A Creationist speaks
Keith Justified And Ancient Cochran
In article <1994Feb17....@bbx.basis.com>,
Allen J. Newton <ane...@alturia.abq.nm.us> wrote:
>Summary: Chris stated that the Bible seems to him to be heavily in
>favor of ignorance. He stated this as an answer to the question he
>was supposedly presenting to Bill. His assertion is false, and
>demonstrates that either he's never read the entire Bible and may be
>taking some small portions of it out of context (not that he quoted
>any verses), or he has selective memory regarding it. I have read it,
>the entire thing, several times, and know that the Bible encourages
>rational thought and learning. God would not have us remain in
>ignorance, despite what certain sects of (pseudo-?) Christianity
>themselves teach (the Catholic Church being the most notable example
>of both -- pseudo-Christianity and propagation of ignorance. They
>actively discourage lay people from even reading the Bible!).
IF, as you claim, the Bible (and God) don't want us to remain
ignorant, what was that whole thing about a tree and some forbidden
fruit, and "They have become like us; to know Good and Evil". By
denying them the "apple", it sounds like God was trying to keep
Adam and Eve in ignorance.
Oh, here's an odd question for somebody:
Did Adam and Eve ever have sex before the fall?
--
=kcoc...@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=
=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza. OK???=
=Mnemosyne is having posting problems. I've probably seen your post, but may =
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Jean-David Lanz
|> [This is coming in late, so...]
|>
|> In article <1994Feb17....@bbx.basis.com>,
|> Allen J. Newton <ane...@alturia.abq.nm.us> wrote:
|> >God would not have us remain in
|> >ignorance, despite what certain sects of (pseudo-?) Christianity
|> >themselves teach (the Catholic Church being the most notable example
|> >of both -- pseudo-Christianity and propagation of ignorance. They
|> >actively discourage lay people from even reading the Bible!).
Though myself a french protestant (nationality is relevant here, since
we are a minority among Christians in my country), and therefore
absolutely not opposed to a good little sting on Cathos, I think you're
going a bit too far by calling the Catholic Church a "sect". The evil
(indeed, evil) deed you claim they are guilty of has been reckoned
to be a mistake by now, I believe. (As in "I'm sure".) Now, I don't know
much about the kind of sects you're talking about, but I know of others
(Jehovah witnesses spring to mind) who encourage the reading of a
falsified Bible, others (Mormons, of course) who add their own book to
it (and Cathos, too, although the addition is far less important), and
others again (7th Day Adventists) who take only one interpretation of
the Bible, obviously false (according to them, Judgment Day is to take
place in 1844 AD. Yeah, I know it's behind us. Why do you think I said
"obviously false" ?).
|> IF, as you claim, the Bible (and God) don't want us to remain
|> ignorant, what was that whole thing about a tree and some forbidden
|> fruit, and "They have become like us; to know Good and Evil". By
|> denying them the "apple", it sounds like God was trying to keep
|> Adam and Eve in ignorance.
Hey ?!? Who is "us" ? God is one, in the Old Testament. It's not
before his return as a human in "Bible part II : The New
Generation oops Testament" that he will be three, yet still one.
I see the forbidden fruit as the expression of the trust God put
into man (and that the latter has until now, generally failed).
|> Oh, here's an odd question for somebody:
|>
|> Did Adam and Eve ever have sex before the fall?
Who cares ? Live and let live, bud ... The Original Sin has been
strongly related, by tradition, to sex. But I don't remember any
_biblical_ evidence. They may have, why not ? God never said "ALL
THE ANIMALS WILL GROW AND MULTIPLICATE BUT YOU TWO MUST NOT TOUCH
EACH OTHER ! IS IT WELL AND FULLY UNDERSTOOD, OR MUST I HIT ONE
MORE TIME ?" So let's say it's their private life and do not
disturb them.
Anyway, in my vision of Genesis, it's only a metaphor.
Hey, if you do not think like me, read the works of God Squared
aka Isaac Asimov, he made a short-short story on this topic.
"Errare humanum est (error is human)"
--God
jd
Matthew P Wiener
>Oh, here's an odd question for somebody:
>Did Adam and Eve ever have sex before the fall?
According to traditional Jewish sources, Cain was conceived and born
before the fall--this was before the childbirth curse--and Abel came
after the fall.
