Graduation pen for future lawyer . . .
dau...@gmail.com
student? I tend to like the gel type ink in the Pilot G2. I found this
group via my night's research into personal productivity, and like the
notion of the sorts of pen that could accept the G2 refill, but I am
naturally not tied to that. I've noticed several lawyers using Mont
Blancs, but as I'm not sure what range of quality pens are out there,
I'm not sure where to start. I've thought about the Cross ATX, but
that's based on web searching only.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
Ben Wilson
bill7tx
for as little as $45)
or
Rotring 600 ballpoint pen, matte silver - takes Parker style ballpoint
or gel refills ($37 msrp, can be found for as little as $25)
Blue ink is preferred by lawyers (so you can tell the difference
between the original and the photocopy). I recommend Noodler's Legal
Lapis for the fountain pen (it chemically bonds with the paper and
can't be removed without physically destroying the paper, plus it's
light-proof). My guess is that a lawyer would prefer the ballpoint to
the gel refill, since gel inks are generally water-soluble,
slow-drying, and prone to smear.
Save the Mont Blanc for a more significant event than graduating law
school. Your recipient still has to pass the bar exam, get the first
job, get promotion out of the New Lawyer pool, etc. Both of the pens
I've suggested are striking in appearance, comfortable to use, and
built to stand up to a lot of use. The Rotring 600 is also getting
harder and harder to find, so it will have the distinction of being
unusual. The Pelikan has a band of the lawyer's favorite color (same
shade of green as old US currency). Both of these communicate a
professional, do-not-mess-with-me image, but in a refined, genteel way
(in my opinion).
Congratulations to your graduate!
Dick
Unless you know that he/she likes fountain pens, a roller-ball is a
safer bet. They write nearly as smoothly as fountain pens and require
less attention. They are available in virtually any price range and
the price doesn't generally affect the writing quality since it's the
refill that does the writing. Higher price will get you a nicer
looking pen.
While blue is generally a good ink color choice so that signatures on
originals can be identified, a change of refill gives the user the
color of choice. While some of the special fountain pen inks are very
permanent, the only attorneys that I've run into in my 37 years of
practice that pay much attention to such things are those of us that
are "into" pens. Most documents don't require archival ink and most
attorneys wouldn't know where to find it.
If it's a fountain pen that you're after, you might want to look at
the Namiki/Pilot Vanishing Point pens. They are fountain pens which
have a retractable nib unit that extends and retracts at the push of a
button as on a ball-point. They are quality pens well respected by us
pen "nuts" and not merely a gimmick as they might at first appear.
They use regular fountain pen ink from cartridges or from a bottle by
means of a converter which is included. Very handy when you're on the
go and don't want to fool with the cap of a regular fountain pen.
I own three Mont Blanc pens and am very happy with all of them. Many
pen "nuts" feel that they are overpriced and that may be the case, but
mine are very reliable and are among the pens I most enjoy using. If
you're considering one, you should consider whether the new lawyer
will be comfortable with a pen considered by many as a status symbol.
That image could make some uncomfortable and less likely to use the
pen since its identity is so obvious.
Good luck to your graduate. I've sometimes shared the following quote
regarding precision in writing with young lawyers. Perhaps it will be
of interest to him/her and if not, only a few electrons have been
wasted.;-)
Justice Stephen in "In re Castionio", 1 Q.B. 167-168 (1890) said:
"...It is not enough to attain to a degree of precision which a person
reading in good faith can understand; but it is necessary to attain if
possible to a degree of precision which a person reading in bad faith
cannot misunderstand. It is all the better if he cannot pretend to
misunderstand it."
Dick
Sally Waters
see pens that our grads have been given as
gifts (since they know that I'm also the lady with all the bottled ink that
they can use if needed!) My advice would be
to skip the Mont Blanc - the grads I know who've received them tend to see
them as a status symbol, not as a real
writing instrument (I know one who made it a point to carry the MB in his
suit pocket for show -- and then use a G-2
to actually write with.) Of the two grads that I know of who've absolutely
loved - to the point of becoming pen
enthusiasts - the pens they got as gifts, one received a Pelikan fountain
pen, the other an Aurora. Don't know the exact
model numbers, but in each case the pens looked distinctive, they wrote
really well, and the mix of form and function
made for a great gift.
Sally, Law Liberry Lady....
