Celebrities and intact sons
CiberCrooz
coonie
I know of one who just smiled and said her son cried at circumcision..
Its that bitch Cindy.. something.. On Good Morning America.
When humans learn something or develop a prejudice it takes hundreds of
exposures to its opposite to change. That is one reason circ is so
entrenched. Humans have little capacity for relearning something for
which they've already established an opinion.
I should know this as a special educator.
--
NOCIRCVT
http://www.uvm.edu/~gdavis/nocircvt.htm
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Ma...@thelabyrinth.org
Forrest Tucker also left his son uncut.
coonie
Are you sure Martin Sheen and sons are NOT cut. They've been listed as
all circumcised. Somewhere there's a list of cut and uncut celebrities.
I just found the John Denver autopsy so perhaps this will confirm or
deny his supposed intact status.
Vince Foster was circumcised.
Ron Goldman O.J.'s ( murder victim) of course was , Jewish
Bill Clinton (Circumcised)
River Jude Phoneix was circumcised
Most of the known intact guys are dead ei. John Wayne, James Dean
CiberCrooz
>From: coonie coon...@my-deja.com
>Date: Fri, 30 July 1999 07:44 PM EDT
>Message-id: <7ntdda$89i$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>In article <37A1D5E7...@thelabyrinth.org>,
> Ma...@thelabyrinth.org wrote:
>> All the Sheen and Estevez brothers are uncut.
>> Forrest Tucker also left his son uncut.
>>
>> CiberCrooz wrote:
>>
>> > Does anyone know of celebrities that left their sons intact?
>>
>
> Are you sure Martin Sheen and sons are NOT cut. They've been listed as
>all circumcised. Somewhere there's a list of cut and uncut celebrities.
>I just found the John Denver autopsy so perhaps this will confirm or
>deny his supposed intact status.
>
>Vince Foster was circumcised.
>Ron Goldman O.J.'s ( murder victim) of course was , Jewish
>Bill Clinton (Circumcised)
>River Jude Phoneix was circumcised
Now I hear River Phoneix and Keeanu Reeves had later life circumcisions.
I hear Christian Slater,Jason Presley,Luke Perry and Tony Danza are uncut.
>Most of the known intact guys are dead ei. John Wayne, James Dean
Of course most intact Americans were born before 1940.
There is a gap of intact Americans between 1950 and 1980.
Within that 30 year period,90% of American borned white males were circumcised.
CiberCrooz
How do you know this?
wadi
coonie <coon...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7ns4rn$a9s$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <19990729194241...@ng-fm1.aol.com>,
> ciber...@aol.com (CiberCrooz) wrote:
> > Does anyone know of celebrities that left their sons intact?
>
> Its that bitch Cindy.. something.. On Good Morning America.
>
> When humans learn something or develop a prejudice it takes hundreds of
> exposures to its opposite to change. That is one reason circ is so
> entrenched. Humans have little capacity for relearning something for
> which they've already established an opinion.
> I should know this as a special educator.
A "special educator"?
heh heh
wadi
>
> Most of the known intact guys are dead ei. John Wayne, James Dean
>
4skin related?
Centure33
>Date: Sat, 31 July 1999 12:19 AM EDT
>Message-id: <19990731001936...@ng-ff1.aol.com>
>>All the Sheen and Estevez brothers are uncut.
>
>How do you know this?
They are mexicans.
CiberCrooz
>Date: Sat, 31 July 1999 01:12 AM EDT
>Message-id: <19990731011247...@ng-fn1.aol.com>
Now who is generalizing?
Do you know that the majority of Mexicans of a certain economic standard circ?
CiberCrooz
On aserious note,does anyone know of a foreskin-related death?
On the other hand there have been circumcision related deaths.
coonie
> >Date: Fri, 30 July 1999 07:44 PM EDT
> >Message-id: <7ntdda$89i$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
> >River Jude Phoneix was circumcised
>
> Now I hear River Phoneix and Keeanu Reeves had later life
circumcisions.
I'd like to know more about River.. as Wads says.. he was my soul
mate. Daddy wanta spank naughty River.. and bounce him on his knee. LOL
From everything I've heard he was born to hippie parents at home.
Everything was natural.. so I don't know whn he got cut. Maybe someone
someday will do a biography of a young talent who burned out way too
soon, and may have been circed at birth, but the issue really isn't too
clear. You can't question the autopsy and it says circumcised.
Its available at DEADTHINGS.com for 15.00 dollars.
--
NickT80
>I hear Christian Slater,Jason Presley,Luke Perry and Tony Danza are uncut.
I hear that Leonardo DiCaprio is intact too.
NickT80
wrote:
>> >All the Sheen and Estevez brothers are uncut.
>>
>> How do you know this?
>
>Not according the list I read of CUT and UNCUT Hollywood male celebs.
WHO CARES?????
coonie
> On aserious note,does anyone know of a foreskin-related death?
> On the other hand there have been circumcision related deaths.