--
-Matthew P Wiener (wee...@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Allen J. Newton
> [This is coming in late, so...]
>
> In article <1994Feb17....@bbx.basis.com>,
> Allen J. Newton <ane...@alturia.abq.nm.us> wrote:
> >Summary: Chris stated that the Bible seems to him to be heavily in
> >favor of ignorance. He stated this as an answer to the question he
> >was supposedly presenting to Bill. His assertion is false, and
> >demonstrates that either he's never read the entire Bible and may be
> >taking some small portions of it out of context (not that he quoted
> >any verses), or he has selective memory regarding it. I have read it,
> >the entire thing, several times, and know that the Bible encourages
> >rational thought and learning. God would not have us remain in
> >ignorance, despite what certain sects of (pseudo-?) Christianity
> >themselves teach (the Catholic Church being the most notable example
> >of both -- pseudo-Christianity and propagation of ignorance. They
> >actively discourage lay people from even reading the Bible!).
>
> IF, as you claim, the Bible (and God) don't want us to remain
> ignorant, what was that whole thing about a tree and some forbidden
> fruit, and "They have become like us; to know Good and Evil". By
> denying them the "apple", it sounds like God was trying to keep
> Adam and Eve in ignorance.
There is a difference between innocence and ignorance. You've heard the
phrase "you're better off not knowing"? This is true for some things. Sin
was one of those. Witnessing an armed robbery where the robbers got away
(after getting a good look at YOU) is another.
>
> Oh, here's an odd question for somebody:
>
> Did Adam and Eve ever have sex before the fall?
I don't see why not. From a Biblical perspective, sex between a man and his
wife is not sinful. God invented sex, and He invented it to be pleasurable
(imagine that!). But He also specified when & where it was proper, and how &
where it was not...
> --
> =kcoc...@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=
> =My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza. OK???=
> =Mnemosyne is having posting problems. I've probably seen your post, but may =
> =not be able to send out a reply. We apologize for the inconvience. =
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allen J. Newton | Never bite off
ane...@alturia.abq.nm.us | more than you can chew...
Timothy John Woelk
>Oh, here's an odd question for somebody:
>Did Adam and Eve ever have sex before the fall?
Here's the answer: did they need to?
Sex was designed for conception, and as a wonderful thing between two
married people. If you study carefully the words of Genesis chapter 2,
you see that when God says that a man will leave his parents..., that is
when Adam and Eve were married. They had no sex before, because they
were not yet married. God's *original* plan was for women to give birth
naturally, without pain. The pain of childbirth is the consequence of
Eve's actions. Paul writes in one of his letters that women are saved
through childbirth. (1 Corinthians, I think).
Annette Dexter
>I think Adam and Eve had sex when Adam fell. "Know" is often meant to have a
>sexual intercourse in the bible, and "knowledge" can mean the similar thing.
>For Eve to know how to deal with her sexual desire and organ is the most
>important thing to realize God's blessing "Be fruitful, multiply, ..." The
>serpent knew what God told Adam and Eve and tried to destroy God's plan. The
>fact that Adam and Eve hid their lower part (sexual part) suggest they sinned
>with their sexual organs instead of their mouth or hands that should be used
>to take the "fruit".
indeed, mouths and hands are equally well suited for enjoyment
of the "fruit" ;)
annette
Takahiro Hiroi
>From: kcoc...@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
>Subject: Re: A Creationist speaks
>Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 02:03:27 GMT
>[This is coming in late, so...]
>In article <1994Feb17....@bbx.basis.com>,
>Allen J. Newton <ane...@alturia.abq.nm.us> wrote:
>IF, as you claim, the Bible (and God) don't want us to remain
>ignorant, what was that whole thing about a tree and some forbidden
>fruit, and "They have become like us; to know Good and Evil". By
>denying them the "apple", it sounds like God was trying to keep
>Adam and Eve in ignorance.
>Oh, here's an odd question for somebody:
>Did Adam and Eve ever have sex before the fall?
I think Adam and Eve had sex when Adam fell. "Know" is often meant to have a
Paul Keck
> umw...@cc.umanitoba.ca (Timothy John Woelk) wrote:
>
>> ... God's *original* plan was for women to give birth
>> naturally, without pain.
