Replay B66
Ant Phillips
(2005) list Home page with access to Archives:
http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
--
August 12th 2005
Dear Trommer, We have reached the end of the second series of Replay
(numbers beginning with B) A while ago I did find time and incentive to
prepare one more, so here is is. As with all the TROM Replays, it could do
with further editing to improve readability.
All the best Ant
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To: tro...@newciv.org
Subject: Re: [trom-L] Solo without TROM
Reply-To: Woytek Tworzydlo <woy...@tx.altair.com>
[I seem to have lost the date of this, but it is just previous to the next,
Ant 050812]
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Martin,
I tend to agree with Chris on the solo processing.
While it may be true that with help from a good auditor one can delve
deeper than solo and avoid mistakes, there is no reason that any process
cannot be run solo when the person is ready. And the solo result, while
possibly hard won compared to professional auditing, is likely more stable
and valuable. Just like finding a way out of a labyrinth on your own is
preferable to being led out by hand (at least it is preferable to me).
And Chris is right - pretty much at any stage there is a process that
one can run solo. For example, Pilot's SelfClearing is an attempt to
line up Scientology in a solo-doable way. He even included objective
processing, which Dennis recommends doing with an auditor. Also, it
seems that some people have soloed Excalibur (I am beginning to do it
myself - in fact I am running Life Repair as we speak).
On the other hand, it is also true that at the beginning it is easy to
get in trouble while processing solo and get discouraged (goes for TROM
or any other system). People tend to get ambitious and attack advanced
processing but then drop it when it gets rough (I have done some of
it m'self). I have also seen it on this list, regardless of TROM's
nice lineup of levels and Dennis's admonitions not to jump too fast.
But with some patience, perseverance and being prepared to feel like
sh.. sometimes ;-), most anybody can do it.
My 2 c,
Woytek
[Quotes of earlier mail removed]
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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 10:14:02 +0200
To: tr...@lists.newciv.org
From: Martin Foster <msfo...@lantic.net>
Subject: [Trom]
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Flemming and Bill Meier in one of Trom replays from 1995 got themselves
into a debate about a figment of Ron Hubbard's imagination called
"entities" These are beings somewhat like Leprechauns, who are supposed to
attach themselves to you and your body and generate all sorts of adverse
effects.
The importance of this particular "hidden influence" was escalated by
making their presence "SECRET" and only after paying a large sum of money
and proving your loyalty and honesty would you be allowed to emplace a few
of these creatures in your mind. Then using various very expensive
techniques, one of which is termed NOT's you would be allowed to erase
these Leprechauns.
Stephen's says "It is a law of life that a being is capable of sensing
anything that can influence that being. Otherwise it could not influence
him. There are no "forces of darkness" that you cannot sense; no things
that go boomp in the night that you cannot discover the nature of if you
care to go and take a look.
There are no absolute importances either. There is no class of importances
in the mind that you can point a finger at and say "That is the cause of
all the trouble", without immediately escalating the importance of this
thing, so granting command power over you that could well stick you with it
forever."
Flemming said "But yes, timebreaking is a quite light technique. It doesn't
really address
all the details that can make an incident more sticky." Does he still hold
that view?
He calls it a "light" technique - Why? What is he inferring?
My experience of "Time Breaking" is that it is far more powerful than
Scientology or Dianetic processing and should you want to run out a "pain"
incident on someone, you should rather use "dianetic recall". "Time
Breaking" is only for those who have the "confront" to use it. Recall puts
a degree of time and space between the person and the incident, whereas
Time breaking moves the incident into "NOW"
I find it particularly amusing that people write in to the TROM list to
promote some or other "technique" Why? - Why don't they create an
"Aspectica" or "How to blow BT's" list?
"Dustin W. Carr" in that same post says:
"I don't have any experience with entities, but that doesn't keep me from
asserting my opinion :-).
He continues, "Much is learned on level 5 regarding exactly what other
beings are. (It should be stated that 99.9999% of TROM is level 5.) In
learning to make complementary postulates, you not only free yourself, you
free other beings.
