Ken Ogger, "The Pilot", Murdered?
Heidrun Beer
Ken Ogger, known as "The Pilot", a pioneer of the
Free Zone, was found drowned in the pool of his house
in LA on the 29th of May 2007.
His hands were tied with wire and a heavy concrete
weight held his legs down.
The police is investigating.
Ken Ogger was known as the author of analyses about
the Church of Scientology's mismanagement and author
of auditing manuals. After his own wife betrayed his
identity to the church, he suffered a breakdown and
soon afterwards went through a severe health crisis.
On 20th of May 2007 he reported back to his newsgroups
in his old dynamic way. He published a series of texts
in which he told about his physical recovery, about his
plans to become active as "Pilot" again, but also about
the Church of Scientology's attacks on his private life.
Nine days later he was dead.
Heidrun Beer
Workgroup for Fundamental Spiritual Research and Mental Training
http://www.sgmt.at
Gary F. York
I've run several Google searches to find out more about this but have
come up dry; could you post a link to the data?
Best,
G.
Skipper
alex <alexr...@notmail.comdamnspam> wrote:
> In article <oibq53h73nj51mklq...@4ax.com>, Heidrun Beer
> Ironic that a man who would have us believe he was once "god" ( as in "I'm
> mocking it up") would take his own life to further his agenda against the church he blamed for his
> own pain.
Alex, YOU ARE A SERIOUSLY INSANE $CIENTOLOGIST.
Please "word clear Method 4" those words so you can understand them.
"take his own life"?
Can you explain to me how a suicide could tie his own hands with wire
and put on a heavy concrete weight to held his legs down?
>
> Ironic because while he explored his own participation in incident II, the
> church now does not
> have its parishioners do so themselves.
>
> Whos withhold is missed?
>
> What was the role of the current leadership of the church in the long ago
> incident?
>
> Why was ones own responsibility in incident II removed from the level?
>
> Or perhaps it has nothing to do with scientology. Perhaps like one of his
> movies at Nasser
> entertainment, Ken made enemies in his attempts to point at the truth.
>
> Or just that ken could not again be who he was, and who we wanted him to be.
>
> Someone's withhold was missed.
>
> Who's?
>
> alex
information
anyway, the scientologists are so happy when they have gotten someone
killed, if he's an SP declared. They are putting literaly trillions of
postulates to get rid of everyone not yet favorable to their criminal
system! Unhappily for them, these postulates ahve no affect in the MEST
world, contrary to what Hubbard said.
r
Zinj
skipsp...@charter.invalid says...
<snip>
> Can you explain to me how a suicide could tie his own hands with wire
> and put on a heavy concrete weight to held his legs down?
I don't think we know enough of anything to conclude anything, but,
what I find ironic is that a 'man' (or hat) which claims to be a
'private Scientologist' thinks that 'his' first reaction to the
death of another should be to DA him.
Even as a 'representative' of his 'Church', it's bizarre, and,
bizarre as well is the extent the 'Church' has shown itself willing
to go do attack someone who's only apparent crime is to express his
own opinions on the 'dogma' of that 'Church'.
Looks like you and the 'Church' were made for each other Alex.
Zinj
--
You Can Lead a Clam to Reason; but You Can't Make Him Think
navy.intern...@gmail.com
> take his own life to further his agenda against the church he blamed for his own pain.
>
> have its parishioners do so themselves.
>
> Whos withhold is missed?
>
> What was the role of the current leadership of the church in the long ago incident?
>
> Why was ones own responsibility in incident II removed from the level?
>
> Or perhaps it has nothing to do with scientology. Perhaps like one of his movies at Nasser
> entertainment, Ken made enemies in his attempts to point at the truth.
>
> Or just that ken could not again be who he was, and who we wanted him to be.
>
> Someone's withhold was missed.
>
> Who's?
>
> alex
Suicide? With both hands tight together?
O yes!
Like David Miscavige's mother-in-law Flo Barnett,
who died in 1985 of three shots to the
chest and one to the temple from a semi-automatic rifle.
