Heat setting nib/feed
Tony Stanford
Hi -
Anyone (apart from Frank!) had any luck heat setting nib/feeds? I must
be doing something wrong.
Having bought Da Book (well worth the price), I set about trying to
reduce the ink flow on some old Pelican M200 steel nibs, without much
luck.
1. The feeds have horizontal bars on them. Warming the feed with either
a flame or a heat gun to soften it either melts the bars or softens them
enough so that when I press the feed to the nib, the bars get flattened.
2. If I don't get the feed warm enough to soften it (and damage the
horizontal bars), there is no effect when stroking/pressing the feed to
the nib. Obviously, if the feed ain't warm, it won't mould against the
nib. If it is warm, one flattens the bars when 'stroking' it.
3. One particular nib has such a generous flow that the bottom of the
feed, where it presses against the nib, has a permanent blob of ink
round it. But, testing with a piece of thin paper shows that the feed is
actually pressing against the nib! The bars are chock full of ink, too -
more than on my other (working) nibs.
This is all very frustrating. The only way I can reduce the ink flow is
by crossing the tines, but it's the feeds that need doing, and I have
had no success at all.
What am I doing wrong?
TIA
Tony
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FDubiel
>be doing something wrong.
>
>Having bought Da Book (well worth the price), I set about trying to
>reduce the ink flow on some old Pelican M200 steel nibs, without much
>luck.
>
>1. The feeds have horizontal bars on them. Warming the feed with either
>a flame or a heat gun to soften it either melts the bars or softens them
>enough so that when I press the feed to the nib, the bars get flattened.
>
>2. If I don't get the feed warm enough to soften it (and damage the
>horizontal bars), there is no effect when stroking/pressing the feed to
>the nib. Obviously, if the feed ain't warm, it won't mould against the
>nib. If it is warm, one flattens the bars when 'stroking' it.
>
>3. One particular nib has such a generous flow that the bottom of the
>feed, where it presses against the nib, has a permanent blob of ink
>round it. But, testing with a piece of thin paper shows that the feed is
>actually pressing against the nib! The bars are chock full of ink, too -
>more than on my other (working) nibs.
>
>This is all very frustrating. The only way I can reduce the ink flow is
>by crossing the tines, but it's the feeds that need doing, and I have
>had no success at all.
>
>What am I doing wrong?
>
You are not reading Da Book which says heat setting should NOT (and the capital
letters are in Da Book) be done without considerable experience. Pen companies
said it took 3 to 5 years for a repairman to learn heat setting. Thats maybe
6000 full hours before deemed qualified. Back then all nibs in all good pens
were heat set before shipment. ...As for the above you do not say if its a
plastic or rubber feed. Heat setting may work poorly or not at all on plastic
feeds. Nor will heat setting work if the problem is elsewhere which I suspect
in 3 above in that appears to be a tine channel out of adjustment delivering
too muich ink. If a feed passes the paper test its probably OK, so don't fix
it if it ain't broke. You say the feeds need doing, yet if they pass the paper
test, why do you think the feeds need doing at all??? Its far more likely the
tines are out of wack. Finally heat setting can easily damage a feed, esp
exposed thin fins and such. Its only thru more experience that such damage can
be avoided. Some folks pick up the knack easily. Most folks take years. Many
give up after some attempts. its a very worthwhile skill, buit don't expect
great results without much experience and experimenting. On many different
brands of styles of pens. Some pens readily adjust via heat easily. Other do
not. There are no hard and fast rules on which is which other than plastic
feeds being poor for heat setting. Good luck. Frank
FDubiel
Its possible on example 3 there is also some air leak in the pen. A TINY
(almost impossible to locate) air leak can increase flow considerably even
though the pen is otherwise in perfect adjustment.
Finally on pen with exposed radial fins, which are easily damaged by
heat, its sometimes better to apply the heat to the nib side, rather than the
feed side. This keeps some heat away from the easily damaged fins, and the nib
transferes the heat to the inner side of the feed which is the part you want to
adjust to perfect contact. FD
Tony Stanford
Thanks for the advice. I can appreciate the need for 000's of hours of
experience. But it's the old story: don't do it without experience; you
have to start in the first place to clock up the required experience to
get to the 000's of hours. :-}} Seriously, though, thanks for the help.
I shall continue experimenting on my old nibs.
