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Seeburg 161 Scans twice does NOT select record.... ONLY sometimes
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pacman...@yahoo.com
Sep 4, 2012, 11:26:29 AM9/4/12
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Hey all-
My Seeburg 161 has a intermittent problem. It works most of the time just fine, but every once in awhile it does the scan twice and does not pick up a record when a selection is made. I also notice that if I select 6 songs...it may only play 5 of them. Sometimes when you make a selection it will not grab the record on the first scan, but will grab it on the second scan. Any ideas...could this be a weak or failing tube? I'm asking this because it is intermittent...seems most times people have this issue it works fine or it not at all. The selection receiver was recapped less than a year ago.
-Mark
I should also mention that I have a working wallbox hooked up to it...can't say I've used it much so I don't know if it acts up when selections are made from the wallbox. Figured I mention it though, as it may help in troubleshooting it.
My Seeburg 161 has a intermittent problem. It works most of the time just fine, but every once in awhile it does the scan twice and does not pick up a record when a selection is made. I also notice that if I select 6 songs...it may only play 5 of them. Sometimes when you make a selection it will not grab the record on the first scan, but will grab it on the second scan. Any ideas...could this be a weak or failing tube? I'm asking this because it is intermittent...seems most times people have this issue it works fine or it not at all. The selection receiver was recapped less than a year ago.
-Mark
I should also mention that I have a working wallbox hooked up to it...can't say I've used it much so I don't know if it acts up when selections are made from the wallbox. Figured I mention it though, as it may help in troubleshooting it.
John Robertson
Sep 4, 2012, 2:25:29 PM9/4/12
to
pacman...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Hey all-
> My Seeburg 161 has a intermittent problem. It works most of the time just fine, but every once in awhile it does the scan twice and does not pick up a record when a selection is made. I also notice that if I select 6 songs...it may only play 5 of them. Sometimes when you make a selection it will not grab the record on the first scan, but will grab it on the second scan.. Any ideas...could this be a weak or failing tube? I'm asking this because it is intermittent...seems most times people have this issue it works fine or it not at all. The selection receiver was recapped less than a year ago.
they may be low or perhaps you have failing capacitors and thus have
some ripple on the B+ that is affecting the write-in process.
Have you re-capped the control centre and amplifier or where they done
within the last ten or so years? Electrolytic capacitors only last about
twenty years after all...
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
> Hey all-
> My Seeburg 161 has a intermittent problem. It works most of the time just fine, but every once in awhile it does the scan twice and does not pick up a record when a selection is made. I also notice that if I select 6 songs...it may only play 5 of them. Sometimes when you make a selection it will not grab the record on the first scan, but will grab it on the second scan.. Any ideas...could this be a weak or failing tube? I'm asking this because it is intermittent...seems most times people have this issue it works fine or it not at all. The selection receiver was recapped less than a year ago.
> -Mark
> I should also mention that I have a working wallbox hooked up to it...can't say I've used it much so I don't know if it acts up when selections are made from the wallbox. Figured I mention it though, as it may help in troubleshooting it.
You are having a write-in problem. Check the voltages, etc. as I suspect
> I should also mention that I have a working wallbox hooked up to it...can't say I've used it much so I don't know if it acts up when selections are made from the wallbox. Figured I mention it though, as it may help in troubleshooting it.
they may be low or perhaps you have failing capacitors and thus have
some ripple on the B+ that is affecting the write-in process.
Have you re-capped the control centre and amplifier or where they done
within the last ten or so years? Electrolytic capacitors only last about
twenty years after all...
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
pacman...@yahoo.com
Sep 5, 2012, 7:10:22 AM9/5/12
to
On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 11:26:30 AM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
> Hey all- My Seeburg 161 has a intermittent problem. It works most of the time just fine, but every once in awhile it does the scan twice and does not pick up a record when a selection is made. I also notice that if I select 6 songs...it may only play 5 of them. Sometimes when you make a selection it will not grab the record on the first scan, but will grab it on the second scan. Any ideas...could this be a weak or failing tube? I'm asking this because it is intermittent...seems most times people have this issue it works fine or it not at all. The selection receiver was recapped less than a year ago. -Mark I should also mention that I have a working wallbox hooked up to it...can't say I've used it much so I don't know if it acts up when selections are made from the wallbox. Figured I mention it though, as it may help in troubleshooting it.
