The "forgiveness option" according to ex-Scieno Jeff Hawkins
Eldon
in the cult and published it on his blog.
http://counterfeitdreams.blogspot.com/2008/08/appendix-why-speak-out.html
It's all well worth reading. In this recently-published appendix, he
gives his reasons for speaking out. Two excerpts:
----
Certainly there are times in life when someone needs to be told to
"get over it." If your spouse is still talking about "that guy who cut
me off on the freeway" several days later, it's time to remind them to
move on. But we are not talking about occasional rudeness or some
slight, we are talking about serious and systemic abuse and human
rights violations.
One would not tell a battered wife to "forget about it and move on."
At least if one retains the slightest spark of compassion or humanity.
One would not tell a rape victim that she "pulled it in." One would
not tell an aging pensioner who has just lost his life savings to a
con artist to "get over it." One would certainly not tell a Holocaust
survivor to "stop whining and move on."
<snip>
There are people who would like all such victims to shut up about it.
And key among those are the perpetrators. They can only continue their
abuse if no one speaks out. The pedophile priest, the abusive husband,
the sociopathic cult leader, can only exist by maintaining layers of
secrecy about their real activities, keeping up that front of
respectability. They are untouchable as long as their victims keep
their mouths shut. The minute their victims open their mouths, the
light comes streaming into their sordid little worlds. And the victims
aren’t victims any more.
tubby Tanner
"Eldon" <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:caab541d-4df9-407c...@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Jeff is a former Scientologist who wrote a book about his experiences
in the cult and published it on his blog.
http://counterfeitdreams.blogspot.com/2008/08/appendix-why-speak-out.html
It's all well worth reading. In this recently-published appendix, he
gives his reasons for speaking out. Two excerpts:
----
Certainly there are times in life when someone needs to be told to
"get over it." If your spouse is still talking about "that guy who cut
me off on the freeway" several days later, it's time to remind them to
move on. But we are not talking about occasional rudeness or some
slight, we are talking about serious and systemic abuse and human
rights violations.
One would not tell a battered wife to "forget about it and move on."
At least if one retains the slightest spark of compassion or humanity.
One would not tell a rape victim that she "pulled it in." One would
not tell an aging pensioner who has just lost his life savings to a
con artist to "get over it." One would certainly not tell a Holocaust
survivor to "stop whining and move on."
Eldon thats a fair assesment.
Life has kicked these people in the teeth.
How would you suggest they repair the damage that has been done to them
so they can get their life back on track???????
Just curious about your approach to this difficult and painful situation so
many people find themselves in.
Cheers bruno
Eldon
> "Eldon" <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:caab541d-4df9-407c...@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Jeff is a former Scientologist who wrote a book about his experiences
>
> It's all well worth reading. In this recently-published appendix, he
> gives his reasons for speaking out. Two excerpts:
> ----
> Certainly there are times in life when someone needs to be told to
> "get over it." If your spouse is still talking about "that guy who cut
> me off on the freeway" several days later, it's time to remind them to
> move on. But we are not talking about occasional rudeness or some
> slight, we are talking about serious and systemic abuse and human
> rights violations.
>
> One would not tell a battered wife to "forget about it and move on."
> At least if one retains the slightest spark of compassion or humanity.
> One would not tell a rape victim that she "pulled it in." One would
> not tell an aging pensioner who has just lost his life savings to a
> con artist to "get over it." One would certainly not tell a Holocaust
> survivor to "stop whining and move on."
>
> Eldon thats a fair assesment.
> Life has kicked these people in the teeth.
> How would you suggest they repair the damage that has been done to them
> so they can get their life back on track???????
> Just curious about your approach to this difficult and painful situation so
> many people find themselves in.
Jeff is using analogies here to describe possible reasons why many
people who leave Scientology keep quiet about the abuses that go on.
One reason more don't speak out is that it's a "high crime" to
publicly depart. So they might fair game you and probably try to split
up your family if any of them are still involved.
Seems to me he implies that it's a duty to warn other people and I
think in his case, he's found it therapeutic to do so -- in the same
way a battered wife might get some personal benefit from working to
prevent spousal abuse.
Poisoned Mind
The paradox about this entire realm of Guru teaching and the sheep
followers,
is that the higher courses involve the individual digging through his
consciousness
for all those SECRETS, meanwhile the leaders are full of secrets, that
the
unsuspecting newbie AVATAR, will never get a grasp of because they
are
continuously being confused by being sent on walks for atonement, or
other
ways of making them WRONG.
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
of course that isn't a game at all is it? People desperate for
approval.
I cannot fathom anyone paying in these times to continue such a mind
boggling farce, but of course donkeys follow carrots too.
Eldon
Hahaha! Great post. However, I suspect it's slim pickins for Hari
since the economy tanked. Being subjected to an expensive cultist
guilt trip becomes a luxury when people are trying to hang onto the
roof over their heads.
P.S. Watch Cyndy (aka Grace) accuse you of being me, and me of being
you, I guess the poor, ignorant cow has her identies mixed up since
she read the Wizard materials.
