'm NOT going to describe it.
Dorothy J Heydt
Sep 21, 2011, 1:16:16 PM9/21/11
to
In article <j5d5m6$ahj$1...@dont-email.me>,
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 9/21/11 12:55 PM, Splicer wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote on 21 Sep 2011:
>>
>>> Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
>>> large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
>>> still be reading them.
>>>
>>
>> I have not read one book by Bujold but now I'm curious especially because
>> of this "squickitude" you speak of.
>
>Dorothy has a low threshold. IIRC the straw that broke the camel's back
>had to do with one of the genetically engineered curiosities seen in one
>of the books.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 9/21/11 12:55 PM, Splicer wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote on 21 Sep 2011:
>>
>>> Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
>>> large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
>>> still be reading them.
>>>
>>
>> I have not read one book by Bujold but now I'm curious especially because
>> of this "squickitude" you speak of.
>
>Dorothy has a low threshold. IIRC the straw that broke the camel's back
>had to do with one of the genetically engineered curiosities seen in one
>of the books.
Delicately put, thank you.
But the generally disgusting nature of, say, Jackson's Whole over
several books was building up a Bearnaise sauce reaction in me,
and the straw you mention did break my camel's back and I haven't
read Bujold since.
Will in New Haven
Sep 21, 2011, 1:50:54 PM9/21/11
to
On Sep 21, 1:16 pm, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <j5d5m6$ah...@dont-email.me>,
in SF. I found what was the back-breaker for you much more annoying.
But I wouldn't have missed _Curse of Chalion_ or the two related books
for the world.
> In article <j5d5m6$ah...@dont-email.me>,
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> >On 9/21/11 12:55 PM, Splicer wrote:
>
> >On 9/21/11 12:55 PM, Splicer wrote:
> >> djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote on 21 Sep 2011:
>
> >>> Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
> >>> large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
> >>> still be reading them.
>
> >> I have not read one book by Bujold but now I'm curious especially because
> >> of this "squickitude" you speak of.
>
> >Dorothy has a low threshold. IIRC the straw that broke the camel's back
> >had to do with one of the genetically engineered curiosities seen in one
> >of the books.
>
> Delicately put, thank you.
>
> But the generally disgusting nature of, say, Jackson's Whole over
> several books was building up a Bearnaise sauce reaction in me,
> and the straw you mention did break my camel's back and I haven't
> read Bujold since.
Jackson's Whole _is_ pretty awful but awful societies are very common
>
> >>> Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
> >>> large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
> >>> still be reading them.
>
> >> I have not read one book by Bujold but now I'm curious especially because
> >> of this "squickitude" you speak of.
>
> >Dorothy has a low threshold. IIRC the straw that broke the camel's back
> >had to do with one of the genetically engineered curiosities seen in one
> >of the books.
>
> Delicately put, thank you.
>
> But the generally disgusting nature of, say, Jackson's Whole over
> several books was building up a Bearnaise sauce reaction in me,
> and the straw you mention did break my camel's back and I haven't
> read Bujold since.
in SF. I found what was the back-breaker for you much more annoying.
But I wouldn't have missed _Curse of Chalion_ or the two related books
for the world.
Lynn McGuire
Sep 21, 2011, 3:09:50 PM9/21/11
to
On 9/21/2011 12:16 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article<j5d5m6$ahj$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 9/21/11 12:55 PM, Splicer wrote:
>>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote on 21 Sep 2011:
>>>
>>>> Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
>>>> large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
>>>> still be reading them.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have not read one book by Bujold but now I'm curious especially because
>>> of this "squickitude" you speak of.
>>
>> Dorothy has a low threshold. IIRC the straw that broke the camel's back
>> had to do with one of the genetically engineered curiosities seen in one
>> of the books.
>
> Delicately put, thank you.
>
> But the generally disgusting nature of, say, Jackson's Whole over
> several books was building up a Bearnaise sauce reaction in me,
> and the straw you mention did break my camel's back and I haven't
> read Bujold since.
Hmmm. Could it be the Quaddies ? No, I think not.
> In article<j5d5m6$ahj$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 9/21/11 12:55 PM, Splicer wrote:
>>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote on 21 Sep 2011:
>>>
>>>> Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
>>>> large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
>>>> still be reading them.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have not read one book by Bujold but now I'm curious especially because
>>> of this "squickitude" you speak of.
>>
>> Dorothy has a low threshold. IIRC the straw that broke the camel's back
>> had to do with one of the genetically engineered curiosities seen in one
>> of the books.
>
> Delicately put, thank you.
>
> But the generally disgusting nature of, say, Jackson's Whole over
> several books was building up a Bearnaise sauce reaction in me,
> and the straw you mention did break my camel's back and I haven't
> read Bujold since.
Could it be Sergeant Tara ? The idea of her in a pink
nightgown and painted talons is a scary idea for any
man. No, I think not.
Could it be the stuffing of dead Miles into the cold
box and throwing out the other recent inhabitant ?
I think not.
Was it the torture scene of Mark where he was gorged
and flayed ? Very gross but I think not.
I think that it was the child clones grown for the
purpose of transplanting old peoples brains into them
and disposing of their brains. Ughh. Totally nasty
but not enough to justify killing the series for me.
Lynn
Dorothy J Heydt
Sep 21, 2011, 4:04:50 PM9/21/11
to
Yes, that was pretty damn squicky, but you still haven't named
the thing that turned me off for good. And I'd rather not.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Sep 21, 2011, 4:41:17 PM9/21/11
to
On 9/21/11 4:04 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
Lynn: I won't name it either, but I will say that you're looking at the
wrong kind of thing. This isn't something that most people would squick
badly at; it's something that many people just pass over with a "hm,
interesting" reaction. At least if I recall correctly, it stems from a
very personal reaction on Dorothy's part, not from a reaction that you'd
expect most people to have (as in the new clones for old and the torture
examples).
wrong kind of thing. This isn't something that most people would squick
badly at; it's something that many people just pass over with a "hm,
interesting" reaction. At least if I recall correctly, it stems from a
very personal reaction on Dorothy's part, not from a reaction that you'd
expect most people to have (as in the new clones for old and the torture
examples).
Wayne Throop
Sep 21, 2011, 2:39:30 PM9/21/11
to
: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: You may not even find it squicky. Who knows? You'd have to see for
one item of squick into *every* book, and was wondering what the
squick was in "Miles in Love" (aka "Komarr" + "A Civil Campaign" +
"Winterfair Gifts"). I was thinking "hm, maybe the cetagandan
scalps", but then settled on Ellie's wedding gift. Not the pearls,
those were a forgery. And not the limerick.
Oh well. Is there any squick in K+aCC? The cetagandan scalps,
but still... doesn't really seem squicky to me. It's described
somewhat clinically and abstractly, and with no immediacy to the
people present.
: You may not even find it squicky. Who knows? You'd have to see for
: yourself. I'm NOT going to describe it.
I was meditating on the earlier comment that Bujold puts at least
one item of squick into *every* book, and was wondering what the
squick was in "Miles in Love" (aka "Komarr" + "A Civil Campaign" +
"Winterfair Gifts"). I was thinking "hm, maybe the cetagandan
scalps", but then settled on Ellie's wedding gift. Not the pearls,
those were a forgery. And not the limerick.
Oh well. Is there any squick in K+aCC? The cetagandan scalps,
but still... doesn't really seem squicky to me. It's described
somewhat clinically and abstractly, and with no immediacy to the
people present.
Dorothy J Heydt
Sep 21, 2011, 5:05:53 PM9/21/11
to
In article <j5di5d$525$1...@dont-email.me>,
That could well be. However, as C. S. Lewis put it (quoting St.
Augustine, I think), sensation is sensation. One feels the way
one feels.
Augustine, I think), sensation is sensation. One feels the way
one feels.
David Friedman
Sep 21, 2011, 5:42:11 PM9/21/11
to
In article
<94c6a635-4be4-456b...@p4g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
<94c6a635-4be4-456b...@p4g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
> > I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>
> Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
> relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
> SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
> relationship-light SF that was very good also.
Cherryh's _Paladin_ is sf but not really sci-fi. The relationship
> > I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>
> Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
> relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
> SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
> relationship-light SF that was very good also.
between the couple there is central to the book.
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
_Salamander_: http://tinyurl.com/6957y7e
_How to Milk an Almond,..._ http://tinyurl.com/63xg8gx
Joel Olson
Sep 21, 2011, 5:49:30 PM9/21/11
to
"Dorothy J Heydt" <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in message
news:Lrvs0...@kithrup.com...
So what is "squickitude"? Everyone seems to have a good handle on
the term except me.
news:Lrvs0...@kithrup.com...
the term except me.
David Friedman
Sep 21, 2011, 5:51:55 PM9/21/11
to
In article <LrvuK...@kithrup.com>,
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <Xns9F678392...@216.196.97.131>,
> Splicer <nom...@nomail.com> wrote:
> >djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote on 21 Sep 2011:
> >
> >> Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
> >> large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
> >> still be reading them.
> >>
> >
> >I have not read one book by Bujold but now I'm curious especially because
> >of this "squickitude" you speak of.
>
> You may not even find it squicky. Who knows? You'd have to see
> for yourself. I'm NOT going to describe it.
Dorothy may squick more easily than some of us. It isn't a term I would
have used to describe Bujold's work.
Kurt Busiek
Sep 21, 2011, 5:57:39 PM9/21/11
to
On 2011-09-21 14:49:30 -0700, "Joel Olson" <joel....@cox.net> said:
> "Dorothy J Heydt" <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in message
> news:Lrvs0...@kithrup.com...
>> In article <94c6a635-4be4-456b...@p4g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
>> Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>>> On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
>>>> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>>>
>>> Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
>>> relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
>>> SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
>>> relationship-light SF that was very good also.
>>>
>> Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
>> large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
>> still be reading them.
>
> "Dorothy J Heydt" <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in message
> news:Lrvs0...@kithrup.com...
>> In article <94c6a635-4be4-456b...@p4g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
>> Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>>> On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
>>>> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>>>
>>> Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
>>> relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
>>> SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
>>> relationship-light SF that was very good also.
>>>
>> Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
>> large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
>> still be reading them.
