WHICH DAY?
glenn
You do not need to depend on the translation of the TERM "Sabbath" in
order to determine which DAY Jesus was resurrected.
First, determine HOW MANY DAYS He was to remain dead _before_ His
resurrection.
Many scriptures tell us: "Three days," and "On the Third day."
[KJV] Matthew 16:21
"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that
he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and
chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third
day.
And see: 17:23, 20:19.
[KJV] Acts 10:40
Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
The Jews who murdered Him _knew_ He claimed He would rise again on the
THIRD day. Mat 27:64
He was to be dead three days, and rise on the third day.
Second, simply define what time on *which day* He was crucified,
Both Mathew and Mark tell us.
Mat 27:
62 Now the next day, [The Sabbath] that followed the day of the
preparation, [Christ was crucified on Friday] the chief priests and
Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet
alive, After three days I will rise again.
Mark 15:
25 And it was the third hour,[about 9 AM] and they crucified him.
26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE
KING OF THE JEWS.
27 And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand,
and the other on his left.
28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered
with the transgressors.
29 And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and
saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days,
30 Save thyself, and come down from the cross.
31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with
the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.
32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we
may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
33 And when the sixth hour [about noon] was come, there was darkness
over the whole land until the ninth hour.
34 And at the ninth hour [*about 3 PM*] Jesus cried with a loud
voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being
interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
35 And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold,
he calleth Elias.
36 And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a
reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias
will come to take him down.
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the
bottom.
39 �And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he
so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son
of God.
40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary
Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
41 (Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered
unto him;) and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem.
42 �And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation,
that is, *the day before the sabbath,*
Here is a undeniably clear statement that Jesus was crucified on Friday,
the day of "the preparation."
43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited
for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved
the body of Jesus.
44 And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him
the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
45 And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.
46 And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in
the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and
rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.
47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he
was laid.
Therefore, it is clear that Jesus was dead on Friday at about 3 PM, and
His body was laid in the tomb _BEFORE_ Sunset Friday, BEFORE the Sabbath
began.
So Jesus was in the Tomb, dead, Friday, while it was still Friday.
That's one day.
Jesus was to be dead three days until His Resurrection.
IF JESUS WAS NOT DEAD THREE DAYS, THEN SATAN HAS BROKEN THE SCRIPTURE!
Jesus was in his grave Friday = 1 Day.
Jesus was in his grave Saturday = 2nd day.
Now the question is, when did Christ arise?
According to Jewish Law, the day is from sunset to sunset. Thus, Friday
is from Sunset on Thursday to Sunset Friday. At sunset Friday, the
Sabbath begins. The Seventh Day, Sabbath, ENDS AT SUNSET on Saturday.
Sunday, or the first of the weeks, or the first of the week (However you
want to say it) begins at sunset of the Sabbath.
There is NO REASON to believe that GOD would resurrect HIS Son during
the DAY of the Sabbath and thus break His Word.
If God resurrected His Son _after_ sunset on the Seventh day, THEN IT
WAS SUNDAY AND HE WAS DEAD THREE DAYS! But there is NO REASON to believe
that GOD resurrected HIS Son during the dark hours of the First of the
weeks, or the first of the week.
It *IS* reasonable to believe that Christ was risen at first light, as
soon as the night began to fade toward daylight -- that's when the
rooster usually greets the dawn!
So Christ was dead three days, was in His grave until the third day, and
was raised by GOD on Sunday just before sunrise -- when the women came
to His tomb.
Clearly:
Mark 15:
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first
[day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the
sepulchre.
"At the end of the Sabbath"
The Sabbath ends at sunset of the Seventh Day, or Saturday at dusk. But
the women were not about to go into the grave during darkness, so they
waited until first light, then they went to the grave and arrived "as it
began to dawn toward the first....
It does not matter how the Sabbatarians interpret the last few words.
Since Christ was resurrected _AFTER_ the Sabbath ended... and /that/
means the third day, Sunday.
