Nudity is NOT the root of all evil, money and greed is
Dario Western
> >as a matter of fact....today i read in the news that a local strip
> >club has been closed for nude dancing because of the resulting
> >prostitution.....while the owner does not have the dancers as
> >employees rather they are independant contractors expressing rights of
> >free speech.....so in this case children are not involved and it is
> >the nudity that is in question......
>
> No, it's the "resulting prostitution". Your reading comprehension
> sucks.
>
> -T.
"your reasoning ability is impaired .as typical of some nudist....and jim
jones followers...stop the nudity at nudist camps and you stop the
child sexual abuse and molestations.....stop the nudity at strip joints and
you stop the prosittution.......z"
This has got to be one of the most stupid rebuttals I've ever read. What
rot! What the hell have Jim Jones followers got to do with nudists? I'm
sure that even Peter Riden would laugh at you on this one, and a man of your
years should know better.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best wishes,
Dario Western
"A noble heart embiggens the smallest of men" - Jebediah Springfield
Mobile: (0437) 428-859
Website: http://picasaweb.google.com/westernorama
http://www.youtube.com/user/fatpizzaman
http://fatpizzaman.blogspot.com
http://www.orkut.com/Main#Profile?uid=2147852057525588972
Zee
wrote:
> Hey Bill,
>
> > >as a matter of fact....today i read in the news that a local strip
> > >club has been closed for nude dancing because of the resulting
> > >prostitution.....while the owner does not have the dancers as
> > >employees rather they are independant contractors expressing rights of
> > >free speech.....so in this case children are not involved and it is
> > >the nudity that is in question......
>
> > No, it's the "resulting prostitution". Your reading comprehension
> > sucks.
>
> > -T.
>
> "your reasoning ability is impaired .as typical of some nudist....and jim
> jones followers...stop the nudity at nudist camps and you stop the
> child sexual abuse and molestations.....stop the nudity at strip joints and
> you stop the prosittution.......z"
>
> This has got to be one of the most stupid rebuttals I've ever read. What
> rot! What the hell have Jim Jones followers got to do with nudists? I'm
> sure that even Peter Riden would laugh at you on this one, and a man of your
> years should know better.
>
> --
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dario Western
>
> "A noble heart embiggens the smallest of men" - Jebediah Springfield
>
> Mobile: (0437) 428-859
> Website:http://picasaweb.google.com/westernorama
> http://www.youtube.com/user/fatpizzaman
> http://fatpizzaman.blogspot.com
> http://www.orkut.com/Main#Profile?uid=2147852057525588972
no Dario....i am sure Peter knows the reverse side of the sheeple
nudist that have endorced the family nudist concept on a non stop
continuing basis....what you believe now is quite different to what
they believed a few decades ago.....so if you had been around then i
feel you have been lock step with what they advocated......you call it
rot but 99.99 percent of the pop believes it.....so how can you not
see that a small minority that you belong to is right....as how could
the 99.9 that saw jim jones followers so dedicated to his cult
teachings be that way....even you wonder how they could have been so
messed up in their minds in relation to the rest of society....when
you yourself are viewed the same way by the 99.9...regards.....z
Virtual Shadow
news:M9Dzp.4227$aH5....@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...
> Hey Bill, I love young boys, 'cause I'm a phaggot.
>
Peter Riden
rightly refers to the naivety of Jim Jones followers and the naivety
of some advocates of the "naturist/nudist" scope presented by a small
group as compared to what the rest of society at large obviously sees
differently. In both cases, the question could rightly be asked and
observed "even you wonder how they could have been so messed up in
their minds in relation to the rest of society....when you, yourself,
are viewed the same way by the 99.9". I welcome to be marginal from
society but make sure that you can't be challenged with what you offer
as alternatives but rather attracting many to look into your
alternatives..;-)
And yes, I "know the reverse side of the sheeple nudists that have
endorsed the family nudist concept on a non stop continuing basis."
And some of their motives could be put into serious questions.