Although she was only 5'3" tall (and weighed only
114 pounds), the examiner determined she shot herself
three times in the chest (with a rifle) before shooting herself
through the head.
What the authorities didn't know was that she had
left Scientology and was associating with
apostates, to the anger of her son-in-law Miscavige.
$cientology kills!
McDermot
>
> Ken Ogger, known as "The Pilot", a pioneer of the
> Free Zone, was found drowned in the pool of his house
> in LA on the 29th of May 2007.
>
> His hands were tied with wire and a heavy concrete
> weight held his legs down.
>
> The police is investigating.
>
Done for a message as well?
A church where ordinary conversational communication
is manipulated so you can't trust someone pretending to be themself.
Where actors are put above ordinary people.
Heidrun Beer
>Heidrun,
>
>I've run several Google searches to find out more about this but have
>come up dry; could you post a link to the data?
>
>Best,
>
>G.
It is a bit early to show up on Google. It is now Wednesday
and the news I read are about the last weekend.
My source is an e-mail that I perceived as authentic because
the writer talks about some things that Ken had on his mind,
and Ken himself wrote these very same things to me in an e-mail
only a few days ago.
They were specific enough to make the connection.
If the story is a hoax - which some seem to believe -
the relief would be so big that it wouldn't bother me
at all to have believed it too quickly.
Ed
"Gary F. York" wrote:
>
> Heidrun,
>
> I've run several Google searches to find out more about this but have
> come up dry; could you post a link to the data?
>
> Best,
>
> G.
Several hours have passed, Google still turns up nothing. I
think this is a troll. Any legitimate person who would know to contact
Heidrun Beer with this story would have had much more info to provide
with it. Neither the source nor Heidrun would have any reason to
withhold the info.
I really doubt OSA would want to commit an obvious murder in LA of one
of their most famous dissidents. This is *not* good PR and would cause
many, many people to look up Ken's story on the net who would never
have known he existed otherwise.
Well, it's been a while since we had a good old-fashioned troll.
Ed
Zinj
<snip>
> Well, it's been a while since we had a good old-fashioned troll.
>
> Ed
Could be a troll; could be real, there's no rush to find out before
forming opinions, but, one thing you have to say;
*Nothing* is too incredible (or incredibly stupid) for the
'Church' of 'Bloodybutt', 'Snow White', 'Freakout' etc.
Nothing.
McDermot
Couldn't they easily arrange some low-life disinterested party to do it?
Ed
Zinj wrote:
>
> In article <465DA252...@aol.com>, met...@aol.com says...
>
> <snip>
>
> > Well, it's been a while since we had a good old-fashioned troll.
> >
> > Ed
>
> Could be a troll; could be real, there's no rush to find out before
> forming opinions, but, one thing you have to say;
>
> *Nothing* is too incredible (or incredibly stupid) for the
> 'Church' of 'Bloodybutt', 'Snow White', 'Freakout' etc.
>
> Nothing.
>
> Zinj
If they were going to go to the trouble of doing a murder with
all the inconvenience and PR it entails, they would have set it up so
that there is an obvious patsy to take the blame, and the patsy has to
be utterly clean of Scn history.
Meanwhile, Heidrun said this happened several days ago and I'm struck
by the utter silence. When people are found murdered in their pool,
the press reports it with the victim's name and someone will recognize
the victim's connection. I'm not seeing any evidence of this.
Hopefully someone who knows how to contact Ken will be able to get the
facts soon.
Ed
barbz
> take his own life to further his agenda against the church he blamed for his own pain.
>
> Ironic because while he explored his own participation in incident II, the church now does not
> have its parishioners do so themselves.
>
> Whos withhold is missed?
>
> What was the role of the current leadership of the church in the long ago incident?
>
> Why was ones own responsibility in incident II removed from the level?
>
> Or perhaps it has nothing to do with scientology. Perhaps like one of his movies at Nasser
> entertainment, Ken made enemies in his attempts to point at the truth.
>
> Or just that ken could not again be who he was, and who we wanted him to be.
>
> Someone's withhold was missed.
>
> Who's?