--
Glenn
.
The year's in the wane
There is nothing adorning
The night has no eve
And the day has no morning
Old winter gives warning.
Hood
.
duke
>The Jews who murdered Him _knew_ He claimed He would rise again on the
>THIRD day. Mat 27:64
>He was to be dead three days, and rise on the third day.
First day - Friday 3pm to 6pm.
Second day - Friday 6pm to Saturday 6 pm.
Third day - Saturday 6pm until daybreak.
See how simple that is,
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
I
> WHICH DAY?
>
> You do not need to depend on the translation of the TERM "Sabbath" in
> order to determine which DAY Jesus was resurrected.
The bigger question is what does a DEAD GOD do while he is DEAD??????
Jesus HADN'T sent the Holy Spirit at the time so, supposedly, the Holy
Spirit was NOT to be found anywhere on Earth. (The Holy Spirit only came at
Pentecost according to Acts 2)
Father God was in HEAVEN (according to Jesus in the Lord's prayer which
addresses God as "our Father IN HEAVEN").
So WHAT GOD was available on Earth while Jesus was DEAD?????
OBVIOUSLY ZEUS as stated by Paul in the Hymn to Zeus in
Acts 17:28 "In him [ZEUS] we live and move and have our being" -
--
"All things are probable. Try to believe. Really! Try to believe even if
it's bloody stupid and irrational. Why? Because I said so, that's why!
Don't ask questions. Just believe." - Mark 17: 1- 3 (MTV)
I
>>He was to be dead three days, and rise on the third day.
>
> First day - Friday 3pm to 6pm.
> Second day - Friday 6pm to Saturday 6 pm.
> Third day - Saturday 6pm until daybreak.
>
> See how simple that is,
A Jewish day was sunrise to sunset the next day.
Friday 3pm to 6pm was not a FULL day. It is only 3 hours of a WHOLE day.
To say that Jesus was dead THREE DAYS is incorrect. He may have died on one
day and been resurrected ON the third day but he definitely wasn't dead for
three full days.
The bigger question is what a DEAD GOD does while he is dead?
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
> WHICH DAY?
>
> You do not need to depend on the translation
> of the TERM "Sabbath" in order to determine
> which DAY Jesus was resurrected.
Jesus was crucified (not on Friday) and laid in
the grave for three days and three nights and
was resurrected on the first day of the week.
Nothing you say, or try to twist into saying,
will change those facts.
But don't worry, Chucky boy is also in error,
when he claims that Christ was crucified on
a Friday. :)
--
Pastor Dave
The following is part of my auto-rotating
sig file and not part of the message body.
"The apostle Peter has said that the Holy Scriptures
are not of private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20),
and thus we do not allow all possible interpretations.
...Wherefore we do not despise the interpretations
of the holy Greek and Latin fathers, nor reject their
disputations and treatises concerning sacred matters,
as far as they agree with the Scriptures; but we
modestly dissent from them when they are found to
set down things differing from, or altogether contrary
to the Scriptures.... And in the same order also we
place the decrees and canons of councils. Wherefore
we do not permit ourselves, in controversies about
religion or matters of faith, to urge our case with
only the opinions of the fathers or decrees of councils;
much less by received opinions, or by the large number
of those who share the same opinion, or by the prescription
of a long time." - Second Helvetic Confession
Ed Form
> Here is a undeniably clear statement that Jesus was crucified on
> Friday, the day of "the preparation."
If Passover was from sunset Thursday to sunset Friday that year the
Sabbath was of two days duration and the preparation day was Thursday, not
Friday.
Ed Form
dolf
"And on the first day of unleavened bread, when they sacrificed the
passover, his disciples say unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and
make ready that thou mayest eat the passover?
And he sendeth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go into the
city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow
him; and wheresoever he shall enter in, say to the master of the house,
The Teacher saith, Where is my guest-chamber, where I shall eat the
passover with my disciples? And he will himself show you a large upper
room furnished and ready: and there make ready for us. And the disciples
went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them:
and they made ready the passover."
