Definition of scalping?
MAXB64
I am going to play devils advocate here!! I am just raising this point as
a matter for debate. I do not support either side in this argument .....
How are we defining scalping. The way I see it, the people selling Erin and
other Beanies at $200+ are only selling these at the current market value
so no-one actually loses...... Now if they were selling something for $200
that only had a market value of $6 then I would be outraged as well.
However, I bought Princess for $200 back in January and for all I know the
seller could have been a retailer but that is irrelevant as I could have
sold it the very next day for the same price I bought it.....So everyone is
happy right? Now, okay so the dealer bought it for $2.50 but what if I
found one in a shop tomorrow for $6 and sold it on for $200. What is the
difference?
I agree that it is the kids who are losing out here but I don't think we
should be looking for anyone to blame apart from TY themselves......If they
release ceratin Beanies in scarce quantities then there are always going to
be people, delears and non-dealers alike who are going to sell them on at
the secondary market prices this kind of practice encourages.
I am interested in seeing where this debate goes......
Anton A Kryzsko
Oh I do blame Ty and the suckers who are willing to pay the outrageous
prices. However your definition does not hold water. Under your
definition nothing would be scalping. Say I bought tickets to a very
popular concert that sold out in 2 hours. I paid $40 bucks a ticket, and
many of those not lucky enough to get a ticket were willing to pay $200 for
one of my tickets. Now under the legal definition of scalping I would be a
scalper if I sold those tickets for $200. Now $200 may be the going rate
or "the market value" but I would still be a scalper. Under your
definition this would not be scalping. Here is Webster's definition: Slang.
To buy and sell (securities or commodities) in order to make small, quick
profits. I think by definition people who buy up beanies for a quick
re-sell are scalpers. That is not to say what they are doing is wrong or
immoral, but those of us who are unwilling to pay ridiculous prices do not
have to like them. See, one of the problems is that they quickly buy up
those HTFs that are on the market then they horde stockpiles which further
drives up prices. I do think you are right about the number one person who
is to blame being Ty Warner. He needs to flood the market and kill the
secondary market once and for all. I just hope that it is worth the extra
money to those of you who got Princess for $200-$400 when there are PVC
Princesses selling for $110 right now. That price will keep going down.
Suckers!
EEISENST
On 2 Mar 1998, MAXB64 wrote:
> I am going to play devils advocate here!! I am just raising this point as
> a matter for debate. I do not support either side in this argument .....
>
> How are we defining scalping. The way I see it, the people selling Erin and
> other Beanies at $200+ are only selling these at the current market value
> so no-one actually loses..
Wow, first statement, and it is so far off the mark. Who, WHO sets $200 as
current market value? Could that be the SCALPERS?
No one loses? Horse hockey. Little kids lose out BIG time. The only
individual who doesn't lose is the low life scum who bought the beanie for
retail and jacked up the price.
<where's the O/2 I'm starting to hyperventilate>
.... Now if they were selling something for $200
> that only had a market value of $6 then I would be outraged as well.
You should be.
> However, I bought Princess for $200 back in January and for all I know the
> seller could have been a retailer but that is irrelevant as I could have
> sold it the very next day for the same price I bought it.....So everyone is
> happy right?
Ah, the smoke clears, the water unmuddies. You paid $200 for a bear that
cost < $2 to make, and retails for $5. You paid $200. Trying to justify
your purchase price? I think so. The only person that is happy is the
person who made a whopping $195 profit on your purchase. Can you sell that
Princess today for $200? Nope, going price is hovering in the $100.
Now, okay so the dealer bought it for $2.50 but what if I
> found one in a shop tomorrow for $6 and sold it on for $200. What is the
> difference?
>
In the first instance you were impatient and willing to pay the price.
Only one who suffered was you, and of course the kids who didn't get a
shot at buying the bear at retail. So, you are a victim of scalping. In
the above instance, you move over to the dark side and become a scalper.
> I agree that it is the kids who are losing out here but I don't think we
> should be looking for anyone to blame apart from TY themselves......If they
> release ceratin Beanies in scarce quantities then there are always going to
> be people, delears and non-dealers alike who are going to sell them on at
> the secondary market prices this kind of practice encourages.
Sure I blame Ty, but I don't for one minute absolve anyone from scalping a
beanie just because, "hey, it's a free country and I love to make money by
exploiting others."
Day 4 of beanie sobriety, I'm a little cranky.
But,
not one phone call, not one stop off at a gift shop, no longing looks at
the UPS truck. And hey, think of all the fat I'll avoid by staying away
from Mc D's. Most of all, think of all the money I WON'T be spending.
Joy
DJC40
You Go Joy!!
Jesus is Alive!
