Enturbulation X3
Richard Ford
unless there is some compelling reason for change, and the trend for
the Church of Scientology is DOWN.
The cults problems have multiplied approximately threefold every year
since the mid 1990's. In other words the collapse of sceintology has
become exponential. The interesting thing about exponential change is
that it appears to most people that nothing much is happening until
everything simply implodes. The collapse of socialism in central
Europe is a good example- years of quiet decay followed by an almighty
bang.
Let us go back just three years.
2007
2007 was a bad year for Sceintology. The worst year since 2006 in
fact...
2007 was the year in which they began to lose their ability to control
the media. On the one hand they succeeded in suppressing the South
Park episode (which is nevertheless available as a Pirate Bay
torrent.) On the other hand their frantic control freakery became the
subject of a BBC Panorama programme- a spectacular own goal.
On the plus side the cult could boast that OSA were truly feared by a
great many people. They had succeeded in destroying the few people who
had ever formed a organisation to oppose them (such as the Cult
Awareness Network and the Lisa McPherson Trust.) Nevertheless they had
failed to stop entheta on the Internet. The cult made great efforts to
appear mainstream by channeling money into the British Labour Party
via one of its front groups.
2007 was the year in which critics moved over to the offensive. Up
until this point the emphasis had always been on defending individual
critics and publicising cult efforts to suppress free speech. The 'old
guard' from the ARSCC continued to picket orgs from time to time.
2008 was the year of Anonymous. A worldwide movement appeared to come
from nowhere to 'raid' orgs worldwide dressed in black suits and Guy
Fawkes masks. In reality Anonymous was not new but simply the result
of everything that had gone before- in particular their hamfisted
attempts to censor the Tom Cruse maniac laughing video.
This was also the year in which the Sea Org began to disintegrate.
Marty Rathburn, Mike Rinder and a number of other top sceintologists
all defect while the remainder live under a reign of terror threat
effectively destroys them. David Miscavige's own niece also goes
public on the abuses going on in the Sea Org.
2008 was also a census year in the USA and from this we learn that the
number of people living in the USA who describe themselves as
sceintologists has fallen from 55,000 in 2001 to a mere 25,000 in
2008. Clear completions and Dianetics book sales are also in steep
decline.
Partly as a result of these factors the CoS fail to oppose Anonymous
until too late. The (now leaderless) OSA send themselves death threats
and make post violent films upon the Internet. These are rapidly
discovered to be fakes and the Co$ is discredited as a result.
2009 was the year in which all of David Miscaviges nightmares come
true. This is the year is which we see the first alternative power
centers emerge. Two main factions are visible. One is centered around
Marty Rathburn and the other around Aaron Saxton. Both of these guys
are former Sea Org members who have their own agenda. These people
have reached out to literaly thousands of former members and Martys
own blog eventually overtakes the Church of Scientology in terms of
hits.
Official investigations, class actions and police raids multiply. Each
of them absorb more of the cults resources so that the cult now
appears to have reached a state of paralysis.
Broadly speaking the problems of the cult appear to have expanded by
about 300% each year.
In 2007 they were manageable and largely self inflicted.
In 2008 they were deeply serious, indicating an organization in steep
decline.
By 2009 the very legality of the cult in France was put in question.
I predict 2010 will make 2009 look rather good for the cult.
LaserClam
> Social and economic change tends to continue in the same direction
> unless there is some compelling reason for change, and the trend for
> the Church of Scientology is DOWN.
>
> The cults problems have multiplied approximately threefold every year
> since the mid 1990's. In other words the collapse of sceintology has
> become exponential. The interesting thing about exponential change is
> that it appears to most people that nothing much is happening until
> everything simply implodes. The collapse of socialism in central
> Europe is a good example- years of quiet decay followed by an almighty
> bang.
>
What problem could they confront?
ho...@lightlink.com
Criticism, founded or not.
Homer
>
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY
ho...@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com
Astrid
> I predict 2010 will make 2009 look rather good for the cult.
DM's real nightmare will happen when they haul him off, as the person
in charge of enforcing past policies of child labor, forced abortions,
operating a ship contaminated with blue asbestos etc.
Until then, I look forward to more people leaving in the New Year,
including another celebrity or two, and many more people becoming
informed before they join up.
ho...@lightlink.com
> Until then, I look forward to more people leaving in the New Year,
> including another celebrity or two, and many more people becoming
> informed before they join up.
