No Question -- Parker T1 is a $1000 pen
Pasha 913
Parker T1s. The books list it as a $450 - $650 pen. BUT, these pens are going
for $1000-$1200. This pen turns 31 years old this month. Update the price
guides. If nothing more, I think that this is just an interesting observation.
SKC
pash...@aol.com
FDubiel
I would bet one could fill their pockets with em for $600 or so at the Chicago
show next month. What ebay brings is not what a large pen show brings. As I
said before there were dozens of T-1s available at the LA show in Feb. I saw
several in the $400 range, most were 500 to 600. The ones priced closer to
$1000 or over were sets or boxed. IMHO the books are right, its ebay that
wrong. Or just how many $35 to $75 Esterbrooks or $75 common style 51s would
anyone here like to buy? Frank
do...@mail.com
sometimes for no apparent reason at all. Maybe parochial and capitalistic
interests at play, not that there's anything wrong with making a honest buck
or 10. However the Ebay exaggerations and hype can be verity misleading. I
venture to suggest that the median between shows and ebay average would be
a good modus vivendi as far as pricing is concerned.
My 64c worth
"FDubiel" <fdu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010402220600...@ng-mi1.aol.com...
Bill Freeman
Comparing "wholesale" (e.g. pen shows) versus "internet" and local "point"
(retail) is pretty normal. This proves nothing. It's "when" and "where."
The "real" long-term market for T-1s is probably just "up." Like a
mis-printed stamp or MB .. . T-1s will remain unique.
What I object to, and I'm agreeing with Frank here, is that there are
a LOT of older pens that are better made, better writers and just more "fun"
to use than the T-1. I owned two T-1s from way-back-when. They were a
"bum" pen then . . and the same holds true now. Take the "Smithsonian"
approach to 'em .. . look and just don't touch! T-1s are too fragile.
The smoothest pens I've ever met were, in order, a Waterman
Taperite, a Parker 51 and a Lamy "Artus." I have great paise for the
current crop of Lamy 2000s. They've improved the XF and F points. The
fills are sleek and bulletproof (as they were 36 years ago). I'll take a
Lamy 2000 LE over any T-1 any day.
Bill
Fdu...@aol.com
Good points. The T-1 IMHO is one of the worst pens ever made. You
don't belive me--ask Parker which lost tons on money on them and stopped
production cold just as they were into a huge million dollar ad campaign
for the pen. They were coming back as fast as they could be sold at the
time. Yes, its a pretty pen and it appears to be quality made, but it
just doesn't work. Oh, one in every 4 or 5 may work fine, but the rest
all seem to have varied flow problems. Add to that a brittle nib, and
iridium that came off a bit too easily (last I spoke to John M. about it
he still wasn't able to repair these nibs), an "adjustable" nib design
that wasn't very well thought out and also tended to develop rust in the
adjustment screw. Its really the "Edsel" of pens. Like the Edsel, much
of its appeal is in its grand ad campaign and great looks with somewhat
of a "oh pity me please I was designed and built by mistake" appeal when
it comes to really using it. Few who know pens would want a T-1 for a
user. So its appeal is limited to "well, I should have one to show what
a foolish mistake Parker made." Anyone liking the T-1 can get an old
Parker Falcon that at least worked properly in most cases, while keeping
some of, if not all of the T-1 basic style. I won't deny the value of
the Edsel to a car collector (Hey I had one of those klunkers just after
High School, I paid $125 for it, sold it a month later for $75 after
reparing it daily and becoming a laughing stock for owning the damn
thing. Yeah, today it may be worth $5000 or more.) So the T-1 is
interesting in more negative than positive terms, but I cannot belive
its a $1000 pen in todays' market. A collector buys one, usually, and
thats it. No major colors to worry about and variations are minor, so
there is little desire to own another, except to upgrade condition or go
for sets. Of course, if one wants to use the pen, one may need quite a
few before finding a good one. But, yes, one out of each 4 or 5 did
manage to work reasonably well. For everyone else, having one is all
they want or need. Assuming they even want such a classic failure,
which, again, is one of the pen's main attractions today. Frank
Scaupaug
<<http://members.aol.com/scaupaug/murex/index.html>> Why pay $1,000??!!