>
> So what is "squickitude"? Everyone seems to have a good handle on
> the term except me.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Squick
> the term except me.
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Taki Kogoma
Sep 21, 2011, 6:05:32 PM9/21/11
to
On 2011-09-21, Joel Olson <joel....@cox.net>
allegedly proclaimed to rec.arts.sf.written:
<http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Squick>
Gym "The entry itself will take up a few minutes. Following the links
may consume the rest of your life..." Quirk
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk (Known to some as Taki Kogoma) quirk @ swcp.com
Just an article detector on the Information Supercollider.
allegedly proclaimed to rec.arts.sf.written:
> So what is "squickitude"? Everyone seems to have a good handle on
> the term except me.
If you've got a few hours to spare, see:
> the term except me.
<http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Squick>
Gym "The entry itself will take up a few minutes. Following the links
may consume the rest of your life..." Quirk
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk (Known to some as Taki Kogoma) quirk @ swcp.com
Just an article detector on the Information Supercollider.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Sep 21, 2011, 6:10:16 PM9/21/11
to
The "eeeewwww" reaction that one might imagine being evoked by
something the reader finds *WRONG* not in a moral, but in a basic
reaction sense. I get the reaction from having to put my hands in a sink
that's had dirty water in it for a few days. Others get it from sexual
interests that depart FAR from their norms. Others from seeing graphic
depictions of violence, gore, etc.
Dorothy J Heydt
Sep 21, 2011, 6:59:16 PM9/21/11
to
In article <xr-dndhP7Ot6xufT...@supernews.com>,
seriously disturbing to think that anyone would conceive of doing
it. It apparently derives from a way-out sexual practice that I
will not attempt to describe.
Joel Olson <joel....@cox.net> wrote:
>"Dorothy J Heydt" <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in message
>news:Lrvs0...@kithrup.com...
>> In article <94c6a635-4be4-456b...@p4g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
>> Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>>>On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
>>>> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>>>
>>>Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
>>>relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
>>>SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
>>>relationship-light SF that was very good also.
>>>
>> Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
>> large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
>> still be reading them.
>>
>
>"Dorothy J Heydt" <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in message
>news:Lrvs0...@kithrup.com...
>> In article <94c6a635-4be4-456b...@p4g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
>> Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>>>On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
>>>> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>>>
>>>Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
>>>relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
>>>SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
>>>relationship-light SF that was very good also.
>>>
>> Yes, she writes well, and if she weren't so determined to include
>> large dollops of squickitude into every books she writes, I would
>> still be reading them.
>>
>
>So what is "squickitude"? Everyone seems to have a good handle on
>the term except me.
Anything that you find particularly nauseating, disgusting,
>the term except me.
seriously disturbing to think that anyone would conceive of doing
it. It apparently derives from a way-out sexual practice that I
will not attempt to describe.
David DeLaney
Sep 21, 2011, 8:54:02 PM9/21/11
to
Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>: You may not even find it squicky. Who knows? You'd have to see for
>: yourself. I'm NOT going to describe it.
>
>I was meditating on the earlier comment that Bujold puts at least
>one item of squick into *every* book, and was wondering what the
>squick was in "Miles in Love" (aka "Komarr" + "A Civil Campaign" +
>"Winterfair Gifts"). I was thinking "hm, maybe the cetagandan
>scalps", but then settled on Ellie's wedding gift. Not the pearls,
>those were a forgery. And not the limerick.
Butter bugs and the guy who died next to Miles don't qualify?
>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>: You may not even find it squicky. Who knows? You'd have to see for
>: yourself. I'm NOT going to describe it.
>
>I was meditating on the earlier comment that Bujold puts at least
>one item of squick into *every* book, and was wondering what the
>squick was in "Miles in Love" (aka "Komarr" + "A Civil Campaign" +
>"Winterfair Gifts"). I was thinking "hm, maybe the cetagandan
>scalps", but then settled on Ellie's wedding gift. Not the pearls,
>those were a forgery. And not the limerick.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Wayne Throop
Sep 21, 2011, 8:49:36 PM9/21/11
to
:: I think that it was the child clones grown for the purpose of
: Yes, that was pretty damn squicky, but you still haven't named the
it was discussed abstractly and only occured off-screen. Unless I'm
mis-remembering.
The actual camel's-bane straw was described graphically, and on-screen,
right in front of the protagonist. Again iirc.
:: transplanting old peoples brains into them and disposing of their
:: brains. Ughh. Totally nasty but not enough to justify killing the
:: series for me.
: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
:: brains. Ughh. Totally nasty but not enough to justify killing the
:: series for me.
: Yes, that was pretty damn squicky, but you still haven't named the
: thing that turned me off for good. And I'd rather not.
The squick value of that was fairly minimal, as such things go, since
it was discussed abstractly and only occured off-screen. Unless I'm
mis-remembering.
The actual camel's-bane straw was described graphically, and on-screen,
right in front of the protagonist. Again iirc.
Wayne Throop
Sep 21, 2011, 8:55:56 PM9/21/11
to
:: Yes, that was pretty damn squicky, but you still haven't named the
: Lynn: I won't name it either, but I will say that you're looking at
it to be squicky. But not nearly enough to throw out the infant
with the used cleansing solution.
And it wasn't Jacksonian. The perpetrator was far more... remote and cold,
than a mere Jacksonian. Despite Miles getting on with many of them.
Well. IIRC. And of course mileage may vary wrt these perps.
Ivan, you idiot.
Across the gulf of space, minds that are to our minds as ours are to
those of the beasts that perish, intellects vast and cool and
unsympathetic, regarded this earth with envious eyes...
:: thing that turned me off for good. And I'd rather not.
: "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com>
: Lynn: I won't name it either, but I will say that you're looking at
: the wrong kind of thing. This isn't something that most people would
: squick badly at; it's something that many people just pass over with a
: "hm, interesting" reaction. At least if I recall correctly, it stems
: from a very personal reaction on Dorothy's part, not from a reaction
: that you'd expect most people to have (as in the new clones for old
: and the torture examples).
Well *I* wouldn't pass it off as "hm, interesting"; I certainly found
: squick badly at; it's something that many people just pass over with a
: "hm, interesting" reaction. At least if I recall correctly, it stems
: from a very personal reaction on Dorothy's part, not from a reaction
: that you'd expect most people to have (as in the new clones for old
: and the torture examples).
it to be squicky. But not nearly enough to throw out the infant
with the used cleansing solution.
And it wasn't Jacksonian. The perpetrator was far more... remote and cold,
than a mere Jacksonian. Despite Miles getting on with many of them.
Well. IIRC. And of course mileage may vary wrt these perps.
Ivan, you idiot.
Across the gulf of space, minds that are to our minds as ours are to
those of the beasts that perish, intellects vast and cool and
unsympathetic, regarded this earth with envious eyes...
Wayne Throop
Sep 21, 2011, 9:12:42 PM9/21/11
to
: d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
: Butter bugs and the guy who died next to Miles don't qualify?
Hm, possibly the description of butter bugs would squick some folks.
If they had a relevant insect-related phobia. To me, it was more like
*saying* they were disgusting, as opposed to describing their physical
appearance in a way that made you *feel* they were disgusting. To me.
Similarly, "that was a very ugly way to die", but I dunno. Maybe, again,
if they had a relevant phobia, it'd shake you; I found it to be fairly
clinical in terms of visceral reactions. Miles didn't react as he did,
and injure himself as he did, out of squick, but out of... boundless
guilt-edged knight-errantry or something. It seems to me.
: Butter bugs and the guy who died next to Miles don't qualify?
Hm, possibly the description of butter bugs would squick some folks.
If they had a relevant insect-related phobia. To me, it was more like
*saying* they were disgusting, as opposed to describing their physical
appearance in a way that made you *feel* they were disgusting. To me.
Similarly, "that was a very ugly way to die", but I dunno. Maybe, again,
if they had a relevant phobia, it'd shake you; I found it to be fairly
clinical in terms of visceral reactions. Miles didn't react as he did,
and injure himself as he did, out of squick, but out of... boundless
guilt-edged knight-errantry or something. It seems to me.
Wayne Throop
Sep 21, 2011, 9:19:12 PM9/21/11
to
:: So what is "squickitude"?
: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: Anything that you find particularly nauseating, disgusting, seriously
: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: Anything that you find particularly nauseating, disgusting, seriously
: disturbing to think that anyone would conceive of doing it. It
: apparently derives from a way-out sexual practice that I will not
: attempt to describe.
Belongs in the onomatopoetic thread over there ---> I suppose...
: apparently derives from a way-out sexual practice that I will not
: attempt to describe.
William December Starr
Sep 21, 2011, 10:28:39 PM9/21/11
to
In article <dd52ced1-d162-4570...@u19g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
appropriate task for a ship like the Enterprise-D at that time.
"Is it occupied?"
"Doesn't seem to be, sir."
"Did it start blinking 'Galactic Conquest System Activated'
when we showed up?"
"Not that we noticed, sir."
"Good. Send Starfleet a message about it and let the Vulcan Science
Academy or the Daystrom Institute or somebody spend seventy years
trying to figure it out. We've got places to be and things to do."
-- wds
Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> said:
> The E was only the flagship if that meant "the coolest ship in the
> fleet." Never shown in company with other ships, or almost never,
> and Picard (or whatsisname before him) never being "only" the flag
> captain with some sort of Admiral or Space Marshall hovering over
> his shoulder.
>
> But the relationships among the various crew folk were indeed the
> heart of the series, so much so that they managed to pretty much
> ignore a Dyson Sphere in one film because an old engineer showed
> up.
Episode. And really, exploring something that size isn't an
> The E was only the flagship if that meant "the coolest ship in the
> fleet." Never shown in company with other ships, or almost never,
> and Picard (or whatsisname before him) never being "only" the flag
> captain with some sort of Admiral or Space Marshall hovering over
> his shoulder.
>
> But the relationships among the various crew folk were indeed the
> heart of the series, so much so that they managed to pretty much
> ignore a Dyson Sphere in one film because an old engineer showed
> up.
appropriate task for a ship like the Enterprise-D at that time.
"Is it occupied?"
"Doesn't seem to be, sir."
"Did it start blinking 'Galactic Conquest System Activated'
when we showed up?"
"Not that we noticed, sir."