>
> alex
Now, why would you ASSume Ken Ogger committed suicide, Alex?
Bound with wire and weighted down? Doesn't that seem a tad *elaborate?*
Of course, Scientology "doesn't do that any more," but it seems like
people shouldn't have swimming pools when the cult is involved.
Woof woof, glub glub...
--
"I'm for the separation of church and hate."
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC(wdne)
xenu...@netscape.net
Heidrun Beer
> Several hours have passed, Google still turns up nothing. I
>think this is a troll. Any legitimate person who would know to contact
>Heidrun Beer with this story would have had much more info to provide
>with it. Neither the source nor Heidrun would have any reason to
>withhold the info.
There was more information. But it was a private mail
and I don't have permission to post it.
Heidrun Beer
>Meanwhile, Heidrun said this happened several days ago and I'm struck
>by the utter silence.
I said he was found on the 29th of May. On my calendar,
that was yesterday.
barbz
of witchcraft, but they firmly believed in it. Seems to be a prerequisite.
Ed
They certainly could do that. It isn't simple. If they do
this, they want the patsy to immediately be identified along with his
supposed motive, and they would want the patsy dead so he can't tell
stories about who got him to do it. Now it's several days since the
supposed death and not only is there no news coverage, there's nothing
in the original story about a patsy. The silence is deafening. The
media love to cover murders like this, and where's the story?
Ed
Ed
Ugh, very sorry to hear that :( I must have misread your other
post about when the source said it happened.
Ed
banchukita
Ed, Heidrun reported the death as occurring yesterday.
Reporters typically don't break a story like this until next of kin
are notified.
We can wait and see.
-maggie, human being
>The silence is deafening. The
> media love to cover murders like this, and where's the story?
>
> Ed- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
antisectes
May I differ? In some cases , police and newspapers/TVs are utterly
silent for some good reasons. I don't know if Ken is dead or not, but at
least, we have to find out.
>
> Ed
Hartley Patterson
> take his own life
That's a strange thing to say Alex, especially as Heidrun didn't mention
the possibility and you take it as a 'given'.
> Someone's withhold was missed.
Yours. Revealed, as a remarkably nasty person.
--
Hartley Patterson
www.newsfrombree.co.uk
Lermanet.com
<hpt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>alexr...@notmail.comdamnspam:
>
>> take his own life
>
>That's a strange thing to say Alex, especially as Heidrun didn't mention
>the possibility and you take it as a 'given'.
>
>> Someone's withhold was missed.
>
>Yours. Revealed, as a remarkably nasty person.
"well, that didn't work, ollie"
Arnaldo Lerma
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
WE COME BACK FOR OUR FRIENDS and FAMILY
to get them out while they are still alive!
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speake
If the Borg were to breed with the Ferengi you'd get Scientology!
http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=381
Electronarcosis:
http://www.lermanet.com/emeter/hypnotism-today-1947/index.htm
"it's incredible how much money the hypnotized disciples of a clever and ruthless operator will plead and beg of him to accept from them"
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist4.htm
"Scientologists believe that most human problems
can be traced to lingering spirits of an extraterrestrial
people massacred by their ruler, Xenu, over 75 million
years ago. These spirits attach themselves by "clusters"
to individuals in the contemporary world, causing
spiritual harm and negatively influencing the lives
of their hosts"
[Judge Leonie Brinkema 4 Oct 96 Memorandum Opinion]
29 November 1995
Memorandum Opinion Judge Leonie Brinkema
"the Court is now convinced that the primary motivation..
in suing Lerma, ...is to stifle criticism of
Scientology in general and to harass its critics. "
What do we get from getting people out of scientology?
We create an individual who has become a Houdini of
all mind traps.. folks who won't be fooled again.
People who can DE-program, People who can spring mental
traps..
We create, by freeing someone of scientology, a being
who has the ability to break the strongest slave chains
of all.