When you stop compulsively playing games with another, then the other being
will stop compulsively playing games with you.
When you stop enforcing others to conform to your universe, then they can
exist at peace with you.
When you realize that you need not hold in your mind the idea that another
is forcing something into (or out of) existence in your world, then you
instantly free that being from its compulsion to do so.
And you do all of this in level 5, except you don't just do it with one
being at a time, you can do it with large groups of beings all at once."
End of Dustin's reply.
I haven't as yet, started level 5, but what I have attained is of enormous
value to me and I can only recommend that one sticks to doing TROM and not
become distracted by various "other" techniques and practices.
At least develop the ability to spot that the game of the Hidden Influence
is basically the game of ‘Must know’ versus ‘Mustn’t be Known’.
Martin
>If you wanted to do something a little more NOT-ish, why not get in
>contact with the entity and get ~it~ doing TROM itself?
>[editor note. March 2002: NOTS is a Scientology technique]
>
> And of course if you think it's important, when you get to L5 you can
> always run goal packages on the subject of entities.
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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 05:35:55 -0700
From: uyt...@rcn.com
To: tr...@lists.newciv.org
Subject: Re: [Trom]
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I agree, Hubbard was still playing games when he died and could not see the
futility of them. So please stop the other crap and just do TROM. It's what
I have said all along since I joined this list in 97. Don't do it half
ass or a little different. Do not mix it up with other practices like
scientology , aspecka, super scio, the pilotology, zen yoga or
christianity .
I rarely post to this list since most of the posts were promoting other
technologies, other practices and attempts to convince others that a
process other than TROM works well. Perhaps the others do work well but
this list is not the place to promote them. Right Ant ?
Do TROM exactly as it is presented in the games manual. It wont take that
long to get to level 5. Study the manual very closely and go through the
levels one at a time..
On the other hand, go ahead and do what you want.
Its your life , mix it up and spin it around, have fun with it !
Randy Nicholson
( the other TROM website )
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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:07:40 +0200
To: tr...@lists.newciv.org
From: Martin Foster <msfo...@lantic.net>
Subject: Re: [Trom] to Nick , The basics
I
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At Monday 18/10/04, uyt...@rcn.com wrote:
>Ive talked about the 4 basics to many of my friends and others who seem
>interested in knowing spiritual matters and the creation of our universe,
>and not one has ever made any sense of it. For if they did, im sure they
>would be here on this list talking about it with us.
----------
It seems that people either gloss over TROM or read it through Scientology
tinted spectacles.
On first reading TROM, I saw time breaking as a variation of recall
processing. Repair of importances I saw as a havingness process. Reading
commentaries written about TROM also persuaded me that TROM was just a
variation of Scientology.
Only after doing a bit of TROM and then re-studying it did I find how
mistaken that viewpoint was.
I had to discard quite a few complexities I had added in.
Some of those complexities originated from this list. There were posts
raving about various other processes. Fortunately the Internet made an
investigation of these alternatives possible. I did a sort of "Process
breaking" :-)
To do this - You take the process being recommended and paste it into TROM.
That breaks it - Just joking!
The complexity of some of the processes that are recommended are awe
inspiring. Some of these processes can usefully be utilized to handle life
traumas. They are as good as Scientology processes.
BUT they are not as good as TROM's "Time Breaking" or "RI" - They are
useful when addressing the trauma of other's.
Has anyone used TROM on others.
Dennis said:
"The data is quite free. I only ask two things:
1) You use the data.
2) When you duplicate the data, you duplicate it exactly. Not because I am
enamored with my prose style, but because altered it could very easily
become just another trap in a universe already abundantly endowed with them."
Martin
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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:35:45 +0200
To: tr...@lists.newciv.org
From: Martin Foster <msfo...@lantic.net>
Subject: [Trom] Definitions Responsibility and love.
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My 17 year old grandson recently asked for a definition of
"Responsibility". As was my wont - I referred him to a dictionary and
asked him to read aloud.