"Good. Send Starfleet a message about it and let the Vulcan Science
Academy or the Daystrom Institute or somebody spend seventy years
trying to figure it out. We've got places to be and things to do."
-- wds
J.Pascal
Sep 21, 2011, 11:47:01 PM9/21/11
to
On Sep 21, 10:55 am, Splicer <nom...@nomail.com> wrote:
Dorothy doesn't like the things with the cats.
I don't find it all too enormously squicky, but she does write about
biological stuff quite often.
-Julie
I don't find it all too enormously squicky, but she does write about
biological stuff quite often.
-Julie
Bozo de Niro
Sep 22, 2011, 1:28:57 AM9/22/11
to
On Sep 21, 3:05 pm, Taki Kogoma <qu...@tenma.swcp.com> wrote:
> On 2011-09-21, Joel Olson <joel.ol...@cox.net>
> allegedly proclaimed to rec.arts.sf.written:
>
> > So what is "squickitude"? Everyone seems to have a good handle on
> > the term except me.
>
> On 2011-09-21, Joel Olson <joel.ol...@cox.net>
> allegedly proclaimed to rec.arts.sf.written:
>
> > So what is "squickitude"? Everyone seems to have a good handle on
> > the term except me.
>
sounds like cooties, or the response to it?
Squickitude: the attitude little girls display towards the notion of
cooties
if it gets nods of approval, I'll post it in Urban Dictionary
Greg Goss
Sep 22, 2011, 4:03:17 AM9/22/11
to
sun at the center was going to nova. Perhaps something else. I got
the impression that the thing wasn't going to be around to examine
later.
--
"If the Gods Had Meant Us to Vote They Would Have Given Us Candidates" (Jim Hightower)
Robert Carnegie
Sep 22, 2011, 7:47:21 AM9/22/11
to
On Sep 22, 9:03 am, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> wdst...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <dd52ced1-d162-4570-a9db-8e5411b8e...@u19g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
> >Will in New Haven <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> said:
>
> >> The E was only the flagship if that meant "the coolest ship in the
> >> fleet." Never shown in company with other ships, or almost never,
> >> and Picard (or whatsisname before him) never being "only" the flag
> >> captain with some sort of Admiral or Space Marshall hovering over
> >> his shoulder.
>
> >> But the relationships among the various crew folk were indeed the
> >> heart of the series, so much so that they managed to pretty much
> >> ignore a Dyson Sphere in one film because an old engineer showed
> >> up.
>
> >Episode. And really, exploring something that size isn't an
> >appropriate task for a ship like the Enterprise-D at that time.
>
> >"Is it occupied?"
>
> > "Doesn't seem to be, sir."
>
> >"Did it start blinking 'Galactic Conquest System Activated'
> >when we showed up?"
>
> > "Not that we noticed, sir."
>
> >"Good. Send Starfleet a message about it and let the Vulcan Science
> >Academy or the Daystrom Institute or somebody spend seventy years
> >trying to figure it out. We've got places to be and things to do."
>
> I thought that the Dyson sphere was doomed in some way. Perhaps the
> sun at the center was going to nova. Perhaps something else. I got
> the impression that the thing wasn't going to be around to examine
> later.
> wdst...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <dd52ced1-d162-4570-a9db-8e5411b8e...@u19g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
> >Will in New Haven <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> said:
>
> >> The E was only the flagship if that meant "the coolest ship in the
> >> fleet." Never shown in company with other ships, or almost never,
> >> and Picard (or whatsisname before him) never being "only" the flag
> >> captain with some sort of Admiral or Space Marshall hovering over
> >> his shoulder.
>
> >> But the relationships among the various crew folk were indeed the
> >> heart of the series, so much so that they managed to pretty much
> >> ignore a Dyson Sphere in one film because an old engineer showed
> >> up.
>
> >Episode. And really, exploring something that size isn't an
> >appropriate task for a ship like the Enterprise-D at that time.
>
> >"Is it occupied?"
>
> > "Doesn't seem to be, sir."
>
> >"Did it start blinking 'Galactic Conquest System Activated'
> >when we showed up?"
>
> > "Not that we noticed, sir."
>
> >"Good. Send Starfleet a message about it and let the Vulcan Science
> >Academy or the Daystrom Institute or somebody spend seventy years
> >trying to figure it out. We've got places to be and things to do."
>
> I thought that the Dyson sphere was doomed in some way. Perhaps the
> sun at the center was going to nova. Perhaps something else. I got
> the impression that the thing wasn't going to be around to examine
> later.
I forget, but being deserted wasn't a good sign. Also, I think the
Enterprise was shut inside it.
A Dyson sphere is a fantastic hypothetical constructed object, a
star's pltanets deliberately smeared out into a solid shell right
around the star, at a safe range. There are grounds to be sceptical
as to whether this will work. If it does, the civilisation that can
exist inside it - or on the outside if you prefer - is comparable to a
whole galaxy of people who live on planets in the ordinary way.
(Maybe a small galaxy. There are small galaxies.)
I don't think this was brought out in the story. (Was it even a two-
parter?)
Robert Carnegie
Sep 22, 2011, 7:49:39 AM9/22/11
to
contact with girls, expressing their concern in terms of germs.
Robert Carnegie
Sep 22, 2011, 7:50:54 AM9/22/11
to
> : djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
'Cause that's the noise it makes.
(Which was your point, I guess.)
(Which was your point, I guess.)
Walter Bushell
Sep 22, 2011, 12:05:51 PM9/22/11
to
In article
<031fc778-83dd-49a6...@l7g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>,
Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
<031fc778-83dd-49a6...@l7g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>,
Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> Jackson's Whole _is_ pretty awful but awful societies are very common
> in SF.
Excluding awful societies would be unrealistic. Jackson's Whole is
stated to "exist" because it's useful to the more benign planets, just
like cesspools places in our world.
>I found what was the back-breaker for you much more annoying.
> But I wouldn't have missed _Curse of Chalion_ or the two related books
> for the world.
--
Ignorance is no protection against reality. -- Paul J Gans
Walter Bushell
Sep 22, 2011, 12:11:14 PM9/22/11
to
In article <13166...@sheol.org>, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
wrote:
wrote:
Squick is not objective. Some people can find a description of a dinner
party squicky.
Walter Bushell
Sep 22, 2011, 12:14:06 PM9/22/11
to
In article
<dbdd354e-a587-42ed...@f8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
"J.Pascal" <ju...@pascal.org> wrote:
<dbdd354e-a587-42ed...@f8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
"J.Pascal" <ju...@pascal.org> wrote:
I find her books much less squicky than almost any combat footage.
Dorothy J Heydt
Sep 22, 2011, 1:23:09 PM9/22/11
to
In article <fdff474d-207f-45df...@fe21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
Bozo de Niro <Bozo_D...@37.com> wrote:
>On Sep 21, 3:05 pm, Taki Kogoma <qu...@tenma.swcp.com> wrote:
>> On 2011-09-21, Joel Olson <joel.ol...@cox.net>
>> allegedly proclaimed to rec.arts.sf.written:
>>
>> > So what is "squickitude"? Everyone seems to have a good handle on
>> > the term except me.
>>
>
>sounds like cooties, or the response to it?
>
>Squickitude: the attitude little girls display towards the notion of
>cooties
Bozo de Niro <Bozo_D...@37.com> wrote:
>On Sep 21, 3:05 pm, Taki Kogoma <qu...@tenma.swcp.com> wrote:
>> On 2011-09-21, Joel Olson <joel.ol...@cox.net>
>> allegedly proclaimed to rec.arts.sf.written:
>>
>> > So what is "squickitude"? Everyone seems to have a good handle on
>> > the term except me.
>>
>
>sounds like cooties, or the response to it?
>
>Squickitude: the attitude little girls display towards the notion of
>cooties
Um ... in my experience it's little *boys* who abreact against
the very concept of girl cooties, which girls have just from
being girls.
Wayne Throop
Sep 22, 2011, 2:00:03 PM9/22/11
to
: Bozo de Niro <Bozo_D...@37.com>
: sounds like cooties, or the response to it?
In the second entry, it gives the onomatopoetic origin of the term.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squick
: sounds like cooties, or the response to it?
:
: Squickitude: the attitude little girls display towards the notion of
: cooties
:
: if it gets nods of approval, I'll post it in Urban Dictionary
It wasn't already there? Odd. Google says it's there now.
: Squickitude: the attitude little girls display towards the notion of
: cooties
:
: if it gets nods of approval, I'll post it in Urban Dictionary
In the second entry, it gives the onomatopoetic origin of the term.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squick
Shawn Wilson
Sep 22, 2011, 2:45:08 PM9/22/11
to
On Sep 22, 9:05 am, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> > Jackson's Whole _is_ pretty awful but awful societies are very common
> > in SF.
>
> Excluding awful societies would be unrealistic. Jackson's Whole is
> stated to "exist" because it's useful to the more benign planets, just
> like cesspools places in our world.
And actually, for the ordinary people Jackson's Whole is likely a
perfectly fine place to live and better than a lot of others. The /
issues/ were in the higher power structure, which ordinary people
wouldn't be affected by. We've seen worse things on Earth after all,
many times.
Wayne Throop
Sep 22, 2011, 3:12:58 PM9/22/11
to
: Shawn Wilson <ikono...@gmail.com>
: And actually, for the ordinary people Jackson's Whole is likely a
weren't "ordinary people" then, despite their large fraction of the
population.
Mind you, on the other hand, we do see relevant evidence in Diplomatic
Immunity, specifically Russo ("Guppy") Gupta, who expresses some comfort
taken in having been protected by a major House... except of course that
major Houses tend to discard people who become at all inconvenient.
And tend to consume each other in hostile takovers both partial and
complete and run purges, etc, etc, etc.
Not sure I've found any places where the hoy polloi have it worse, in a
statistically average pleasantness and lack of precariousness of position.
Can anybody name any? Hm. Possibly wheresitz, in Cryoburn. Maybe.
: And actually, for the ordinary people Jackson's Whole is likely a
: perfectly fine place to live and better than a lot of others.
Riiiiiight. I guess the technopeasants and gengineered body slaves
weren't "ordinary people" then, despite their large fraction of the
population.