Well, here's one.. a fat guy who wasn't circed started to masturbate
violently. He torn the foreskin at the frenular artery. Add to this his
fatso was quite smashed at the time. He bled to death from the ripped
frenulum. ( Archive strange deaths )
By the way a circumciser will clip the frenular artery right away.. its
quite a bleeder.
INJURED:.. while at a circus in 1903 a young lad tried to feed a
jackass. The ass snapped at the boy's crouth and would not let go.
A circus worker beat the ass until it opend it jaws. The boy said his
penis felt very sore. Later, his entire foreskin, severed by the ass,
was found in his underware and appeared as beautifully cut as if a
suregeon had done it. The foreskin was said to have the appearance of a
"glove". From Medical Anomilies. reprinted 1976
A drunken prisioner in a county jail was found bleeding and expired on
the floor in a pool of blood. It was determined he had attempted to
circumcise himself with a cut tin can lid.
Death in 1924..
So the foreskin saved the boy's penis and killed a drunk who wanked
till he dropped he bled to death.
I always knew circumcisers were jackasses, but until now the litereal
proof was evasive. It was said the jackass tore the foreskin from its
roots.
The foreskin saved the youth's penis from damage by the bit of the
jackass.
CiberCrooz
>Date: Sat, 31 July 1999 02:06 PM EDT
>Message-id: <19990731140640...@ng-fh1.aol.com>
>
>cibercrooz wrote:
>
>>I hear Christian Slater,Jason Presley,Luke Perry and Tony Danza are uncut.
>
>I hear that Leonardo DiCaprio is intact too.
As we get into the younger generation we will see more and more All-American
intact
guys.
If only they would come out speaking against circ and saying intact is cool and
fine!
CiberCrooz
>Date: Sat, 31 July 1999 03:50 PM EDT
>Message-id: <7nvk1v$ku0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>> >Date: Fri, 30 July 1999 07:44 PM EDT
>> >Message-id: <7ntdda$89i$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>>
>> >River Jude Phoneix was circumcised
>>
>> Now I hear River Phoneix and Keeanu Reeves had later life
>circumcisions.
>
> I'd like to know more about River.. as Wads says.. he was my soul
>mate. Daddy wanta spank naughty River.. and bounce him on his knee. LOL
>
> From everything I've heard he was born to hippie parents at home.
>Everything was natural.. so I don't know whn he got cut. Maybe someone
>someday will do a biography of a young talent who burned out way too
>soon, and may have been circed at birth, but the issue really isn't too
>clear. You can't question the autopsy and it says circumcised.
Is Joaquim Phoneix his brother? If so is he intact or circ?
ten killer
standard circ?
The majority of ALL Mexicans from Mexico are uncircumcised no matter
what economic standard. Mexico is 95% not circumcised.
There is a percentage of Mexican babies born in the US who are
circumcised because the parents have no idea what circumcision is and
just sign the permisson papers put before them..
It is rare for any Hispanics to be circumcised except for the few Jewish
ones.
leroileo
coonie
As we know, their teen years can be hell if they are intact. We also
know if they go to Hollywood they often opt for the cut style. Pheonix
and that guy Reeves etc..
They often do not have the courage to accept natural is O.K.
They aren't as strong as Nick.
coonie
nic...@aol.com (NickT80) wrote:
> >leroileo
You'd think Martin Sheen, with all the counter culture flicks he's
done would have left his sons intact.
Well, who cares.. I suspect nobody if they're cut. A lot of folks need a
celeb to ralley around if your position is a minority view.
At present nocirc is maybe a 50 percent view among public.
Its a majority view since March among many physicians and medical folks.
But, as we've seen, that view without they're actively communicating it
to the circumcising public does little. Remember the pro-circers had no
problem communicating their erroneous views over the last fifty or more
years.
CiberCrooz
>Date: Sat, 31 July 1999 09:00 PM EDT
>Message-id: <7o067l$hn$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>In article <19990731163745...@ng-fy1.aol.com>,
> ciber...@aol.com (CiberCrooz) wrote:
>> >Subject: Re: Celebrities and intact sons
>> >From: nic...@aol.com (NickT80)
>> >Date: Sat, 31 July 1999 02:06 PM EDT
>> >Message-id: <19990731140640...@ng-fh1.aol.com>
>> >
>> >cibercrooz wrote:
>> >
>> >>I hear Christian Slater,Jason Presley,Luke Perry and Tony Danza are
>uncut.
>> >
>> >I hear that Leonardo DiCaprio is intact too.
>>
>> As we get into the younger generation we will see more and more
>All-American
>> intact
>> guys.
>>
>> If only they would come out speaking against circ and saying intact is
>cool and
>> fine!
>
> As we know, their teen years can be hell if they are intact. We also
>know if they go to Hollywood they often opt for the cut style. Pheonix
>and that guy Reeves etc..
> They often do not have the courage to accept natural is O.K.
>They aren't as strong as Nick.
>
These guys were still in the generation of a circumcised majority.
As the numbers of intact boys increase this will not be the case.