Those forged of lies. (c) Arnaldo Lerma
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire (1694 - 1778)
"He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
phil scott
dang, another accident.. ken must have been out walking by his pool
and got his feet entangled in some wire protruding from a concrete
block, spun around tying it in a knot, then fell in the pool and
drowned.
no way in hell could it have been murder, especially since he had
recovered his health from the last assault and was going to start
writing expose on scientology again.
I sure hope this is not another pattern developing, perhaps Doc Wong
had begun to get a clue when hit from behind by the car on his
bike. ..we dont know.
If another critic gets found dead though, by accident, with maybe a
few bullet holes etc... it would be time to start screaming bloody
murder in the press so that if the trend resumes the world will see
the pattern of killings, once again, seen with scientology inc.
Phil Scott
Zinj
@news.west.earthlink.net>, alexr...@notmail.comdamnspam says...
> In article <MPG.20c7bff8c...@news.thundernews.com>,
> Hartley Patterson <hpt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
> > That's a strange thing to say Alex, especially as Heidrun didn't mention
> > the possibility and you take it as a 'given'.
>
> The police say it.
> >
> > > Someone's withhold was missed.
> >
> > Yours. Revealed, as a remarkably nasty person.
>
> uncalled for.
>
> a
They said it to *you* Alex? When?
Before your post?
Maybe you're more a nasty 'Cult' than just a nasty person.
Zinj
@news.west.earthlink.net>, alexr...@notmail.comdamnspam says...
>
> Implying murder, at first notice is not an unweighted act.
>
> alex
I realize it's a lot to ask 'Alex', but, if you look at all the
posts on ARS, or elsewhere, you will find very little knee-jerk
'murder' chanting.
Yet, you want to claim it.
And, *your* claim was immediately that it was 'suicide'. Why?
Did *you* call the police before determining it?
I don't think even the police have done so *yet*, which is wise.
So, you opportunistically (and dishonestly) want to accuse the
'anti-scientologists' of calling 'murder', while you are in an
unholy (and opportunistic) rush to label it suicide.
Hmmm
I'd say the reason is pretty obvious. Your 'Church' could quite
credibly and reasonably be *suspected* of murder; among other
things, because it has 'religious dogma' recommending it, as well
as a history that suggests that it is less than mere 'theory'.
Hartley Patterson
> In article <MPG.20c7bff8c...@news.thundernews.com>,
> Hartley Patterson <hpt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> > > take his own life
> >
> > That's a strange thing to say Alex, especially as Heidrun didn't mention
> > the possibility and you take it as a 'given'.
>
So it would seem - that information hadn't come through on my newsserver,
so it did seem odd to jump to that conclusion without any evidence. My
apologies.
--
Hartley Patterson
www.newsfrombree.co.uk
Ralph Hilton
<oibq53h73nj51mklq...@4ax.com>, :
I have looked into his death.
The case number is 2007-04002
The investigating officer is Betsy Magdaleno.
I spoke with her a few minutes ago.
From the evidence that the police have the case is being treated as a suicide
without suspicious circumstances.
>Ken Ogger, known as "The Pilot", a pioneer of the
>Free Zone, was found drowned in the pool of his house
>in LA on the 29th of May 2007.
>
>His hands were tied with wire and a heavy concrete
>weight held his legs down.
>
>The police is investigating.
>
>
>
>Ken Ogger was known as the author of analyses about
>the Church of Scientology's mismanagement and author
>of auditing manuals. After his own wife betrayed his
>identity to the church, he suffered a breakdown and
>soon afterwards went through a severe health crisis.
>
>On 20th of May 2007 he reported back to his newsgroups
>in his old dynamic way. He published a series of texts
>in which he told about his physical recovery, about his
>plans to become active as "Pilot" again, but also about
>the Church of Scientology's attacks on his private life.
>
>Nine days later he was dead.
>
>
>
>
>Heidrun Beer
>
>Workgroup for Fundamental Spiritual Research and Mental Training
>http://www.sgmt.at
--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
phil scott
> In article <MPG.20c7bff8c4a571f3989...@news.thundernews.com>,
> Hartley Patterson <hptt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > alexrsi...@notmail.comdamnspam:
>
> > > take his own life
>
> > That's a strange thing to say Alex, especially as Heidrun didn't mention
> > the possibility and you take it as a 'given'.