But it's also well known that I have no problem with Nudity in
whichever context it is "expressing rights of free speech" when and if
it is approached with class and dignity.
http://thegrandbarn.com/jcow
In Friendship & Universality
Peter Riden {T.W.A.N. Founder}
http://www.the-worldwide-affiliate-network.com
http://www.myspace.com/peter_riden
http://www.myspace.com/conceptpeterriden
http://ca.youtube.com/user/PeterRiden
http://twitter.com/PeterRiden
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=512421792&ref=profile
{TGB Conceptor}:http://www.the-grand-barn.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Grand-Barn
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheGrandBarn
Zee
> On May 14, 6:25 pm, Zee <billmyr...@hughes.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 14, 3:15 pm, "Dario Western" <westernor...@nospamgmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Hey Bill,
>
> > > > >as a matter of fact....today i read in the news that a local strip
> > > > >club has been closed for nude dancing because of the resulting
> > > > >prostitution.....while the owner does not have the dancers as
> > > > >employees rather they are independant contractors expressing rights of
> > > > >free speech.....so in this case children are not involved and it is
> > > > >the nudity that is in question......
>
> > > > No, it's the "resulting prostitution". Your reading comprehension
> > > > sucks.
>
> > > > -T.
>
> > > "your reasoning ability is impaired .as typical of some nudist....and jim
> > > jones followers...stop the nudity at nudist camps and you stop the
> > > child sexual abuse and molestations.....stop the nudity at strip joints and
> > > you stop the prosittution.......z"
>
> > > This has got to be one of the most stupid rebuttals I've ever read. What
> > > rot! What the hell have Jim Jones followers got to do with nudists? I'm
> > > sure that even Peter Riden would laugh at you on this one, and a man of your
> > > years should know better.
>
> > > --
>
> In Friendship & Universality
> Peter Riden {T.W.A.N. Founder}http://www.the-worldwide-affiliate-network.comhttp://www.myspace.com/peter_ridenhttp://www.myspace.com/conceptpeterridenhttp://ca.youtube.com/user/PeterRidenhttp://twitter.com/PeterRidenhttp://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=512421792&ref=profile
>
> - Show quoted text -
yeah Peter....you can understand why i have stayed around here so long
as it is astounding the naivety of some humans....some nudist are as
close to the jim jones cult followers as you can get in order to
realize the mentality and personna character etc....of people with
this affliction.....it is sad in a way that things can be turned into
a cult following because of a few that really spend their life looing
for a line to get in or someone to follow .....i think Dario has a
mind of his own at times but at other times he chooses to accept what
he has been told and goes into a state of denial.......i like to live
between the worlds of people as it leaves one the choice to do things
with class and dignity as you so rightly state........regards...your
friend.....bill
Peter Riden
> > {TGB Conceptor}:http://www.the-grand-barn.comhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Grand-...Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> yeah Peter....you can understand why i have stayed around here so long
> as it is astounding the naivety of some humans....some nudist are as
> close to the jim jones cult followers as you can get in order to
> realize the mentality and personna character etc....of people with
> this affliction.....it is sad in a way that things can be turned into
> a cult following because of a few that really spend their life looing
> for a line to get in or someone to follow .....i think Dario has a
> mind of his own at times but at other times he chooses to accept what
> he has been told and goes into a state of denial.......i like to live
> between the worlds of people as it leaves one the choice to do things
> with class and dignity as you so rightly state........regards...your
> friend.....bill
minimized and a lot of my time is to take care of more important
matters at THE GRAND BARN, you know very well, Bill, that I do
concentrate on more fruitful venues when it comes to publicizing my
ventures. The last decade has seen a surge of new outlets and some
being my own that are really gathering the like-minded ones so that
being in here becomes a passing-by gesture and see how the interaction
goes. The same few disgruntled ones are keeping at it the same old
ways, Jenny getting off on Tom and Dan Abel adding his usual
lamentations when it comes to Peter Riden. Other than that, most are
gone or have given more stage presence to "Anna" coming with its daily
"futilities". So, rather than wasting time here for more than
necessary, I find myself bringing the usual reminder that we have the
alternative to this placid presentation offered by our current
dissatisfied trio.
So for a much more uptempo approach to living life to the full I'm
also a full participant at http://thegrandbarn.com/jcow
In Friendship & Universality
Peter Riden {T.W.A.N. Founder}
Anna
Dario, have you done anything with your life except delivering pizzas?
Why do you think the rest of us owe you ANYTHING!?!?
