Fountain pen nib smells??????
Randy
Centennial has started to smell like a sour dish rag? I have a friend who
has an fountain pen that has done the same thing. He tried flushing,
leaving it air out and ammonia. I have tried flushing, airing out all night
and peroxide. We both use Pelikin black ink. I have numerous other pens
and have not had this problem in any other pen.
SMMRFLD
Michael AuYeung
growing mold or something. That might explain the cause of the problem, but
certainly provides no solution.
What you might try is to fill the offending pen with Waterman ink. The smell
from the Waterman ink may be able to cover the "dish rag" smell... but this is a
really strange solution, now that I think of it.
Does anyone out there recommend running very diluted laundry detergent through
the pens?
PENMART10
In article <36512093...@usc.edu>, Michael AuYeung <auy...@usc.edu>
writes:
Your pen has halitosis - gargle with an anti-bacteriostat -
Listerine/Scope/Lavoris.
Sheldon
````````````
On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line:
"I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."
FDubiel
>by
>growing mold or something. That might explain the cause of the problem, but
>certainly provides no solution.
I have posted many times that Pelikan has had many problems with their black
ink. Sooo, if one writes with crap--one should not be surprised to end up
with a pen that smells like crap. Sorry, that is to easy to resist. ...
Such smells are often inbedded INTO the actual parts of the pen and may take
years to get rid of. Outside of a "cover up" smell of something else, simply
using GOOD (Yup--Sheaffer) ink may eventually get rid of the smell sometime in
the next century. Hhey--its not THAT far off, either. Frank
jrich...@my-dejanews.com
straight to the 'two chickens and a goat' solutions. While I must admit that
has worked for me in exorcizing the devils in several of my pens
(particularly Sheaffer snorkles), it is not something that should be tried at
home by other than professionals.
Try this.
Make a mixture of one part rose oil, one part fresh lemon juice and six parts
water. Soak the section and cap in this changing the liquid every thirteen
hours. Replace any parts possible including any converters. After four days
air dry the cap and section after first cleaning out with soft tissue.
Refill the pen with good ink, preferably Parker Quink or Sheaffer Skrip.
Flush completely five to six times. Repeat step one changing the mixture to
one part lavender oil, two parts fresh lime juice and seven parts water.
After three days, remove parts, dry with a tissue and then air dry for four
days.
And if that doesn't work, consider the two chickens and a goat.
In article <19981117073238...@ng-fc1.aol.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Andy Erickson
explained you could flush your pen with a diluted ammoia solution. I don't
have the ratios with me, you may want to check the Pelikan web site.
Perhaps Parker has a web site, also.
As an aside, I've used Parker ink without problems in a couple of pens. In
fact, I really like the ink. I assume you already know that ink will
degenerate, slowly clumping up, after about a year of use, so I won't
suggest that old ink may be your problem.
I hope this helps.
Andrew Erickson
Randy
one that smells. I have tried Parker Pen Men ink. It's ok but I really
like how black and smooth Pelikin ink writes. Of coarse most ink likes are
probably personnel preferences.
My friend and fellow collector uses Pelikin and only his Aurora smells.
Since I alternated pens I use from the collection I use up ink fast enough
that a bottle doesn't last a year. Probably 4-6 months.
Randy
Randy wrote in message <72pe70$iop$1...@info3.fnal.gov>...
Randy
>>I heard once (from this board, I believe) that Pelikan black ink can go
bad
>>by
>>growing mold or something. That might explain the cause of the problem,
but
>>certainly provides no solution.
>
>I have posted many times that Pelikan has had many problems with their
black
>ink. Sooo, if one writes with crap--one should not be surprised to end
up
>with a pen that smells like crap. Sorry, that is to easy to resist.
...
>Such smells are often inbedded INTO the actual parts of the pen and may
take
>years to get rid of. Outside of a "cover up" smell of something else,
simply
>using GOOD (Yup--Sheaffer) ink may eventually get rid of the smell sometime
in
>the next century. Hhey--its not THAT far off, either. Frank
I haven't tried Sheaffer ink. What's in Sheaffer ink that you think it may
get rid of the smell?
Randy
jhh
>get rid of the smell?
>
>Randy
>
It is what isn't in Sheaffer ink that makes it so good--namely a bunch of trash.
I don't understand what people's fetish with very black inks is. The more black
that is in them, the thicker they are going to be, the faster they are going
to evaporate/ go bad. Visualize the ink and what it is like in your pen. The less
ink black, chemicals, etc.; the thinner the ink, the less harm it can do your pen(wet or dry)
and the easier it is going to flow. Not to mention the easier it is going to
flush. I like an ink that feels nice and thin for these and many other reasons.
I think Sheaffer really is the best ink you can get. I don't go much for all these
exotic, foreign inks--regardless of how "beautiful" they are or how many colors they
come in. I go less by what an ink looks like, and more by the way it works.
