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Re: Why it is incorrect to pray to Saints, and Mary, per scripture.
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tesla sTinker
Oct 13, 2021, 2:38:22 PM10/13/21
to
THe kjv is not the true Bible. IT is not recognized by the
true Catholic Church as anything valid. But invalid...End of story.
Excommunicated person Robert. Nor is this subject title correct that
you wrote.
On 10/12/2021 10:48 AM, Robert scribbled:
> A short while back I posted some scripture which warned against those who
> would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
> also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
> and sisters in Christ.
>
> A couple people, for some reason, took it as if to say replying to an Angel
> of the Lord was to worship them and me not being steeped in catholicism could
> not understand their conclusion, since scripture never says that to speak to
> someone is prayer. To pray, one must necessarily humble themselves to whom
> they pray. To carry on a conversation is not prayer.
>
> In any case however, in the Book of the Revelations there are two instances
> where the Apostle John was admonished NOT to humble himself before the being
> speaking to him. In one case it said the person speaking to him was an Angel,
> but when reading the associated scripture one can see that the word used for
> Angel was actually "messenger". Why is that?
>
> “And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and
> seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me
> these things.” (Rev 22:8, KJV)
>
> “Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and
> of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this
> book: worship God.” (Rev 22:9, KJV)
>
> As you can see in v9 the being speaking to him was actually a "fellow
> servant", a prophet, and a keeper of the sayings of God, who told him worship
> God, not me.
>
> Then again in,...
>
> “And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it
> not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of
> Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
> (Rev 19:10, KJV)
>
> He, John, was commanded NOT TO bend the knee and worship him as he too was a
> fellow servant of the Lord, a "BROTHER" in Christ Jesus, IOW's a Saint or
> sanctified one through the blood of Jesus.
>
> This would also include Mary, the mother of Jesus. She too is a sister in
> Christ Jesus, Born Again of the Blood of Jesus as is all saints. And yes,
> scripture calls us who are born again, Saints. IOW's that term came from God,
> and not via the authority of religious men.
>
> Therefore, as Christ commanded, we are to Pray to the Father in His name, not
> to any other being as believers in Christ.
>
> “At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will
> pray the Father for you: For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have
> loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.” (Joh 16:26-27, KJV)
>
> Also, when the disciples asked Jesus how and in what manner to pray, he
> always start the prayer, "Our Father, which art in Heaven"
>
> Why? Because he have earthly fathers, who are not God, and we also as
> unbelievers have Satan, aka the destroyer, as a father god of this world.
>
> “Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I
> proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
> Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
>
> Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He
> was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there
> is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is
> a liar, and the father of it.” (Joh 8:42-44, KJV)
>
> For the reason given in v44 by Jesus, many men have problems with the Christ
> Jesus and or His Father God, as they believe his lies.
>
true Catholic Church as anything valid. But invalid...End of story.
Excommunicated person Robert. Nor is this subject title correct that
you wrote.
On 10/12/2021 10:48 AM, Robert scribbled:
> A short while back I posted some scripture which warned against those who
> would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
> also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
> and sisters in Christ.
>
> A couple people, for some reason, took it as if to say replying to an Angel
> of the Lord was to worship them and me not being steeped in catholicism could
> not understand their conclusion, since scripture never says that to speak to
> someone is prayer. To pray, one must necessarily humble themselves to whom
> they pray. To carry on a conversation is not prayer.
>
> In any case however, in the Book of the Revelations there are two instances
> where the Apostle John was admonished NOT to humble himself before the being
> speaking to him. In one case it said the person speaking to him was an Angel,
> but when reading the associated scripture one can see that the word used for
> Angel was actually "messenger". Why is that?
>
> “And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and
> seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me
> these things.” (Rev 22:8, KJV)
>
> “Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and
> of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this
> book: worship God.” (Rev 22:9, KJV)
>
> As you can see in v9 the being speaking to him was actually a "fellow
> servant", a prophet, and a keeper of the sayings of God, who told him worship
> God, not me.
>
> Then again in,...
>
> “And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it
> not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of
> Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
> (Rev 19:10, KJV)
>
> He, John, was commanded NOT TO bend the knee and worship him as he too was a
> fellow servant of the Lord, a "BROTHER" in Christ Jesus, IOW's a Saint or
> sanctified one through the blood of Jesus.
>
> This would also include Mary, the mother of Jesus. She too is a sister in
> Christ Jesus, Born Again of the Blood of Jesus as is all saints. And yes,
> scripture calls us who are born again, Saints. IOW's that term came from God,
> and not via the authority of religious men.
>
> Therefore, as Christ commanded, we are to Pray to the Father in His name, not
> to any other being as believers in Christ.
>
> “At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will
> pray the Father for you: For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have
> loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.” (Joh 16:26-27, KJV)
>
> Also, when the disciples asked Jesus how and in what manner to pray, he
> always start the prayer, "Our Father, which art in Heaven"
>
> Why? Because he have earthly fathers, who are not God, and we also as
> unbelievers have Satan, aka the destroyer, as a father god of this world.
>
> “Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I
> proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
> Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
>
> Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He
> was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there
> is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is
> a liar, and the father of it.” (Joh 8:42-44, KJV)
>
> For the reason given in v44 by Jesus, many men have problems with the Christ
> Jesus and or His Father God, as they believe his lies.
>
Ollie Smth
Oct 13, 2021, 5:10:00 PM10/13/21
to
We don't worship saints, nor angels as we know it is wrong.
It's also wrong to say we worship any other but God. Shema.
For to declare we worship angels and saints amount to false witnessing which is a sin.
To the Hebrews writer, two observations jump out at me -
1. they are ministering spirits 1:14
2. we can show hospitality towards them without knowing it 13:2.
Angels are real but we are unaware to worship them.
Robert
Oct 13, 2021, 6:54:07 PM10/13/21
to
after I had heard and seen, I fell down to adore before the feet of
the angel who shewed me the things.
(Rev 22:9) And he said to me: See thou do it not. For I am thy fellow
servant, and of thy brethren the prophets and of them that keep the
words of the prophecy of this book. Adore God.
As you can clearly see here, it says the same thing.
>>
>> As you can see in v9 the being speaking to him was actually a "fellow
>> servant", a prophet, and a keeper of the sayings of God, who told him worship
>> God, not me.
>>
>> Then again in,...
>>
>> “And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it
>> not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of
>> Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
>> (Rev 19:10, KJV)
saith to me: See thou do it not. I am thy fellow servant and of thy
brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Adore God. For the testimony
of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
And here to, the same thing. Do also notice that the RCC say that "to
adore" is the same thing as worship.
And here is two strikes against your thinking, and I expected it would
be this way.
>>
>> He, John, was commanded NOT TO bend the knee and worship him as he too was a
>> fellow servant of the Lord, a "BROTHER" in Christ Jesus, IOW's a Saint or
>> sanctified one through the blood of Jesus.
>>
>> This would also include Mary, the mother of Jesus. She too is a sister in
>> Christ Jesus, Born Again of the Blood of Jesus as is all saints. And yes,
>> scripture calls us who are born again, Saints. IOW's that term came from God,
>> and not via the authority of religious men.
>>
>> Therefore, as Christ commanded, we are to Pray to the Father in His name, not
>> to any other being as believers in Christ.
>>
>> “At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will
>> pray the Father for you: For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have
>> loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.” (Joh 16:26-27, KJV)
>>
>> Also, when the disciples asked Jesus how and in what manner to pray, he
>> always start the prayer, "Our Father, which art in Heaven"
>>
>> Why? Because he have earthly fathers, who are not God, and we also as
>> unbelievers have Satan, aka the destroyer, as a father god of this world.
>>
>> “Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I
>> proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
>> Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
>>
>> Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He
>> was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there
>> is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is
>> a liar, and the father of it.” (Joh 8:42-44, KJV)
>>
would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded and came. For I came
not of myself: but he sent me.
(Joh 8:43) Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my
word.
(Joh 8:44) You are of your father the devil: and the desires of your
father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning: and he stood
not in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie,
he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
Third Strike.
>> For the reason given in v44 by Jesus, many men have problems with the Christ
>> Jesus and or His Father God, as they believe his lies.
>>
Bible you would be or seem a whole lot smarter to read your version
first before you make a comment like you did, as you in effect bad
mouthed the DRB for copying the KJV.
Robert
Oct 13, 2021, 7:50:17 PM10/13/21
to
[...
In early Christian apocryphal books, various roles are attributed to
Uriel: He rescues St. John the Baptist from Herod’s massacre of the
innocents, carrying John and his mother Elizabeth to Egypt to join the
Holy Family in exile there. He’s the angel who stands at the gate of
Eden with a fiery sword; he “watched over thunder and terror”; he is
the “angel of repentance”; he is one of the angels who buried Adam and
Abel in Eden.
Queen of Angels Church was dedicated to Mary, the Mother of God, by
Bishop Edward A. Fitzgerald, on May 19, 1957.
Another RCC
s a Eucharistic community powered by the Holy Spirit, our mission at
Our Lady of the Angels is to be a welcoming place of worship and
friendship. Through work, play, and prayer, our parish will offer
guidance, education, and service to all.
"
RCIA News
If you are interested in learning about the Catholic faith or in
discerning what it means to be a Catholic, please contact us. We have
a team of parishioners who meet weekly with those on this journey of
faith to share their own faith and how they recognize God working and
present in their everyday lives. We would love to have you join us!"
Why the RC faith and not the Faith of God?
Prayer to Angels by the Pope, etc.
There have been debates over the centuries about the exact rank of
Michael over the angels. Some early Christian traditions, and some
later ones as well, including The Prayer to Saint Michael by Pope Leo
XIII, refer to Michael as the Prince of the Heavenly Hosts (i.e. the
leader of all of the angels in Heaven). Saint Basil the Great made
this argument during the 4th Century in his homily De Angelis and
others, such as Saint Bonaventure (13th Century), argue that Michael
was of the order of the Seraphim. However, Michael is the only angel
in Sacred Scripture explicitly addressed as Archangel (Jude 9) and
thus if the Nine Choir Tradition is accurate he could not be among the
order of the Seraphim at the top of the hierarchy, because the order
of the Archangels is at the second to the lowest of the hierarchy.
This fits in line with Teslas thinking on his orig port regarding
Agnels that you agreed with en total. Thus the comments about the RCC
and prayer to Angels, etc. and Mary, who now is also known as" The
Queen of Angels"
The rock bottom point is that only God should be prayed to. Per Jesus.
Only God, the creator of ALL is worthy of prayer, in the wordhip
sense.
I understand why you have problems wrapping your head around these
things, and it is because you have never "tested and tried the
spirits, to see whther they be of God." ANd BTW none of the things I
posted here has been recanted by the RCC.
To me it appears as if you have more faith in the RCC, its traditions,
and teachings, than you do with with Holy Bible, sans the apocryphal
stuff.
And I can tell you for a fact that if someone points out scripture
that they believe counters my understandings, I will look up the
scripture, read it at face value, then do research regarding what was
said. For I would far rather accept the fact that I was wrong than to
argue with God over what he said and what I thought. I learned early
on that if Gods word said something then do it when there is no
opposing scripture. The understanding always cane to me as I did it
and followed His word.
Robert
Oct 13, 2021, 7:55:53 PM10/13/21
to
Branimir Maksimovic
Oct 13, 2021, 7:58:14 PM10/13/21
to
I am praying to all, without difference, to forgive me.
As if someone whishes you evil it might happen...
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
with software, you repeat same experiment, expecting different results...
As if someone whishes you evil it might happen...
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
with software, you repeat same experiment, expecting different results...
Branimir Maksimovic
Oct 13, 2021, 7:59:51 PM10/13/21
to
Beatyful :P
God helps us all :P
pyotr filipivich
Jan 13, 2022, 4:22:24 PM1/13/22
to
Robert <no...@none.com> on Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:48:20 -0700 typed in
alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
"prithee" but such is language development.)
Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
in the face of the historical reference.
tschus
pyotr
I was interested, so I hauled out my two volume edition of the OED.
Thank God for having 20/9000 eyesight ....
--
For many "I am spiritual, not religious".seems the short form of
"I retain the option to adjust my beliefs to fit my lifestyle,
nor be constrained by prior statements about what I said I believe."
alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>A short while back I posted some scripture which warned against those who
>would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
>also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
>and sisters in Christ.
Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
>would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
>also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
>and sisters in Christ.
definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
"prithee" but such is language development.)
Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
in the face of the historical reference.
tschus
pyotr
I was interested, so I hauled out my two volume edition of the OED.
Thank God for having 20/9000 eyesight ....
--
For many "I am spiritual, not religious".seems the short form of
"I retain the option to adjust my beliefs to fit my lifestyle,
nor be constrained by prior statements about what I said I believe."
P+Barker
Jan 13, 2022, 7:07:41 PM1/13/22
to
, pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Robert <no...@none.com> on Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:48:20 -0700 typed
>Robert <no...@none.com> on Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:48:20 -0700 typed
>>A short while back I posted some scripture which warned against those who
>>would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
>>also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
>>and sisters in Christ.
>
> Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
>definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
> The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
>manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
>expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
>"prithee" but such is language development.)
> Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
>in the face of the historical reference.
Robert forgets that God even made an entire commandment about honoring
>>would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
>>also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
>>and sisters in Christ.
>
> Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
>definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
> The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
>manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
>expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
>"prithee" but such is language development.)
> Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
>in the face of the historical reference.
parents. This includes Mary, the Mother of Jesus.
Ollie Smth
Jan 13, 2022, 8:36:55 PM1/13/22
to
On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 8:22:24 AM UTC+11, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> Robert <no...@none.com> on Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:48:20 -0700 typed in
> alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
> >A short while back I posted some scripture which warned against those who
> >would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
> >also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
> >and sisters in Christ.
> Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
> definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
>
> The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
> manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
> expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
> "prithee" but such is language development.)
>
> Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
> in the face of the historical reference.
Pray tell.
> Robert <no...@none.com> on Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:48:20 -0700 typed in
> alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
> >A short while back I posted some scripture which warned against those who
> >would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
> >also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
> >and sisters in Christ.
> Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
> definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
>
> The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
> manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
> expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
> "prithee" but such is language development.)
>
> Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
> in the face of the historical reference.
Dexter
Jan 13, 2022, 9:22:42 PM1/13/22
to
and opaque, archaic syntax of the KJV bible, even when he's
not directly quoting scripture. He thinks it makes him sound
holier and more authoritative. It's like he never actually
decends from the pulpit. It's weird. I wonder if he talks
to his wife like that? Or his mistress?
Ollie Smth
Jan 14, 2022, 12:02:29 AM1/14/22
to
P+Barker
Jan 14, 2022, 7:26:16 AM1/14/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 02:42:30 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Jan 13, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<sjf1ugtti3pgr4fl7...@4ax.com>):
>You forget the authority of his dad is and was far, far greater.
Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment.
>On Jan 13, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<sjf1ugtti3pgr4fl7...@4ax.com>):
Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment.
P+Barker
Jan 14, 2022, 7:27:24 AM1/14/22
to
On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 17:53:26 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Jan 13, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote
>(in article<kl51ugpdoco6thlst...@4ax.com>):
>definition of the word prayer, this shows us all what the Lord thinks and
>asks of us.
>
>“And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you,
>Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto
>have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy
>may be full.” (Joh 16:23-24)
>
>Who is it that we are to ask, per Jesus? And,...
>
>“Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with
>thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.” (Php 4:6)
>
>And regarding our path to God?
>
>“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh
>unto the Father, but by me.” (Joh 14:6)
>
>Thus your "historical reference is either amiss, or designed to point away
>from God, keep you sidetracked so as to fool you into believing you are godly
>all the time you are doing ungodly things.
>
You are sadly mistaken about the definition of prayer.
But then, what else is new?
>On Jan 13, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote
>(in article<kl51ugpdoco6thlst...@4ax.com>):
>
>> Robert <no...@none.com> on Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:48:20 -0700 typed in
>> alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>> > A short while back I posted some scripture which warned against those who
>> > would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
>> > also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
>> > and sisters in Christ.
>>
>> Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
>> definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
>>
>> The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
>> manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
>> expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
>> "prithee" but such is language development.)
>>
>> Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
>> in the face of the historical reference.
>>
>> tschus
>> pyotr
>
>I have stated this before and to you as well, you say I have only one
>> Robert <no...@none.com> on Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:48:20 -0700 typed in
>> alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>> > A short while back I posted some scripture which warned against those who
>> > would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
>> > also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
>> > and sisters in Christ.
>>
>> Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
>> definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
>>
>> The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
>> manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
>> expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
>> "prithee" but such is language development.)
>>
>> Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
>> in the face of the historical reference.
>>
>> tschus
>> pyotr
>
>definition of the word prayer, this shows us all what the Lord thinks and
>asks of us.
>
>“And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you,
>Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto
>have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy
>may be full.” (Joh 16:23-24)
>
>Who is it that we are to ask, per Jesus? And,...
>
>“Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with
>thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.” (Php 4:6)
>
>And regarding our path to God?
>
>“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh
>unto the Father, but by me.” (Joh 14:6)
>
>Thus your "historical reference is either amiss, or designed to point away
>from God, keep you sidetracked so as to fool you into believing you are godly
>all the time you are doing ungodly things.
>
You are sadly mistaken about the definition of prayer.
But then, what else is new?
Mattb
Jan 14, 2022, 3:22:40 PM1/14/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 07:26:14 -0500, P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I thought you claimed the RCC members did not go by the old
testament?
wrote:
testament?
Ollie Smth
Jan 14, 2022, 5:00:58 PM1/14/22
to
In this discourse, Jesus is comforting His Disciples of the stress they will face "... in that day..." v.23.
"... I assure you and most solemnly say to you, that you will weep and grieve [in great mourning], but the world will rejoice. You will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy...". v.20.
It's not a description of prayer as that interpretation interrupts the flow of that account.
P+Barker
Jan 14, 2022, 5:58:34 PM1/14/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:09:14 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Jan 14, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<fuq2ugl2qqte11j6f...@4ax.com>):
>His? Or whose?
pick one.
>On Jan 14, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<fuq2ugl2qqte11j6f...@4ax.com>):
pick one.
P+Barker
Jan 14, 2022, 6:07:30 PM1/14/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:22:39 -0800, Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com>
Never said that.
Catholics believe that the New Testament completes the Old Testament.
Catholics also believe that The books which are known as
Deuterocanonical books originally belong to the Old Testament.
Most Christian groups believe that of the Old Covenant, only parts
dealing with the moral law (as opposed to ceremonial law) are still
applicable, others believe that none apply, (roberto) dual-covenant
theologians believe that the Old Covenant remains valid only for Jews,
and a minority hold the view that all parts still apply ...
The Bible is divided into two main parts, the Old Testament and the
New Testament. The Old Testament was written before Jesus’ life, and
the New Testament was written after. There are many different kinds of
books in the Old Testament, including history, poetry, and prophecy.