I so hope someone puts a bullet in your fucking fat head because I
know where your thinking leads. And it leads to piles and piles of
skulls!
http://www.working-minds.com/money.htm
"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco
d'Aconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a
tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced
and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the
principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by
trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers,
who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from
you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is
this what you consider evil?
"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so
only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of
the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give
value to money. Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world
can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you
will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should
have been gold, are a token of honor – your claim upon the energy of
the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that
somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default
on that moral principle which is the root of money. Is this what you
consider evil?
"Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at
an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by
the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat
without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for
the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but
physical motions – and you'll learn that man's mind is the root of all
the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on
earth.
"But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of
the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or
muscles. Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. Then is
money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who
did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of
the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the
ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is made – before it can be
looted or mooched – made by the effort of every honest man, each to
the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he
can't consume more than he has produced.
"To trade by means of money is the code of the men of good will.
Money rests on the axiom that every man is the owner of his mind and
his effort. Money allows no power to prescribe the value of your
effort except by the voluntary choice of the man who is willing to
trade you his effort in return. Money permits you to obtain for your
goods and your labor that which they are worth to the men who buy
them, but no more. Money permits no deals except those to mutual
benefit by the unforced judgment of the traders. Money demands of you
the recognition that men must work for their own benefit, not for
their own injury, for their gain, not their loss – the recognition
that they are not beasts of burden, born to carry the weight of your
misery – that you must offer them values, not wounds – that the common
bond among men is not the exchange of suffering, but the exchange of
goods. Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men's
stupidity, but your talent to their reason; it demands that you buy,
not the shoddiest they offer, but the best your money can find. And
when men live by trade – with reason, not force, as their final
arbiter – it is the best product that wins, the best performance, then
man of best judgment and highest ability – and the degree of a man's
productiveness is the degree of his reward. This is the code of
existence whose tool and symbol is money. Is this what you consider
evil?
"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish,
but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means
for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with
desires. Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the
law of causality – the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the
products of the mind.
"Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no
concept of what he wants; money will not give him a code of values, if
he's evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide
him with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money
will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward,
or respect for the incompetent. The man who attempts to purchase the
brains of his superiors to serve him, with his money replacing his
judgment, ends up by becoming the victim of his inferiors. The men of
intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking
to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be
smaller than his money. Is this the reason why you call it evil?
Anna
>
> In Friendship & Universality
> Peter Riden {T.W.A.N. Founder}http://www.the-worldwide-affiliate-network.comhttp://www.myspace.com/peter_ridenhttp://www.myspace.com/conceptpeterridenhttp://ca.youtube.com/user/PeterRidenhttp://twitter.com/PeterRidenhttp://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=512421792&ref=profile
> {TGB Conceptor}:http://www.the-grand-barn.comhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Grand-Barnhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheGrandBarn
Of course you don't believe that nonsexualized mixed gender nudity is
possible which of course is a legitimate position and would be one
that would negate the possibility of the family nudist concept.
Dario Western
Please keep a watch on your wife. I think she's going to get a heart attack
or cancer if she continues venting her hatred like this on rec.nude ;-)
"http://www.working-minds.com/money.htm
"Or did you say it's the love of money that's the root of all evil? To love
a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love
the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you, and your
passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best among men. It's the
person who would sell his soul for a nickel, who is the loudest in
proclaiming his hatred of money – and he has good reason to hate it. The
lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know they are able to
deserve it."
No it's not. God is. God creates metals and trees. In the Bible, Jesus
Christ warned his followers: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye
of a needle, than for a rich man to inherit God's Kingdom". But then again
you've disavowed Christianity because you choose to make an idol of work and
yourself before God.
And let's not forget Timothy 6: 9 - 20:
9People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many
foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10For
the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for
money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
11But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness,
godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 12Fight the good fight of
the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you
made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13In the sight
of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while
testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14to
keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord
Jesus Christ, 15which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed
and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone is immortal
and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To
him be honor and might forever. Amen.
17Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to
put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in
God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18Command
them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to
share. 19In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm
foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that
is truly life.
20Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from
godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge,
21which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith.
Grace be with you.
"Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who damns
money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it."
Dishonourably means stealing, and I agree that stealing is wrong.
"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That
sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live
together on earth and need means to deal with one another – their only
substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."
What about living on a tropical island or in the jungles where they can live
off the land and hunt for their food?