CiberCrooz
>Message-id: <7nvplr$ol4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>In article <19990731120625...@ng-fc1.aol.com>,
> ciber...@aol.com (CiberCrooz) wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >coonie <coon...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>
>
>> On aserious note,does anyone know of a foreskin-related death?
>> On the other hand there have been circumcision related deaths.
>
> Well, here's one.. a fat guy who wasn't circed started to masturbate
>violently. He torn the foreskin at the frenular artery. Add to this his
>fatso was quite smashed at the time. He bled to death from the ripped
>frenulum. ( Archive strange deaths )
>By the way a circumciser will clip the frenular artery right away.. its
>quite a bleeder.
Yep,babies have hemorrahed to death in America,not to mention how many boys die
in tribal initiations in Africa.
>INJURED:.. while at a circus in 1903 a young lad tried to feed a
>jackass. The ass snapped at the boy's crouth and would not let go.
>A circus worker beat the ass until it opend it jaws. The boy said his
>penis felt very sore. Later, his entire foreskin, severed by the ass,
>was found in his underware and appeared as beautifully cut as if a
>suregeon had done it. The foreskin was said to have the appearance of a
>"glove". From Medical Anomilies. reprinted 1976
>
> A drunken prisioner in a county jail was found bleeding and expired on
>the floor in a pool of blood. It was determined he had attempted to
>circumcise himself with a cut tin can lid.
>Death in 1924..
>
>So the foreskin saved the boy's penis and killed a drunk who wanked
>till he dropped he bled to death.
>
>I always knew circumcisers were jackasses, but until now the litereal
>proof was evasive. It was said the jackass tore the foreskin from its
>roots.
>The foreskin saved the youth's penis from damage by the bit of the
>jackass.
Centure33
>Message-id: <7o0bk2$420$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>I suspect nobody if they're cut. A lot of folks need a
>celeb to ralley around if your position is a minority view.
>At present nocirc is maybe a 50 percent view among public.
Since no-circ advocates the outlawing of infant male circumcision even
religious circumcisions. And you are claiming that 50% of Americans agree with
you can you name one congressman, governor, senator or presidential candidate
that has called for the outlawing of male infant circumcision?
Can you name one state legislator that has introduced legislation that has
called for the outlawing of male infant circumcision?
We know that the vast majority of Americans feel that female genital mutilation
is barbaric. In accordance with that thought we seen state legislators enact
legislation outlawing FGM for woman that are not adults. We also seen the
senate of the United States enact and pass a federal ban against FGM, in
accordance with the will of the majority of the American people.
Care to tell us why you can't name one politician that has joined no-circ, and
has called for the outlawing of infant male circumcision?
Could it be that you represent a fringe element less than 1% of the American
population?
wadi
I see.
Yea stick to the "funny" stuff.
Its less painful for the uncircumcised to bear.
coonie <coon...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7nvplr$ol4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <19990731120625...@ng-fc1.aol.com>,
> ciber...@aol.com (CiberCrooz) wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >coonie <coon...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>
>
> > On aserious note,does anyone know of a foreskin-related death?
> > On the other hand there have been circumcision related deaths.
>
> Well, here's one.. a fat guy who wasn't circed started to masturbate
> violently. He torn the foreskin at the frenular artery. Add to this his
> fatso was quite smashed at the time. He bled to death from the ripped
> frenulum. ( Archive strange deaths )
> By the way a circumciser will clip the frenular artery right away.. its
> quite a bleeder.
>
>
wadi
> > >Message-id: <7ntdda$89i$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
> >
> > >River Jude Phoneix was circumcised
> >
> > Now I hear River Phoneix and Keeanu Reeves had later life
> circumcisions.
>
> I'd like to know more about River.. as Wads says.. he was my soul
> mate. Daddy wanta spank naughty River.. and bounce him on his knee. LOL
>
Shit Coonie.
You haven't got the before pics yet then?
Someone e-mailed me to say he had two (taken at the time of the shooting of
Mosquito Coast).
That's your age group right?
Told him to email them to you.
Guess you are going to search the web now that you know that they are out
there, huh?
LOL
wadi
Centure33 <cent...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990731234347...@ng-ci1.aol.com...
>
> Could it be that you represent a fringe element less than 1% of the
American
> population?
1%?
I think that is optimistic.
coonie
cent...@aol.com (Centure33) wrote:
> >Subject: Re: Celebrities and intact sons
> >From: coonie coon...@my-deja.com
> you can you name one congressman, governor, senator or presidential
candidate
> that has called for the outlawing of male infant circumcision?
California and North Dakota for two. It will be done in Colorado.
I tried it here in 1988.
CiberCrooz
You think circumcision is a solutin for this?
Rember circumcised men can still get UTIs.
By the way Wadi:
I have minor in biology and for what I studied every tissue/organ is created to
work in conjunction for the organism's survival. The prepuce is a tissue which
is part of an organ-the penis, which is part of a system-the reproductive
system. All working in conjunction with the other tissues, organs and systems
in the body for the organism's survival. So it is illogical that nature would
create a tissue that is going to be detrimental (as some describe the prepuce)
to the organism's survival.