<dau...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1136521135.6...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Serge Dasara
Hi Ben,
Well, I've been a lawyer for decades - I'm old enough that I learned
to write with a dip-pen in grade school, went on to fountain pens and
never stopped. Though you don't actually say so, I presume that you
are asking about fountain pens.
Though I have many fountain pens, my top three are a 30-year old
Montblanc, a Lamy 2000 and a Pelikan 605, all with nibs ground to
italic cursive. The Lamy is not at all garish, affordable and a
piston-fill - an all-around good choice, IMO.
And I've never met a lawyer who uses black in his fountain pen; I
certainly don't, adorning my correspondance and pleadings with such
colors as: Herbin's Violette Pensée, PR Naples Blue and Tanzanite and
Diamine Royal blue.
--
Cordially,
Serge Dasara
1/6/2006 10:12:12 AM
Bluesea
Welcome to the group!
It's my understanding that the Pilot G2 refills won't fit the current Cross
pens, only the older ones.
It's also my understanding that Waterman rollerballs *do* accept the G2
refills, so a pen like that would give both rollerball and gel ink options
for the same pen.
If the graduate is female, the Waterman Ici Et La is supposed to accept both
Waterman ballpoint and rollerball refills...which means that the G2 should
also fit.
Personally, I prefer fountain pens and if the graduate is open to using
them, I recommend any Cross (Cross nibs are made by Namiki and Pelikan), the
Parker Sonnet (very comfortable), any Namiki/Pilot including the (very
convenient) Vanishing Point, any Pelikan, and any Waterman that fits your
price range.
--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.
Andy Dingley
>What would be a good quality daily use pen for a graduating law
>student?
Don't try to give people "daily use" pens unless they've made it plain
what they want. Pens are a very personal choice - if they already hae a
preference, then even a good pen is likely to be ignored in favour of
it. I certainly will never use anything with a metal body and if it's
too thin then I wouldn't even be able to hold it.
Give nearly any person a fountain pen and they're just going to ignore
it. Maybe they're missing out, but fountain pen users are pretty few and
far between these days and you're unlikely to convert them just by
giving them a nice one.
That said, as few people really use pens for very long these days
anyway, then their precise suitability is less important. If it's just
something that's used for signatures, then anyone will be happy with an
impressive fountain pen, even if they'd never consider writing a whole
page with it.
I hate to say it, but the best commemorative gift is perhaps the Mont
Blanc. They're not a pen for writing with (they're overpriced and poorly
made) but they have iconic status as a posession and the white start cap
makes them easy to spot across a desk. If you're going to give a pen,
and you know it's not really going to be used, then it's not a bad gift.
OTOH, the number of fake MBs around these days makes them about as
devalued as a Rolex or TAG-Heuer watch.
As to modern pen brands for writing with, then I'd go with a Pelikan.
They're excellent pens, and they have good ink capacity. They also offer
a good range of models to suit most budgets, and even the cheapest are
still well-made and good writers.
I wouldn't recommend a new Parker 51, despite them being my own
favourite pen. Get an old one from eBay if you have to - they're nicer
styled and sometimes better constructed than the modern versions.
Pre-war Parker Duofolds might be nice too, if the recipient has a
fondness for Art Deco styling and some of the more lurid colour
combinations they offered.
Bruce Herbitter
With a roller ball pen, the quality of writing depends on the refill,
not the case it resides in. I have heard good and bad about MB refills.
Generally good reviews for Schmidt products, which are used with
Pelikan, Parker, and maybe some others. If you like the G2, look at
other Pilot/Namiki offerings. Someone makes a roller ball that can
filled with fountain pen ink. (Who is that?, someone help me please)
Cuz
Juhapekka Tolvanen
Bruce Herbitter <bherb...@chartermi.net> writes:
> Someone makes a roller ball that can filled with fountain pen ink.
> (Who is that?, someone help me please)
At least Herlitz Tornado and some pens of Kaweco are available as such pen.
--
Juhapekka "naula" Tolvanen * http colon slash slash iki dot fi slash juhtolv
"She turns me on. She makes me real. I have to apologize for the way I feel."
Nine Inch Nails
Juan
A future lawyer? Just avoid black ink. Now seriously, any Pelikan will
be a good choice. Others: Aurora Optima, Omas, Delta...
Juan in Andalucía
so what
>
> Sally, Law Liberry Lady....
Please tell me they do NOT say "liberry"!