Mark 14:12 �Mark 14:16 (ASV)
Ed Form
> Apparently Jesus and his disciples had their passover meal on
> Wednesday:
Note that as Jesus began the institution of the memorial meal of bread and
wine, he said...
Lu 22:15
...With desire I have desired to eat
*this* Passover
with you before I suffer:
This suggests that the memorial meal was 'this' Passover.
Note also that the formal procedures for cleaning the house and making it
ready would all have been completed by supper-time [ie after sunset] at
the beginning of the day on which the lambs were killed, so the fact that
they used 'a large upper room furnished and made ready' does not make the
day Passover - that did not start until after sunset at the end of this
preparation day.
I'm suggesting that the last supper wasn't the Jewish Passover - Jesus was
the lamb of God and, as such, his death had to be at the same time as the
lambs were slaughtered in the annual Passover event, so the supper cannot
have been Passover: it was actually something new that replaced the
symbolic Passover completely and which is celebrated with this new
memorial ceremony.
Ed
dolf
on Wednesday night. And in like manner Jesus conformed to Jewish custom
by remaining in his grave the Sabbath day, rising early Sunday morning.
glenn
> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>> He was to be dead three days, and rise on the third day.
>> First day - Friday 3pm to 6pm.
>> Second day - Friday 6pm to Saturday 6 pm.
>> Third day - Saturday 6pm until daybreak.
>>
>> See how simple that is,
>
>
> A Jewish day was sunrise to sunset the next day.
No, a Jewish day was sunset one evening to sunset the next day
>
> Friday 3pm to 6pm was not a FULL day. It is only 3 hours of a WHOLE day.
Why do in INSERT the term "FULL" ???
Jesus was dead on Friday, so that's one day, irregardless of how many
hours that is or what part of a "FULL" day.
>
> To say that Jesus was dead THREE DAYS is incorrect.
Only in your mind, markie.
Ed Form
> Jesus and his disciples were conforming to Jewish custom of the
> Passover on Wednesday night. And in like manner Jesus conformed to
> Jewish custom by remaining in his grave the Sabbath day, rising early
> Sunday morning.
Read the Book, Dolf. You are wrong; they did not conform to the Jewish
custom of the Passover that night because it wasn't Passover...
Joh 18:28
Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment:
and it was early;
and they themselves went not into the judgment hall,
lest they should be defiled;
but that they might eat the passover.
This is early the morning after the last supper, and the Jewish rulers who
dragged Jesus before Pilate didn't want to contract ceremonial uncleanness
because that would prevent them from eating the Passover that night.
Incidentally, I'm not supporting the silly idea that Jesus rose on the
Sabbath here. He didn't, he rose on the first day of the week. Let me set
down the complete the argument for the timetable of the death, burial, and
resurrection of Jesus.
The expression '3 days and three nights' can only have two meanings in
common parlance. It can mean three complete periods from sunrise to sunset
plus three complete periods from sunset to sunrise, in other words, 72
full hours. It can also mean three periods of daylight and three periods
of darkness which, since they are continuous must include two full-length
days and two full-length nights, but which could actually total no more
than a few seconds over 48 hours. Since we know that Jesus' period in the
ground was to commence with a day, from the expression '3 days and three
nights' itself, and that the first 'full' period was a night, because he
was buried just before sunset on crucifixion day, the first of those two
alternatives [three full 24 hour periods] is ruled out. So, counting the
passage of times as it is defined to us, given that we know Jesus was
buried just before sunset, we should begin by taking the short time
between the tomb being closed and nightfall as the first daylight period -
thus, if the Lord was buried on a Friday, and raised at the latest
possible time which might fit any of the accounts, that is Sunday morning,
the passage of time, measured in periods of daylight and darkness would be
as follows...