Centure33
>Message-id: <7o1c83$oh2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>> you can you name one congressman, governor, senator or presidential
>candidate
>> that has called for the outlawing of male infant circumcision?
> California and North Dakota for two.
Are you claiming these two states introduced legislation to outlaw male infant
circumcision? Care to tell us how many votes these proposals got? Care to tell
us the fate of the state legislators that introduced this legislation?
California coontail? Your another liar no such thing was ever introduced in
California.
>It will be done in Colorado.
Really when? Can you name the politician that has proposed this outlawing of
infant male circumcision?
>I tried it here in 1988.
You tried it? Were you a state legislator? Did your referendum get of the
ground? Care to tell us how many votes you got?
coonie
cent...@aol.com (Centure33) wrote:
> >Subject: Re: Celebrities and intact sons
> >From: coonie coon...@my-deja.com
> >Date: Sun, 01 August 1999 07:49 AM EDT
> >Message-id: <7o1c83$oh2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
> >> you can you name one congressman, governor, senator or presidential
> >candidate
> >> that has called for the outlawing of male infant circumcision?
>
> > California and North Dakota for two.
>
> Are you claiming these two states introduced legislation to outlaw
male infant
> circumcision? Care to tell us how many votes these proposals got? Care
to tell
> us the fate of the state legislators that introduced this legislation?
> California coontail? Your another liar no such thing was ever
introduced in
> California.
No liars here. It ws introduced! Maybe never came to the floor.
There is currently no law either permitting or prohibiting
> >It will be done in Colorado.
>
> Really when? Can you name the politician that has proposed this
outlawing of
> infant male circumcision?
Yes, you can read can't you.. at least a little?
>
> >I tried it here in 1988.
>
> You tried it? Were you a state legislator? Did your referendum get of
the
> ground? Care to tell us how many votes you got?
Don't you know what happens when legislation is introduced, you boob?
It first goes into a committee who decided how it will be written, then
goes to legal counsel for an opinion. Many more bills are introduced
every year in every sates than ever go to floor debate or vote.
YOU SAID NO LEGISLATION HAD EVER BEEN INTRODUCED. I said, you're wrong!
Ma...@thelabyrinth.net
Denture33 wrote:
> >Subject: Re: Celebrities and intact sons
> >From: coonie coon...@my-deja.com
> >Date: Sun, 01 August 1999 04:28 PM EDT
> >Message-id: <7o2akf$boo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
> >
> > No liars here. It ws introduced! Maybe never came to the floor.
> >There is currently no law either permitting or prohibiting
>
> No law permitting? Then why does the state of California license mohels to
> perform circumcision? Can't wait for your answer.
Because, you blithering Idjit, anyone who is in business here in Killah Kali has to
have a license to do business.
Centure33
>From: coonie coon...@my-deja.com
>Date: Sun, 01 August 1999 04:28 PM EDT
>Message-id: <7o2akf$boo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
> No liars here. It ws introduced! Maybe never came to the floor.
>There is currently no law either permitting or prohibiting
No law permitting? Then why does the state of California license mohels to
perform circumcision? Can't wait for your answer.
>> >It will be done in Colorado.
>>
>> Really when? Can you name the politician that has proposed this
>outlawing of
>> infant male circumcision?
>
>Yes, you can read can't you.. at least a little?
Yes, so type the name of the Citizen of Colorado that has introduced this
legislation? Or politician? Perhaps a referendum number?
>> >I tried it here in 1988.
>>
>> You tried it? Were you a state legislator? Did your referendum get of
>the
>> ground? Care to tell us how many votes you got?
>
> Don't you know what happens when legislation is introduced, you boob?
>It first goes into a committee who decided how it will be written, then
>goes to legal counsel for an opinion. Many more bills are introduced
>every year in every sates than ever go to floor debate or vote.
>YOU SAID NO LEGISLATION HAD EVER BEEN INTRODUCED. I said, you're wrong!
So your bullshit proposal never left committee? Bet not one politician voted to
bring it to a full vote? Bet not one attorney approved the proposal on
constitutional grounds?
Your screwed what a miserable failure. 50% of the public behind no-circ and not
one goddamn state law against infant male circumcision.
CiberCrooz
To bad themajority don't let their patients know so.
Silence only perpetuates the practice.
So many parents think it is "the thing to do' and go blindly for circ and then
regret it and say NO ONE told them any different.
Even bringing up the issue makes at least some qustion it.
CiberCrooz
>>celeb to ralley around if your position is a minority view.
>>At present nocirc is maybe a 50 percent view among public.
>
>Since no-circ advocates the outlawing of infant male circumcision even
>religious circumcisions. And you are claiming that 50% of Americans agree
>with
>that has called for the outlawing of male infant circumcision?
>
>called for the outlawing of male infant circumcision?
