Alternative Comedy
Kinetic
What exactly is alternative comedy?
--
Kinetic (Wow! 2 Cents!)
Brian Westley
If you're going to a comedy club, the club
across the street is the alternative.
HTH.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
NEACOW
>If you're going to a comedy club, the club
>across the street is the alternative.
>HTH.
>
>---
>Merlyn LeRoy
Yeah I think a lot of alternative comedy is the equivalent of poetry that
doesn't rhyme - it's like jokes that aren't funny. That's what I've seen
mostly...but then sometimes alternative means those jokes that people tell you
are too esoteric and only the top 10% of the crowd would get it...those jokes
make up the bulk of some alternative comedy.
NEACOW
http://members.xoom.com/NEACOW/index.htm
IMPROVFOOL
>What exactly is alternative comedy?
alternative comedy..See: Mime
VJohnson
Or alternative has been construed as comedy that doesn't follow a 1-2
punchline rhythm. For example, comedy as "storytelling", which is why
they probably called it storytelling to begin with, and not
"comedy"...hmmm...
Nowadays, if you ask a performer what they do, chances are that whether
they're in a sketch group or a monologuist, they'll tell you they're an
alternative comedian.
Vic
Kinetic
So, if I bomb one night I can tell everyone it was alternative?
Seriously though, is this an actual art, or just a weird little thing that
weird little people like.
NEACOW <nea...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980116184...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
Al Bell
"Kinetic" <kin...@removethisblurb.cyberbeach.net> writes:
>What exactly is alternative comedy?
>--
In New York, there seem to be two different definitions of alternative
comedy.
One is comedy performances that to take place in weird little
theaters like Surf Reality and Collective Unconscious. Some of the comics
there may use props, mug the audience or drink urine. But a lot of regular
setup-punchline comics who are hungry for stage time perform at those
theaters.
A second type of "alternative comedy" is comedy done by sketch comics and
improv comics who want to get onto shows like Saturday Night Live. They
tend to be older, better-trained and backed by more trust funds than the
Surf Reality folks. They show up at fake alternative clubs like Luna
Lounge. They are about as alternative as the performers in a Carol Burnett
skit.
One thing to keep in mind: no matter what kind of comic you are, it
probably makes more sense to get some funny performers together, rent Surf
Reality for two hours and put on your own show than it does to "bring
three paying guests" (or seven paying guests, or 15 paying guests) to a
preshow at a regular comedy club in New York.
Surf Reality is about $50 for two hours. Bringing three paying guest to a
preshow will probably cost them a total of $45 to $60. So, even if you
perform by yourself and just three paying guests show up, you'll do better
financially by renting Surf. If you have good, genuinely marketable show
and you're good at marketing (huge if's), you might be able to get 20
guests at $6 apiece and make a $70 profit. If you ever get to the point
where you are attracting 20 new, satisfied audience members every week,
not just repeat visits by friends, then you will probably be close to the
point at which clubs and agents are happy to talk to you.
If you really hate alternative sperformance spaces, you can achieve
similar goals by paying a little more money and getting space at a
cabaret.
--
Al Bell's Bell Jar - http://users.vnet.net/allbell/belljar.html *
"I'm just crazy about it." - Sylvia Plath
Featuring: "Terror at 30 Rock (or: The Peacock Had Fangs)"
all...@vnet.net *NOTE CHANGE IN ADDRESS
NEACOW
>Seriously though, is this an actual art, or just a weird little thing that
>weird little people like.
Is it "art"? Dunno...but it seems to appeal to students here in Cambridge, or a
certain type of person. If you recycle, don't eat meat, pierce yourself in
every place you can think of, call your tattoos "body art" and know what a
"goth" is and like it...you're probably into alternative comedy.
By the way ... in case there is any confusion ... the comedy studio is NOT
alternative comedy - mr. hubby to be is there this weekend and he's not
alternative he's just...himself. But...they are alternative-friendly in the
sense that the Weekly Week kids do a PS Absurdo thing there on Friday
nights...but even at that, they are aware that the crowd at the studio is not
the crowd at the Green Street Grill. Make no mistake, alternative comics know
that there is a standup tradition and the good ones can roll with the gig and
the crowd.