MAXB64 wrote in message <01bd45fb$84c5b820$b042...@xep21.dial.pipex.com>...
>I am going to play devils advocate here!! I am just raising this point as
>a matter for debate. I do not support either side in this argument .....
>
>How are we defining scalping. The way I see it, the people selling Erin and
>other Beanies at $200+ are only selling these at the current market value
I make an exception to defining scalping when it comes to Brittania, Erin,
Princess and the other specialty bears. No one has ANY right to complain
about the prices of these bears if they are not willing to be patient (VERY
patient) to get these bears at a reasonable cost. I am a dealer but refuse
to pay more than $100-$120 for these bears because I am NOT willing to sell
them for more than $125-$150. That's just me.
An example of scalping is on older retireds. Flutter the Butterfly, for
instance books for around $800. Yes, I know that's low but if someone is
selling one for $5,000+ (I have actually seen this), that's scalping.
My $0.02 worth,
Doug Litten, General Manager
Upper Room Enterprises
http://members.aol.com/mysaviorjc/bb/bb.html
MAXB64
I have been reading everyones posts on this and thinking it through....
What is scalping and what isn't?
If I was to go and buy $1000 worth of shares in say Microsoft and the next
week they went up to $2000 and I sold them to someone else (via a broker
admittedly but ultimately I am selling my shares to someone else..) is this
scalping? I only paid $1000 for them and would end up with an instant $1000
profit. Now the person buying the shares at $200 doesn't lose because they
are worth that on the open market.....Now it is the same argument with
Beanies. Okay so the delaer who sold me Princess only paid $2.50 for it but
the $200 I paid for her was not unjustified as it is worth that.
I think if we are all going to condemn scalping we should look at the wider
context. I am starting to think that all we are seeing here is a microcosm
of how markets work.
As for people selling older retireds such as Humphrey for $2000, again I
see no problem with this. When it is safe to sell something without being
called a scalper? What is an appropriate period of time. If your
grandparents had bought a Van Gogh painting from the artist himself back in
the 1800s for a couple of cents and you then sold it at auction for $20
million would everyone accuse you of scalping? Or would it be alright
because such a long period of time had elapsed? If I sell my Princess in
ten years time for $400 is that scalping? Just curious......
I agree with everyone that kids are losing out here, that I have never
denied.
Just throwing a few ideas about.....
Tiamat
Dear Max,
I would define scalpers as those persons who show up at the
back-door of the Hallmark as the truck shows up and buy most of,
if not all, of the beanie shippment "from the back-door". It is
to the shop-keepers advantage to do this , as they can generally
get cash up front, ( and a moderate profit for selling this way)
and they are saved the hassle of having to deal with us, the
customers. (Now don't jump on me about "hassle", folks. I have
talked to several retailers and they have a love-hate
relationship with beanies and with us. ) These scalpers then take
the beanies to a kiosk, or to a show or flea-market (or put an
ad in a the paper) and sell them for exhorbitant prices.
These actions combine to do two things: 1) The kids get frozen
out a bunch, and that ain't right. 2) It creates an artificial
scarcity that inflates the secondary market.
There ARE things we can do about it, though: 1) Never, ever buy
from a kiosk or flea-market table that isn't selling for retail
prices. It's simple economics. If they can't make money,
scalpers will stop and prices will come down. 2) Be an advocate
for the kids. We adults have credit cards and cars. If you
have a little niece or nieghbor who loves beanies, consider
buying an extra or two on those occaisions when you DO find
them for retail. There is nothing so fullfilling as the
delighted smile of a child who is presented with something she
desperatly wants and could not have a hope of getting without the
aid of a "fairy godmother". Besides, doing things like that is
good for your karma.
Tia
In article <01bd45fb$84c5b820$b042...@xep21.dial.pipex.com>, "MAXB64"
<max...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
> I am going to play devils advocate here!! I am just raising this point as
> a matter for debate. I do not support either side in this argument .....
>
> How are we defining scalping. The way I see it, the people selling Erin and
> other Beanies at $200+ are only selling these at the current market value
> so no-one actually loses...... Now if they were selling something for $200
> that only had a market value of $6 then I would be outraged as well.
> However, I bought Princess for $200 back in January and for all I know the
> seller could have been a retailer but that is irrelevant as I could have
> sold it the very next day for the same price I bought it.....So everyone is
> happy right? Now, okay so the dealer bought it for $2.50 but what if I
> found one in a shop tomorrow for $6 and sold it on for $200. What is the
> difference?
>
> I agree that it is the kids who are losing out here but I don't think we
> should be looking for anyone to blame apart from TY themselves......If they
> release ceratin Beanies in scarce quantities then there are always going to
> be people, delears and non-dealers alike who are going to sell them on at
> the secondary market prices this kind of practice encourages.