The Old Testament contains wisdom and knowledge about God and about
ourselves. It also foreshadows and points to Christ. Even though it
was written before Jesus came, the Old Testament is important, and
Catholics don’t ignore it.
https://www.aboutcatholics.com/beliefs/catholics-believe-bible/
Catholics believe that whatever the Bible asserts to be true is
actually true. Does this mean that God must have created the world in
seven 24-hour days, or that Jesus wants us to cut off body parts if
they lead us to sin? No! Not everything stated in Scripture is
asserted. The truth the author of Genesis wanted to convey was that
God created the world out of love with a plan. When Jesus said that
you should cut off your hand if it causes you to sin (Matt 5:30), he
was using hyperbole to tell us how important it is that we avoid
whatever causes us to sin.
In the Pentateuch, (first five books of the Old Testament), there were
613 commandments that were given to the Israelites during their exodus
to their promised land. Those commanments are considered Mosaic law,
and were meant for those Jews, and are not meant for Christians today.
Jesus said: “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to
abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came
to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and
earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will
disappear until its purpose is achieved. So if you ignore the least
commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the
least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and
teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. But I warn
you—unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the
teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the
Kingdom of Heaven!” — MATTHEW 5:17-20
Catholics believe that the New Testament completes the Old Testament.
Catholics also believe that The books which are known as
Deuterocanonical books originally belong to the Old Testament.
Most Christian groups believe that of the Old Covenant, only parts
dealing with the moral law (as opposed to ceremonial law) are still
applicable, others believe that none apply, (roberto) dual-covenant
theologians believe that the Old Covenant remains valid only for Jews,
and a minority hold the view that all parts still apply ...
The Bible is divided into two main parts, the Old Testament and the
New Testament. The Old Testament was written before Jesus’ life, and
the New Testament was written after. There are many different kinds of
books in the Old Testament, including history, poetry, and prophecy.
The Old Testament contains wisdom and knowledge about God and about
ourselves. It also foreshadows and points to Christ. Even though it
was written before Jesus came, the Old Testament is important, and
Catholics don’t ignore it.
https://www.aboutcatholics.com/beliefs/catholics-believe-bible/
Catholics believe that whatever the Bible asserts to be true is
actually true. Does this mean that God must have created the world in
seven 24-hour days, or that Jesus wants us to cut off body parts if
they lead us to sin? No! Not everything stated in Scripture is
asserted. The truth the author of Genesis wanted to convey was that
God created the world out of love with a plan. When Jesus said that
you should cut off your hand if it causes you to sin (Matt 5:30), he
was using hyperbole to tell us how important it is that we avoid
whatever causes us to sin.
In the Pentateuch, (first five books of the Old Testament), there were
613 commandments that were given to the Israelites during their exodus
to their promised land. Those commanments are considered Mosaic law,
and were meant for those Jews, and are not meant for Christians today.
Jesus said: “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to
abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came
to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and
earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will
disappear until its purpose is achieved. So if you ignore the least
commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the
least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and
teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. But I warn
you—unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the
teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the
Kingdom of Heaven!” — MATTHEW 5:17-20
P+Barker
Jan 14, 2022, 6:09:36 PM1/14/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:10:32 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Jan 14, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<90r2ug17akars0gaq...@4ax.com>):
>Again you disagree with scripture that was quoted?
Nope. Your quote is: Verily, verily, I say unto you,
>On Jan 14, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<90r2ug17akars0gaq...@4ax.com>):
Nope. Your quote is: Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive,
that your joy may be full.” (Joh 16:23-24)
This has nothing to do with what you think is prayer.
Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive,
that your joy may be full.” (Joh 16:23-24)
Mattb
Jan 14, 2022, 9:15:46 PM1/14/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:07:26 -0500, P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com>
Then "How much of the Old Testament are we required to live by and
how do we know?"
how do we know?"
Mattb
Jan 14, 2022, 10:18:43 PM1/14/22
to
On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 13:22:16 -0800, pyotr filipivich
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Robert <no...@none.com> on Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:48:20 -0700 typed in
>alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>>A short while back I posted some scripture which warned against those who
>>would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
>>also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
>>and sisters in Christ.
>
> Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
>definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
The Bible says this “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Robert <no...@none.com> on Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:48:20 -0700 typed in
>alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>>A short while back I posted some scripture which warned against those who
>>would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
>>also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
>>and sisters in Christ.
>
> Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
>definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that
is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou
shalt not bow down thyself to them nor serve them”: second of the Ten
Commandments.
Do you consider this to be OK.
https://www.padreantonio1.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Catholic-Statues.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/iykbethanygistville.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/maria-idolatria-1.jpg?fit=594%2C459&ssl=1
https://i0.wp.com/iykbethanygistville.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/maria-idolatria-1.jpg?fit=594%2C459&ssl=1
This " any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above" seems quite
plain.
Ollie Smth
Jan 15, 2022, 12:07:57 AM1/15/22
to
" ... 'Lord, teach us to pray just as John also taught his disciples.'
He said to them, 'When you pray, say ...'". AMP
Ollie Smth
Jan 15, 2022, 12:19:57 AM1/15/22
to
First, to a rich young ruler -
"... if you wish to enter into eternal life, keep the commandments.”
He said to Jesus, “Which commandments?”
And Jesus answered, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not give false testimony;
Honor your father and mother; and love your neighbor as yourself” [that is, unselfishly seek the best or higher good for others]..." . Mat 19:16ff.
Second, scribes enquiring about which is the greatest commandment -
" ... Jesus answered, “The first and most important one is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord;
and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,
and with all your soul (life),
and with all your mind (thought, understanding),
and with all your strength.’
This is the second: ‘You shall [unselfishly] [a]love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.'...". Mar 12:28ff
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 15, 2022, 3:50:41 AM1/15/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:15:45 -0800, Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com>
All of it. But keep in mind if the NT changes something, we have to
take that into consideration:
(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
in righteousness,
Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf. By doing so he fulfilled the
Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
shadow:
(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
Sincerely James
Understand the Bible
www.jw.org
take that into consideration:
(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
in righteousness,
Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf. By doing so he fulfilled the
Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
shadow:
(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
Sincerely James
Understand the Bible
www.jw.org
Lucifer
Jan 15, 2022, 4:12:44 AM1/15/22
to
>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>in righteousness,
with breath?
>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>shadow:
>
>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
What a crazy God.
>shadow:
>
>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
Jesus should have stood up to God.
I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>Sincerely James
Liar!
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 15, 2022, 8:39:44 AM1/15/22
to
model car, you would follow all its directions, yes?
It's a similar thing with the Bible. It has instructions in the NT
that makes part of the OT as ended. Thus a true Bible follower has to
take all of that into consideration.
>
>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>in righteousness,
>
>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>with breath?
slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
day.)
>
>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>shadow:
>>
>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>
>What a crazy God.
>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>
>>Sincerely James
>
>Liar!
No, my pants are not on fire.
But I truly am sincere with these postings. People can accept the
truth from the Bible or not. We all wish they do. (even God)
P+Barker
Jan 15, 2022, 9:19:27 AM1/15/22
to
>(in article<g004ugdp3u368pi56...@4ax.com>):
>Ok, first one, You must be born again.
No, I don't.
Are you saying you do not KNOW the First Commandment?
Do I have to teach you everything?
Let's use your KJV:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
No, I don't.
Are you saying you do not KNOW the First Commandment?
Do I have to teach you everything?
Let's use your KJV:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
P+Barker
Jan 15, 2022, 9:20:33 AM1/15/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:15:45 -0800, Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com>
You don't have to do anything if you don't want to.
P+Barker
Jan 15, 2022, 9:26:17 AM1/15/22
to
>(in article<mi04ug507ue5729sj...@4ax.com>):
>Poor Peter said prayer was asking not worshipping, now you say it is neither?
Peter said what?
Please provide a reference.
>So what do I think is prayer.
In the Catholic Church, prayer is "the raising of one's mind and heart
to God or the requesting of good things from God." It is an act of the
moral virtue of religion, which Catholic theologians identify as a
part of the cardinal virtue of justice. Prayer may be expressed
vocally or mentally. Wikipedia
https://www.google.com/search?q=Catholic+view%3A+What+is+Prayer&oq=Catholic+view%3A+What+is+Prayer&aqs=chrome..69i57.11973j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
When Catholics say we are praying to God and praying to saints we are
talking about qualitatively different things as different as a monkey
is to a man. The Protestant generally only has one species in mind
when he thinks of prayer—prayer to God that necessarily includes
adoration. But one need only pick up a dictionary to discover there
are in truth different definitions and therefore different usages of
the same word in English.
Prayer:
The act or practice of praying.
An earnest request; entreaty; supplication
(a) humble entreaty addressed to God, to a god, etc.: (b) a request
made to God, etc.; as, her prayer for his safe return; (c) any set
formula for praying, as to God.
Prayer is not, by definition, necessarily equated with the adoration
that is due God alone. Prayer can certainly involve an act of
adoration when it is directed to God, but the term does not
necessarily denote adoration. It can simply mean “an entreaty.”
In Old English we did not have so much of a difficulty here. One could
say to another, “Pray tell…” or, “I pray thee my lord…” In fact, the
King James Bible gives us many examples of the term “prayer” being
used analogous to the way Catholics use it when we “pray” to saints.
With a touch of Old English, when Bathsheba makes a request of King
Solomon in I Kings 2:20, the KJV has her say: “I pray thee, say me not
nay.” There was never a question here of whether the King James Bible
was presenting Bathsheba as adoring her son as God, or praying to him
in a way that is forbidden. It was not. Nor are Catholics when we pray
to saints. We certainly honor them when we pray to them. In other
words, we do not talk to them like we talk to the boys at the local
bar and grill. We show great respect and reverence for them. But we do
not adore them as we adore God alone. And we also petition them for
their prayers because Scripture makes very clear that we need each
other as members of the body of Christ (see I Cor. 12:12-27).
Defining the Difference
The Catholic Church has gone to great lengths to define the essential
difference between prayer to God and prayer to saints. You may have
noticed that I have been using the English word “adoration” to refer
to that honor we give to God alone. I do so because in Catholic
tradition when using the English language, “worship” has often been
used of honor given to the saints. “Adoration” is the term that has
come to be used for God alone. “Worship” and “adoration” are English
translations of terms the Church uses in her definitve teaching to
define the difference between the honor that is given God and the
honor proffered to the saints.
The Second Ecumenical Council of Nicaea, in AD 787, referred to this
“adoration” given to God alone as latreia (Greek) or latria (Latin).
This comes from a Greek root that we find in Scripture in multiple
places and in different words. In Gal. 5:20, for example, we find St.
Paul condemning “idolatry”—idolatreia. This term literally means
“idol-adoration.” Another example is found in Hebrews 9:6 where the
inspired author refers to the ministry of priests in the Old Testament
as offering their “ritual duties” to God (Gr.—latreias).
The Council Fathers used latria in this sense of “adoration” that
ought only to be given to God. When the Council considered praying to
saints, the fathers taught that this prayer should include the honor
that is owed them in justice, but never adoration. They chose to use
douleia (Greek)or dulia (Latin) in order to make this distinction
clear. Hence, we have an entirely different kind of prayer offered to
the saints than to God. In the Council’s Doctrinal Definition, the
fathers declared:
The more frequently they are seen in representational art, the more
are those who see them drawn to remember and long for those who serve
as models, and to pay these images the tribute of salutation and
respectful veneration. Certainly this is not the full adoration
{latria} in accordance with our faith, which is properly paid only to
the divine nature, but it resembles that given to the figure of the
honored and life-giving cross, and also to the holy books of the
gospels and to other sacred cult objects. Further, people are drawn to
honor these images with the offering of incense and lights, as was
piously established by ancient custom. Indeed, the honor paid to an
image traverses it, reaching the model, and he who venerates the
image, venerates the person represented in that image.
Is prayer necessarily an act of worship? No, it is not. For those who
are still inclined to disagree, pray tell us why at
http://forums.catholic.com/.
Peter said what?
Please provide a reference.
>So what do I think is prayer.
In the Catholic Church, prayer is "the raising of one's mind and heart
to God or the requesting of good things from God." It is an act of the
moral virtue of religion, which Catholic theologians identify as a
part of the cardinal virtue of justice. Prayer may be expressed
vocally or mentally. Wikipedia
https://www.google.com/search?q=Catholic+view%3A+What+is+Prayer&oq=Catholic+view%3A+What+is+Prayer&aqs=chrome..69i57.11973j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
When Catholics say we are praying to God and praying to saints we are
talking about qualitatively different things as different as a monkey
is to a man. The Protestant generally only has one species in mind
when he thinks of prayer—prayer to God that necessarily includes
adoration. But one need only pick up a dictionary to discover there
are in truth different definitions and therefore different usages of
the same word in English.
Prayer:
The act or practice of praying.
An earnest request; entreaty; supplication
(a) humble entreaty addressed to God, to a god, etc.: (b) a request
made to God, etc.; as, her prayer for his safe return; (c) any set
formula for praying, as to God.
Prayer is not, by definition, necessarily equated with the adoration
that is due God alone. Prayer can certainly involve an act of
adoration when it is directed to God, but the term does not
necessarily denote adoration. It can simply mean “an entreaty.”
In Old English we did not have so much of a difficulty here. One could
say to another, “Pray tell…” or, “I pray thee my lord…” In fact, the
King James Bible gives us many examples of the term “prayer” being
used analogous to the way Catholics use it when we “pray” to saints.
With a touch of Old English, when Bathsheba makes a request of King
Solomon in I Kings 2:20, the KJV has her say: “I pray thee, say me not
nay.” There was never a question here of whether the King James Bible
was presenting Bathsheba as adoring her son as God, or praying to him
in a way that is forbidden. It was not. Nor are Catholics when we pray
to saints. We certainly honor them when we pray to them. In other
words, we do not talk to them like we talk to the boys at the local
bar and grill. We show great respect and reverence for them. But we do
not adore them as we adore God alone. And we also petition them for
their prayers because Scripture makes very clear that we need each
other as members of the body of Christ (see I Cor. 12:12-27).
Defining the Difference
The Catholic Church has gone to great lengths to define the essential
difference between prayer to God and prayer to saints. You may have
noticed that I have been using the English word “adoration” to refer
to that honor we give to God alone. I do so because in Catholic
tradition when using the English language, “worship” has often been
used of honor given to the saints. “Adoration” is the term that has
come to be used for God alone. “Worship” and “adoration” are English
translations of terms the Church uses in her definitve teaching to
define the difference between the honor that is given God and the
honor proffered to the saints.
The Second Ecumenical Council of Nicaea, in AD 787, referred to this
“adoration” given to God alone as latreia (Greek) or latria (Latin).
This comes from a Greek root that we find in Scripture in multiple
places and in different words. In Gal. 5:20, for example, we find St.
Paul condemning “idolatry”—idolatreia. This term literally means
“idol-adoration.” Another example is found in Hebrews 9:6 where the
inspired author refers to the ministry of priests in the Old Testament
as offering their “ritual duties” to God (Gr.—latreias).
The Council Fathers used latria in this sense of “adoration” that
ought only to be given to God. When the Council considered praying to
saints, the fathers taught that this prayer should include the honor
that is owed them in justice, but never adoration. They chose to use
douleia (Greek)or dulia (Latin) in order to make this distinction
clear. Hence, we have an entirely different kind of prayer offered to
the saints than to God. In the Council’s Doctrinal Definition, the
fathers declared:
The more frequently they are seen in representational art, the more
are those who see them drawn to remember and long for those who serve
as models, and to pay these images the tribute of salutation and
respectful veneration. Certainly this is not the full adoration
{latria} in accordance with our faith, which is properly paid only to
the divine nature, but it resembles that given to the figure of the
honored and life-giving cross, and also to the holy books of the
gospels and to other sacred cult objects. Further, people are drawn to
honor these images with the offering of incense and lights, as was
piously established by ancient custom. Indeed, the honor paid to an
image traverses it, reaching the model, and he who venerates the
image, venerates the person represented in that image.
Is prayer necessarily an act of worship? No, it is not. For those who
are still inclined to disagree, pray tell us why at
http://forums.catholic.com/.
P+Barker
Jan 15, 2022, 1:06:06 PM1/15/22
to
On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 09:28:07 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Jan 15, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<7rl5ugtl50et291lb...@4ax.com>):
>Excuse me? You said to pick which is the first commandment, so I picked the
>first one given my Jesus, not from the Mosaic Law.
You are mistaken, once again.
Matthew 22:36-40
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and
with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and
greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your
neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these
two commandments.”
>Plus from your standpoint they are exactly the same being.
Trinity.
God, the Father
God, the Son
God, the Holy Spirit.
Something you do no understand, so you refuse to acknowlege.
non-christian
>On Jan 15, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<7rl5ugtl50et291lb...@4ax.com>):
>first one given my Jesus, not from the Mosaic Law.
You are mistaken, once again.
Matthew 22:36-40
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and
with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and
greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your
neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these
two commandments.”
>Plus from your standpoint they are exactly the same being.
Trinity.
God, the Father
God, the Son
God, the Holy Spirit.
Something you do no understand, so you refuse to acknowlege.
non-christian
Mattb
Jan 15, 2022, 1:08:30 PM1/15/22
to
P+Barker
Jan 15, 2022, 1:09:15 PM1/15/22
to
Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>
>> > Poor Peter said prayer was asking not worshipping, now you say it is
>> > neither?
>>
>> Peter said what?
>> Please provide a reference.
No answer from robt.
>
>> > Poor Peter said prayer was asking not worshipping, now you say it is
>> > neither?
>>
>> Peter said what?
>> Please provide a reference.
He is afraid to prove the stupid crap he makes up.
>understand 25% of what you posted.
Don't pretend to know what I think or what I believe.
You fall short.
because you are a liar and a troll.
I believe everything I posted.
servant
Jan 15, 2022, 1:36:08 PM1/15/22
to
One poster wondered about obligation to follow what is prescribed in OT:
>> Then "How much of the Old Testament are we required to live by and
>>how do we know?"
>
>All of it. But keep in mind if the NT changes something, we have to
>take that into consideration:
"new light" that the jw vatican can use to do a 180 degree U turn on
doctrine at any time; how does it hold up to your formula of how the NT can
remove some OT teaching. .
Does this NT verse dismiss even that mistaken jw vatican theory of
scripture as you describe?
Jude
1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common
salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you
that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered
unto the saints.
The "once delevered" phrase is an archaic english usage.
Most translations now update to our use and meaning of the phrase in some
variation,ie. "faith once delevered for all time".
Isn't that a off switch for the jw vatican use of the "new light" bit as
permission to change doctrine radically at any time; given your remarks
above?
Lucifer
Jan 15, 2022, 5:05:17 PM1/15/22
to
>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>in righteousness,
>>
>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>with breath?
>
>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>day.)
>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>shadow:
>>>
>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>
>>What a crazy God.
>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>
>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>Sincerely James
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 16, 2022, 2:49:22 AM1/16/22
to
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 09:05:11 +1100, Lucifer
Yes, we are all sinners and stumble many times. Jesus is the only man
on earth to follow al the writings of God.
>
>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>shadow:
>>>>
>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>
>>>What a crazy God.
>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>
>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>
>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
What time? The ending of the world? Or was it the time of the gentiles
to come to a close?
>>Sincerely James
on earth to follow al the writings of God.