Thanks for the response. Right before I wrote my intial post I reseated several tubes and connectors...it hasn't acted up since. I don't know if it's a coincidence or the problem is just that intermittent. The selection receiver was recapped less than a year ago. Since I couldn't get it to act up last night, I didn't open it up to dig in into it. I did pull out my service manual and looked at the write-in schematics....it looks like a good place to start when it acts up next time. I was able to see the tubes and test points that I will check next time it flakes out.
> Hey all- My Seeburg 161 has a intermittent problem. It works most of the time just fine, but every once in awhile it does the scan twice and does not pick up a record when a selection is made. I also notice that if I select 6 songs...it may only play 5 of them. Sometimes when you make a selection it will not grab the record on the first scan, but will grab it on the second scan. Any ideas...could this be a weak or failing tube? I'm asking this because it is intermittent...seems most times people have this issue it works fine or it not at all. The selection receiver was recapped less than a year ago. -Mark I should also mention that I have a working wallbox hooked up to it...can't say I've used it much so I don't know if it acts up when selections are made from the wallbox. Figured I mention it though, as it may help in troubleshooting it.
Thanks for the info.
John Robertson
Sep 5, 2012, 5:03:58 PM9/5/12
to
selections to see if the problem is in the write or read systems...
I think that is mentioned on my page here:
https://www.flippers.com/Seeburg-trblshoot.html
lino...@yahoo.com
Sep 8, 2012, 6:24:58 AM9/8/12
to
"Sometimes when you make a selection it will not grab the record on the first scan...."
If that occurs without having selected the record again, the problem is readout failure.
Some causes:
1) Marginal tubes, either the 12AX7 or trip 2050. Often the incoming line voltage may vary at certain times of the day, a tube with emission that is trending down will fail to adequately conduct when the voltage drops below a certain point. The 2050 should have a deep violet glow in the center when it trips the mech. If it is sky blue the tube is weak.
2) Examine the plunger block that rides along under the Tormat. Pull down -slightly- on it and check that the plungers have some over-travel and stay in-contact with the rivets. Look for broken wires that connect the plungers, not too likely in this case but a common problem. Then with the mech scanning check that the block and plungers stay in a straight line as the mech goes back and forth.
3) Check the condition and adjustment of the detent switch on the mech. Over time these can get gunked and intermittent. They also wear the contacts and after a certain point will produce a readout pulse that is either too short or fails altogether.
One overall check is to start the mech scanning (service sw in normal)and observe the flickering in the 0A2 regulator tubes. They should rapidly flicker as the mech scans but get momentarily brighter at the ends when the mech reverses. This test only applies if you have the "glow" type 0A2's.
There are some resistors to check in the selection receiver but hopefully these were changed when the receiver was rebuilt..
Rob/NYC
If that occurs without having selected the record again, the problem is readout failure.
Some causes:
1) Marginal tubes, either the 12AX7 or trip 2050. Often the incoming line voltage may vary at certain times of the day, a tube with emission that is trending down will fail to adequately conduct when the voltage drops below a certain point. The 2050 should have a deep violet glow in the center when it trips the mech. If it is sky blue the tube is weak.
2) Examine the plunger block that rides along under the Tormat. Pull down -slightly- on it and check that the plungers have some over-travel and stay in-contact with the rivets. Look for broken wires that connect the plungers, not too likely in this case but a common problem. Then with the mech scanning check that the block and plungers stay in a straight line as the mech goes back and forth.
3) Check the condition and adjustment of the detent switch on the mech. Over time these can get gunked and intermittent. They also wear the contacts and after a certain point will produce a readout pulse that is either too short or fails altogether.
One overall check is to start the mech scanning (service sw in normal)and observe the flickering in the 0A2 regulator tubes. They should rapidly flicker as the mech scans but get momentarily brighter at the ends when the mech reverses. This test only applies if you have the "glow" type 0A2's.
There are some resistors to check in the selection receiver but hopefully these were changed when the receiver was rebuilt..
Rob/NYC
lino...@yahoo.com
Sep 8, 2012, 10:12:16 AM9/8/12
to
I need to correct item #1. If the unit does pickup after scanning again w/out the disk being re-selected it would NOT be tubes.
Reason: The mech applies the readout pulse whenever it scans (except if the service sw in in "service position") so the Toroid would have been readout regardless of whether the pulse or trip tubes are working.
Rob/NYC
Reason: The mech applies the readout pulse whenever it scans (except if the service sw in in "service position") so the Toroid would have been readout regardless of whether the pulse or trip tubes are working.
Rob/NYC
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