>
>mutilation
>is barbaric. In accordance with that thought we seen state legislators enact
>legislation outlawing FGM for woman that are not adults. We also seen the
>senate of the United States enact and pass a federal ban against FGM, in
>accordance with the will of the majority of the American people.
>
>Care to tell us why you can't name one politician that has joined no-circ,
>and
>
>Could it be that you represent a fringe element less than 1% of the American
>population?
No,I'll care to tell you.
It is because female circumcision is foreing to us and male circumcison is
mainstream.
It is called bias.
CiberCrooz
>> >From: coonie coon...@my-deja.com
>> >Date: Sat, 31 July 1999 10:32 PM EDT
>> >Message-id: <7o0bk2$420$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>>
>
>
>candidate
>> that has called for the outlawing of male infant circumcision?
>
Were they sucessful?
It will be done in Colorado.
>I tried it here in 1988.
Hawaii was contemplating passing a law making male circumcison illegal solemly
on the basis of the individual's right to decide for his body.
CiberCrooz
>>Message-id: <7o2akf$boo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>>
>> No liars here. It ws introduced! Maybe never came to the floor.
>>There is currently no law either permitting or prohibiting
>
>No law permitting? Then why does the state of California license mohels to
>perform circumcision? Can't wait for your answer.
>
>>>
>>> infant male circumcision?
>>
>
>Yes, so type the name of the Citizen of Colorado that has introduced this
>legislation? Or politician? Perhaps a referendum number?
>
>>>
>>the
>>> ground? Care to tell us how many votes you got?
>>
>> Don't you know what happens when legislation is introduced, you boob?
>>It first goes into a committee who decided how it will be written, then
>>goes to legal counsel for an opinion. Many more bills are introduced
>>every year in every sates than ever go to floor debate or vote.
>>YOU SAID NO LEGISLATION HAD EVER BEEN INTRODUCED. I said, you're wrong!
>
>So your bullshit proposal never left committee? Bet not one politician voted
>to
>bring it to a full vote? Bet not one attorney approved the proposal on
>constitutional grounds?
In North Dakota it was:
http://www.noharmm.org/minot.htm
CiberCrooz
>Date: Sat, 31 July 1999 10:29 PM EDT
>Message-id: <2938-37A...@newsd-121.bryant.webtv.net>
Not,so take it from me,I am Latin American.I can not speak for all Latin
Americans,but I can only speak for my home country:EL Salvador.
Believe me:90% of upper class Salvadoreans below the age of 30 are
circumcised(lets see just to name a few:all my maternal uncles,their sons,many
of my friends :all upper class Salvadoreans born there and circumcised.Note:
non are Jewish. ).I think that the upper class of El Salvador has one of the
highest circ rates in Latin America.Interesting that in neighboring countries
such as Nicaragua,Costa Rica and Panama it is virtually unheard off amogst any
social class.
I also know of upper middle class Mexicans,Puerto Ricans and Colombians born in
their homecountries,not in the USA who were also circumcised.
Hugh Young
That's a pity: what proportion of the population fall into the upper
class? Are they doing it to copy the USAmericans?
--
Hugh Young, Pukerua Bay, Nuclear-free Aotearoa / New Zealand
http://www.Geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/7712/
NickT80
wrote:
>Denture33 wrote:
Now THATS funny. That was a good one. I laughed so hard my sides hurt. I like
it. LOL for the next 5 min.
wadi
CiberCrooz <ciber...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990801075656...@ng-fy1.aol.com...
>
> By the way Wadi:
>
> I have minor in biology and for what I studied every tissue/organ is
created to
> work in conjunction for the organism's survival. The prepuce is a tissue
which
> is part of an organ-the penis, which is part of a system-the reproductive
> system. All working in conjunction with the other tissues, organs and
systems
> in the body for the organism's survival. So it is illogical that nature
would
> create a tissue that is going to be detrimental (as some describe the
prepuce)
> to the organism's survival.
I suppose this "minor" in biology qualifies you to make the ridiculous
statement below?
LOL
>>Yep,indeed I think the bias on part of the American
>>medical commuity by far is bias toward circing(taking
>>into consideration that many of these are outdated
>>misinformation and misconstrument )
CiberCrooz
What is so ridicoulus about it? It is the damn truth,take a look at
Weiss,Morris,Shoen,Wiswell to name a few.
coonie
ciber...@aol.com (CiberCrooz) wrote:
Goldman finds doctors who are older, male, circumcised, tend to be
resistant to any new information or perspective on circumcision. The
defensive mechanisms deny and continue to spout the old excuses.
He believes this to be cognitive dissonance. Rather than change an old
view which might require accepting blame, shame or accountability, its
easire to ignore, discredit, reject.. etc.
We see a lot of that in this N.G.
However the over all medical acceptance of circumcision is changing.
The Boston Globe article clearly said the over whelming majority of
medical staff were opposed to circumcision. However, without them
educating, communicating this or refusing to perform circumcisions, the
circ rate may drop very slowly.
In certain parts of the USA nothing will be said and circumcision will
be accepted as it always has been. In the mid west for example..
especially Missouri, Kansas , Nebraska, Dakotas and Illinois, its
business as usual. They choose to ignore and deny.