This new trend, I hear, emerged in the coffee houses and places like that.
There's this place here called "Passim" that always gave stage time to
alternative comedy, going back many years. In the recent past, it was more like
the Whoopee Goldberg stage show she did, you know - where you shine such a
bright light on life as it really is that, when you're done, you just feel
guilty for everything. Newer trends don't seem to be guilt-laden indictments
of society, but attempts at making life seem....absurd? Yeah, I think that's
what I want to say.
Alternative comedy is definitely growing in popularity especially here in the
Cambridge area...and Eugene Mirman, who perhaps ushered it in better than
anyone else around, is getting lots of ink and attention these days, but
whether it will displace stand up as an art is anybody's guess...I don't think
so. I like punch lines, and I like to laugh. It doesn't seem to have as much of
a format. One man reads letters he exchanged with a major corporation about a
product...Eugene has a bit about reading his favorite fortunes from fortune
cookies...and Eugene has a lot of references to Japanese poetry. I never use my
degree, except when I am watching Eugene perform.
NEACOW
http://members.xoom.com/NEACOW/index.htm
Sashaw
Comedy:
Why can't Helen Keller drive? Because she's a woman.
Alternative Comedy:
Why can't Helen Keller drive? Because....she's blind...AND DEAF!!!!! (laugh,
mug, on to next joke).
Sam
Kaufman created a monster.
act...@greenhart.com
sas...@aol.com (Sashaw) wrote:
>(laugh, mug, on to next joke).
The way I've seen it is:
"laugh, mug, flip through your handful of crumpled notes for 2 minutes"
Delishhhh
alternative comedy: an alternative to comedy
Comic228
>From: deli...@aol.com (Delishhhh)
>alternative comedy: an alternative to comedy
Does this mean when I make people cry, I'm an Alternative Comic?
-=- Bob (I hate it when that happens) Crawford
---------------------------------------
"He who is silent is understood to consent."
Co-me-di-an; n; 1 One who has chosen not to consent.
---------------------------------------
http://members.aol.com/comic228/crawford.html
Delishhhh
>Does this mean when I make people cry, I'm an Alternative Comic?
yes.
Brian Westley
bam11...@aol.com (BAM1106016) writes:
>sashaw says:
>>Alternative Comedy:
>>Why can't Helen Keller drive? Because....she's blind...AND DEAF!!!!! (laugh,
>>mug, on to next joke).
>There's also "bad": Because she's dead.
If she skied into a tree, would she make a sound?
---
Merlyn LeRoy
Stuart O. Bronstein
Delishhhh <deli...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Does this mean when I make people cry, I'm an Alternative Comic?
>
>yes.
What about if they just fall asleep?
--
Stu (delete * from email address)
Happiness is not having what you want.
It is wanting what you have.
NEACOW
>What about if they just fall asleep?
>
>
No, that's experimental theater.
NEACOW
http://members.xoom.com/NEACOW/index.htm
CrazyComic
Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:
> Delishhhh <deli...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>Does this mean when I make people cry, I'm an Alternative Comic?
> >
> >yes.
>
> What about if they just fall asleep?
>
Then your called a political writer. =)
--
* *
CrazyComic (éżč) ™ <----- (Not my photo)
mailto:crazy...@bellsouth.net
DaVerge
>.and Eugene Mirman, who perhaps ushered it in better than
>anyone else around, is getting lots of ink and attention these days,
Eugene cracks me up...I think he has a huge future..but you're right...I can't
see that displacing stand-up.
LV
Eugene Mirman
Alternative comedy is just people trying out different sorts of
things on stage. A lot of it is terrible, but some of it is
incredible. It's like standup.
I've seen some alternative comedy that's just people mumbling
incoherently. In those instances it seems as though people forget the
comedy part of alternative comedy.
Alternative comedy is also a good way of marketing comedy. Boston,
where I am, used to be an incredible place for comedy. But eventually,
lots of clubs closed down.
When people now think of standup, they think of a guy in a jacket
talking about how extremely different men are from women. And though
that isn't the case, it's how it's percieved. Some places do survive
because they have fairly traditional people talking about things that
everyone, especially tourists, can relate to. But if you're starting
out, and you want to do something different, and you're not in New
York or L.A. it's not so easy to get stage time. No one knows who you
are, they certainly don't want you trying out stuff that will alienate
their customers. It's not unreasonable, it just means that there need
to be other venues.
