I mention the two incident together because they are related. They are
related to a judgmental spirit that is not of God. And in that Glenn is not
alone. While we all may venture there at times, the Kupps, David Matthieu,
Mike Bugal, Matt Brooks and others tend to demonstrate this spirit excess --
and sometimes with a streak of cruelty to it that definitely is not from
This is what I would share with Glenn specifically, but to all who think the
Gospel we were called share is about judging others:
Too many of us here Glenn have seen you pronounce fervent as a false
prophet - so I don't need to present "evidence" for it is there (and in
respect to you, current) for all to see.
What I would ask Glenn is if you are a prophet yourself? Is the Spirit of
Prophecy in you? The that Spirit would remind you of this passage:
1Co 14:31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and
all may be exhorted;
1Co 14:32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets;
1Co 14:33 for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the
churches of the saints.
If you are not a Prophet Glenn, then it is not for you to place fervent as
subject to your judgment.
You have said:
>one key ingredient is "which I have not commanded him to speak..."
>God is saying, specifically, and without equivocation, that He does
>command the prophets what to say...
>Therefore, for a man to "wing it" or conceive it in his own mind, makes
>him a false prophet.
Look again at the passage above, and note it is from the old dispensation --
where there was no written or Living Word yet manifest. Remember, under
Christ, all we are "commanded commanded to speak" is of Christ! What we are
"allowed" is to speak using Gifts of Teaching and Exhortation and the other
Gifts of the Spirit, to build up, to support, to testify, to encourage --
all of the good things that modern Prophet Hunters tend to be lacking in.
Read from the New Covenant Glenn! ALL can prophesy! Yet few do, because
they have not the faith to realize that what is commanded and what is
allowed, has changed! God allows much of His children now. Even unto
making mistakes in the learning of how the Gifts He has given us operate in
Remember, what we are to prophecy about today, is the Word. It is not about
"foreseeing the future", beyond "foreseeing the future that is Christ".
This is about more than just one Gift of the Spirit - Prophesy - but about
the general way in which the Spirit of God moved. If you misunderstand how
God chooses to work through His people concerning all the gifts, then you
might jump to the erroneous conclusion that free will is no part of it
concerning just one of the gifts.
That is why "the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets" - which ties
into what I shared previous about the effective discernment of what is
false. First you have to know the real thing. You do Glenn. It takes
someone who knows how the Spirit works generally in all the Gifts, and
specifically in Prophesy, to try to stand as judge over them and call them
false or true.
Unless Glenn McClary is a prophet in the body of Christ, then he might not
be in a position to run around judging others as false based on
I will explain from examples in Scripture:
First of all, the examples of Nehemiah and Esther - followed with a chaser
of Ruth. These are not specific examples of prophets, but are valid
examples of the same Spirit of God at work in people (for if they were not,
I suggest that they would not be in Scripture for the purpose of teaching us
just HOW God chooses to work through people!).
At no place do we see where a command is given by God for them to do what
they did. They were all godly people who were familiar with God and how He
worked, who saw something that needed to be done and did it. Did you know
that while the book of Ruth is Spiritually powerful, God is not mentioned
once in that entire book? These were god fearing people, wilfully
exercising the particular gifts they had been given.
The same holds with Jonathan when he said to his armor-bearer,
"Come and let us cross over to the garrison of these uncircumcised; perhaps
the LORD will work for us, for the LORD is not restrained to save by many or
While I agree these are not instances of Prophesy, they do help set the
stage from which we will look at Elijah and Elisha.
Take a moment and re-familiarize yourself with their works.
Now do you think these prophets were simply zombies that God "possessed"?
Did He have his hand stuffed up their robes making their lips move, or was
there more of a relationship at work. One in which they decided to open
their mouths and speak and move their feet and go. While there are examples
were it is written, "And God spoke to Elijah and told him, go .. .. .",
there are even more examples where there are not. Was God forcing Elisha to
throw the stick to make the axe-head float? Did He say to Elijah, "Psst!
Throw down your cloak on the River Jordan. Good! Now walk across. That's
right! Now challenge all 450 prophets of Baal. OK, now pour water on it .
How much of this was Elijah consciously doing these things, and how much of
it was God ordering and commanding?