>
>
>
>
> > > Someone's withhold was missed.
>
> > Yours. Revealed, as a remarkably nasty person.
>
>
> a
nah alex...not uncalled for...you have proven to be a duplicious nasty
person in the long established pattern of the usual cult of
scientology op for years now. you spin, you lie, you get vicious,
you trash critics.... now do we see you gloating about Kens murder?
nah...not you mon.
Zinj
@news.west.earthlink.net>, alexr...@notmail.comdamnspam says...
<snip>
> Far from gloating, I am somewhat disturbed by his suicide. I had posted in reply to his renewed
> postings just last week and was eager to see him back.
This makes no sense Alex. Whether from your 'assumed identity' or
your more likely 'real one'.
Why would you be *disturbed* by his suicide, assuming it was a
suicide, when it's part of your religious dogma to 'ruin him
utterly'?
Isn't suicide 'ruined utterly' enough for you?
Do you question whether *your* 'Church' had taken it as a
'mission' to ruin him utterly?
Quite obviously your *own* immediate jumping on the 'suicide'
bandwagon prior to any information was a deliberate effort to
deflect thought of 'Church' involvement (without asking for their
culpability there), but, also, a transparently opportunistic
attempt to claim (falsely) that Scientology Critics were
immediately willing to credit the 'Church' with *this* murder.
You remain disgusting Alex; as does your 'Church'. There's
probably some connection there.
Howard
> > Free Zone, was found drowned in the pool of his house
> > in LA on the 29th of May 2007.
> >
> > His hands were tied with wire and a heavy concrete
> > weight held his legs down.
> >
> > The police is investigating.
> >
> > Ken Ogger was known as the author of analyses about
> > the Church of Scientology's mismanagement and author
> > of auditing manuals. After his own wife betrayed his
> > identity to the church, he suffered a breakdown and
> > soon afterwards went through a severe health crisis.
> >
> > On 20th of May 2007 he reported back to his newsgroups
> > in his old dynamic way. He published a series of texts
> > in which he told about his physical recovery, about his
> > plans to become active as "Pilot" again, but also about
> > the Church of Scientology's attacks on his private life.
> >
> > Nine days later he was dead.
> > Heidrun Beer
> >
> > Workgroup for Fundamental Spiritual Research and Mental Training
> > http://www.sgmt.at
>
> Ironic that a man who would have us believe he was once "god"
> (as in "I'm mocking it up") would take his own life to further his
> agenda against the church he blamed for his own pain.
> Ironic because while he explored his own participation in incident II,
> the church now does not have its parishioners do so themselves.
Ironic? That's not a term I'd have chosen.
> Whos withhold is missed?
Good question.
> What was the role of the current leadership of the church in the long
> ago incident?
Surely a question for law enforcement.
> Why was ones own responsibility in incident II removed from the level?
Pass.
> Or perhaps it has nothing to do with scientology. Perhaps like one of his
> movies at Nasser entertainment, Ken made enemies in his attempts to point
> at the truth.
Is this just a glib and specious distraction or are you just watching/reading
too much cops n robbers stuff?
> Or just that ken could not again be who he was, and who we wanted him to be.
There's always that.
> Someone's withhold was missed. Who's?
<hollow laugh>
Howard
--
hedmundoatmacmaildotcom
barbz
Zinj asks some hard questions.
I doubt Alex will answer.
butterflygrrrl
> Zinj asks some hard questions.
> I doubt Alex will answer.
So do I. After posts like that he usually tends to disappear for a few
days.
Archiving on a.r.s:
alex View profile
(1 user) More options May 30, 8:11 am
Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology, alt.religion.scientology
From: alex <alexrsi...@notmail.comdamnspam>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 15:11:35 GMT
Local: Wed, May 30 2007 8:11 am
Subject: A man who would be god, missed withholds
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- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
In article <oibq53h73nj51mklq4a4t22g06k8cgm...@4ax.com>, Heidrun Beer
<h...@sgmt.at> wrote:
> Ken Ogger, known as "The Pilot", a pioneer of the
> Free Zone, was found drowned in the pool of his house
> in LA on the 29th of May 2007.