>
>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>in righteousness,
>>>
>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>with breath?
>>
>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>day.)
>
>God has an excuse to be slow.
Not "excuse", but He has a "reason".
>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>in righteousness,
>>>
>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>with breath?
>>
>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>day.)
>
>God has an excuse to be slow.
>
>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>shadow:
>>>>
>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>
>>>What a crazy God.
>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>
>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>
>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
to come to a close?
>>Sincerely James
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 16, 2022, 4:42:24 AM1/16/22
to
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 09:05:11 +1100, Lucifer
Not impossible, but also not probable.
>
>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>in righteousness,
>>>
>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>with breath?
>>
>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>day.)
>
>God has an excuse to be slow.
Rather, He has a "reason" to be what we consider slowness:
(2 Peter 3:9) Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some
people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does
not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to
repentance.
>
>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>shadow:
>>>>
>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>
>>>What a crazy God.
>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>
>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>
>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
It did for the times of the gentiles.
>>Sincerely James
>
>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>in righteousness,
>>>
>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>with breath?
>>
>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>day.)
>
>God has an excuse to be slow.
(2 Peter 3:9) Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some
people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does
not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to
repentance.
>
>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>shadow:
>>>>
>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>
>>>What a crazy God.
>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>
>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>
>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
>>Sincerely James
P+Barker
Jan 16, 2022, 7:21:44 AM1/16/22
to
>(in article<0536ugd72081ov5da...@4ax.com>):
>Nope, He was speaking to a Jew, as a Jew. Not as a born again member. Of the
>kingdom of Heaven.
EXCuuuuuuuse ME.
I thought you said: "Look at the first commandment."
And after discussing the Commandment: "Honor thy father and thy
mother," I expected you to remain on the subject matter being
discussed. I forget who I am talking with, and that you are unable to
stay on subject matter.
>> Something you do no understand, so you refuse to acknowlege.
>> non-christian
>
>Then perhaps you can explain why Jesus said to Martha, Your God and My God.
If you plan to quote the Bible, try to get it straight.
Another example of you talking out of your ass.
Look it up and try to decide who Jesus was talking to.
Hint: Mary........ Mary M...... Not Martha
Jesus to Mary Magdalene: I am Going to My Father and Your Father, to
My God and Your God – John 20:11-18
16 Jesus said to her, “Mary!” She turned and said to him in Hebrew,
“Rabbouni,” which means Teacher.
17 Jesus said to her, “Stop holding on to me, for I have not yet
ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am
going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
Mary Magdalene followed Jesus wherever He went because she realised
that Jesus was no ordinary man. The life history of Mary Magdalene is
very dramatic but very relevant to us because she was considered a
sinful woman but after meeting Jesus, she turned a new leaf and
started serving Jesus until He ascended to heaven.
During her dramatic saving, she said not a word, but bathed Jesus’
feet with her tears, wiped them with the hair of her head and kissed
them in humility. Jesus in return said to her, “your sins are
forgiven.” All these happened inside a pharisees house where Jesus
said that those whose many sins are forgiven will have more gratitude
to God than those who had little sins. This is why, because Mary was a
sinner before, she had so much love and gratitute for Jesus Christ and
this is manifested during His passion, death and resurrection.
https://catholicreadings.org/i-am-going-to-my-father-and-your-father-to-my-god-and-your-god/
Jesus lowered Himself in terms of position in order to come to earth
as an otherwise normal human baby, grow into an ordinary adult that
didn't stand out, then give Himself as the perfect sacrifice on the
cross.
Given Jesus' act of humbling Himself to live as a human, with all the
temptations, needs (like eating), and vulnerabilities that come with
being human, it would make sense that He mentioned God the Father as
His God as well.
As a human, Jesus was subject to the will of God the Father (Jesus
mentions this while praying in the garden before his crucifixion).
After His resurrection, He is returned to full divinity (He walked
through walls—not a human trait) because the deed to serve as the
foundation for Christianity was done.
>kingdom of Heaven.
EXCuuuuuuuse ME.
I thought you said: "Look at the first commandment."
And after discussing the Commandment: "Honor thy father and thy
mother," I expected you to remain on the subject matter being
discussed. I forget who I am talking with, and that you are unable to
stay on subject matter.
>> Something you do no understand, so you refuse to acknowlege.
>> non-christian
>
If you plan to quote the Bible, try to get it straight.
Another example of you talking out of your ass.
Look it up and try to decide who Jesus was talking to.
Hint: Mary........ Mary M...... Not Martha
Jesus to Mary Magdalene: I am Going to My Father and Your Father, to
My God and Your God – John 20:11-18
16 Jesus said to her, “Mary!” She turned and said to him in Hebrew,
“Rabbouni,” which means Teacher.
17 Jesus said to her, “Stop holding on to me, for I have not yet
ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am
going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
Mary Magdalene followed Jesus wherever He went because she realised
that Jesus was no ordinary man. The life history of Mary Magdalene is
very dramatic but very relevant to us because she was considered a
sinful woman but after meeting Jesus, she turned a new leaf and
started serving Jesus until He ascended to heaven.
During her dramatic saving, she said not a word, but bathed Jesus’
feet with her tears, wiped them with the hair of her head and kissed
them in humility. Jesus in return said to her, “your sins are
forgiven.” All these happened inside a pharisees house where Jesus
said that those whose many sins are forgiven will have more gratitude
to God than those who had little sins. This is why, because Mary was a
sinner before, she had so much love and gratitute for Jesus Christ and
this is manifested during His passion, death and resurrection.
https://catholicreadings.org/i-am-going-to-my-father-and-your-father-to-my-god-and-your-god/
Jesus lowered Himself in terms of position in order to come to earth
as an otherwise normal human baby, grow into an ordinary adult that
didn't stand out, then give Himself as the perfect sacrifice on the
cross.
Given Jesus' act of humbling Himself to live as a human, with all the
temptations, needs (like eating), and vulnerabilities that come with
being human, it would make sense that He mentioned God the Father as
His God as well.
As a human, Jesus was subject to the will of God the Father (Jesus
mentions this while praying in the garden before his crucifixion).
After His resurrection, He is returned to full divinity (He walked
through walls—not a human trait) because the deed to serve as the
foundation for Christianity was done.
P+Barker
Jan 16, 2022, 7:22:50 AM1/16/22
to
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 01:19:16 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Jan 15, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<u936ug5knh3c197ln...@4ax.com>):
No answer from robt.
He is afraid to prove the stupid crap he makes up.
>
>On Jan 15, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<u936ug5knh3c197ln...@4ax.com>):
>
>> Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > > > Poor Peter said prayer was asking not worshipping, now you say it is
>> > > > neither?
>> > >
>> > > Peter said what?
>> > > Please provide a reference.
>>
>> No answer from robt.
>> He is afraid to prove the stupid crap he makes up.
>
>That is what pyotr / Pete said, please catch up with the posts?
>> Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > > > Poor Peter said prayer was asking not worshipping, now you say it is
>> > > > neither?
>> > >
>> > > Peter said what?
>> > > Please provide a reference.
>>
>> No answer from robt.
>> He is afraid to prove the stupid crap he makes up.
>
No answer from robt.
He is afraid to prove the stupid crap he makes up.
>
P+Barker
Jan 16, 2022, 11:35:46 AM1/16/22
to
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 07:42:11 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Jan 16, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<4i28ug5dncfsglq26...@4ax.com>):
>Go back and reread the post.
YOU SAID: "Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment."
YOU SAID: "Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment."
YOU SAID: "Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment."
YOU SAID: "Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment."
>On Jan 16, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<4i28ug5dncfsglq26...@4ax.com>):
YOU SAID: "Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment."
YOU SAID: "Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment."
YOU SAID: "Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment."
YOU SAID: "Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment."
P+Barker
Jan 16, 2022, 11:37:52 AM1/16/22
to
Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Jan 16, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>> > Nope, He was speaking to a Jew, as a Jew. Not as a born again member. Of the
>> > kingdom of Heaven.
>>
>> EXCuuuuuuuse ME.
>> I thought you said: "Look at the first commandment."
>> And after discussing the Commandment: "Honor thy father and thy
>> mother," I expected you to remain on the subject matter being
>> discussed. I forget who I am talking with, and that you are unable to
>> stay on subject matter.
>to do, but you decided to obfuscate the issue and past in something entirely
>unrelated.
>I am glad to see you did look it up, and yes, I did forget the woman's name
>who was involved, so kudos on that find, but oh scholarly educator, explain
>what Jesus said and how it can be true.
Obviously you did not read my post.
>On Jan 16, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>> > Nope, He was speaking to a Jew, as a Jew. Not as a born again member. Of the
>> > kingdom of Heaven.
>>
>> EXCuuuuuuuse ME.
>> I thought you said: "Look at the first commandment."
>> And after discussing the Commandment: "Honor thy father and thy
>> mother," I expected you to remain on the subject matter being
>> discussed. I forget who I am talking with, and that you are unable to
>> stay on subject matter.
>> > Then perhaps you can explain why Jesus said to Martha, Your God and My God.
>>
>> If you plan to quote the Bible, try to get it straight.
>> Another example of you talking out of your ass.
>>
>> Look it up and try to decide who Jesus was talking to.
>> Hint: Mary........ Mary M...... Not Martha
>> Jesus to Mary Magdalene: I am Going to My Father and Your Father, to
>> My God and Your God – John 20:11-18
>> 16 Jesus said to her, “Mary!” She turned and said to him in Hebrew,
>> “Rabbouni,” which means Teacher.
>> 17 Jesus said to her, “Stop holding on to me, for I have not yet
>> ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am
>> going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
>Aye, there is the phrase, you did not explain it which is what you were asked
>>
>> If you plan to quote the Bible, try to get it straight.
>> Another example of you talking out of your ass.
>>
>> Look it up and try to decide who Jesus was talking to.
>> Hint: Mary........ Mary M...... Not Martha
>> Jesus to Mary Magdalene: I am Going to My Father and Your Father, to
>> My God and Your God – John 20:11-18
>> 16 Jesus said to her, “Mary!” She turned and said to him in Hebrew,
>> “Rabbouni,” which means Teacher.
>> 17 Jesus said to her, “Stop holding on to me, for I have not yet
>> ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am
>> going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
>to do, but you decided to obfuscate the issue and past in something entirely
>unrelated.
>I am glad to see you did look it up, and yes, I did forget the woman's name
>who was involved, so kudos on that find, but oh scholarly educator, explain
>what Jesus said and how it can be true.
Obviously you did not read my post.
P+Barker
Jan 16, 2022, 11:38:53 AM1/16/22
to
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 07:49:11 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Jan 16, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<jf38ugdjglfus2j7k...@4ax.com>):
Then repeat it... in an explainable way.
>On Jan 16, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<jf38ugdjglfus2j7k...@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 01:19:16 -0800, Robert<no...@none.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Jan 15, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>> > (in article<u936ug5knh3c197ln...@4ax.com>):
>> >
>> > > Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > > Poor Peter said prayer was asking not worshipping, now you say it is
>> > > > > > neither?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Peter said what?
>> > > > > Please provide a reference.
>> > >
>> > > No answer from robt.
>> > > He is afraid to prove the stupid crap he makes up.
>> >
>> > That is what pyotr / Pete said, please catch up with the posts?
>>
>> No answer from robt.
>> He is afraid to prove the stupid crap he makes up.
>
>I have no fear, and it is in the thread.
>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 01:19:16 -0800, Robert<no...@none.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Jan 15, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>> > (in article<u936ug5knh3c197ln...@4ax.com>):
>> >
>> > > Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > > Poor Peter said prayer was asking not worshipping, now you say it is
>> > > > > > neither?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Peter said what?
>> > > > > Please provide a reference.
>> > >
>> > > No answer from robt.
>> > > He is afraid to prove the stupid crap he makes up.
>> >
>> > That is what pyotr / Pete said, please catch up with the posts?
>>
>> No answer from robt.
>> He is afraid to prove the stupid crap he makes up.
>
Then repeat it... in an explainable way.
Mattb
Jan 16, 2022, 2:39:37 PM1/16/22
to
longer apply?
pyotr filipivich
Jan 16, 2022, 8:26:50 PM1/16/22
to
Robert <no...@none.com> on Thu, 13 Jan 2022 17:53:26 -0800 typed in
alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>> Robert <no...@none.com> on Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:48:20 -0700 typed in
>> alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
which he decides they must mean. 5000 years of human history is
something which happens to other people."
Never mind what other have been using the word to mean, even in
scripture, Robert knows that the only meaning of "prayer" is worship
of God.
Not for him the idea that someone might respectfully request
another to do something, say intercede with God on their behalf. Nope,
for him that's idolatry and paganism.
It does help explain why he keeps coming up with these outlandish
errors. For him "prayer" means worship.
Just as reverence or venerate mean worship.
>“And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you,
>Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto
>have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy
>may be full.” (Joh 16:23-24)
>
>Who is it that we are to ask, per Jesus? And,...
You obviously have never had intercessory prayer explained to you.
That is when "I" pray God on someone else's behalf.
But of course, you cannot ask another to pray for you, as you
consider asking others to pray to be worship of them. You really are
a scream.
troy, speaking ex cathedra that the only meaning of the word "prayer"
is worship.
I wonder if he has ever read the Book of James, where James write
that if any man is sick, to call the deacons and have them pray for
him.
Robert really is a scream.
>
--
For many "I am spiritual, not religious".seems the short form of
"I retain the option to adjust my beliefs to fit my lifestyle,
nor be constrained by prior statements about what I said I believe."
alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>> Robert <no...@none.com> on Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:48:20 -0700 typed in
>> alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>> > A short while back I posted some scripture which warned against those who
>> > would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
>> > also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
>> > and sisters in Christ.
>>
>> Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
>> definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
>>
>> The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
>> manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
>> expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
>> "prithee" but such is language development.)
>>
>> Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
>> in the face of the historical reference.
>>
>> > would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc, Which
>> > also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
>> > and sisters in Christ.
>>
>> Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
>> definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
>>
>> The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
>> manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
>> expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
>> "prithee" but such is language development.)
>>
>> Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
>> in the face of the historical reference.
>>
>> tschus
>> pyotr
>
>I have stated this before and to you as well, you say I have only one
>definition of the word prayer, this shows us all what the Lord thinks and
>asks of us.
Bingo! Like I said, Robert reduces the meanings of words to that
>> pyotr
>
>I have stated this before and to you as well, you say I have only one
>definition of the word prayer, this shows us all what the Lord thinks and
>asks of us.
which he decides they must mean. 5000 years of human history is
something which happens to other people."
Never mind what other have been using the word to mean, even in
scripture, Robert knows that the only meaning of "prayer" is worship
of God.
Not for him the idea that someone might respectfully request
another to do something, say intercede with God on their behalf. Nope,
for him that's idolatry and paganism.
It does help explain why he keeps coming up with these outlandish
errors. For him "prayer" means worship.
Just as reverence or venerate mean worship.
>“And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you,
>Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto
>have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy
>may be full.” (Joh 16:23-24)
>
>Who is it that we are to ask, per Jesus? And,...
That is when "I" pray God on someone else's behalf.
But of course, you cannot ask another to pray for you, as you
consider asking others to pray to be worship of them. You really are
a scream.
>
>“Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with
>thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.” (Php 4:6)
>
>And regarding our path to God?
>
>“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh
>unto the Father, but by me.” (Joh 14:6)
>
>Thus your "historical reference is either amiss, or designed to point away
>from God, keep you sidetracked so as to fool you into believing you are godly
>all the time you are doing ungodly things.
And once again, Robert just blithely ignores 2000 years of his
>“Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with
>thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.” (Php 4:6)
>
>And regarding our path to God?
>
>“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh
>unto the Father, but by me.” (Joh 14:6)
>
>Thus your "historical reference is either amiss, or designed to point away
>from God, keep you sidetracked so as to fool you into believing you are godly
>all the time you are doing ungodly things.
troy, speaking ex cathedra that the only meaning of the word "prayer"
is worship.
I wonder if he has ever read the Book of James, where James write
that if any man is sick, to call the deacons and have them pray for
him.
Robert really is a scream.
>
--
For many "I am spiritual, not religious".seems the short form of
"I retain the option to adjust my beliefs to fit my lifestyle,
nor be constrained by prior statements about what I said I believe."
P+Barker
Jan 17, 2022, 8:45:42 AM1/17/22
to
>(in article<fbi8ug93u0j0d4p19...@4ax.com>):
>
>> Why it is incorrect to pray to Saints, and Mary, per scripture.
>> P+Barker<PBa...@gmail.com>
>> January 16, 2022 at 8:37:50 AM PST
>I read it, and snipped out what you did not say.
>
>> Why it is incorrect to pray to Saints, and Mary, per scripture.
>> P+Barker<PBa...@gmail.com>
>> January 16, 2022 at 8:37:50 AM PST
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 17, 2022, 9:04:30 AM1/17/22
to
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 09:05:11 +1100, Lucifer
As I said before, it's not impossible, but because of our
imperfections, not probable.
>
>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>in righteousness,
>>>
>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>with breath?
>>
>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>day.)
>
>God has an excuse to be slow.
Slow to us is lightening fast to God. 1000 years to us, is to God, but
a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>shadow:
>>>>
>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>
>>>What a crazy God.
>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>
>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>
>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
Yes you have said that a lot. Now its time to get to the meat. Show me
a Watchtower article that says that. If you can't find one, then quit
saying that because it wouldn't be true.
>>Sincerely James
imperfections, not probable.
>
>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>in righteousness,
>>>
>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>with breath?
>>
>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>day.)
>
>God has an excuse to be slow.
a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>shadow:
>>>>
>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>
>>>What a crazy God.
>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>
>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>
>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
a Watchtower article that says that. If you can't find one, then quit
saying that because it wouldn't be true.
>>Sincerely James
P+Barker
Jan 17, 2022, 3:03:17 PM1/17/22
to
On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:02:45 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Jan 17, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<qnsaugtp86ggjg10f...@4ax.com>):
>> January 17, 2022 at 5:45:38 AM PST
>On Jan 17, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<qnsaugtp86ggjg10f...@4ax.com>):
>> January 17, 2022 at 5:45:38 AM PST
pyotr filipivich
Jan 17, 2022, 6:36:45 PM1/17/22
to
P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com> on Mon, 17 Jan 2022 08:45:38 -0500 typed
in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>
You have to remember Robert only uses the definitions of words
which have been revealed to him.
Anything else Robert just blithely dismisses as wrong, no doubt
invented by pagans at the Council of Nicea, or something.
in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>
which have been revealed to him.
Anything else Robert just blithely dismisses as wrong, no doubt
invented by pagans at the Council of Nicea, or something.
Ollie Smth
Jan 17, 2022, 8:53:24 PM1/17/22
to
Lucifer
Jan 18, 2022, 3:23:14 AM1/18/22
to
>>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>>in righteousness,
>>>>
>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>with breath?
>>>
>>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>>day.)
>>
>>God has an excuse to be slow.
>
>Slow to us is lightening fast to God. 1000 years to us, is to God, but
>a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
with breath?