I look forward to Tom Cruise joining the FreeZone.
I do not want people to leave clearing behind...
But I would also like to see a joint effort between the
Church and the FreeZone.
A clearing technology Congress.
Slarty
ok. But I can't see that happening, unless my bank has just gotten
too snarky/ I've become prone to demonising due to oh dubs, or some
such. I think the church is for people who are into mind control. @
the same time; what the heck. If "Anything is possible" is not the
correct attitude for a scientologist, I don't know what is.
Astrid
> In alt.clearing.technology Astrid <Astrid7777...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Until then, I look forward to more people leaving in the New Year,
> > including another celebrity or two, and many more people becoming
> > informed before they join up.
>
> I look forward to Tom Cruise joining the FreeZone.
>
> I do not want people to leave clearing behind...
>
> But I would also like to see a joint effort between the
> Church and the FreeZone.
>
> A clearing technology Congress.
>
clear water to catch all the fish. Squirrels are just muddying it up,
in their search for nuts, and cutting into the cult loon's catch.
Speaking of technology, where is all the new technology that was
supposed to spring forth from the advanced Operating Thetan mind? Are
you telling me, you're going to clear the planet with a ShamWow and
ClearSound? If you're calling that pile of meandering outdated crap
called Dianetics, or the e-meter "clearing technology," you'd do
better with a ShamWow.
There is no such thing as "clear" so clearing the planet is not in the
realm of anyone's reality, unless you are brainwashed, deluded or
mentally ill.
ho...@lightlink.com
> ok. But I can't see that happening, unless my bank has just gotten
> too snarky/ I've become prone to demonising due to oh dubs, or some
> such. I think the church is for people who are into mind control. @
> the same time; what the heck. If "Anything is possible" is not the
> correct attitude for a scientologist, I don't know what is.
The Church will molt or go out of business and declare
bankruptcy.
Even christian-inanity helps people more for less.
Slarty
Any1 see what I mean by dogmatic materialism, yet?
ho...@lightlink.com
>> realm of anyone's reality, unless you are brainwashed, deluded or
>> mentally ill.
>
> Any1 see what I mean by dogmatic materialism, yet?
Only BT's bash, the thetan is asleep letting the body
run on bank consciousness.
Ted Mayett
>
> Only BT's bash, the thetan is asleep letting the body
>run on bank consciousness.
>
> Homer
That's a little too, just a little too...
Are we never to take a stance, to never bristle, to never shout or
demand? Just absorb without end like a perpetual sponge?
Maybe say that only BT's are *chronic* bashers. But to bash on
occasion is only to be alive.
In a supermarket line and someone would just bore you to tears with
some commentary. And you tune them out, well that is bashing. Maybe
you change the conversation, and that is bashing.
But to say "only bt's bash" sounds like saying "only teachers can
instruct" "only students can learn" and etc.
Heidrun Beer
<0ltrj5dv0lmjl87sp...@4ax.com>:
Ted, when did you get your last good TR0 BB?
I mean I really enjoy this - it's great entertainment.
Heidrun Beer
www.freezoneauditors.org/auditor/profile/105/
Workgroup for Fundamental Spiritual Research and Mental Training
www.sgmt.at
www.RecastReality.org
ho...@lightlink.com
>> Only BT's bash, the thetan is asleep letting the body
>>run on bank consciousness.
>>
>> Homer
>
> That's a little too, just a little too...
> Are we never to take a stance, to never bristle, to never shout or
> demand? Just absorb without end like a perpetual sponge?
>
> Maybe say that only BT's are *chronic* bashers. But to bash on
> occasion is only to be alive.
Sure, also depends on your definition of bashing.
Real anger tries to be constructive, bashing tries only
to destroy.
You know 'Ron stole everything he knows from someone else, and none
of it works a damn anyhow, and he was just out for money, power and
fame, and the whole thing was a con from the beginning, and he was
secretly part of OTO where he learned how to deceive people etc etc etc'
> In a supermarket line and someone would just bore you to tears with
> some commentary. And you tune them out, well that is bashing. Maybe
> you change the conversation, and that is bashing.
>
> But to say "only bt's bash" sounds like saying "only teachers can
> instruct" "only students can learn" and etc.
OK. I didn't say it, Electra did, and she was referring
to some real chronic assholes who were on a.r.s back in 1991.
They are the people who argue with you, but who have no
honest interest in being wrong.