> What is so ridicoulus about it? It is the damn truth,take a look at
> Weiss,Morris,Shoen,Wiswell to name a few.
wadi
[snip]
> In certain parts of the USA nothing will be said and circumcision will
> be accepted as it always has been. In the mid west for example..
> especially Missouri, Kansas , Nebraska, Dakotas and Illinois, its
> business as usual. They choose to ignore and deny.
>
Well here in alt.circ it is also business as usual.
Lets all raise our glasses to old stinky then shall we?
LOL
Craig Wagner
> Goldman might have a point here. In the same way, however, I
> think that both Goldman and many of the anticirc True Believers
> are closed-minded when it comes to new information when that
> information happens to go against the cherished anticirc litany.
When the conflict is between two different issues -- in this case human
rights vs. potential health benefits -- it's unlikely that any "new
information" about one will affect those who believe in the other.
Dawson William
wadi wrote:
Why on earth would we want to toast you?
Russ
Hal
were kept as
nature intended! (Rick was also well endowed as are his talented sons)!
leroileo wrote:
> CiberCrooz wrote:
>
> > >All the Sheen and Estevez brothers are uncut.
> >
> > How do you know this?
>
> Not according the list I read of CUT and UNCUT Hollywood male celebs.
coonie
Hal <Hal...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> I believe the late Rick Nelson was uncut and insured that his twin
sons
> were kept as
> nature intended! (Rick was also well endowed as are his talented
sons)!
No, think not. The Nelson brothers are listed as circumcised. But, the
list has been shown to be wrong on several ocassions. Phil Donahue was
listed as intact, he denied on the show. Nelsons born in early 40's may
or may not have been cut. It is unlikely their father was.
Circumcision rates at that time were about 50/50.
I don't know where they got their data. Most Stars will not tell
publicly, wishing to be assumed circumcised.
Some teen and younger stars more than likely are intact, especially if
born on the west coast.
Bob of M
that her sons, Princes William and Harry, are intact. I'm of the WW2 generation
and am intact only because I was an incubator baby. My brother wasn't and was
circumcised. I consider myself very lucky that I escaped as no one can convince
me that cut is better. There is nothing like the feeling of having a foreskin.
The only basis for circumcision is cultural prejudice similar to the kind that
held women menstruating to be 'unclean'. Circumcision is from an irrational
mindset reinforced by reactionary doctors and bad medical information.
coonie
Same here. I only know the truth about being normal because I was a
three and half pound baby in 1948, not expected to live.
My two younger brothers born 51, 53 are circumcised!
Both haben't the slightest idea of what a foreskin is like and like
other circumcised men rationalize their own circumcisions.
wadi
>
> Same here. I only know the truth about being normal because I was a
> three and half pound baby in 1948, not expected to live.
> My two younger brothers born 51, 53 are circumcised!
> Both haben't the slightest idea of what a foreskin is like and like
> other circumcised men rationalize their own circumcisions.
Ahh Coonie a kindred spirt for you at last.
Another preemie who missed the cut.
I wonder if both sets of parents anticipated the negative psychological
fallout that was to come.
wadi
Bob of M <bob...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990806125322...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
> You will be interested to know that Princess Diana was against
circumcision,
> that her sons, Princes William and Harry, are intact.
Ok
Now you are going to post some proof of that sometime?
Neal
>On Fri, 06 Aug 1999 17:04:57 GMT, coonie <coon...@my-deja.com>
>wrote:
>
>> No, think not. The Nelson brothers are listed as circumcised. But, the
>>list has been shown to be wrong on several ocassions. Phil Donahue was
>>listed as intact, he denied on the show. Nelsons born in early 40's may
>>or may not have been cut. It is unlikely their father was.
>>Circumcision rates at that time were about 50/50.
>
>I dispute that the circ rates at the time were 50/50. I was born
>in 1933 and 90+% of my peers were circumcised. That percentage
>has held up wherever I have lived, and I have lived pretty much
>all over the U.S.
>
>My dad was born in 1906; he was circed and so were most of his
>peers.
>
>Don
I'll vouch for the fact that around 1940 the circ rate was about 50%.
I was born in 1940 and among the high school kids my age, the circ
rate was about 66%. Circ was very much a class thing, and the high
school dropouts were much less circed.
I joined the Army in 1961, and saw that the circ rate there was about
50% among the guys born 1940-1944.
I saw times/places where the circ rate was higher. The college
freshmen my age were about 80% circed - this was just moving down the
road 90 miles from where I was born and raised. Again, another
indication of the social class/circ correlatioin.
My father was born in 1905. He was not circed, nor were his brothers,
nor were any of his peers. He told me he didn't learn that it existed
until he was an adult.
Don hasn't said, but I suspect that he (and his father) grew up in the
Northeastern US, which was a hotbed of circumcision, but not
indicative of the national rate at all.