Seriously, how can you say this? God knows everything, right? He knows the
future, the past, etc? He _knew_ A&E would eat the fruit, knows in fact how
many pieces of Kitten Chow my cat ate between 5:05 and 8:22 yesterday (or next
week Wednesday, knows that too). How can He have an original plan that He had
to change because of A&E? He knew what would happen before He started. He
plotted the whole thing out. You can say it causes Him sorrow at what He has
to do to punish us poor slobs, but if He knew it would happen and did nothing
to prevent it except warnings which He knew wouldn't work beforehand, who's to
blame? If I knew my cat was about to jump on the stove and that saying in a
calm voice "Don't do that" wouldn't cut it, I'd yell or grab her or something.
Why didn't God use more forceful means to keep us in the Garden? He knew what
was about to happen.
Enough rambling. I just wonder how you can say He had an "original" plan if
the whole of eternity is spelled out in His mind.
Paul Keck I'm not the whole of eternity, but I play it on TV.
Stephen Watson
>In <1994Feb23.0...@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcoc...@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:
>>Oh, here's an odd question for somebody:
>>Did Adam and Eve ever have sex before the fall?
>Here's the answer: did they need to?
>Sex was designed for conception, and as a wonderful thing between two
>married people. If you study carefully the words of Genesis chapter 2,
>you see that when God says that a man will leave his parents..., that is
>when Adam and Eve were married.
But that was before the Fall, right? (I don't have a Bible at school)
>They had no sex before, because they
>were not yet married. God's *original* plan was for women to give birth
>naturally, without pain.
Non-sequitur: what does sex have to do with pain in childbirth?
>The pain of childbirth is the consequence of
>Eve's actions. Paul writes in one of his letters that women are saved
>through childbirth. (1 Corinthians, I think).
Watch it: that sounds dangerously close to salvation-by-works. This
was hashed over recently in s.r.c.
In any case, the idea that having sex was the "forbidden fruit" is a
very prudish interpretation. It seems to be a circulating
misconception nowadays, and may have been seriously taught by some
terribly repressed people in the past, but is far from universal even
among conservatives (see, for e.g. LaHaye's _Act_of_Marriage_).
--
= Steve Watson a.k.a. wat...@sce.carleton.ca === Carleton University, Ontario =
this->opinion = My.opinion; assert (this->opinion != CarletonU.opinion);
"Brains don't work very well in the morning, do they?" - Nicky (6yo)
"No, they don't. Especially Daddy's." - Mummy
T. M. Cuffel
Something is odd about this. Adam and Eve were not supposed to have sex,
but God intended childbirth to be easy. And when they obeyed the be fruitful
part, God made it harder to do.
And exactly when does the Bible say they got around to the marraige thing?
I think if you are created to be the first couple on earth, you are married
by defualt.
--
T. M. Cuffel "So do you have any experience watching children?"
"Only from my car."
-Some TV show
Jean-David Lanz
|> God knows everything, right? He knows the
|> future, the past, etc? He _knew_ A&E would eat the fruit, knows in fact how
|> many pieces of Kitten Chow my cat ate between 5:05 and 8:22 yesterday (or next
|> week Wednesday, knows that too). How can He have an original plan that He had
|> to change because of A&E? He knew what would happen before He started. He
|> plotted the whole thing out. You can say it causes Him sorrow at what He has
|> to do to punish us poor slobs, but if He knew it would happen and did nothing
|> to prevent it except warnings which He knew wouldn't work beforehand, who's to
|> blame? If I knew my cat was about to jump on the stove and that saying in a
|> calm voice "Don't do that" wouldn't cut it, I'd yell or grab her or something.
|> Why didn't God use more forceful means to keep us in the Garden? He knew what
|> was about to happen.
|>
|> Enough rambling. I just wonder how you can say He had an "original" plan if
|> the whole of eternity is spelled out in His mind.
|>
|> Paul Keck I'm not the whole of eternity, but I play it on TV.
Well, as I know man, if he had been kept by force in the garden,
he would have found a way to break free. I think we can trust him
on this one. Now, are you def sure God knows everything that is,
that has been, and that will be ? OK for the first two, but the
last is false. I mean, what's the fun in a world where you know
everything from the start ?
One difference between your example and the Garden business is
that we don't know if your cat is intelligent. (I suspect mine is,
but I'm not always sure, and, even so, she might be an exception.)