>>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>>shadow:
>>>>>
>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>
>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>
>>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>>
>>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
>
>Yes you have said that a lot. Now its time to get to the meat. Show me
>a Watchtower article that says that. If you can't find one, then quit
>saying that because it wouldn't be true.
You should ask your slave masters.
>>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>>shadow:
>>>>>
>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>
>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>
>>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>>
>>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
>
>Yes you have said that a lot. Now its time to get to the meat. Show me
>a Watchtower article that says that. If you can't find one, then quit
>saying that because it wouldn't be true.
>Sincerely James
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 18, 2022, 8:52:56 AM1/18/22
to
On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 19:23:08 +1100, Lucifer
I disagree. Give me an example if you can.
>
>>>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>>>in righteousness,
>>>>>
>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>with breath?
>>>>
>>>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>>>day.)
>>>
>>>God has an excuse to be slow.
>>
>>Slow to us is lightening fast to God. 1000 years to us, is to God, but
>>a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
>
>Thus God has no idea what matters to us.
The Scripture doesn't say that.
>
>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>with breath?
The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
Jesus can do that.
God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>
>>>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>>>shadow:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>
>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>
>>>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>>>
>>>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
>>
>>Yes you have said that a lot. Now its time to get to the meat. Show me
>>a Watchtower article that says that. If you can't find one, then quit
>>saying that because it wouldn't be true.
>
>You should ask your slave masters.
That is a cop out. If that were true, surely you could find literature
copied on some JW hate web pages. So, this time I CHALLENGE you to
support your statement "The WT says time will run out in 1914.". You
are meaning the end of the world. So prove it. I have challenged many
people on this issue, but no one has found anything.
There are also people proclaiming the WT says the end of the world
would come in 1975. Don't believe everything you read.
>
>>>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>>>in righteousness,
>>>>>
>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>with breath?
>>>>
>>>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>>>day.)
>>>
>>>God has an excuse to be slow.
>>
>>Slow to us is lightening fast to God. 1000 years to us, is to God, but
>>a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
>
>Thus God has no idea what matters to us.
>
>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>with breath?
family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
Jesus can do that.
God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>
>>>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>>>shadow:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>
>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>
>>>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>>>
>>>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
>>
>>Yes you have said that a lot. Now its time to get to the meat. Show me
>>a Watchtower article that says that. If you can't find one, then quit
>>saying that because it wouldn't be true.
>
>You should ask your slave masters.
copied on some JW hate web pages. So, this time I CHALLENGE you to
support your statement "The WT says time will run out in 1914.". You
are meaning the end of the world. So prove it. I have challenged many
people on this issue, but no one has found anything.
There are also people proclaiming the WT says the end of the world
would come in 1975. Don't believe everything you read.
Lucifer
Jan 18, 2022, 10:40:51 AM1/18/22
to
On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 08:52:51 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 19:23:08 +1100, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 09:04:25 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 09:05:11 +1100, Lucifer
>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 08:39:40 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:12:38 +1100, Lucifer
>>>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 03:50:36 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:15:45 -0800, Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:07:26 -0500, P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:22:39 -0800, Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 19:23:08 +1100, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 09:04:25 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 09:05:11 +1100, Lucifer
>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 08:39:40 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:12:38 +1100, Lucifer
>>>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 03:50:36 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:15:45 -0800, Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:07:26 -0500, P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:22:39 -0800, Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>> Then "How much of the Old Testament are we required to live by and
>>>>>>>>how do we know?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>All of it. But keep in mind if the NT changes something, we have to
>>>>>>>take that into consideration:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>By NT James means the Watchtower committee.
>>>>>
>>>>>That would be a WC, not NT. If you have a schematic to build a toy
>>>>>model car, you would follow all its directions, yes?
>>>>>
>>>>>It's a similar thing with the Bible. It has instructions in the NT
>>>>>that makes part of the OT as ended. Thus a true Bible follower has to
>>>>>take all of that into consideration.
>>>>
>>>>It is impossible for you to follow the entire bible.
>>>
>>>As I said before, it's not impossible, but because of our
>>>imperfections, not probable.
>>
>>If you follow parts of the OT you are ignoring parts of the NT.
>
>I disagree. Give me an example if you can.
You said parts of the NT counteract parts of the OT.
>>>>>>>>how do we know?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>All of it. But keep in mind if the NT changes something, we have to
>>>>>>>take that into consideration:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>By NT James means the Watchtower committee.
>>>>>
>>>>>That would be a WC, not NT. If you have a schematic to build a toy
>>>>>model car, you would follow all its directions, yes?
>>>>>
>>>>>It's a similar thing with the Bible. It has instructions in the NT
>>>>>that makes part of the OT as ended. Thus a true Bible follower has to
>>>>>take all of that into consideration.
>>>>
>>>>It is impossible for you to follow the entire bible.
>>>
>>>As I said before, it's not impossible, but because of our
>>>imperfections, not probable.
>>
>>If you follow parts of the OT you are ignoring parts of the NT.
>
>I disagree. Give me an example if you can.
>>>>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>>>>in righteousness,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>
>>>>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>>>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>>>>day.)
>>>>
>>>>God has an excuse to be slow.
>>>
>>>Slow to us is lightening fast to God. 1000 years to us, is to God, but
>>>a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
>>
>>Thus God has no idea what matters to us.
>
>The Scripture doesn't say that.
>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>with breath?
>
>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>
>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>Jesus can do that.
>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>>>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>>>>shadow:
>>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>>
>>>>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>>>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>>>>
>>>>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
>>>
>>>Yes you have said that a lot. Now its time to get to the meat. Show me
>>>a Watchtower article that says that. If you can't find one, then quit
>>>saying that because it wouldn't be true.
>>
>>You should ask your slave masters.
>
>That is a cop out. If that were true, surely you could find literature
>copied on some JW hate web pages. So, this time I CHALLENGE you to
>support your statement "The WT says time will run out in 1914.". You
>are meaning the end of the world. So prove it. I have challenged many
>people on this issue, but no one has found anything.
Jehovah’s Witnesses Abandon Key Tenet : Doctrine: Sect has quietly
retreated from prediction that those alive in 1914 would see end of
world.
By JOHN DART
Nov. 4, 1995 12 AM PT
TIMES STAFF WRITER
The Jehovah’s Witnesses have quietly abandoned a prediction that
people alive in 1914 would live to see Christ’s kingdom on earth--a
major doctrine that lent urgency to the sect’s door-to-door warnings
that a bloody end of the world is imminent.
Some ex-Witnesses predict the change will hurt the “sky-is-falling
preaching” of the 4.7-million-member global organization and disturb
longtime members who made personal and financial decisions based on
the promise that they would soon be living in heaven on earth.
The now-abandoned tenet was based on the sect’s interpretation of a
biblical reference to a “generation” that the Witnesses connected with
the year 1914, declaring that the Kingdom of God would be established
on earth before this generation died off. Even the youngest people
alive in 1914 are now at least 80 years old, however, and their ranks
are swiftly dwindling.
A former leader of the Witnesses calls it a “monumental change” and an
ex-Witness in Milwaukee who runs a national phone hot line says calls
are coming in from members distressed by the move.
>There are also people proclaiming the WT says the end of the world
>would come in 1975. Don't believe everything you read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses#Failed_predictions
Failed predictions that were either explicitly stated or strongly
implied, particularly linked to dates in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925
and 1975, have led to the alteration or abandonment of some
teachings.
>Sincerely James
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 18, 2022, 8:22:24 PM1/18/22
to
On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 02:40:44 +1100, Lucifer
What I said was that the Bible teaches us that Jesus FULFILLED all of
the Mosaic Laws. Thus they were no longer binding upon Christians.
which says not to murder.
>
>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>with breath?
>>
>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>
>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>Jesus can do that.
>
>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
Absolutely positively true.
Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
which they passed on to their offspring.
the Mosaic Laws. Thus they were no longer binding upon Christians.
>
>>>>>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>>>>>in righteousness,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>>>>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>>>>>day.)
>>>>>
>>>>>God has an excuse to be slow.
>>>>
>>>>Slow to us is lightening fast to God. 1000 years to us, is to God, but
>>>>a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
>>>
>>>Thus God has no idea what matters to us.
>>
>>The Scripture doesn't say that.
>
>Reality overrides scripture.
I see. Then the antics of a serial killer overrides the Scripture
>>>>>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>>>>>in righteousness,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>>>>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>>>>>day.)
>>>>>
>>>>>God has an excuse to be slow.
>>>>
>>>>Slow to us is lightening fast to God. 1000 years to us, is to God, but
>>>>a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
>>>
>>>Thus God has no idea what matters to us.
>>
>>The Scripture doesn't say that.
>
>Reality overrides scripture.
which says not to murder.
>
>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>with breath?
>>
>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>
>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>Jesus can do that.
>
>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
which they passed on to their offspring.
Lucifer
Jan 19, 2022, 2:50:10 AM1/19/22
to
they no longer apply.
>>>>>>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>>>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>>>>>>in righteousness,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>>>>>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>>>>>>day.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>God has an excuse to be slow.
>>>>>
>>>>>Slow to us is lightening fast to God. 1000 years to us, is to God, but
>>>>>a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
>>>>
>>>>Thus God has no idea what matters to us.
>>>
>>>The Scripture doesn't say that.
>>
>>Reality overrides scripture.
>
>I see. Then the antics of a serial killer overrides the Scripture
>which says not to murder.
>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>with breath?
>>>
>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>
>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>Jesus can do that.
>>
>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>
>Absolutely positively true.
>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>which they passed on to their offspring.
God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>
>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
No comment?
>>>>>>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>>>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>>>>>>shadow:
Jesus sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself.
>>>>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>>>>>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes you have said that a lot. Now its time to get to the meat. Show me
>>>>>a Watchtower article that says that. If you can't find one, then quit
>>>>>saying that because it wouldn't be true.
>>>>
>>>>You should ask your slave masters.
>>>
>>>That is a cop out. If that were true, surely you could find literature
>>>copied on some JW hate web pages. So, this time I CHALLENGE you to
>>>support your statement "The WT says time will run out in 1914.". You
>>>are meaning the end of the world. So prove it. I have challenged many
>>>people on this issue, but no one has found anything.
>>
>>https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-11-04-me-64883-story.html
>Sincerely James
Mattb
Jan 21, 2022, 3:51:36 PM1/21/22
to
image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that
is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou
shalt not bow down thyself to them nor serve them”
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of
any thing that is in heaven above" Seems rather plain and easy to
understand.
Now do you reject this "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them nor
serve them” this also is easy to understand and I have provided
evidence Catholic even Popes bow before 'graven images'. Can you
explain why that is OK?
Mattb
Jan 21, 2022, 3:53:04 PM1/21/22
to
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 07:42:11 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Jan 16, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<4i28ug5dncfsglq26...@4ax.com>):
>On Jan 16, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<4i28ug5dncfsglq26...@4ax.com>):
>Go back and reread the post.
Patrick is limited in understanding the brainwashing is to strong.
Ollie Smth
Jan 21, 2022, 5:26:01 PM1/21/22
to
And we are happy to live with that without conflict of conscience.
> Now do you reject this "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them nor
> serve them” this also is easy to understand and I have provided
> evidence Catholic even Popes bow before 'graven images'. Can you
> explain why that is OK?
In some formal situations [like a court of law, or in the presence of royalty or dignitories], bowing may occur as a mark of respect.
Therefore, bowing is not necessarily worshiping in modern times or the secular world.
In ancient times, bowing is associated with servitude to idols.
The keyword is here is servitude [serve] to 'graven image'.
P+Barker
Jan 21, 2022, 5:57:09 PM1/21/22
to
Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Do you deny these words “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven
>image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that
>is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou
>shalt not bow down thyself to them nor serve them”
Why would anyone deny this?
> Do you deny these words “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven
>image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that
>is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou
>shalt not bow down thyself to them nor serve them”
It is in the Bible.
>"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of
>any thing that is in heaven above" Seems rather plain and easy to
>understand.
>Now do you reject this "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them nor
>serve them” this also is easy to understand and I have provided
>evidence Catholic even Popes bow before 'graven images'. Can you
>explain why that is OK?
grav·en im·age
plural noun: graven images
a carved idol or representation of a god used as an object of worship.
A well-known example of an idol often referred to as a graven image
comes from the Bible. A story in the book of Exodus tells how the
Israelites made a statue of a golden calf to worship while Moses was
away receiving the Ten Commandments, which prohibit the worship of
graven images.
Definition of graven image: an object (such as a statue) that is
worshipped as a god or in place of a god.
Is art a graven image?
No. “Graven images” refers to objects that are worshipped. Art, in
Western Civilization, is not considered to be an object of worship,
but an expression of beauty, and the expression of ideas.
+ Matty needs to grow up.
Ollie Smth
Jan 21, 2022, 6:17:30 PM1/21/22
to
If we are to "... love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind ... ", to me it's what takes up all our energy, time, and money in lieu of Him.
While we may not have idols as in ancient days, we do have modern equivalents e.g. consumerism, the shopping mall, etc - whatever takes our attention away from Him.
Mattb
Jan 21, 2022, 7:22:10 PM1/21/22
to
On Fri, 21 Jan 2022 17:57:07 -0500, P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Do you deny these words “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven
>>image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that
>>is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou
>>shalt not bow down thyself to them nor serve them”
>
>Why would anyone deny this?
>It is in the Bible.
>
>
>>"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of
>>any thing that is in heaven above" Seems rather plain and easy to
>>understand.
>
>Then don't do it.
>
>
>
>>Now do you reject this "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them nor
>>serve them” this also is easy to understand and I have provided
>>evidence Catholic even Popes bow before 'graven images'. Can you
>>explain why that is OK?
>
>The Catholic church does not have any graven images.
>
>grav·en im·age
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/graven-image
an idol.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/idol
noun
an image or other material object representing a deity to which
religious worship is addressed.
Bible.
an image of a deity other than God.
the deity itself.
any person or thing regarded with blind admiration, adoration, or
devotion:
Madame Curie had been her childhood idol.
a mere image or semblance of something, visible but without substance,
as a phantom.
a figment of the mind; fantasy.
a false conception or notion; fallacy.
"any person or thing regarded with blind admiration, adoration, or
devotion:"
Good try.
wrote:
> Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Do you deny these words “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven
>>image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that
>>is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou
>>shalt not bow down thyself to them nor serve them”
>
>Why would anyone deny this?
>It is in the Bible.
>
>
>>"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of
>>any thing that is in heaven above" Seems rather plain and easy to
>>understand.
>
>Then don't do it.
>
>
>
>>Now do you reject this "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them nor
>>serve them” this also is easy to understand and I have provided
>>evidence Catholic even Popes bow before 'graven images'. Can you
>>explain why that is OK?
>
>The Catholic church does not have any graven images.
>
>grav·en im·age
an idol.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/idol
noun
an image or other material object representing a deity to which
religious worship is addressed.
Bible.
an image of a deity other than God.
the deity itself.
any person or thing regarded with blind admiration, adoration, or
devotion:
Madame Curie had been her childhood idol.
a mere image or semblance of something, visible but without substance,
as a phantom.
a figment of the mind; fantasy.
a false conception or notion; fallacy.
"any person or thing regarded with blind admiration, adoration, or
devotion:"
Good try.
Lucifer
Jan 21, 2022, 9:21:35 PM1/21/22
to
It's not incorrect. It's just pointless.
Lucifer
Jan 21, 2022, 9:25:04 PM1/21/22
to
P+Barker
Jan 22, 2022, 8:09:23 AM1/22/22
to
On Fri, 21 Jan 2022 17:08:23 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Jan 21, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<0bemugtnf553sa4r7...@4ax.com>):
>Look at all the idols carved out of Marble, as well as wood in the RCC.
OK. Been there, done that.
>Like the Pieta or whatever is is called of Mary and the baby Jesus.
OK. Been there, done that.
I've seen the Pieta, and it is a marvelous piece of art.
I think the artist is an excellent stone sculpturer.
>But what difference does it make to you, as you don't believe the Bible
>anyways, and Jesus is just a dead man. Etc. etc. So how about stopping the
>pretense of calling yourself a christian and just call yourself a RC of the
>RCC.
Speak for yourself, troll.
>On Jan 21, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<0bemugtnf553sa4r7...@4ax.com>):
OK. Been there, done that.
>Like the Pieta or whatever is is called of Mary and the baby Jesus.
OK. Been there, done that.
I've seen the Pieta, and it is a marvelous piece of art.
I think the artist is an excellent stone sculpturer.
>But what difference does it make to you, as you don't believe the Bible
>anyways, and Jesus is just a dead man. Etc. etc. So how about stopping the
>pretense of calling yourself a christian and just call yourself a RC of the
>RCC.
Speak for yourself, troll.
Rod
Jan 22, 2022, 9:40:30 AM1/22/22
to
On 1/21/2022 7:08 PM, Robert wrote:
> On Jan 21, 2022, P+Barker wrote
> (in article<0bemugtnf553sa4r7...@4ax.com>):
or wood like toy soldiers and plastic dinosaurs.
Common sense tells me that there are people that know better than
to bow down to lifeless things and worship them, but many and ancient
man did not know better.
> On Jan 21, 2022, P+Barker wrote
> (in article<0bemugtnf553sa4r7...@4ax.com>):
> Look at all the idols carved out of Marble, as well as wood in the RCC.
>
>
> Like the Pieta or whatever is is called of Mary and the baby Jesus.
But then you should look at all the kids toys made of plastic
or wood like toy soldiers and plastic dinosaurs.
Common sense tells me that there are people that know better than
to bow down to lifeless things and worship them, but many and ancient
man did not know better.
pyotr filipivich
Jan 22, 2022, 9:16:06 PM1/22/22
to
Robert <no...@none.com> on Mon, 17 Jan 2022 02:11:46 -0800 typed in
alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>On Jan 16, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote
>(in article<nlf9ug5hflfhe25qo...@4ax.com>):
>You are incorrect, and consistent repeating of a lie does not make it become
>truth.
>
>Many is the time I wrote on "To pray in this manner" as the Lord spoke of.
And yet you seem completely unable to grasp the concept that the
word also means to humbly ask other people to do something.
Specifically to ask another person to intercede with the Lord God
Almighty on 'my' behalf.
Have someone read the book of James to you.
alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>On Jan 16, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote
>(in article<nlf9ug5hflfhe25qo...@4ax.com>):
>truth.
>
>Many is the time I wrote on "To pray in this manner" as the Lord spoke of.
And yet you seem completely unable to grasp the concept that the
word also means to humbly ask other people to do something.
Specifically to ask another person to intercede with the Lord God
Almighty on 'my' behalf.
Have someone read the book of James to you.
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 23, 2022, 1:35:05 PM1/23/22
to
On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:50:03 +1100, Lucifer
Negative. What you do today that was formally those laws, is up to
you.
For example, under those Mosaic Laws if you worked on the Sabbath
(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
longer valid.
>
>>>>>>>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>>>>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>>>>>>>in righteousness,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>>>>>>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>>>>>>>day.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>God has an excuse to be slow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Slow to us is lightening fast to God. 1000 years to us, is to God, but
>>>>>>a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
>>>>>
>>>>>Thus God has no idea what matters to us.