>
> I am interested in seeing where this debate goes......
--
"Just a Bronze-Age Gal trapped in a Techno World".
Valerie Myers
EEISENST wrote:
>
> On 2 Mar 1998, MAXB64 wrote:
>
> > I am going to play devils advocate here!! I am just raising this point as
> > a matter for debate. I do not support either side in this argument .....
> >
> > How are we defining scalping. The way I see it, the people selling Erin and
> > other Beanies at $200+ are only selling these at the current market value
>
> Wow, first statement, and it is so far off the mark. Who, WHO sets $200 as
> current market value? Could that be the SCALPERS?
>
> No one loses? Horse hockey. Little kids lose out BIG time. The only
> individual who doesn't lose is the low life scum who bought the beanie for
> retail and jacked up the price.
>
> <where's the O/2 I'm starting to hyperventilate>
>
> > that only had a market value of $6 then I would be outraged as well.
>
>
> > However, I bought Princess for $200 back in January and for all I know the
> > seller could have been a retailer but that is irrelevant as I could have
> > sold it the very next day for the same price I bought it.....So everyone is
> > happy right?
>
> cost < $2 to make, and retails for $5. You paid $200. Trying to justify
> your purchase price? I think so. The only person that is happy is the
> person who made a whopping $195 profit on your purchase. Can you sell that
> Princess today for $200? Nope, going price is hovering in the $100.
>
> > found one in a shop tomorrow for $6 and sold it on for $200. What is the
> > difference?
> >
>
> Only one who suffered was you, and of course the kids who didn't get a
> shot at buying the bear at retail. So, you are a victim of scalping. In
> the above instance, you move over to the dark side and become a scalper.
>
>
> > should be looking for anyone to blame apart from TY themselves......If they
> > release ceratin Beanies in scarce quantities then there are always going to
> > be people, delears and non-dealers alike who are going to sell them on at
> > the secondary market prices this kind of practice encourages.
>
> beanie just because, "hey, it's a free country and I love to make money by
> exploiting others."
>
> Day 4 of beanie sobriety, I'm a little cranky.
>
> But,
>
> not one phone call, not one stop off at a gift shop, no longing looks at
> the UPS truck. And hey, think of all the fat I'll avoid by staying away
> from Mc D's. Most of all, think of all the money I WON'T be spending.
>
> Joy
I don't like the term "scalping" because "nobody is forcing anyone to
pay high prices" for any beanie or collectible. This is a personal
choice. If people just stopped paying the prices, they would fall -
but there is always someone who "has the money", wants it real bad,
doesn't care how much they pay, etc., so what is the big deal. Free
enterprise is the American way. I won't pay over retail for a current
beanie, but I will wait for it to be in larger supply at $5.99.
Eventually they will. I don't think someone who paid $200 for Princess
is trying to justify their purchase. At the time, they probably really
wanted her, could afford it and paid the price. So what. Again, nobody
is forcing anyone to buy and the market is not going to dry up. I won't
bad mouth someone for trying to make some extra money cause they got
lucky and there is a market for Princesses and Erins. In fact, if I
find an Erin today for $5.99, I keep thinking, should I try to sell her
for $200 and fix the window in the kitchen, knowing the market is there,
or do I keep the bear cause it is cute and not care about making some
quick cash. Ty is making millions of beanies. We will all get some
eventually. Val
Valerie Myers
MAXB64 wrote:
>
> I am going to play devils advocate here!! I am just raising this point as
> a matter for debate. I do not support either side in this argument .....
>
> How are we defining scalping. The way I see it, the people selling Erin and
> other Beanies at $200+ are only selling these at the current market value
> that only had a market value of $6 then I would be outraged as well.
> seller could have been a retailer but that is irrelevant as I could have
> sold it the very next day for the same price I bought it.....So everyone is
> found one in a shop tomorrow for $6 and sold it on for $200. What is the
> difference?
>
> should be looking for anyone to blame apart from TY themselves......If they
> release ceratin Beanies in scarce quantities then there are always going to
> be people, delears and non-dealers alike who are going to sell them on at
> the secondary market prices this kind of practice encourages.
>
What I really can't stand is a store that does not put the new
merchandise out, but either holds a raffle for Erin or Princess or makes
you buy $30 worth of something to buy any new beanie. These stores now
just joined the class of "collector", not dealer. If I want to buy
marked up beanies, I'll go to a beanie show or a private dealer. A
store should just offer the merchandise at retail and if the first 12
people that come in the store get the first 12 Erin's, so be it. At
least everyone gets a chance to get lucky. What if WalMart starting
holding raffles to get every new toy that came out - there are limited
edition GI Joes and Barbies and I don't see stores raffling these off.