We know from Nehemiah and Esther that there was no ordering or commanding
from Him, but simply two people willing to step out in a model according to
what they understood from their very healthy fear of God.
I would further suggest, that the very nature of prophesy has changed.
Back in OT times, there was no written word of God and certainly no Living
Word. All there were, were people running about the landscape saying "this
saith the Lord, thus saith the Lord". It was into this climate that God
first set out the penalty for false prophets -- for it was a time in which
there was nothing for godly comparison and the testing of Spirits and there
was great potential for misleading. Anyone who from this platform in
history tried to mislead any about God's word or will, was killed.
Flash ahead to today. We have both the Living Word and the written word to
give us the wisdom we need to discern false and true. Prophets of old spoke
the word of God -- but once the Living Word came, prophets now speak of the
Word of God. About Jesus. That is our job.
So as there is a new Word, there are new prophets, who's job is to speak
about the Word -- Jesus. So would the false prophets that Jesus warned us
about today, not be those who did not speak that word but instead, would run
around trying to condemn others, judge them based on past deeds, point
fingers at others, look for fallasy under every bush, cause emnity and
strife and faction . . .
Basically any who open their mouth and speak of anything BUT Jesus crucified
When Jesus said,
"Beware the false prophets", was he speaking of those who would speak from a
personal knowledge of Him -- but of their own volition -- to His kingdom
Or of those who's mouths and hearts and minds were full of all manner of
things that were not about him?
Phi 4:5 Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near.
Phi 4:6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and
supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
Phi 4:7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard
your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Phi 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable,
whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good
repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell
on these things.
Are we to be anxious about people being misled? (Concerned in a godly way,
yes; but so anxious that we shift focus off of Christ, no). Are we to be
brutal to them? Are we to be focussing on where there is failure and where
there is evil and where there is misleading? God says no.
We can still warn of fallasy. That is Scriptural.
But many of the Prophet Hunters of ACC have stepped far outside of Christ
and God's will to do what they wish of their own volition -- and what they
wish it seems is to talk about everything except Christ.
Would that not make them, the very false prophets of Christ . . .
that they run around claiming everyone else is???
Rom 2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment,
for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge
practice the same things.
Rom 2:2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who
practice such things.
Rom 2:3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who
practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the
judgment of God?
Yours in His service,
>Been wanting to say this for a long time and in the flesh I live and die so
>like "fuck you and the horse you rode in on".....see you at the pit....
>under the rock
From: "fervent" <fer...@telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: A Son's Prayer For His Elderly Mother
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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:33:49 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:33:49 MDT
>So fuck you and the horse you rode in on, pal
"ACC on CULL" <acc_o...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> Born-again Christians at the newsgroup alt.christnet.christianlife
> (ACC) are accustomed now to reading lies after lies from fervent. But
> don't expect them to call him a liar any time soon. Sure, fervent
> admitted, "the easy access of the internet [to porn] got hold of me
> for a season!" And sure, he wrote, "I 'pissed off'...those...[who] go
> around with a twisted stick up their ass...[saying] the rest of us are
> in (sh)'it' up to our ears... I would not give the sweat off my
> balls to impress [them] with my vicarious wit." But so what?! Isn't
> it more important to remember that at a Toronto Blessing prayer line
> fervent received "the anointing" and "the gift of the Holy Spirit"?
> How quickly these born-again Christians forget that it was fervent
> himself who felt compelled to offer proofs that he's filled with the
> Holy Spirit. One proof is "I no longer wanted to watch pornography!"
> and the second, "I quit cursing!" And so, if fervent is still a
> foul-mouthed porn addict, that means he's not filled with the Holy
> Spirit, right? Not necessarily, according to these born-again
> Christians. But how can they say that when fervent himself felt the
> need to establish a necessary correspondence between being
> Spirit-filled and being porn-and-profanity-free? They can say that
> because, you see, they're complacent toward lies to begin with and
> toward Christian liars all along!
> How complacent, though, are they? What if fervent makes Jesus Christ
> lie for him about the year 2003? Will they remain complacent even
> toward this biggest lie from fervent? Yes, they will. Sure, they've
> read this false prophecy from Christ posted by fervent: "2003 shall
> bring forth the manifestation of the 'fullness' of the office of
> apostle and because of this every other office of the five-fold
> ministry shall finally reach its 'full manifestation' in the local
> Church." But so what if none of these things take place, now that the
> year's almost over? Even the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ can
> sometimes not know what He's talking about, right? But of course,
> right, says fervent and his born-again Christian friends at ACC as
> they continue in their lies for Satan!
love to all
in christ whose blood alone is sufficient for your salvation.