It was amazing the twaddle that was given:
The social force that binds you to your obligations and the courses of
action demanded by that force "every right implies a responsibility; every
opportunity, an obligation; every possession, a duty" snipped:
I then dusted off my Scientology, Tech dictionary and got: "
responsibility: the concept of being able to care for, to reach or to be;
the ability and willingness to be cause. To accept responsibility for
something is to accept that one operated as cause in the matter. It should
be clearly distinguished from such lower-level considerations as blame or
praise, which include the further evaluation of the goodness or badness of
the thing caused."
This was better than the Web dictionary but it was unsatisfactory.
And so I found myself explaining TROM basics. The gist of which is
contained in the following from TROM:
"Responsibility is the willingness to assume causation. A being can assume
causation for anything. The only liability to assuming causation is to run
the being out of games. The only liability to not assuming causation is to
give the being a surfeit of games. Thus, as games become progressively more
compulsive, the willingness to assume causation (responsibility) is seen to
lessen. Unwillingness to assume causation is thus a measure of the
compulsiveness to play games in a being.
Complementary postulates enhance affinity; conflicting postulates lessen
affinity.
Thus, affinity is the willingness to create complementary postulates. Love
is the expression of affinity."
I was quite surprised when instead of thanking me for explaining
"responsibility" he declared, "That's the best definition of "love" I've
heard."
I could only agree. :-)
Martin
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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:28:17 -0700
From: uyt...@rcn.com
To: The Resolution of Mind - list for this book <tr...@lists.newciv.org>
Subject: Re: [Trom] to Nick , The basics
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I used the internet the same way you did a while ago and I still use it
that way today .
This reminds me of a trap I got out of not so long ago. It was knowing my
true nature as a spiritual being. ( the truth ) Having assumed the
consideration that I was a body for so long and being killed as a body so
many times, ( a lie ) it was a big relief to once again know that I am not
a body and there is nothing anyone can do to me as a spiritual being,
although my body and this planet can easily be destroyed. There is no way
to harm something that does not exist in time and space. ME. Knowing my
true nature gave me the ability once again and for the first time in I dont
know how long, leave this universe and return to it at will. I can leave
it to any degree or not know it to any degree as if it was never there in
the 1st place. I can view it as if it were the size of an apple or the moon
and even consider I am a body in it looking out into infinity
Ive used this as a model to blow huge amounts of lies, screens, etc "other
technology " and attempts from others that try to convince me that TROM is
not the way to go and so on.
In short holding any truth next to the lie will blow the lie and vanish it
as long as the truth is known. It matters not who created the lie either.
Including lies to myself.
There is another ability that somehow goes beyond the 4 basic ones that I
thought of the other night . Its in the TROM book.
We are not limited to knowing things that have been brought into existence
We can know anything whether it has been brought into existence or not. But
we must go outside of this universe to know those things that have not yet
been brought into existence..
Its interesting how springing one trap brings another to view But also
makes my power of postulates more effective as I go on. This technology
called TROM is so unbelievable powerful that Im really not sure where it
will take me before my body dies.
Randy
Martin Foster wrote:
>At Monday 18/10/04, uyt...@rcn.com wrote:
>>Ive talked about the 4 basics to many of my friends and others who seem
>>interested in knowing spiritual matters and the creation of our universe,
>>and not one has ever made any sense of it. For if they did, im sure they
>>would be here on this list talking about it with us.
>
>----------
It seems that pe
.....
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lsma...@selecom.com.br wrote:
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Dear Randy and all trommers
I understand your point of view to prevent loss of newcomers. but what I
see is that problem is within others bigger problems with TROM. Let me to
explain myself
1. TROM is an excellent technology for many people, and the best for
me. Even though Dennis was a genius, TROM will not be the only, and will
not be the last great technology.
2. Dennis wanted to spread it out over the world, but he (and us
today) was not effective enough. Then quite a few people uses TROM, and
paradoxically, there are 6 billions needing it right now. We know that
almost every Man in this planet could have huge benefits from using TROM.
3. Just a hundred people read this list, and just a few write on
this list.
4. TROM is almost frozen Nothing can be done with TROM. No
grammatical errs corrections, no updates, no evolutions, no nothing.