I'll have more murex pens soon. If you want one held, just e-mail.
do...@mail.com
--
Dov Randel, email: <do...@mail.com> <ta...@actcom.co.il>
34 Dizengoff Street, 64332 Tel Aviv, Israel
tel: +972 52 425784, +972 3 5257166, fax: +972 3 5250581
<Fdu...@aol.com> wrote in message news:3ACA1A...@aol.com...
do...@mail.com
only one in 4 write. Supply and Demand? market forces ant play. Talk about
Milton Friedman miracles. This is a prime example for Economics 101.
Comparison to the Edsel I suppose is in order. However, in general we
pensters and stylophiles, well most I imagine, buy and collect pens in
order to write with. That's what they were made for. Reason d' etre. Not to
sit in a cabinet looking pretty and rusting (apart from the titanium barrel
and cap of course) and iridium wearing off.
They say a zebra is a horse planned and put together by a committee of
engineers. No professional offence to any of you engineers out there.
Seems the T1 too.
--
Bill Freeman
Ramblers, Plymouths etc.) and there are Avantes, Thunderbirds, Auburns,
"Blue Flame" Corvettes, GTOs and so forth and so on. I'm not "anti-" T-1 .
.. just cautious over a pen(s) I've owned that weren't "complete" (i.e.
didn't function as pens).
Murex are great pens. However, if you look hard, you can often find
the stray Lamy 2000 LE for under $200. Better .. . (sorry Frank) . .. the
points, nibs, cap springs, feeds, rubber o-rings are freely (and easily)
interchangeable between all 2000 models over the past 36 years! I challenge
any other "one" model on this sort of interchangeability and ease of
repair. Remember the "maintenance" cost of collectibles! Still, there are
many other excellent, functional and beautiful fountain pens way, way $less$
than these pens. I do not ascribe "price" with "collectible" or even
"scarcity" (though that, sadly, is a factor).
I just find the "T1" mystique a mystery. It leaves me scratching my
head almost as much as the T1 scratches paper. Want to talk about a great,
functional pen .. . although not a fountain (which I prefer) .. . the T1
ballpoint was a "great" jotter! Light, nimble, a good writer with an
interesting "feel." There was no "plastic" to split on the jotter's barrel
(remember this fault?). Carry on .. .
Bill
Fdu...@aol.com
>
> There are the "Edsels" (and DKWs, Cosmopolitans, DeSotos, Studebakers,
> Ramblers, Plymouths etc.) and there are Avantes, Thunderbirds, Auburns,
> "Blue Flame" Corvettes, GTOs and so forth and so on. I'm not "anti-" T-1 .
> .. just cautious over a pen(s) I've owned that weren't "complete" (i.e.
> didn't function as pens).
> Murex are great pens. However, if you look hard, you can often find
> the stray Lamy 2000 LE for under $200. Better .. . (sorry Frank) . .. the
> points, nibs, cap springs, feeds, rubber o-rings are freely (and easily)
> interchangeable between all 2000 models over the past 36 years! I challenge
> any other "one" model on this sort of interchangeability and ease of
> repair. Remember the "maintenance" cost of collectibles! Still, there are
> many other excellent, functional and beautiful fountain pens way, way $less$
> than these pens. I do not ascribe "price" with "collectible" or even
> "scarcity" (though that, sadly, is a factor).
> I just find the "T1" mystique a mystery. It leaves me scratching my
> head almost as much as the T1 scratches paper.
Don't confuse our live in Murex peddler, Nathan, with me. I have no
love or interest in the Murex at all. It works OK, but its short stubby
look when capped leaves me cold. My quote was if someone likes the T-1
style they could get a Parker Falcon. Its just that the T-1 stands
alone is its well deserved status as a mistake. A pen that Parker
redialy admits never should have been made, and was put into production
with virtually no advance testing. One of the few pens in history to be
so committed to a huge production and advertising budget only to be
proven unworkable soon afterwards. Parker's advance dealer info for the
T-1 claimed, for example, the company was committing more money to
advertise that pen than any pen in the company history. More than the
Vacs, 51s, 61s, 75s, more than anything. Obviously after far too many
ad did appear, the remainder of the ad campaign was killed and Parker
licked its wounds as best they could. Frank
Bill Freeman
was so poorly marketed, the Falcon series didn't seem to see much more light
of day . .. at least in the Boston area. Maybe Bromfield, Pen Service and
Harvard Coop had a different view on the era.
Bill
Giovanni Abrate
50.
