Don't bogart that joint
aick...@yahoo.com
that joint, my friend, pass it over to me. Roooll anotherone, just like
theotherone," was first sung (according to Bob Macken, "The Rock Music Source
Book" (1980)) by The Fraternity of Man on the soundtrack to "Easy Rider,"
during a silent sequence in which a young lawyer is turned on to pot by
hippies. The actual title was "Don't Bogart Me" (by E. Ingber), but Little
Feat performed the song, on their 1978 live album "Waiting for Columbus,"
under the title "Don't Bogart That Joint."
"Easy Rider" was released while the Firesign Theatre was writing their own
movie, "Zachariah." Phillip Proctor recollected: "David Ossman comes out
with this name, 'Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me the Pliers,' one day when
we're riding to a meeting on 'Zachariah,' which is the first two lines to a
song. We decided to name our album that...." (quoted in "Art Is Cheese Made
Visible," "Creem," vol. 4, no. 5, Oct. 1972, p. 39.) In September, Ossman
put the line in "Forward Into The Past," wheezing, "Don't crush that dwarf,
come in. I'm the strange Dr. Weird."
The song's fourth line was later used on side two of "Bozos" to introduce
Hideo Knutt's Boltadrome. (BBOP 122.)
"Easy Rider" is the earliest attested use of "bogart" with reference to a
marijuana cigarette. Previously, the expression "to bogart a joint" meant to
force everyone in it to join in a patriotic song like "The Marseilleise." Or
like Nick Danger urging everybody to take off their hats for a few choruses of
"Blue Hawaii."
Yours. Schoolboy.
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Larry Yaeger
> Phillip Proctor recollected: "David Ossman comes out
> with this name, 'Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me the Pliers,' one day when
> we're riding to a meeting on 'Zachariah,' which is the first two lines to a
> song. We decided to name our album that...." (quoted in "Art Is Cheese
> Made
> Visible," "Creem," vol. 4, no. 5, Oct. 1972, p. 39.) In September, Ossman
> put the line in "Forward Into The Past," wheezing, "Don't crush that dwarf,
> come in. I'm the strange Dr. Weird."
>
> The song's fourth line was later used on side two of "Bozos" to introduce
> Hideo Knutt's Boltadrome. (BBOP 122.)
Hmm. Now you've got me wondering if, perhaps, there really is a song that
has the Dwarf title as its actual lyrics. Though the rest of your very
interesting and informative post was about The Fraternity of Man's "Don't
Bogart Me" (or "Don't Bogart that Joint"), "Don't Crush that Dwarf, Hand Me
the Pliers" is, of course, not a lyric in that song. Still, I suspect
you're right. Phil P may indeed have been reefering :) to the Fraternity
of Man song, since its first couple of lines serve well as a sensible
interpretation of the Dwarf title. I'll never forget (though I'm surprised
I remember) the first time a friend and I were using a pair of needle-nosed
pliers as our roach holder and, without really analyzing it before, I
spouted that line as I asked him to pass them to me. "Oh, wow"s and
giggles all 'round. Ah, youth.
I'm not sure if I read this or was told it in conversation with one of The
Guys, but the Dwarf line is also, supposedly, an obscure reference (or
perhaps more of a known free association) to the WW II practice of hiring
very short people to work inside the wings of the larger aircraft--bombers
and such. Allegedly, those areas were large enough to accommodate a dwarf
or a midget, but not an average-sized person, so small folks contributed to
the war effort by crawling inside the wings and applying pliers and other
tools to fix problems that would otherwise have been difficult to reach.
And, yeah, "Here comes another one, just like the other one.", from Bozos,
is (deliberately, one presumes) very reminiscent of the Bogart song's "Roll
another one, just like the other one."
Odd and pleasant timing. I just managed to get a bunch of old vinyl LPs
out of some boxes and up onto shelves this weekend. Noticed the Fraternity
of Man album, in fact. Synchronicity strikes again.
For bonus points, what was the other <ahem> "hit" song on that Fraternity
of Man album?
- larryy
--------<http://pobox.com/~larryy>--------<mailto:lar...@pobox.com>---------
"Learn how to make an attractive bookend out of a shoe box and a brick!"
DrJawn
>"Easy Rider" is the earliest attested use of "bogart" with reference to a
>marijuana cigarette. Previously, the expression "to bogart a joint" meant to
>force everyone in it to join in a patriotic song like "The Marseilleise." Or
>like Nick Danger urging everybody to take off their hats for a few choruses of
>"Blue Hawaii."
I could not discern how far aickelin's tongue was implanted in one or
another of his cheeks, BUT, there was NO reference to a marijuana
cigarette in the use of Bogart, but to the behavior of holding onto said
joint, as Bogey did with his fiendish and fatal tabacco cigarette habit
in his movies, and perhaps elsewhere.