A meatball who isn't interested in being a dreamball again,
is a basher and is asleep as a thetan, leaving control of
the body to pure bank responses. Since bank is MADE of BT's,
that's probably where Electra came up with it.
Slarty
> Ted Mayett <ars.to.tedmay...@xxmmxxspamgourmet.com> wrote:
> >> Only BT's bash, the thetan is asleep letting the body
> >>run on bank consciousness.
>
> >> Homer
>
> > That's a little too, just a little too...
> > Are we never to take a stance, to never bristle, to never shout or
> > demand? Just absorb without end like a perpetual sponge?
>
> > Maybe say that only BT's are *chronic* bashers. But to bash on
> > occasion is only to be alive.
>
> Sure, also depends on your definition of bashing.
>
> Real anger tries to be constructive, bashing tries only
> to destroy.
Not so. Read SOS. I think your thinking of antagonism.
>
> You know 'Ron stole everything he knows from someone else, and none
> of it works a damn anyhow, and he was just out for money, power and
> fame, and the whole thing was a con from the beginning, and
he was
> secretly part of OTO
Hold it...that 1` could work. Did some1 tell you OTO=bad guys?
where he learned how to deceive people etc etc etc'
>
> > In a supermarket line and someone would just bore you to tears with
> > some commentary. And you tune them out, well that is bashing. Maybe
> > you change the conversation, and that is bashing.
>
> > But to say "only bt's bash" sounds like saying "only teachers can
> > instruct" "only students can learn" and etc.
>
> OK. I didn't say it, Electra did, and she was referring
> to some real chronic assholes who were on a.r.s back in 1991.
>
> They are the people who argue with you, but who have no
> honest interest in being wrong.
>
> A meatball who isn't interested in being a dreamball again,
> is a basher and is asleep as a thetan, leaving control of
> the body to pure bank responses. Since bank is MADE of BT's,
> that's probably where Electra came up with it.
>
Don't let labels fool you Homer(Haven't seen them do so yet, but want
it to stay that way.) Every1s peeps; no matter how far off the mark.
ho...@lightlink.com
>> ? ? ?Real anger tries to be constructive, bashing tries only
>> to destroy.
>
> Not so. Read SOS. I think your thinking of antagonism.
Truth is not determined by Hubbard.
It is true that for a humanoid being, who is reactively at or below
antagonism, he is being out of valence and probably destructive.
But for a being who can maintain his own valence, he is
free to use the tone scale as he sees fit to his advantage.
With anger the issue is class, the attitude that everyone should
live forever and be my friend. At the upper level of anger, class is
maintained, but at the lower level, class is lost, and the chalice is
broken. This results in regret and permanent self punishment.
>> ? ? ?You know 'Ron stole everything he knows from someone else, and none
>> of it works a damn anyhow, and he was just out for money, power and
>> fame, and the whole thing was a con from the beginning, and
> he was
>> secretly part of OTO
>
> Hold it...that 1` could work. Did some1 tell you OTO=bad guys?
Yes. But I have no real clue what they were up to with
their menstrual blood and virgin saliva stuff.
> Don't let labels fool you Homer(Haven't seen them do so yet, but want
> it to stay that way.) Every1s peeps; no matter how far off the mark.
Sure, but most of us work overtime trying to do honest
dharma battle, and the bashers work over time trying to PRETEND
to honest inquiry when their real intention is something else.
Homer
>
>> ? ? Homer
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Homer Wilson Smith ? ? The Paths of Lovers ? ?Art Matrix - Lightlink
>> (607) 277-0959 KC2ITF ? ? ? ?Cross ? ? ? ? ? ?Internet Access, Ithaca NY
>> ho...@lightlink.com ? ?In the Line of Duty ? ?http://www.lightlink.com
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>
>Ted, when did you get your last good TR0 BB?
>
>I mean I really enjoy this - it's great entertainment.
>
As I recall it took me about an hour to beat TR0 BB, certainly not too
much longer than that. But it was all brand new, it took some time to
adapt. But as the Coach, oh my, nobody could really hold up to me. I
could lean into them and using only a quiet soft voice shatter their
resolve, cave them in if I wanted. Pretty much all I ever did was get
them to laughing.
But anybody who would try BB on me,
had to be able to face failure :-))
Ted Mayett
> They are the people who argue with you, but who have no
>honest interest in being wrong.