It was still available in a blister park a couple of years ago for about
$15.
Giovanni
"Bill Freeman" <bf...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:9aflgf$4utvq$1...@ID-82447.news.dfncis.de...
Scaupaug
>the stray Lamy 2000 LE for under $200. Better .. . (sorry Frank) . .. the
>points, nibs, cap springs, feeds, rubber o-rings are freely (and easily)
OK
Who wants lamy pens? I don't use them and don't collect them - and thus don't
know why I have them around the place. $35 each, some 1950's piston fill with
yellow gold nibs and visuated chamber - FLEX!, others Lamy 2000 two tone
composite with hooded nib/west german $45
I also have an odd all steel lamy piston filler that's fat and stubby for $60,
1950ish with an extra fine nib but nice construction.
Of course you know I KNOW the murex is a far better pen than the Parker Falcon
and T-1 and will sing its praises until I die without a care in the world to
any criticism about that from ANYONE, but if you want a falcon I have two used
models with worn plated trim (plated clutch ring and clip) for $35 each and one
other that had a broken section that has been fused and is thus discounted to
$25ppd. (somebody must have sat on it, the T-1 and falcon both have thin
plastic threading). I thought of these as parts, but they do function as
writers if you wish.
Scau...@aol.com (give me a little time to catch up with e-mail)
http://members.aol.com/scaupaug/murex/index.html
.
Steve Lehman
Giovanni Abrate wrote in message ...
>The Falcon sold very well in Argentina, where it was marketed as the Parker
>50.
>It was still available in a blister park a couple of years ago for about
>$15.
>Giovanni
The Parker Falcon was also marketed in the US as the 50. Maybe Parker was
afraid that the T-1 debacle had ruined the market for the 50 ? But anyhow,
Parker seemed to not be very much into inexpensive fountain pens in the
70s - not marketing the 50 very much, and when they cashed in on the
nostalgia fad of the 1970s, their Big Red was only available as a
ballpoint/rollerball. I remember when it came out, I was in high school,
and got one, - but even then, I wondered why it wasn't available as a
fountain pen, - because you could get a sheaffer no nonsense pen in fountain
pen form. But Parker didn't - one assumes it was based on a rational
business decision - but considering that the management team of Parker
eventually sold the whole pen business, to concentrate on Manpower, no one
cared to take a risk like that. Oh well.
S
Fdu...@aol.com
> The Parker Falcon was also marketed in the US as the 50. Maybe Parker was
> afraid that the T-1 debacle had ruined the market for the 50 ? But anyhow,
> Parker seemed to not be very much into inexpensive fountain pens in the
> 70s - not marketing the 50 very much, and when they cashed in on the
> nostalgia fad of the 1970s, their Big Red was only available as a
> ballpoint/rollerball. I remember when it came out, I was in high school,
> and got one, - but even then, I wondered why it wasn't available as a
> fountain pen, - because you could get a sheaffer no nonsense pen in fountain
> pen form. But Parker didn't - one assumes it was based on a rational
> business decision - but considering that the management team of Parker
> eventually sold the whole pen business, to concentrate on Manpower, no one
> cared to take a risk like that. Oh well.
>
After the T-1 Parker gradually wrote off the fountain pen market. It
appears the 50/Falcon was a pen designed more to cash in on already
spent money for T-1 ads in that it gave dealers something to offer as a
newer later replacement model should someone ask for a T-1. Parker
felt soon all fountain pens would vanish forever. They no longer even
made any bottled ink for several years and cartridges were available
only in black or blue. The Big Red was introduced in late 1969 quite a
few years before Sheaffer did the Nostaliga. Sheaffer never dropped
bottled ink. Parker was willing to concede most of whatever was left of
the fountain pen market to Sheaffer. No one else in the US was making
any at the time other then Sheaffer's still fairly extenisve line and
the few cheaper models Parker still had besides the 75 and 180 series.
Then Cliff Lawrence wrote a book... ..some wackos got together for
something called a pen show... and things began to change, slowly at
first, but the change began. Frank
Steve Lehman
Fdu...@aol.com wrote in message <3ACBE5...@aol.com>...
The Big Red was introduced in late 1969 quite a
>few years before Sheaffer did the Nostaliga.