Buried late Friday afternoon 1 daylight period
Friday evening until dawn Saturday 1 dark period
Dawn Saturday till Sunset Saturday 1 daylight period
Sunset Saturday till dawn Sunday 1 dark period
Dawn Sunday until resurrection 1 daylight period.
As you can, see we are 1 dark period short. If we add the fact that Jesus
was resurrected before dawn, as several of the passages involved make
clear, then the last period in the list above didn't occur and we are
actually one daylight and one dark period short.
If we assume a Thursday afternoon burial the timetable fits...
Buried late Thursday afternoon 1 daylight period
Thursday evening until dawn Friday 1 dark period
Dawn Friday till Sunset Friday 1 daylight period
Sunset Friday till dawn Saturday 1 dark period
Dawn Saturday until Sunset Saturday 1 daylight period.
Sunset Saturday until resurrection 1 dark period.
Even if we accept the idea that Christ rose from the dead just before
sunset on the Saturday evening, which is the end of the Sabbath, Wednesday
burial, which many go for, does not work...
Buried late Wednesday afternoon 1 daylight period
Wednesday sunset until dawn Thursday 1 dark period
Dawn Thursday till Sunset Thursday 1 daylight period
Sunset Thursday till dawn Friday 1 dark period
Dawn Friday until Sunset Friday 1 daylight period.
Sunset Friday until Dawn Saturday 1 dark period.
Dawn Saturday until pre-sunset Sat 1 daylight period
Which, as everyone can see, is one daylight period too many. If we then
add the short period of darkness to bring us up to Sunday morning
resurrection, the Wednesday crucifixion and burial idea is a daylight and
a dark period adrift.
The only scenario which fits is a Thursday burial and resurrection before
dawn on Sunday. Bearing in mind that Jewish days start and end at sunset,
and when Passover falls on a Thursday, the week has a two day Sabbath [the
Rabbis actually cooked the calendar centuries later to eliminate this
inconvenient drag on the business community], all of the accounts and all
the time clues and all of the customs of the Jews in those days conform to
this one scenario.
Ed Form
dolf
of unleavened bread when they sacrificed the passover. It seems very
unambiguous: "And on the first day of unleavened bread, when they
that we go and make ready that thou mayest eat the passover?
And he sendeth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go into the
city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow
him; and wheresoever he shall enter in, say to the master of the house,
The Teacher saith, Where is my guest-chamber, where I shall eat the
passover with my disciples? And he will himself show you a large upper
room furnished and ready: and there make ready for us. And the disciples
went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them:
and they made ready the passover."
Mark 14:12 �Mark 14:16 (ASV)
glenn
Sorry Fred, your "If" assumption is in error.
Sabbath is "Seventh Day"
There is only ONE "Seventh" day.
Passover was Wednesday *** # 33 A. D. Wednesday, April 1.9 ***
(Perhaps Wednesday after sunset = Thursday)
Jesus was with His disciples Thursday, and in the Garden that evening,
and He was taken early in the morning Friday.
The day of Preparation for the Seventh Day _following_ Passover was Friday.
Jesus was crucified Friday, and rose Sunday before Sunrise when the
women arrived.
I
>>>> He was to be dead three days, and rise on the third day.
>>> First day - Friday 3pm to 6pm.
>>> Second day - Friday 6pm to Saturday 6 pm.
>>> Third day - Saturday 6pm until daybreak.
>>> See how simple that is,
>>
>> A Jewish day was sunrise to sunset the next day.
>
> No, a Jewish day was sunset one evening to sunset the next day
Ooops! Mea culpa! You are correct.
>> Friday 3pm to 6pm was not a FULL day. It is only 3 hours of a WHOLE day.
>
> Why do in INSERT the term "FULL" ???
A FULL day is 24 hours. 3 hours is not a FULL day.
> Jesus was dead on Friday, so that's one day, irregardless of how many
> hours that is or what part of a "FULL" day.
Jesus was dead PART of Friday. That PART of Friday was not a FULL day no
matter how you measure it.