God knows man is intelligent, and that maybe (just maybe, so give
it one try anyway) he will trust Him. God loves us, and He would
dearly like us to love him too, but that seems to be too hard for
many of us (this means me too). I don't believe God knows all that
will happen. I'd even tend to say He created the world with the
principle of incertitude for that purpose.
"Uh, Dad, you sure that's the right way to surge my appendicitis ?"
--Isaac, before Abraham sacrified him.
jd
Allen J. Newton
> In article <2kg250$2...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>,
> Timothy John Woelk <umw...@cc.umanitoba.ca> wrote:
> >In <1994Feb23.0...@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcoc...@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:
> >
> >>Oh, here's an odd question for somebody:
> >
> >>Did Adam and Eve ever have sex before the fall?
> >
> >Here's the answer: did they need to?
> >
> >Sex was designed for conception, and as a wonderful thing between two
> >married people. If you study carefully the words of Genesis chapter 2,
> >you see that when God says that a man will leave his parents..., that is
> >when Adam and Eve were married. They had no sex before, because they
> >were not yet married. God's *original* plan was for women to give birth
> >naturally, without pain. The pain of childbirth is the consequence of
> >Eve's actions. Paul writes in one of his letters that women are saved
> >through childbirth. (1 Corinthians, I think).
>
> Something is odd about this. Adam and Eve were not supposed to have sex,
Where did you extrapolate this from? Certainly not the text...
> but God intended childbirth to be easy. And when they obeyed the be fruitful
> part, God made it harder to do.
No, he just increased the unpleasantness...
>
> And exactly when does the Bible say they got around to the marraige thing?
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and
he brought her to the man.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[Father giving away the bride]
The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
^^^^^^^^^^^
[Short wedding ceremony, more of a declaration]
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called `woman',
for she was taken out of man."
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[Confirmation/Acknowledgement]
wife, and they will become one flesh. (Gen 2:22-24, NIV)
> I think if you are created to be the first couple on earth, you are married
> by defualt.
That was the idea, yes. But the "ceremony" was still a part of that...
>
> --
> T. M. Cuffel "So do you have any experience watching children?"
> "Only from my car."
>
> -Some TV show
Chris Woodward (PSY)
I thought Monty Python had disbanded.
Wade Hines
(Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:
>>Did Adam and Eve ever have sex before the fall?
>Here's the answer: did they need to?
>Sex was designed for conception, and as a wonderful thing between two
>married people.
Then I say, Let's break out the torches and kill then animals what's
having sex that was designed for us peoples - and just us married
peoples at that. Look, thar's some dogs rutting in the street. Get
'em. Why I bet they ain't even married - and the position they usin.
And who designed it anyways? It's so *messy*. And then there's that
story about the bettle that commits homosexual rape. I think the
designer was drunk or is certainly one twisted perverted sort. Sex
seems quite chaotic in fact - a desperate mixture of happenstance
if you bother to learn about its varried incarnations thoughout the
biological world.
If someone designed it they must have used a very primative and buggy
computer - what was that english one - the acorn? Or the kid on Bloom
County - did he have an apricot? It's all so confusing.
--Wade
Stryder
There's an interesting idea from "Dragons of Eden" by Carl Sagan that I'd
like to paraphrase...
Basically, he compares genesis with the theory of evolution and finds some
parallels. Human females suffer more pain and more complications from
childbirth than do other mammals. The reason for this is that our HEADS
ARE TOO BIG (well, I don't know about YOURS). Anyway, the rest of the
body pretty much glides through the birth canal, but the head causes a
lot of problems, both for the mom and for the child.
Now, genesis says that humans are cursed with a number of things, including
PAIN IN CHILDBIRTH, for EATING OF THE FRUIT OF THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE. I
guess you could say that if ol' Adam and Eve hadn't gotten a swelled head,
we wouldn't be in the fix we're in today. Then again, we'd be idiots.
Anyway, I think it's a pretty remarkable parallel. Sagan (rhymes with
Satan!!!) doesn't say out right that this is where the A&E myth comes
from, he's just speculating... and selling books.
But I think it's as good an explanation as any for where such a ridiculous
story would come from.
>--
>T. M. Cuffel "So do you have any experience watching children?"
> "Only from my car."
_____________________________________________________________________________
Prove to me that you're no fool,
Walk across my swimmin' pool.