--
Neal
Note: To contact, remove the ".NS" from address
coonie
When Don says 90 percent of his peers in 1933 were cut, there seems
only two possibilities. He saw very few of his peer's penises. (or)
He was born in a Jewish neighborhood.
No where in the US in the 1930s did the circ rate go to 90 percent.
It has been reported to be about 55-60 percent at WW2 end in 1945.
Many urban hospitals today have circ rates in excess of ninety percent!
Dave
Don wrote:
> >No where in the US in the 1930s did the circ rate go to 90 percent.
>
> It did everywhere I lived. And that is the point. The anticirc
> sources which provide their estimated circ rate information are
> off.
Don, even you are not so blind as to see how ludicrous this is. One
anecdotal experience is not enough to completly trash the rates. Especially
when we have varied data comming in. Now then, you are correct to challenge
the nowhere arguement. It probably did happen in some places, mainly due to
the town having only one doctor who was pro-cut and didn't believe in
consent forms.
-Dave
...replied to Don Morgan.
Paul Hagen
ciber...@aol.com (CiberCrooz) wrote:
> As we get into the younger generation we will see more and more All-American
> intact
> guys.
>
> If only they would come out speaking against circ and saying intact is
cool and
> fine!
Why? As far as I know, none of the circ'd ones are speaking out against
foreskins and saying that circ is cool and fine. This reflects the reality
is that MOST guys, REGARDLESS of their circ status, feel no compelling
need to tell the world that everyone "should" have a penis like theirs.
Dawson William
Paul Hagen wrote:
No what we are saying is that people should be allowed to have a complete penis
especially since there is no medical reason for the foreskin to be amputated
(RIC), that is quite different from saying that "all should have a penis like
theirs", do you not understand the difference.
I personally don't care if an adult decides to have a circumcision as long as it
is his choice, what I take exception to is the violation of a child's human
rights, this has been made abundantly clear on several occasions but you choose to
argue adult circumcision probably because you are on very thin ice when it comes
to routine infant circumcision and the moral issues surrounding it.
It is easier for you to try to make this into a circed penis versus an intact
penis than to try to grapple with the very real issue of the rights of the
individual to his own body.
George Hill
Paul Hagen <prh...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
news:prhagen-0708...@port129.bitstream.net...
> Why? As far as I know, none of the circ'd ones are speaking out against
> foreskins and saying that circ is cool and fine. This reflects the reality
> is that MOST guys, REGARDLESS of their circ status, feel no compelling
> need to tell the world that everyone "should" have a penis like theirs.
Paul, you fucked up big time when you got yourself circumcised. You just
don't like to hear about it.
George
Centure33
>Date: Sat, 07 August 1999 09:25 PM EDT
>Message-id: <T%4r3.524$9X.3...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>
>Paul, you fucked up big time when you got yourself circumcised. You just
>don't like to hear about it.
>
>George
Dear George, I am glad that you came down from the mountain.
Centure33
>Date: Mon, 02 August 1999 01:54 AM EDT
>Message-id: <19990802015459...@ng-fc1.aol.com
>>> you can you name one congressman, governor, senator or presidential
>>candidate
>>> that has called for the outlawing of male infant circumcision?
>>
>> California and North Dakota for two.
>Were they sucessful?
Get serious you idiot. We only have coontails word that such laws were
introduced in committee's, he could very well be lying.
>
>Hawaii was contemplating passing a law making male circumcison illegal
>solemly
>on the basis of the individual's right to decide for his body.
Really? So what happened?
Centure33
>Message-id: <19990802020030...@ng-fc1.aol.com>
> Bet not one politician voted
>>to
>>bring it to a full vote? Bet not one attorney approved the proposal on
>>constitutional grounds?
>
>In North Dakota it was:
>http://www.noharmm.org/minot.htm
Good or Bad?
Roger Allen, a pediatrician in Minot said some studies show that
circumcisions reduce the risk of boys developing infections and diseases
later in life. But evidence is sketchy, he said.
"You can't demonstrate anything remarkably good or remarkably bad that
relates to the procedure," Allen said.
State lawmakers considered including boys in the 1995 bill. But the idea
was scratched because of a lack of support, said Sen. Tim Mathern,
D-Fargo, a bill co-sponsor.
"I would have had no problem keeping it together and both males and
females being treated the same," he said. "But we couldn't get enough
votes."
About 60 percent of baby boys are circumcised nationwide, including
between 80 and 90 percent of North Dakota boys, said plaintiff Jody
McLaughlin, of Minot. It's a traditional procedure that has little
medical basis and is shunned by other Western countries, she said.
"People in Europe ... call us barbarians," McLaughlin said.
Circumcision involves the removal of the foreskin at the end of the
penis. Baer said taking away the foreskin and its nerve endings
decreases a male's potential for sexual pleasure.
The lawsuit could have national and international importance, Baer said.
"It really becomes an issue of human rights," he said.
Religious implications
The lawsuit also could have religious implications. Many Jewish and
Islamic people consider circumcision a religious practice.