"But money demands of you the highest virtues, if you wish to make it or to
keep it. Men who have no courage, pride, or self-esteem,
men who have no moral sense of their right to their money and are not
willing to defend it as they defend their life, men who apologize for
being rich – will not remain rich for long. They are the natural bait for
the swarms of looters that stay under rocks for centuries, but
come crawling out at the first smell of a man who begs to be forgiven for
the guilt of owning wealth. They will hasten to relieve him of the
guilt – and of his life, as he deserves."
Huh?! Most rich people are crooked and corrupt like Rupert Murdoch, the
Pope, the Royal Family. Power and greed corrupts, and absolute power
corrupts absolutely.
"Then you will see the rise of the double standard – the men who live by
force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the
value of their looted money – the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In
a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes
are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes
criminals-by-right and looters-by-law – men who use force
to seize the wealth of disarmed victims – then money becomes its creators'
avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless
men, once they've passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the
magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it.
Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most
ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins
over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins
and slaughter."
The only way a society vanishes is if it is destroyed by a nuclear bomb.
"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the
barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that
trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion – when you see that in
order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who
produce nothing – when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not
in goods, but in favors – when you see that men get richer
by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against
them, but protect them against you – when you see corruption
being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice – you may know that
your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that it does
not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not
permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot."
Money is not the baromater of a society's virtue, altruism is. When you
trade, trade wisely and fairly. Corruption should NOT be rewarded, yet many
rich people are getting away with things that they would never be able to
get away with if they were poor. If money does not compete with guns, then
we should have no need for guns in the first place. Selfishness on the
other hand should be punishable by exile.
"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for
money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers
seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills
all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an
arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of
wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed
by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check
drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue
of the victims. Watch for the day when it becomes, marked: 'Account
overdrawn.'
What is needed is a brand new monetary system which is entirely visible and
entirely traceable. Get rid of the guns and taxes and replace them all with
a flat tax of 2% on all goods and services, and on every shelf in the stores
have two price tags: the price the customer has to pay for the item, and the
price that it costs to produce and distribute it. That way there will be no
more greed or corruption, because it will be impossible for anybody to do
anything that they don't want others to know about. Down with the closets,
the Masonic temples etc. etc.
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain
good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose
of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when
production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, 'Who is destroying
the world?' You are."
The world can never be destroyed, but our way of living can. Our Western
world has made money an idol, a violation of one of the most important
commandments that God has given us next to 'you shall not commit murder'.
To hold a person at gunpoint and demand money of them is the lowest form of
behaviour. You may get that money, but you will never be happy with
yourself no matter how much you amass that way.
--
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Dario Western
"I don't think it is a laughing matter, Dario, when Bill's analogy rightly
refers to the naivety of Jim Jones followers and the naivety of some
advocates of the "naturist/nudist" scope presented by a small group as
compared to what the rest of society at large obviously sees differently."
First up, have you ever heard of any nudist equivalent to Jim Jones or even
David Koresh for that matter? The "rest of society" are the ones who don't
understand, and through its ignorance seeks to vilify and lampoon nudists.
And the few people who do decide to get into nudism do not do so just on the
spur of the moment. They do careful research and look at it from both sides
of the coin before deciding whether to hit a nudist beach or visit a nudist
establishment.
"In both cases, the question could rightly be asked and observed "even you
wonder how they could have been so messed up in their minds in relation to
the rest of society....when you, yourself, are viewed the same way by the
99.9".
Good question. Nudists want acceptance and co-existence, and this is why we
have people like Vincent Bethell (though he doesn't classify himself as a
nudist as such), Morley Schloss, Cheri Alexander and Mark Storey on the
scene.
"I welcome to be marginal from society but make sure that you can't be
challenged with what you offer as alternatives but rather attracting many to
look into your
alternatives..;-)"
As I've said before, I like the way that you run your business and that you
do celebrate people who are often ostracised and marginalised not only by
the textile world, but also the nudist world - there are also some
homophobic nudists in Australia as well.
"And yes, I "know the reverse side of the sheeple nudists that have endorsed
the family nudist concept on a non stop continuing basis."
And some of their motives could be put into serious questions. But it's also
well known that I have no problem with Nudity in
whichever context it is "expressing rights of free speech" when and if it is
approached with class and dignity."
Agreed.
--
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