> His hands were tied with wire and a heavy concrete
> weight held his legs down.
> The police is investigating.
> Ken Ogger was known as the author of analyses about
> the Church of Scientology's mismanagement and author
> of auditing manuals. After his own wife betrayed his
> identity to the church, he suffered a breakdown and
> soon afterwards went through a severe health crisis.
> On 20th of May 2007 he reported back to his newsgroups
> in his old dynamic way. He published a series of texts
> in which he told about his physical recovery, about his
> plans to become active as "Pilot" again, but also about
> the Church of Scientology's attacks on his private life.
> Nine days later he was dead.
> Heidrun Beer
> Workgroup for Fundamental Spiritual Research and Mental Training
> http://www.sgmt.at
Ironic that a man who would have us believe he was once "god" ( as in
"I'm mocking it up") would
take his own life to further his agenda against the church he blamed
for his own pain.
Ironic because while he explored his own participation in incident II,
the church now does not
have its parishioners do so themselves.
Whos withhold is missed?
What was the role of the current leadership of the church in the long
ago incident?
Why was ones own responsibility in incident II removed from the
level?
Or perhaps it has nothing to do with scientology. Perhaps like one of
his movies at Nasser
entertainment, Ken made enemies in his attempts to point at the
truth.
Or just that ken could not again be who he was, and who we wanted him
to be.
Someone's withhold was missed.
Who's?
alex
alex View profile
More options May 30, 1:28 pm
Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology, alt.religion.scientology
From: alex <alexrsi...@notmail.comdamnspam>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 20:28:47 GMT
Local: Wed, May 30 2007 1:28 pm
Subject: Re: A man who would be god, missed withholds
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In article <MPG.20c7bff8c4a571f3989...@news.thundernews.com>,
Hartley Patterson <hptt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> alexrsi...@notmail.comdamnspam:
> > take his own life
> That's a strange thing to say Alex, especially as Heidrun didn't mention
> the possibility and you take it as a 'given'.
The police say it.
> > Someone's withhold was missed.
> Yours. Revealed, as a remarkably nasty person.
uncalled for.
a
alex View profile
More options May 30, 1:36 pm
Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology, alt.religion.scientology
From: alex <alexrsi...@notmail.comdamnspam>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 20:36:39 GMT
Local: Wed, May 30 2007 1:36 pm
Subject: Re: A man who would be god, missed withholds
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In article <300520070824322268%skipspaml...@charter.invalid>,
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Skipper <skipspaml...@charter.invalid> wrote:
> In article <alexrsingh-3B6F5F.08113430052...@news.west.earthlink.net>,
> alex <alexrsi...@notmail.comdamnspam> wrote:
> > In article <oibq53h73nj51mklq4a4t22g06k8cgm...@4ax.com>, Heidrun Beer
> > <h...@sgmt.at> wrote:
> > > Ken Ogger, known as "The Pilot", a pioneer of the
> > > Free Zone, was found drowned in the pool of his house
> > > in LA on the 29th of May 2007.
> > > His hands were tied with wire and a heavy concrete
> > > weight held his legs down.
> > > The police is investigating.
> > > Ken Ogger was known as the author of analyses about
> > > the Church of Scientology's mismanagement and author
> > > of auditing manuals. After his own wife betrayed his
> > > identity to the church, he suffered a breakdown and
> > > soon afterwards went through a severe health crisis.
> > > On 20th of May 2007 he reported back to his newsgroups
> > > in his old dynamic way. He published a series of texts
> > > in which he told about his physical recovery, about his
> > > plans to become active as "Pilot" again, but also about
> > > the Church of Scientology's attacks on his private life.
> > > Nine days later he was dead.
> > > Heidrun Beer
> > > Workgroup for Fundamental Spiritual Research and Mental Training
> > > http://www.sgmt.at
> > Ironic that a man who would have us believe he was once "god" ( as in "I'm
> > mocking it up") would take his own life to further his agenda against the
> > church he blamed for his
> > own pain.