Val
John Henry Sucks!
"Jesus is Alive!" <ca...@intermediatn.net> wrote:
>I make an exception to defining scalping when it comes to Brittania, Erin,
>Princess and the other specialty bears. No one has ANY right to complain
>about the prices of these bears if they are not willing to be patient (VERY
>patient) to get these bears at a reasonable cost. I am a dealer but refuse
>to pay more than $100-$120 for these bears because I am NOT willing to sell
>them for more than $125-$150. That's just me.
>
>An example of scalping is on older retireds. Flutter the Butterfly, for
>instance books for around $800. Yes, I know that's low but if someone is
>selling one for $5,000+ (I have actually seen this), that's scalping.
>
>My $0.02 worth,
>
>Doug Litten, General Manager
>Upper Room Enterprises
>http://members.aol.com/mysaviorjc/bb/bb.html
Wait a minute here. You are saying that if I sold an $800 Beanie
for $5000 (about 6 times book value) to someone willing to pay that
much, then that's scalping, but if I (if I were a retailer) sell
a Beanie that I bought for $2.50 (suggested retail value $5) for
$200 (about 40 times retail value) then it's okay? Sorry pal, the
only reason the "book" value of a "current" Beanie is so high is
because of seedy retailers who are out to make a lot more than a
buck, and people who are willing to pay those prices thinking that
they can turn around and make more or who feel that thanks to people
like you they will never have a chance at one for cheaper. Get a
clue, you will never be able to defend the high prices here!
John Henry Sucks!
The difference in your comparison is that the value of stock is
determined by how well the company is doing. The value of Beanies
on the 'secondary market' is determined by how much retailers can
sell 'out the back door' and get away with. You say that Princess
is worth $200, why is that? Is it because there aren't anymore
made? No. It's because scalpers and seedy dealers buy and sell
them all without them being made available to the public and set
these prices themselves. What will Princess be worth when all retailers
are allowed to and start getting 36 in each shipment? Think about
it scalper!
Gar Robertson
Tia,
There's no such thing as "artificial scarcity" in this case. They ARE
scarce. That's why there's a second market for them. Bean Sprouts are not
scarce. I've never seen a push cart vendor selling them. There are also
LOTS of people buying beanies at silly prices, but that's their right to do
so. They can't possibly think that buying a Princess bear is an investment.
They're still being made, and the company still sells them for about $2.70
(including pro-rated UPS shipping) Until they decide to move on to some
other outlet to spend those dollars on that they seem to have more of than
sense , we will HAVE to wait.
While I don't LIKE the practice of selling out the back door, and I don't
have to support merchants I know who do this, I really can't blame them too
much. A bag of Princess bears showing up in your shipment is like hitting
the beanie lottery. A cool $2,000 or so right into the old pocket. Of course
now, it's a cool $1200, and in a few months, we'll see them on the shelves
for less than $20, while all the early buyers at $300 are scratching their
heads, wondering what they were thinking of.
One of the local Hallmark chains (3 stores) is raffling off 3 Princess
bears (one at each store) with the proceeds all going to a worthwhile
charity. That is all well and good, BUT where'd all the rest of the bears go
(3 stores 12 -36 per)...?
While I agree that we should be advocates for kids, I think we adults spend
too much time on these silly bean bags as it is now <g>. Plus, you can buy
most (not all, I know) currents you want from secondary marketers for about
$7 - $10 anyway. No great savings hunting them down all over the city, and
no standing in idiotic lines, and many times the convenience is well worth
it.
Cheers!
Gar
Tiamat wrote in message ...
><max...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>> I am going to play devils advocate here!! I am just raising this point
as
Pat Reskey
Jesus is Alive! wrote:
>
> MAXB64 wrote in message <01bd45fb$84c5b820$b042...@xep21.dial.pipex.com>...
> >a matter for debate. I do not support either side in this argument .....
> >
> >How are we defining scalping. The way I see it, the people selling Erin and
> >other Beanies at $200+ are only selling these at the current market value
>
> Princess and the other specialty bears. No one has ANY right to complain
> about the prices of these bears if they are not willing to be patient (VERY
> patient) to get these bears at a reasonable cost.
It's not just patience, it's good economic sense. We've all seen how
prices for any new releases are sky high at first, sometimes hundreds of
dollars, then they level off as the product becomes more available.
During the first week of January, new releases sold for as much as $600
each at auction. Just a few weeks later, they were available at many
stores for $5 or $6. It's taken a it longer for prices to come down on
Princess, since the supply has been more limited, with only 12 to some
(not all) stores in December, maybe 36 here and there in January, etc.