>
ahhh, we have fun times ahead of us :-))
> A meatball who isn't interested in being a dreamball again,
>is a basher and is asleep as a thetan, leaving control of
>the body to pure bank responses. Since bank is MADE of BT's,
>that's probably where Electra came up with it.
>
> Homer
Well saying "only BT's bash" is kind of overly simplified, kind of
boring in fact. And anyway, I do get the idea behind the statement,
this is true.
ho...@lightlink.com
> Well saying "only BT's bash" is kind of overly simplified, kind of
> boring in fact. And anyway, I do get the idea behind the statement,
> this is true.
For me the issue is intent.
Guy offers an honest fight, and long before the start, he has
already planned to take you down by hidden cheating.
That's bashing.
True scepticism admits to the desirability of eternality and
personal responsibility.
Problem is truth is desirable, thus it is easy to believe without
certainty, and this is right down the garden path to hell.
Thus the world is full of new age cyrstal gazers, who will
believe anything, and are kind of the opposite of bashers.
Only perfect certainties count.
The liars will tell you that dreamballs believe in immortality
because they don't have the confront to face death.
NO ONE ALIVE has the confront to face death.
"Love is all we know of heaven, death all we need of hell" - What's
her name.
ho...@lightlink.com
> Well saying "only BT's bash" is kind of overly simplified, kind of
> boring in fact. And anyway, I do get the idea behind the statement,
> this is true.
Well another way of putting this is that an awake thetan,
who is in valence won't bash and won't commit dharma crimes while
pressing a point.
So I would have to say that the statement is basically correct.
Slarty
wrote:
any documents.
The following is the results of my search of google groups and my
search of the web via google for OTO "Menstrual blood" "Virgin
saliva" :
Suggestions:
- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
- Try different keywords.
- Try more general keywords.
- Try fewer keywords.
- Try your search on all Google Groups.
- Try your search on Google Web Search.
Your search - OTO "Menstrual blood" "Virgin saliva" - did not match
any documents.
Suggestions:
* Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
* Try different keywords.
* Try more general keywords.
* Try fewer keywords.
There might be some of that sort of thing in the gnostic mass, however.
ho...@lightlink.com
> Problem is truth is desirable, thus it is easy to believe without
> certainty, and this is right down the garden path to hell.
If while running,
"Mockup a desirable truth."
the guy says 'well being born against my will and without my
permission, and then living once and dying and that's it bud' you know
you got your hands on a live one.
Yes, only an OT could, would, or should create himself
this way, but once he has done that, he is about as safe
as an asp viper in your bed.
Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
Homer
Slarty <thaddeu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 3, 5:55?am, Ted Mayett <ars.to.tedmay...@XXmmXXspamgourmet.com>
> wrote:
>> On 2 Jan 2010 20:28:28 -0500, ho...@lightlink.com wrote:
>>
>> > ? ?They are the people who argue with you, but who have no
>> >honest interest in being wrong.
>>
>> ahhh, we have fun times ahead of us ? :-))
>>
>> > ? ?A meatball who isn't interested in being a dreamball again,
>> >is a basher and is asleep as a thetan, leaving control of
>> >the body to pure bank responses. ?Since bank is MADE of BT's,
>> >that's probably where Electra came up with it.
>>
>> > ? ?Homer
>>
>> Well saying "only BT's bash" is kind of overly simplified, kind of
>> boring in fact. ?And anyway, I do get the idea behind the statement,
>> this is true.
> Your search - OTO "Menstrual blood" "Virgin saliva" - did not match
> any documents.
> The following is the results of my search of google groups and my
> search of the web via google for OTO "Menstrual blood" "Virgin
> saliva" :
> Suggestions:
>
> - Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
> - Try different keywords.
> - Try more general keywords.
> - Try fewer keywords.
> - Try your search on all Google Groups.
> - Try your search on Google Web Search.
> Your search - OTO "Menstrual blood" "Virgin saliva" - did not match
> any documents.
>
> Suggestions:
>
> * Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
> * Try different keywords.
> * Try more general keywords.
> * Try fewer keywords.
>
> There might be some of that sort of thing in the gnostic mass, however.
--
Ted Mayett
>Ted Mayett <ars.to.t...@xxmmxxspamgourmet.com> wrote:
>> Well saying "only BT's bash" is kind of overly simplified, kind of
>> boring in fact. And anyway, I do get the idea behind the statement,
>> this is true.
>
> Well another way of putting this is that an awake thetan,
>who is in valence won't bash and won't commit dharma crimes while
>pressing a point.
