Replay B12

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Antony Phillips

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Nov 4, 2005, 2:11:37 PM11/4/05
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To: tro...@newciv.org
From: Antony Phillips <i...@post8.tele.dk>
Subject: TROM Replay B12
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Subject: Replay B12
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:08:10 +0100
From: Antony Phillips <i...@post8.tele.dk>
Organization: International Viewpoints
To: tro...@newciv.org


[Note, addresses may be out of date in any reply. Note that Judith
Methven is now on Internet and is on this list
Ant, Trom-l Admin]


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Msg : 103 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Antony Phillips 236/174.10 Wed 07 Jun 95
16:55
To : tro...@netcom.com Thu 08 Jun 95 07:34
Subj : 31st May from Judith Methven
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Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: a...@jacome.ping.dk (Antony Phillips)
Subject: 31st May from Judith Methven


Judith Methven asked me to put the following on the list.
To the newcomers, I would say that Judith is not on Internet. I have sent her
all or most of TROM-L, and she has put on TROM-L (via me) a transcript of a
tape she got from Dennis regarding a question she had. She has never been in
Scn, and got her scn knowledge from the book Excalibur Revisited by Geoffrey
Filbert, communication with Leonard Dunn, and auditing from Leonard Dunn.
Leonard reckons she is complete on TROM (as far as I remember - she has done
all levels).

I visited her and Leonard at the beginning of May (there was a conference in
London). Incidentally I am editor of the magazine International Viewpoints in
which various pieces on TROM have appeared (including an article from Judith),
and any one who does not subscribe can have details from me.

Here is her letter with the beginning cut out:

******************************
The Chimes
William Street
Ryde PO33 3EA
Isle of Wight
31 May 1995

(private letter omitted)

Please could you put this on to the Internet:

It rather astonishes me that some people want to change the original
form of TROM so much and others have derogatory remarks to make about
Dennis. (Internet TROM channel) There can be no doubt that Dennis
'knew his stuff' and gave out something that works for quite a few
people. I do hope that the original form of TROM will always be available,
even if there are lots of additions and explanations at the end. After
all, Dennis did state in TROM that he didn't want it changed. See
'Finale', page 17.

Thank you, Flemming for your comments regarding trying coffee shop
auditing. It made me realize you really have to know your techniques
well (I have work to do here), and fully engage your perceptions. The
other day I did an informal session which went really well. I forgot
myself and just went out to help the other with my knowledge and presence
as much as possible (intuitive work, I guess). It worked for the
other lady and was marvellously energising for me too.

In reply to Flemming's query some time ago about what people do for
RI, this is what I do. I take a scene that I really like and go through
it very intensely, so that I generate strong feelings. This can be
something I have already experienced in the past, something I hope
to experience sometime ahead, or some state that is timeless.

For example, the few minutes after I saw my new baby girl for the
first time. The amazement of how different she was to my first baby,
and the joy when I looked into her eyes and saw 'that she had the
whole world in her eyes' The knowledge that she is more than living
up to that promise and how fortunate I am to have her companionship. These
feelings make me glow with happiness and to me are good RI.

Or, the warm, knowing, relaxed feeling of being in, above and beyond
time, that nothing matters really...its all a game...so relaxing. Or
creating wonderful rainbows, or huge parks full of amazing trees and
plants and colours, or having the companionship of like minded beings,
or talking to the devas. Of learning interesting things, and having
fun. Or being on the cutting edge (for this time, anyway) showing
people how to create their own win/win games, etc.

The bottom line of these scenes is that they create feelings of well
being...a certain state of mind...that's my RI.

Antony, I've signed on for Ulrich's auditing course in July in London. Hope
I might see you there.

Thanks so much for putting the above info on to the Internet and for
sending me a disk with info. I really appreciate it and hope Kim
gets his set up going soon. (He can be a bit unreliable). If you
have time I would love a return disk with update info on it.

After this is an article by Leonard on Responsibility for Ivy.