5. Ten years ago, when trom list started, there were a hundred
people chatting about TROM. Today some of them were gone, newcomers
arrived, but the list remains with a hundred people, or less. In 2104 how
many grandsons will we have on the trom list? Probably a hundred, again, if
nothing can be done.
Conclusion:
To avoid the total loss of TROM in the future, something has to be done
about TROM. The visible way of TROM is not a way out, but a spinning
circle, where just a few people use it, write about it, agree about it,
disagree about it, and nothing more, even getting huge evolutions using it,
like many of us.
All frozen technology of the past were totally outdated. Evolving
technologies remain evolving.
TO SURVIVE, TROM NEEDS TO EVOLVE!
I think we CAN transform TROM in a useful word wide technology. I find
ourselves too selfish getting so many wins with trom, and doing nothing
about others who are away from TROM.
I propose to create a new and updated version of TROM.
What is this new TROM? Is an evolution of TROM we know today.
New TROM (or what ever else) would evolve the TROM technology from his
state today, towards a better and useful technology.
I propose to install an evolving structure for TROM, which will search for
some Goals with TROM
1. More easy to be understood by newcomers, like Nick
2. More easy to be used by newcomers, even by those called "Black
Five".
3. More pain free to newcomers, even to those living on flying boats.
4. Less dangerous for twitched newcomers, like were many of us.
5. More easy to distribute over the world to get more newcomers
6. More easy to find on internet by future newcomers
7. More easy to get support by newcomers
8. More easy to teach online to newcomers
9. More easy to be researched by newcomers
10. More easy to compare with others technologies, by newcomers.
Right now, newcomers ARE the MAIN objective!
That evolving structure will be formed by trommers, of course.
There are a LOT of problems and difficulties, of course.
But we CAN do something useful, if we try, of course.
We CAN organize ourselves in several ways.
We, here in Brasil, did this kind of work 20 years ago and made a new
Country Constitution. And the results were surprisingly very good! And the
teams were made up all by our politicians. Who knows them knows that the
job was incredible, of course!...:-).
For example, we can set up voluntary teams, each of them would propose
updates on specific areas of TROM, or review other's proposals.
We can use this list to debate themes and point of views.
We must use expert trommers to mediate discussions, establish guidelines,
and support the organization team.
To strength the resulting new TROM we must have contradictory among
opinions. So we need people to challenge every opinion about TROM.
If we get about 10 volunteers we can start the job easily.
If we start the job right now, we can have a organization defined by 2005,
January, and a good result by the end of 2005, mid of 2006.
What do think about? Who of you would like to work on this job? Or have
another opinion or proposal? My proposal has to evolve to survive!
May now be the time, may be not. Who knows? Evolved Men probably knows.
Madruga
uyt...@rcn.com
Sent by: trom-b...@lists.newciv.org
24/10/2004 15:09
Please respond to The Resolution of Mind - list for this book
To: The Resolution of Mind - list for this book
<tr...@lists.newciv.org>
cc:
Subject: [Trom] Re: to Madruga
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Thanks Magruna, trying to prevent or correct possible misunderstanding
(and eventually danger) interpretations. ? Is this your answer. ? If so
then while we are "preventing" something from being known, why not do just
that and keep it out of the universal threads and posts altogether. The
problem is who will moderate the threads ?
What is the purpose of the replays when at some point they will all be
availible to anyone all at one time and place in the database.Ant has been
doing a great job for a number of years keeping it going but how about
keeping it going another way
Any suggestions ?
Randy
I think we should limit the replays to past posts that do not attempt to
convince others from useing TROM Like the one below. We may have more people
interested in useing it if it were not for the letters like the ones below
What does everyone else think ?
Id like to hear from the list lurkers too
Thanks
- Dear Trommers,
Here is a little message from 2002.
In writing to the founder of the list, Max Sandor (AKA Joachim Steingruber)
he wrote me the following:
" I do not recommend any more the 'advanced levels' of
TROM at this point in time as it can charge up GPMs
around the prime polarities 'to know/not know' and 'self/others'
instead of de-accessing it.
