rowe-ami Ti-1 need HELP
Brutusx
fuse ,can not make it through one complete cycle without blowing the
fuse. Any thoughts?
Oldtimejuker
This is the 30 volt AC fuse . There are 4 things in this circuit .
Latch coil in the keyboard, (most likely cause) search unit motor,
magazine motor, (runs the record basket) and the transfer motor (puts
the record on the turntable).
Cheers,Ray
kreed
have actually had this exact problem, it turned out to be a magazine
motor that probably had shorted turns. (i just replaced it rather than
repair it as I had plenty of spares on hand at the time). Most of the
time it wouldnt make a full cycle before blowing a fuse. The only
sign of distress was the F***** awful smell coming from it if you got
close enough, also it got hot. Note also that it ran at normal speed
right up to the time of the fuse blowing, it didnt slow down or
buzzzzz or anything.
try putting the switch in "scan" or "rotate" position (cant remember
exactly how it was labelled) and keep rotating the magazine. if this
causes the fuse to fail, or the motor is getting hot, then this is
your problem. Fortunately the motor isnt too hard to rewind. Other
culprits the other poster has listed. The same testing process should
be applied to these, run them continuously without any of the other
running, and when the fuse blows, you know where the culprit is.
While you are at it, thoroughly check all the wires if you have been
working on the machine before this fault started, of if you purchased
it with this fault without knowing if the last owner(s) had been
fiddling with it - as I also had a nasty incident where the cam switch
assembly was removed and replaced by a friend, and a wire was
partially pinched under one of the mounting plate screws. It must
have only shorted a couple of strands, or it must have been a long way
from the supply to where it was - and thin wire maybe ? as it would
actually work for a short time before blowing the fuse. This was a
very frustrating and time consuming fault finding exercise, as it also
caused some weird intermittent faults in the circuit that it was found
in.
Brutusx
Thank you for your help! I can get it to scan with no problem and also
pick a record ,set it down and replace without blowin the fuse. I
found that when i leave the left plug to the circuit board i do not
blow a fuse but as soon as i plug it in the fuse will blow in
seconds.All of the connections appear to be solid as they go to S2
relay. Does that mean the motor is bad? and if so can u even still get
the part? Thank you very much for your time and support !
kreed
which circuit board - search unit ? if it blows when you connect it
there is something wrong in there. While it may be the motor, it could
be a short circuit anywhere in the 28v lines in the search unit.
It could also be the latch bar solenoid, as I think (from memory) that
the search unit needs to be connected for this to work. To test this,
make sure the credits are zero so as the latch solenoid isnt
operational (it holds in whenever there is credit in the machine).
Unplugging the connector from the credit unit is probably the best way
to ensure there isnt credit.
Another way to test this is to hold down the relay in the button bank
that switches the latch bar coil. (determine which one by tracing wire
colours from relay contacts to latch coil) I dont think that the
search unit needs to be connected for this test, so leave it
disconnected when doing this. If the fuse blows, then you know its not
the search motor. if the coil never energises, then you will have to
further investigate why.
The search motor should only ever get power when a letter and a number
button are held in (and there is sufficient credit).
kreed
--------------
Actually you are luckier than some.
I was just mentioning this problem of yours to a collegue, who
reminded me of a RI - 1 (A US imported one and the only one that i had
ever seen here) that I reconditioned the mech for him about 18 years
back, that had never worked properly for some unknown reason, and
found out that the main reason was that some fool in the past had
tried to work on it using a candle for illumination, and managed to
drip candle wax all through the search unit, other parts and on the
front of the machine, where it permanently discoloured the metal
extrusions that form the front of the machine. It also played havoc
with relay and search wiper contacts where it fell too.
That was a real shit of a job to clean it all out, but we did it, and
the machine worked perfectly for some years after until it was sold
and dropped out of our sight .
Other than not holding the full 100 records, these and RI-2 were a
good little machine for the tight spots, looked good, and had great
sound (for their size) to boot.
Brutusx
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Thanks for all the info! Well i think i have it narrowed down to the
solenoid @ the latch coil? But would that also cause the fuse to blow
when the 3rd plug is plugged into the board? Do you know where i can
locate a solenoid? having trouble finding one ! Thanks again i
would still be scratchin my head if it wasnt for your insight
kreed
I doubt you would find a solenoid anywhere these days, as there werent
as many of these machines produced as the 200 selection units (had a
different solenoid as they had a different keyboard). You probably
have to go to a transformer or motor rewinding specialist and have it
re-wound.