>
> So I would have to say that the statement is basically correct.
>
> Homer
Does this awake and in valence thetan have the ability to bash?
Does this awake and in valence thetan have the permission to bash?
You take a meatball now, some of them bash, some of them don't.
Meatballs are quite flexible in many things. And they do say that
meatballs have the pick of the earth. Some meatballs are great
painters or sculptors. Some write great novels, or are great
scientists. Some meatballs only eat, sleep, and grunt. And a
meatball is only limited by imagination in what they can be do or have
in this world. What was that old cry of the meatball - "get a horse".
And another meatball said I can move this body around using another
method and go faster and longer than a horse, and we have cars now.
But saying that thetans don't bash is basically correct?
hmmmm, wouldn't plowing through the mud, being a meat body, couldn't
that be called Predictability. A sameness to everything, nothing ever
changes. No spontaneity, no surprise, ever. Just plod along, and
even do it lifetime after lifetime, totally Predictable.
Predictable, negates a Game. Let's stand in the typical kitchen and
play a game. We will put an egg in our hand, hold our arm straight
out, and then drop the egg and see if it falls to the floor. Or if it
falls to the ceiling. And we can write down the results as we do this
over and over and have fun with this game. But at the end of a few
days we know we will be up to our ankles in broken eggs while the
ceiling is perfectly clean. This would not be much of a game.
And yet, you would remove the UN-Predictable aspect of a thetan by
saying something like, "this harmonious thetan does not bash". (as a
rule or generally speaking)
And I say this, you find an entity that does not bash, and what you
found is a BT. And please understand, I haven't turned my attention
fully to BT's at this time. From vaguely remembered tech and from
readings on usenet I figure them to be stimulus response mechanisms,
and maybe even lower than that. But of a certainty I feel they would
be Predictable.
And your gods are predictable? Not my gods, I assure you. My gods
are fun loving and playful, and pretty much unpredictable. And not
totally unpredictable either, they don't hurt people or things, that
they don't do. But to bash is not to hurt, it only hurts the lame,
and what need have we of the lame? Better to BB them early on and get
rid of them if they don't have their TR's in yet.
I expect my thetans to bash, and to do it well. And if they won't
bash, then they are not thetans.
I'm a meatball, me, that's right, me, a meatball. And I can bash or
not bash as I desire. My problem is that I'm not that good at
bashing, not right now. But then I make no claim to being all the
meatball that a meatball can possibly be, not at this time. But I am
getting stronger at it. to be continued, this meatball thing.
Ted Mayett
>Ted Mayett <ars.to.t...@xxmmxxspamgourmet.com> wrote:
>> Well saying "only BT's bash" is kind of overly simplified, kind of
>> boring in fact. And anyway, I do get the idea behind the statement,
>> this is true.
>
> For me the issue is intent.
>
> Guy offers an honest fight, and long before the start, he has
>already planned to take you down by hidden cheating.
>
> That's bashing.
>
"Honest fight", sounds like an oxymoron.
At my peak of the game of chess, which was quite high, and during my
traveling days. I would have to go to a college town and engage the
college chess team to have a game. The average person was no contest
at all. Only exceptional players could do 'hidden cheating' and beat
me at the game. And this is what chess is about at the higher levels.
You "suggest" a certain course of action, and then pull some hidden
moves to crush the opponent.
And to the degree of your skill of course, no opponent could
accomplish "hidden cheating" on you on that chess board.
Chess is chess, in the world of live poker is an expression called
"alligator blood". I just looked it up and already it is watered
down, sigh. What it means though is that two people know each other,
are friends. But on the poker table, you play to win. Anything goes,
short of cheating. You bluff, you get your friend on tilt, you do
what you have to in order to win their poker chips. And when the game
is over and you are off the table, you are once again friends.
> True scepticism admits to the desirability of eternality and
>personal responsibility.
>
Sceptics. Wouldn't you rather deal with either meatballs or thetans?
Or maybe are meatballs and thetans too much alike? <smile>
> Problem is truth is desirable, thus it is easy to believe without
>certainty, and this is right down the garden path to hell.
>
> Thus the world is full of new age cyrstal gazers, who will
>believe anything, and are kind of the opposite of bashers.
>
> Only perfect certainties count.
>
> The liars will tell you that dreamballs believe in immortality
>because they don't have the confront to face death.
>
> NO ONE ALIVE has the confront to face death.