And for some reason, Sheaffer does clean up the inside of a pen. A couple years
ago I got a couple of fifty-ones that still had old ink in them from at least the
late 60's. One I flushed, and flushed, and flushed and finally when I was at my wits
end, put skrip in. I used it some with the skrip. I flushed it after a month or
so, put some more skrip, used it some, flushed. You get the pattern. Today,
that pen rinses clean and the sac is clear. The other, I have rinsed often, and
everytime that I rinse, I still get what I guess is old Parker ink that when diluted
by water turns a "beautiful" turquoise. If sheaffer can clean out the huge feed of
a 51 with 30 old ink dried in it, then I think it can be worth a shot for your pen.
I still think that 1/3 ammonia/ 2/3 cold water should do the trick. How are you flushing
your pen? Are you drawing water through with the filler, are you letting it
soak 12-24 hours? Are you putting the nib under running cold water tap? try all those
tricks to pull whatever is in their out. Also, try to get the inside completely dry.
Shake the pen out. I don't know how the duofold works, but on most pens I hold
the feeder bar down and shake the water out. I also blot with soft tissue. I wait
a few minutes and repeat these steps. I do this several times to make sure that
the pen is good and dry, so I don't get mildew. Finally, I am not generally a fan
of any inks but sheaffer's, but the blue-black ink which Pelikan supplies to A.T.
Cross is pretty nice. Thin, but doesn't seem as free of "trash" as sheaffer, but
pretty good. It seems like it has "grainy" undissolved or free floating ink black
in it, and the same is true of the black they give to Cross. I think they
make the ink in Cross rollers, but it is darker. Anyway, the ink in the Rollers
goes bad too fast. It also has a lot of metals and alkali in it, which you will
discover if you ever leave a cross roller around for a while-- corrosion all over
the tip. You just have to be careful with Pelikan inks. I have heard people say
things about Pelikans, and other inks, about how they "grow" mold and bacteria.
I hesitated to tell you this earlier when I e-Mailed you because I don't like to spread
rumors or pass along hearsay advice, but if Mr. Dubiel says so, then I would
be inclined to lend more credence to these stories. But, to get back to your
pen, I think you may have some kind of chemical reaction. If you put a funny Pelikan
ink in their, and they make some that would be REALLY bad to put in your pen
(like these artists inks, etc). the materials in your Parker might not take very well
to it. I don't know anything about the construction of the Duofold, but I do know
that it has some celluloid in it and some inks eat celluloid(superchrome?). Maybe
you have mixed inks, and those inks are eating at each other and making a stink.
It has been known to happen. Regardless, now that I have blathered on(if only you
hadn't started about Sheaffer ink) I'll just wish you good luck and move on.
jhh
//--------------------------------------------------------------
// Jared Haddon Hockema
// hoc...@ibm.net
jhh
>>
>Your pen has halitosis - gargle with an anti-bacteriostat -
>Listerine/Scope/Lavoris.
>
>
>
>Sheldon
I don't know that I would use anything that had alcohol in it, same goes for
peroxide or a glycol-based cleaner, although I haven't heard anything bad about
the latter two. I do know that alcohol can do bad stuff inside your pen, by reacting
and also that it can wreck washers and sacs, in addition to probably making your
pen really hard to "get wet" again.
Bernadette Landolf-Fritsche
people prefer vivid color to a washed out look. It's a personal
preference thing. And what's this about ink (even wet ink) damaging
pens? I haven't heard of or read any warnings other than those directed
at Parker Penman users who allow their pens to sit a long time between
uses. If one were to take your "junk" analysis a little further,
distilled water would be the ink of choice. It has even less "junk" in
it than Sheaffer's ink.
BLF
> jhh
>
> //--------------------------------------------------------------
> // Jared Haddon Hockema
> // hoc...@ibm.net
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
bl...@toad.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FDubiel
>get rid of the smell?
Nothing--it just doesn't stink in the first place. FD
FDubiel
>distilled water would be the ink of choice. It has even less "junk" in
>it than Sheaffer's ink.
this is getting weird since most folks just don't know much about inks and
dyes. I spent 20 years as a textile lab director on this subject. Sheafer uses
high speed centrifuges to seperate solid matter out of their filtered waterand
inks before it is bottled. I have many pictures of Sheaffer ink machinery from
the 50s and 60s and they tell me the process is unchanged today. Most other
companies, while they may filter the water (or may not) just mix the dyes and
gunk in and bottle it. Sheaffer also uses a "pre mix" to form a liquid
concentrated ink that itself is mixed with treated water--the two step process
also helps avoid solids in the final product. FD
FDubiel
>that a bottle doesn't last a year. Probably 4-6 months
It virtually impossible for Sheaffer ink to ever go bad in a lifetime unless
frozen, kept in strong light or in less than an air tight container. Sheaffer
ink 50 and more years old is every bit as fresh and good as that made yesterday
if stored properly. FD
Michael AuYeung
formulation. I could swear this would be a compound of iron and gallium... that'd probably
explain the particles. Doesn't sound like something I want in my pen, but that's in my honest
opinion...
Charles Lingard
Gallium; it relates to Oak galls or leaf galls which are excrecences on
trees or leaves, caused by certain insects, that are combined with
solutions of certain Iron salts to make ink. Oak galls contain Tannin.