Of course, the BIGGER problem is what a DEAD GOD does while he is dead.
glenn
> "glenn" wrote:
>
>>>>> He was to be dead three days, and rise on the third day.
>>>> First day - Friday 3pm to 6pm.
>>>> Second day - Friday 6pm to Saturday 6 pm.
>>>> Third day - Saturday 6pm until daybreak.
>>>> See how simple that is,
>>> A Jewish day was sunrise to sunset the next day.
>> No, a Jewish day was sunset one evening to sunset the next day
>
> Ooops! Mea culpa! You are correct.
NP ... we all do it.
>
>
>>> Friday 3pm to 6pm was not a FULL day. It is only 3 hours of a WHOLE day.
>> Why do in INSERT the term "FULL" ???
>
> A FULL day is 24 hours. 3 hours is not a FULL day.
Where did you get this "FULL" day idea?
Did Jews ONLY count "FULL" days?
>
>
>> Jesus was dead on Friday, so that's one day, irregardless of how many
>> hours that is or what part of a "FULL" day.
>
> Jesus was dead PART of Friday.
And you're point is?
My point is, if He was dead ANY part of Friday, then Friday counts.
> That PART of Friday was not a FULL day no
> matter how you measure it.
Oh! /that's/ you're point. Duh!
Where did you get this "FULL" day Idea?
Look: The Man was dead and in His grave Friday, for part of the day.
That counts as the first day He was dead, 1 day.
The Man was dead, dead, dead ALL DAY the Seventh day,
That counts as one day -- the second day He was Dead.
The Man was dead on the third day, Sunday, even if it were only a part
of that third day, UNTIL He was resurrected by His Father, GOD, before
sunrise when the women arrived.
Now, Markie, pay close attention, Please.
If you subtract the first day, Friday because it was not a "FULL" day,
then you subtract the third day, Sunday, because it was not a "full" day...
...THEN you only have The Lamb of God dead, dead, dead *ONE ["full"] DAY*
The minor little problem with that, markie, is that then Satan has
broken the Word of God, because Jesus (who did in fact demonstrate that
He was, and is, the Son of God) STATED that He would be dead and rise on
the _third_ day!
Mat 27:63
"Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet
alive, After three days I will rise again."
So, Dear Markie, which do you prefer?
Jesus, who claimed He would be dead three days and rise again on the
THIRD day?
Or Satan, who claims Jesus was only dead 1 ("FULL") Day, and thus Jesus
the Son of God is a liar!
Your choice.
Choose wisely.
You know what I think Mark? I think you've got bigger fish to fry, and
you could simply drop this "full day" BS and just walk away. Go teach
Chuckie something about logical fallacies. Now there is a man who needs
HELP!
I
> Look: The Man was dead and in His grave Friday, for part of the day. That
> counts as the first day He was dead, 1 day.
>
> The Man was dead, dead, dead ALL DAY the Seventh day,
> That counts as one day -- the second day He was Dead.
>
> The Man was dead on the third day, Sunday, even if it were only a part of
> that third day, UNTIL He was resurrected by His Father, GOD, before
> sunrise when the women arrived.
>
> Now, Markie, pay close attention, Please.
>
> If you subtract the first day, Friday because it was not a "FULL" day,
> then you subtract the third day, Sunday, because it was not a "full"
> day...
>
> ...THEN you only have The Lamb of God dead, dead, dead *ONE ["full"] DAY*
BINGO!!!!
Sunday is also NOT a FULL day.
WHO wanted Jesus dead for "three days"?????
MIDRASH - a midrash type of retelling of the story of Jonah placed on top of
Jesus' execution for treason against the Roman Empire.
> The minor little problem with that, markie, is that then Satan has broken
> the Word of God, because Jesus (who did in fact demonstrate that He was,
> and is, the Son of God) STATED that He would be dead and rise on the
> _third_ day!