>>>>
>>>>The Scripture doesn't say that.
>>>
>>>Reality overrides scripture.
>>
>>I see. Then the antics of a serial killer overrides the Scripture
>>which says not to murder.
>
>Exactly. The bible has no say on how we should behave,
What do you think the 10 commandments were?
>
>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>with breath?
>>>>
>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>
>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>
>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>
>>Absolutely positively true.
>
>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
If God wanted you to suffer, you would placed in boiling oil or
something.
opinion.
>
>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>
>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>
>No comment?
Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of is
house, he would be robbed. No, God doe not like wickedness. That's
there was the great flood in Genesis.
>
>>>>>>>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>>>>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>>>>>>>shadow:
>
>Jesus sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself.
What do you mean?
>
>>>>>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>>>>>>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes you have said that a lot. Now its time to get to the meat. Show me
>>>>>>a Watchtower article that says that. If you can't find one, then quit
>>>>>>saying that because it wouldn't be true.
>>>>>
>>>>>You should ask your slave masters.
>>>>
>>>>That is a cop out. If that were true, surely you could find literature
>>>>copied on some JW hate web pages. So, this time I CHALLENGE you to
>>>>support your statement "The WT says time will run out in 1914.". You
>>>>are meaning the end of the world. So prove it. I have challenged many
>>>>people on this issue, but no one has found anything.
>>>
>>>https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-11-04-me-64883-story.html
>
>No comment?
I have already commented on this. Find we just one JW article that
says the END OF THE WORLD will happen in 1914. Show me the source
document so I can verify it.
>
>>Sincerely James
you.
For example, under those Mosaic Laws if you worked on the Sabbath
(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
longer valid.
>
>>>>>>>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>>>>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>>>>>>>in righteousness,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>>>>>>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>>>>>>>day.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>God has an excuse to be slow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Slow to us is lightening fast to God. 1000 years to us, is to God, but
>>>>>>a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
>>>>>
>>>>>Thus God has no idea what matters to us.
>>>>
>>>>The Scripture doesn't say that.
>>>
>>>Reality overrides scripture.
>>
>>I see. Then the antics of a serial killer overrides the Scripture
>>which says not to murder.
>
>Exactly. The bible has no say on how we should behave,
>
>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>with breath?
>>>>
>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>
>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>
>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>
>>Absolutely positively true.
>
>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
something.
>
>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>
>You need to be careful how your write things.
>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>
>You need to be careful how your write things.
>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
opinion.
>
>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>
>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>
>No comment?
serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of is
house, he would be robbed. No, God doe not like wickedness. That's
there was the great flood in Genesis.
>
>>>>>>>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>>>>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>>>>>>>shadow:
>
>Jesus sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself.
>
>>>>>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>>>>>>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes you have said that a lot. Now its time to get to the meat. Show me
>>>>>>a Watchtower article that says that. If you can't find one, then quit
>>>>>>saying that because it wouldn't be true.
>>>>>
>>>>>You should ask your slave masters.
>>>>
>>>>That is a cop out. If that were true, surely you could find literature
>>>>copied on some JW hate web pages. So, this time I CHALLENGE you to
>>>>support your statement "The WT says time will run out in 1914.". You
>>>>are meaning the end of the world. So prove it. I have challenged many
>>>>people on this issue, but no one has found anything.
>>>
>>>https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-11-04-me-64883-story.html
>
>No comment?
says the END OF THE WORLD will happen in 1914. Show me the source
document so I can verify it.
>
>>Sincerely James
Rod
Jan 23, 2022, 2:25:41 PM1/23/22
to
On 1/22/2022 1:24 PM, Robert wrote:
> On Jan 22, 2022, Rod wrote
> (in article <ssh50s$8mv$1...@dont-email.me>):
> Those are not objects of worship. Have you seen any shrines built for them?
What right have we of demanding that they stop when we are unable to
prove the existence of our own God? I think that it is far better that
these people find God thru their own experience and learn directly from
Him rather than mankind
and it
> also seems to slip past the good Roman Catholic who when viewing these things
> light a candle, or burn incense, X themselves as they bend the knee and offer
> a short prayer before the many things they see in Churches and Basilica's
> around the world.
Do not fret Robert...Catholics everywhere will be able to recall
our anger at some of their practices and deeds, but we are just as
frail as they.
It is really in mankind himself that violence lives. Nationality
and religion are just a face of convenience for the evil in men.
>
> Most are not like you in that regard.
>
> I have seen the "Pieta", and seen all the good RC's paying homage to what it
> represents. Some slyly, some openly, all acting as if it were a "holy place".
>
> The only ones that didn't were the "outsiders" the tourists, who wanted to
> see the work of a famous artist, and what all the Hub Bub was about.
>
> As a side note: In the OT there is a story of when the Jews were far away
> from their God, when they were overtaken as a people, and the oppressors
> stole the Arc of the Covenant from the temple of God. They put it in one of
> their temples with images of their gods. They would wake up to see a toppled
> image of their god before the Ark, set it back up only to see it down again
> but broken in pieces.
>
> They got a clue pretty quick of what was going on, and so they built a new
> fresh wagon, upon which they put the Ark of the Covenant, and hooked up the
> wagon to a couple oxen, and let it go, watching to see what happened. The
> Oxen went to Israel with the Ark. I don't recall what book that story was in,
> but it should not be too difficult to find if you're interested in the read.
> On Jan 22, 2022, Rod wrote
> (in article <ssh50s$8mv$1...@dont-email.me>):
>>
>>
>> Common sense tells me that there are people that know better than
>> to bow down to lifeless things and worship them, but many and ancient
>> man did not know better.
>
> Common sense stopped none of the heathen from worshipping their gods,
>>
>> Common sense tells me that there are people that know better than
>> to bow down to lifeless things and worship them, but many and ancient
>> man did not know better.
>
What right have we of demanding that they stop when we are unable to
prove the existence of our own God? I think that it is far better that
these people find God thru their own experience and learn directly from
Him rather than mankind
and it
> also seems to slip past the good Roman Catholic who when viewing these things
> light a candle, or burn incense, X themselves as they bend the knee and offer
> a short prayer before the many things they see in Churches and Basilica's
> around the world.
Do not fret Robert...Catholics everywhere will be able to recall
our anger at some of their practices and deeds, but we are just as
frail as they.
It is really in mankind himself that violence lives. Nationality
and religion are just a face of convenience for the evil in men.
>
> Most are not like you in that regard.
>
> I have seen the "Pieta", and seen all the good RC's paying homage to what it
> represents. Some slyly, some openly, all acting as if it were a "holy place".
>
> The only ones that didn't were the "outsiders" the tourists, who wanted to
> see the work of a famous artist, and what all the Hub Bub was about.
>
> As a side note: In the OT there is a story of when the Jews were far away
> from their God, when they were overtaken as a people, and the oppressors
> stole the Arc of the Covenant from the temple of God. They put it in one of
> their temples with images of their gods. They would wake up to see a toppled
> image of their god before the Ark, set it back up only to see it down again
> but broken in pieces.
>
> They got a clue pretty quick of what was going on, and so they built a new
> fresh wagon, upon which they put the Ark of the Covenant, and hooked up the
> wagon to a couple oxen, and let it go, watching to see what happened. The
> Oxen went to Israel with the Ark. I don't recall what book that story was in,
> but it should not be too difficult to find if you're interested in the read.
P+Barker
Jan 23, 2022, 3:25:45 PM1/23/22
to
Rod <dx70...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 1/22/2022 1:24 PM, Robert wrote:
>>>>> Is art a graven image?
>>>>> No. “Graven images” refers to objects that are worshipped. Art, in
>>>>> Western Civilization, is not considered to be an object of worship,
>>>>> but an expression of beauty, and the expression of ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> + Matty needs to grow up.
>>>>
>>>> Look at all the idols carved out of Marble, as well as wood in the RCC.
>>>>
>>>> Like the Pieta or whatever is is called of Mary and the baby Jesus.
>>>
>>> But then you should look at all the kids toys made of plastic
>>> or wood like toy soldiers and plastic dinosaurs.
>>
>> Those are not objects of worship. Have you seen any shrines built for them?
>>>
>>>
>>> Common sense tells me that there are people that know better than
>>> to bow down to lifeless things and worship them, but many and ancient
>>> man did not know better.
>>
>> Common sense stopped none of the heathen from worshipping their gods,
>
> What right have we of demanding that they stop when we are unable to
>prove the existence of our own God? I think that it is far better that
>these people find God thru their own experience and learn directly from
>Him rather than mankind
Good answer.
>On 1/22/2022 1:24 PM, Robert wrote:
>>>>> Is art a graven image?
>>>>> No. “Graven images” refers to objects that are worshipped. Art, in
>>>>> Western Civilization, is not considered to be an object of worship,
>>>>> but an expression of beauty, and the expression of ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> + Matty needs to grow up.
>>>>
>>>> Look at all the idols carved out of Marble, as well as wood in the RCC.
>>>>
>>>> Like the Pieta or whatever is is called of Mary and the baby Jesus.
>>>
>>> But then you should look at all the kids toys made of plastic
>>> or wood like toy soldiers and plastic dinosaurs.
>>
>> Those are not objects of worship. Have you seen any shrines built for them?
>>>
>>>
>>> Common sense tells me that there are people that know better than
>>> to bow down to lifeless things and worship them, but many and ancient
>>> man did not know better.
>>
>> Common sense stopped none of the heathen from worshipping their gods,
>
> What right have we of demanding that they stop when we are unable to
>prove the existence of our own God? I think that it is far better that
>these people find God thru their own experience and learn directly from
>Him rather than mankind
Ollie Smth
Jan 24, 2022, 1:40:07 AM1/24/22
to
On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 7:25:45 AM UTC+11, P+Barker wrote:
> Rod <dx70...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On 1/22/2022 1:24 PM, Robert wrote:
>
>
> >>>>> Is art a graven image?
> >>>>> No. “Graven images” refers to objects that are worshipped. Art, in
> >>>>> Western Civilization, is not considered to be an object of worship,
> >>>>> but an expression of beauty, and the expression of ideas.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> + Matty needs to grow up.
> >>>>
> >>>> Look at all the idols carved out of Marble, as well as wood in the RCC.
> >>>>
> >>>> Like the Pieta or whatever is is called of Mary and the baby Jesus.
> >>>
> >>> But then you should look at all the kids toys made of plastic
> >>> or wood like toy soldiers and plastic dinosaurs.
> >>
> >> Those are not objects of worship. Have you seen any shrines built for them?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Common sense tells me that there are people that know better than
> >>> to bow down to lifeless things and worship them, but many and ancient
> >>> man did not know better.
It's no different from adopting the appropriate postures at the Arlington Tomb Of The Unknown Soldier, or at the Lincoln Memorial, or events on Memorial Day; wherein we pay honor and respect.
> Rod <dx70...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On 1/22/2022 1:24 PM, Robert wrote:
>
>
> >>>>> Is art a graven image?
> >>>>> No. “Graven images” refers to objects that are worshipped. Art, in
> >>>>> Western Civilization, is not considered to be an object of worship,
> >>>>> but an expression of beauty, and the expression of ideas.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> + Matty needs to grow up.
> >>>>
> >>>> Look at all the idols carved out of Marble, as well as wood in the RCC.
> >>>>
> >>>> Like the Pieta or whatever is is called of Mary and the baby Jesus.
> >>>
> >>> But then you should look at all the kids toys made of plastic
> >>> or wood like toy soldiers and plastic dinosaurs.
> >>
> >> Those are not objects of worship. Have you seen any shrines built for them?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Common sense tells me that there are people that know better than
> >>> to bow down to lifeless things and worship them, but many and ancient
> >>> man did not know better.
Does not amount to be the worship of the dead.
Lucifer
Jan 24, 2022, 3:04:54 AM1/24/22
to
>For example, under those Mosaic Laws if you worked on the Sabbath
>(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
>or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
>longer valid.
>>>>>>>>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>>>>>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>>>>>>>>in righteousness,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>>>>>>>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>>>>>>>>day.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>God has an excuse to be slow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Slow to us is lightening fast to God. 1000 years to us, is to God, but
>>>>>>>a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thus God has no idea what matters to us.
>>>>>
>>>>>The Scripture doesn't say that.
>>>>
>>>>Reality overrides scripture.
>>>
>>>I see. Then the antics of a serial killer overrides the Scripture
>>>which says not to murder.
>>
>>Exactly. The bible has no say on how we should behave,
>
>What do you think the 10 commandments were?
>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>
>>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>>
>>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>>
>>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>>
>>>Absolutely positively true.
>>
>>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
>
>If God wanted you to suffer, you would placed in boiling oil or
>something.
way that we could suffer then placed us in a world where we would
suffer.
>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>
>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>
>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>opinion.
What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>
>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>opinion.
>>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>>
>>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>
>>No comment?
>
>Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
>serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
>house, he would be robbed.
Do any of those things happen?
>No, God does not like wickedness.
Why did God create so many things he doesn't like?
>That's (why) there was the great flood in Genesis.
That's why there are no wicked people today.
>>>>>>>>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>>>>>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>>>>>>>>shadow:
>>
>>Jesus sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself.
>
>What do you mean?
>>>>>>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You better hope and pray (sorry about that) that you are right. It may
>>>>>>>>>be the only chance you have. And time is running out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The WT says time will run out in 1914.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes you have said that a lot. Now its time to get to the meat. Show me
>>>>>>>a Watchtower article that says that. If you can't find one, then quit
>>>>>>>saying that because it wouldn't be true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You should ask your slave masters.
>>>>>
>>>>>That is a cop out. If that were true, surely you could find literature
>>>>>copied on some JW hate web pages. So, this time I CHALLENGE you to
>>>>>support your statement "The WT says time will run out in 1914.". You
>>>>>are meaning the end of the world. So prove it. I have challenged many
>>>>>people on this issue, but no one has found anything.
>>>>
>>>>https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-11-04-me-64883-story.html
>>
>>No comment?
>
>I have already commented on this. Find we just one JW article that
>says the END OF THE WORLD will happen in 1914. Show me the source
>document so I can verify it.
Jehovah’s Witnesses Abandon Key Tenet : Doctrine: Sect has
quietly retreated from prediction that those alive in 1914
would see end of world.
By JOHN DART
Nov. 4, 1995 12 AM PT
TIMES STAFF WRITER
The Jehovah’s Witnesses have quietly abandoned a prediction that
people alive in 1914 would live to see Christ’s kingdom on earth--a
major doctrine that lent urgency to the sect’s door-to-door warnings
that a bloody end of the world is imminent.
>>>Sincerely James
quietly retreated from prediction that those alive in 1914
would see end of world.
By JOHN DART
Nov. 4, 1995 12 AM PT
TIMES STAFF WRITER
The Jehovah’s Witnesses have quietly abandoned a prediction that
people alive in 1914 would live to see Christ’s kingdom on earth--a
major doctrine that lent urgency to the sect’s door-to-door warnings
that a bloody end of the world is imminent.
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 24, 2022, 11:36:26 AM1/24/22
to
On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 19:04:47 +1100, Lucifer
Oh really?
(Exodus 35:2) Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will
become something holy to you, a Sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah.
Anybody doing work on it will be put to death.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>>>>>>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>>>>>>>>>in righteousness,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>>>>>>>>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>>>>>>>>>day.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>God has an excuse to be slow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Slow to us is lightening fast to God. 1000 years to us, is to God, but
>>>>>>>>a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thus God has no idea what matters to us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Scripture doesn't say that.
>>>>>
>>>>>Reality overrides scripture.
>>>>
>>>>I see. Then the antics of a serial killer overrides the Scripture
>>>>which says not to murder.
>>>
>>>Exactly. The bible has no say on how we should behave,
>>
>>What do you think the 10 commandments were?
>
>A meaningless bible passage
Yes, we should kill our neighbors. And we should steal from them, We
should take our neighbor's wife and have sex with her. We should shame
our father and mother. Yes, how did they ever get to write such
meaningless Bible Scriptures.
And what is worse, is that Jesus added "love your neighbor as
yourself" and even to love your enemies. Can't have either of those.
>
>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>>>
>>>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>>>
>>>>Absolutely positively true.
>>>
>>>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
>>
>>If God wanted you to suffer, you would placed in boiling oil or
>>something.
>
>If God wanted us to suffer he would have created us in such a
>way that we could suffer then placed us in a world where we would
>suffer.
And we owe it all to Adam.
>
>>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>>
>>>You need to be careful how you write things.
>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>
>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>opinion.
>
>What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
I never said it was. It is Bible fact. Archeologists have inspected
the area of that tower, and found other such building projects.
>>>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>>>
>>>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>>
>>>No comment?
>>
>>Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
>>serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
>>out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of his
>>house, he would be robbed.
>
>Do any of those things happen?
All the time.
>
>>No, God does not like wickedness.
>
>Why did God create so many things he doesn't like?
Again, after creating, He said 'it was very good'.
>
>>That's (why) there was the great flood in Genesis.
>
>That's why there are no wicked people today.
Yes, the world's prisons are full of 'good' people today.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>>>>>>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>>>>>>>>>shadow:
>>>
>>>Jesus sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself.
>>
>>What do you mean?
>
>What sort of God requires a semi-human sacrifice?
A loving God. (what's with this "semi-human" stuff?
Thanks for trying, but you didn't answer my question. That was John
Dart's opinion. I asked for a JW published article, not someone's
opinion. So try it again.
>>>>Sincerely James
(Exodus 35:2) Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will
become something holy to you, a Sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah.
Anybody doing work on it will be put to death.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>>>>>>>>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>>>>>>>>>>in righteousness,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>God does not fail. What He says will always come to pass. It may seem
>>>>>>>>>>slow to us, but not according to God's time. (1000 years to God is a
>>>>>>>>>>day.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>God has an excuse to be slow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Slow to us is lightening fast to God. 1000 years to us, is to God, but
>>>>>>>>a day. (2 Pet 3:8)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thus God has no idea what matters to us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Scripture doesn't say that.
>>>>>
>>>>>Reality overrides scripture.
>>>>
>>>>I see. Then the antics of a serial killer overrides the Scripture
>>>>which says not to murder.
>>>
>>>Exactly. The bible has no say on how we should behave,
>>
>>What do you think the 10 commandments were?
>
>A meaningless bible passage
should take our neighbor's wife and have sex with her. We should shame
our father and mother. Yes, how did they ever get to write such
meaningless Bible Scriptures.
And what is worse, is that Jesus added "love your neighbor as
yourself" and even to love your enemies. Can't have either of those.
>
>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>>>
>>>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>>>
>>>>Absolutely positively true.
>>>
>>>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
>>
>>If God wanted you to suffer, you would placed in boiling oil or
>>something.
>
>If God wanted us to suffer he would have created us in such a
>way that we could suffer then placed us in a world where we would
>suffer.
>
>>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>>
>>>You need to be careful how you write things.
>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>
>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>opinion.
>
>What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
the area of that tower, and found other such building projects.
>>>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>>>
>>>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>>
>>>No comment?
>>
>>Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
>>serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
>>out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of his
>>house, he would be robbed.
>
>Do any of those things happen?