Mind you, on the other hand, we do see relevant evidence in Diplomatic
Immunity, specifically Russo ("Guppy") Gupta, who expresses some comfort
taken in having been protected by a major House... except of course that
major Houses tend to discard people who become at all inconvenient.
And tend to consume each other in hostile takovers both partial and
complete and run purges, etc, etc, etc.
Not sure I've found any places where the hoy polloi have it worse, in a
statistically average pleasantness and lack of precariousness of position.
Can anybody name any? Hm. Possibly wheresitz, in Cryoburn. Maybe.
Walter Bushell
Sep 22, 2011, 4:04:27 PM9/22/11
to
In article <13167...@sheol.org>, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
wrote:
wrote:
> Not sure I've found any places where the hoy polloi have it worse, in a
> statistically average pleasantness and lack of precariousness of position.
> Can anybody name any? Hm. Possibly wheresitz, in Cryoburn. Maybe.
Perhaps Cetaganda, with the Haut going to expand into their space.
Wayne Throop
Sep 22, 2011, 4:37:25 PM9/22/11
to
:: [... wrt Jackson's Whole ...]
:: Not sure I've found any places where the hoy polloi have it worse, in
:: a statistically average pleasantness and lack of precariousness of
:: position. Can anybody name any? Hm. Possibly wheresitz, in
:: Cryoburn. Maybe.
:: Not sure I've found any places where the hoy polloi have it worse, in
:: a statistically average pleasantness and lack of precariousness of
:: position. Can anybody name any? Hm. Possibly wheresitz, in
:: Cryoburn. Maybe.
: Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com>
: Perhaps Cetaganda, with the Haut going to expand into their space.
But the *Cetagandan* hoi polloi don't seem to have it bad, even if
they-in-general and the-ghem-in-particular tend to make everybody *else*'s
lives miserable (especially Barrayaran's lives in the late unpleasantness
in Ezar and Piotr's generation).
In the long-term, of course, I'd be quite worried about the haut.
But in the short term, they seem almost benign... internally.
David Friedman
Sep 22, 2011, 5:23:38 PM9/22/11
to
In article
<7c5104f7-fde6-403f...@n40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
don't think it has to be solid. Couldn't you get the same result with
enough things in concentric orbits with a suitable range of radii?
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
_Salamander_: http://tinyurl.com/6957y7e
_How to Milk an Almond,..._ http://tinyurl.com/63xg8gx
<7c5104f7-fde6-403f...@n40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> A Dyson sphere is a fantastic hypothetical constructed object, a
> star's pltanets deliberately smeared out into a solid shell right
> around the star, at a safe range.
The basic feature is that it intercepts all of its star's output. I
> A Dyson sphere is a fantastic hypothetical constructed object, a
> star's pltanets deliberately smeared out into a solid shell right
> around the star, at a safe range.
don't think it has to be solid. Couldn't you get the same result with
enough things in concentric orbits with a suitable range of radii?
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
_Salamander_: http://tinyurl.com/6957y7e
_How to Milk an Almond,..._ http://tinyurl.com/63xg8gx
Bill Swears
Sep 22, 2011, 5:57:12 PM9/22/11
to
On Sep 22, 1:23 pm, David Friedman <d...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com>
wrote:
> In article
> <7c5104f7-fde6-403f-95c0-2abfcef89...@n40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
According to Wikipedia, Dyson initially proposed the interconnected
satellites. The name has stuck as other people came up with different
concepts involving things that might cut off all of a star's radiant
output.
wrote:
> In article
> <7c5104f7-fde6-403f-95c0-2abfcef89...@n40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> > A Dyson sphere is a fantastic hypothetical constructed object, a
> > star's pltanets deliberately smeared out into a solid shell right
> > around the star, at a safe range.
>
> The basic feature is that it intercepts all of its star's output. I
> don't think it has to be solid. Couldn't you get the same result with
> enough things in concentric orbits with a suitable range of radii?
>
> --http://www.daviddfriedman.com/http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
>
> > A Dyson sphere is a fantastic hypothetical constructed object, a
> > star's pltanets deliberately smeared out into a solid shell right
> > around the star, at a safe range.
>
> The basic feature is that it intercepts all of its star's output. I
> don't think it has to be solid. Couldn't you get the same result with
> enough things in concentric orbits with a suitable range of radii?
>
According to Wikipedia, Dyson initially proposed the interconnected
satellites. The name has stuck as other people came up with different
concepts involving things that might cut off all of a star's radiant
output.
DouhetSukd
Sep 23, 2011, 3:21:22 AM9/23/11
to
On Sep 21, 8:52 am, Will in New Haven
<bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
>
> > I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>
> Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
> relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
> SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
> relationship-light SF that was very good also.
<bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
>
> > I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>
> Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
> relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
> SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
> relationship-light SF that was very good also.
Having recently given Bujold another try, with Young Miles, and
unhappily bounced off, I can't help but wonder what genetic defect has
put me so apart from my fellow SF geeks.
The tech interest factor is negligible in that book. FTL, big guns,
big rockets. Snooze.
The military aspect is pretty laughable. Three guys, somehow
bootstrapping themselves into taking over a full mercenary fleet.
Lessee, we have combat armor with inbuilt med feeds. And remote
control/sensing abilities. And in all that time, only Miles has been
clever enough to think of hacking the conveniently wide open remote
feed to disable a soldier. Yeah, right.
I find the idea of a successful military feudal society in SF both
profoundly unpleasant and economically/socially implausible. A feudal
society a la Vor could not innovate quickly enough. With torture to
boot.
Miles is the perfect protagonist. Noble, self-sacrificing, rising
above his limitations. With flaws, just so he is not perfect. And
self-doubt. Yup, just the kind of hero I avoid assiduously in my
readings.
The writing? Serviceable, but the words do not spruce up the plot
near as much as say a Gibson or Mieville.
This is not the kind of SF book whose plot I would want to detail to
anyone who doesn't read SF. Not if I wanted to be taken seriously.
It's far from the only SF which is a mindless guilty pleasure, but
most similar SF isn't labelled as "about the best SF being produced
right now". And winning multiple awards.
Now, I realize that Bujold is popular. And that Young Miles won a
Hugo for what is to me an unfathomable reason.
So, just wondering out loud. Does anybody else share my shameful
genetic defect? Come on, we have to face the world bravely!
Michael Stemper
Sep 23, 2011, 8:25:18 AM9/23/11
to
In article <j5d2r6$luu$2...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> writes:
>On 9/21/2011 7:22 AM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>
>> Then, there's Han, solo.
>>
>> (We don't talk about his "friend".)
>>
>> Apparently the latest Star Trek film is a deliberate planetary
>> bromance...
>
>Han shot first ...
That statement has always struck me as too weak. Han shot. Greedo didn't.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Life's too important to take seriously.
>On 9/21/2011 7:22 AM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> Bozo de Niro wrote:
>>> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>>
>> The one most often celebrated is Kirk/Spock.
>>> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>>
>>
>> Then, there's Han, solo.
>>
>> (We don't talk about his "friend".)
>>
>> Apparently the latest Star Trek film is a deliberate planetary
>> bromance...
>
>Han shot first ...
That statement has always struck me as too weak. Han shot. Greedo didn't.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Life's too important to take seriously.
David Friedman
Sep 23, 2011, 9:27:26 AM9/23/11
to
In article
<daf4814a-3f27-4f22...@x32g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
went. I asked her how she was able to write such implausible plots and
yet make them work. Her response was that she put real people in them.
...
> I find the idea of a successful military feudal society in SF both
> profoundly unpleasant and economically/socially implausible.
Feudal societies have been pretty successful, militarily, in past
history.
My favorite SF one isn't by Bujold, it's _The Game Beyond_ by Melissa
Scott. Part of what I liked about it was that she had put thought into
why a future feudal society would come into existence, what it would
look like, and what would happen when the reasons that brought it into
existence disappeared.
> So, just wondering out loud. Does anybody else share my shameful
> genetic defect? Come on, we have to face the world bravely!
Not I.
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
<daf4814a-3f27-4f22...@x32g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
DouhetSukd <douhe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 21, 8:52 am, Will in New Haven
> <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
> >
> > Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
> > relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
> > SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
> > relationship-light SF that was very good also.
>
> Having recently given Bujold another try, with Young Miles, and
> unhappily bounced off, I can't help but wonder what genetic defect has
> put me so apart from my fellow SF geeks.
Years ago, Bujold did a reading at a local bookstore and my wife and I
> On Sep 21, 8:52 am, Will in New Haven
> <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
> >
> > Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
> > relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
> > SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
> > relationship-light SF that was very good also.
>
> Having recently given Bujold another try, with Young Miles, and
> unhappily bounced off, I can't help but wonder what genetic defect has
> put me so apart from my fellow SF geeks.
went. I asked her how she was able to write such implausible plots and
yet make them work. Her response was that she put real people in them.
...
> I find the idea of a successful military feudal society in SF both
> profoundly unpleasant and economically/socially implausible.
history.
My favorite SF one isn't by Bujold, it's _The Game Beyond_ by Melissa
Scott. Part of what I liked about it was that she had put thought into
why a future feudal society would come into existence, what it would
look like, and what would happen when the reasons that brought it into
existence disappeared.
> So, just wondering out loud. Does anybody else share my shameful
> genetic defect? Come on, we have to face the world bravely!
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
Bill Swears
Sep 23, 2011, 10:14:06 AM9/23/11
to
dinner by asking why we eat things with faces. Apparently cows and
whatever went into the hotdog don't have faces. Turkeys do.
Bill
--
Puppies - http://www.mtaonline.net/~wswears/
Opinions - http://wswears.livejournal.com/
Touristy Stuff and a resume - http://home.gci.net/~wswears/Bill's1.htm
Bill Swears
Sep 23, 2011, 10:16:39 AM9/23/11
to
On 9/22/2011 9:23 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article<fdff474d-207f-45df...@fe21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
> Bozo de Niro<Bozo_D...@37.com> wrote:
>> Squickitude: the attitude little girls display towards the notion of
>> cooties
>
> Um ... in my experience it's little *boys* who abreact against
> the very concept of girl cooties, which girls have just from
> being girls.
>
My experience includes both sexes claiming that the other has cooties.