But I can remember seeing Princess selling at auction in December for
$500, and now one can be found for $100 with some diligent shopping. The
same is true for Erin. Many were willing to bid $400 - $500 on a
pre-sale basis, now one can be had for #200 - $250.
< I am a dealer but refuse
> to pay more than $100-$120 for these bears because I am NOT willing to sell
> them for more than $125-$150. That's just me.
>
> An example of scalping is on older retireds. Flutter the Butterfly, for
> instance books for around $800. Yes, I know that's low but if someone is
> selling one for $5,000+ (I have actually seen this), that's scalping.
>
> My $0.02 worth,
>
> Doug Litten, General Manager
> Upper Room Enterprises
> http://members.aol.com/mysaviorjc/bb/bb.html
I really feel the *opposite* is true. Though I agree that $5,000 is
excessive for Flutter, the older retireds will tend to hold their value
and slowly appreciate in value, since no more are being made, and we
have no reason to expect that they will show up at the local Hallmark
next week for $5.50. So, I understand that retireds will continue to
command higher prices than currents.
But I personally have no idea why people pay $200 or $300 for a new
item, when we've not really even had a chance to evaluate its relative
scarcity over time. More often than not, in a matter of either a few
weeks or a few months, these items can be found at regular retail.
What's the "fun" in wasting money, regardless of one's economic
circumstance?
But whatever our opinions, we do have to acknowledge the fact that there
would be no "scalping" if no collectors were willing to pay exhorbitant
prices.
Pat
EEISENST
On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Gar Robertson wrote:
> Tia,
>
> There's no such thing as "artificial scarcity" in this case. They ARE
> scarce. That's why there's a second market for them.
Horse Hockey. They are NOT scarce. Scarce implies limited quantities.
Scarce implies not available. Scarce implies NO ONE HAS IT.
Let's see, when there are BAGS and BAGS of the "scarce" items, I guess
they aren't so scarce. When the secondary market is FLOODED with it, I
guess the item isn't so scarce. When the price is dropping by the minute,
oops, NOT SCARCE.
Bean Sprouts are not
> scarce. I've never seen a push cart vendor selling them. There are also
> LOTS of people buying beanies at silly prices, but that's their right to do
> so. They can't possibly think that buying a Princess bear is an investment.
> They're still being made, and the company still sells them for about $2.70
> (including pro-rated UPS shipping) Until they decide to move on to some
> other outlet to spend those dollars on that they seem to have more of than
> sense , we will HAVE to wait.
Wow, I agree with that.
>
> While I don't LIKE the practice of selling out the back door, and I don't
> have to support merchants I know who do this, I really can't blame them too
> much. A bag of Princess bears showing up in your shipment is like hitting
> the beanie lottery. A cool $2,000 or so right into the old pocket. Of course
> now, it's a cool $1200, and in a few months, we'll see them on the shelves
> for less than $20, while all the early buyers at $300 are scratching their
> heads, wondering what they were thinking of.
Greed and manipulative exploitation can never be justified in my book.
Sure, the retailer is in it for the money, but really. Ugh.
>
> One of the local Hallmark chains (3 stores) is raffling off 3 Princess
> bears (one at each store) with the proceeds all going to a worthwhile
> charity. That is all well and good, BUT where'd all the rest of the bears go
> (3 stores 12 -36 per)...?
Didn't you hear the <whoosh> as they got sucked out the back door?
>
> While I agree that we should be advocates for kids, I think we adults spend
> too much time on these silly bean bags as it is now <g>. Plus, you can buy
> most (not all, I know) currents you want from secondary marketers for about
> $7 - $10 anyway. No great savings hunting them down all over the city, and
> no standing in idiotic lines, and many times the convenience is well worth
> it.
Day 6 of beanie sobriety. But why not say, you can buy most beanies at
retail for $4-$6, and the new releases are the only ones that are going
quickly? I haven't seen a beanie line in MONTHS.
> >> I am going to play devils advocate here!! I am just raising this point
> as
> >> a matter for debate. I do not support either side in this argument .....
> >>
> >> How are we defining scalping. The way I see it, the people selling Erin
> and
> >> other Beanies at $200+ are only selling these at the current market value
EEISENST
On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Valerie Myers wrote:
> EEISENST wrote:
>
> I don't like the term "scalping" because "nobody is forcing anyone to
> pay high prices" for any beanie or collectible. This is a personal
> choice.
You are right. But it is STILL scalping. It takes two to tango, I'll
agree. But I refuse to buy the "scalpers are providing a service to those
willing to pay" crap. (which isn't what you said, but its' what OTHERS
have said) Scalpers manipulate the market by buying up the product and
then hyping it by calling it 'scarce.'