Much easier to run PEAT or any other polarity-cleaning method."
I am afraid I have not references for PEAT, but I am sure some one on the
list
will give them to us all.
All the best,
Ant-Admin
******************
From: Brendan Krawage <bkra...@yahoo.com>
To: tr...@lists.newciv.org
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Hi,
Been running RI now, especially this morning when some
heavy mass came up for me. What I find odd is that I
can run RI "Create an importance/have another...etc"
over and over and over and it will always produce
change.
a) is run over and over until there is no more change;
then b) is likewise run. Then a), and then b) again,
until both produce no more change. The creations
should be placed around you 360 degrees spherical. You
don’t have to do anything with the creations; the act
of creation is sufficient. Quality of creation is far
secondary to quantity of creation; abundance is of the
essence.
What is the definition here of no more change? These
questions are always producing some change for me,
changes in what I am aware of, how much mass is in
restim, what my thoughts are on etc... All of these
things are changes. So would no more change in this
sense mean VGI's, feeling good, big smiles and
cognitions on how creating or mockups handle the
necessity to create mockups or the fact that
everything we do from the time we wake up in the
morning is a constant and ever changing creation of
importances.
I am getting the idea here that even things like
processes can be mocked up as importances and its my
own perception of these importances that makes them so
important... WOW!! Is not a good time to move onto
actually doing the session Level 2?
PS
I wasnt sure how long to run the RI and after I had
some good realizations it started to feel a little
like nothing was going on I was just continously
creating things like a random screensaver. Kinda of
irritating!! :)
Brendan
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To: The Resolution of Mind - list for this book <tr...@lists.newciv.org>
Subject: Re: [Trom] RI - Create an Importance...etc
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Brendan,
All things are relative, and so is "no more change". So judge for yourself
whether the RI is "flat" enough. The TROM manual has good pointers.
Generally, it is safer to err on too much (if such thing exists) RI than
too little. There is enough admonitions about this in the manual.
After a while, you will most likely develop a good sense as to how full
your "RI tank" is.
A specific comment: the Scientology-type EP may be a pleasant place to end
off, but does not necessarily indicate "no more change" for the sake of
effective RI. In fact it may require RI to fill out the importances after a
f release.
Generally, I agree with Randy, just do it and observe and fine-tune what
you are doing. I like to read a few paragraphs from the manual at the
beginning of each session. This way I make it through the entire manual
every so many months and pick up some fresh info. Dennis gives enough
guidance for effective TROMing and at the same time enough leeway that we
need to be observant, pay attention and well, take responsibility for our
progress. It has, in the long run, much advantage over rote, robotic commands.
Best,
Woytek.
******************
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:57:42 -0700
From: uyt...@rcn.com
Subject: Re: [Trom] Technical Question
Its all about gettin your power of postulate back again. We've lost that
power in the act of games play through time. Just stay w/TROM and get
it done. Don't be so concerned about "changes" and "RI" and all that.
Just get it done and you will have your results. Set some goals for the
levels 2 and 3 do your RI and move to something else if it seems dull or
too hot.. Read the manual and go after the mind. Get to know it and
recognize it and take control of it. Its taken me a while to get where I
am and I have a long way to go yet I feel. Take the mind apart . Your
get progressively better at it as you do and it will soon vanish leaving
you with a body to control. You'll also be controlling others body's too
if you like. At some point it may even seen like you are playin a game
of checkers against yourself. ( very dull ) not really a worthy contest.
You'll know your opponents next move and may intentionally not know it
just to make it more of a challenge. You'll have that ability that you
don't have right now. You'll be creating thoughts and making others
beleav they are there own thoughts and you'll be a master at illusions
as well. It will be a whole new way of life but it will take some doing
to get there again.
TROM is a solo course so you're on your own. No one can help you . You
got yourself into it and you are the only one who can fix that.