"We don't believe you have a right to do that based on religion," Baer
said. But the court would likely grant exemptions for Jews and Muslims
if routine circumcision ever were outlawed, he added.
No votes to ban infant male circumcision. Religious exemptions?
Centure33
>Date: Fri, 06 August 1999 01:04 PM EDT
>Message-id: <7of4jg$fcd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>Nelsons born in early 40's may
>or may not have been cut. It is unlikely their father was.
>Circumcision rates at that time were about 50/50.
Here is where coontails brilliance is evident.
Notice how coontail states it is unlikely that Ricky Nelson was circumcised,
because at the time of his infancy the circumcision rate was 50%. So coontail
knows what side of the coin comes down?
Hugh Young
said:
>In article <19990731163745...@ng-fy1.aol.com>,
>ciber...@aol.com (CiberCrooz) wrote:
>
>> As we get into the younger generation we will see more and more All-American
>> intact
>> guys.
>>
>> If only they would come out speaking against circ and saying intact is
>cool and
>> fine!
>
>Why? As far as I know, none of the circ'd ones are speaking out against
>foreskins and saying that circ is cool and fine.
Where has PH been? He obviously missed the recent episode of Sex and
the City, where an intact man was subjected to a tirade of abuse
against his foreskin till he got himself cut, or the new Bruce Willis
movie Sixth Sense, in which Willis calls his rival "Cheese dick",
or....
CiberCrooz
>Date: Sat, 07 August 1999 03:46 PM EDT
>Message-id: <prhagen-0708...@port129.bitstream.net>
>
>In article <19990731163745...@ng-fy1.aol.com>,
>ciber...@aol.com (CiberCrooz) wrote:
>
>> As we get into the younger generation we will see more and more
>All-American
>> intact
>> guys.
>>
>> If only they would come out speaking against circ and saying intact is
>cool and
>> fine!
>
>Why? As far as I know, none of the circ'd ones are speaking out against
>is that MOST guys, REGARDLESS of their circ status, feel no compelling
>need to tell the world that everyone "should" have a penis like theirs.
>
We live in a society where 90% of guys are circumcised,where circumcision and
the circumcised penis has been glamorized for years,what need would a
circumcised guy have to come out and speak in favor of circumcision? America
has heard the "wonders " of circumcision for more than 50 years now.
As far as intact men,many are ashamed to admit the are intact to the
circumcised majority fearing ridicoule if they do.
CiberCrooz
>Date: Sat, 07 August 1999 09:25 PM EDT
>Message-id: <T%4r3.524$9X.3...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>
>
>
>> foreskins and saying that circ is cool and fine. This reflects the reality
>> is that MOST guys, REGARDLESS of their circ status, feel no compelling
>> need to tell the world that everyone "should" have a penis like theirs.
>
>don't like to hear about it.
>
>George
I have come to the conclusion that Paul deep inside now feels circumcision was
not such a good choice and regrets it,but what can he do now,but renforce
himself that indeed it was a "good" choice.
CiberCrooz
>Date: Sat, 07 August 1999 07:35 AM EDT
>Message-id: <37ad12f7...@news.idt.net>
>
>On Fri, 06 Aug 1999 18:15:00 GMT, see.a...@below.net (Don) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 06 Aug 1999 17:04:57 GMT, coonie <coon...@my-deja.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> No, think not. The Nelson brothers are listed as circumcised. But, the
>>>list has been shown to be wrong on several ocassions. Phil Donahue was
>>>or may not have been cut. It is unlikely their father was.
>>>Circumcision rates at that time were about 50/50.
>>
>>in 1933 and 90+% of my peers were circumcised. That percentage
>>has held up wherever I have lived, and I have lived pretty much
>>all over the U.S.
>>
>>My dad was born in 1906; he was circed and so were most of his
>>peers.
>>
>>Don
>
>I'll vouch for the fact that around 1940 the circ rate was about 50%.
>I was born in 1940 and among the high school kids my age, the circ
>rate was about 66%. Circ was very much a class thing, and the high
>school dropouts were much less circed.
>
>I joined the Army in 1961, and saw that the circ rate there was about
>50% among the guys born 1940-1944.
>
>I saw times/places where the circ rate was higher. The college
>freshmen my age were about 80% circed - this was just moving down the
>road 90 miles from where I was born and raised. Again, another
>indication of the social class/circ correlatioin.
>
>My father was born in 1905. He was not circed, nor were his brothers,
>nor were any of his peers. He told me he didn't learn that it existed
>until he was an adult.
>
>Don hasn't said, but I suspect that he (and his father) grew up in the
>Northeastern US, which was a hotbed of circumcision, but not
>indicative of the national rate at all.
>
http://www.noharmm.org/docswords.htm
wadi
CiberCrooz <ciber...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990811073505...@ng-cq1.aol.com...
>
> As far as intact men,many are ashamed to admit the are intact to the
> circumcised majority fearing ridicoule if they do.
>
And you are so pissed off about that that you come to this newsgroup to
relieve the angst but letting off steam and posting a mountain of crap on
the subject.