Seems you have your own agenda Glenn.
Perhaps you should stop posting, take a rest and
reflect a bit. You talk about discernment yet you
don't seem to be using any.
Either stop it or prove your accusations
A victim of Grizzle Guts wrote ...
... And the constant Fervent emails, I first met him years and years ago and
sometimes he would pop up in my msn, and wanted me to talk sex with him, he
is a porn addict, not converted as he says, he still does it as often as he
did before, repents and goes awhile without doing it and then does it again
and repents, a cycle. .....
In Fervent's OWN words ...
> >Not the least of these were and addiction to porn in my past life which
> >I stayed clear of for over four years from my infilling with the glory
> >light which shines from above. That was until the easy access of the
> >internet got hold of me for a season! Try as I might, it was just too
> >flashy a drawing card with just too many inadvertent "pop ups" to display
> >wares! I have been delivered and I have escaped but there has been a
> >scarring of my peace and a reluctant admission before God that I am not
> >all I thought I was!
Welcome to the Free ACC: "That Sweet Forum of Liberty!"
1. This is a public unmoderated newsgroup.
2. Griz is an arrogant, deluded quack.
Vera 666 CENSORS her webshite!!!! She writes under Important Information
her censorship rules ....
People who do not accept that will not have approval to be represented on
the ACC Web Site.
Of course the BABY CHRISTIAN VERA 666 (3 and a half years a Christian)
determines who is a TREW KRISTYUN!!!!
Her Grizzle Guts' cult wants to censor this UNMODERATED public forum for
ALL Christians at alt.christnet.christianlife !!!!
We are here to DISCUSS!!!
ACC IS A PUBLIC UNMODERATED FORUM in the Alt NG hierarchy which according to
the FAQ for Alt NGs [ http://www.visi.com/~barr/alt-creation-guide.html]
....is a "refuge away from the control freaks, namespace purists and
net.cops ... that maintain and enforce the mainstream newsgroup guidelines."
ACC = alt.christian.christianlife which BY ITS TITLE is dedicated to
ANYTHING which comes up during CHRISTIAN LIFE.
ALL Christians from ALL denominations are welcome and NO Christian is
banned or censored at alt.christnet.christianlife.
How to Identify GRIZZLE GUTS' Counterfeit, Manipulative, and Controlling
(CHRISTIAN) Content Which Is Biblical - (GRIZZLE GUTS) Content Which Is
(CHRISTIAN) Teaches/matures - (GRIZZLE GUTS) Indoctrinates / clones
1. Leaders open to questions and discuss them - Unquestioning obedience /
Leaders do not discuss questions
2. Truth is the bottom line - Love and loyalty are the bottom line
3. Freedom to form own conclusions - Indoctrination /Leaders' conclusions
must be accepted.
4. Emphasis on unity - Emphasis on uniformity
5. Not elitist / accepts ALL Christians - Elitist / accepts SOME
6. Open program - Hidden agenda
7. Influences - Manipulates
8. Leaders shepherd (guide) the flock - Leaders "lord" it over the flock
9. Results in diversity, freedom - Results in conformity, rigidity
10. Provides many avenues of service - Allows one avenue of service
...serving their group
11. Individual is responsible to God for his / her life - Individual is
responsible to leaders
12. Individual seeks, discerns and follows God's will - Leaders tell
individual what God's will is
13. Critical thinking encouraged - Analytical thinking hindered
14. Complex, no simple answers - Simplistic approach to life
15. Reasoned approach based on whole counsel of God, full bible in
context, prayer, counsel, circumstances, other information - Pick your
own bible verse to lead you / Choices must conform to leaders' dictates,
[adapted from Joanne Ruhland 1995]
By gift of discernment are you referring to: (discerning of spirits as noted
in the verse below)
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to
another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to
another the interpretation of tongues:
Or something else?
I would like to know.
I thank you Glenn for speaking the truth!