> Alex, YOU ARE A SERIOUSLY INSANE $CIENTOLOGIST.
Insane? Ken was a long time critic of the church, who claimed to have
been black op'ed by them.
He was not a happy man, he was a man with a litany of troubles of the
human kind. He seems to be
looking for love and not finding it.
Also he had a body of work relating to furthering the intent of
scientology as originally
conceived, that of late was receiving little attention.
And finally he was a great fan of the whole "jesus" times and
lifestyle. What example did jesus
give? Die and be remembered.
Or live with the after effects of a colostomy, failed love, and an
aging body.
No, my viewpoint is different than yours, but reality and I are still
hand in hand.
I was a fan of his, I hope he finds love.
> Please "word clear Method 4" those words so you can understand them.
> "take his own life"?
> Can you explain to me how a suicide could tie his own hands with wire
> and put on a heavy concrete weight to held his legs down?
While I have the imagination and the literary skills to do so, let the
facts come out.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> > Ironic because while he explored his own participation in incident II, the
> > church now does not
> > have its parishioners do so themselves.
> > Whos withhold is missed?
> > What was the role of the current leadership of the church in the long ago
> > incident?
> > Why was ones own responsibility in incident II removed from the level?
> > Or perhaps it has nothing to do with scientology. Perhaps like one of his
> > movies at Nasser
> > entertainment, Ken made enemies in his attempts to point at the truth.
> > Or just that ken could not again be who he was, and who we wanted him to
> > be.
> > Someone's withhold was missed.
> > Who's?
> > alex
Again, whose withhold was missed
alex
alex View profile
More options May 30, 1:38 pm
Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology, alt.religion.scientology
From: alex <alexrsi...@notmail.comdamnspam>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 20:38:47 GMT
Local: Wed, May 30 2007 1:38 pm
Subject: Re: A man who would be god, missed withholds
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- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
In article <MPG.20c767ae4dd6d1a989...@news-server.woh.rr.com>, Zinj
<zinji...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <300520070824322268%skipspaml...@charter.invalid>,
> skipspaml...@charter.invalid says...
> <snip>
> > Can you explain to me how a suicide could tie his own hands with wire
> > and put on a heavy concrete weight to held his legs down?
> I don't think we know enough of anything to conclude anything, but,
> what I find ironic is that a 'man' (or hat) which claims to be a
> 'private Scientologist' thinks that 'his' first reaction to the
> death of another should be to DA him.
> Even as a 'representative' of his 'Church', it's bizarre, and,
> bizarre as well is the extent the 'Church' has shown itself willing
> to go do attack someone who's only apparent crime is to express his
> own opinions on the 'dogma' of that 'Church'.
> Looks like you and the 'Church' were made for each other Alex.
> Zinj
And the anti-scientologists post it as murder, when a simple call to
the police says otherwise?
Implying murder, at first notice is not an unweighted act.
alex
alex View profile
More options May 31, 3:07 pm
Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology, alt.religion.scientology
From: alex <alexrsi...@notmail.comdamnspam>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 22:07:54 GMT
Local: Thurs, May 31 2007 3:07 pm
Subject: Re: A man who would be god, missed withholds
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In article <1180645196.087848.290...@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> On May 30, 1:28 pm, alex <alexrsi...@notmail.comdamnspam> wrote:
> > > alexrsi...@notmail.comdamnspam:
> > > > take his own life
> > The police say it.
> > uncalled for.
> > a
Far from gloating, I am somewhat disturbed by his suicide. I had
posted in reply to his renewed
postings just last week and was eager to see him back.
You phil are the person most associated with less than accurate
pronouncements on this and other
newsgroups.
As for trashing critics, I tend to treat people as they treat me. You
I trash.
and if you meant I am duplicitous, rather than duplicious (sic), that
is a symptom of your
inability to perceive others viewpoints. You go on about Hubbard
forwarding a singlular
viewpoint philosophy, when in actuality it is you who LIVE that.