>
> Mat 27:63
> "Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive,
> After three days I will rise again."
After THREE FULL DAYS - NOT on the THIRD day!
> Jesus, who claimed He would be dead three days and rise again on the THIRD
> day?
DID HE?????????? Matt 27:63 is supposedly stated by the Chief Priests and
NOT Jesus.
"The things that you're liable
To read in the bible
Ain't necessarily so!" - Porgy & Bess
--
MY BLOG - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
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glenn
> "glenn" wrote:
>
>> Look: The Man was dead and in His grave Friday, for part of the day. That
>> counts as the first day He was dead, 1 day.
>>
>> The Man was dead, dead, dead ALL DAY the Seventh day,
>> That counts as one day -- the second day He was Dead.
>>
>> The Man was dead on the third day, Sunday, even if it were only a part of
>> that third day, UNTIL He was resurrected by His Father, GOD, before
>> sunrise when the women arrived.
>>
>> Now, Markie, pay close attention, Please.
>>
>> If you subtract the first day, Friday because it was not a "FULL" day,
>> then you subtract the third day, Sunday, because it was not a "full"
>> day...
>>
>> ...THEN you only have The Lamb of God dead, dead, dead *ONE ["full"] DAY*
>
>
> BINGO!!!!
>
> Sunday is also NOT a FULL day.
>
> WHO wanted Jesus dead for "three days"?????
>
> MIDRASH - a midrash type of retelling of the story of Jonah placed on top of
> Jesus' execution for treason against the Roman Empire.
Jesus was not executed for treason against the Roman Empire.
Check your facts.
>
>
>> The minor little problem with that, markie, is that then Satan has broken
>> the Word of God, because Jesus (who did in fact demonstrate that He was,
>> and is, the Son of God) STATED that He would be dead and rise on the
>> _third_ day!
>>
>> Mat 27:63
>> "Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive,
>> After three days I will rise again."
>
>
> After THREE FULL DAYS - NOT on the THIRD day!
"Full" days?
Where in the HELL did you get this "FULL" day idea, markie?
Really, you get a bad idea in your teeth and you are like a dog with a bone!
Oh well, friend, I tried to help. :-)
>
>
>> Jesus, who claimed He would be dead three days and rise again on the THIRD
>> day?
>
>
> DID HE?????????? Matt 27:63 is supposedly stated by the Chief Priests and
> NOT Jesus.
They were reporting His "reported" statements -- whether THEY believed
thm or not.
Oh, and you completely discount all other references as being falsified?
>
> "The things that you're liable
> To read in the bible
> Ain't necessarily so!" - Porgy & Bess
True --- there was no "star of Bethlehem."
dolf
decrees-DOGMA of Caesar {ie. as Pontifex Maximus being the
anthropocentric manifest of Divinity}, saying-LEGO that there is
another-HETEROS king-BASILEIA, one Jesus." [Acts 17:7]
On 4/01/10 5:58 PM, glenn wrote:
dolf
decrees-DOGMA of Caesar {ie. as Pontifex Maximus being the
anthropocentric manifest of Divinity}, saying-LEGO that there is
another-HETEROS king-BASILEIA, one Jesus." [Acts 17:7]
�Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to
him, �Are you the King of Jews?�
Jesus answered him, �Are you speaking for yourself on this, or did
others tell you this about me?�
Pilate answered, �Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have
delivered you to me. What have you done?�� [John 18:33-35]
On 4/01/10 5:58 PM, glenn wrote:
> I wrote:
dolf
decrees-DOGMA of Caesar {ie. as Pontifex Maximus being the
anthropocentric manifest of Divinity}, saying-LEGO that there is
another-HETEROS king-BASILEIA, one Jesus." [Acts 17:7]
�Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to
him, �Are you the King of Jews?�
Jesus answered him, �Are you speaking for yourself on this, or did
others tell you this about me?�
Pilate answered, �Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have
delivered you to me. What have you done?�� [John 18:33-35]
On 4/01/10 5:58 PM, glenn wrote:
> I wrote:
>> MIDRASH - a midrash type of retelling of the story of Jonah placed on
>> top of Jesus' execution for treason against the Roman Empire.