(Tim Rice, Jesus Christ Superstar)
_____________________________________________________________________________
Herb Huston
}married people.
Our concealed ovulation, constant receptivity, and brief
fertile period in each menstrual cycle ensure that most
copulations by humans are at the wrong time for conception.
To make things worse, menstrual-cycle length varies more
between women, or from cycle to cycle in a given woman,
than for other female mammals. As a result, even young
newlyweds who omit contraception and make love at maximum
frequency have only a 28 percent probability of conception
per menstrual cycle. Animal breeders would be in despair
if a prize cow had such low fertility, but in fact they can
schedule a _single_ [emphasis in original] artificial in-
semination so that the cow has a 75 percent chance of being
fertilized!
Whatever the main function of human copulation, it isn't
conception, which is just an occasional by-product.
-- Jared Diamond, _The Third Chimpanzee_, 1992, Harpercollins, New York,
pages 77-8.
-- Herb Huston
-- hus...@access.digex.net
David Aaron Tepper
>umw...@cc.umanitoba.ca (Timothy John Woelk) writes:
>(Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:
>>>Did Adam and Eve ever have sex before the fall?
>>Here's the answer: did they need to?
>>Sex was designed for conception, and as a wonderful thing between two
>>married people.
>Then I say, Let's break out the torches and kill then animals what's
>having sex that was designed for us peoples - and just us married
>peoples at that. Look, thar's some dogs rutting in the street. Get
>'em. Why I bet they ain't even married - and the position they usin.
Which brings up a question I have. Is there any religious text that
says a couple *must* be in the missionary position for the Big S? I
seem to remember that there used to be laws in some states (and may
still be, for all I know), defining any other sexual position as
sodomy.
>And who designed it anyways? It's so *messy*. And then there's that
>story about the bettle that commits homosexual rape. I think the
>designer was drunk or is certainly one twisted perverted sort. Sex
>seems quite chaotic in fact - a desperate mixture of happenstance
>if you bother to learn about its varried incarnations thoughout the
>biological world.
Beetles, hell! You haven't heard about the killer lesbian
hermaphrodite lizards, have you? (Sig bait!)
[rest of parody deleted--and the Bloom County computer was a
Banana Jr., wasn't it?]
Dave
--
____
\bi/ Assume nothing; I don't speak for anyone other than myself.
\/ Expect anything! E-mail welcome; flames go to /dev/null.
Allen J. Newton
> In article <hines.7...@cgl.ucsf.edu> hi...@socrates.ucsf.edu (Wade Hines) writes:
> >umw...@cc.umanitoba.ca (Timothy John Woelk) writes:
> >(Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:
> >>>Did Adam and Eve ever have sex before the fall?
> >>Here's the answer: did they need to?
> >>Sex was designed for conception, and as a wonderful thing between two
> >>married people.
> >Then I say, Let's break out the torches and kill then animals what's
> >having sex that was designed for us peoples - and just us married
> >peoples at that. Look, thar's some dogs rutting in the street. Get
> >'em. Why I bet they ain't even married - and the position they usin.
>
> Which brings up a question I have. Is there any religious text that
> says a couple *must* be in the missionary position for the Big S? I
Nothing in the Bible, no... (Speaking ONLY for the Bible. The 'missionary
position' was so-named because missionaries of EUROPEAN descent were observed
to be using it by a certain tribe they were visiting. It was not the normal
sexual position in use by that tribe).
> seem to remember that there used to be laws in some states (and may
> still be, for all I know), defining any other sexual position as
> sodomy.
More European sensitivities...
>
> >And who designed it anyways? It's so *messy*. And then there's that
> >story about the bettle that commits homosexual rape. I think the
> >designer was drunk or is certainly one twisted perverted sort. Sex
> >seems quite chaotic in fact - a desperate mixture of happenstance
> >if you bother to learn about its varried incarnations thoughout the
> >biological world.
>
> Beetles, hell! You haven't heard about the killer lesbian
> hermaphrodite lizards, have you? (Sig bait!)
>
> [rest of parody deleted--and the Bloom County computer was a
> Banana Jr., wasn't it?]
It was a Banana Jr. One of only three ever made, and the other two died early
deaths. I remember when the Banana Jr. was mourning over being an orphan...