If people just stopped paying the prices, they would fall -
> but there is always someone who "has the money", wants it real bad,
> doesn't care how much they pay, etc., so what is the big deal. Free
> enterprise is the American way. I won't pay over retail for a current
> beanie, but I will wait for it to be in larger supply at $5.99.
> Eventually they will. I don't think someone who paid $200 for Princess
> is trying to justify their purchase. At the time, they probably really
> wanted her, could afford it and paid the price. So what. Again, nobody
> is forcing anyone to buy and the market is not going to dry up. I won't
> bad mouth someone for trying to make some extra money cause they got
> lucky and there is a market for Princesses and Erins. In fact, if I
> find an Erin today for $5.99, I keep thinking, should I try to sell her
> for $200 and fix the window in the kitchen, knowing the market is there,
> or do I keep the bear cause it is cute and not care about making some
> quick cash. Ty is making millions of beanies. We will all get some
> eventually. Val
>
>
Yes, The beanies will be out there, eventually. Personally, it just isn't
right (the way I was raised) to take advantage of others, regardless of
your justification.
Ty is making millions of them. Ironic that we have to wait for the
SECONDARY market to be glutted before those buying beanies for fun get a
shot at it.
Tasha Yar
On 3 Mar 98 15:59:53 GMT, johnhen...@hotmail.com (John Henry
Sucks!) wrote:
>"Jesus is Alive!" <ca...@intermediatn.net> wrote:
>>I make an exception to defining scalping when it comes to Brittania, Erin,
>>Princess and the other specialty bears. No one has ANY right to complain
>>about the prices of these bears if they are not willing to be patient (VERY
>>patient) to get these bears at a reasonable cost. I am a dealer but refuse
>>to pay more than $100-$120 for these bears because I am NOT willing to sell
>>them for more than $125-$150. That's just me.
>>
>>An example of scalping is on older retireds. Flutter the Butterfly, for
>>instance books for around $800. Yes, I know that's low but if someone is
>>selling one for $5,000+ (I have actually seen this), that's scalping.
>>
>>My $0.02 worth,
>>
>>Doug Litten, General Manager
>>Upper Room Enterprises
>>http://members.aol.com/mysaviorjc/bb/bb.html
>
>
>Wait a minute here. You are saying that if I sold an $800 Beanie
>for $5000 (about 6 times book value) to someone willing to pay that
>much, then that's scalping, but if I (if I were a retailer) sell
>a Beanie that I bought for $2.50 (suggested retail value $5) for
>$200 (about 40 times retail value) then it's okay? Sorry pal, the
>only reason the "book" value of a "current" Beanie is so high is
>because of seedy retailers who are out to make a lot more than a
>buck, and people who are willing to pay those prices thinking that
>they can turn around and make more or who feel that thanks to people
>like you they will never have a chance at one for cheaper. Get a
>clue, you will never be able to defend the high prices here!
Well, said! In addition, who do you think it is that sets the price
for "book values?" It is the greedy scalpers. Many of those numbers
are ficticious . The favored dealers are asked how much are you
charging for "so and so this month"..they answer "x" and right away
that is the going rate. If something can still be had for retail cost
on a shelf then that is the "going rate."
L.A.
Gar Robertson
EEISENST wrote in message ...
>
>
>
>Day 6 of beanie sobriety. But why not say, you can buy most beanies at
>retail for $4-$6, and the new releases are the only ones that are going
>quickly? I haven't seen a beanie line in MONTHS.
>
>
I was in beanie line at Hallmark for new releases less than a month ago.
Wasn't long at all though. Limit of 6 total (including any older currents)
1 each kind per family. They were all gone in an hour, though.
The clerks were also telling customers that Curly and Strut were retired....
The last crazy line I was in early December for Peace bears at the local
Zany Brainy, and it was not handled well at all. They had put the bears out
on the floor, and opened the doors, and the stampede literally was on. I
was about 30th in line, and unless I wanted to knock some people over, or
rip them out of someone elses hands, I had no chance. The limit was 2 per
person, so they were all gone in 10 seconds, tops. I got no bear.
Around here, the beanies still move pretty fast, although not at the speed
they used to except for the new releases.
Cheers!
Gar
KEITH BRYAN
I WOULD NEVER SPEND $200 FOR ANY BEANIE. YOU WERE NUTS. THEN YOU PUT
THESE SCALPERS DOWN FOR DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND YOU FELL RIGHT
INTO THEIR TRAP. I HOPE YOU DON'T DO THE SAME FOR ERIN.
KEITH BRYAN
WOULD YOU BUY OCEAN FRONT PROPERTY IN ARIZONA FOR A LOW PRICE.
THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD AND DON'T KNOW THAT THERE IS NO
OCEANS NEAR BY ARIZONA. HOPE THESE SUCKERS ARE HAPPY WHEN THE TREND
DIES DOWN AND ALL THEY HAVE IS A CHILDRENS BEAN BAG STUFFED TOY.
Adrian Merrington
I was recently in the Fort Myers area in Florida. They had just about all
the current beanies there except bears and the new ones for around $5.00 a
piece. They were in significant quantities and the owner said he ordered so
large that they always had most in stock.
For anyone who's heading to Florida, a trip to Fort Myers beach might help
their beanie collection expand.
Regards
_______________________________________________________________________
Dr. Adrian Merrington Michigan Molecular Institute
Associate Scientist and 1910 West St. Andrews Road
Assistant Research Professor Midland, MI 48640, USA
e-mail merri...@mmi.org Tel. (517) 832 5555 ext 638
http://www.mmi.org FAX (517) 832 5560
_______________________________________________________________________
David Lovegrove
> > There's no such thing as "artificial scarcity" in this case. They ARE
> > scarce. That's why there's a second market for them.
>
> Horse Hockey. They are NOT scarce. Scarce implies limited quantities.
> Scarce implies not available. Scarce implies NO ONE HAS IT.
Horse hockey 2. My dictionary says that scarcity is "insufficiency of
supply." Wow, that exactly describes it. If there were zillions of every
style at every dealer, the secondary market couldn't _afford_ to buy them
all up. The retailer couldn't sell them above retail and hope to get rid
of them all. But that isn't the case! They ARE scarce -- the supply is
insufficient to meet the demand. This true scarcity is highlighted by
retirements of new releases, like Snowball and '97 Teddy.
> Let's see, when there are BAGS and BAGS of the "scarce" items, I guess
> they aren't so scarce. When the secondary market is FLOODED with it, I
> guess the item isn't so scarce. When the price is dropping by the minute,
> oops, NOT SCARCE.
True to a degree. When it was a week before Christmas, and the only thing
my wife wanted in the whole world was a Princess, you better believe they
were scarce. I finally found one, but certainly not at retail! But at the
local beanie show, those common styles that there are bags and bags of are
selling for $4.50 -- BELOW RETAIL! No, those aren't scarce. But the
prices aren't high on those.
> Bean Sprouts are not
> > scarce. I've never seen a push cart vendor selling them.
This is basic economics. There is no demand for Bean Sprouts. Of course
there is no scarcity. When demand goes up, supply goes down. And scarcity
is insufficiency of supply. There is nothing you can do to change
economics; it is the way humans act. I wish the greedy people that are
only in it for money would go away, but as long as there is demand, they
won't. And there WILL BE DEMAND as long as Ty only ships 12 or 36 of a
style to each store. It won't work to just stop buying from the secondary
market, because the supply will still be too small, demand will still be
too high, and someone else will still offer to pay more than you. No
amount of vitriol you send their way will change it.
David Lovegrove
**********************************
Bethany's Beanies
real analysis, not rumors!
http://www.avana.net/~david1
**********************************
msd...@ecuvm.cis.ecu.edu
In article <34fcde45...@news.tiac.net>,
the "book value" or "going rate". As long as there are people out there that
will buy these beanies at the outragous prices ($X000) the book value per se,
will continue to hold and or rise accordingly. (see eBay--there are just too
many on there to say that the prices aren't being paid, just bid. I am sure
some are bid up and never paid, but most probably are.) Face it..there are
just some people out there with more money than sense!! :)
JMHO, Melissa
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Gumby D!
Actually,
ONE sale does NOT constitute MARKET VALUE.
A HISTORY determines market value. If ONE Princess sold for $2,000...the
market value of princess CERTAINLY isn't $2,000.
Beanie Babies will NEVER have the collectibility of a limited edition item.
There is NO sure way to know how many of a particular item has been
manufactured (unless you're Ty)....the numbers could, realistically be in
the millions for any given Beanie Baby. This certainly hinders real,
long-term value.
Another aspect of the equation is that, when the fad is over, Beanies will
be worthless (can anyone say "RUSS TROLLS")
msd...@ecuvm.cis.ecu.edu wrote in article
<6dkdtl$tjq$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Mary
Jesus is Alive! wrote:
>
> MAXB64 wrote in message <01bd45fb$84c5b820$b042...@xep21.dial.pipex.com>...
> >a matter for debate. I do not support either side in this argument .....
> >
> >How are we defining scalping. The way I see it, the people selling Erin and
> >other Beanies at $200+ are only selling these at the current market value
>
> Princess and the other specialty bears. No one has ANY right to complain
> about the prices of these bears if they are not willing to be patient (VERY
> patient) to get these bears at a reasonable cost. I am a dealer but refuse
> to pay more than $100-$120 for these bears because I am NOT willing to sell
> them for more than $125-$150. That's just me.