>
>>No, God does not like wickedness.
>
>Why did God create so many things he doesn't like?
>
>>That's (why) there was the great flood in Genesis.
>
>That's why there are no wicked people today.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>>>>>>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>>>>>>>>>shadow:
>>>
>>>Jesus sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself.
>>
>>What do you mean?
>
>What sort of God requires a semi-human sacrifice?
Dart's opinion. I asked for a JW published article, not someone's
opinion. So try it again.
>>>>Sincerely James
Lucifer
Jan 24, 2022, 7:49:05 PM1/24/22
to
>>>For example, under those Mosaic Laws if you worked on the Sabbath
>>>(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
>>>or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
>>>longer valid.
>>
>>That has nothing to do with what the bible says.
>
>Oh really?
>
>(Exodus 35:2) Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will
>become something holy to you, a Sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah.
>Anybody doing work on it will be put to death.
What else in the bible is unacceptable to you?
And we should steal from them, We should take members of other
tribes and have sex with them. We should love abusive members
of our tribe and never report them to authorities.
1800 victims and 1000 offenders in Australia alone.
>Yes, how did they ever get to write such meaningless Bible Scriptures.
>And what is worse, is that Jesus added "love your neighbor as
>yourself" and even to love your enemies. Can't have either of those.
>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Absolutely positively true.
>>>>
>>>>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
>>>
>>>If God wanted you to suffer, you would placed in boiling oil or
>>>something.
>>
>>If God wanted us to suffer he would have created us in such a
>>way that we could suffer then placed us in a world where we would
>>suffer.
>
>And we owe it all to Adam.
>>>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>>>
>>>>You need to be careful how you write things.
>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>
>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>opinion.
>>
>>What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
>
>I never said it was.
>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
You responded;
>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>opinion.
>>>opinion.
>It is Bible fact. Archeologists have inspected
>the area of that tower, and found other such building projects.
Genesis 11:1
>the area of that tower, and found other such building projects.
"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech."
Can't allow that!
>>>>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>>>
>>>>No comment?
>>>
>>>Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
>>>serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
>>>out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of his
>>>house, he would be robbed.
>
>>Do any of those things happen?
>
>All the time.
>>>No, God does not like wickedness.
>>
>>Why did God create so many things he doesn't like?
>
>Again, after creating, He said 'it was very good'.
>>>That's (why) there was the great flood in Genesis.
>>
>>That's why there are no wicked people today.
>
>Yes, the world's prisons are full of 'good' people today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>shadow:
>>>>
>>>>Jesus sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself.
>>>
>>>What do you mean?
>>
>>What sort of God requires a semi-human sacrifice?
>
>A loving God. (what's with this "semi-human" stuff?
DECADES in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would
be significant developments in 1914. What were these, and what
evidence points to 1914 as such an important year?
>Sincerely James
P+Barker
Jan 25, 2022, 7:57:12 AM1/25/22
to
Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Jan 23, 2022, Rod wrote
>> On 1/22/2022 1:24 PM, Robert wrote:
>> > Common sense stopped none of the heathen from worshipping their gods,
>>
>> What right have we of demanding that they stop when we are unable to
>> prove the existence of our own God? I think that it is far better that
>> these people find God thru their own experience and learn directly from
>> Him rather than mankind
>
>We have no right to demand. The matter is not in our hands. I have no idea
>where that kind of reasoning enters in. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts
>people of their sin, yet even He does not demand.
Jesus sent His disciples out to spread the Good News.
He also told them if they were turned away, just dust off your dandals
and move on.
>On Jan 23, 2022, Rod wrote
>> On 1/22/2022 1:24 PM, Robert wrote:
>> > Common sense stopped none of the heathen from worshipping their gods,
>>
>> What right have we of demanding that they stop when we are unable to
>> prove the existence of our own God? I think that it is far better that
>> these people find God thru their own experience and learn directly from
>> Him rather than mankind
>
>where that kind of reasoning enters in. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts
>people of their sin, yet even He does not demand.
Jesus sent His disciples out to spread the Good News.
He also told them if they were turned away, just dust off your dandals
and move on.
Dexter
Jan 25, 2022, 11:35:25 AM1/25/22
to
Mattb wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:07:26 -0500, P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:22:39 -0800, Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 07:26:14 -0500, P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com>
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:07:26 -0500, P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:22:39 -0800, Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> >>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 02:42:30 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Jan 13, 2022, P+Barker wrote
> > > > > (in article<sjf1ugtti3pgr4fl7...@4ax.com>):
> > > > >
> >>>>> , pyotr filipivich<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> >>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 02:42:30 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Jan 13, 2022, P+Barker wrote
> > > > > (in article<sjf1ugtti3pgr4fl7...@4ax.com>):
> > > > >
> >>>>> , pyotr filipivich<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> >>>>> > > A short while back I posted some scripture which warned against
> those who >>>>> > > would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble
> yourself to Angels, etc, >>>>> > > Which
> >>>>> > > also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who
> were brothers >>>>> > > and sisters in Christ.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
> >>>>> > definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
> >>>>> > The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
> >>>>> > manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
> >>>>> > expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
> >>>>> > "prithee" but such is language development.)
> >>>>> > Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
> >>>>> > in the face of the historical reference.
> > > > > >
> those who >>>>> > > would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble
> yourself to Angels, etc, >>>>> > > Which
> >>>>> > > also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who
> were brothers >>>>> > > and sisters in Christ.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
> >>>>> > definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
> >>>>> > The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
> >>>>> > manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
> >>>>> > expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
> >>>>> > "prithee" but such is language development.)
> >>>>> > Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
> >>>>> > in the face of the historical reference.
> > > > > >
> >>>>> Robert forgets that God even made an entire commandment about
> honoring >>>>> parents. This includes Mary, the Mother of Jesus.
> > > > >
> > > > > You forget the authority of his dad is and was far, far greater.
> > > >
> > > > Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment.
> > >
> honoring >>>>> parents. This includes Mary, the Mother of Jesus.
> > > > >
> > > > > You forget the authority of his dad is and was far, far greater.
> > > >
> > > > Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment.
> > >
> >> I thought you claimed the RCC members did not go by the old
> > > testament?
> >
> > Never said that.
> > Catholics believe that the New Testament completes the Old Testament.
>
> > > testament?
> >
> > Never said that.
> > Catholics believe that the New Testament completes the Old Testament.
>
> Then "How much of the Old Testament are we required to live by and
> how do we know?"
-----------------------------
> how do we know?"
You pose a very interesting question. Given the OT is considered by many
to be an integral part of the bible I'd like to pose the question in a
slightly different way. How much of the *bible* are we required to live by
and how do we know? And as a follow up; which bible?
Dexter
Jan 25, 2022, 12:01:23 PM1/25/22
to
You should probably keep your dandles covered up.
pyotr filipivich
Jan 26, 2022, 2:21:43 PM1/26/22
to
Robert <no...@none.com> on Mon, 24 Jan 2022 18:11:11 -0800 typed in
alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>On Jan 22, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote
>(in article<cedpug1ja1jijvhl7...@4ax.com>):
>Yes, I recently meantioned that as well, probably where you got the idea
>from. :)
>But the subject was about Jesus, and how he said we are to pray, in what
>manner.
Yes... and? Oh, must remember, Robert doesn't allow for any other
usage than his own.
Obviously, by Robert's usage, no one is to be asked to intercede
for another person, because by Robert's definition, theonly one who
may be asked is God. Never mind seven hundred plus years of English
usage would indicate otherwise.
>We are to call the elders of the body to pray with us, and or for us, with a
>prayer of Faith believing, not of faith doctrinal teachings.
And here I thought you were only suppose to ask God, and not other
people.
That is the root of your problem: your definition of Prayer is
only that usage in your church. You restrict "Prayer" as something
which can only be directed to God for the individuals needs. Not to
ask God to grant another's petition. Nor to request respectfully for
another person's action or response.
Meh, I need a real hobby.
alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>On Jan 22, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote
>(in article<cedpug1ja1jijvhl7...@4ax.com>):
>from. :)
>But the subject was about Jesus, and how he said we are to pray, in what
>manner.
Yes... and? Oh, must remember, Robert doesn't allow for any other
usage than his own.
Obviously, by Robert's usage, no one is to be asked to intercede
for another person, because by Robert's definition, theonly one who
may be asked is God. Never mind seven hundred plus years of English
usage would indicate otherwise.
>
>>
>> Specifically to ask another person to intercede with the Lord God
>> Almighty on 'my' behalf.
>>
>> Have someone read the book of James to you.
>
>Yes, and you would do well to not only read it, but to understand it as well.
>>
>> Specifically to ask another person to intercede with the Lord God
>> Almighty on 'my' behalf.
>>
>> Have someone read the book of James to you.
>
>We are to call the elders of the body to pray with us, and or for us, with a
>prayer of Faith believing, not of faith doctrinal teachings.
And here I thought you were only suppose to ask God, and not other
people.
That is the root of your problem: your definition of Prayer is
only that usage in your church. You restrict "Prayer" as something
which can only be directed to God for the individuals needs. Not to
ask God to grant another's petition. Nor to request respectfully for
another person's action or response.
Meh, I need a real hobby.
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 27, 2022, 10:11:38 AM1/27/22
to
>On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 03:50:36 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:15:45 -0800, Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com>
etc, etc. ? NO? Then go by them.
>
>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>in righteousness,
>
>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>with breath?
If the conditions are exactly the same as in the pre flood era, we
should support God however He wants to handle it.
>Liar!
>
>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:15:45 -0800, Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:07:26 -0500, P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:22:39 -0800, Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 07:26:14 -0500, P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 02:42:30 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Jan 13, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>>>>>>>(in article<sjf1ugtti3pgr4fl7...@4ax.com>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> , pyotr filipivich<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:07:26 -0500, P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:22:39 -0800, Mattb <trdel...@gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 07:26:14 -0500, P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 02:42:30 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Jan 13, 2022, P+Barker wrote
>>>>>>>(in article<sjf1ugtti3pgr4fl7...@4ax.com>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> , pyotr filipivich<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > > A short while back I posted some scripture which warned against those who
>>>>>>>> > > would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc,
>>>>>>>> > > Which
>>>>>>>> > > also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
>>>>>>>> > > and sisters in Christ.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
>>>>>>>> > definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
>>>>>>>> > The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
>>>>>>>> > manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
>>>>>>>> > expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
>>>>>>>> > "prithee" but such is language development.)
>>>>>>>> > Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
>>>>>>>> > in the face of the historical reference.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > > would seek to teach you to voluntarily humble yourself to Angels, etc,
>>>>>>>> > > Which
>>>>>>>> > > also would include praying to saints, Mary and all others who were brothers
>>>>>>>> > > and sisters in Christ.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Ah, it all becomes clear. Robert has one, and only one,
>>>>>>>> > definition of the word "prayer". For him, it means only worship.
>>>>>>>> > The whole meaning of "to ask" or "to ask in a humble or respectful
>>>>>>>> > manner" are just so foreign to him. Or the existence of the
>>>>>>>> > expression "I pray you / thee ..." (which later got shortened to
>>>>>>>> > "prithee" but such is language development.)
>>>>>>>> > Just add that to his list of innovative interpretations which fly
>>>>>>>> > in the face of the historical reference.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert forgets that God even made an entire commandment about honoring
>>>>>>>> parents. This includes Mary, the Mother of Jesus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You forget the authority of his dad is and was far, far greater.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought you claimed the RCC members did not go by the old
>>>>>testament?
>>>>
>>>>Never said that.
>>>>Catholics believe that the New Testament completes the Old Testament.
>>>
>>> Then "How much of the Old Testament are we required to live by and
>>>how do we know?"
>>
>>>>>>>> parents. This includes Mary, the Mother of Jesus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You forget the authority of his dad is and was far, far greater.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Nobody forgets that. Look at the first commandment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought you claimed the RCC members did not go by the old
>>>>>testament?
>>>>
>>>>Never said that.
>>>>Catholics believe that the New Testament completes the Old Testament.
>>>
>>> Then "How much of the Old Testament are we required to live by and
>>>how do we know?"
>>
>>All of it. But keep in mind if the NT changes something, we have to
>>take that into consideration:
>
>By NT James means the Watchtower committee.
Did the Watchtower 'committee write the NT for the KJV, NIV ,ASV, RSV
>>take that into consideration:
>
>By NT James means the Watchtower committee.
etc, etc. ? NO? Then go by them.
>
>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>in righteousness,
>
>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>with breath?
should support God however He wants to handle it.
>
>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>shadow:
>>
>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>shadow:
>>
>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>
>What a crazy God.
>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
Rather this is 'mythology' that can bite!
>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>
>What a crazy God.
>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>Liar!
Lucifer
Jan 27, 2022, 3:52:40 PM1/27/22
to
>>>(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
>>>teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
>>>in righteousness,
>>
>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>with breath?
>
>If the conditions are exactly the same as in the pre flood era, we
>should support God however He wants to handle it.
since we created God.
>>>Jesus sacrificed himself on our behalf.By doing so he fulfilled the
>>>Mosaic Laws of the OT. Thus we are not beholding to be under their
>>>shadow:
>>>
>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>
>>What a crazy God.
>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>
>Rather this is 'mythology' that can bite!
Your claims make no sense.
You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
You said God does not fail.
That means there are no wicked people now.
Do you believe there is such a thing as "The Truth"?
>Sincerely James
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 27, 2022, 6:44:22 PM1/27/22
to
On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:48:59 +1100, Lucifer
Actually, you would be rewarded with a rent-free room, free food and
medical
>
>>>>For example, under those Mosaic Laws if you worked on the Sabbath
>>>>(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
>>>>or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
>>>>longer valid.
>>>
>>>That has nothing to do with what the bible says.
>>
>>Oh really?
>>
>>(Exodus 35:2) Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will
>>become something holy to you, a Sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah.
>>Anybody doing work on it will be put to death.
>
>I can understand why you find that unacceptable.
Not if I lived back then. God made His existence known to the
Israelites. It was a literal theocracy.
>What else in the bible is unacceptable to you?
Bible personage accusing God of atrocities.
God was judging peoples then. He is not doing that today.
>
>1800 victims and 1000 offenders in Australia alone.
Proof please.
>
>>Yes, how did they ever get to write such meaningless Bible Scriptures.
>
>They wanted to control weak minded people such as yourself.
And what if your closest living relative became a JW. Would you call
that person weak minded also?
>
>>And what is worse, is that Jesus added "love your neighbor as
>>yourself" and even to love your enemies. Can't have either of those.
>
>Hate the tribes on the other side of the river.
Present day followers of Christ don't live in tribes.
>
>>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Absolutely positively true.
>>>>>
>>>>>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
>>>>
>>>>If God wanted you to suffer, you would placed in boiling oil or
>>>>something.
>>>
>>>If God wanted us to suffer he would have created us in such a
>>>way that we could suffer then placed us in a world where we would
>>>suffer.
>>
>>And we owe it all to Adam.
>
>You know that's not true. I've cautioned you about this before.
I believe the Bible over you:
(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into
the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men
because they had all sinned—.
>
>>>>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>>>>
>>>>>You need to be careful how you write things.
>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>
>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>opinion.
>>>
>>>What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
>>
>>I never said it was.
>
>I wrote;
>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>You responded;
>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>opinion.
Thanks for answering
But God never created Adam to rebel. He probably did that because of
Eve.
>
>>It is Bible fact. Archeologists have inspected
>>the area of that tower, and found other such building projects.
>
>Genesis 11:1
>"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech."
>
>Can't allow that!
They broke God's directive about spreading out over the earth.
>
>>>>>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>>>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>>>>
>>>>>No comment?
>>>>
>>>>Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
>>>>serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
>>>>out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of his
>>>>house, he would be robbed.
>>
>>>Do any of those things happen?
>>
>>All the time.
>
>Those things would only happen if God wanted everyone wicked.
>
>>>>No, God does not like wickedness.
>>>
>>>Why did God create so many things he doesn't like?
>>
>>Again, after creating, He said 'it was very good'.
>
>God thinks everything is good.
It was, before humans came on the scene'
>
>>>>That's (why) there was the great flood in Genesis.
>>>
>>>That's why there are no wicked people today.
>>
>>Yes, the world's prisons are full of 'good' people today.
>
>God does not fail.
Whenever God sends out His word, it won't come back to Him until it
has fulfilled its Bible truths.
Read the article above. It fully answers your question. Notice in the
article what was going to happen in 1914. And it is not the end of the
world.
medical
>
>>>>For example, under those Mosaic Laws if you worked on the Sabbath
>>>>(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
>>>>or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
>>>>longer valid.
>>>
>>>That has nothing to do with what the bible says.
>>
>>Oh really?
>>
>>(Exodus 35:2) Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will
>>become something holy to you, a Sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah.
>>Anybody doing work on it will be put to death.
>
>I can understand why you find that unacceptable.
Israelites. It was a literal theocracy.
>What else in the bible is unacceptable to you?
>
>1800 victims and 1000 offenders in Australia alone.
>
>>Yes, how did they ever get to write such meaningless Bible Scriptures.
>
>They wanted to control weak minded people such as yourself.
that person weak minded also?
>
>>And what is worse, is that Jesus added "love your neighbor as
>>yourself" and even to love your enemies. Can't have either of those.
>
>Hate the tribes on the other side of the river.
>
>>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Absolutely positively true.
>>>>>
>>>>>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
>>>>
>>>>If God wanted you to suffer, you would placed in boiling oil or
>>>>something.
>>>
>>>If God wanted us to suffer he would have created us in such a
>>>way that we could suffer then placed us in a world where we would
>>>suffer.
>>
>>And we owe it all to Adam.
>
>You know that's not true. I've cautioned you about this before.
(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into
the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men
because they had all sinned—.
>
>>>>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>>>>
>>>>>You need to be careful how you write things.
>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>
>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>opinion.
>>>
>>>What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
>>
>>I never said it was.
>
>I wrote;
>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>You responded;
>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>opinion.
But God never created Adam to rebel. He probably did that because of
Eve.
>
>>It is Bible fact. Archeologists have inspected
>>the area of that tower, and found other such building projects.
>
>Genesis 11:1
>"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech."
>
>Can't allow that!
>
>>>>>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>>>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>>>>
>>>>>No comment?
>>>>
>>>>Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
>>>>serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
>>>>out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of his
>>>>house, he would be robbed.
>>
>>>Do any of those things happen?
>>
>>All the time.
>
>Those things would only happen if God wanted everyone wicked.
>
>>>>No, God does not like wickedness.
>>>
>>>Why did God create so many things he doesn't like?
>>
>>Again, after creating, He said 'it was very good'.
>
>God thinks everything is good.
>
>>>>That's (why) there was the great flood in Genesis.
>>>
>>>That's why there are no wicked people today.
>>
>>Yes, the world's prisons are full of 'good' people today.
>
>God does not fail.
has fulfilled its Bible truths.
article what was going to happen in 1914. And it is not the end of the
world.
Lucifer
Jan 27, 2022, 8:45:13 PM1/27/22
to
Why doesn't God simply change the things He got wrong?