There's also a large audience for people who don't want to see
tedious theater or are tired of what they presume they'll see at a
mainstream club.
Ultimately, what you're doing is either funny or it isn't and you
either are enjoying what you're doing or you're not. I don't think
alternative comedy is so mysterious or complex.
-Eugene
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Lounge Soot: A night of alternative comedy
Every Thursday at 10:30 at the Green Street Grill in Central Square
280 Green Street Cambridge, MA $3
"One of the smartest comedy nights in town." - The Boston Phoenix
My humor homepage: http://hamp.hampshire.edu/~ebmF92/index.html
New! Weekly Week Homepage: http://www.weeklyweek.com
(Boston's only redundant
news source for news)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Stuart O. Bronstein
DaVerge <dav...@aol.com> wrote:
Is this another one of those "bigger is better" threads?
--
Stu (delete * from email address)
"When two people are under the influence of the most violent, most insane,
most delusive, and most transient of passions, they are required to swear
that they will remain in that excited, abnormal, and exhausting condition
continuously until death do them part."
-George Bernard Shaw
MOTEQ1
All this criticism of alternative comedy, but who has honestly watched it
enough to criticize? i've seen great "alternative" watching 2 guys play a
backgammon game and call the plays as though they were commenting on a hockey
game, to lame stuff that gets all the bad press. Good alternative can be great
to watch, and yes, it is a slower beat then stand up, but it can be just as
satisfying.
NEACOW
>All this criticism of alternative comedy, but who has honestly watched it
>enough to criticize?
Some of it is wonderful and I am a big supporter of Eugene's club, and of the
Weekly Week (perhaps the only alternative comedy paper in print). It's just
that, like Standup, there is also crap.
I think a lot of this thread is tongue-in-cheek jokes about it not being funny
cause it isn't packed with punchlines.... I know some standups who have
experimented with alternative comedy to stretch a bit and have enjoyed it.
NEACOW
http://members.xoom.com/NEACOW/index.htm
NEACOW
Well said, Eugene! It's about time someone who works IN alternative comedy came
in on this thread!
Now...back to my nipple piercing class...
;-)
Melly
NEACOW
http://members.xoom.com/NEACOW/index.htm
JW
I still have no idea what alternative comedy is. As far as I can follow, it
is anything that is not the standard setup+punchline joke. I wish I could
see some, but I live in the middle of the woods - could I catch any of it
on TV?
NEACOW <nea...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980120100...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
Joe Wilson
I was doing "alternative comedy" in Boston under the categories of
"performance art" and "performance comedy." If you think that all
performance art involves yams and sacreligious diatribes you haven't
seen much of it. Granted, a lot of it is crap, but that goes for
anything.
In Boston I was part of a twenty year old artists group, Mobius, which
also runs a gallery and performance space (non-profit). I developed and
presented two evening length shows over the past five years there, did a
little touring, and then the funding dried up for tours. The second
show, titled "Subject To Stress" (co-written and performed with Mary
Keefe O'Brien) got great reviews in the Boston Globe and the Boston
Phoenix and caught the eye of a production company in LA. 7 months ago
Mary and I moved from Boston to LA.
There wasn't alot of opportunity for stage time in Boston to work stuff
out and there were few medium sized venues to put up 90 minute shows. In
LA I can get stage time (open mics) almost every night of the week. I am
also a regular in "Alexandra Karovas Alternative Comedy Show" at the
Comedy Store.
Industry (TV/MP) is interested in "alternative comedy" that's smart,
funny and has a point. There are a lot of comics who ride the line
between club friendly stand up and alternative. If you do road work you
gotta have some dick jokes or at least subject matter that the consumer
can connect with. I don't think that alternative comedy necessarily
means that the form presented on stage is not akin to the art of stand
up. I think much of it is different in presentation style, subject
matter, and sometimes timing, but under the hood it's still comedy. I
have seen comics doing club material in alternative venues who were
baffled by the lack of audience response. The subject matter (dating,
being cheap, watching television, airline jokes, hotels....) turned the
audience off and the jokes did not cull anything that hadn't been heard
before or showed a new viewpoint.