Refer to this site, by Evan Lindquist, which describes some of the
chemistry of writing ink and how to make your own:
http://www.clt.astate.edu/elind/inkmain.htm
There is a treatise available from Project Gutenberg, entitled "40
Centuries of Ink" which will tell you more than you ever wanted to know
about the history of various types of writing ink.
Here is Project Gutenberg's main URL:
The Project Gutenberg E-text files are mirrored on various servers, so
they should be easy to access, once you find out where!
Hope This Helps
--
=============================
Charles Lingard
ca...@wave.net
PENMART10
>In <19981117071030...@ngol02.aol.com>, penm...@aol.com
>(PENMART10) writes:
>
>>>
>>Your pen has halitosis - gargle with an anti-bacteriostat -
>>Listerine/Scope/Lavoris.
>>
>>
>>
>>Sheldon
>
>I don't know that I would use anything that had alcohol in it, same goes for
>peroxide or a glycol-based cleaner, although I haven't heard anything bad
>about
>the latter two. I do know that alcohol can do bad stuff inside your pen, by
>reacting
>and also that it can wreck washers and sacs, in addition to probably making
>your pen really hard to "get wet" again.
>
>
>Jared Haddon Hockema
A *diluted* solution of scented antibacteriostat will not detrimentally affect
internal fountain pen components. As far as affecting wetting action, do like
the dental hygienist directs, rinse and spit - rinse and spit. BTW, for you
teetotalers, there are antibacteriostats that do not contain alcohol.
Bernadette Landolf-Fritsche
>
> this is getting weird since most folks just don't know much about inks and
> dyes. I spent 20 years as a textile lab director on this subject. Sheafer uses
> high speed centrifuges to seperate solid matter out of their filtered waterand
> inks before it is bottled. I have many pictures of Sheaffer ink machinery from
> the 50s and 60s and they tell me the process is unchanged today. Most other
> companies, while they may filter the water (or may not) just mix the dyes and
> gunk in and bottle it. Sheaffer also uses a "pre mix" to form a liquid
> concentrated ink that itself is mixed with treated water--the two step process
> also helps avoid solids in the final product. FD
How do you know that "most other companies...just mix the dyes and gunk
in and bottle it"? And even if that were true, does the mere fact that
your description sounds so bad actually mean those other inks are
really, truly bad? Do you really know how Aurora, Levenger, Delta,
Platinum, Dupont, Rotring, et al. manufacture their inks? If a person
practices good pen hygiene would any fountain pen ink cause damage? Do
additives (i.e., "gunk") always diminish the performance of a liquid
product? Are thin (pure, free-flowing) liquids always safer/less
caustic (or whatever) than slightly thicker liquids? Do you prefer
Coors Light to Becks Dark? :)
While most folks haven't spent 20 years as a textile lab director, many
of us are capable of reasoning ("weird" as that may seem to you). To my
way of thinking, what you say about how Sheaffer manufactures their ink
does not prove that the manufacturing practices of other companies (or
the resultant inks) are necessarily inferior. I think that when push
comes to shove what we're talking about here is personal preference and
pen collectors' lore, and there's nothing wrong with these if we accept
them as such.
Bernadette Fritsche
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
bl...@toad.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
jhh
>What exactly does "junk" refer to? Pigment? My guess is that some
>people prefer vivid color to a washed out look. It's a personal
>preference thing. And what's this about ink (even wet ink) damaging
>pens? I haven't heard of or read any warnings other than those directed
>at Parker Penman users who allow their pens to sit a long time between
>distilled water would be the ink of choice. It has even less "junk" in
>it than Sheaffer's ink.
It can be whatever the mfr. puts in their ink as ink black. I am not a chemist,
but I happen to know that some ingredients are better than others. I have always
found that sheaffer does the best job. As far as ink damaging your pen if you leave
it for a long time. Any ink will dry up and damage your pen. A lot of inks will
petrify rubber parts if they dry on them, and make them wear out. Some, inks, like
I said earlier, contain ingredients which over time react with the other ingredients to form
crystals. I am not just talking about dried ink, but some kind of trash that comes out
of these dried inks. I don't know what it is, common sense tells me that that sort of
stuff is bad. Good inks, like sheaffer, don't have this kind of stuff in them. I have
never seen old sheaffer ink make crystals, etc. And when it dries in a pen, it doesn't
do as much damage and is easier to clean out, than say , Mont Blanc(I was ranting
in an eMail about their ink to a fellow poster a couple of weeks ago). Also sheaffer
ink and other good inks, don't go bad as quickly. I don't know what makes them
not go bad, just like I don't know what makes the others go bad. I just know that
they do. Ask a chemist to analyze the inks if you want to know what makes them
do what they do, ask people who use the inks if you want to know how they
inks works year after year in pens. Obviously you have your opinions about inks,
and I have mine. I follow your analogy pretty closely, and I think that sheaffer is
about as close to distilled water as I can get, which to me is good.
Bernadette Landolf-Fritsche
> Obviously you have your opinions about inks, and I have
> mine. I follow your analogy pretty closely, and I think
> that sheaffer is about as close to distilled water as I
> can get, which to me is good.