> In article<fdff474d-207f-45df...@fe21g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
> Bozo de Niro<Bozo_D...@37.com> wrote:
>> Squickitude: the attitude little girls display towards the notion of
>> cooties
>
> Um ... in my experience it's little *boys* who abreact against
> the very concept of girl cooties, which girls have just from
> being girls.
>
But it's really "other" cooties. Plenty of people still around who
think that gays or blacks or Hispanics have some sort of untraceable yet
real cooties.
Bill Swears
Sep 23, 2011, 10:26:29 AM9/23/11
to
On 9/22/2011 11:21 PM, DouhetSukd wrote:
> On Sep 21, 8:52 am, Will in New Haven
> <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>> > On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro<Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
>> >
>>> > > I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>> >
>> > Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
>> > relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
>> > SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
>> > relationship-light SF that was very good also.
> Having recently given Bujold another try, with Young Miles, and
> unhappily bounced off, I can't help but wonder what genetic defect has
> put me so apart from my fellow SF geeks.
> On Sep 21, 8:52 am, Will in New Haven
> <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>> > On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro<Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
>> >
>>> > > I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>> >
>> > Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
>> > relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
>> > SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
>> > relationship-light SF that was very good also.
> Having recently given Bujold another try, with Young Miles, and
> unhappily bounced off, I can't help but wonder what genetic defect has
> put me so apart from my fellow SF geeks.
I think that your humor impairment might have something to do with it. :-)
Actually, I wonder if you aren't suffering from the same thing my wife
did when I made her watch "Casablanca." She was unimpressed, and said
that it had a lot of cliches in it. The fact that they weren't cliches
when the movie was made simply didn't register with her.
Wayne Throop
Sep 23, 2011, 11:17:46 AM9/23/11
to
: Bill Swears <wsw...@gci.net>
: My daughter, who eats meet regularly, used to start every Thanksgiving
wouldn't eat anything with feet. I wondered while reading whether the
rule implied there were no snakes in that world, since if there were, it
would tend to lead to cognitive dissonance (what with lizards and all),
and it'd seem they'd find a different rule. But it seemed an interesting
place to draw the line.
All you zombies hide your faces
All you people in the street
All you sitting in high places
The pieces gonna fall on you
--- Hooters
: My daughter, who eats meet regularly, used to start every Thanksgiving
: dinner by asking why we eat things with faces. Apparently cows and
: whatever went into the hotdog don't have faces. Turkeys do.
In the {First,Hidden,Forgotten,Lost} Truth series, the protagonistess
: whatever went into the hotdog don't have faces. Turkeys do.
wouldn't eat anything with feet. I wondered while reading whether the
rule implied there were no snakes in that world, since if there were, it
would tend to lead to cognitive dissonance (what with lizards and all),
and it'd seem they'd find a different rule. But it seemed an interesting
place to draw the line.
All you zombies hide your faces
All you people in the street
All you sitting in high places
The pieces gonna fall on you
--- Hooters
Lynn McGuire
Sep 23, 2011, 12:28:34 PM9/23/11
to
On 9/23/2011 7:25 AM, Michael Stemper wrote:
> In article<j5d2r6$luu$2...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire<l...@winsim.com> writes:
>> On 9/21/2011 7:22 AM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>> Bozo de Niro wrote:
>
>>>> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>>>
>>> The one most often celebrated is Kirk/Spock.
>>>
>>> Then, there's Han, solo.
>>>
>>> (We don't talk about his "friend".)
>>>
>>> Apparently the latest Star Trek film is a deliberate planetary
>>> bromance...
>>
>> Han shot first ...
>
> That statement has always struck me as too weak. Han shot. Greedo didn't.
> In article<j5d2r6$luu$2...@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire<l...@winsim.com> writes:
>> On 9/21/2011 7:22 AM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>> Bozo de Niro wrote:
>
>>>> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>>>
>>> The one most often celebrated is Kirk/Spock.
>>>
>>> Then, there's Han, solo.
>>>
>>> (We don't talk about his "friend".)
>>>
>>> Apparently the latest Star Trek film is a deliberate planetary
>>> bromance...
>>
>> Han shot first ...
>
> That statement has always struck me as too weak. Han shot. Greedo didn't.
You are correct.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1YbFnkZwZk
I still like "Han shot first" better.
Lynn
JF
Sep 23, 2011, 12:52:19 PM9/23/11
to
>> Squick is not objective. Some people can find a description of
>> a dinner
>> party squicky.
into rubbish as they approach the bin or the washing up bowl. I
try to identify the exact moment that the switch occurs, and the
idea of eating them goes from nice to squick.
Maybe I should get out more....
JF
Wayne Throop
Sep 23, 2011, 1:22:32 PM9/23/11
to
::: Han shot first ...
:: That statement has always struck me as too weak. Han shot. Greedo didn't.
: You are correct.
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1YbFnkZwZk
: I still like "Han shot first" better.
"Only" is a subset of "first".
So "first" is technically correct.
Which is the best *kind* of correct.
:: That statement has always struck me as too weak. Han shot. Greedo didn't.
: You are correct.
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1YbFnkZwZk
: I still like "Han shot first" better.
So "first" is technically correct.
Which is the best *kind* of correct.
Jerry Brown
Sep 23, 2011, 2:02:56 PM9/23/11
to
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:28:34 -0500, Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com>
wrote:
Which reminds me of:
<http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_214_28-great-movies-from-perspective-minor-characters_p28/#1>
--
Jerry Brown
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
wrote:
<http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_214_28-great-movies-from-perspective-minor-characters_p28/#1>
--
Jerry Brown
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Brian M. Scott
Sep 23, 2011, 4:22:12 PM9/23/11
to
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 17:52:19 +0100, JF
<jul...@oopsoopsfloodsclimbers.co.uk> wrote in
<news:W6Gdnd-WeKTXJOHT...@brightview.co.uk> in
rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.composition,alt.comedy.standup:
For me it's when they actually go into the sink or the
garbage, or when they've sat out too long. 'Too long' is a
unit that depends on the scraps.
> Maybe I should get out more....
Brian
<jul...@oopsoopsfloodsclimbers.co.uk> wrote in
<news:W6Gdnd-WeKTXJOHT...@brightview.co.uk> in
rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.composition,alt.comedy.standup:
garbage, or when they've sat out too long. 'Too long' is a
unit that depends on the scraps.
> Maybe I should get out more....
Brian M. Scott
Sep 23, 2011, 4:38:35 PM9/23/11
to
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 00:21:22 -0700 (PDT), DouhetSukd
<douhe...@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:daf4814a-3f27-4f22...@x32g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
in
rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.composition,alt.comedy.standup:
> On Sep 21, 8:52 am, Will in New Haven
> <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com>
>> wrote:
>>> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and
>>> Star Trek?
>> Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on
>> family and relationships, including romantic
>> relationships. That's about the best SF being produced
>> right now, although there has been a lot of
>> relationship-light SF that was very good also.
> Having recently given Bujold another try, with Young
> Miles, and unhappily bounced off, I can't help but wonder
> what genetic defect has put me so apart from my fellow SF
> geeks.
[...]
> The writing? Serviceable, but the words do not spruce up
> the plot near as much as say a Gibson or Mieville.
Gibson?!
[...]
> It's far from the only SF which is a mindless guilty
> pleasure, but most similar SF isn't labelled as "about
> the best SF being produced right now". And winning
> multiple awards.
Most of what you're calling similar SF isn't actually very
similar in one fundamental respect: Bujold does characters
very well. And while I've enjoyed a few of them, I'm not a
fan of the Vorkosigan books. I don't share any of your
specific objections; most of the books simply don't grab me.
I'm not sure why; I like her fantasy a great deal. Partly,
I suspect, it's that I don't care enough about Miles. He's
well drawn, and I don't dislike him, but he doesn't exert
any strong appeal, either.
[...]
Brian
<douhe...@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:daf4814a-3f27-4f22...@x32g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
in
rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.composition,alt.comedy.standup:
> On Sep 21, 8:52 am, Will in New Haven
> <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro <Bozo_De_N...@37.com>
>> wrote:
>>> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and
>>> Star Trek?
>> Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on
>> family and relationships, including romantic
>> relationships. That's about the best SF being produced
>> right now, although there has been a lot of
>> relationship-light SF that was very good also.
> Having recently given Bujold another try, with Young
> Miles, and unhappily bounced off, I can't help but wonder
> what genetic defect has put me so apart from my fellow SF
> geeks.
> The writing? Serviceable, but the words do not spruce up
> the plot near as much as say a Gibson or Mieville.
[...]
> It's far from the only SF which is a mindless guilty
> pleasure, but most similar SF isn't labelled as "about
> the best SF being produced right now". And winning
> multiple awards.
similar in one fundamental respect: Bujold does characters
very well. And while I've enjoyed a few of them, I'm not a
fan of the Vorkosigan books. I don't share any of your
specific objections; most of the books simply don't grab me.
I'm not sure why; I like her fantasy a great deal. Partly,
I suspect, it's that I don't care enough about Miles. He's
well drawn, and I don't dislike him, but he doesn't exert
any strong appeal, either.
[...]
Brian
David Friedman
Sep 23, 2011, 5:34:08 PM9/23/11
to
In article <5tOdnYYBg4WOCuHT...@posted.mtasolutions>,
Bill Swears <wsw...@gci.net> wrote:
> On 9/22/2011 11:21 PM, DouhetSukd wrote:
> > On Sep 21, 8:52 am, Will in New Haven
> > <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> >> > On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro<Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >>> > > I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
> >> >
> >> > Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
> >> > relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
> >> > SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
> >> > relationship-light SF that was very good also.
> > Having recently given Bujold another try, with Young Miles, and
> > unhappily bounced off, I can't help but wonder what genetic defect has
> > put me so apart from my fellow SF geeks.
>
> I think that your humor impairment might have something to do with it. :-)
>
> Actually, I wonder if you aren't suffering from the same thing my wife
> did when I made her watch "Casablanca." She was unimpressed, and said
> that it had a lot of cliches in it. The fact that they weren't cliches
> when the movie was made simply didn't register with her.
Hamlet is worse.