Very best wishes,

Judith

wp5.1

Greetings,
/ДДД\
| Ant | Antony A Phillips
\ДДД/

Internet address: a...@jacome.ping.dk tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
--- GoldED 2.42.G0214+ -
--

--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303

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Msg : 104 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Ci...@aol.com 236/174.10 Wed 07 Jun 95
16:57
To : tro...@netcom.com Thu 08 Jun 95 07:34
Subj : Survey of results

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Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: Ci...@aol.com
Subject: Survey of results

I would like very much to hear from anyone who has completed any
of the levels of TROM. I would like to know such things as

1) What levels have you completed (if any)?

2) How long did it take you to complete each level?

3) What kind of results did you achieve?

4) Do you still practice the TROM exercises?

5) What tips or suggestions do you have for other TROMmers?

Any other information you care to supply would be welcome. I will
compile a summary of the results I receive and make these
available on this mailing list. You need not give your name, but I
would like to have an identifier so that your answers will not get
mixed up in later versions of the survey.

Bill

--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303

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Msg : 110 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Ci...@aol.com 236/174.10 Mon 12 Jun
95 17:44
To : tro...@netcom.com Tue 13 Jun 95 07:35
Subj : Recent wins
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Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: Ci...@aol.com
Subject: Recent wins

I just started TROM a few weeks ago, and I am amazed at the case
change I'm getting with it. I'm just on Level 2 at this point, but I've
had several sessions where I've gone exterior.

I'm still having some difficulty with the theory. The chart of Postulate
Failure seems difficult to grasp. The valence shifts in particular
don't seem intutive to me.

Can anyone tell me about how long it has taken them to complete
the various levels? I realize this must be different for different people,
but I'm just curious as to the time frame.

Bill

--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303

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Msg : 112 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : "Dustin W. Carr" 236/174.10 Tue 13 Jun 95
06:42
To : trom-l <tro...@netcom.com> Wed 14 Jun 95 05:36
Subj : Re: Recent wins

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Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: "Dustin W. Carr" <dc...@newton.ruph.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Recent wins

The postulate failure chart is best understood by just rereading the
theory from time to time. It is not vital to understand until levels 4
or 5. The transcript from Dennis's tape is also very helpful, as is the
reference that Homer gave. I can make the transcript available to you
when you need it.

I am sure the amount of time spent on each level varies considerably from
person to person. I spent a total of about 7 hours on level 2, others I
know have spent considerably more. (This is not counting RI)
Level 3 was about 30-40 hours, and level 4 about 20 hours.

Level 5 - 80 hours and I am almost done with my first trip through the chart.

Dustin

On Mon, 12 Jun 1995 Ci...@aol.com wrote:
[Edited out, as above]
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Msg : 113 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Ci...@aol.com 236/174.10 Tue 13 Jun 95
18:49
To : a...@jacome.ping.dk Wed 14 Jun 95 07:50
Subj : Formal introduction

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Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: Ci...@aol.com
Subject: Formal introduction

Antony,

True, I rushed right out onto the TROM mailing list, enthusiastically
proclaiming my delight at the unexpectedly powerful results I've been
getting, without so much as passing nod at the trom-l inhabitants :)

I am an ex-scientologist, as you guessed. I was a Qual auditor on
staff at the Detroit org in the early 70's. Only had about 75 hours
done on me personally, mostly R3R and Integrity processing. Never
Did any grades or OT stuff. Got out in 1973, and
haven't been involved in it since. Only a few months ago I found out
about the Free Zone, and I've become very active in it since then.

I write software for a living, this body is 44 years old, and I brush my
teeth regularly -- uppers first, then lowers. I chose the screen name
Ciric (a Yugoslavian name) because someone elsehad the audacity
to use my full name as a screen name on America Online.

All right, I played your game. Now it's your turn to make yourself
known, and I'll know.