My opinions (re: fountain pen inks) are not well set. I'm genuinely
interested in others' opinions about the subject. Personally, I like to
experiment with different inks in different pens and get a little scared
when I hear people talk about inks damaging pens. I don't want any of
my pens to be damaged by the inks I use. On the other hand, I don't
want to limit my choice of ink to one company's offerings. Someone
posted a question a week or two ago asking why a company (or companies)
operating in such a competitive market, would manufacture (and then
continue to manufacture) ink that ruins pens. I don't recall seeing a
reply. I think it's a good question, though, and one that was probably
genuinely posed.
BLF
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
bl...@toad.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quinkman
to India ink.
Tom Kim
my own problem (like my Parker Sonnet which only uses Penman Sapphire).
However, I haven't had any problems with the Herbin bleue-nuit nor the
Aurora blue that I favor, so I seem to be lucky there. Sheaffer ink is
decent color-wise, but I would never use their lavender in any of my pens.
Besides, any ink is safe if you don't leave it in the pen for long periods
of time and flush the pen out thoroughly.
As a reply to your point that why would a company manufacture ink that
ruins pens: Why does Mont Blanc continue using their "precious resin"
when they admit the stuff will crack after an average of 4 years? Same
principle: people will buy it, and the company will still make a profit.
I mean, every time my 144 develops another crack (and to those who accuse
me of maltreating my pens? It's the only pen I have to ever crack, and I
haven't even written with it in 8 years) I have to shell out another $25
to send it to the Mont Blanc service center, and then pay whatever the
parts cost. Same reasoning behind why Fiestaware still exists today!
Pretty, but ultimately dangerous. Well, that's not a good analogy,
because Penman isn't radioactive, that we know of...
--
--
Tom S. Kim
y...@lightlink.com
I am not a committee!
jrich...@my-dejanews.com
Michael AuYeung <auy...@usc.edu> wrote:
> Pelikan states in their advertising material that their blue-black ink has a
ferro-gallic
> formulation. I could swear this would be a compound of iron and gallium...
that'd probably
> explain the particles. Doesn't sound like something I want in my pen, but
that's in my honest
> opinion...
>
>
My translator is a little rusty but I think ferro-gallic refers to the head
of a frencman :)
jrich...@my-dejanews.com
Michael AuYeung <auy...@usc.edu> wrote:
> Pelikan states in their advertising material that their blue-black ink has a
ferro-gallic
> formulation. I could swear this would be a compound of iron and gallium...
that'd probably
> explain the particles. Doesn't sound like something I want in my pen, but
that's in my honest
> opinion...
>
>
My translator is a little rusty but I think ferro-gallic refers to the head
of a frenchman :)
wh...@my-dejanews.com
Michael AuYeung <auy...@usc.edu> wrote:
> Pelikan states in their advertising material that their blue-black ink has a
ferro-gallic
> formulation. I could swear this would be a compound of iron and gallium...
that'd probably
> explain the particles. Doesn't sound like something I want in my pen, but
that's in my honest
> opinion...
You're right about the iron part, but not the gallium, which is a metal that
is too rare and expensive even if it were a good ink ingredient.
And I believe what Pelikan is referring to is the fact that blue-black inks
(in general, not just Pelikan's) have an iron-gall component dissolved as a
SOLUTION, not a suspension of particles. The term "gallic" refers to gallic
acid. The iron is what gives blue-black its "permanent" character--after the
ink dries on the paper, the iron has come out of solution and oxidizes to
give a slightly brownish tint to the writing. That's why many old
manuscripts have a brownish/sepia tint to them, the iron component is what
has lasted, even after any dyes have faded away.
NO proper fountain pen ink I know of uses a suspension of particles to give
its color--that would make it a paint. Fountain pen inks are formulated as
solutions, and any particles in there shouldn't be.
--
Bill H. (wh...@my-dejanews.com; Bill...@alum.mit.edu; wh...@ida.org)
FDubiel
>in and bottle it"?
In most cases I DO know. And most companies do NOT even make their own ink but
have it come in from elsewhere. Even Parker does NOT make Penman ink. (They
do make Quink.) But the final fact is--many other inks have proven to cause
some sort of problems in the long hall. With ink production SO VERY TINY
today compared to what it was in the 50s---no company could set up the
multi-million dollar equipment Sheaffer uses, and, to be honest Sheaffer uses
it because they still have it, and the equipment is SO well built it appears to
have a unlimited lifetime. Parker tells me Quink is also still made on 50s
equipment, but now in England, so, to me, its not a proven fact since their
Janesville ink production wa phased out 10-20 yrs ago. Quink has always been
a strong "second place" ink next to the champ Sheaffer IMHO. Virtually all
other companies gunk up their ink with brightners and strong dyes for strong
colors--which look pretty, but any common sense should tell--strong colors will
stain and clog faster. Bottom line---it IS personal preference---I am ONLY
talking about what ink will NOT harm a pen--if a pen IS harmed over a decade or
so of use--so what--its your pen. ...and you are perfectly allowed to use it
like you want. But anyone saying ther are CERTAIN a non-Sheaffer ink (or
perhaps Quink) will NOT eventually harm their pen is like a chain smoker
saying they KNOW cigretts are totally harmless to one's health. On the other
hand--if you are a smoker, and know and accept the risks of smoking--thats
fine--and your personal preference. The same understandings should be applied
to inks. Frank
PENMART10
>Pelikan states in their advertising material that their blue-black ink has a
>ferro-gallic formulation. I could swear this would be a compound of iron and
>gallium... that'd probably explain the particles. Doesn't sound like something
>I want in my pen, but that's in my honest opinion...