I am sure they don't say "irregardless". Nobody really says that. No.
Never.
ACCCKKKK~~~!!!!!!
bill7tx
cartridges. It is still in production. There is (or was) a
Faber-Castell pen that had a roller refill filled with fountain pen
ink, but you have to replace the entire refill. Sorry to say I don't
know the pen model -- I have one but it isn't marked anywhere on the
pen, and I haven't seen one for sale anywhere in a long time. Levenger
also had a roller ball that used fountain pen cartridges, but I believe
this pen has been discontinued.
bill7tx
You may be thinking about the Pelikan Roller, which uses fountain pen
cartridges. Other pens like this have been offered by Faber-Castell and
by Levenger, but these are no longer manufactured. Might be able to
find them on eBay or at one of the pen dealers online.
bill7tx
style fountain pen cartridges. Other brands that once had roller ball
pens that use fountain pen ink include Faber-Castell and Levenger.
Faber-Castell still offers a roller ball refill that is filled with
fountain pen ink -- it's wonderful, but pricey (as much as $4 per
refill, or as little as $2.50, depending on where you buy them).
bill7tx
bill7tx
dau...@gmail.com
graduate. Sorry I was not. :-/ I'm trying to determine what pen serves
a dual capacity of daily legal use, but is also suitable for a
graduation gift. Thank you for your answers. I'll shy away from Mont
Blanc. Right now I tend to use the Uni-ball Vision Elite with
blue-black ink.
I happened upon this group because of the G2 ink in different pens
discussions. I like the G2 ink, but not the pen itself. So, I thought
at first that as an option--a ball point that would take G2s.
However, I like the idea of fountain pens, but since my experience has
been limited to the disposable sort one can pick up just about
anywhere. I liked the pen, but did not like the ink output--it tended
to leave globs of ink behind. Also, I'm not sure (I suppose I should
google this group) if fountain pens are airline friendly as I may be
travelling a bit.
You all gave me a good idea of where to start next. I appreciate your
input.
Ben
so what
There is another fountain pen board...www.pentrace.com, where you will
be able to get some feedback on your questions regarding FPs. There
are many attorneys in this hobby, so you would be among friends.
What you want is a pen that is comfortable in YOUR hand. Me, I like
large pens, even though some people think small pens are "made for
women". A friend of mine is a retired AP, now in private practice. He
likes huge pens, and those are the pens he uses on a daily basis. He
also doesn't use black ink very often:-).
Have fun, Barrister! And come by Pentrace!
satrap
bill7tx
or completely empty. If you fly with it full, do not use it in flight.
Changes in cabin air pressure have disastrous effects on many fountain
pens. A few fountain pens claim to be "OK for air travel", but unless
you want to risk arriving somewhere with a lot of ink on your fingers
(or on your shirt), I'd advise against it.
Maybe ditto for the roller ball pens that use fountain pen ink.
So it looks to me as if you will want to look at ballpoint pens or at
roller ball pens that use regular refills. I still don't think gel ink
is so hot -- it smears and all of it that I've seen is highly
water-soluble. In ballpoint pens, I tend to like Parkers and find their
refills to be reliable and smooth-writing, as well as being easily
available world-wide. The Frontier Flighter ballpen is distinctive,
well-made, and about $20 at Pendemonium. The Pelikan Softtouch
ballpoint is a very sophisticated pen, sturdy enough to stand up to
lots of use, large and easy to hold onto for hours of writing, and it
uses Parker refills, including gel refills if you really like gel ink
in spite of its drawbacks. Cheap, too -- about $12. Finally, the
Rotring Trio Multi-Function writing instruments offer ballpoint pen,
pencil and highlighter right at hand, all in one single unit. Takes
Rotring refills (easier to order from vendors on the Web than to find
in stores), price is $25 to $45 depending on which one you like.
Rotrings are built like tanks and last for years, maybe centuries.
For rollerball pens, I'd still recommend the Pelikan Roller.
Hope this helps!
phk
In article <1136900795....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
dau...@gmail.com wrote:
>However, I like the idea of fountain pens, but since my experience has
>been limited to the disposable sort one can pick up just about
>anywhere. I liked the pen, but did not like the ink output--it tended
>to leave globs of ink behind. [snip]
a good FP does not leave globs of ink behind.
