Why Pope Pius the 12th did not excommunicate Hitler
ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW
Why Pope Pius the 12th did not excommunicate Hitler
Excerpt from "The Real Story of Pius XII and the Jews"
By James Bogle
{Barrister of the Middle Temple, and former cavalry officer.
From: Catalyst, Vol. 23, No. 10, December 1996}
>snip<
The fact that some bad Catholics allowed themselves to become involved
with the Nazi terror cannot be blamed on Pope Pius XII-any more than the
fact that there were Jewish Kapos and a Jewish police helping the Nazis
enforce their extermination policies can be blamed upon Jewish religious
leaders. Pius XII plainly repudiated the perverted doctrines of the Nazis
and also the immoral Fascist doctrines of Benito Mussolini (which had been
condemned in the encyclical "Non Abbiamo Bisogno" meaning 'we have
no need' i.e. of Fascist doctrines)
He is also sometimes criticized for not excommunicating Hitler, but
Hitler was already excommunicated "ipso facto" for a whole range of
crimes and could only have returned to the Catholic faith, even assuming
that he would ever have wanted to, by having his excommunication lifted
by the Pope himself. The lifting of the sentence was reserved to the Holy
See, "latue sententiae". Besides, the complaint assumes that Hitler
took some notice of the Holy See and the Catholic Church. Insofar as he did
it was for purely political reasons, since he was forced to recognize the
influence of the Catholic Church and the Papacy
Pax et Bonum
Jim Carew sfo
Sherwood
RACIST MASS murderer.
By the way, why did the Catholic Church go out of the way to disfellowship
others in it's 1,500yr+ history. I mean, many many others were
disfellowshipped with great notariety.
EXPLAIN this away too
Peace to you :-)
ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW
Sherwood <skto...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>A Mass murderer,,,,,,,,,, go ahead and EXCUSE the Catholic Church for this
>RACIST MASS murderer.
Read the excerpt from the article a little closer that's not what was said.
Hitler classed him self as a pagan. Hitler described himself as 'a complete
pagan' (see Hitler's "Table Talk") and regarded the Catholic Church as his
greatest enemy, which he would destroy when he had the opportunity.
As to Hitler being a Catholic. His ultimate goal was to destroy
Christianity and replace it with a religion of the old pagan Germanic
gods. During the war a thirty-point program for a "National Reich
Church" was formed. Here are a few of its tenets:
5. The National Church is determined to exterminate irrevocably...
Christian faiths imported into Germany in the ill-omened year 800
[i.e., Catholicism]
7. The National Church has no scribes, pastors, chaplains or priests,
but National Reich orators are to speak in them.
13. The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing
and dissemination of the Bible in Germany.
18. The National Church will clear away from its altars all crucifixes,
Bibles and pictures of saints.
30. On the day of its foundation, the Christian Cross must be removed
from all churches, cathedrals and chapels... and it must be superseded
by the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika.
Source Shirer's *Rise and Fall of the Third Reich*, particularly pp.234-240.
>By the way, why did the Catholic Church go out of the way to
>disfellowship others in it's 1,500yr+ history. I mean, many
>others were disfellowshipped with great notariety.
> EXPLAIN this away too
> Peace to you :-)
Define "disfellowshipped" ?
Sherwood
Catholic Faith stayed silent.
Peace to you :-)
ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW
Sherwood <skto...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> AFTER the FACT,,,,, This is known to the WORLD,,,,,,,,yet, the
> Catholic Faith stayed silent.
Explain this excerpt from Catholic Answer's "This Rock", February
1997, pp. 12-17,
How Pius XII Protected the Jews, by James Akin:
Before he was elected Pope, Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli [the future Pope Pius
XII] was the Vatican Secretary of State. On 28 April 1935, Cardinal
Pacelli gave a speech to an audience of 250,000 pilgrims at Lourdes, France
stating that the Nazis are in reality only miserable plagiarists who dress
up old errors with new tinsel. It does not make any difference whether they
flock to the banners of social revolution, whether they are guided by a
false concept of the world and of life, or whether they are possessed by
the superstition of a race and blood cult.
It was speeches like this, in addition to private remarks and numerous
notes of protest that Pacelli sent to Berlin in his capacity as Vatican
Secretary of State that earned him a reputation as an enemy of the Nazi
party. The Germans were likewise displeased with the reigning pontiff,
Pius XI, who showed himself to be an unrelenting opponent of the new German
"ideals", even writing an entire encyclical "Mit Brennender Sorge" (1937)
to condemn them. When Pius XI died in 1939, the Nazis abhorred the prospect
that Pacelli might be elected successor. This encyclical is the only one up
to then, that had not been titled in Latin, precisely to get the Germans'
attention.
