Painting house interior: layman's questions (cig stains, prep, info, etc)
Sam
undertake doing ours. The original, light green oil paint is 40 years
old and has been exposed to heavy cigarette smoke the entire time. The
walls are mostly done in flat oil, while the trim and baseboard heat
registers are gloss (the kitchen and bath walls are gloss). The paint
itself is generally intact and in good condition, except for the
bathrooms where it is cracking and peeling. The cig stains are visible
everywhere, but very heavy in some locations such as the air
conditioning intake duct on the hall ceiling.
I'm at the most initial phases of researching this project, and wonder
if you would field some Questions:
1) Surface preparation. The cigarette stains will require some form of
treatment. Some local shops have recommended a general cleaning with
non-sudsing cleaner like sodium tri-phosphate or formula 409, followed
by a stain killer primer. How thorough must this cleaning be? Must
every molecule of cig/dirt stain be removed, or will the stain killer
take care of a significant portion of it? I would like to avoid a
monumental cleaning job if possible, but realize that it may not be,
and that the quality of the job is proportional to that of the
preparation.
Must I use an oil based stain killer? One shop said a latex based
product (freshstart?) will be fine on top of the original oil coat.
2) Should I go with a latex or oil paint for the walls and trim, or
some combo thereof? I was thinking of gloss latex oil on the trim,
windows, and baseboard heaters, and satin, or semi-satin(?) latex on
the walls. Everything will be painted the same color, I should note. I
understand that oil is more durable, but wonder if it's worth it,
cleanup, cost, etc. Is it not true that most interiors are done in
latex these days?
3) I was thinking of doing one room at a time, from prep to final
coat and trim. In this way, the entire house will not be turned upside
down; but I realize that this may cause some problems at the room
interfaces--a discontinuity may be visible. I plan on going from on
room to the next with little delay.
4) Are a roller for the walls and brush for trim still the way to go?
I gather this from reading other posts. But that little Wagner sprayer
looks interesting for the walls. I'm I all wet?
5) What is your opinion of Duron paint? I've not seen it mentioned
here where the favorite seems to be B. Moore.
That's it for now. I'm obviously starting from scratch, and the best
thing right now may be web sites or book recommendations that cover
all of these most basic questions.
Thanks,
Sam
Siretta Ireland
Sam wrote:
Sam, You've done your prep homework well. As far as cleaning try to get as
much of the nicotine off as possible. You may try a latex sealer for the
walls but with heavy nicotine stains, the oil sealer is a better product.
As for your wall, once it is sealed , latex is typically the choice of
consumers today as it is so much easier to work with and there are many
good durable products on the market such as Sherwin-Williams Everclean,
which is completely stain resistant. On your trim, you can use any oil
based paint if you want again there are newer acrylics on the market which
work like a latex when applying but once dry perform like oil paint.
As far as application, Wagner sprayers really are not too good for the
inside because of the overspray and some do not handle latex too well. Try
a power roller instead. Wagner also makes these. I'm not sure who you have
in your area as far as a paint store but they could also help you with
your project.
Siretta Ireland, SWP Paints
mfp
#1. Preparation is 90% of the job! Wash the surfaces with a solution of
T.S.P. and water and then RINSE really well. Paint not stick properly to
dirty surfaces.
#2. Patch any holes/imperfect surfaces with a spackle type product.
#3. Sand surfaces with 120 grit. paper and spot prime patches with a latex
plastic primer. Let dry.
#4. First coat entire surface area with latex plastic primer. Let dry.
Sand lightly.
#5. Finish coat with eggshell latex on walls. Use kitchen and bath latex
for areas subjected to moisture .
#6. Finish coat trim/doors with semi-gloss...either in latex or alkyd.
Latex is easy for the home owner to deal with.
Forget the spray gun!!!!!
Brush and roll is the way to go
Start with a small/easy room. You'll either get the hang of it or decide to
hire a professional.
Any questions?...e-mail me.
Good luck
Les Ireland
in my two cents -- to feel important. ;>
I am one of the supporters of Benjamin Moore products. I sell them by
choice.
PREPARATION
Sodium Tri-Phosphate is not the same as Tri-Sodium Phophate. Make sure you
choose the correct one. Tri-Sodium Phosphate is the most accessible, and
probably the better choice. The difference is that TSP is an all-pupose
cleaner & degreaser (it's a strong base). STP is an oil & grease emulsifier
... excellent for oily goo, but poor for dirt and other grunge.
ALWAYS sand with 120 grit sand paper. I know this is a nasty job, and many
paint companies say it is not necessary, but I will GUARANTEE you will have
better results if you spend 10 minutes sanding your walls. It doesn't take
much. Ask your store about a 'pole-sander' ... you will like that tool (!)