>
> An example of scalping is on older retireds. Flutter the Butterfly, for
> instance books for around $800. Yes, I know that's low but if someone is
> selling one for $5,000+ (I have actually seen this), that's scalping.
>
> My $0.02 worth,
>
> Doug Litten, General Manager
> Upper Room Enterprises
> http://members.aol.com/mysaviorjc/bb/bb.html
You are entittled to your 2 cents worth. I don't see selling an item
that is not longer available or hard to get for whatever price someone
is willing to buy it for, that is considered free enterprise. However,
it does irratate me to no end that the "flea market group" or "scalpers"
who don't have regular jobs go stand in line for hours and buy as many
as they can afford and prevent me from being able to go into a store and
by them the way I used to. I realize that I could take endless hours
off from work and stand in line, too. It is my choice to go to work and
save vacation time for vacation. It is my choice not to pay $10-35 for
a new release. It is my choice not to buy more than one of each for my
daughter and an occasionnal extra to give as gifts to nieces.
I realize all theses things are my choices and no one is preventing me
from spending hours in line or maxing the credit card buying extras to
sell at and elaborate price, but it still irritates me when I see people
buying so many and I can't get one.
My 2 Cents
Mary
EEISENST
On 4 Mar 1998, David Lovegrove wrote:
> > > There's no such thing as "artificial scarcity" in this case. They ARE
> > > scarce. That's why there's a second market for them.
> >
> > Horse Hockey. They are NOT scarce. Scarce implies limited quantities.
> > Scarce implies not available. Scarce implies NO ONE HAS IT.
>
> Horse hockey 2. My dictionary says that scarcity is "insufficiency of
> supply." Wow, that exactly describes it. If there were zillions of every
> style at every dealer, the secondary market couldn't _afford_ to buy them
> all up. The retailer couldn't sell them above retail and hope to get rid
> of them all. But that isn't the case! They ARE scarce -- the supply is
> insufficient to meet the demand. This true scarcity is highlighted by
> retirements of new releases, like Snowball and '97 Teddy.
And considering that retailers can STILL order Snowball and 97 Teddy.....
And considering TY has the ability to produce (Where they got them, who
knows) oodles of retireds for a celebrity to auction off-they were for the
audience, but they went for auction....
Not scarce, not scarce in my book at least. Is supply below demand? Maybe,
but I doubt it would seem quite as "scarce" or quite so out of whack if
SCALPERS and exploitive entruepenuers (sp?) weren't artificially
manipulating the market.
>
> > Let's see, when there are BAGS and BAGS of the "scarce" items, I guess
> > they aren't so scarce. When the secondary market is FLOODED with it, I
> > guess the item isn't so scarce. When the price is dropping by the minute,
> > oops, NOT SCARCE.
>
> True to a degree. When it was a week before Christmas, and the only thing
> my wife wanted in the whole world was a Princess, you better believe they
> were scarce. I finally found one, but certainly not at retail! But at the
> local beanie show, those common styles that there are bags and bags of are
> selling for $4.50 -- BELOW RETAIL! No, those aren't scarce. But the
> prices aren't high on those.
>
> > Bean Sprouts are not
> > > scarce. I've never seen a push cart vendor selling them.
>
Pat Reskey
Agreed. On any given day, you can find at least 500 listings offering
Princess for auction on eBay. Considering that many of these listings
offer quantities of 3, 6, or full dozen "fresh from the factory -
unopened bags," that's several *thousand* Princesses being added to the
listings each day (estimating that the closing auctions are replaced by
an equal number of new listings, which seems to be the case). I've
personally seen dealers at a show with *many* dozen bags of Princess,
Peace, 1997 Teddy, Snowball, etc., which are thought to be "hard to
find", stacked under their tables, with dozens more on display. These
items are certainly not "rare" or "scarce."
Pat
cwe...@cais.com
>How are we defining scalping. The way I see it, the people selling Erin and
>other Beanies at $200+ are only selling these at the current market value
Scalping is the resale of items outside of the "normal" sales chain on
regularly available items. Scalpers add NO VALUE to the sales chain but rather
purchase items in quantity to create an artificial scarcity of the product in
order to use the laws of supply and demain AGAINST the consumer in order to
raise the price.
The point of this is that they add NO VALUE to the item. The problem is
with tickets, etc. some folks with "add" other items to work around the law.
I recall seeing ads for a local concert that asked $300 per person for a limo
ride and free tickets to a sold-out concert. The limo turned out to be a mini
van; this is SCALPING just as charging over $15-20 for a CURRENT beanie!!!
CW