It is somewhat smoky in those areas of my memory, but I remember going
to see Easy Rider when it was out, and thinking I had heard that song
before, maybe just by that group, or maybe someone doing a cover, don't
know. In my circles it was clear that treating a joint as Bogey treated
his cigs was what was understood from the song. To suggest a connection
between the lines ". . . . just like the other one" and Firesign Theater
scripts seems kinda thin, methinks. It seems to me to be just in the
spirit of the song and its subject matter.
my few cents.
dj
Adolf Tree
>
> Book" (1980)) by The Fraternity of Man on the soundtrack to "Easy Rider,"
> during a silent sequence in which a young lawyer is turned on to pot by
> hippies. The actual title was "Don't Bogart Me" (by E. Ingber), but
Would this be Elliot Ingber, guitarist on the first Mothers of Invention
album, by any chance.
-AT
--
Adolf Tree (but twice a year, I'm Captain Equimox!)
cmsi...@PHILATELISTyahoo.com (remove the, ah, stamps from my email to
reply)
http://members.tripod.com/~cmsienkofoundation (don't hold your breath
for any new content any time soon...sigh)
Dick Weed
>Would this be Elliot Ingber, guitarist on the first Mothers of Invention
>album, by any chance.
Same guy. If you have a vinyl copy of Little Feat's "Waiting for
Columbus" (where the tune is covered), he's pictured on the inside
jacket.
-Weed
aick...@yahoo.com
drjawn@java_net.com wrote:
> It is somewhat smoky in those areas of my memory, but I remember going
> to see Easy Rider when it was out, and thinking I had heard that song
> before, maybe just by that group, or maybe someone doing a cover, don't
> know.
Dear Dr. Jawn:
Your excellent memory corrects Macken's "Rock Music Source Book:" as you
suspected, "Don't Bogart Me" was around almost a year before "Easy Rider" was
released. The song was on an album entitled "The Fraternity of Man," ABC
Records ABCS-647 (1968) (or ABC 11106 from September of 1968).
Earlier attestations of the verb "to bogart someone" are registered in
Lighter's "Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang," but these
exemplify the meaning "to force or coerce; bully; intimidate." (I withdraw my
flippant suggestion that you can bogart everbody in a crowd into singing the
same song.) The earliest example in Lighter that has anything to do with
cigarettes or joints is "Easy Rider." One or two postings on other newsgroups
recall the phrase, without giving specific dates, from the "Freak Brothers"
underground comics.
aick...@yahoo.com
Larry Yaeger <spam...@should.all.go.die> wrote:
> I'll never forget (though I'm surprised
> I remember) the first time a friend and I were using a pair of needle-nosed
> pliers as our roach holder and, without really analyzing it before, I
> spouted that line as I asked him to pass them to me.
Likewise, eventual understanding of the enigmatic album title "Don't Crush
That Dwarf, Hand Me the Pliers" came to me while asking for the roach holder.
Originally the paraphrase of "Don't Bogart That Joint" must have occurred to
Ossman at just such an exigency. Proctor's ambiguously worded recollection
does not decide whether he heard Ossman's request as a song quotation or a
song parody.
> I'm not sure if I read this or was told it in conversation with one of The
> Guys, but the Dwarf line is also, supposedly, an obscure reference (or
> perhaps more of a known free association) to the WW II practice of hiring
> very short people to work inside the wings of the larger aircraft.
Allow me to reward your memory by copying the entire paragraph:
'David Ossman comes out with this name, "Don't Drush [sic] That Dwarf, Hand
Me the Pliers," one day when we're riding to a meeting on "Zacharia," which
is the first two lines to a song. We decided to name our album that, and
over the years since then, people have related to me about this, not just in
terms of, "What did you mean by that?" but they'll come to me and say, "You
know, have you heard about the Munchkins?" And I say, "Well, sure, I know
that they got them in European sex circuses and brought them over to New York
and put them in a bus and drove them out to Los Angeles." He said, "Yes,
yes, that's true, but after the movie was made you know what happened to
them?" "Well, no, I don't." "Well, they had no jobs after that, so luckily
for them the Second World War came along and they put all these little
dwarves to work in the defense plants as they were small enough to get inside
the wings of the airplanes and do riveting work." Don't crush that dwarf,
hand me the pliers. Put him to work. Cure the crippled. Hire the
handicapped.'
--Proctor, in "Art Is Cheese Made Visible," Creem, vol. 4, no. 5, Oct. 1972,
p. 39. The transcript continues with several alternate post hoc explanations,
almost as farfetched.
The apt metaphor of the title may be taken as an injunction to the listener
not to give up until he has drawn the utmost meaning from the play.
> For bonus points, what was the other <ahem> "hit" song on that Fraternity
> of Man album?
"Last Call For Alcohol?"
P.S. The Signers' previous album was also named after a real song.
Larry Yaeger
> In article <v0410320ab27fa2ea485a@[206.97.67.130]>,
>> of Man album?
>
> "Last Call For Alcohol?"