Honesty is no recommendation, one way or another, as to the validity of one's
opinion(s). Opinions, to have any validity, need to be supported with
corroborative evidence, especially if one intends to swear/attest to same,
otherwise, such swearing is generally indicative of opinion couched in
bullshit. Now, ink(s), when injected with bullshit will in fact cause
malfunctioning pens.
"Mirriam Webster New Collegiate Dictionary"
gal*lic acid (noun)
[French gallique, from galle gall]
First appeared 1791
: a white crystalline acid found widely in plants or combined in tannins and
used esp. in dyes and as a photographic developer
- - - - - -
gal*li*um (noun)
[New Latin, from Latin gallus cock (intended as translation of surname of Paul
Lecoq de Boisbaudran died 1912 French chemist)]
First appeared 1875
: a rare bluish white metallic element that is hard and brittle at low
temperatures but melts just above room temperature and expands on freezing
PENMART10
In article <19981120073954...@ng136.aol.com>, fdu...@aol.com
(FDubiel) writes:
>But anyone saying ther are CERTAIN a non-Sheaffer ink (or
>perhaps Quink) will NOT eventually harm their pen is like a chain smoker
>saying they KNOW cigretts are totally harmless to one's health. On the other
>hand--if you are a smoker, and know and accept the risks of smoking--thats
>fine--and your personal preference. The same understandings should be
>applied to inks. Frank
That explains everything... Frank's been inhaling Penman ink!!! LOL
Jeffrey A. Bourque
I agree with you about Sheaffer ink. I use it almost exclusively. I
have Sheaffer black loaded in my McLaren pen right now, and it is very
black. However, I cracked open a bottle of Sheaffer blue (brand new as
I took it off the shelf from Signature), and you know what, it had a
waterman's like smell, but nowhere near as strong. So I cracked open a
new one, and it smelt as well. Same blue, don't see any difference, so
I went ahead and used it. No problems, as I have been using it for 2
months and my nib does not smell, and the bottle is less intense than
when I opened it.
Just an observation. Hopefully this was not a bad shipment of blue, as
my brand new bottle of Sheaffer (with the new Skrip label on it) has no
odor whatsoever.
Regards,
Jeff
--
Jeffrey A. Bourque, CBC
President
Hemsing Advertising, Inc. & Signature by Hemsing
755 W. Big Beaver Road
Suite 1120
Troy, MI 48084
USA
Tel: 248-362-0448
Fax: 248-362-3884
E-Mail: ad...@mindspring.com
URL: http://www.hemsingad.com for Hemsing Advertising, Inc. or
http://www.signatureonline.com for Signature Online
Greg Clark
<I> get a little scared when I hear people talk about inks damaging pens. I
don't want any of
>my pens to be damaged by the inks I use
< Someone posted a question a week or two ago asking why a company (or
companies)
>operating in such a competitive market, would manufacture (and then
>continue to manufacture) ink that ruins pens.
To the best of my knowledge ( and I do spend a bit of time studying inks) no
ink since Parker's" 51" brand of ink will do any damage to a pen other than
possibly staining transparent or light colored parts.
BTW -Jerry Trafford - the pen repair wiz from Omas - sent me a badly stained
Bibliotech, which is white, and I was able to remove all traces of purple
stain from it without damaging the pen.
Greg
FDubiel
>ink since Parker's" 51" brand of ink will do any damage to a pen other than
>possibly staining transparent or light colored parts.
>
>BTW -Jerry Trafford - the pen repair wiz from Omas - sent me a badly stained
>Bibliotech, which is white, and I was able to remove all traces of purple
>stain from it without damaging the pen.
>
>
Actually 51 ink and Superchrome ink also done no damage beyond clogs, stains
and forming crystals. The Omas pen is quite new with therefore limited
use--suppose it had been used 20-30 years with that purple ink?? Ffood for
thought?? FD
Bernadette Landolf-Fritsche
I've heard lots of bad things about MB's precious resin (what makes it
precious, anyway? The fact that people are willing to pay lots of money
for it? I'm serious. I really don't know what they mean by
"precious."). I've never been a real MB fan. I can't help believing
that the poor performance of their products is going to catch up with
them someday. MB is a tad on the pricey side and there are some awfully
good manufacturers in that price range (e.g., Pelikan, Aurora, etc.).
People might get burned by MB once, but they won't repeat their
mistake. Bet you'll never buy another pen from them. As far as inks
go, I simply can't accept the notion that Sheaffer is the only company
in the world that produces ink that won't harm pens. I'm with you,
though: I'm going to continue to experiment with inks and have an awful
lot of fun doing it, and I'm not going to worry myself sick (and I think
needlessly) about damaging my pens.