>>>>>For example, under those Mosaic Laws if you worked on the Sabbath
>>>>>(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
>>>>>or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
>>>>>longer valid.
>>>>
>>>>That has nothing to do with what the bible says.
>>>
>>>Oh really?
>>>
>>>(Exodus 35:2) Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will
>>>become something holy to you, a Sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah.
>>>Anybody doing work on it will be put to death.
>>
>>I can understand why you find that unacceptable.
>
>Not if I lived back then. God made His existence known to the
>Israelites. It was a literal theocracy.
>>What else in the bible is unacceptable to you?
>
>Bible personage accusing God of atrocities.
Why doesn't God simply change the things He got wrong?
>>1800 victims and 1000 offenders in Australia alone.
>
>Proof please.
>>>Yes, how did they ever get to write such meaningless Bible Scriptures.
>>
>>They wanted to control weak minded people such as yourself.
>
>And what if your closest living relative became a JW. Would you call
>that person weak minded also?
>>>And what is worse, is that Jesus added "love your neighbor as
>>>yourself" and even to love your enemies. Can't have either of those.
>>
>>Hate the tribes on the other side of the river.
>
>Present day followers of Christ don't live in tribes.
>>>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>>>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>>>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Absolutely positively true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
>>>>>
>>>>>If God wanted you to suffer, you would placed in boiling oil or
>>>>>something.
>>>>
>>>>If God wanted us to suffer he would have created us in such a
>>>>way that we could suffer then placed us in a world where we would
>>>>suffer.
>>>
>>>And we owe it all to Adam.
>>
>>You know that's not true. I've cautioned you about this before.
>
>I believe the Bible over you:
>(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into
>the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men
>because they had all sinned—.
[1:27] So God created humankind in his image, in the image of
God he created them; male and female he created them.
Colossians 1:16
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
>>>>>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>>>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You need to be careful how you write things.
>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>>
>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>opinion.
>>>>
>>>>What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
>>>
>>>I never said it was.
>>
>>I wrote;
>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>You responded;
>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>opinion.
>
>Thanks for answering
>
>But God never created Adam to rebel. He probably did that because of
>Eve.
>>>It is Bible fact. Archeologists have inspected
>>>the area of that tower, and found other such building projects.
>>
>>Genesis 11:1
>>"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech."
>>
>>Can't allow that!
>
>They broke God's directive about spreading out over the earth.
>>>>>>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>>>>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No comment?
>>>>>
>>>>>Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
>>>>>serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
>>>>>out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of his
>>>>>house, he would be robbed.
>>>
>>>>Do any of those things happen?
>>>
>>>All the time.
>>
>>Those things would only happen if God wanted everyone wicked.
>>
>>>>>No, God does not like wickedness.
>>>>
>>>>Why did God create so many things he doesn't like?
>>>
>>>Again, after creating, He said 'it was very good'.
>>
>>God thinks everything is good.
>
>It was, before humans came on the scene'
Why does God not correct His errors?
>>>>>That's (why) there was the great flood in Genesis.
>>>>
>>>>That's why there are no wicked people today.
>>>
>>>Yes, the world's prisons are full of 'good' people today.
>>
>>God does not fail.
>
>Whenever God sends out His word, it won't come back to Him until it
>has fulfilled its Bible truths.
see the end of the world.
Why did God change His mind on vaccines?
>Sincerely James
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 28, 2022, 9:14:34 AM1/28/22
to
On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 07:52:33 +1100, Lucifer
That is strange. Millions agree with me. But you don't. So who should
I listen to?
>
>You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
>You said God does not fail.
>That means there are no wicked people now.
You do know that time always moves on, right? God cleansed the earth
once, and He will do it again:
(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>Do you believe there is such a thing as "The Truth"?
Everything seems to have an opposite of some kind. Night and day, salt
and pepper, cats and dogs, black and white, etc. So we have LIES AND
TRUTH.
Yes truths exist.
I listen to?
>
>You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
>You said God does not fail.
>That means there are no wicked people now.
once, and He will do it again:
(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>Do you believe there is such a thing as "The Truth"?
and pepper, cats and dogs, black and white, etc. So we have LIES AND
TRUTH.
Yes truths exist.
Lucifer
Jan 28, 2022, 4:48:24 PM1/28/22
to
On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:13:24 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 07:52:33 +1100, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>
>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>
>>>Rather this is 'mythology' that can bite!
>>
>>Reality is what bites.
>>Your claims make no sense.
>
>That is strange. Millions agree with me. But you don't. So who should
>I listen to?
Reality is not a democracy.
>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 07:52:33 +1100, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>
>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>
>>>Rather this is 'mythology' that can bite!
>>
>>Reality is what bites.
>>Your claims make no sense.
>
>That is strange. Millions agree with me. But you don't. So who should
>I listen to?
>>You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
>>You said God does not fail.
>>That means there are no wicked people now.
>
>You do know that time always moves on, right? God cleansed the earth
>once, and He will do it again:
>
>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
"God does not fail."
The first genocide was to clear the earth of wicked people.
"God does not fail."
>>Do you believe there is such a thing as "The Truth"?
>
>Everything seems to have an opposite of some kind. Night and day, salt
>and pepper, cats and dogs, black and white, etc. So we have LIES AND
>TRUTH.
>
>Yes truths exist.
I'm asking if you believe there is something called "The Truth."
>Sincerely James
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 30, 2022, 6:50:59 AM1/30/22
to
On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 08:48:18 +1100, Lucifer
<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:13:24 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 07:52:33 +1100, Lucifer
>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>
>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>
>>>>Rather this is 'mythology' that can bite!
>>>
>>>Reality is what bites.
>>>Your claims make no sense.
>>
>>That is strange. Millions agree with me. But you don't. So who should
>>I listen to?
>
>Reality is not a democracy.
I never said it was. Reality lives outside of politics.
<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:13:24 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 07:52:33 +1100, Lucifer
>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>
>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>
>>>>Rather this is 'mythology' that can bite!
>>>
>>>Reality is what bites.
>>>Your claims make no sense.
>>
>>That is strange. Millions agree with me. But you don't. So who should
>>I listen to?
>
>Reality is not a democracy.
>
>>>You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
>>>You said God does not fail.
>>>That means there are no wicked people now.
>>
>>You do know that time always moves on, right? God cleansed the earth
>>once, and He will do it again:
>>
>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>
>You wrote,
>"God does not fail."
>The first genocide was to clear the earth of wicked people.
>"God does not fail."
>
>>>Do you believe there is such a thing as "The Truth"?
>>
>>Everything seems to have an opposite of some kind. Night and day, salt
>>and pepper, cats and dogs, black and white, etc. So we have LIES AND
>>TRUTH.
>>
>>Yes truths exist.
>
>As Servant says, you answer questions that are not asked.
>I'm asking if you believe there is something called "The Truth."
course, just because I believe something, doesn't change the reality
of the thing. It is what it is.
Lucifer
Jan 30, 2022, 10:28:35 PM1/30/22
to
On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 06:50:51 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 08:48:18 +1100, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:13:24 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 07:52:33 +1100, Lucifer
>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>>
>>>>>Rather this is 'mythology' that can bite!
>>>>
>>>>Reality is what bites.
>>>>Your claims make no sense.
>>>
>>>That is strange. Millions agree with me. But you don't. So who should
>>>I listen to?
>>
>>Reality is not a democracy.
>
>I never said it was. Reality lives outside of politics.
Not for you.
>On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 08:48:18 +1100, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:13:24 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 07:52:33 +1100, Lucifer
>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>>
>>>>>Rather this is 'mythology' that can bite!
>>>>
>>>>Reality is what bites.
>>>>Your claims make no sense.
>>>
>>>That is strange. Millions agree with me. But you don't. So who should
>>>I listen to?
>>
>>Reality is not a democracy.
>
>I never said it was. Reality lives outside of politics.
>>>>You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
>>>>You said God does not fail.
>>>>That means there are no wicked people now.
>>>
>>>You do know that time always moves on, right? God cleansed the earth
>>>once, and He will do it again:
>>>
>>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>>
>>You wrote,
>>"God does not fail."
>>The first genocide was to clear the earth of wicked people.
>>"God does not fail."
>
>Didn't He do what He said? He didn't fail.
>>>>Do you believe there is such a thing as "The Truth"?
>>>
>>>Everything seems to have an opposite of some kind. Night and day, salt
>>>and pepper, cats and dogs, black and white, etc. So we have LIES AND
>>>TRUTH.
>>>
>>>Yes truths exist.
>>
>>As Servant says, you answer questions that are not asked.
>>I'm asking if you believe there is something called "The Truth."
>
>And I showed you there was.
>You ask if I BELIEVED it. Yes I do. But of
>course, just because I believe something, doesn't change the reality
>of the thing. It is what it is.
>Sincerely James
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 31, 2022, 5:07:44 PM1/31/22
to
On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 12:45:07 +1100, Lucifer
If you want to criticize God, you can do so for giving all of us free
will. He could have made us all perfect, non-sinning robots. Is that
what you wanted? Would that make you happier?
>
>>>>>>For example, under those Mosaic Laws if you worked on the Sabbath
>>>>>>(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
>>>>>>or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
>>>>>>longer valid.
>>>>>
>>>>>That has nothing to do with what the bible says.
>>>>
>>>>Oh really?
>>>>
>>>>(Exodus 35:2) Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will
>>>>become something holy to you, a Sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah.
>>>>Anybody doing work on it will be put to death.
>>>
>>>I can understand why you find that unacceptable.
>>
>>Not if I lived back then. God made His existence known to the
>>Israelites. It was a literal theocracy.
>
>I hope you find much of the bible unacceptable.
Yes, things like "love your neighbor as yourself" and "do unto others
what you want them to do to you" are unacceptable. We can't have such
things, can we. (Mt 19:19; 7:12)
>
>>>What else in the bible is unacceptable to you?
>>
>>Bible personage accusing God of atrocities.
>
>Why would that be unacceptable to you?
I don't like accepting lies.
All lies (or ignorant chatter) are unacceptable to me.
Because God has a sense of righteousness way above us.
>Why doesn't God simply change the things He got wrong?
Since He did no wrong, He doesn't have to change anything HE did. But
He will change the mess that humans have make of things.
You use a JW hate web page as your proof? That is like a fox in a hen
house. You can do better than that.
>
>>>>Yes, how did they ever get to write such meaningless Bible Scriptures.
>>>
>>>They wanted to control weak minded people such as yourself.
>>
>>And what if your closest living relative became a JW. Would you call
>>that person weak minded also?
>
>The only good JW is an ex-JW.
You didn't answer my question. What if a relative became a JW?
Yes, ex JW's can now take blood transfusions, join a false religion,
get a divorce at the drop of a hat, beat his wife (discretely though),
join the military and get his brains blown out. Pray to Jesus instead
of to God through Jesus. He can now cheat on his income tax, and lie
about anything he wishes. And lots more. I guess that is one way to
self destruct.
>
>>>>And what is worse, is that Jesus added "love your neighbor as
>>>>yourself" and even to love your enemies. Can't have either of those.
>>>
>>>Hate the tribes on the other side of the river.
>>
>>Present day followers of Christ don't live in tribes.
>
>People were living tribes when God was created.
You mean "god".
>
>>>>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>>>>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>>>>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Absolutely positively true.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If God wanted you to suffer, you would placed in boiling oil or
>>>>>>something.
>>>>>
>>>>>If God wanted us to suffer he would have created us in such a
>>>>>way that we could suffer then placed us in a world where we would
>>>>>suffer.
>>>>
>>>>And we owe it all to Adam.
>>>
>>>You know that's not true. I've cautioned you about this before.
>>
>>I believe the Bible over you:
>
>Why?
Because it tells the truth. (John 17:17)
>
>>(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into
>>the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men
>>because they had all sinned—.
>
>You need the context.
>
>[1:27] So God created humankind in his image, in the image of
>God he created them; male and female he created them.
>
>Colossians 1:16
>For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
>visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
>authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
Yes, God created all things THROUGH Jesus and for Jesus. But God
always did the creating. (Gen 1:1)
>
>>>>>>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>>>>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You need to be careful how you write things.
>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>>What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
>>>>
>>>>I never said it was.
>>>
>>>I wrote;
>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>You responded;
>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>opinion.
>>
>>Thanks for answering
>>
>>But God never created Adam to rebel. He probably did that because of
>>Eve.
>
>You must be wrong about Adam rebelling.
Since the Bible is the only reliable source telling about Adam, we
have what it tells us.
>
>>>>It is Bible fact. Archeologists have inspected
>>>>the area of that tower, and found other such building projects.
>>>
>>>Genesis 11:1
>>>"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech."
>>>
>>>Can't allow that!
>>
>>They broke God's directive about spreading out over the earth.
>
>They were happy.
If disobeying God brought them happiness, they were totally mislead.
>
>>>>>>>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>>>>>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No comment?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
>>>>>>serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
>>>>>>out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of his
>>>>>>house, he would be robbed.
>>>>
>>>>>Do any of those things happen?
>>>>
>>>>All the time.
>>>
>>>Those things would only happen if God wanted everyone wicked.
>>>
>>>>>>No, God does not like wickedness.
>>>>>
>>>>>Why did God create so many things he doesn't like?
>>>>
>>>>Again, after creating, He said 'it was very good'.
>>>
>>>God thinks everything is good.
>>
>>It was, before humans came on the scene'
>
>Why did God create humans that way.
He gave them a free will, instead of making them robots. Would you
have rather been born as a robot? Most people would say no. Free will
is a GIFT from God, esp when it is used properly.
>Why does God not correct His errors?
God will correct OUR errors soon. As well as take complete control
over nature. No more hurricanes, severe earthquakes, tornadoes,
floods, killer lightening, super freezes, droughts, sink holes,zsdf
etc.
>
>>>>>>That's (why) there was the great flood in Genesis.
>>>>>
>>>>>That's why there are no wicked people today.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, the world's prisons are full of 'good' people today.
>>>
>>>God does not fail.
>>
>>Whenever God sends out His word, it won't come back to Him until it
>>has fulfilled its Bible truths.
>
>God does not fail so there are no wicked people today.
When you eat out and get a pizza, do people assume you will always eat
out with a pizza? So just because God wiped out all wicked one time,
doesn't mean He will continually from then on, remove them. But he
will someday do so again.
Do you like the wicked? As it stands today, a crook could break into
your house when you are sleeping, and fill you full of lead, making
you dead.
Proof please.
>
>Why did God change His mind on vaccines?
God doesn't usually change His ways. So what do you mean?
will. He could have made us all perfect, non-sinning robots. Is that
what you wanted? Would that make you happier?
>
>>>>>>For example, under those Mosaic Laws if you worked on the Sabbath
>>>>>>(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
>>>>>>or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
>>>>>>longer valid.
>>>>>
>>>>>That has nothing to do with what the bible says.
>>>>
>>>>Oh really?
>>>>
>>>>(Exodus 35:2) Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will
>>>>become something holy to you, a Sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah.
>>>>Anybody doing work on it will be put to death.
>>>
>>>I can understand why you find that unacceptable.
>>
>>Not if I lived back then. God made His existence known to the
>>Israelites. It was a literal theocracy.
>
>I hope you find much of the bible unacceptable.
what you want them to do to you" are unacceptable. We can't have such
things, can we. (Mt 19:19; 7:12)
>
>>>What else in the bible is unacceptable to you?
>>
>>Bible personage accusing God of atrocities.
>
>Why would that be unacceptable to you?
All lies (or ignorant chatter) are unacceptable to me.
>Why doesn't God simply change the things He got wrong?
He will change the mess that humans have make of things.
You use a JW hate web page as your proof? That is like a fox in a hen
house. You can do better than that.
>
>>>>Yes, how did they ever get to write such meaningless Bible Scriptures.
>>>
>>>They wanted to control weak minded people such as yourself.
>>
>>And what if your closest living relative became a JW. Would you call
>>that person weak minded also?
>
>The only good JW is an ex-JW.
Yes, ex JW's can now take blood transfusions, join a false religion,
get a divorce at the drop of a hat, beat his wife (discretely though),
join the military and get his brains blown out. Pray to Jesus instead
of to God through Jesus. He can now cheat on his income tax, and lie
about anything he wishes. And lots more. I guess that is one way to
self destruct.
>
>>>>And what is worse, is that Jesus added "love your neighbor as
>>>>yourself" and even to love your enemies. Can't have either of those.
>>>
>>>Hate the tribes on the other side of the river.
>>
>>Present day followers of Christ don't live in tribes.
>
>People were living tribes when God was created.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>>>>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>>>>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Absolutely positively true.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If God wanted you to suffer, you would placed in boiling oil or
>>>>>>something.
>>>>>
>>>>>If God wanted us to suffer he would have created us in such a
>>>>>way that we could suffer then placed us in a world where we would
>>>>>suffer.
>>>>
>>>>And we owe it all to Adam.
>>>
>>>You know that's not true. I've cautioned you about this before.
>>
>>I believe the Bible over you:
>
>Why?
>
>>(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into
>>the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men
>>because they had all sinned—.
>
>You need the context.
>
>[1:27] So God created humankind in his image, in the image of
>God he created them; male and female he created them.
>
>Colossians 1:16
>For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
>visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
>authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
always did the creating. (Gen 1:1)
>
>>>>>>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>>>>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You need to be careful how you write things.
>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>>What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
>>>>
>>>>I never said it was.
>>>
>>>I wrote;
>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>You responded;
>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>opinion.
>>
>>Thanks for answering
>>
>>But God never created Adam to rebel. He probably did that because of
>>Eve.
>
>You must be wrong about Adam rebelling.
have what it tells us.
>
>>>>It is Bible fact. Archeologists have inspected
>>>>the area of that tower, and found other such building projects.
>>>
>>>Genesis 11:1
>>>"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech."
>>>
>>>Can't allow that!
>>
>>They broke God's directive about spreading out over the earth.
>
>They were happy.
>
>>>>>>>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>>>>>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No comment?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
>>>>>>serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
>>>>>>out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of his
>>>>>>house, he would be robbed.
>>>>
>>>>>Do any of those things happen?
>>>>
>>>>All the time.
>>>
>>>Those things would only happen if God wanted everyone wicked.
>>>
>>>>>>No, God does not like wickedness.
>>>>>
>>>>>Why did God create so many things he doesn't like?
>>>>
>>>>Again, after creating, He said 'it was very good'.
>>>
>>>God thinks everything is good.
>>
>>It was, before humans came on the scene'
>
>Why did God create humans that way.
have rather been born as a robot? Most people would say no. Free will
is a GIFT from God, esp when it is used properly.
>Why does God not correct His errors?
over nature. No more hurricanes, severe earthquakes, tornadoes,
floods, killer lightening, super freezes, droughts, sink holes,zsdf
etc.
>
>>>>>>That's (why) there was the great flood in Genesis.
>>>>>
>>>>>That's why there are no wicked people today.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, the world's prisons are full of 'good' people today.
>>>
>>>God does not fail.
>>
>>Whenever God sends out His word, it won't come back to Him until it
>>has fulfilled its Bible truths.
>
>God does not fail so there are no wicked people today.
out with a pizza? So just because God wiped out all wicked one time,
doesn't mean He will continually from then on, remove them. But he
will someday do so again.