>google this group) if fountain pens are airline friendly [snip]
maybe i'm just lucky. they never leaked for me.
like someone else, i think Namiki VP is a good beginner pen. it's smooth &
convenient (if you don't like the clip position). also not too expensive
for ball point, i used to like Cross. they look very slick. refills come in 3
types (i think) : ball point or roller ball or felt tip.
however, after i "graduated" to FPs, i stopped using them. cause the choices
of ink is too limited (i became very fond of exotic colors). also i got tired
of buying refills. i got 3 of those in different metals. they're just
collecting dusts. YMMV. :-)
==========
Pam @ Home
Cort Furniture Rental and Honesty are two exclusive concepts.
meammrmustard
For a future lawyer?
There's only one answer. The "poison pen".
Get them when they're small (or in this case, before they enter practice!)
--meanmrmustard
Paul K
Well, I've now just experimented over the past two weeks (six flights). I
brought along a Conway Stewart "Dinkie" (journaling pen) in my briefcase and
a Pelikan 400 (piston-feeder). No issues at all. In fact, there was a
positive: the CS has been somewhat of a slow starter (about 10 seconds or
so before ink flows to nib); however, not the case when climbing off the
plane (awaiting a connection) -- started right up with no(!) leakage or "nib
creep". It was the same upon my arrival at my destination: no issues.
However, all that said, I just purchased a Danitro Ebonite eye dropper
filler (for folks interested in the pen, go to the Fountain Pen Network and
read the pen review by "Noble Savage"). This pen has a "on/off" mechanism
(user has to turn the barel cap to start the ink flow, the reverse to stop
the flow of ink to the nib). Very simple device: it has a stem inside the
barrel that presses into feed which stops any ink from entering the nib. A
graphic of this system can also be seen on the FPN posting I referred
earlier.
If I may add, this pen is "no-nonsense" -- constructed of Ebonite, not
polished (although I can see it obtaining a 'natural' sheen from repeated
use). I am somewhat conservative and can see that it will not attract any
attention when I write (other than the uniqueness of it being a fountain
pen). I find this to be a good thing in the business world where in most
cases some 'modesty' is certainly nessary. I would, again, recommend those
interested read the review (also know of a subsequent review by another FPN
member).
My best to all,
Paul
bill7tx
was based on sad experience. Some flights I had no trouble with
fountain pens. Just enough led to ink-stained shirts or great blobs of
ink on the paper I was writing on, to make me decide to stick to
ballpoints or rollerballs in the air. That Danitro sounds interesting
though.
Bill
Bruce Herbitter
> I started a post about a month ago regarding airplane safe fountain pens.
> Well, I've now just experimented over the past two weeks (six flights). I
> brought along a Conway Stewart "Dinkie" (journaling pen) in my briefcase and
> a Pelikan 400 (piston-feeder). No issues at all.
I did a lot of flying for business over a period of several years. My FP
experience: Piston fillers and C/C pens were never a problem. Parker
Vacs and any kind of sac filled pen (Lever, TD, snork) was prone to
leak. Parker 51 Aerometrics, and Sheaffer rod vacs were safe to carry.
> However, all that said, I just purchased a Danitro Ebonite eye dropper
> filler (for folks interested in the pen, go to the Fountain Pen Network and
> read the pen review by "Noble Savage"). This pen has a "on/off" mechanism
> (user has to turn the barel cap to start the ink flow, the reverse to stop
> the flow of ink to the nib). Very simple device: it has a stem inside the
> barrel that presses into feed which stops any ink from entering the nib. A
> graphic of this system can also be seen on the FPN posting I referred
> earlier.
I also got one of these recently. I got the "Densho" it's smaller than
the other one that came out on clearance a few months ago. They feature
a thinner Bock nib that has more give, but not true flex. Mine was not a
good writer until I replaced the feed with one that supplied more ink.
Now it is a favorite. And yes, skin oils impart a smooth sheen to the
pen that is pleasing. The pens are stunningly beautiful when painted
with Maki-E as seen on the Dani-Trio web site. Of course they go for
$1,500 to $5,500 per pen. And write the same as my plain one! Maybe I
can find a can of Krylon in the garage and do a Wal-Mart Urushi.....
>
>
Cuz
bill7tx
Ha! I love it! or how about a Rust-O-rushi?
Thanks for the laugh!
Bill
Barky Bark
Every time she says it all the students stiffen.
"so what" <chgos...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Ben Wilson
Those who know me know that I'm joking, but those who don't
misunderestimate me. ;-)