Excellent info Frank, but I was referring to the "nostalgia fad", (note,
small "n") not the Sheaffer
"Nostalgia" pen. Nostalgia, longing for past times, fondly remembering the
past..., - in the 1970s, it was the 1920s that were being remembered -
remember the movie "The Sting", for example.
But your info provides the answer to my question of so many years ago, "why
no 1970s "BIG RED" in fountain pen form. They just left it to Sheaffer...
S
fdu...@aol.com
>
>
>Excellent info Frank, but I was referring to the "nostalgia fad", (note,
>small "n") not the Sheaffer
>"Nostalgia" pen. Nostalgia, longing for past times, fondly remembering the
>past..., - in the 1970s, it was the 1920s that were being remembered -
>remember the movie "The Sting", for example.
>But your info provides the answer to my question of so many years ago, "why
>no 1970s "BIG RED" in fountain pen form. They just left it to Sheaffer...
>
Sheaffer No Nonsense line. And thinking of that line I got Nostalgic I guess.
Those old Big Red ads dripped of nostaliga, with pictures of flapper gals and
cute text talking about finding an old chinese red fountain pen from the 1920s
in an old dresser draw and how Parker was bringing it back updated with modern
design. These earlier Reds were reasonable copies of a late 20s Streamlined
Duofold. Within a few years the pen was cheapened and the black ends and gold
plated trip dropped. Frank
Bill Freeman
still have the yellow ballpoint version for everyday and it held up well.
Question: if Parker was giving up on the fountain pen market .. . why was
the felt tip "Systemark" abandoned? No one else abandoned the felt until
the advent of the "Gel" era. I have several examples of both the original
metal Systemark and its plastic clone .. . and they still work after 1/4 of
a century.
Perhaps "pens" just weren't profitable enough for Parker? Then
again, Vietnam was still to the fore and trying to market the T-1 to the
"astronaut" generation was a misfire (it was still "establishment"). Parket
should have been marketing "counter-culture" ('30's-'40s Casablanca style)
to the "students" . .. if that was indeed possible. It wasn't an easy era
for any established "American" product. I don't blame "fountain" pens over
any other sort of pen.
Bill
<fdu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:V0Zy6.2264$jz.1...@www.newsranger.com...
Bill Freeman
resurrect the model's manufacture? Totally in the dark here.
Bill
stanklem
there are a whole bunch of pens readily available for $500-$600 in the same
room, of course the price will be lower. Economics 101: Supply and Demand.
Most e-bay purchasers can never make it to a major show. Their source for
most pens, outside of dealers, is e-bay. E-bay must be much closer to the
real market.
Stan Klemanowicz
<do...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$wzk7bg$3x1$1...@lnews.actcom.co.il...
Pasha 913
do...@mail.com
pens? nostalgia with a small or big N? Take the Yellow Mandarin brought as
a LE exact replica of the famed Big Yellow. Prices plummeted. The original
is way up there. Supply and demand, plus Parker's fickle marketing. In and
out of the market. Unable to decide whether to call a pen a fountain pen or
merely to go with the wind. I did not know Parker ceased manufacturing inks
for a while. Thank's for this info. If I were going for the Big Red it's a
good original; and not the 70's BP or 90's FP replica.
"Steve Lehman" <leh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9agpki$nbi$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
do...@mail.com
I concur. Please reserve Mr Nathan Murex and after coughing up and
receiving (in excellent condition I presume) I'll post my left handed
writer's critique of this Jap pen creation which is somewhat comparable to
the (in)famous T1 according to some posters.
--
Dov Randel, email: <do...@mail.com> <ta...@actcom.co.il>
34 Dizengoff Street, 64332 Tel Aviv, Israel
tel: +972 52 425784, +972 3 5257166, fax: +972 3 5250581
"Scaupaug" <scau...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20010404135837...@ng-df1.aol.com...
edwardma...@gmail.com
the year is now 2016. i don't think prices for t1 fountain pens have changed much since folks started this thread in 2001. i don't own a t1 but i'm sure i could get one for $500 if i looked. i do like the ballpoints as someone else pointed out. they are just as difficult to find as the fountain pen.
it is interesting to see someone say that pen shows offered wholesale pricing. i never believed that in 2001 and in the year 2016 pen shows are out of this world overpriced. most brick and mortar pen stores are gone now, having gone to the world wide web and pen shows to sell.
maybe i'll come back in another 15 years and see what things look like then.
edward martin