Let me know how its going along the way
Randy
Brendan Krawage wrote:
> *************
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> ************
>
> Sounds scary yet exciting... I'm already feeling like
> I need to be o
snip
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:24:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brendan Krawage <bkra...@yahoo.com>
To: tr...@lists.newciv.org
Subject: [Trom] Level 2
Holy smoke is all I can say at this point... I ran RI
in spades before proceeding to Level 2. I have run
many differnt types of solo processes but this one
kicked in some very very heavy stuff. Very very heavy,
at one point I almost quit but then proceeded to do
more RI which loosened things up a bit. 45 minutes
later in spotting the difference between a PT object
and a past object I felt great, no change, no more
answers just a sense of understanding the difference
between the significances we place on the past and the
present in relation to objects... "Objects" WOW. I am
still working to integrate the process in my head but
I thankfully I am more in present time that I have
been in a long time.
I decide to stop at this point and then continue the
process using the same objects that produced so much
charge in the next session. Step e. on Level 2
tomorrow. Is that OK? Can anyone give me a step by
step of how they ran/run level 2.
In retrospect this process is awesome... I have a
feeling that what Dennis says is true. If one can get
over this level it will be smooth sailing from that
point.
I won't even get into the theory here... i.e.
All games contain conviction. Conviction, by
definition, is an enforcement of knowingness.
Enforcement of knowingness is called importance.
Importance is the basis of all significance.
Essentially, importance is a "must".
Thus
RI
Create an importance
Have another create an importance
Go figure!
Brendan
***************
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:34:03 -0700
From: uyt...@rcn.com
To: The Resolution of Mind - list for this book <tr...@lists.newciv.org>
Subject: Re: [Trom] Replay B27
> More, more on trom by Homer
Everyone please note that the following interpretation of TROM as Homer
Smith
has written here is not correct. He has in fact misunderstood TROM. Please
just
read the TROM games manual for yourself and not take someone elses word for it
Randy
> MORE ON TROM
>
[Snipped - a complete repeat of Homer's writing]
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From: "tramitesdns" <trami...@yahoo.com.ar>
To: "The Resolution of Mind - list for this book" <tr...@lists.newciv.org>
Subject: Re: [Trom] Level 2 and RI
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:35:07 -0300
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brendan Krawage" <bkra...@yahoo.com>
To: <tr...@lists.newciv.org>
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 8:58 PM
Subject: [Trom] Level 2 and RI
> *************
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>
> First, is it possible that most of the session starts
> is RI. I've been running RI for days now and its
> producing some amazing results. I would say that I
> have only really run Level 2 for about 2 hours... The
> rest has been RI.
The same happened to me. I run RI for weeks before even start/try level 2.
Always producing amazing results and cognitions. Even thought it is
aparentlly not the purpose of RI.
I concluded that perhaps I have had the tanck/reservoir of importances so
empty for years that it take me more time to full it again. No wonder why I
was in some way/areas stoped at the side of the road. :-))) and now, mmm, I
will tell soon... many good things happemimg.
Then it was much more quick at the begining of each sesion of level 2 to
full the tanck, just 5 to 20 minutes.
> Oddly enough my perceptions are very
> very strong its like I am viewing my hands and they
> seem larger than life. Having dinner last night the
> folk seemed more real to me than it has ever been,
> fears are blowing to view and feelings which have been
> suppressed are showing up. Shit does TROM kick it up a
> notch or what?
>
> For instance I read the Theory all the way through and
> let me tell you it was a blast. I believe everyone
> should read the theory since it makes the processing
> so much more effective. IE RI "Create something, Have
> nother create something" commands are clearly SD/PD
> postulate commands.
Interesting, I didnt saw it before.
I viewed is as having an effect in discharging the unwillingness to let
others postulate/create.
I mean/supose if we are talking about games conditions, I will be more able
to bring things into existence or make efective postulates if I am
willing/no-resistence to let others make the same.
>I realized from my earlier
> processing that I had lost the ability to
> mockup/create something because it was always about
> running things out which is taking something out of
> existence.
>
> I feel like a godamned newbie to this... hahahahahaha
> :) This has completely knocked out of my self
> righteous solo processor identity.
>
> So please shed some light on RI... I feel like I
> should be running more of the Level 2 commands but the
> RI is keying me out so much that I cant even get
> started really. So do I just keep running RI? Even now
> I cant stop the laughter... "YEP - Line Charge".