>
What would you call those who accomplish suicide?
ho...@lightlink.com
> Does this awake and in valence thetan have the ability to bash?
Yes, and he can bash better than the bashers can.
> Does this awake and in valence thetan have the permission to bash?
Depends on the game he is playing, and the promises he made,
and whether he wants to live in co-operation and affluence with
others, or in ex-co-operation and treason with others.
Honor is the ability to make, keep and trade fair chosen
promises.
Dignity is being the sole operator of yourself.
Now an OT can mock himself up as a criminal, and at game's
start not only has permission to do so, some have a MANDATE
to do so by unanimous decree, because the game needs criminals
as part of its plot.
This in no way invalidates the need on the part of any player
to note who is being a covert criminal and who is being forthright
once the game takes place.
Invite a criminal to dinner, and you and your family will
probably get criminalated.
> You take a meatball now, some of them bash, some of them don't.
> Meatballs are quite flexible in many things. And they do say that
> meatballs have the pick of the earth. Some meatballs are great
> painters or sculptors. Some write great novels, or are great
> scientists. Some meatballs only eat, sleep, and grunt. And a
> meatball is only limited by imagination in what they can be do or have
> in this world. What was that old cry of the meatball - "get a horse".
> And another meatball said I can move this body around using another
> method and go faster and longer than a horse, and we have cars now.
Many of the great producers on Earth were meatballs, but many were
also Christians and others were very spiritual indeed.
> But saying that thetans don't bash is basically correct?
As above, it depends entirely on the game they are playing.
There are beings who know damn well they are dreamballs, but their
GPM role is to convince everyone they aren't.
However THOSE everyone else WANT to be convinced, they bought and
paid for it, 'make me a meatball and I will give you...'
The desire and need to believe in external mest and solidity,
that one is a symbol and not an orientation point is paramount
at 26.0 Apparencies are actuality on the tone scale.
No one ever became convinced of anything less than truth in this
universe without having wanted it.
> hmmmm, wouldn't plowing through the mud, being a meat body, couldn't
> that be called Predictability. A sameness to everything, nothing ever
> changes. No spontaneity, no surprise, ever. Just plod along, and
> even do it lifetime after lifetime, totally Predictable.
Except between lifetimes, but THAT was predictable, NO CHANGE,
so maybe they are escaping a detested immortality by becoming
a meatball.
> And yet, you would remove the UN-Predictable aspect of a thetan by
> saying something like, "this harmonious thetan does not bash". (as a
> rule or generally speaking)
Sure. Me thinks you are belaboring a point to prove
an absolute generalization wrong.
God can act as the devil, and in fact Hubbard said that
God became the Devil after he created the world.
That suffice to agree with you?
THE POINT is not that aware thetans can't or never bash,
but more that thetan's that have created themselves as criminals
WILL bash with great predictability. EVen if one didn't,
who cares.
The PRACTICAL issue, is when you find someone bashing, their intent
is almost assuredly not as they claim it is and thus getting into a
discussion of truth with them will be fruitless and can be dangerous,
because they are often brighter than you.
> And I say this, you find an entity that does not bash, and what you
> found is a BT. And please understand, I haven't turned my attention
> fully to BT's at this time. From vaguely remembered tech and from
> readings on usenet I figure them to be stimulus response mechanisms,
> and maybe even lower than that. But of a certainty I feel they would
> be Predictable.
Remember there are two statements here that must not be confused.
All BT's bash - not true by a long shot.
All bashers are BT's, probably true, good bet on average
across all bashers.
>
> And your gods are predictable? Not my gods, I assure you. My gods
> are fun loving and playful, and pretty much unpredictable. And not
> totally unpredictable either, they don't hurt people or things, that
> they don't do. But to bash is not to hurt, it only hurts the lame,
> and what need have we of the lame?
I disagree, the INTENT of the basher is to hurt, and even high tone
thetans can fall for it and be thrown into doubt. Of course higher than
that, they chose to be dups, but in the practical world, those with
covert mal intent are to be looked out for, noticed and labeled as such.
> Better to BB them early on and get
> rid of them if they don't have their TR's in yet.
Yeah you sound like me.
> I'm a meatball, me, that's right, me, a meatball. And I can bash or
> not bash as I desire. My problem is that I'm not that good at
> bashing, not right now. But then I make no claim to being all the
> meatball that a meatball can possibly be, not at this time. But I am
> getting stronger at it. to be continued, this meatball thing.