> On 9/22/2011 11:21 PM, DouhetSukd wrote:
> > On Sep 21, 8:52 am, Will in New Haven
> > <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> >> > On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro<Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >>> > > I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
> >> >
> >> > Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
> >> > relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
> >> > SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
> >> > relationship-light SF that was very good also.
> > Having recently given Bujold another try, with Young Miles, and
> > unhappily bounced off, I can't help but wonder what genetic defect has
> > put me so apart from my fellow SF geeks.
>
> I think that your humor impairment might have something to do with it. :-)
>
> Actually, I wonder if you aren't suffering from the same thing my wife
> did when I made her watch "Casablanca." She was unimpressed, and said
> that it had a lot of cliches in it. The fact that they weren't cliches
> when the movie was made simply didn't register with her.
Colonel Jake
Sep 23, 2011, 6:42:55 PM9/23/11
to
Bozo de Niro
>
> I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
Hey BoZo?,
"I've noticed you got a ton of replies to this thread
from rec.arts.sf.written and rec.arts.sf.composition,
remember your KoOK standing and please BoZo,
please get them to post to your favorite froup -
alt.usenet.kooks, cause you know as much as I do
BoZo! that AUK needs new bloOd..."
Thanks and goOd luck with your assignment
--
Colonel Jake
Howard Brazee
Sep 23, 2011, 7:11:24 PM9/23/11
to
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 12:25:18 +0000 (UTC),
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>>Han shot first ...
>
>That statement has always struck me as too weak. Han shot. Greedo didn't.
Week, but technically correct. Han shot last. Han shot only.
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>>Han shot first ...
>
>That statement has always struck me as too weak. Han shot. Greedo didn't.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Howard Brazee
Sep 23, 2011, 7:12:34 PM9/23/11
to
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:14:06 -0800, Bill Swears <wsw...@gci.net>
wrote:
>My daughter, who eats meet regularly, used to start every Thanksgiving
>dinner by asking why we eat things with faces. Apparently cows and
>whatever went into the hotdog don't have faces. Turkeys do.
It's why I'd rather get meat from supermarkets than from animals.
wrote:
>My daughter, who eats meet regularly, used to start every Thanksgiving
>dinner by asking why we eat things with faces. Apparently cows and
>whatever went into the hotdog don't have faces. Turkeys do.
Howard Brazee
Sep 23, 2011, 7:14:13 PM9/23/11
to
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:26:29 -0800, Bill Swears <wsw...@gci.net>
wrote:
>Actually, I wonder if you aren't suffering from the same thing my wife
>did when I made her watch "Casablanca." She was unimpressed, and said
>that it had a lot of cliches in it. The fact that they weren't cliches
>when the movie was made simply didn't register with her.
Don't show her any Shakespeare.
wrote:
>Actually, I wonder if you aren't suffering from the same thing my wife
>did when I made her watch "Casablanca." She was unimpressed, and said
>that it had a lot of cliches in it. The fact that they weren't cliches
>when the movie was made simply didn't register with her.
DouhetSukd
Sep 23, 2011, 9:28:28 PM9/23/11
to
On Sep 23, 7:26 am, Bill Swears <wswe...@gci.net> wrote:
> I think that your humor impairment might have something to do with it. :-)
Humor impairment??? Are you suggesting that, on top of all the
> I think that your humor impairment might have something to do with it. :-)
numerous qualities attributed to it, this series is humorous?
FWIW, your own sense of humor here isn't blindingly obvious. In fact,
your response seems more fanboy-ish than reasoned.
>
> Actually, I wonder if you aren't suffering from the same thing my wife
> did when I made her watch "Casablanca." She was unimpressed, and said
> that it had a lot of cliches in it. The fact that they weren't cliches
> when the movie was made simply didn't register with her.
I didn't refer to it as cliche. A lot of SF is derivative in any
case, and Young Miles didn't strike me as particularly guilty. Not
near as impressive, to me, as to everyone else, but not preposterously
cliche.
The weaponry & combat bit didn't do it for me, hence the snooze. I
mean, it is MilSF, so if the Mil part is so-so...
DouhetSukd
Sep 23, 2011, 9:40:07 PM9/23/11
to
On Sep 23, 1:38 pm, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> > The writing? Serviceable, but the words do not spruce up
> > the plot near as much as say a Gibson or Mieville.
>
> Gibson?!
>
Gibson's English is always a hoot to read. The plots it orbits around
> > The writing? Serviceable, but the words do not spruce up
> > the plot near as much as say a Gibson or Mieville.
>
> Gibson?!
>
aren't always up to snuff, but the man's got a turn of phrase.
> [...]
>
> > It's far from the only SF which is a mindless guilty
> > pleasure, but most similar SF isn't labelled as "about
> > the best SF being produced right now". And winning
> > multiple awards.
have describe the story arcs to a non-SF reader. Would "light
entertainment" be permissible to describe Young Miles?
>
> Most of what you're calling similar SF isn't actually very
> similar in one fundamental respect: Bujold does characters
> very well.
the series.
I doubt I'll stick around long enough to get hooked, but yes, much SF
is not good about characters or relationships. And if you narrow it
down to MilSF, then I would guess it is even easier to shine.
So I will take that at face value and it is a worthwhile attribute.
Bill Swears
Sep 23, 2011, 10:46:05 PM9/23/11
to
On 9/23/2011 1:34 PM, David Friedman wrote:
> In article<5tOdnYYBg4WOCuHT...@posted.mtasolutions>,
> Bill Swears<wsw...@gci.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9/22/2011 11:21 PM, DouhetSukd wrote:
>>> On Sep 21, 8:52 am, Will in New Haven
>>> <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro<Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> > I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
>>>>> relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
>>>>> SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
>>>>> relationship-light SF that was very good also.
>>> Having recently given Bujold another try, with Young Miles, and
>>> unhappily bounced off, I can't help but wonder what genetic defect has
>>> put me so apart from my fellow SF geeks.
>>
>> I think that your humor impairment might have something to do with it. :-)
>>
>> Actually, I wonder if you aren't suffering from the same thing my wife
>> did when I made her watch "Casablanca." She was unimpressed, and said
>> that it had a lot of cliches in it. The fact that they weren't cliches
>> when the movie was made simply didn't register with her.
>
> Hamlet is worse.
>
Funny how things pass back and forth between being cliche and being a
> In article<5tOdnYYBg4WOCuHT...@posted.mtasolutions>,
> Bill Swears<wsw...@gci.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9/22/2011 11:21 PM, DouhetSukd wrote:
>>> On Sep 21, 8:52 am, Will in New Haven
>>> <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sep 21, 2:48 am, Bozo de Niro<Bozo_De_N...@37.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> > I forgot, what was the relationship in Star Wars and Star Trek?
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, almost every Bujold book is heavily centered on family and
>>>>> relationships, including romantic relationships. That's about the best
>>>>> SF being produced right now, although there has been a lot of
>>>>> relationship-light SF that was very good also.
>>> Having recently given Bujold another try, with Young Miles, and
>>> unhappily bounced off, I can't help but wonder what genetic defect has
>>> put me so apart from my fellow SF geeks.
>>
>> I think that your humor impairment might have something to do with it. :-)
>>
>> Actually, I wonder if you aren't suffering from the same thing my wife
>> did when I made her watch "Casablanca." She was unimpressed, and said
>> that it had a lot of cliches in it. The fact that they weren't cliches
>> when the movie was made simply didn't register with her.
>
> Hamlet is worse.
>
reverent recall of classic references. Here's looking at you, kid.
Bill Swears
Sep 23, 2011, 10:52:03 PM9/23/11
to
> mean, it is MilSF, so if the Mil part is so-so...
I would not have considered it as mil-sf when I read it. It was just
space opera - popcorn books. For me, it hit a lot closer to Anderson's
Flandry novels.
And yes, most Miles fans laugh a lot while reading the books
Brian M. Scott
Sep 23, 2011, 11:09:05 PM9/23/11
to
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 18:28:28 -0700 (PDT), DouhetSukd
<douhe...@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:a2f0620d-84ac-4e64...@cd4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
in
rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.composition,alt.comedy.standup:
[...]
> The weaponry & combat bit didn't do it for me, hence the
> snooze. I mean, it is MilSF, so if the Mil part is
> so-so...
I would not classify _Young Miles_ as MilSF. It's been a
very long time, but my recollection is that _The Warrior's
Apprentice_ and _The Vor Game_ are more space opera than
anything else. 'The Mountains of Mourning' is certainly not
MilSF (and is quite possibly the best single thing in the
Vorkosigan saga).
Brian
<douhe...@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:a2f0620d-84ac-4e64...@cd4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
in
rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.composition,alt.comedy.standup:
[...]
> The weaponry & combat bit didn't do it for me, hence the
> snooze. I mean, it is MilSF, so if the Mil part is
> so-so...
very long time, but my recollection is that _The Warrior's
Apprentice_ and _The Vor Game_ are more space opera than
anything else. 'The Mountains of Mourning' is certainly not
MilSF (and is quite possibly the best single thing in the
Vorkosigan saga).
Brian
David Friedman
Sep 23, 2011, 11:21:38 PM9/23/11
to
In article
<a2f0620d-84ac-4e64...@cd4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
I'm curious--have you read _Curse of Chalion_ and the two related books?
Also by Bujold, but very different from the Vorkosigan books. _Curse_ is
very good, the second pretty good, the third not bad but not up to
Bujold's normal level.
Fantasy rather than science-fiction.
<a2f0620d-84ac-4e64...@cd4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
DouhetSukd <douhe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think that your humor impairment might have something to do with it. :-)
>
> Humor impairment??? Are you suggesting that, on top of all the
> numerous qualities attributed to it, this series is humorous?
>
Parts of it are.
> > I think that your humor impairment might have something to do with it. :-)
>
> Humor impairment??? Are you suggesting that, on top of all the
> numerous qualities attributed to it, this series is humorous?
>
I'm curious--have you read _Curse of Chalion_ and the two related books?
Also by Bujold, but very different from the Vorkosigan books. _Curse_ is
very good, the second pretty good, the third not bad but not up to
Bujold's normal level.
Fantasy rather than science-fiction.