Take care,
Bernadette
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
bl...@toad.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bernadette Landolf-Fritsche
>
> But anyone saying ther are CERTAIN a non-Sheaffer ink (or
> perhaps Quink) will NOT eventually harm their pen is like
> a chain smoker saying they KNOW cigretts are totally harmless
> to one's health. On the other hand--if you are a smoker,
> and know and accept the risks of smoking--thats fine--and
> your personal preference. The same understandings should be
> applied to inks. Frank
Frank,
I never said I was "certain" of anything. I simply find it hard to
believe that Sheaffer is the only company in the world that
manufacturers ink that won't harm pens. In addition, as someone who's
published research in scientific, peer-reviewed journals, I know the
difference between a body of compelling empirical evidence and opinions
(even strongly stated ones). Therefore, I do not use tobacco products,
but I will continue to play around with fountain pen inks and not worry
myself sick about damaging my pens.
Haim Toeg
I have been using penman for years with no problem. Works excellent,
and with no damage on 51's, 75's, Duofolds.
FDubiel
>Frank,
>
>I never said I was "certain" of anything. I simply find it hard to
>believe that Sheaffer is the only company in the world that
>manufacturers ink that won't harm pens. In addition, as someone who's
>published research in scientific, peer-reviewed journals, I know the
>difference between a body of compelling empirical evidence and opinions
>(even strongly stated ones). Therefore, I do not use tobacco products,
>but I will continue to play around with fountain pen inks and not worry
>myself sick about damaging my pens.
AGREED! Its nothing most folks should worry about. But then--why ask the
qiuestion in the first place if you then state you aren't going to worry about
it? Its a minor problem compared to the rest of the world and a non staining
ink isn't going to bring peace to the Middle East and I doubt Penman,
Superchrome or 51 inks ever killed anyone. Frank
Bernadette Landolf-Fritsche
earlier posts contained very strong, attention-grabbing statements about
certain inks causing damage to pens, and I simply asked what kind of
evidence there was to support such strong statements. At that point, I
was willing to modify my ink-buying habits. Now, after reading a whole
slew of responses (many of which I found exceptionally informative), I'm
not convinced that those original statements were based on anything
other than opinion/personal preference/pen collectors' lore, and,
therefore, I'm not going to worry about ink damaging my pens.
In summary, this horse is not merely dead, it's really most sincerely
dead. Let's stop beating it.
BLF
FDubiel wrote:
>
> AGREED! Its nothing most folks should worry about. But then--why ask the
> qiuestion in the first place if you then state you aren't going to worry about
> it? Its a minor problem compared to the rest of the world and a non staining
> ink isn't going to bring peace to the Middle East and I doubt Penman,
> Superchrome or 51 inks ever killed anyone. Frank
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
bl...@toad.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quinkman
"dyed in the wool" fountain pen users, myself amoung them.
The concluions drawn from scientific have changed many times through the years
as new evidence has arisin: with inks, well it's fairly simple chemistry which
hasn't changed a whole lot and fifty years of hands/eyes on experience and the
feed back of much of the fountain pen community should represent more than
just "an opinion" doncha think Bernadette.
Bob
j-la...@neiu.edu
>the dental hygienist directs, rinse and spit - rinse and spit. BTW, for you
>teetotalers, there are antibacteriostats that do not contain alcohol.
>Sheldon
...........................
Oh, NOW you tell me! My poor pen has been staggering all day!
j-la...@neiu.edu
>Frank's opinion is based on many years of experience, his and those of other
>"dyed in the wool" fountain pen users, myself amoung them.
He plays with dead sheep?
I KNEW there was something kinky going on!!!
;-Q
PelikanDRP
In article <36512093...@usc.edu>, Michael AuYeung <auy...@usc.edu>
writes:
>I heard once (from this board, I believe) that Pelikan black ink can go bad
>by growing mold or something.
Pelikan had a bad batch of Brilliant Black ink *years ago* that contained a
little sediment, but other than that, it's very widly used and trusted. I've
never had a problem with Pelikan 4001 inks in fourteen years.
Paul
---
"Minds and fountain pens will work when willed,
but minds, like fountain pens, must first be filled"
Bernadette Landolf-Fritsche
post, for example), I can't help thinking that what they're disagreeing
about is not well established fact. Can ya handle that, Bob?
Bernadette
Quinkman wrote:
>
> Frank's opinion is based on many years of experience, his and those of other
> "dyed in the wool" fountain pen users, myself amoung them.
>
> The concluions drawn from scientific have changed many times through the years
> as new evidence has arisin: with inks, well it's fairly simple chemistry which
> hasn't changed a whole lot and fifty years of hands/eyes on experience and the
> feed back of much of the fountain pen community should represent more than
> just "an opinion" doncha think Bernadette.
>
> Bob
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
bl...@toad.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FDubiel
>about is not well established fact. Can ya handle that, Bob?
How many things in this world is there total agreement on??? It seems
this poster has mentioned the ink issue is a dead horse and we should drop it.
yet she continues to ask for more? Veddy In-terr-esting, as Sgt Sultz used to
say. LOL Frank
rick en eefke
times to use the regular Sheaffer blue ink in my duofold but after a short time
the pen simply refuses. The pen does not react like this when it is filled with
parker or waterman ink. What's going on?