Well, that is indeed one of the songs on the LP. It's not what I had in
mind, but I think you get the prize by default, since what I had in mind
appears to have been a memory glitch.
I thought that the Fraternity of Man did a version of (I'm) "Down to Stems
and Seeds Again" (Too)--the song written and recorded by Commander Cody and
the Lost Planet Airmen--and that it was on their first, eponymous album. I
*thought* that it was FoM's version I heard first and knew moderately well.
But a quick web search tells me that the song isn't on either of their LPs,
at least not by that name. Weird.
- larryy
--------<http://pobox.com/~larryy>--------<mailto:lar...@pobox.com>---------
"It is anyway an interesting topic they should be intersected
in a further issue, if you are overheaded next month."
M. L. Pierich
to say I am enjoying all the discussions immensely. Thank you.
However, I do have a question, to wit:
On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:17:17 GMT, aick...@yahoo.com wrote:
>Here's the answer to a question posed last Thursday night. "Don't bogart
>that joint, my friend, pass it over to me.
(snip)
>on the soundtrack to "Easy Rider,"
>during a silent sequence in which a young lawyer is turned on to pot by
>hippies.
Could someone who has the movie on tape check this? I am impressed by
my learned colleagues' knowledge of things of the "60's"; however, my
recollection is that this was one of the tracks played whilst the
three were riding choppers along the highway; the reason I _think_ I
recall this is that it seemed to me to actually belong in the scene
with Jack Nicholson as mentioned above (although, that lack of
subtleness should have been beneath Peter Fonda's standards, I
believe). I shall accept a correction graciously if necessary, since
my mind would have been righteously clouded at the time.
As an aside, would you believe that, even tho' we had been toking
for a few years at that point, none of us really were sure what the
white powder was that was hidden in Cap'n America's gas tank? We
really were innocent hippies back then.
Mike P.
Michael L. Pierich
mic...@epix.net
"The Turkey Ridge Home Page"
http://www.epix.net/~michael/
DrJawn
<snip>
> As an aside, would you believe that, even tho' we had been toking
> for a few years at that point, none of us really were sure what the
> white powder was that was hidden in Cap'n America's gas tank? We
> really were innocent hippies back then.
>
> Mike P.
>
> Michael L. Pierich
> mic...@epix.net
> "The Turkey Ridge Home Page"
> http://www.epix.net/~michael/
Uh, does anybody know what that "white" powder was that interested Mr
Spector so????
dj
Tony Elka
It was cocaine, the screenplay says so.
Tony
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Elka E-mail:shad...@mindspring.com
Shadow Lane, Inc. Voice: 818-985-9151
P.O. Box 1910 Fax: 818-508-5187
Studio City CA 91614-0910 Web-Site: http://www.shadowlane.com
TDT
edition of Fresh Air, with Terry Gross (on NPR, the only station). She
interviewed Fonda and Hopper and Dennis admitted that it was, I believe,
powdered sugar. He also said that while making the film, the boys did
little of the drugs in question. Dennis said marijuana makes him paranoid!
"Easy Rider" has now been included in the Library of Congress! How
incongruous . . .
> > > none of us really were sure what the
> > > white powder was that was hidden in Cap'n America's gas tank? We
> > > really were innocent hippies back then.
> > >
> > > Mike P.
> > >
Chuck
in alt.comedy.firesgn-thtre thought long and hard before saying:
Anybody wanna buy my copy of EZ rider?
BTW, who was it who wanted to create newsgroups? Tim?
Well, how'd it go? Didja make any?
--
Back from the shadows again...
TDT
around to it though, the tutorial is safely tucked away.
Thanx,
Chuck wrote:
>
> Anybody wanna buy my copy of EZ rider?
> BTW, who was it who wanted to create newsgroups? Tim?
> Well, how'd it go? Didja make any?
>
> --
>
> Back from the shadows again...
--
aick...@yahoo.com
mic...@epix.net (M. L. Pierich) wrote:
> [M]y
> recollection is that this was one of the tracks played whilst the
> three were riding choppers along the highway; the reason I _think_ I
> recall this is that it seemed to me to actually belong in the scene
> with Jack Nicholson as mentioned above
-------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Mr.
Elka: Does the screenplay by chance settle this question of the video
context for "Don't Bogart Me?" In rashly asserting that the joint song went
with the Jack Nicholson campfire scene, I relied on memory (sc. surmise)
based on a single viewing in my remote youth, before I had ever experienced
cigarettes, dope or Bogart. (I've still never tried dwarves.)
John Scialli
Since this Fred has resurfaced, here's what Michael Packer has
to add (hassle him at pac...@gvsu.edu)
For more Easy Rider Poop check out the book "Easy Riders, Raging
Bulls: How The Sex, Drugs & Rock 'n' Roll Generation Saved
Hollywood".. Amazing, easy read, fascinating look at a period in
film history where everything changed... Not to be missed, highly
recommended and so on and so forth....
Michael