Plug: I'll be back in Boston (OK, Cambridge) as part of the line up at
the Comedy Studio at the Hong Kong, this Friday the 23rd at 8PM, for one
night. I'll be at the Comedy Store in the Belly Room on 2/8, 2/15, and
2/22 at 8PM.
Eugene, are you hosting Friday?
-Joe Wilson
Eugene Mirman
> Plug: I'll be back in Boston (OK, Cambridge) as part of the line up
> at the Comedy Studio at the Hong Kong, this Friday the 23rd at 8PM,
> 2/15, and 2/22 at 8PM.
>
> Eugene, are you hosting Friday?
>
> -Joe Wilson
Yeah. I'm hosting Friday.
-Eugene
CatheB
MOTEQ1 wrote:
>
> All this criticism of alternative comedy, but who has honestly watched it
> backgammon game and call the plays as though they were commenting on a hockey
> game, to lame stuff that gets all the bad press. Good alternative can be great
> to watch, and yes, it is a slower beat then stand up, but it can be just as
> satisfying.
look, I gotta cop to it...I get called "alternative" alot cos I do story
based humor instead of punch-punch stuff. I think it's cos my influences
were Phyllis Diller, Moms Mabely, Bill Cosby, and George Carlin......I
got hooked on Lenny Bruce in high school. He would have been considered
alternative, I'm sure. I also do alot of "taboo" that's not funny
subjects...and leave people laughing. And...my greatest hero and
influence is Ernie Kovacs. SO, I guess if he was considered alternative,
then it's not so bad.
Cathe(Short person does not equal half wit)B
C. Oppenhiem
In article <19980120100...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, nea...@aol.com (NEACOW) wrote:
>I think a lot of this thread is tongue-in-cheek jokes about it not being funny
>cause it isn't packed with punchlines.... I know some standups who have
>experimented with alternative comedy to stretch a bit and have enjoyed it.
Hey there Miss Neocow!
I agree with you over 100% on this one. Back in high school, they told me I
shouldn't experiment with drugs because it would hurt my mind. I guess they
forgot to tell this to Ms. Rhett Butler and now she's had to go through a lot
of hard times because of experimenting.
All I'm saying is that experimenting with comedy is good, but don't let it
lead to comedy abuse or you'll be sorry when your locked in a detox unit in
Tuscon.
Miss Neocow's 2nd biggest supporter
Candy Oppenheimer
(No relation to Randy or Terri)
this*@cyberbeach.net Kinetic
C. Oppenhiem <coppe...@aol.com> wrote in article
<6a3igm$2h8$1...@news.onramp.net>...
> In article <19980120100...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
nea...@aol.com (NEACOW) wrote:
> >I think a lot of this thread is tongue-in-cheek jokes about it not being
funny
> >cause it isn't packed with punchlines.... I know some standups who have
> >experimented with alternative comedy to stretch a bit and have enjoyed
it.
>
> Hey there Miss Neocow!
>
> I agree with you over 100% on this one. Back in high school, they told
me I
> shouldn't experiment with drugs because it would hurt my mind. I guess
they
> forgot to tell this to Ms. Rhett Butler
Rhett Butler is the male lead in "Gone whit the Wind". Brett is the
comedian from "Grace".
(Just trying to help)
Stuart O. Bronstein
CatheB <cat...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Cathe(Short person does not equal half wit)B
Some people have a vast repertoire. Mine is half vast.
--
Stu (delete * from email address)
"Christ died for our sins. Dare we make his martyrdome meaningless by
not committing them?"
-Jules Feiffer
the_logical_positivist
>Rhett Butler is the male lead in "Gone whit the Wind". Brett is the
>comedian from "Grace".
Then who's the former Dodgers center fielder?
Jim Kuenzer
Duke Snider?
--
--jim
DaVerge
>Some of it is wonderful and I am a big supporter of Eugene's club, and of
>the
>Weekly Week (perhaps the only alternative comedy paper in print). It's just
>that, like Standup, there is also crap.