And, yup, it is is a plastic feed. So no heat setting.
Best wishes
Tony Stanford
>There are no hard and fast rules on which is which other than plastic
>feeds being poor for heat setting.
Forgot to ask: if you do have a badly fitting *plastic* feed, how would
you go about setting it, if heat could make it even worse?
Regards
MarkH
I can sympathize with your problem. An answer that says "don't do it
unless you already know how to do it" is the correct answer if you are
unwilling to take any risks, but doesn't really let you make
progress....
Here is what I do, based on my limited experience, screwing it up a
few times, and finally figuring it out.
1. I have never used a flame - I'm sure that would be a disaster for
me. I started out with a cheap heat gun (nicknamed "the feed fryer",
for its proclivity to eat feeds alive). I have moved up to a Bosch
adjustable heat gun, about $125 (I've seen it on Amazon recently). If
I set it on about 2.5, and hold the feed above the air flow for about
15 or more seconds, the feed is soft, but not damaged. (ebonite feeds
only - which most better pens seem to be made of). At this setting
and distance from the gun, the heat gun does not seem to be able to
damage the feed.
2. If you push on the radial fins with your fingers when the feed is
warm and soft, they bend! (duh..). Don't push there - push on the
end. You might consider using a soft tool (possibly the paper stick
from a Q-tip) to do the pushing.
3. The ebonite seems to have some memory. If you have warped the fins,
they _might_ return back to original shape (or at least closer to
their original shape) with just some gentle application of heat and no
touching/pushing. (for more on this, see article mentioned below)
4. A very useful and educational experiment I conducted: I took an old
feed (not in a pen) and held it above the heat gun at different
settings, counting off the seconds. That's where the "2.5 at 15
seconds" came from. I could understand exactly how the feed behaved
with heat. It was only after I did that that I really "got it".
5. I find it works better when the feed is dry. I have seen some
experts do this with ink in the nib, but it doesn't seem to work as
well for me.
6. There is an article titled "Tuning a Fountain Pen" at
http://207.158.201.46/master%202.htm that talks about using boiling
water for the heat source. I have never done this, but it is certainly
worth a read. This is a page from "The Pen Museum" in the U.K.
7. MOST IMPORTANT: Don't try any of this on a pen where you can't
afford to completely damage and destroy, or at least pay for, the
parts you will need to replace. As you have already learned, you
WILL damage some number of pens if you do repairs, particularly when
you don't know anything (as I didn't, and probably still don't ;-)
I'll bet even Frank occasionally ruins a pen. If you can't take the
risk, and don't like the fact that "education is expensive" - in this
case in the cost of damaged pens or parts, than send it to some one
who is in the business.
good luck. Its fun when you finally get the hang of it.
Mark
Tony Stanford
>
>Here is what I do, based on my limited experience, screwing it up a
>few times, and finally figuring it out.
[Big snip of excellent advice]
Thanks for an interesting post. Yes, I've got a similar heat gun.
Problem is, the feeds I've been dealing with are plastic, so as Frank
says, heat is just as likely to warp the feeds away from the nib as
towards it...
I always find that ink flows in new nibs are too heavy for me, so it's a
case of bending the tines together, which is also difficult to do
without ruining the geometry of the nib. And the tines gradually open
with use and need bending in again.
Why don't I use a ball point? (Ducks shower of rotten eggs.)
Thanks again.
Regards
FDubiel
>you go about setting it, if heat could make it even worse?
If heat doesn't work, and it may well not work, like any damaged part beyond
reasonable repair, it should be replaced with another part in good condition
that fits. Most feeds are somewhat generic and anyone fixing pens should have
many on hand. If not, you just have to find a feed that fits better.
Makeshift methods such as building up feeds or sections with wax or other gunk
are terribley crude and seldom work. A repairperson knowing much about pens
would almost never sink to such methods. The goal simply becomes to find
another feed that fits. No different from a clip broken in the middle. One
doesn't try to repair such a clip--it must be replaced with another. Same with
most parts that are broken or so illfitting that repair isn't logical. It then
becomes a matter of replacement. Frank
FDubiel
>http://207.158.201.46/master%202.htm that talks about using boiling
>water for the heat source. I have never done this, but it is certainly
>worth a read.