Only phil can be right. Others lie is your service fac.
I can understand that you believe I lie when i say something you can't
grasp. But perhaps I
sincerely believe it.
alex
phil scott
> > In article <alexrsingh-D43683.15075331052007
>
> > <snip>
>
> >> Far from gloating, I am somewhat disturbed by his suicide. I had posted in reply to his renewed
> >> postings just last week and was eager to see him back.
>
> > This makes no sense Alex. Whether from your 'assumed identity' or
> > your more likely 'real one'.
>
> > Why would you be *disturbed* by his suicide, assuming it was a
> > suicide, when it's part of your religious dogma to 'ruin him
> > utterly'?
>
> > Isn't suicide 'ruined utterly' enough for you?
>
> > Do you question whether *your* 'Church' had taken it as a
> > 'mission' to ruin him utterly?
>
> > Quite obviously your *own* immediate jumping on the 'suicide'
> > bandwagon prior to any information was a deliberate effort to
> > deflect thought of 'Church' involvement (without asking for their
> > culpability there), but, also, a transparently opportunistic
> > attempt to claim (falsely) that Scientology Critics were
> > immediately willing to credit the 'Church' with *this* murder.
>
> > You remain disgusting Alex; as does your 'Church'. There's
> > probably some connection there.
>
> > Zinj
>
> Zinj asks some hard questions.
> I doubt Alex will answer.
Indeed our cult boy Alex wont be answering on topic other than to try
and spin the death to make Ken look bad....an extension of his history
on the NG.
According to published scientology policy, written by L Rong Hubbard,
the cults goal with its critics is to ruin them utterly if possible in
any way necessary, including driving them to suicide..... and there
have been a few, including Flo Barnett the worlds absolute FIRST 4
shot suicide.... thats tricky... and then the two who left with
Quinten Hubbard...dead two weeks later, accidents no doubt, and
Quinten making it in a coma to the hospital but dying the next day
reportedly with needle marks behind his ear.... of course there were
more than a few needle marks on Lisa McPherson as well...not to
mention in L Rong Hubbards ass.
must be just some sort of missunderstanding.... too bad about
Havarith, found boiled alive in a bathtub at the cults fort Homicide
hotel in clearwater.... autopsy photo's showing his skin peeled off
10" above the rim of the tub... that was tricky.
and of course that body found in cult prison garb outside the Hemet
compound in a ravine? and btw, what the HELL happened to Mike
Silverman...poooof. evaporated after expose of the cults credit
card rip offs....no witness there anymore.
Phil Scott
>
> --
> "I'm for the separation of church and hate."
>
> Barb
> Chaplain, ARSCC(wdne)
> xenub...@netscape.net- Hide quoted text -
butterflygrrrl
> If you miss me so much, email me.
>
> alexrsingh (at) hotmail.com
If I promise to miss you, will you go away?
Hephaestus
> In article <1180728994.746457.164...@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> You can use me as an example of the crazy things scientolgists do say and believe.
>
> I give you something to complain about and to respond to and to oppose.
>
> I really post for a very small audience on this newsgroup and your not really it.
>
> But I do enjoy a bit of banter with you as a diversion.
>
> No, I'll be here.
>
> Sorry
>
> Alex
Hmmm, a question that needs to be answered.
Fine, several questions, is the audience you post to silent? Do they
care about you at all? How would you know? What audience? Are they
purely scientologists?
Do they also hate David Miscavaige with a passion?
Homer Wilson Smith
>> Do they also hate David Miscavaige with a passion?
?
I have very little attention on Miscavaige, certainly no hate.
Whatever power he really has, he is still a puppet to people's
expectations of him. That must be an overwhelming burden.
Imagine having to be Mr. Perfect?
Homer
Muldoon
Homer, you need a vacation... or something...
Out_Of_The_Dark
> snip
> Someone's withhold was missed.
>
> Who's?
>
> alex <
Your's alex. Yours.
"When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the
duration of the universe-never permit an "open-minded" approach. If
they're going to quit let them quit fast." HCO PL KSW