You solved the bull bait thing by making sure no one could go near
your infinite charge and sorrow on "live once, die once and that's it
bud."
If you tried, you could probably bull bait yourself into it, and
then show someone else how to flatten it.
ho...@lightlink.com
> "Honest fight", sounds like an oxymoron.
Not in dharma battle or scientific debate where the
intent on both sides to find the truth through argument, proof
and disproof.
> At my peak of the game of chess, which was quite high, and during my
> traveling days. I would have to go to a college town and engage the
> college chess team to have a game. The average person was no contest
> at all. Only exceptional players could do 'hidden cheating' and beat
> me at the game. And this is what chess is about at the higher levels.
> You "suggest" a certain course of action, and then pull some hidden
> moves to crush the opponent.
That isn't cheating. Don't confuse covert intent with cheating.
> "alligator blood". I just looked it up and already it is watered
> down, sigh. What it means though is that two people know each other,
> are friends. But on the poker table, you play to win. Anything goes,
> short of cheating. You bluff, you get your friend on tilt, you do
> what you have to in order to win their poker chips. And when the game
> is over and you are off the table, you are once again friends.
As you say, it isn't cheating.
If the guy cheated, you WOULDN'T end up as friends, and you
wouldn't be willing to play again.
>> True scepticism admits to the desirability of eternality and
>>personal responsibility.
>
> Sceptics. Wouldn't you rather deal with either meatballs or thetans?
> Or maybe are meatballs and thetans too much alike? <smile>
You seem confused and bent on meatball = dreamball.
Meatballs are rolling tumble weeds of charge blown by
their environment. Dreamballs create their environment.
Differentiation is the height of sanity.
>> The liars will tell you that dreamballs believe in immortality
>>because they don't have the confront to face death.
>>
>> NO ONE ALIVE has the confront to face death.
>
> What would you call those who accomplish suicide?
Driven by a more powerful non confront of life.
More to the point would be those that gave their lives in war or
for their children or something, who were yet mortals.
Dunno, I used to quip, 'Many people seek conscientious objector
status to the war because they are religious, I seek it because I am NOT
religious.'
And anyhow its not the confront of death of one's own life that is
important, it is the confront of the death of one's LOVED ONES lives
that is important.
Homer
Thaddeus Slamp
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>
> Remember there are two statements here that must not be confused.
>
> All BT's bash - not true by a long shot.
>
> All bashers are BT's, probably true, good bet on average
>across all bashers.
>
Yeah. It is all Intent. We have no argument on this.
>> they don't do. But to bash is not to hurt, it only hurts the lame,
>> and what need have we of the lame?
>
> I disagree, the INTENT of the basher is to hurt, and even high tone
>thetans can fall for it and be thrown into doubt. Of course higher than
>that, they chose to be dups, but in the practical world, those with
>covert mal intent are to be looked out for, noticed and labeled as such.
>
Nicely put.
<snip>
> You solved the bull bait thing by making sure no one could go near
>your infinite charge and sorrow on "live once, die once and that's it
>bud."
>
And how many times will you die this lifetime?
I've died three times already this lifetime. I know it is three times
because I counted them. One of them I don't remember though, so that
one must not have been too important.
One of them could maybe be called 'melodrama', but I don't think so.
And one of them was real as real could be. That thing you call 0D,
(consciousness) this thing we have. Mine gave up, was resigned to
death, it was over. There was no charge, there was no sorrow. No
calls to god or jesus or anything like that. Only quiet acceptance.
All three occurrences were quiet and peaceful for me. Is this an OT
ability? Or a meatball ability?
ho...@lightlink.com
> I've died three times already this lifetime. I know it is three times
> because I counted them. One of them I don't remember though, so that
> one must not have been too important.
The one you don't remember, is the one you need to run out.
> And one of them was real as real could be. That thing you call 0D,
> (consciousness) this thing we have. Mine gave up, was resigned to
> death, it was over. There was no charge, there was no sorrow. No
> calls to god or jesus or anything like that. Only quiet acceptance.
Acceptance of what? Nothing forever, had time enough for love?
Or acceptance of moving on to the next world and next life.
Or was it so timeless that there was no consideration about future
or death forever.
Do you want to live forever?
> All three occurrences were quiet and peaceful for me. Is this an OT
> ability? Or a meatball ability?
Acceptance at apathy is enforced basic truth.
Apathy can 'accept' anything as it is too dead to care.
It is a deceit.
Most people who have near death experiences claim they were more
alive than ever during the experience.