>
> Brendan
I am a bit new with trom and I could only say/remember that RI can´t be
overrun.
Good troming!
Horacio
*********
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 17:46:09 -0800
From: uyt...@rcn.com
To: The Resolution of Mind - list for this book <tr...@lists.newciv.org>
Subject: Re: [Trom] Level 2 and RI
Its interesting to see what RI does for others and how its different from one
person to the next. RI for me gets me out of my mind. When I run the levels, Im
focusing on or in the mind ( past scenes ) . Then when Im done with what ever
Im doing, Im still "there" to a degree. Then I run RI and it takes me back OUT
of the past.
Randy
*****************
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 12:36:43 -0600
From: Woytek Tworzydlo <woy...@tx.altair.com>
To: The Resolution of Mind - list for this book <tr...@lists.newciv.org>
Subject: Re: [Trom] Level 2 and RI
Brendan,
Dennis says (and is sooo right) "when in doubt, run RI".
I have experienced similar effects to you when running RI - feeling more
stable, expanded, present, etc. This is great stuff! Besides, you can
always create wonderful things you want in your life and get so much closer
to having them.
Now, I have also erred on doing too much L2 and not enough RI - it would
give me this lowly despair feeling with all kinds of pictures and
misemotions showing up and when I timebreak these out then I feel better
for a few minutes and then bad again. To make things harder, when feeling
like this, creating something feels like a monumental tasks. However, by
now I know this feeling and the little light goes off - do some RI, man, or
else. ;-)
On the other hand, when I run a lot of RI then it will eventually start
bringing up stuff (mostly various resistances and can't do's). After I got
decent in timebreaking, I would just timebreak them quickly on the fly and
continue with RI. From this position (full RI tanks) such timebreaking is
easy - like kicking pebbles out of the way.
I understand that, in spite of wonderful progress with RI, you of course
you want to do some L2, too. A good approach is to always start the
session with RI and end with RI and when something major blows do some RI
right there. For me personally, the average time split in session is about
3 times more RI than TB.
Hope this helps. It is good to hear all your progress,
Woytek.
Brendan Krawage wrote:
First, is it possible that most of the session starts
is RI. I've been running RI for days now and its
producing some amazing results. I would say that I
have only really run Level 2 for about 2 hours... The
rest has been RI. Oddly enough my perceptions are very
very strong its like I am viewing my hands and they
seem larger than life. Having dinner last night the
folk seemed more real to me than it has ever been,
fears are blowing to view and feelings which have been
suppressed are showing up. Shit does TROM kick it up a
notch or what?
For instance I read the Theory all the way through and
let me tell you it was a blast. I believe everyone
should read the theory since it makes the processing
so much more effective. IE RI "Create something, Have
nother create something" commands are clearly SD/PD
postulate commands. I realized from my earlier
processing that I had lost the ability to
mockup/create something because it was always about
running things out which is taking something out of
existence.
I feel like a godamned newbie to this... hahahahahaha
:) This has completely knocked out of my self
righteous solo processor identity.
So please shed some light on RI... I feel like I
should be running more of the Level 2 commands but the
RI is keying me out so much that I cant even get
started really. So do I just keep running RI? Even now
I cant stop the laughter... "YEP - Line Charge".
Brendan
******************
Subject: Re: [Trom] Level 2 and RI
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:44:38 -0300
Woytek.wrote:
> On the other hand, when I run a lot of RI then it will eventually start
> bringing up stuff (mostly various resistances and can't do's). After I
> got decent in timebreaking, I would just timebreak them quickly on the
> fly and continue with RI.
Thank you, your coments bring me some interesting realizations.
It seems like everything else, goes in both directions too.
1 - Doing timebreaking until need RI
2 - Doing RI until need timebreaking
The interesting things about the second are that:
A - the escenes showing up for timebreak seems to have to do directly with
RI, with resistance, charge, etc about creation, postulation, bring things
into existence "to be know" or having "another bring..."