> i am not glenn mcclary,
> but this post is just one more that cries out for everyone to quit using
> the gift of discernment or even the checking of the scriptures.
> i implore you all, do not follow this mans advice.
> those of his "building crew" send personal messages such as, f//k you,
> burn in hell, b//ch, etc.
If you are receiving these types of messages
why have you not check message addresses
to verify who sent them! Anyone can send
e-mails in someone else's name! It is done all
the time by those who only wish to troll and
see how much damage they can do! And go
off and laugh about it- not caring who it may
> at this point in this group it is necessary to pont out the constant
> evil and misuse of gods holy word for the sake of the new believers who
> may be led astray by these perverted new winds of doctrine being
> displayed here by those who take the name of god in vain.
Why have you set your heart against Gods
own? Are you not one of Gods Elect also?
If you are truly receiving what you think you
are receiving, expose it on the NG for all to
see so we all can decide for ourselves if what
you say really happens and some can even tell
you for sure who posted it!
I get some messages the same as you do but
I always check the addresses from where they
come to see who really sent them!
I might be worth a try
> love to all
> in christ whose blood alone is sufficient for your salvation.
May God continue to richly Bless you!
Peace and Love in The Name of Jesus Christ!
From The Word of God: And as Moses lifted up the serpent
in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up
that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life."
Take a look at this link:
It looks like Glenn was right.
Is plagiarism a hallmark of a prophet?
i am sick of the threats, etc. from the likes of fervent, tbc, wayne,
etc. and the support they receive from the self proclaimed leaders and
thanks for the interpol link in the other thread.
in christ whose blood alone can save us from this wickedness,
in christ whose blood alone can save us from this evil,
glenn (webtv glenn).
I have noticed that to tend to speak much of others, and hardly of Christ.
Remember, He is the focus and the message.
Yours in Christ,
would you like for me to go ahead and write your response? how i should
mind my own buisness with god and not judge others, etc?
in christ whose blood alne can save us from this evil
Where did Christ ever delete the words of those he disagreed with,
where did he ever force his views on others or censor them?
Didn't he answer his enemies questions and prove everything he said
with the word of God,
using biblical principles? Didn't he expose them truthfully to warn
When his enemies tried to silence him, accuse him, and trap him,
mingling with the multitudes, did he wipe his feet and walk away from
those multitudes because of the false shepherds among them, even
though those false shepherds believed their authority from God and
that they were his chosen people?
Mar 6:34 And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved
with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a
shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.
Mar 1:22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them
as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.
Are you his child?
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and
supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to
save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation
unto all them that obey him
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk,
even as he walked.
I saw the post.
>It looks like Glenn was right.
Maybe, and maybe not. I'll get to that in a moment.
First off, I would ask:
Did Jesus die for our sins so that we could be "right", or so that we might
As Joy just shared, a person can be "right" but for all the wrong reasons.
Was Glenn seeking righteousness, or simply being "right" and pointing out
the flailings of another.
Remember the model of Christ.
The reason why Glenn has to be "right" in this is for all the wrong reasons,
because it's whole purpose is to shift the focus off of Christ and onto a
fallable man. And this happens whenever myself, or fervent or anyone else
he decides is a 'false prophet' and fair game. And he will go back many
years to gather data, left incomplete so he might better incrimate and
remove from the playing field not false prophets, but anyone who might have
And even if they have not, he will lie or slander to create the illusion of
such. There is only one spirit that does that Enigma, and he is far from
You see Enigma, in God's sight we do not answer for what another man has
done. We answer for what we have done; and what Glenn has done is succumbed
to the spirit that seeks to shift the focus from Christ at all costs.
Now, as per the "charge" of plagarism:
By what Spirit was the original offering of that utterance made? Was it by
the spirit of a man, or by the Spirit of God? What was it's intent? To
build up the body? To be a pleasing sacrifice to God? What inspires that
mindset, other than God's own Spirit? And what accomplishes that, but God's
So does God plagerise Himself? Are words that are shared by God for the
edification of His children, the "property" of the instrument He chose to
use? Or are they HIS to use and re-use as He sees fit, with glory not to
the vessels, but unto Him alone!