>
> Dave
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allen J. Newton | If you voted for Clinton,
ane...@alturia.abq.nm.us | I feel your pain...
Simon E Spero
Wade Hines <hi...@socrates.ucsf.edu> wrote:
>
>If someone designed it they must have used a very primative and buggy
>computer - what was that english one - the acorn? Or the kid on Bloom
The Acorn Atom was anything but primitive; you're thinking of the Sinclair
ZX80. You're skating perilously close to religious issues here. Don't make
me get the cricket bat out.
--
Hackers Local 42- National Union of Computer Operatives, Chapel Hill section
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Allen J. Newton
>In article <HIROI.130...@sn.jsc.nasa.gov> HI...@sn.jsc.nasa.gov (Takahiro Hiroi) writes:
>>In article <1994Feb23.0...@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcoc...@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:
>>>From: kcoc...@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
>>>Subject: Re: A Creationist speaks
>>>Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 02:03:27 GMT
>>
>>>[This is coming in late, so...]
>>
>>>In article <1994Feb17....@bbx.basis.com>,
>>>Allen J. Newton <ane...@alturia.abq.nm.us> wrote:
Yo, Chris!
I see you're waxing prolific today, but if you didn't include anything
I wrote in this post, why are you leaving the attribution line in?
And especially right before something I not only didn't write, but
never would have?
Please try to be more considerate of those readers who might not be
able to follow the attribution quote marks well...
>>
>>>IF, as you claim, the Bible (and God) don't want us to remain
>>>ignorant, what was that whole thing about a tree and some forbidden
>>>fruit, and "They have become like us; to know Good and Evil". By
>>>denying them the "apple", it sounds like God was trying to keep
>>>Adam and Eve in ignorance.
>>
>>>Oh, here's an odd question for somebody:
>>
>>>Did Adam and Eve ever have sex before the fall?
>>
>>I think Adam and Eve had sex when Adam fell. "Know" is often meant to have a
>>sexual intercourse in the bible, and "knowledge" can mean the similar thing.
>>For Eve to know how to deal with her sexual desire and organ is the most
>>important thing to realize God's blessing "Be fruitful, multiply, ..." The
>>serpent knew what God told Adam and Eve and tried to destroy God's plan. The
>>fact that Adam and Eve hid their lower part (sexual part) suggest they sinned
>>with their sexual organs instead of their mouth or hands that should be used
>>to take the "fruit".
>
>I thought Monty Python had disbanded.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allen J. Newton (ane...@alturia.abq.nm.us)
L. Drew Davis
>If someone designed it they must have used a very primative and buggy
>computer - what was that english one - the acorn? Or the kid on Bloom
>County - did he have an apricot? It's all so confusing.
I believe that was the "Banana Jr. 6000", which looked much like an
original Mac with legs. Once, when the machine was being recalcitrant,
Tech Support got it to work over the phone by informing it, "Look, if
you don't start working right now, we'll melt you down and reuse your
chips in toaster ovens. Do you hear me? TOASTER OVENS!".
I still find such a threat effective to this day. Try it on your
next mysterious failure.
--------------
L. Drew Davis Internet: dr...@cc.gatech.edu
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt5645c
You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment.
GREGORY J. SIDOR
>> >naturally, without pain. The pain of childbirth is the consequence of
>> >Eve's actions. Paul writes in one of his letters that women are saved
>> >through childbirth. (1 Corinthians, I think).
From an admittedly ignorant male perspective, the only ways that I
can see to make natural childbirth less painful would be to drasticaly
decrease the size of the newborn's head, or give women extremely wide pelvic
bones. I don't know about you, but I like my cranial capacity and I just
can't stand women with extremely wide hips.
Cadet Heathen
Steven Pirie-Shepherd
Heavens sake.
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__________________________________________________
Steven Pirie-Shepherd
sr...@galactose.mc.duke.edu
-=insert your own pithy phrase just about here=-
interesting little bitch
Actually during childbirth, the woman is told to bear down and push
the baby forcefully out. This uses all kinds of muscles and causes
a hell of a lot of pain. If you had just pulled a muscle running for
instance, not too many people would tell you to 'squeeze the muscle
as tight as you can'.
Something to think about.
Laura
>Cadet Heathen
Sarah A Norman
>>Cadet Heathen
Thanks for sharing. Maybe they don't like you either.