>
> Jesus was not executed for treason against the Roman Empire.
>
> Check your facts.
>
�Jesus answered, �My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were
of this world, my servants would fight, so that I should not be
delivered to the Jews; but now my kingdom is not from here.�
Pilate therefore said to him, �Are you a king then?� Jesus answered,
�You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for
this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the
truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice.�
Pilate said to him, �What is truth?� And when he had said this, he went
out again to the Jews, and said to them, �I find no fault in him at
all.�� [John 18:36-38]
I
>> WHO wanted Jesus dead for "three days"?????
>>
>> MIDRASH - a midrash type of retelling of the story of Jonah placed on top
>> of Jesus' execution for treason against the Roman Empire.
>
> Jesus was not executed for treason against the Roman Empire.
>
> Check your facts.
I have ... with many contemporary biblical scholars.
Jesus was executed by Rome for daring to claim to be the "King of the
Jews" - this is also attested to be the sign placed on his cross. Read
Matthew 27:3; Mark 15:26; John 19:19. It was sedition.
>>> Mat 27:63
>>> "Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet
>>> alive, After three days I will rise again."
>> After THREE FULL DAYS - NOT on the THIRD day!
>
> "Full" days?
FULL days.
> Where in the HELL did you get this "FULL" day idea, markie?
"After three days " - Matthew 27:63.
Where do you get PART days????
>>> Jesus, who claimed He would be dead three days and rise again on the
>>> THIRD day?
>> DID HE?????????? Matt 27:63 is supposedly stated by the Chief Priests
>> and NOT Jesus.
>
> They were reporting His "reported" statements -- whether THEY believed thm
> or not.
>
> Oh, and you completely discount all other references as being falsified?
Mathew bases his gospel on Mark's gospel and Q. He changes many things
because he doesn't like Mark's version. Some of the words attributed to
Jesus of Nazareth in Matthew's gospel were NEVER stated by the real historic
time / space Jesus of Nazareth but are placed upon Jesus' lips by Matthew.
That is THEY ARE MATTHEW'S FICTION used to tell what matrtherw thought about
Jesus (though matthew had NEVER met the historic Jesus of Nazareth - a fact
proven by his use of the Greek Septuagint and vast lack of knowledge of
Jewish customs and places.).
The contemporary quest for the historic Jesus looks at textual criticism to
ascertain what was REALLY stated by Jesus of Nazareth.
That Jesus stated that he would rise from the dead "After three days" is
given a BLACK attribution by Funk, Hoover& The Jesus
Seminar "The Five Gospels" (Polebridge: 1993) every time it is mentioned.
BLACK: "I would not include this item in the primary database / Jesus did
not say this; it represents the perspective or content of a later or
different tradition."
I
> In that it appeared to some to be "...contrary-APENANTI to the
> decrees-DOGMA of Caesar {ie. as Pontifex Maximus being the anthropocentric
> manifest of Divinity}, saying-LEGO that there is another-HETEROS
> king-BASILEIA, one Jesus." [Acts 17:7]
Exactly! This was sedition against the Roman Empire. Caesar had not
sanctioned Jesus as "King of the Jews". Caesar had already appointed a
"King of the Jews" - Herod - and no Roman official (such as Pilate) was
going to tolerate some Jewish peasant claiming the same title!!!
I
> �Jesus answered, �My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of
> this world, my servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to
> the Jews; but now my kingdom is not from here.�
>
> Pilate therefore said to him, �Are you a king then?� Jesus answered, �You
> say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this
> cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth.
> Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice.�
>
> Pilate said to him, �What is truth?� And when he had said this, he went
> out again to the Jews, and said to them, �I find no fault in him at all.��
> [John 18:36-38]
This is John's version which is not found in the synoptic gospels and
considered unhistorical. John wrote this in order to appease the Romans by
demonstrating that the Roman Empire WASN'T to blame for Jesus death - Pilate
had said "I find no fault in him". The opposite was the truth! Jesus'
death was not because of pressure by Jews (again John's unhistorical
version) but because Pilate as a Roman official could not tolerate anyone
claiming to be "King of the Jews" contrary to the will of Caesar.
John's gospel contains next to nothing ever stated by the historic time /
space Jesus of Nazareth. It is a complete rewrite of the Jesus story that
contradicts the earlier Synoptic Gospels in key factual areas. It has more
in common with Greek philosophy than it has the historic time / space Jesus
of Nazareth.
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
<ed....@theformsonline.com> spake thusly:
Actually, no. Jesus was crucified during the daytime hours.
The lamb was actually slaughtered during the time that is,
but is not evening. When you do the proper research,
you'll find that there is a time between daytime and evening
that from the Hebrew actually means, "between the evenings"
and that is when the lamb was slaughtered for Passover.
We would call it "dusk".
--
Pastor Dave
The following is part of my auto-rotating
sig file and not part of the message body.
"The Evolutionist will not get on a bullet train knowing
there's tracks missing down the line, but he certainly
gets on the Evolution Train with lots of tracks missing
in his story line!" - Old Man Joe
ruth
Why do you deal with dark and light periods?
Day one : Evening to evening ,. thursday [+wednesday 1/2 hour]
Day two: Evening to evening......friday
Day three: Evening to evening saturday [- 1/2 hour saturday]
Ruth
duke
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>>He was to be dead three days, and rise on the third day.
>>
>> First day - Friday 3pm to 6pm.
>> Second day - Friday 6pm to Saturday 6 pm.
>> Third day - Saturday 6pm until daybreak.
>>
>> See how simple that is,
>
>
>A Jewish day was sunrise to sunset the next day.
No, 6pm to 6pm.
>Friday 3pm to 6pm was not a FULL day. It is only 3 hours of a WHOLE day.
BUT - it IS day 1.
>To say that Jesus was dead THREE DAYS is incorrect. He may have died on one
>day and been resurrected ON the third day but he definitely wasn't dead for
>three full days.
Nobody said "3 full days".
>The bigger question is what a DEAD GOD does while he is dead?
Collect the souls of those that died in the friendship of God before his,
Jesus', glorification. By the way, they were all Jews and non Christians and he
raised them to new life when he died.
I
>>The bigger question is what a DEAD GOD does while he is dead?
>
> Collect the souls of those that died in the friendship of God before his,
> Jesus', glorification.
A DEAD god (such as dead Jesus) cannot do anything as he is DEAD.
That means a DEAD god cannot collect anything (including souls)
DEAD means DEAD:
- destitute of life
- inanimate
- inactive
Or are you saying that Jesus wasn't REALLY dead as he could collect
souls????
IF
Jesus could DO something while he was dead
THEN
he wasn't really dead at all!
BECAUSE
DEAD means DEAD:
- destitute of life
- inanimate
- inactive
Ed Form
> Actually, no. Jesus was crucified during the daytime hours.
> The lamb was actually slaughtered during the time that is,
> but is not evening. When you do the proper research,
> you'll find that there is a time between daytime and evening
> that from the Hebrew actually means, "between the evenings"
> and that is when the lamb was slaughtered for Passover.
> We would call it "dusk".
Was this addressed to me or to Dolf? I know when Jesus was crucified and
the relationship between that time and the time when the Lambs were
killed, and the fact that his time in the tomb began with a very short
daylight period.
Ed Form
duke
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>The bigger question is what a DEAD GOD does while he is dead?
>>
>> Collect the souls of those that died in the friendship of God before his,
>> Jesus', glorification.
>
>
>A DEAD god (such as dead Jesus) cannot do anything as he is DEAD.
Jesus was a man in all his earthly endeavors.