Poisoned Mind
Chasing Gurus as a pastime can be entertaining in a perverse sort of
way,
but being guilt tripped into using cash in exchange for quasi
enlightenment training,
is criminal. Loosing critical thinking by being brainwashed into
believing you are HAPPY 2 B
anything you want, IS the personification of delusion!
All Hail Hari!!! Bringer of the enlightened Planet..one would tend to
think (er, no FEEL, uh no that would
be BELIEVE!) with all these Enlightened....
Avatars, Masters and Wizards about...
things would be ever so wonderful, right?
P.S. But aren't we ONE, ultimate oneness Eldon? Silly humans, we think
we are individuals!
psri...@gmail.com
> All Hail Hari!!! Bringer of the enlightened Planet..one would tend to
> think (er, no FEEL, uh no that would
> be BELIEVE!) with all these Enlightened....
> Avatars, Masters and Wizards about...
> things would be ever so wonderful, right?
Why do you think Palmer's office needs to occassional rally their own
members and spam these boards with glossy song and dance like
"EVERYTHING'S ALRIGHT!"
and
"THINGS ARE GETTING BETTER!"
or whatever denial-instigated damage control their AV department is
concocting these days
It's the Iraqi minister of information all over again. Or the Scio-
Avatar pet phrase "WE'RE GROWING BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS!" So now Wayne
says there could be a COUPLE hundred thousand Avatars? By their own
published numbers the rate of growth hasn't changed since it started,
understanding they count everyone who EVER took it, ignoring the vast
majority of those who are over it one way or another, regretting their
manipulation-enduced testimonials. Mathematically, they have an
average of about five thousand new marks a year, not enough to keep a
restaurant in business. Then again their meal ticket is a hefty sum.
Has the outside "non-avatar-human" world given a damn? The total
number of Palmer's selfpublished books not bought by culties would
probably fit in those mythological three filing cabinets in Florida.
For comparison, how many books about Harry Palmer the fictional spy do
you think have been sold over a similar period of time? He will never
appear in any encyplopedic who's who in any library, ever, unlike say
the golf pro Arnold Palmer, or even obscure non-household names. He
simply didn't achieve anything noteworthy his whole life.
When you aren't involved and can step back clearly, the whole thing is
laughable if it wasn't so harmful. A small but potent injustice that
it's good to know a few people wont leave unaddressed.
Eldon
> On Oct 19, 4:00 pm, Poisoned Mind <Wizardsqw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > All Hail Hari!!! Bringer of the enlightened Planet..one would tend to
> > think (er, no FEEL, uh no that would
> > be BELIEVE!) with all these Enlightened....
> > Avatars, Masters and Wizards about...
> > things would be ever so wonderful, right?
>
> Why do you think Palmer's office needs to occassional rally their own
> members and spam these boards with glossy song and dance like
>
> "EVERYTHING'S ALRIGHT!"
>
> and
>
> "THINGS ARE GETTING BETTER!"
>
> or whatever denial-instigated damage control their AV department is
> concocting these days
>
> It's the Iraqi minister of information all over again. Or the Scio-
> Avatar pet phrase "WE'RE GROWING BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS!" So now Wayne
> says there could be a COUPLE hundred thousand Avatars? By their own
> published numbers the rate of growth hasn't changed since it started,
> understanding they count everyone who EVER took it, ignoring the vast
> majority of those who are over it one way or another, regretting their
> manipulation-enduced testimonials. Mathematically, they have an
> average of about five thousand new marks a year, not enough to keep a
> restaurant in business. Then again their meal ticket is a hefty sum.
Maybe the number of new marks approached 5,000 a year at the height of
Avatar's popularity, but I think the figures have declined
significantly over the past several years if not as precariously as
Scientology's "growth stats."
Back in the mid-1990s, Hari was putting out six issues of the Avatar
Journal per year, and sending them to big chunks or the Nightingale-
Conant mailing list.
Just recently, he announced that Star's Edge was "going green" and
would only publish an online newsletter and podcasts. You may have
noticed that not a lot of real magazines have stopped publishing print
editions. They have sites online (with advertising), but the
newsstands are still full of paper copies.
Some people who pulled out of the basic Avatar course and got refunds
told me that MOST of the attendees are interning Masters and
reviewers. Add to that the fact that those class photos are taken at
the end of the Resurfacing weekend before those people leave. For a
reasonable estimate of how many new marks finish Part III these days,
check out the pix at www.internationalavatarcourse.com/ and divide by
four.
Eldon
If I thought Hari truly believed that New Age claptrap, I would at
least respect his right to be deluded. But when he turns around and
starts talking about evil, psychotic "bashers" who are trying to
destroy his cult movement, I can only conclude that he's every bit as
hypocritical as his role model, ElRon.
waynemcmahon
psychotic bastards. And I got reinforcement from the Federal Judges who
state that YOU are motivated by malice.
You've stated that your intention is to destroy Harry and Avatar. But
you say you'd respect him more if he was stupid enough not to notice.
Gee. Silly old me for thinking you're a fucking psychotic. Do you
think I'd be happier if I played dumb and pretended that you're a
good-hearted bloke doing a public service?
By the way, those numbers of students you manufacture are more than a
decade out of date.
----------------------------