J.Pascal
Sep 24, 2011, 1:55:41 AM9/24/11
to
On Sep 23, 9:09 pm, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 18:28:28 -0700 (PDT), DouhetSukd
> <douhets...@gmail.com> wrote in
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 18:28:28 -0700 (PDT), DouhetSukd
-Julie
J.Pascal
Sep 24, 2011, 2:00:47 AM9/24/11
to
On Sep 23, 9:21 pm, David Friedman <d...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com>
wrote:
> In article
> <a2f0620d-84ac-4e64-8892-307944291...@cd4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
My first impression of the Miles books
was that they were fun but no big deal. Then I
started reading them over again back-to-back on
the theory that it's a good way to learn to write.
I only finally realized how fabulous they were when
I was still laughing at the funny parts on the fourth
consecutive read-through.
Some of them are funnier than others. The first I
read was Brother's in Arms. That one has a sort
of farcical quality to it.
> I'm curious--have you read _Curse of Chalion_ and the two related books?
> Also by Bujold, but very different from the Vorkosigan books. _Curse_ is
> very good, the second pretty good, the third not bad but not up to
> Bujold's normal level.
>
> Fantasy rather than science-fiction.
And not funny.
-Julie
wrote:
> In article
> <a2f0620d-84ac-4e64-8892-307944291...@cd4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> DouhetSukd <douhets...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think that your humor impairment might have something to do with it. :-)
>
> > Humor impairment??? Are you suggesting that, on top of all the
> > numerous qualities attributed to it, this series is humorous?
>
> Parts of it are.
And they stay funny.
> DouhetSukd <douhets...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think that your humor impairment might have something to do with it. :-)
>
> > Humor impairment??? Are you suggesting that, on top of all the
> > numerous qualities attributed to it, this series is humorous?
>
> Parts of it are.
My first impression of the Miles books
was that they were fun but no big deal. Then I
started reading them over again back-to-back on
the theory that it's a good way to learn to write.
I only finally realized how fabulous they were when
I was still laughing at the funny parts on the fourth
consecutive read-through.
Some of them are funnier than others. The first I
read was Brother's in Arms. That one has a sort
of farcical quality to it.
> I'm curious--have you read _Curse of Chalion_ and the two related books?
> Also by Bujold, but very different from the Vorkosigan books. _Curse_ is
> very good, the second pretty good, the third not bad but not up to
> Bujold's normal level.
>
> Fantasy rather than science-fiction.
-Julie
Brian M. Scott
Sep 24, 2011, 7:52:43 AM9/24/11
to
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 23:00:47 -0700 (PDT), "J.Pascal"
<ju...@pascal.org> wrote in
<news:7807c569-2ffb-4492...@t16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
in
rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.composition,alt.comedy.standup:
[...]
>> I'm curious--have you read _Curse of Chalion_ and the two
>> related books? Also by Bujold, but very different from
>> the Vorkosigan books. _Curse_ is very good, the second
>> pretty good, the third not bad but not up to Bujold's
>> normal level.
>> Fantasy rather than science-fiction.
> And not funny.
The end of CoC has some very funny bits.
Brian
<ju...@pascal.org> wrote in
<news:7807c569-2ffb-4492...@t16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
in
rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.composition,alt.comedy.standup:
[...]
>> I'm curious--have you read _Curse of Chalion_ and the two
>> related books? Also by Bujold, but very different from
>> the Vorkosigan books. _Curse_ is very good, the second
>> pretty good, the third not bad but not up to Bujold's
>> normal level.
>> Fantasy rather than science-fiction.
> And not funny.
Brian
Brenda Clough
Sep 24, 2011, 10:39:16 AM9/24/11
to
their situation. A great book.
Brenda
--
My latest novel SPEAK TO OUR DESIRES is available exclusively from Book
View Cafe.
http://www.bookviewcafe.com/index.php/Brenda-Clough/Novels/Speak-to-Our-Desires-Chapter-01
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Sep 24, 2011, 10:41:44 AM9/24/11
to
On 9/24/11 10:39 AM, Brenda Clough wrote:
> On 9/24/2011 7:52 AM, Brian M. Scott wrote:
>
>> The end of CoC has some very funny bits.
>>
>> Brian
>
>
> Yes: the best kind of funny, that springs out of the characters and
> their situation. A great book.
>
Well, the part where Cthulhu is run over by the boat CAN be funny but I
> On 9/24/2011 7:52 AM, Brian M. Scott wrote:
>
>> The end of CoC has some very funny bits.
>>
>> Brian
>
>
> Yes: the best kind of funny, that springs out of the characters and
> their situation. A great book.
>
don't know if that's from the characters, per se.
;)
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
David Friedman
Sep 24, 2011, 11:29:48 AM9/24/11
to
In article <154m9wfgdemai$.1lbt4ddza7wf1$.d...@40tude.net>,
"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> The end of CoC has some very funny bits.
>
The protagonist thinking he's been dumped when he has actually been
promoted, along with the exchange about who is being rewarded?
Those are funny, but I think what they are there for is more to
intensify the thrill when you discover just how well the author is
treating the protagonist at the end. It would feel like overkill--except
that he has earned it.
Walter Bushell
Sep 24, 2011, 12:04:39 PM9/24/11
to
In article <ddfr-DA04DC.1...@news.giganews.com>,
--
Ignorance is no protection against reality. -- Paul J Gans
David Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote:
> In article <154m9wfgdemai$.1lbt4ddza7wf1$.d...@40tude.net>,
> "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>
> > The end of CoC has some very funny bits.
> >
>
> The protagonist thinking he's been dumped when he has actually been
> promoted, along with the exchange about who is being rewarded?
>
> Those are funny, but I think what they are there for is more to
> intensify the thrill when you discover just how well the author is
> treating the protagonist at the end. It would feel like overkill--except
> that he has earned it.
Earned in no trump. (One step up from winning it in spades.)
> In article <154m9wfgdemai$.1lbt4ddza7wf1$.d...@40tude.net>,
> "Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>
> > The end of CoC has some very funny bits.
> >
>
> The protagonist thinking he's been dumped when he has actually been
> promoted, along with the exchange about who is being rewarded?
>
> Those are funny, but I think what they are there for is more to
> intensify the thrill when you discover just how well the author is
> treating the protagonist at the end. It would feel like overkill--except
> that he has earned it.
--
Ignorance is no protection against reality. -- Paul J Gans
Bill Swears
Sep 24, 2011, 12:14:14 PM9/24/11
to
On 9/24/2011 6:41 AM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> On 9/24/11 10:39 AM, Brenda Clough wrote:
>> On 9/24/2011 7:52 AM, Brian M. Scott wrote:
>>
>>> The end of CoC has some very funny bits.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>
>>
>> Yes: the best kind of funny, that springs out of the characters and
>> their situation. A great book.
>>
>
> Well, the part where Cthulhu is run over by the boat CAN be funny but I
> don't know if that's from the characters, per se.
>
> ;)
>
>
You mean the bit where he lifts the boat out of the water and uses it
> On 9/24/11 10:39 AM, Brenda Clough wrote:
>> On 9/24/2011 7:52 AM, Brian M. Scott wrote:
>>
>>> The end of CoC has some very funny bits.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>
>>
>> Yes: the best kind of funny, that springs out of the characters and
>> their situation. A great book.
>>
>
> Well, the part where Cthulhu is run over by the boat CAN be funny but I
> don't know if that's from the characters, per se.
>
> ;)
>
>
for a back-scratcher, then breaks the boat open and scoops out the meaty
bits (back-scratcher for only certain definitions of back)?
Lynn McGuire
Sep 24, 2011, 12:44:04 PM9/24/11
to
Don't forget the cringing. Especially in _A_Civil_Campaign_.
Lynn
Will in New Haven
Sep 24, 2011, 1:39:48 PM9/24/11
to
On Sep 23, 4:38 pm, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 00:21:22 -0700 (PDT), DouhetSukd
> <douhets...@gmail.com> wrote in
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 00:21:22 -0700 (PDT), DouhetSukd
have a parental interest in Miles. It is the three loosely-related
Chalion books that have the most re-reads, however.
--
Will in New Haven
"He just did what he had to do; and now he's growing old."
Townes Van Zandt - "Pancho and Lefty"
Will in New Haven
Sep 24, 2011, 1:42:28 PM9/24/11
to
--
Will in New Haven
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Sep 24, 2011, 2:27:38 PM9/24/11
to
On 9/24/11 12:14 PM, Bill Swears wrote:
> On 9/24/2011 6:41 AM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>> On 9/24/11 10:39 AM, Brenda Clough wrote:
>>> On 9/24/2011 7:52 AM, Brian M. Scott wrote:
>>>
>>>> The end of CoC has some very funny bits.
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes: the best kind of funny, that springs out of the characters and
>>> their situation. A great book.
>>>
>>
>> Well, the part where Cthulhu is run over by the boat CAN be funny but I
>> don't know if that's from the characters, per se.
>>
>> ;)
>>
>>
> You mean the bit where he lifts the boat out of the water and uses it
> for a back-scratcher, then breaks the boat open and scoops out the meaty
> bits (back-scratcher for only certain definitions of back)?
>
In CoC he doesn't succeed in doing that to the boat; it rams him, he
> On 9/24/2011 6:41 AM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>> On 9/24/11 10:39 AM, Brenda Clough wrote:
>>> On 9/24/2011 7:52 AM, Brian M. Scott wrote:
>>>
>>>> The end of CoC has some very funny bits.
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes: the best kind of funny, that springs out of the characters and
>>> their situation. A great book.
>>>
>>
>> Well, the part where Cthulhu is run over by the boat CAN be funny but I
>> don't know if that's from the characters, per se.
>>
>> ;)
>>
>>
> You mean the bit where he lifts the boat out of the water and uses it
> for a back-scratcher, then breaks the boat open and scoops out the meaty
> bits (back-scratcher for only certain definitions of back)?
>
explodes like a flabby ballon, and is seen re-forming behind the boat as
it flees. At least IIRC.
Brian M. Scott
Sep 24, 2011, 5:07:23 PM9/24/11
to
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:04:39 -0400, Walter Bushell
<pr...@panix.com> wrote in
<news:proto-7A2A6B....@news.panix.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.composition,alt.comedy.standup:
True, but not at all what I had in mind. The poem to
Betriz' nose, the whole scene with Palli ('[A]re you sure
She got your soul back in right way round?') -- in fact,
just about all of his immediate reactions to the experience.