>
>funny
>cause it isn't packed with punchlines.... I know some standups who have
>experimented with alternative comedy to stretch a bit and have enjoyed it.
Right...think about it...If Steve Martin started out today...he'd be considered
alternative...especially in Boston.
Lauren
NEACOW
>Right...think about it...If Steve Martin started out today...he'd be
>considered
>alternative...especially in Boston.
>Lauren
>
>
that's what's so great about alternative - now I admit I like traditional
standup a little better but there are lousy comics in every style - but at
least alternative comedy doesn't tie one down to a formula,and the freedom can
be disastrous for some comics, freeing for others...it is amazing to see
someone like Eugene hit it and when he does - look out, that very loud female
laugh hiding in the back corner is me...
Melly
NEACOW
http://members.xoom.com/NEACOW/index.htm
hugh alford
I'm still at a loss on the distinction between the general term comedy
and alt.comedy ? Is it in the body of the material or delivery ?
Mamba
NEACOW
>I'm still at a loss on the distinction between the general term comedy
>and alt.comedy ? Is it in the body of the material or delivery ?
>
> Mamba
>
>
I wish I could seriously explain this - maybe Eugene or Lauren can come in and
clarify...it's really just less structured, I think.
Guys??
NEACOW
http://members.xoom.com/NEACOW/index.htm
MOTEQ1
Alternative generally relies less on a set up/punch formula. In a sense, it is
closer to stream of consciousness stand up, then most structured stand up
performed in the clubs today.
Lorne
Kinetic
I saw three naked guys holding balloons on Just for Laughs. Is this
alternative comedy?
hugh alford <hal...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<34C8DE...@mindspring.com>...
> NEACOW wrote:
> >
> > >Right...think about it...If Steve Martin started out today...he'd be
> > >considered
> > >alternative...especially in Boston.
> > >Lauren
> > >
> > >
> >
> > that's what's so great about alternative - now I admit I like
traditional
> > standup a little better but there are lousy comics in every style - but
at
> > least alternative comedy doesn't tie one down to a formula,and the
freedom can
> > be disastrous for some comics, freeing for others...it is amazing to
see
> > someone like Eugene hit it and when he does - look out, that very loud
female
> > laugh hiding in the back corner is me...
> >
> > Melly
> > NEACOW
>
Alooo haha
Hugh Alford wrote:
>I'm still at a loss on the distinction between the general term comedy
>and alt.comedy ? Is it in the body of the material or delivery ?
>
> Mamba
Alternative comedy is any form of comedy that doesn't follow the standard set
up- punch formula.
I'm one who's not a big fan of alternative comedy. There's the occasional funny
act, but usually alternative comics (in my area anyway) are more like
storytellers. While they think their stories are hilarious, I find they often
fall in the "You had to be there" realm.
However, alternative comedy is becoming very popular- just goes to show that
everybody has their own taste. If you want to get a real feel for what
alternative comedy is like, watch "Uncabaret" on Comedy Central.
ALOHA
Alooo haha
Kinetic asked:
>I saw three naked guys holding balloons on Just for Laughs. Is this
>alternative comedy?
Actually, they were holding condoms. And it's called "alternative lifestyle."
hugh alford
Was Andy Kaufman alternative ? His insanity was outstanding.
special guest Mamba
Kinetic
I still don't follow. Could someone give an example? Maybe a short bit they
have seen?
MOTEQ1 <mot...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980123235...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Kinetic
Boston's a 2 day drive for me. Could you please explain what alternative
comedy is instead of what it is not?
Eugene Mirman <ebm...@hamp.hampshire.edu> wrote in article
<34C3AD...@hamp.hampshire.edu>...
> Alternative comedy is just people trying out different sorts of
> things on stage. A lot of it is terrible, but some of it is
> incredible. It's like standup.
etc.
Kinetic
So, Bill Cosby's "Noah's Ark" bit would be alternative? Wow, that means I
love alternative comedy!
Alooo haha <aloo...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980123225...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
NEACOW
>Boston's a 2 day drive for me. Could you please explain what alternative
>comedy is instead of what it is not?