First though, I would remove the connectors from the solenoid,
(insulate so they dont touch the chassis) and try and see if the fuse
still blows, if it does I would check other parts of the circuit for
any shorts to chassis or gnd. (relay contacts may have foreign matter
on them or might be touching against something for example. Not
likely but possible.
which is the 3rd plug you refer to ? search unit ? The search unit
has to be connected to the machine for the latch solenoid to operate.
Try disconnecting the wire from the solenoid and see if the fuse still
blows with solenoid out of circuit.
The search unit only operates the latch solenoid through the latch
relay in the button bank, it is switched by the 24vdc system to the
search unit, (and via the cabinet harness to the credit unit.)
The only reason that 28vac comes to the search unit is for the search
motor, but it does go through several switches on the way to it.
Part of this circuit is via the buttons, 28vac will be supplied when
ANY letter AND ANY number button are held in together. If needed,
check for any shorts or foreign matter around the button bank wiring
too.
Its confusing to explain, a manual with a wiring diagram might be a
good idea for you to get.
Brutusx
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Well I tried to unplug the solenoid and when i do it does not blow the
fuse.So that should narrow it down to the solenoid...right?
kreed
Its the solenoid then.
Oldtimejuker
Your juke can operate without the latch coil if you hold both selector
keys in when making selections. But if you want to replace it , I have
2 TI-1 parts machines. Side note to Kreed: The TI-1 IS a 200
selection juke.
kreed
oh shite :)
so sorry
I was thinking of the RI-1 (100 sel)
TI-1 IS indeed a 200 selection machine.
Brutusx
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Well I put everything back and tried it like oldtimejuker said and son
of a gun ii worked!!! But when it plays it sounds like it is gettin
drowned out ....is there an adjustment for the speed?
kreed
Too slow ? That's normal, on these machines. There is no adjustment
for speed on these machines.
First, make sure that nothing is catching on the turntable as it
rotates (the mechanism shroud - if its even fitted still :), and also
that the record isnt slipping on the TT as it rotates. (try putting
something heavy on the label - such as a couple of 50c coins to hold
it down firmly and see if it helps).
Removing the turntable and lubricating down the shaft with a couple of
drops of oil, or silicone lubricant spray can help. Make sure there
isnt any dirt or crud down there. Also oil the hub bearing of idler
wheel - and linkage shafts where they rotate. DO NOT get oil on the
rubber wheel.
Check tension of the idler wheel spring, and the rubber wheel itself -
you may have to replace it if it hasn't got much traction any more. I
don't know where you would get a new one, about 10 years back I made
one by cutting 2 or 3 layers of rigid sheet rubber, and gluing them
together around the existing shaft to make a new "tyre" for the wheel.
(if anyone else has any ideas in making or sourcing idler wheels, Im
open to suggestions)
Other thing you can check is the turntable "thrust bearing" which is
located under the mechanism about 3" down from the spindle area. Undo
the 2 screws and remove the plate, the bearing and spacer should be
able to be removed from the sleeve and checked. (they are white
plastic). if they are stubborn, you can carefully push them out from
above using a small screwdriver, or something that will fit down the
hole.
You can replace the bearing, (you could cut polycarbonate to the same
dimensions) or turn it upside down to the other side, if no-one has
tried this already in the past.
Finally, if all else fails, you can build up the shaft of the
turntable motor to increase the speed. Various methods, such as small
springs of extremely thin wire, can be pushed over the shaft to
increase its diameter. I have also seen heat shrink tubing,
electrical tape, rubber from bicycle tyre valve etc used in the past,
but they will wear away over time.
On the Australian manufactured AMI, they used 2 pole BSR turntable
motors with a brass shaft, (50HZ) that was thicker than the USA
model's 4 pole black motor (60HZ), and you could sand them down, apply
solder to the shaft to build it up, and carefully sand it back a
little at a time until the desired speed was achieved. We would check
the RPM it by counting 15 turns of the record in 20seconds using the
second hand of a wristwatch.
The US shaft isn't brass, and solder wont "take" to it :(
Brutusx
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I want to thank you for all your help! I got it cleaned up and alittle
oil and it sounds great! Thanks
kreed
Im just really happy that its all going :)
These are a nice AMI machine from that era. :)