Brian
<pr...@panix.com> wrote in
<news:proto-7A2A6B....@news.panix.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.composition,alt.comedy.standup:
Betriz' nose, the whole scene with Palli ('[A]re you sure
She got your soul back in right way round?') -- in fact,
just about all of his immediate reactions to the experience.
Brian
J.Pascal
Sep 24, 2011, 5:10:18 PM9/24/11
to
On Sep 24, 11:42 am, Will in New Haven
I don't think that definition works. Sure, someone might
say, "I don't like MilSF and I like this so this isn't MilSF,"
but that's a "know it when I see it" definition.
If I think about other MilSF it's very often about the culture
and social elements of a military organization. Take Honor
Harrington... take away the military tactics and BuShips
and it's about living within and getting ahead within this
social structure. Troy Rising (if I'm not mistaken) takes
the Live Free or Die book series from space adventure with
wars and ships and lasers to MilSF because it is so very
much about the military structure/culture itself. What is
the Amazon Legion about at it's heart?
For what it's worth, a long long time ago, a fellow in my
crit group commented on a story of mine that I wrote
MilSF better than Weber and that he didn't like MilSF but
he liked my story. Hugely gratifying to hear, but the
story went no where and there it still sits because the
truth of it was that the military system (for lack of a better
term) that I was describing was incoherent. My story
world was incoherent. Other than that it had interesting
people, fun combat armor suits, a war and other military
bells and whistles.
I don't think that the bells and whistles are enough to
identify the sub-genre without describing a workable
military system and culture.
Miles is part of a tradition of military service and a
feudal sort of culture and he runs a mercenary fleet
but there is always the feeling that he could not have
possibly functioned in the actual Barayarran military.
-Julie
say, "I don't like MilSF and I like this so this isn't MilSF,"
but that's a "know it when I see it" definition.
If I think about other MilSF it's very often about the culture
and social elements of a military organization. Take Honor
Harrington... take away the military tactics and BuShips
and it's about living within and getting ahead within this
social structure. Troy Rising (if I'm not mistaken) takes
the Live Free or Die book series from space adventure with
wars and ships and lasers to MilSF because it is so very
much about the military structure/culture itself. What is
the Amazon Legion about at it's heart?
For what it's worth, a long long time ago, a fellow in my
crit group commented on a story of mine that I wrote
MilSF better than Weber and that he didn't like MilSF but
he liked my story. Hugely gratifying to hear, but the
story went no where and there it still sits because the
truth of it was that the military system (for lack of a better
term) that I was describing was incoherent. My story
world was incoherent. Other than that it had interesting
people, fun combat armor suits, a war and other military
bells and whistles.
I don't think that the bells and whistles are enough to
identify the sub-genre without describing a workable
military system and culture.
Miles is part of a tradition of military service and a
feudal sort of culture and he runs a mercenary fleet
but there is always the feeling that he could not have
possibly functioned in the actual Barayarran military.
-Julie
Howard Brazee
Sep 24, 2011, 6:09:12 PM9/24/11
to
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:41:44 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> Well, the part where Cthulhu is run over by the boat CAN be funny but I
>don't know if that's from the characters, per se.
>
> ;)
Cthulhu is much more interesting (to me) when Stross writes him.
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> Well, the part where Cthulhu is run over by the boat CAN be funny but I
>don't know if that's from the characters, per se.
>
> ;)
Will in New Haven
Sep 24, 2011, 6:33:32 PM9/24/11
to
--
Will in New Haven
"He only did what he had to do; and now he's growing old."
Townes Van Zandt - "Pancho and Lefty"
>
Suzanne Blom
Sep 24, 2011, 6:56:15 PM9/24/11
to
On 9/24/2011 11:44 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 9/23/2011 9:52 PM, Bill Swears wrote:
>> On 9/23/2011 5:28 PM, DouhetSukd wrote:
>>>
>>> Humor impairment??? Are you suggesting that, on top of all the
>>> numerous qualities attributed to it, this series is humorous?
>>>
>>> FWIW, your own sense of humor here isn't blindingly obvious. In fact,
>>> your response seems more fanboy-ish than reasoned.
>>>
> On 9/23/2011 9:52 PM, Bill Swears wrote:
>> On 9/23/2011 5:28 PM, DouhetSukd wrote:
>>>
>>> Humor impairment??? Are you suggesting that, on top of all the
>>> numerous qualities attributed to it, this series is humorous?
>>>
>>> FWIW, your own sense of humor here isn't blindingly obvious. In fact,
>>> your response seems more fanboy-ish than reasoned.
>>>
>>> I didn't refer to it as cliche. A lot of SF is derivative in any
>>> case, and Young Miles didn't strike me as particularly guilty. Not
>>> near as impressive, to me, as to everyone else, but not preposterously
>>> cliche.
>>>
>>> The weaponry& combat bit didn't do it for me, hence the snooze. I
>>> mean, it is MilSF, so if the Mil part is so-so...
>> I would not have considered it as mil-sf when I read it. It was just
>> space opera - popcorn books. For me, it hit a lot closer to Anderson's
>> Flandry novels.
>>
>> And yes, most Miles fans laugh a lot while reading the books
>>
>>> case, and Young Miles didn't strike me as particularly guilty. Not
>>> near as impressive, to me, as to everyone else, but not preposterously
>>> cliche.
>>>
>>> The weaponry& combat bit didn't do it for me, hence the snooze. I
>>> mean, it is MilSF, so if the Mil part is so-so...
>> I would not have considered it as mil-sf when I read it. It was just
>> space opera - popcorn books. For me, it hit a lot closer to Anderson's
>> Flandry novels.
>>
>> And yes, most Miles fans laugh a lot while reading the books
>>
> Don't forget the cringing. Especially in _A_Civil_Campaign_.
>
What?! Are you a guy? ;-)
>
Suzanne Blom
Sep 24, 2011, 7:00:27 PM9/24/11
to
David Friedman
Sep 24, 2011, 10:21:34 PM9/24/11
to
In article
<d88f1217-848f-4f21...@dk6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
the balance between two sorts of social/political systems, each of which
has advantages and disadvantages from a military point of view (and
others). My protagonist is in a semi-anarchist society, so has neither
tax revenues nor feudal levies to provide him with an army; that's a
disadvantage vis a vis the Empire which is his opponent.
On the other hand, Harald is a better general than even the best of the
imperial generals, in part because an imperial officer with his
unconventional approach to winning wars would never make it to general,
and might very well end up dead or forced out of the military.
<d88f1217-848f-4f21...@dk6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
"J.Pascal" <ju...@pascal.org> wrote:
> Miles is part of a tradition of military service and a
> feudal sort of culture and he runs a mercenary fleet
> but there is always the feeling that he could not have
> possibly functioned in the actual Barayarran military.
One of the things I see in my _Harald_ and don't know if readers see is
> Miles is part of a tradition of military service and a
> feudal sort of culture and he runs a mercenary fleet
> but there is always the feeling that he could not have
> possibly functioned in the actual Barayarran military.
the balance between two sorts of social/political systems, each of which
has advantages and disadvantages from a military point of view (and
others). My protagonist is in a semi-anarchist society, so has neither
tax revenues nor feudal levies to provide him with an army; that's a
disadvantage vis a vis the Empire which is his opponent.
On the other hand, Harald is a better general than even the best of the
imperial generals, in part because an imperial officer with his
unconventional approach to winning wars would never make it to general,
and might very well end up dead or forced out of the military.
Bill Swears
Sep 25, 2011, 12:30:59 PM9/25/11
to
couple days. But it's also the exact sort of comedy of nerves that
drives me out of movies to buy popcorn.
Suzanne Blom
Sep 25, 2011, 12:53:29 PM9/25/11
to
On 9/25/2011 11:30 AM, Bill Swears wrote:
> On 9/24/2011 2:56 PM, Suzanne Blom wrote:
>> On 9/24/2011 11:44 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 9/23/2011 9:52 PM, Bill Swears wrote:
>>>> And yes, most Miles fans laugh a lot while reading the books
>>>>
>>> Don't forget the cringing. Especially in _A_Civil_Campaign_.
>>>
>> What?! Are you a guy? ;-)
> That dinner scene had me laughing and reading bits to my wife for a
> couple days. But it's also the exact sort of comedy of nerves that
> drives me out of movies to buy popcorn.
>
Oh, the _dinner_ scene. Yeah, I generally skip it on rereads.> On 9/24/2011 2:56 PM, Suzanne Blom wrote:
>> On 9/24/2011 11:44 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 9/23/2011 9:52 PM, Bill Swears wrote:
>>>> And yes, most Miles fans laugh a lot while reading the books
>>>>
>>> Don't forget the cringing. Especially in _A_Civil_Campaign_.
>>>
>> What?! Are you a guy? ;-)
> That dinner scene had me laughing and reading bits to my wife for a
> couple days. But it's also the exact sort of comedy of nerves that
> drives me out of movies to buy popcorn.
>
Moriarty
Sep 25, 2011, 7:39:45 PM9/25/11
to
On Sep 25, 8:09 am, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:41:44 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
>
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:41:44 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
>
> <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> > Well, the part where Cthulhu is run over by the boat CAN be funny but I
> >don't know if that's from the characters, per se.
>
> > ;)
>
> Cthulhu is much more interesting (to me) when Stross writes him.
Stross is good, Gaiman is better:
> > Well, the part where Cthulhu is run over by the boat CAN be funny but I
> >don't know if that's from the characters, per se.
>
> > ;)
>
> Cthulhu is much more interesting (to me) when Stross writes him.
http://www.neilgaiman.com/p/Cool_Stuff/Short_Stories/I_Cthulhu
-Moriarty
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Sep 25, 2011, 7:58:42 PM9/25/11
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J.Pascal
Sep 25, 2011, 9:28:52 PM9/25/11
to
But reading it over again is like watching a train wreck and I just
can't watch.
-Julie
Lynn McGuire
Sep 25, 2011, 11:33:54 PM9/25/11
to
a fast ball below the belt and Miles takes about two,
maybe three in _A_Civil_Campaign_. It's a wonder he
could still have children later <g>.
Lynn
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