Fresh Start is an absolutely phenomenal primer. It will stick to your walls
no problem at all. It is an acrylic super-adherant primer. Once it is dry
on just about ANY surface, it is there for good. Your fingernails are
included ;>.
Top-Line latex products from companies like B.Moore, Sherwin Williams, and
Pratt&Lambert are extremely tough. In many cases, they are actually BETTER
than an oil based product. (no discoloration, no cracking, peeling, impact
resistance, etc). Oil's biggest claim to fame is abrasion resistance ...
scratching ... but even that is being handled well by the mid-shine latexes
now.
Okay, in my house - the one I just bought - I have similar problems (except
smoke stains). I am going to wash the walls with TSP, rinse with a 10%
Vinegar to water solution, sand with 120 grit sand paper, use Fresh Start on
the holes, fill the holes & sand, use fresh start again over the whole wall
(in a few areas anyway and all trim anyway), apply 2 coats of latex eggshell
with a 13 mm Lint Free roller in the low-impact areas, apply 2 coats of
latex pearl (or K&B) in the Kitchen Bath and back-entrance, apply 2 coats of
Latex Semi-Gloss on the trim baseboards and crown moulding.
I'm also gonna do my cupboards and a few other 'special' areas.
I am slowly putting 'how-to's up on my website, if you wanna have a gander,
you can give me feedback. Check it out @ www.angelfire.com/ab2/kaleco ...
if you want me to put anything up there, let me know. THAT GOES FOR
EVERYONE!!! If you disagree with anything I put up there, make sure you let
me know ... I will put a little q&a forum up there eventually ....
Mike for KaLeCo & Sons Inc.
Paul Broussard
Sam <Brand...@writeme.com> writes:
(snip)
>I'm at the most initial phases of researching this project, and wonder
>if you would field some Questions:
>
>1) Surface preparation. The cigarette stains will require some form of
>treatment. Some local shops have recommended a general cleaning with
>non-sudsing cleaner like sodium tri-phosphate or formula 409, followed
>by a stain killer primer. How thorough must this cleaning be? Must
>every molecule of cig/dirt stain be removed, or will the stain killer
>take care of a significant portion of it? I would like to avoid a
>monumental cleaning job if possible, but realize that it may not be,
>and that the quality of the job is proportional to that of the
>preparation.
No doubt about it, heavy concentrations of smoke stains MUST be cleaned and
rinsed. Your last line hits the nail on the head. It comes off rather easy
with the products you mention. It doesn't have to be spotless, but it takes
very little extra time to wash thoroughly rather than washing the bulk of it
off.
> Must I use an oil based stain killer? One shop said a latex based
>product (freshstart?) will be fine on top of the original oil coat.
An acrylic primer should work, but for smoke damage, an alkyd stain blocking
primer like Zinnser's CoverStain or Kilz is the best product to use. When
restoring substrates like yours, a bit of overkill is usually a good idea. The
odor is what will get you. Open up the house, get a draft going while painting
with that much alkyd. Perhaps get a respirator. If the odor is absolutely out
of the question, then settle on an acrylic primer.
>2) Should I go with a latex or oil paint for the walls and trim, or
>some combo thereof? I was thinking of gloss latex oil on the trim,
>windows, and baseboard heaters, and satin, or semi-satin(?) latex on
>the walls. Everything will be painted the same color, I should note. I
>understand that oil is more durable, but wonder if it's worth it,
>cleanup, cost, etc. Is it not true that most interiors are done in
>latex these days?
Yes, most are done with acrylics these days. We are still using alkyds for
trim, but perhaps not for much longer, as a new wave of VOC regs is looming.
Acrylics are fine for the bulk of the house. I'd use a semi on the trim,
eggshell on the walls. Kitchen cabinets, if used a lot, you should consider
alkyd.
>3) I was thinking of doing one room at a time, from prep to final
>coat and trim. In this way, the entire house will not be turned upside
>down; but I realize that this may cause some problems at the room
>interfaces--a discontinuity may be visible. I plan on going from on
>room to the next with little delay.
Not a problem with a good paint store with knowledgeable staff.
>4) Are a roller for the walls and brush for trim still the way to go?
>I gather this from reading other posts. But that little Wagner sprayer
>looks interesting for the walls. I'm I all wet?
Forget the Wagner.
>5) What is your opinion of Duron paint? I've not seen it mentioned
>here where the favorite seems to be B. Moore.
Good stuff, from experiences I've heard from other painters in the states. We
use BM exclusively, you won't find an better lineup of products from top to
bottom anywhere.
>That's it for now. I'm obviously starting from scratch, and the best
>thing right now may be web sites or book recommendations that cover
>all of these most basic questions.
>
>Thanks,
>Sam
From the questions you ask, it would seem you are well on the right track to a
successful project. Good luck in your new home.