Dr Joseph Lichten, a Polish Jew who served as a diplomat and later an
official of B'nai B'rith, writes:
Pacelli had obviously established his position clearly, for the Fascist
governments of both Italy and Germany spoke vigorously against the
possibility of his election to succeed Pius XI in 1939, though the Cardinal
had served as papal nuncio to Germany from 1917 to 1929. The day after his
election, the "Berlin Morgenpost" said 'The election of Cardinal Pacelli is
not accepted with favor in Germany because he has always opposed Nazism
and practically determined the policies of the Vatican under his
predecessor.
Former Israeli diplomat and now Orthodox Jewish Rabbi Pinchas Lapide
states that Pius XI had:
. . . good reason to make Pacelli the architect of his anti-Nazi policy.
Off the forty-four speeches which the nuncio Pacelli had made on German soil
between 1917 and 1929, at least forty contained attacks on called it
'neo-Paganism'.
A few weeks after Pacelli was elected Pope, the German Reich's Chief
Security Service issued a then-secret report on the Pope. Rabbi Lapide
provides an excerpt:
Pacelli has already made himself prominent by his attacks on National
Socialism during his tenure as Cardinal Secretary of State, a fact which
earned him the hearty approval of the Democratic States during the Papal
elections... How much Pacelli is celebrated as an ally of the Democracies
is especia
War came to Europe on 1 Sep 1939, when German troops invaded Poland,
and Britain and France declared war on Germany. Early in 1940, Hitler made
an attempt to prevent the new Pope from maintaining the anti-Nazi stance
he had taken before his election. Hitler sent his underling, Joachim von
Ribbentrop to try to dissuade Pius XII from following his predecessor's
policies. Von Ribbentrop, granted a formal papal audience, went into a
lengthy harangue on the invincibility of the Third Reich, the inevitability
of a Nazi victory, and the futility of papal alignment with the enemies
of the Fuhrer. Pius XII heard von Ribbentrop out politely and impassively.
Then he opened an enormous ledger on his desk, and in perfect German, began
to recite a catalogue of the persecutions inflicted by the Third Reich
in Poland, listing the date, place and precise details of every crime.
The audience was terminated; the Pope's position was clearly unshakable.
> > >By the way, why did the Catholic Church go out of the way to
> > >disfellowship others in it's 1,500yr+ history. I mean, many
> > >others were disfellowshipped with great notoriety.
> >
> > > EXPLAIN this away too
> >
> > > Peace to you :-)
> >
> > Define "disfellowshiped" ?
You still have not defined "disfellowship"
Thanks for your help
Jim Carew sfo
Sherwood
Peace to you :-)
Harrison's
thread...but what faith are you? If you don't mind me asking :)
Sherwood <skto...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:37B68304...@ix.netcom.com...
Harrison's
you are a JW...thanx anyway
Michael Dean
> Our Sunday Visitor (from the 1980's) which addressed this question of why
> Hitler wasn't excommunicated from the Catholic Church. The answer was:
> because he excommunicated himself, (meaning: did not perform his Easterly
> duties) and he went over to the Lutheran Church in Germany. Therefore, if any
> excommunication was to be done, the Lutheran Church would've been the one to
> do it. If I ever find the article I may put it here one day.
Huldah
> >Just Curious Sherwood...this may already be discussed in another
> >thread...but what faith are you? If you don't mind me asking :)
>
> Hint: They knock on doors and only 144,000 of them are
> going to heaven.
Another Hint: Their slogan used to be, 'Millions Now Living Will Never
Die', but as the generation that saw 1914 shuffles off to the rest home,
they may want to grab some of those old books and pencil in, 'Two or
Three Now Living Will Never Die'.
Fredericka
Ray Todd Sevens
>From: Sherwood <skto...@ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: Re: Why Pope Pius the 12th did not excommunicate Hitler
>Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 22:47:35 -0600
>A Mass murderer,,,,,,,,,, go ahead and EXCUSE the Catholic Church for this
>RACIST MASS murderer.
> By the way, why did the Catholic Church go out of the way to disfellowship
>others in it's 1,500yr+ history. I mean, many many others were
>disfellowshipped with great notariety.
Actually I would have to list being able to get away with it as one reason.
Had the Pope for good or bad said anything that suficiantly annoyed the dude
he would has simply leveled the vatician.
>EXPLAIN this away too
>Peace to you :-)
>ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW wrote:
>> JMJ
Ray Todd Sevens
>From: Sherwood <skto...@ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: Re: Why Pope Pius the 12th did not excommunicate Hitler
>AFTER the FACT,,,,, This is known to the WORLD,,,,,,,,yet, the
>Catholic Faith stayed silent.
And in many cases DID a great deal. The question even came up after the war
which was more important speaking against the evil or doing somehting about
it. There are still those who say speaking is more important. By the way I
am not Catholic and have a great many thing I could say about this
organization, this is just not one of them. Lets limit ourselves to problems
that actually exist.
>ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW wrote:
>> JMJ
>>
>> Sherwood <skto...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >A Mass murderer,,,,,,,,,, go ahead and EXCUSE the Catholic Church for this
>> >RACIST MASS murderer.
>>
>> Read the excerpt from the article a little closer that's not what was said.
>> Hitler classed him self as a pagan. Hitler described himself as 'a complete
>> pagan' (see Hitler's "Table Talk") and regarded the Catholic Church as his
>> greatest enemy, which he would destroy when he had the opportunity.
>>
>> As to Hitler being a Catholic. His ultimate goal was to destroy
>> Christianity and replace it with a religion of the old pagan Germanic
>> gods. During the war a thirty-point program for a "National Reich
>> Church" was formed. Here are a few of its tenets:
>>
>> 5. The National Church is determined to exterminate irrevocably...
>> Christian faiths imported into Germany in the ill-omened year 800
>> [i.e., Catholicism]
>>
>> 7. The National Church has no scribes, pastors, chaplains or priests,
>> but National Reich orators are to speak in them.
>>
>> 13. The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing
>> and dissemination of the Bible in Germany.
>>
>> 18. The National Church will clear away from its altars all crucifixes,
>> Bibles and pictures of saints.
>>
>> 30. On the day of its foundation, the Christian Cross must be removed
>> from all churches, cathedrals and chapels... and it must be superseded
>> by the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika.
>>
>> Source Shirer's *Rise and Fall of the Third Reich*, particularly pp.234-240.
>>
>> >By the way, why did the Catholic Church go out of the way to
>> >disfellowship others in it's 1,500yr+ history. I mean, many
>> >others were disfellowshipped with great notariety.
>>
>> > EXPLAIN this away too
>>
>> > Peace to you :-)
>>
>> Define "disfellowshipped" ?
Alan Craft
>Just Curious Sherwood...this may already be discussed in another
>thread...but what faith are you? If you don't mind me asking :)
Hint: They knock on doors and only 144,000 of them are
going to heaven.
Alan
James T. Savidge
Sherwood wrote:
> A Mass murderer,,,,,,,,,, go ahead and EXCUSE the Catholic Church for this
> RACIST MASS murderer.
Recently Kevin Beach posted the following about Pius XII and Hitler.
Subject: Pius XII and Hitler
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:54:51 +0000
From: Kevin Beach <kevin...@cwcom.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
"Vatican Radio denounces Nazi Acts in Poland"
- Jewish Advocate, Boston, 26 January 1940
"Laval spurns Pope; 25,000 Jews in france arrested for deportation".
- Canadian Jewish Chronicle, 4 September 1942
"Vatican gives assurance of Aid to Jews"
- California Jewish Voice, 12 February 1943
"Jewish hostages in rome: Vatican protests"
Jewish Chronicle, london, 29 October 1943
"Hungary gets Pope's appeal"
- Jewish advocate, 20 July 1944
"TRUE BROTHERHOOD. With Rome liberated, it has been determined,
indeed, that 7,000 of Italy's 40,000 Jews owe their lives to the
Vatican.....Placing these golden deeds alongside the intercession of
Pope Pius XII with the regent of Hungary on behalf of Hungarian Jews, we
feel an immeasurable degree of gratitude towards our Catholic brethren"
- The American Israelite, Cincinnati, 27 July 1944.
"Adherents of all creeds and parties will recall how Pius XII faced the
responsibilities of his exalted office with courage and devotion.
Before, during and after the Second World War, he constantly preached
the message of peace. Confronted by the monstrous cruelties of Nazism,
Fascism and Communism, he repeatedly proclaimed the virtues of humanity
and compassion".
- The Jewish Chronicle, London, 10 October 1958.
In 1995 the World Council of Jews declared that it was satisfied, from
evidence revealed by its own investigations, that the Catholic Church
was responsible for saving at least 850,000 Jews from the Nazis during
the Holocaust.
Kevin
< end quote >
> By the way, why did the Catholic Church go out of the way to disfellowship
> others in it's 1,500yr+ history. I mean, many many others were
> disfellowshipped with great notariety.
>
> EXPLAIN this away too
>
> Peace to you :-)
>
> ANGIE-ANNETTE CAREW wrote:
>
> > JMJ
May God lead us to a fuller understanding of His truth and may His peace go with
you.
James T. Savidge, <tsav...@fastlane.net>, Tuesday, August 17, 1999
--
1 Peter 3:8-15
[8] Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a
tender heart and a humble mind. [9] Do not return evil for evil or reviling for
reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you
may obtain a blessing. [10] For "He that would love life and see good days, let
him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking guile; [11] let him turn
away from evil and do right; let him seek peace and pursue it. [12] For the eyes
of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the
face of the Lord is against those that do evil." [13] Now who is there to harm you
if you are zealous for what is right? [14] But even if you do suffer for
righteousness' sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled,
[15] but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a
defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it
with gentleness and reverence;