B - one would always have the tanck already full untill the escene apears,
and as you said, very easy to timebreak under that circunstance.
Not to alter the trom process but very interesting indeed.
Horacio
*******************
From: "Judith Methven" <ju...@methven.info>
To: "The Resolution of Mind - list for this book" <tr...@lists.newciv.org>
Subject: Re: [Trom1] Re: Including TROM with other techs.
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:13:26 -0000
Dear Martin
With regard to the below statement, and your comments on it.
With respect, I find it strange that you take statements which you seem not
to like, and then apparently decide that the person who made them is trying
to make themselves the new 'God of Trom', so to speak. I somehow doubt
this. (I didn't make the statement below, by the way, but I have a good
idea who did)
In fact, I personally find some of your messages on this list contain a
degree of compulsion - they seem quite forcefull to me. This is, of
course, only my humble opinion, but I offer it as a response to your
message so that others who read it have another point of view.
Best wishes
Judith
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:msfo...@lantic.net>Martin Foster
To: <mailto:tr...@lists.newciv.org>tr...@lists.newciv.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 8:23 AM
Subject: [Trom1] Re: Including TROM with other techs.
*************
The following message is relayed to you
by <mailto:tr...@lists.newciv.org>tr...@lists.newciv.org
************
----------
>Information technology evolves continuously. And so are all technologies.
>But the frozen or the bad technologies cannot, and die. TROM included.
----------
I personally regard the above as true regarding most technologies I have
come across. But they don't really die - they change, and become sociably
acceptable and the hope they originally promised becomes watered down into
just another hope.
TROM, gives one the tools for evolving the course or route you need to
become free.
Free of what?
Of compulsive games. That's all.
So for you - TROM will evolve - IF you use it - it will evolve for you.
If not - for you it will die.
The person who made the statement I initially referred to is of course
hoping that readers will look to him to evolve TROM. :-)
This cannot be done. Each TROMMER personally must create their own
evolution of TROM and when in L3 or 4, they will know that others "Have to
find their own way out." - There is no other way. No one to say magic words
or give one a magic drug or another magic theory. No GURU who will help
you. You have to do it yourself.
Love,
Martin
*************************
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:56:49 +0100
Message-ID: <41536BE0...@ims3d.cp.tin.it>
From: ash...@tin.it
To: "The Resolution of Mind list" <tr...@lists.newciv.org>civ.org
Happy new year to You all :)
during the use of timebreacking ... I've realized for another time that
... the past don't exist, but that we recreate the past just in this moment.
The past is only a psychological parameter for our personal history. When
we perceive/realize this we could go in and out from the contents of our
mind/memory: shapes, meanings, judgements (our yunior universe) :)
The space is always the same space in our mind and we are IN this space
only NOW. We are putting IN this space the records that we create NOW.
The no-game-condition (IMHO) is when we became conscous-player: when we
could manage our Time and Space from an outer perspective :)
Bye
renato
>-- Messaggio originale --
>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:33:16 +0200
>To: The Resolution of Mind list <tr...@lists.newciv.org>
>From: Martin Foster <msfo...@lantic.net>
>Subject: Re: [TROM1] Replay B36 - Comment Martin Foster
>Reply-To: The Resolution of Mind list <tr...@lists.newciv.org>
> DWL wrote:
>>I have noticed one thing though. It is almost if not impossible to run
>>other practices processes for me anymore. Let me qualify that by saying
>>whenever an incident or question is answered, the scene goes Wham and
>>then timebreaks.
>
>In Scientology the emphasis is on the incident. Run the incident and go
>earlier similar to the first incident on that chain. (Excuse the dianetic
>
>lingo)
>
>With Time Breaking the emphasis is on moving the incident to present time.
>
>Not so much on the incident. Time and space are bridged.
>
>Bridged is not the correct word I need to explain how I see it.
>
>Could one say that time and space are nullified or neutralized?
>
>Martin.
>PS: Happy new year all Trommers. Don't Time break 2005 - Let's give it a
>chance. :-)
--
Ant Antony A Phillips
i...@post8.tele.dk
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l,
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