The only trespass that may exist, is in fervent's not sharing that the
source was of another instrument of the same God. But when it comes down to
it Enigma, when the Spirit of God manifests through you, do you crave the
glory and recongnition? You may have the "right", but is taking that
credit, beneficial to God's kingdom or to our own souls where pride is
waiting to spring?
If God has used me to share words that might touch a person's heart for
Christ 2nd, 4th, or 83rd hand, then it matters not one iota to me whether I
receive "official" recognition or not. For since nothing good comes from my
heart but from God alone, if what i shared was good, then it must be God
shining through me.
And again, this all needs to tie back to the deep motive behind Glenn
sharing this and thinking it was for God's greater glory.
Where is Christ in this?
Is He glorified?
Is the name of Christ lifted on high?
Or is there simply another person fallen at the feet of a ministry that
seeks only to shift focus away from Christ?
Yours in service,
You should post their nasty responses to you. If they say they are
Christians, their work will prove it.
Peace in Christ
How does it feel to be perfect glenn?
We are still waiting for the proof of your
accusations....when will it come? Do you not have
a plank in your own eye to remove?
I agree, we have people who cuss, sensible2me used
our Holy Christ's name in a blasphemous way just a
few days ago. We have idiots, we have liars and
we have people who consistently make attempts to
stay on track. We have people proclaiming to be
female Christs, and we have people grinding axe's
for what ever reasons. and we have people with
nothing better to do than be addicted to the
internet. Its called the human race. No one is
perfect. (although we have people who say they
You want to take us all and mold us into little
Glen, again you used the phrase "gift of discernment". Can you point me to
a scripture that says such a thing exists?
> You want to take us all and mold us into little
Glenn does not act like the bully building team and try to force ALL
Christians to believe the same as Fuehrer Grizzle Guts.
Glenn does not hit the PLONK like you, Vera 666 and Fuehrer Grizzle Guts.
If you can tear yourself away from posting your pious CRAP you might like to
post a reply to the following .............
The focus of this unmoderated newsgroup is Christian life.
Remember the bible says in Phi 4:8 "Finally, brethren, whatever is TRUE ...
dwell on these things." (my emphasis)
Would you like to repond to the following of my posts?
For all at alt.christnet.christianlife
Now that the Grizzle Guts cult has lost most of its sting the question of
how we treat former members and their victims is an issue that needs to be
discussed and addressed by all, as is our learning from the mistakes of the
When the Nazis took over Germany in WW II the Lutheran church was divided
into those who supported Hitler and those who opposed him. After the war
the two sides reconciled and became one again with forgiveness on both
We cannot be like those who have victimised us. We cannot be tryrants of
another ilk or "bullies for freedom" when the war is over. We cannot change
the old regime for a new regime.
If we claim to be Christian then we should great others who claim to be
Christian as our brothers and sisters. As this unmoderated forum is for ALL
Christians there will always be denominational differences. This should not
be a bar for fellowship nor a reason to stop talking to another who claims
to be Christian. No-one should be forced to believe the same doctrine as
In the same manner, there can be no leaders. We are ALL equal in Christ and
members of the same body. We ALL have a part to play ... including Vera and
I ask for others to comment on and discuss this aspect that needs to be
addressed before it arrives on our doorstep unawares.
Maybe you could read II Corinthians 3-11 as a start for these dicussions.
There has been a fight for the freedom of this newsgroup. That freedom is
all but won. What do we do now to heal the victims and help the vanquished?
The focus of this unmoderated newsgroup is Christian life.
Remember the bible says in Phi 4:8 "Finally, brethren, whatever is TRUE ...
dwell on these things." (my emphasis)
Welcome to the Free ACC: "That Sweet Forum of Liberty!"
> Glen, again you used the phrase "gift of discernment". Can you point me to
> a scripture that says such a thing exists?
I am not Glen, but I wanted to share if I may, and please forgive me for
answering when the question wasn't asked of me: it's in verse 10,
which I highlighted with asterisks ****.
1 Corinthians 12:
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord.
6 There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of
them in all men.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the
8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to
another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by
that one Spirit,
10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, ****to another
distinguishing between spirits,**** to another speaking in different
kinds of tongues and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them
to each one, just as he determines.
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who
works all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the
profit of all:
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another
the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by
the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, ****to
another discerning of spirits,**** to another different kinds of
tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to
each one individually as He wills.
Hope the two versions help?
