I've got my first Juke, now how do I fix it?
Ian Greenaway
I got a Seeburg esps2 Matador yesterday. I put a post up last week about it.
It is digital, I'm afraid (1974) with telephone keypad and some sort of
electronic programming - looks a bit tricky, but I'm OK fixing pinballs, so
I'll give it a go.
It plays fine, but seems to have a mind of its own as far as making the
selections. It seems to pick a pattern of records, occasionally interspersed
with one that you actually wanted !
It has some sort of Digital Transmitter / Receiver / Decoder type box. My
guess is that this is programmed for a particular selection when no money is
put in.
There's a box called a "Digital Transmitter and Pricing unit" already
installed, with a UK pricing card fitted for 10p play. I also got another
"DTPU" box and one called a "Digital Receiver and Decoder" which looks
pretty much the same, but without the slot for the pricing card.
How does this all work - do I really need a manual to sort out this problem?
Any ideas, or details of companies in the UK who may have a manual for the
mechanics and selection electronics, plus a source of light bulbs for the
selection lamps and a new double-sided stylus.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Ian
drj
you'll learn about the workings if your machine in the process!
It is very common that an unrestored Seeburg of this vintage will miss
selections. Since it is actually selecting and picking up records,
chances are that the DCC amd the black and grey boxes are ok.
WHat you need to do is to take apart and clean the keypad. The
little board in there is gold-plated, but is nevertheless a
troublemaker. Reassenble it and try again, and report back.
The prblem could also be in a bad connection somewhere en the signal
route, or in the grey box. The viper switches that run under the
tormat should also be cleaned and checked. Also clean the tormat rivet
contacts.
drj
Ian Greenaway
news:3aacfb0c....@news.algonet.se...
> The help you need is probably available right here - and as a bonus
> you'll learn about the workings if your machine in the process!
>
> It is very common that an unrestored Seeburg of this vintage will miss
> selections. Since it is actually selecting and picking up records,
> chances are that the DCC amd the black and grey boxes are ok.
> WHat you need to do is to take apart and clean the keypad. The
> little board in there is gold-plated, but is nevertheless a
> troublemaker. Reassenble it and try again, and report back.
> The prblem could also be in a bad connection somewhere en the signal
> route, or in the grey box. The viper switches that run under the
> tormat should also be cleaned and checked. Also clean the tormat rivet
> contacts.
> drj
I intend to strip the whole machine down and clean her up - contacts and
all.
What do those strange boxes do? And why does it try to always select a few
records in the 150 to 279 range before picking the ones that I actually
asked for. Just bad contacts etc?
Thanks
Ian
Tony Miklos
connect the tormat to the selection receiver. I forget if there are 1
or 3 on this model. One will be at the selection receiver and the other
two may be near the service switches. Make sure they have perfectly
clean contacts. Sometimes I see where others have added a ground wire
from the tormat to the selection receiver. This may help also. In
addition, in the selection receiver unit, remove all boards and clean
the contacts where the plugs go on.
Tony Miklos
Pinball Paramedic
Don S.
>The help you need is probably available right here - and as a bonus
>you'll learn about the workings if your machine in the process!
You may want to go to www.GameRoomMagazine.com, and check out their weblinks
section. Lots of good general info out there. As noted above, specific
questions to the newsgroup will generally bring good results.
-don
anti-spam address = x.rek...@earthlink.net
remove the x-dot for the real address
drj
<hev...@totalise.co.uk> wrote
>I intend to strip the whole machine down and clean her up - contacts and
>all.
>
Do one unit at a time, and try her out.
>What do those strange boxes do? And why does it try to always select a few
>records in the 150 to 279 range before picking the ones that I actually
>asked for. Just bad contacts etc?
Yes, esp. in the keypad.
Tony Miller
<hev...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
You need to buy the book, 'The Seeburg Black and Grey Boxes", written
by me and available from GameRoomMagazine.com, AlwaysJukin.com,
VictoryGlass.com or AntiqueElectronicSupply.com (or me).
Cheers,
Tony Miller
>
Merlin Amusements
Before you take apart & clean the keypad, clean and inspect the detent
switch. The problem you describe sounds like that is the culprit. It is
located next to the drive motor. Use a 1/4" nut driver and remove the cover
and nuts that hold it on. Degrease it and polish the contacts, but be
careful not to bend the blades. Put it together and it should work fine,
unless there are any other problems. Cleaning the tormat contacts is good
advice, too. Don't bend the wiper blades. 99% of the times I have found this
symptom, these two items needed attention.
Good luck and enjoy!
Mike
Ian Greenaway <hev...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:98ikql$irf$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
pale fox
http://www.seeburg.com/jukes/sps2.htm
I also working on the same model what is the trouble??
Pale fox
drj
found on ebay or from some jukebox vendors. Some have schematics that
can not be read because the detail is gone. The "original" AMR
reprints were for the most part of good quality. These are what
Victory Glass and some others sell. Best is to get an original
manual!
As for books like Tony Miller's on Black and Grey boxes, we should
be glad that people with the knowledge (Tony was involved with the
design of the Seeburg selection system at the time) take their time to
write it down. So let's support their effort and give them their
dues.
drj
On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:35:46 -0000, "Ian Greenaway"
<hev...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>"pale fox" <noe...@noemailno.com> wrote in message
>news:2001314-21...@foorum.com...
Ian Greenaway
Hi,
Tried replying to you direct, but you have anti-spam email address - I hate
those!
I've only just got it and really haven't started trying to fix it up yet.
It's quie dirty and has not been used for some time. I was trying to get
some idea of where to start when I begin the restoration.