I would love a complete write up of as much as you remember of what
happened in each occurance.
Ala
<ho...@lightlink.com> wrote in message news:4b41...@news2.lightlink.com...
> Ted Mayett <ars.to.t...@xxmmxxspamgourmet.com> wrote:
>> Well saying "only BT's bash" is kind of overly simplified, kind of
>> boring in fact. And anyway, I do get the idea behind the statement,
>> this is true.
>
> For me the issue is intent.
>
just like 8th grade. he overanalyzed this why?
Florida's forecast: Sunny, high 85F.
Ted Mayett
>Ted Mayett <ars.to.t...@xxmmxxspamgourmet.com> wrote:
>> I've died three times already this lifetime. I know it is three times
>> because I counted them. One of them I don't remember though, so that
>> one must not have been too important.
>
> The one you don't remember, is the one you need to run out.
>
Seriously cannot remember the thing, it must not have been too
important is what I figure.
>> And one of them was real as real could be. That thing you call 0D,
>> (consciousness) this thing we have. Mine gave up, was resigned to
>> death, it was over. There was no charge, there was no sorrow. No
>> calls to god or jesus or anything like that. Only quiet acceptance.
>
> Acceptance of what? Nothing forever, had time enough for love?
>
Acceptance of leaving.
> Or acceptance of moving on to the next world and next life.
>
This is it exactly. Moving on to the next thing.
> Do you want to live forever?
>
You ask as though I, or we, actually had a choice in this???
>> All three occurrences were quiet and peaceful for me. Is this an OT
>> ability? Or a meatball ability?
>
> Acceptance at apathy is enforced basic truth.
>
> Apathy can 'accept' anything as it is too dead to care.
>
> It is a deceit.
>
> Most people who have near death experiences claim they were more
>alive than ever during the experience.
>
Is this fact or fancy conjecture?
> I would love a complete write up of as much as you remember of what
>happened in each occurance.
>
> Homer
You know it would be fun to type it all up. Fun, and refreshing to
know it would be read by you. Let me do just the big one though, and
even then kind of truncated.
It was in training in the marines. We were doing this 'floating'
thing in a large pool, lot's of us at once.
Some few people are 'natural floaters', I forget the percentages.
Some are natural sinkers, and the masses in a body of water will float
just under the surface of the water. The natural floaters can "stand"
in the ocean, and without moving, their shoulders and above float
above water.
I was one of the masses in this floating issue, and we were learning a
swimming stroke that could be done for 24 hours and maybe more if
needed in an ocean or large body of water. It was a kind of
complicated maneuver that did not use a lot of strength or breath, and
this was why you could do it hour after hour without sinking below
from fatigue.
I'm out pretty much in the middle of the pool, we've been out there
maybe going on an hour already. And already I've taken in quite a bit
of water, and already kind of tired. This guy next to me flips out,
he loses it and climbs on me to get out of the water. Which of course
pushes me underwater. And I wasn't ready and took in even more water.
I go for the surface, the air, again he pushes me under trying to use
me as dry ground. This happens a few times, I'm close to panic
myself because I need air badly. At least three times, maybe four
times I try to come up to breathe and this guy always finds me again
and pushes me under again. A big guy also, lot of weight.
As I'm going down yet again I realize I have to get far away and then
come up, and I have to do it NOW. I grew up swimming in the ocean,
I'm a good swimmer on the water and underwater. So I curl up totally,
like an embryo. And I'm ready to fire out at full throttle with my
arms, hands and legs. To propel myself a decent distance, and
rapidly.
But there was nothing left, everything was gone. No air, no strength,
only Will was left. And that just wasn't enough. I remember thinking
something like "bah" or "bummer" maybe, something like that. And the
only thing left was to relax and swallow the water, because there
would be no more air again.
Maybe the exact second before I let go with my breath/lungs I feel a
hand grab my shirt and propel me upwards. And suddenly I'm above the
surface of the pool and hacking water and air. One of the
instructors/sargents had jumped in to save me.
But when I gave up there, was resigned to dying, there was no fear or
concern. It was just time to go bye bye.
Maybe because I've always, here and then and now and then, been
bothered with a sense of timelessness, of perpetuity. But are these
sensations only a vanity, only illusions. Or are they real. And most
importantly, do these things matter?
Ted Mayett
wrote:
<smile>
>Florida's forecast: Sunny, high 85F.
<double smile> :-))