Well, it would be better for all if he were to prove Christ publically.
Accusations have a way of just piling one on top of the other and increasing
the general ungodly clutter on the group.
Feather, thanks for the response, but I guess I better explain myself.
There have been a few posters lately, like glen, who have claimed a "gift of
discernment". Based on their posted and the anger displayed in the posts, I
question most of what they say to begin with, much less if they have some
gift. But to the point, the is a gift of discerning of spirits has not been
noted as the gift, but rather they calm a gift of discernment. As best I
can tell, the ones claiming discernment are not listening to the HS speak to
them but running in anger to post again based on the post they just read.
The HS would not have them calling people names and speaking in anger, but
rather, if they were hearing from the HS, they would be working
reconciliation, in love and meekness.
So, can anyone, tell me what is the gift that the HS gives, as noted in the
passages you quoted? How does this operate? How would one know they are
working the gift and not there own heart, flesh, feelings, etc?
Thanks for listening.
Mike Barefield wrote:
<<SNIPPED MY RESPONSE FOR BREVITY>>>
> Feather, thanks for the response, but I guess I better explain myself.
> There have been a few posters lately, like glen, who have claimed a "gift of
> discernment". Based on their posted and the anger displayed in the posts, I
> question most of what they say to begin with, much less if they have some
> gift. But to the point, the is a gift of discerning of spirits has not been
> noted as the gift, but rather they calm a gift of discernment. As best I
> can tell, the ones claiming discernment are not listening to the HS speak to
> them but running in anger to post again based on the post they just read.
> The HS would not have them calling people names and speaking in anger, but
> rather, if they were hearing from the HS, they would be working
> reconciliation, in love and meekness.
I agree. Love and meekness IS the sign that someone is operating in that
gift as mentioned in Scripture.
> So, can anyone, tell me what is the gift that the HS gives, as noted in the
> passages you quoted?
Discerning of spirits. In 1 John we are told to test the spirits that we
may know them:
1 John 4
Test the Spirits
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see
whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out
into the world.
2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that
acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This
is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even
now is already in the world.
4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the
one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the
world, and the world listens to them.
6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is
not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit
of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
> How does this operate?
Well, let's see if I can dig up something that's rather simplified, on
The Holy Spirit: (mind you, it is rather long, and focuses a lot on
prophecy, but discernment goes along with it; the act of discerning a
false prophet must be measured against God's Word):
In our lives, the power of the Holy Spirit is manifest in several ways,
First, when we become born again from above, the Holy Spirit enters our
Second, when we are convicted of sin, that is the power of the Holy
Spirit within us, directing us and working to change us according to
God's plan for our individual lives.
Third, when we find ourselves unwittingly following and strengthening
God's precepts in our daily lives, that is the Holy Spirit writing God's
law on our hearts.
Fourth, when we are put off by something that seems extra-biblical, that
is the power of discernment, which comes from the Holy Spirit.
Fifth, when we experience the gifts, that is the Holy Spirit working in
us, again according to God's plan for our individual lives.
The gifts of tongues, prophecy, administration, teaching, words of
knowlege, etc., are not something we can lay claim to, for the Bible
teaches that the Holy Spirit gives these gifts where and when He
determines. It's not something we turn on or off; it's something that
just comes according to His plan.
When someone speaks in tongues and it's interpreted, that's God's Holy
Spirit working. That doesn't mean that person will always speak in tongues.
********When someone utters a prophecy, which by the standards outlines
in Scripture will reflect the Scripture, as there are no new
revelations, (according to Scripture, the revelation has already been
given), it must stand the test, again, of Scripture, or be deemed a
***It's nothing personal against the person uttering it, of course.****
Finally, when we are corrected, reproofed and rebuked, as Christians, we
are experiencing the power of the Holy Spirit within a brother or sister
who is spiritually our "senior" and we must listen and apply Scripture
to that rebuke, reproof and correction. We must exercise our minds with
the knowledge of Scripture, so that any correction, rebuke or reproof is
standing on that basis.
There are more instances, I am sure. The point I am making is that to
deny the power of the Holy Spirit after testing the spirits that we may
know them, is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
A person is faced with redemption for the first (maybe not) time. They
deny God's gift of grace; they are denying the power of the Holy Spirit;
they are blaspheming Him.