Bill Maier

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Msg : 116 of 289 Snt Pvt Loc Scn
From : Antony Phillips 2:235/159.10 Fri 23 Jun 95
08:01
To : J.M...@redes1.unizar.es Fri 23 Jun 95 08:01
Subj : Re: Re Translations - letter from Terry Scott

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=============================================================================
* Forwarded by Antony Phillips (2:235/159.10)
* Area : NETMAIL
* From : "Joachim H. Steingrubner PhD" , 236/174.10 (Thursday June 22 1995
10:13)
* To : Antony Phillips
* Subj : Re: Re Translations - letter from Terry Scott
=============================================================================
Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: "Joachim H. Steingrubner PhD" <j...@newciv.org>
Subject: Re: Re Translations - letter from Terry Scott

(Ant, pls forward to whomever if you want)

1. "The map is not the territory" (Korzybski)

Even if the map is carefully drawn and laid out as it might
be the case with TROM, it is still a map.

2. If a contemporary text cannot be translated into other languages,
that means the author did a lousy job of communicating his
issues.

3. Dennis claims that he created TROM for the purposes of attaining
the goal of 'clearing the planet'. He refutes the approach of
a 'Church' with the same claim.

If TROM is not getting distributed, Dennis' wish would certainly
have no chance of success.

Let's say, TROM has the potential to 'clear the planet'.
If so, it would be highly SUPPRESSIVE to obstruct its distribution.

The latest I heard, Terry sold around a 100 copies of TROM.

How's that for a mass marketing ?

Again, holding back something one believes to be good for mankind
is the worst possible thing a person can do.

4. Ant said, 'a large percentage of the worlds population' does
not speak English. I would say 'only a small percentage of the worlds
population' does speak English, and 'only a VERY small percentage of the
worlds population' speaks English so well that 'key concepts [that]
are sometimes very fine and exact ... expressed .. .very carefully in
English.' can be understood.

5. As regarding Ann Stephens, as far as I know, contacts were attempted
but she never responded so far.

6. Per Terry 'translation [..] would be unethical and illegal'. His
statement, from a legal standpoint, is nonsense.

7. Dennis himself was VERY WELL AWARE of Internet activities, and
he exchanged mail with (at least) me, Homer, and Flemming about
the subject. He did get summaries from the first days of TROM-L
and posts from a.c.t on the subject.

8. Dennis' own responses to questions of Marc and me (both Germans)
showed a complete lack of understanding for languages other than
English. Even to the danger of being rude and disrespectful, he
seemed to not understand basic things about 'language' in general,
hence, perhaps, his position on translations.

9. I'm all for leaving the English TROM untouched. If at all, a
version should be written from scratch that refrains from using
scientologese and that has more digestable explanations.

10. Dennis states, in TROM, that it would be 'quite free' in especially
because of its antithetical character to the 'Church' of which
he was a member for many, many years.
The expression 'quite free' is, of course, semantical nonsence.

11. In his last letter to me, just about 10 days before his 'departure'
he expressed his concerns about translations. He sent a similar
letter to other people as well. If I read it right, his main
concern was the wordings in 'Level 5' and the theoretical addendum.

conclusion
----------

In essence, I'm all for it to create a consensus with Ann Stephens
(if she responds in a timely manner).

So, for all translators and would-be-translators, let's have a moratorium
(at least on the distribution of translated materials itself).

As a compromise, I could envision that TROM Level 5 and Theory Addendum
remain untranslated, and the rest be translated whereby the original
English version would have to be included in the entire package.

As far as the 'distributor' game is going, it would be good to ask
Ann Stephens if the 'profit' of a 100 or 200 copies justifies holding
to it, or if it should be made available on the Internet.

The authenticity of TROM could be asserted by attaching a PGP signature
to it, as, I believe Homer, suggested some months ago.

Putting stops on the distribution of TROM reveals intentions/goals contrary
to Dennis' own goals of 'self-help' processing for 'everybody'.

Or, in other words, suppressiveness.

'nuff zed !

Joachim

****************************************************************
** Joachim H. Steingrubner, PhD TransMillennium, Inc. **
** E-mail: j...@newciv.org CompuServe: 71762,1757 **
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=============================================================================

Greetings,
/ДДД\
| Ant | Antony A Phillips
\ДДД/

Internet address: a...@jacome.ping.dk tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
--- GoldED 2.42.G0214+ -

--
Ant Antony A Phillips
i...@post8.tele.dk
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l,
previous-life-scio and IVy lists


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