>
>
Maybe what you should do is direct an email right to Eugene Mirman himself
cause I think he can help you and I am not sure if he has the time to come in
here as much as the rest of us...
ebm...@hamp.hampshire.edu
I don't know what else to tell you - I think you can define standup but not
really alternative comedy...
hugh alford
Kinetic wrote:
>
> Boston's a 2 day drive for me. Could you please explain what alternative
> comedy is instead of what it is not?
>
> <34C3AD...@hamp.hampshire.edu>...
> > Alternative comedy is just people trying out different sorts of
> > things on stage. A lot of it is terrible, but some of it is
> > incredible. It's like standup.
> etc.
If it's quick wit to the heart, I'll buy it. If it's a rambling
sub-referenced tedium to nowhere, I'm gone. Mamba
NEACOW
OK first, can we all stop breaking the thread into a bunch of little one-post
threads? This is very annoying guys...it's hard to go back and find something
when there are 20 subject lines that say re: alternative comedy.
Second...it wouldn't be very cool to quote someone's bit word for word
here...so I am sorry kinetic, but that's not gonna happen.
Check out Eugene's web site...he has some of his "old writings" and "new
writings" on there. If that doesn't help, there is some show someone posted in
here that they recommend on comedy central - unfortunately I cannot locate it
cause there are so many fucking threads with the same subject line (this is
really pissing me off I like organization, dammit!) but it's some cabaret show
I think...try looking at that show.
Third, ok so Boston is a 2 day drive...well I certainly would not recommend
that you drive to Boston for an alternative comedy experience...but I would
recommend that you look for it in your area. I am sorry it doesn't fit into a
definition or something neater for you, but it doesn't...that's what it's
about. It's much more liberated than standup formula.
NEACOW
http://members.xoom.com/NEACOW/index.htm
CatheB
watch andy kaufman tapes, watch jake johansson....(sp??) the two have
extremely different styles, but I would consider both to be
alternative..Jake is a very amazing with "his Okay that was weird, now
I'll add really weird to it" way of doing bits. He's kind of like a
crossword puzzle of connecting non sequitors.
CatheB
I made that same exact point! Yes, I think cosby is alternative..so was
moms mabely, and she was a fantastic story teller....
Cathe(he was old...and uuu-gggggllllllyyyyy)B
Keith Hoffman
NEACOW <nea...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980124162...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> >Could you please explain alternative
> >comedy ...?
>
> ... direct an email right to Eugene Mirman
>
> ebm...@hamp.hampshire.edu
>I think you can define standup...not
> ... alternative comedy.
>
> NEACOW
> http://members.xoom.com/NEACOW/index.htm
>
Alternative comedy is a product of our society. The dumbing down of
America, if you will. I believe the term "alternative comedy" was created
much for the same reason "alternative music" was created. Alternative music
needed a category for those who couldn't carry a tune or play an
instrument. Apparently it has spilled over into comedy.
Keith Hoffman - the most hated person @ alt.comedy.standup
http://www.midlink.com/khoffman/
Kinetic
Oh! Well I understand the alternative music thing. so, does this mean if an
alternative comic becomes successful, the alternative comedy fans stop
thinking he is talented?
Keith Hoffman <khof...@midlink.com> wrote in article
<01bd28f6$b555b200$32f735ce@keithhof>...
Oppenhiem
CatheB Said:
>watch andy kaufman tapes, watch jake johansson....(sp??)
>the two have extremely different styles, but I would
>consider both to be alternative..Jake is a very amazing
>with "his Okay that was weird, now I'll add really weird
>to it" way of doing bits. He's kind of like a
>crossword puzzle of connecting non sequitors.
You mean like doing those Mad Libs?
He reminds me of Mad Libs.
Randy O.
Kinetic
1. I'm Canadian, so I don't get comedy central.
2. I'm Canadian, so it might not be done here.
3. Know what I am looking for, so I don't have much chance of finding it.
4. I didn't want someone's act. Just a quick description. For example, I
asked if three naked guys holding dancing with balloons would be
alternative comedy.
5. Eugene's web site would be ????? www.eugene.com?
6. The problem isn't broken threads, it's people not quoting, so You have
no idea what they are talking about.
7. Remind me not to post to you during the 22, 23, 24, 25, and 26th of
every month.
NEACOW <nea...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980124173...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...