Rick van Coevorden
Waco Johnny D
and/or converter you're using it in. I usually don't have problems with Sheaffer
in the really heavy-flowing pens. I've never had a problem with it in pens with
ebonite feeds. I frequently have problems with it in pens that are already stingy
with ink flow, and they've all been modern ones with plastic feeds. I have a
Mandarin LE, an early-'90s Duofold, and two Sonnets, and none will feed Sheaffer
w/o an additive. Nor will my new Sheaffer Balance pens! Nevertheless, I use and
am very happy with Sheaffer in tons of other pens. Its watery nature becomes less
of a "color-saturation liability" in pens with relatively-archaic feeds because
those pens tend to flow heavily. I value it most in the really old pens because of
all inks available today I consider it one of the least-likely to damage something,
especially if a leak develops; with a nice old jade Duofold I'd rather have an
accident with Sheaffer than with any other ink.
Sheaffer ink IS very good. But for low surface tension (good wetting) you HAVE to
have a good match between the solid object (the feed) and the liquid (the ink) --
this is of utmost importance in modern pens with their plastic feeds and
extremely-tight tolerances. Sheaffer will not provide that in all cases. That
doesn't make it bad ink, just a bad match for a particular pen.
Is your Duofold a newer one, I mean from the post-51 era, as opposed to one from
the '20s to '40s? I would be surprised if Sheaffer did NOT work fine in the early
ones.
WJD
john cline ii
What ink do you recommend for modern pens with plastic feeds?
john cline ii who is curious....
Bruce Herbitter
great value at about 4.00 a bottle. 1/2 the price of the ones in the fancy
bottles with built in pen rests. Sheaffer does have a neat fill well at the
top f it's bottles though Office Max carries the Blue and the Black.
Pendemonium.com carries the full line of colors, and they will mail you a
sample card if you like.
Bruce
Waco Johnny D
> What ink do you recommend for modern pens with plastic feeds?
I like to start at the "gusher" end of the scale and work backwards, so
I usually begin with Waterman, which I find has a nice combination of
ability to flow and decent color saturation. I've never run across an
ink that flows as well as Waterman Havana but rumor has it it's been
discontinued. Havana floods in most of my 52s and 55s runs heavy in
almost everything made up through maybe the mid '40s except my 51s. It
fills about a quarter of the comb in most of my newer Pelikans.
Waterman blue doesn't flood anything I have but still runs a pretty
heavy line.
I find Pelikan blue and Omas black and Penman sapphire and emerald are
in the middle somewhere; they work in everything but just barely in the
newer pens I mentioned in an earlier post, however n.b. Frank's warnings
re. frequent Omas formula changes. I don't use Penman in piston fillers
because, as Frank aptly put it, it appears to be liquid gunk and, trust
me, it will leave a dried line of said gunk at the point where the
piston seal is "parked" in the cylinder. It can also glue a piston's
seal to the cylinder wall, as it's done often with a Pelikan 200 of
mine, even after the pen has been thoroughly flushed and left to dry. I
am not slamming the stuff -- I'm just saying that there are pens for
which the stuff wasn't designed, just as Harley 50-weight oil is
fantastic stuff in its proper place and application but dump it in your
Honda Accord and the motor soon will convert itself into a self-milling
machine.
Anyway, to answer the question, I have always been an enormous fan of
Waterman ink in new pens. It's never, ever let me down, it flows great,
the color is rich, not as rich as Penman but then again you don't need
twenty men with pick and shovel and an EPA permit to rid your pen of the
stuff. I wouldn't shed a tear if every other ink disappeared off the
face of the earth. I'll take heavy flow over light anytime.
<digression>
Frank said that Sheaffer should run ok in any pen whose nib and feed are
adjusted properly. I agree with that, with the assumption that the feed
has been properly-designed and properly-manufactured. Back in the '20s
and before, we had feeds that were pretty archaic and lots of times you
got lots of ink whether or not you wanted it, e.g. when you sneezed
while holding your Senior Lifetime and peppered your work with little
dots, or when you bumped your pen against something, or when your pen
slipped from your hand onto the desk. (Oh, okay, it wasn't that bad,
but I'm not that far off.) Now the pendulum has swung the other way and
I'm hearing more and more complaints about poor feeding in new pens,
specifically in the cases of two of the "Big Four." I think it'd be a
great lesson for the pen manufacturers to shut down their 3D
feed-modeling software, injection molders, and plastic-coating machines
and take a good long look at those great old Vac feeds and nibs. Those
old boys really hit the sweet spot. We still get a taste of it in the
stuff from Bexley and Omas and Stipula and Pelikan. If all the
manufacturers did their part regarding design, material preparation,
assembly, and inspection and test, we'd be able to use Sheaffer in every
pen today and not have to worry about ink-to-feed surface tension
because ANY modern ink would actually be able to find its way into the
feed comb and into the nib slit and onto the paper (what a concept!).
You manufacturers hearing me okay or should we just give up on you all
and start buying those Diplomats at Staples instead?