A person has a demon and that demon is cast out by a believer who has
that gift. Another person see's it and doesn't believe it; thinking that
the person doing the casting out is satanic; that is blasphemy of the
The Holy Spirit determines where, when and how His gifts are delivered;
sure, we are to "eagerly seek" them. We are not to **teach** them, nor
are we to think that once we have one, we always will, for the Gifts of
the Spirit are /////not the measure by which one can determine whether
or not a person has been born again - even baptized in the Holy
Spirit//////. That measure is God's alone - and our job is to grow
according to HIS plan and will, not what WE determine that to be.
ONE MORE THING: Nor are we to give any new revelations; the revelation
has been given - if a prophecy or word of knowledge is not support by
Scripture, it is false. Plain and simple.
PS: Scripture references to the above, on the topic of revelation - note
that these ALL had something to do with the GOSPEL and where they did
not, they stood the test of previous Scripture:
a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to your people Israel."
(Whole Chapter: Luke 2 In context: Luke 2:31-33)
Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the
proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery
hidden for long ages past,
(Whole Chapter: Romans 16 In context: Romans 16:24-26)
1 Corinthians 14:6
Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I
be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy
or word of instruction?
(Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 14 In context: 1 Corinthians 14:5-7)
1 Corinthians 14:26
What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a
hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an
interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the
(Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 14 In context: 1 Corinthians 14:25-27)
1 Corinthians 14:30
And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first
speaker should stop.
(Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 14 In context: 1 Corinthians 14:29-31)
2 Corinthians 12:1
I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go
on to visions and revelations from the Lord.
(Whole Chapter: 2 Corinthians 12 In context: 2 Corinthians 12:1-2)
2 Corinthians 12:7
To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great
revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of
Satan, to torment me.
(Whole Chapter: 2 Corinthians 12 In context: 2 Corinthians 12:6-8)
I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I
received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
(Whole Chapter: Galatians 1 In context: Galatians 1:11-13)
I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I
preach among the Gentiles. But I did this privately to those who seemed
to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain.
(Whole Chapter: Galatians 2 In context: Galatians 2:1-3)
I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious
Father, may give you the Spirit[ 1:17 Or a spirit] of wisdom and
revelation, so that you may know him better.
(Whole Chapter: Ephesians 1 In context: Ephesians 1:16-18)
that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already
(Whole Chapter: Ephesians 3 In context: Ephesians 3:2-4)
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants
what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his
> How would one know they are
> working the gift and not there own heart, flesh, feelings, etc?
Gift evidence: done with meekness and love - such discernment sometimes
comes across as a bit authoritarian to some - and perhaps those need to
re-examine whether or not they are practicing their prophecy, etc.,
according to God's Will.
Heart evidence: reactionary, anger, etc.
Flesh evidence: same as above, with accusatory tones included. Better to
temper it down and pray before posting, eh?
Feelings: the emotional center of a human being runs the gamut from
overreacting anger to over-sappy :lovey-dovey" junk. *LOL*
Hope that helps somewhat?
> Thanks for listening.
Griz seems to be the primary focus of the latest turmoil. Does he fail this
test? Is of spirit of anitchrist? Is he proclaiming another gospel?
> > How does this operate?
> Well, let's see if I can dig up something that's rather simplified, on
> The Holy Spirit: (mind you, it is rather long, and focuses a lot on
> prophecy, but discernment goes along with it; the act of discerning a
> false prophet must be measured against God's Word):
> In our lives, the power of the Holy Spirit is manifest in several ways,
> as Christians.
> First, when we become born again from above, the Holy Spirit enters our
> Second, when we are convicted of sin, that is the power of the Holy
> Spirit within us, directing us and working to change us according to
> God's plan for our individual lives.
> Third, when we find ourselves unwittingly following and strengthening
> God's precepts in our daily lives, that is the Holy Spirit writing God's
> law on our hearts.
> Fourth, when we are put off by something that seems extra-biblical, that
> is the power of discernment, which comes from the Holy Spirit.
Here part of my issue. If there is a gift of the HS operating, He would be
speaking to us, telling us that we are hearing / reading something that is
false. But every believer can judge what is said against the word of God
and "discern" if what is said is against scripture.
Frankly, I think most of what we have seen call false is a difference of