The pickup/amp are OK, just the selection that's a problem. It selects a few
random records before moving on to the ones that I actually asked for!
Apparently I need to look at the "detent" switch and the contacts under the
"tormat". Two new words that I have learnt from this group in the last week.
I have no manual yet, mainly because I object to paying $30 or more for a
poor photocopy, when most of my Pinball machine manuals were downloaded free
from the internet - shame there's no jukebox manual archive (acrobat/pdf
files) for Jukes - or is there ?
Ian in the UK
Mark Robinson
The AMR/Victory manuals are not lousy photocopies. They do a very nice job (at least on the ones I have purchased). Its a
very good investment.
Mark Robinson
Tony Miller
wrote:
>There are some vvery lousy photocopies floating around, they can be
>found on ebay or from some jukebox vendors. Some have schematics that
>can not be read because the detail is gone. The "original" AMR
>reprints were for the most part of good quality. These are what
>Victory Glass and some others sell. Best is to get an original
>manual!
In actuality, Victory Glass bought out AMR, so I'm sure the original
AMR quality is there, since Victory Glass does a good job with
everything else. Indeed, AMR bound their versions of the Seeburg
manuals much better than Seeburg did. I don't think one can go wrong
buying an AMR manual from either Victory Glass or Always Jukin', who
also sells them. I have bought several Seebrug manuals from Always
Jukin', and can attest to their quality.
> As for books like Tony Miller's on Black and Grey boxes, we should
>be glad that people with the knowledge (Tony was involved with the
>design of the Seeburg selection system at the time) take their time to
>write it down. So let's support their effort and give them their
>dues.
Thanks much for the kind words. I was convinced by a friend of mine
that the Black & Grey box book needed to be written, otherwise those
'70s Seeburg jukeboxes would end up in the scrap heap instead of
bringing enjoyment to people. I had access to documentation from
Seeburg (when real Seeburg people ran the place, not the rip-off
artist of late), and was able to speak to the people involved (whom I
worked for at one time) to get their recollections. I put a lot of
effort into that book, including having it professionally printed with
a spiral binding (so that it will lay open to a specific page without
having to bend it) and with fold-out reproductions of the original
schematics at the rear. It even includes a semiconductor
cross-reference, so one does not have to go and purchase one
separately. If you consider how much of my time I put into this
project, I'll never recoup my investment. But I considered it
something that needed to be done, and am currently working on a couple
more Seeburg-related manuals. So you might imagine that I'm not too
happy about Mr. Greenaway's comments about 'cheap photocopies'.
I have even offered to help him troubleshoot via email without him
buying my book (although I have suggested that he buy the mechanism
adjustments manual, since he will need it). So far, he has not
responded.
Regarding Internet pinball documentation vs jukebox, I think there are
several reasons why you can download virtually any pinball schematic
you want from a website and cannot do the same for jukeboxes:
1. Pinball production far outwieghed jukebox production in
virtually any year you look at. For example, when I was with
Stern/URL, we put out easily 10,000 20,000 pins/year. When I was with
Seeburg, we were lucky to get out 7,000 or so. So there are many more
pins out there.
2. You'll find many more posts to rec.games pinball (about
350/day) as opposed to alt.collecting.jukeboxes (around 8-10).
3. I'll venture that more Internet-savvy people are pinball
fanatics vice jukebox fanatics, mainly due to the assumed ages of
each. Pinball junkies are probably in their teens, twenties and
thirties while most of us are in our forties and fifties (apologies to
the group if I'm wrong). So many more folks get nostalgic about their
favorite pins than a juke, especially since there have not been a lot
of jukes around for the last 10-20 years what with everyone having a
walkman, boombox, etc.
4. There are several companies out there trying to perform a
needed service with replacement parts etc., and these are not free.
Investing in the tooling to make such a part can cost thousands of
dollars. It would be nice to make that money back, eventually. But
it is certainly possible to get ripped off buying things on the net.
That is why it is so important to go with a reputable vendor, and
maybe pay a few bucks more because of it. At least if you have a
problem, they'll be there to fix it.
My opinions only.
Tony Miller
Ian Greenaway
Please don't think that I was taking a dig at your work on the Seeburg
"Black and Gray Boxes". It sounds as though you have put a great deal of
time and effort into the book. It may be that I don't need to buy it to fix
my problem, but it's possible that I might.
I also appreciate your assistance with advice on this group too, and have
posted back that I will try and check out the areas that I've had pointed
out over the last week or so ("Tormat and Detent Switch" in particular). If
I require any help, and have no luck in getting the Matador fully
functioning, then I will ask - believe me.
At present, I'm just looking for pointers in the right direction, as I've
had no time to look into the unit yet.
I was really complaining about the cost of copied manuals, as many people
(on this gropu and elsewhere) had advised me that the manuals available for
$30 to $60 were, in general, poor quality photocopies of the original
manufacturers manuals. If I am now led to believe that manuals from the
likes of Victory Glass are of a high quality, then I will purchase from one
of the companies mentioned.
Sorry, Tony, if you didn't feel that your advice was appreciated - it was.
BTW - I have discovered, just this evening in fact, that after the 5 or 6
random records that the sps2 picks up when you first turn it on, it then
plays all of the records that I choose after that correctly. It seems to be
OK once the mechanism goes back to the left (zero position?) and resets OK.
It's as if it doesn't know where it is on the Tormat? until it goes right
back to 100, then it finds its way again - is this possible, or a reasonable
assumption?
Cheers
Ian
"Tony Miller" <fmil...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:3ab636c...@news.pacbell.net...