Broussard Paint Contractors
friend of Bill's
"Careful, we might learn from this!" (calvin)
Bruce Mencer
Please note the statement below regarding SW Everclean. Not to start a
fight here, but while Everclean IS a very easy to clean, mostly stain
resistant coating, it is NOT a product that I would call durable. It cleans
well if a stain does not penetrate it, but if you need to scrub it, chances
are it will come off the wall. Just my two cents worth.
Bruce Mencer
Summit Paint
Siretta Ireland wrote:
>
>
> As for your wall, once it is sealed , latex is typically the choice of
> consumers today as it is so much easier to work with and there are many
> good durable products on the market such as Sherwin-Williams Everclean,
> which is completely stain resistant.
> Siretta Ireland, SWP Paints
Pat Strong
Bruce.
It is only paint... after all. Can you expect ANY substance that is primarily
composed of a flexible acrylic, a few microns thick, to withstand hard
scrubbing. ANY regular wall paint formula is going to fail being scrubbed with
either a harsh detergent or with an abrasive scrubber.
A "scrubbable" paint, should be able to withstand basic wipe ups and occasional
409 type scrubs. Any penetrating stain, like marker or dye is going to
penetrate beyond what the paint is designed to repel.
If you want a surface that will stand up to real scrubbing, you will have to get
a special coating that is designed for that. Wall paint isn't what you want.
You have to keep that in mind when the sellers are bandying words around like
"stain resistant" and "scrubbable". It is still just paint.
Pat
Les Ireland
|It is only paint... after all
<snip out>
Pat, that was absolutely perfectly stated. I would love to add more, but it
would just be clutter.
Randy Lemmons
they have used it or tested it how can they know it really works.
SW Everclean is stain resistant when properly applied and maintained.
By proper application I mean two coats when first applied as a wall coating.
If you only do one coat and have skips or holidays yeah stains will
penetrate in these areas. As far as cleaning, you should not use an abrasive
cleaner or one with ammonia, which you wouldn't use these on any paint.
Permanent marker will also come off when cleaned properly with a rag
dampened with mineral spirits. We too were a little skeptical when this
paint first came out so we tested it ourselves in our stores. Needless to
say, I believe it out performs any regular wall paint and we have many
satisfied customers. And it is a selling feature as long as we educate our
customers how to apply it and maintain it. Siretta Ireland
SW Manager
John Appel
> > Must I use an oil based stain killer? One shop said a latex based
> >product (freshstart?) will be fine on top of the original oil coat.
>
> An acrylic primer should work, but for smoke damage, an alkyd stain
blocking
> primer like Zinnser's CoverStain or Kilz is the best product to use. When
> restoring substrates like yours, a bit of overkill is usually a good idea.
The
> odor is what will get you. Open up the house, get a draft going while
painting
> with that much alkyd. Perhaps get a respirator. If the odor is absolutely
out
> of the question, then settle on an acrylic primer.
Hi, Paul,
I've used Zinsser B-I-N successfully on some smoke stained rooms, but I
haven't used Zinsser's CoverStain. Zinsser's website gives good info on
both, but they both seem to do the same thing.
What's the difference in the two, in terms of use, cost, or whatever, that
would determine using one of these products versus using the other?
Just curious...always trying to learn more and more.
I've seen many of your posts on alt.home.repair, and I respect your advice.
Thanks
John
Cybe R. Wizard
<japp...@worldnet.att.net> offered:
We use Zinsser B-I-N exclusively for smoke and graffiti priming. It
cleans (very well) with ammonia and doesn't have a brain-damaging
odor. Their CoverStain may work as well and give a better surface for
repainting, but it is just too volatile for me. If you don't care
about your mental health or if you have the availability for *GOOD*
ventilation use the CoverStain.
Yours in color,
Suzie
s...@suziepaints.com
www.suziepaints.com
Paul Broussard
<cyber...@flightofdragons.com> writes:
>We use Zinsser B-I-N exclusively for smoke and graffiti priming. It
>cleans (very well) with ammonia and doesn't have a brain-damaging
>odor. Their CoverStain may work as well and give a better surface for
>repainting, but it is just too volatile for me. If you don't care
>about your mental health or if you have the availability for *GOOD*
>ventilation use the CoverStain.
>
>Yours in color,
>Suzie
>s...@suziepaints.com
>www.suziepaints.com
Well put, Suzie. B-I-N is shellac, alcohol based, Coverstain is an oil based
primer similar to Kilz. Both I find need plenty ventilation, but Coverstain
gives off more toxic fumes.
I wonder on a side note how both primers are dealing with the latest round of
VOC lowering.
Broussard Paint Contractors
friend of Bill's
"Careful, we might learn from this!" (calvin)
warren s
DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
Bruce Mencer <bru...@sssnet.com> wrote in message
news:38D5750B...@sssnet.com...