<end digression>
WJD
FDubiel
Sheaffer ink will perform as good as any ink in most pens--if SOME pens seem to
have problems with it--the problem is almost always in the pen, not the ink.
An example would be a pen with poor flow that needs an intense ink, like
Penman, to make an acceptable line density. Penman, and some other inks also
contain far more wetting agents than Sheaffer. Intense inks need the
additional wetting agents to make their gunk flow. Any pen with proper ink
flow, that is, nib and feed adjusted properly, should have no problems with
Sheaffer inks. FD
rick en eefke
waterman. It does not work with sheaffer and pelikan. Sheaffer ink does very well with
my Conway Stewart with a broad nib.
Rick van Coevorden
Mark Addison
brown ink on the market. Can anyone confirm or deny the rumour??
Mark
john cline ii
Mark Addison wrote in message <738su4$8uv$1...@the-fly.zip.com.au>...
>No, dear God, please don't let Waterman discontinue the Havana! Best darn
>brown ink on the market. Can anyone confirm or deny the rumour??
Alas, it is gone! Perhaps you can still find some somewhere.
Perhaps we could start a write in campaign to Gillette/Waterman!
john cline ii who every supplier has told, sorry, it is gone!
jhh
>While most folks haven't spent 20 years as a textile lab director, many
>of us are capable of reasoning ("weird" as that may seem to you). To my
>way of thinking, what you say about how Sheaffer manufactures their ink
>does not prove that the manufacturing practices of other companies (or
>the resultant inks) are necessarily inferior. I think that when push
>comes to shove what we're talking about here is personal preference and
>pen collectors' lore, and there's nothing wrong with these if we accept
>them as such.
>
>Bernadette Fritsche
Bernadette,
There isn't anything wrong with thinking critically, or trying to debunk myths.
The problem here is that you are conflating myth with hypothesis. The statements
that I have made about Sheaffer and other inks, and the statements that others
have made about these inks are not baseless conjecture or hearsay, they
are hypotheses that are supported by years of careful observation. I think that
any reasonable person could say that an ink with solid suspended in it would be
bad for your pen. Likewise, I think that a thinner(and not necessarily more free flowing)
ink could reasonably be expected to cause less damage to a pen if dried or coagulated
in its "innards." After all, it is the ingredients of an ink that can damage a pen
when they dry inside it. To me, it follows that the greater the proportion of these
solids to the volume of the ink, the greater chance that it could cause damage to
a pen. It also seems like any ingredients that aren't water soluble(and there
are inks with ingredients that are "suspended" in the water) would be more difficult
to wash out of a pen. Just visualize an oily ink versus a watery ink, or a pure
ink versus one with solids suspended in it. It should be obvious that one is less
apt to cause damage than the other. Think about an engine, is it better to run filtered
or unfiltered fuel through your injectors/carburetor? Why not put diesel in a gasoline
engine? I could think of a few reasons. True, putting say, Penman ink in your
fountain pen won't gum up your pen like diesel in a gasoline engine, but it isn't
like putting unleaded in there either. And it does matter what an ink is made out of.
Skrip is more chemically "neutral" than a lot of other inks. I didn't realize until
Mr. Au-Yeng's post that Pelikan in was really Iron Gall ink. Iron gall ink is what
they used to use befor they invented aniline inks(like skrip). Part of the reason
we have gold nibs is because Iron Gall ink is highly corrosive. It contains particles
of iron. You can actually determine the age of a document written with Iron gall
ink by looking at how far apart the iron particles have moved. Go buy a cross roller,
leave it uncapped for a year, and go look at it. It will be corroded to hell. Guess what,
it contains Pelikan 4001. Pelikan is, as Cross says, " a high quality ink." Fine.
It isn't like putting hydrochloric acid in your pen, but it isn't like putting
skrip. One ink is safer than the other. That doesn't mean that one is terribly
dangerous. It just means that one is safer than the other. Your car will probably run fine
if you put ethanol or gasoline in it. It is better for the car to use gasoline, or
at least, as little ethanol as possible. Ethanol, like some inks, isn't necessarily
*bad*, but your seals will wear out sooner, etc. You get the point.
jhh
//--------------------------------------------------------------
// Jared Haddon Hockema
// hoc...@ibm.net
May aquarius
> Anyone have any constructive input to this problem? My Parker Duofold
> Centennial has started to smell like a sour dish rag? I have a friend who
> has an fountain pen that has done the same thing. He tried flushing,
> leaving it air out and ammonia. I have tried flushing, airing out all night
> and peroxide. We both use Pelikin black ink. I have numerous other pens
> and have not had this problem in any other pen.
我也遇到了你碰到的问题。我认为，不是墨水的问题，是钢笔自身的问题，它能使任何墨水都闻起来像放在潮湿的阴暗角落里的好几天的湿抹布的味道，让人反感！。
我用的是奥罗拉钢笔，我尝试了换墨水、清水清洗、阳光暴晒、洗手液清洗等等，统统无效，这让我怀疑笔尖里的笔舌的设计问题可能是异味产生的原因，它设计的太密集排布了。
你的问题最终解决了吗？