I'd have to disagree about using boiling water. The water won't hurt plastic,
but It can easily turn a rubber feed, section, cap or barrel grey/green or
other colors instantly. Some feeds wont discolor, others will. One could hope
the ink eventually brings it back to black, but there is no guarantee. The
section cap or barrel could be seriously damaged instantly by hot water.
...I don't object to a heat gun, but to spend $125 for it is excessive IMHO.
Especially when the same money could buy dozens of pens to experiment on with
no fear of loss. My $45 fully adjustable heat gun has a special setting for
hard rubber and is a stock Black & Decker #9754. Its heat control seems to be
as good as on guns costing 2-3 times as much. I still rarely use it and find
it simply will not work where flame often can. (Yes, I've tried $100 plus heat
guns and can see no difference at all..) Money and tools can never be any
substitue for experience. No tool is better than your hands and common sense.
Far too many people spend a small fortune in fancy repair tools and loose sight
of the fact that 99% of all pens need no tools at all costing over a buck.
The only tools of exception would be a cap puller and/or a Vac tool. Please
don't take this as critizism for buying tools, but don't loose sight of the
fact that tools cannot by themselves ever give you much repair skill. In some
ways you may learn more without them. Finally in most cases, esp for a
beginner its far easier to REMOVE the feed, then use heat to bend it either
towards or away from the nib and then reassemble. ...Yes one must be
willing to try and learn and risk breaking something. But that learning curve
should not exclude the use of flame, which is the only way any repair manual
ever explained the way to set a nib. Some specifically say do not use a heat
gun, and the only exception was a special electric heat oven Eversharp made for
the ill fitting 5th Avenue feeds. I've had it, and it didn't work well and
could only be used with the tiny 5th Ave nib/feed at any rate. Frank
Tony Stanford
>6. There is an article titled "Tuning a Fountain Pen" at
>http://207.158.201.46/master%202.htm that talks about using boiling
>water for the heat source. I have never done this, but it is certainly
>worth a read. This is a page from "The Pen Museum" in the U.K.
Since my reply I've looked at this site. Interesting. Thanks for the
URL.
einv
> as good as on guns costing 2-3 times as much. I still rarely use it and find
> it simply will not work where flame often can. (Yes, I've tried $100 plus heat
that's good to know.. my alcohol lamp arrived yesterday and i've just
bought a pint of denatured alcohol, all said less than 15 bucks. i've
earmarked a few wearevers for destruction, before i move on to the
AA waterman and snorkel sections.
after i got the lamp, i felt kinda stupid because it brought up
memories of how i used to make my own using ink bottles for school
science experiments, and kerosene fuel. it seems to me that the
older we get, the more sanitized our tools and approaches, what
with glitzy catalogs and miracle cures. no substitute for the old
'necessity is the mother of invention' and getting the hands a bit
dirty and wise in the process.
MarkH
instructions on the site specifically say not to dip any other part of
the pen other than the feed/nib in the water.
I might also add that in a talk to the Pan Pacific Pen Club, Father
Terry Koch (who specializes in Sheaffer repair, and makes/sells
specialized tools) talked about his heat source. He uses a "hot pot" -
one of those adjustable water heating electric pots usually used to
heat water for coffee or tea. He sets that thermostat at about 180
degrees, and uses the heat source to help take reluctant parts apart.
His strategy is to put the part into a small plastic bag, and dunk the
bag into the hot water, keeping the part dry. The pot is turned on at
the start of his repair day, and is an all day heat source.
I don't think he uses this for bending feeds, but for heating sections
and other parts, etc... although it might be a heat source for feed
alignment.
Mark
MarkH
Balance II), with reasonably good results. But my experience here is
very limited.
Mark
FDubiel
> I might also add that in a talk to the Pan Pacific Pen Club, Father
> Terry Koch (who specializes in Sheaffer repair, and makes/sells
> specialized tools) talked about his heat source. He uses a "hot pot" -
> one of those adjustable water heating electric pots usually used to
> heat water for coffee or tea. He sets that thermostat at about 180
> degrees, and uses the heat source to help take reluctant parts apart.
> His strategy is to put the part into a small plastic bag, and dunk the
> bag into the hot water, keeping the part dry. The pot is turned on at
> the start of his repair day, and is an all day heat source.
That info is also in Da Book on page 27 as part of the discussion about
using heat on pens. I don't care for the idea myself, but if it works for him
or others--go with it. Frank