Do you like the wicked? As it stands today, a crook could break into
your house when you are sleeping, and fill you full of lead, making
you dead.
>
>Why did God change His mind on vaccines?
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 31, 2022, 5:15:33 PM1/31/22
to
On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 14:28:30 +1100, Lucifer
>
>>>>>You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
>>>>>You said God does not fail.
>>>>>That means there are no wicked people now.
>>>>
>>>>You do know that time always moves on, right? God cleansed the earth
>>>>once, and He will do it again:
>>>>
>>>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>>>
>>>You wrote,
>>>"God does not fail."
>>>The first genocide was to clear the earth of wicked people.
>>>"God does not fail."
>>
>>Didn't He do what He said? He didn't fail.
>
>So there are no wicked people now.
That was a one time event. Later God will remove them again, for good.
>
>>>>>Do you believe there is such a thing as "The Truth"?
>>>>
>>>>Everything seems to have an opposite of some kind. Night and day, salt
>>>>and pepper, cats and dogs, black and white, etc. So we have LIES AND
>>>>TRUTH.
>>>>
>>>>Yes truths exist.
>>>
>>>As Servant says, you answer questions that are not asked.
>>>I'm asking if you believe there is something called "The Truth."
>>
>>And I showed you there was.
>
>What is "The Truth?"
>
>>You ask if I BELIEVED it. Yes I do. But of
>>course, just because I believe something, doesn't change the reality
>>of the thing. It is what it is.
>
>How does "The Truth" differ from the truth?
2 capital T,s.
<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 06:50:51 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 08:48:18 +1100, Lucifer
>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:13:24 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 07:52:33 +1100, Lucifer
>>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Rather this is 'mythology' that can bite!
>>>>>
>>>>>Reality is what bites.
>>>>>Your claims make no sense.
>>>>
>>>>That is strange. Millions agree with me. But you don't. So who should
>>>>I listen to?
>>>
>>>Reality is not a democracy.
>>
>>I never said it was. Reality lives outside of politics.
>
>Not for you.
Why not?
>On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 06:50:51 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 08:48:18 +1100, Lucifer
>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:13:24 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 07:52:33 +1100, Lucifer
>>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Rather this is 'mythology' that can bite!
>>>>>
>>>>>Reality is what bites.
>>>>>Your claims make no sense.
>>>>
>>>>That is strange. Millions agree with me. But you don't. So who should
>>>>I listen to?
>>>
>>>Reality is not a democracy.
>>
>>I never said it was. Reality lives outside of politics.
>
>Not for you.
>
>>>>>You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
>>>>>You said God does not fail.
>>>>>That means there are no wicked people now.
>>>>
>>>>You do know that time always moves on, right? God cleansed the earth
>>>>once, and He will do it again:
>>>>
>>>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>>>
>>>You wrote,
>>>"God does not fail."
>>>The first genocide was to clear the earth of wicked people.
>>>"God does not fail."
>>
>>Didn't He do what He said? He didn't fail.
>
>So there are no wicked people now.
>
>>>>>Do you believe there is such a thing as "The Truth"?
>>>>
>>>>Everything seems to have an opposite of some kind. Night and day, salt
>>>>and pepper, cats and dogs, black and white, etc. So we have LIES AND
>>>>TRUTH.
>>>>
>>>>Yes truths exist.
>>>
>>>As Servant says, you answer questions that are not asked.
>>>I'm asking if you believe there is something called "The Truth."
>>
>>And I showed you there was.
>
>What is "The Truth?"
>
>>You ask if I BELIEVED it. Yes I do. But of
>>course, just because I believe something, doesn't change the reality
>>of the thing. It is what it is.
>
>How does "The Truth" differ from the truth?
Lucifer
Jan 31, 2022, 8:17:48 PM1/31/22
to
allow us to choose from a wide range of good things.
Either way God has no right to judge us on how he made us.
>>>>>>>For example, under those Mosaic Laws if you worked on the Sabbath
>>>>>>>(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
>>>>>>>or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
>>>>>>>longer valid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That has nothing to do with what the bible says.
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh really?
>>>>>
>>>>>(Exodus 35:2) Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will
>>>>>become something holy to you, a Sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah.
>>>>>Anybody doing work on it will be put to death.
>>>>
>>>>I can understand why you find that unacceptable.
>>>
>>>Not if I lived back then. God made His existence known to the
>>>Israelites. It was a literal theocracy.
>>
>>I hope you find much of the bible unacceptable.
>
>Yes, things like "love your neighbor as yourself" and "do unto others
>what you want them to do to you" are unacceptable. We can't have such
>things, can we. (Mt 19:19; 7:12)
created.
>>>>What else in the bible is unacceptable to you?
>>>
>>>Bible personage accusing God of atrocities.
>>
>>Why would that be unacceptable to you?
>
>I don't like accepting lies.
>
>All lies (or ignorant chatter) are unacceptable to me.
How is it righteousness that God created a world where life feeds
off life and only the strongest survive?
>>Why doesn't God simply change the things He got wrong?
>
>Since He did no wrong, He doesn't have to change anything HE did.
>But He will change the mess that humans have make of things.
>>>>1800 victims and 1000 offenders in Australia alone.
>>>
>>>Proof please.
>>
>>www.jwwatch.org
>
>You use a JW hate web page as your proof? That is like a fox in a hen
>house. You can do better than that.
JWs own records.
>>>>>Yes, how did they ever get to write such meaningless Bible Scriptures.
>>>>
>>>>They wanted to control weak minded people such as yourself.
>>>
>>>And what if your closest living relative became a JW. Would you call
>>>that person weak minded also?
>>
>>The only good JW is an ex-JW.
>
>You didn't answer my question. What if a relative became a JW?
I made it clear I respect him as a person but I have no respect
for his beliefs.
>Yes, ex JW's can now take blood transfusions, join a false religion,
>get a divorce at the drop of a hat, beat his wife (discretely though),
>join the military and get his brains blown out. Pray to Jesus instead
>of to God through Jesus. He can now cheat on his income tax, and lie
>about anything he wishes. And lots more. I guess that is one way to
>self destruct.
because of abuse.
>>>>>And what is worse, is that Jesus added "love your neighbor as
>>>>>yourself" and even to love your enemies. Can't have either of those.
>>>>
>>>>Hate the tribes on the other side of the river.
>>>
>>>Present day followers of Christ don't live in tribes.
>>
>>People were living tribes when God was created.
>
>You mean "god".
>>>>>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>>>>>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>>>>>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Absolutely positively true.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If God wanted you to suffer, you would placed in boiling oil or
>>>>>>>something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If God wanted us to suffer he would have created us in such a
>>>>>>way that we could suffer then placed us in a world where we would
>>>>>>suffer.
>>>>>
>>>>>And we owe it all to Adam.
>>>>
>>>>You know that's not true. I've cautioned you about this before.
>>>
>>>I believe the Bible over you:
>>
>>Why?
>
>Because it tells the truth. (John 17:17)
The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend.
>>>(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into
>>>the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men
>>>because they had all sinned—.
>>
>>You need the context.
>>
>>[1:27] So God created humankind in his image, in the image of
>>God he created them; male and female he created them.
>>
>>Colossians 1:16
>>For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
>>visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
>>authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
>
>Yes, God created all things THROUGH Jesus and for Jesus. But God
>always did the creating. (Gen 1:1)
Thus God is responsible for all our problems.
>>>the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men
>>>because they had all sinned—.
>>
>>You need the context.
>>
>>[1:27] So God created humankind in his image, in the image of
>>God he created them; male and female he created them.
>>
>>Colossians 1:16
>>For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
>>visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
>>authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
>
>Yes, God created all things THROUGH Jesus and for Jesus. But God
>always did the creating. (Gen 1:1)
It is absurd to blame a created being for the actions of the creator.
>>>>>>>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>>>>>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You need to be careful how you write things.
>>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>>opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
>>>>>
>>>>>I never said it was.
>>>>
>>>>I wrote;
>>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>You responded;
>>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>>opinion.
>>>
>>>Thanks for answering
>>>
>>>But God never created Adam to rebel. He probably did that because of
>>>Eve.
>>
>>You must be wrong about Adam rebelling.
>
>Since the Bible is the only reliable source telling about Adam, we
>have what it tells us.
>>>>>It is Bible fact. Archeologists have inspected
>>>>>the area of that tower, and found other such building projects.
>>>>
>>>>Genesis 11:1
>>>>"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech."
>>>>
>>>>Can't allow that!
>>>
>>>They broke God's directive about spreading out over the earth.
>>
>>They were happy.
>
>If disobeying God brought them happiness, they were totally mislead.
>>>>>>>>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>>>>>>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No comment?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
>>>>>>>serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
>>>>>>>out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of his
>>>>>>>house, he would be robbed.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Do any of those things happen?
>>>>>
>>>>>All the time.
>>>>
>>>>Those things would only happen if God wanted everyone wicked.
>>>>
>>>>>>>No, God does not like wickedness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why did God create so many things he doesn't like?
>>>>>
>>>>>Again, after creating, He said 'it was very good'.
>>>>
>>>>God thinks everything is good.
>>>
>>>It was, before humans came on the scene'
>>
>>Why did God create humans that way.
>
>He gave them a free will, instead of making them robots. Would you
>have rather been born as a robot? Most people would say no. Free will
>is a GIFT from God, esp when it is used properly.
use "properly?"
>>Why does God not correct His errors?
>
>God will correct OUR errors soon. As well as take complete control
>over nature. No more hurricanes, severe earthquakes, tornadoes,
>floods, killer lightening, super freezes, droughts, sink holes,zsdf
>etc.
>>>>>>>That's (why) there was the great flood in Genesis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That's why there are no wicked people today.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, the world's prisons are full of 'good' people today.
>>>>
>>>>God does not fail.
>>>
>>>Whenever God sends out His word, it won't come back to Him until it
>>>has fulfilled its Bible truths.
>>
>>God does not fail so there are no wicked people today.
>
>When you eat out and get a pizza, do people assume you will always eat
>out with a pizza? So just because God wiped out all wicked one time,
>doesn't mean He will continually from then on, remove them. But he
>will someday do so again.
(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>Do you like the wicked? As it stands today, a crook could break into
>your house when you are sleeping, and fill you full of lead, making
>you dead.
You wrote,
>your house when you are sleeping, and fill you full of lead, making
>you dead.
"Everything God does is good."
have decided to change their policy to recommending
vaccinations.
>Sincerely James
Lucifer
Jan 31, 2022, 9:26:52 PM1/31/22
to
On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:15:29 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 14:28:30 +1100, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 06:50:51 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 08:48:18 +1100, Lucifer
>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:13:24 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 07:52:33 +1100, Lucifer
>>>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rather this is 'mythology' that can bite!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Reality is what bites.
>>>>>>Your claims make no sense.
>>>>>
>>>>>That is strange. Millions agree with me. But you don't. So who should
>>>>>I listen to?
>>>>
>>>>Reality is not a democracy.
>>>
>>>I never said it was. Reality lives outside of politics.
>>
>>Not for you.
>
>Why not?
You copy the politics of the WT.
>On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 14:28:30 +1100, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 06:50:51 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 29 Jan 2022 08:48:18 +1100, Lucifer
>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:13:24 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 07:52:33 +1100, Lucifer
>>>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>(Hebrews 10:10) By this “will” we have been sanctified through the
>>>>>>>>>offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What a crazy God.
>>>>>>>>Jesus should have stood up to God.
>>>>>>>>I am so glad you are talking about mythology.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rather this is 'mythology' that can bite!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Reality is what bites.
>>>>>>Your claims make no sense.
>>>>>
>>>>>That is strange. Millions agree with me. But you don't. So who should
>>>>>I listen to?
>>>>
>>>>Reality is not a democracy.
>>>
>>>I never said it was. Reality lives outside of politics.
>>
>>Not for you.
>
>Why not?
>>>>>>You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
>>>>>>You said God does not fail.
>>>>>>That means there are no wicked people now.
>>>>>
>>>>>You do know that time always moves on, right? God cleansed the earth
>>>>>once, and He will do it again:
>>>>>
>>>>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>>>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>>>>
>>>>You wrote,
>>>>"God does not fail."
>>>>The first genocide was to clear the earth of wicked people.
>>>>"God does not fail."
>>>
>>>Didn't He do what He said? He didn't fail.
>>
>>So there are no wicked people now.
>
>That was a one time event. Later God will remove them again, for good.
(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
You wrote,
"God does not fail."
zeb...@windstream.net
Feb 1, 2022, 3:56:08 PM2/1/22
to
On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 13:26:48 +1100, Lucifer
Well let's see. Define politics:
"noun
noun: politics
the activities associated with the governance of a country or
other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or
parties having or hoping to achieve power."
Sorry Charlie, but there is little conflict or debate within the JW
organization. That is how the true religion functions:
(1 Corinthians 1:10) Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our
Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that
there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely
united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.
-drum roll--THAT IS THE JW's.
>
>>>>>>>You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
>>>>>>>You said God does not fail.
>>>>>>>That means there are no wicked people now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You do know that time always moves on, right? God cleansed the earth
>>>>>>once, and He will do it again:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>>>>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>>>>>
>>>>>You wrote,
>>>>>"God does not fail."
>>>>>The first genocide was to clear the earth of wicked people.
>>>>>"God does not fail."
>>>>
>>>>Didn't He do what He said? He didn't fail.
>>>
>>>So there are no wicked people now.
>>
>>That was a one time event. Later God will remove them again, for good.
>
>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>
>You wrote,
>"God does not fail."
That is correct. God wanted to destroy all the wicked back then. And
He didn't fail in doing that.
"noun
noun: politics
the activities associated with the governance of a country or
other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or
parties having or hoping to achieve power."
Sorry Charlie, but there is little conflict or debate within the JW
organization. That is how the true religion functions:
(1 Corinthians 1:10) Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our
Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that
there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely
united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.
-drum roll--THAT IS THE JW's.
>
>>>>>>>You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
>>>>>>>You said God does not fail.
>>>>>>>That means there are no wicked people now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You do know that time always moves on, right? God cleansed the earth
>>>>>>once, and He will do it again:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>>>>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>>>>>
>>>>>You wrote,
>>>>>"God does not fail."
>>>>>The first genocide was to clear the earth of wicked people.
>>>>>"God does not fail."
>>>>
>>>>Didn't He do what He said? He didn't fail.
>>>
>>>So there are no wicked people now.
>>
>>That was a one time event. Later God will remove them again, for good.
>
>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>
>You wrote,
>"God does not fail."
He didn't fail in doing that.
Lucifer
Feb 1, 2022, 8:41:46 PM2/1/22
to
>Sorry Charlie, but there is little conflict or debate within the JW
>organization. That is how the true religion functions:
>
>(1 Corinthians 1:10) Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our
>Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that
>there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely
>united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.
>
>-drum roll--THAT IS THE JW's.
>>>>>>>>You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
>>>>>>>>You said God does not fail.
>>>>>>>>That means there are no wicked people now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You do know that time always moves on, right? God cleansed the earth
>>>>>>>once, and He will do it again:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>>>>>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You wrote,
>>>>>>"God does not fail."
>>>>>>The first genocide was to clear the earth of wicked people.
>>>>>>"God does not fail."
>>>>>
>>>>>Didn't He do what He said? He didn't fail.
>>>>
>>>>So there are no wicked people now.
>>>
>>>That was a one time event. Later God will remove them again, for good.
>>
>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>>
>>You wrote,
>>"God does not fail."
>
>That is correct. God wanted to destroy all the wicked back then. And
>He didn't fail in doing that.
>Sincerely James
zeb...@windstream.net
Feb 2, 2022, 8:29:52 AM2/2/22
to
On Wed, 02 Feb 2022 12:41:39 +1100, Lucifer
It is true that we are all slaves. But slaves to God, not the
Watchtower:
(Romans 6:22) However, now that you were set free from sin and became
slaves to God, you are producing your fruit in the way of holiness,
and the end is everlasting life.
>
>>>>>>>>>You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
>>>>>>>>>You said God does not fail.
>>>>>>>>>That means there are no wicked people now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You do know that time always moves on, right? God cleansed the earth
>>>>>>>>once, and He will do it again:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>>>>>>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You wrote,
>>>>>>>"God does not fail."
>>>>>>>The first genocide was to clear the earth of wicked people.
>>>>>>>"God does not fail."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Didn't He do what He said? He didn't fail.
>>>>>
>>>>>So there are no wicked people now.
>>>>
>>>>That was a one time event. Later God will remove them again, for good.
>>>
>>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>>>
>>>You wrote,
>>>"God does not fail."
>>
>>That is correct. God wanted to destroy all the wicked back then. And
>>He didn't fail in doing that.
>
>Wh did God create more wicked?
That's where you are consistently confused. God doesn't create the
wicked. They make themselves wicked by misusing their gift of free
will. That is what happened in Noah's day, and that is what is
happening today.
Watchtower:
(Romans 6:22) However, now that you were set free from sin and became
slaves to God, you are producing your fruit in the way of holiness,
and the end is everlasting life.
>
>>>>>>>>>You said God's flood genocide was to remove all wicked people.
>>>>>>>>>You said God does not fail.
>>>>>>>>>That means there are no wicked people now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You do know that time always moves on, right? God cleansed the earth
>>>>>>>>once, and He will do it again:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>>>>>>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You wrote,
>>>>>>>"God does not fail."
>>>>>>>The first genocide was to clear the earth of wicked people.
>>>>>>>"God does not fail."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Didn't He do what He said? He didn't fail.
>>>>>
>>>>>So there are no wicked people now.
>>>>
>>>>That was a one time event. Later God will remove them again, for good.
>>>
>>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>>>
>>>You wrote,
>>>"God does not fail."
>>
>>That is correct. God wanted to destroy all the wicked back then. And
>>He didn't fail in doing that.
>
>Wh did God create more wicked?
wicked. They make themselves wicked by misusing their gift of free
will. That is what happened in Noah's day, and that is what is
happening today.
Lucifer
Feb 2, 2022, 3:42:37 PM2/2/22
to
Then you say God creates the wicked by the type of free will
he gives us.
>Sincerely James
zeb...@windstream.net
Feb 3, 2022, 11:35:46 AM2/3/22
to
On Thu, 03 Feb 2022 07:42:29 +1100, Lucifer
The Bible tells us the beginning of human sin:
(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into
the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men
because they had all sinned—.
Sin means to 'miss the mark'. That is why the Bible also calls
imperfection as sin.
affirmative.
>Then you say God creates the wicked by the type of free will
>he gives us.
You are twisting things so as to make God look bad. God creates only
perfect situations. (Deut 32:4) People have free will, and can turn
wicked at the drop of a hat.
(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into
the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men
because they had all sinned—.
imperfection as sin.
>Then you say God creates the wicked by the type of free will
>he gives us.
perfect situations. (Deut 32:4) People have free will, and can turn
wicked at the drop of a hat.
Lucifer
Feb 3, 2022, 4:33:04 PM2/3/22
to
Why does God want sin?
How is sin good?
to become wicked.
>God creates only perfect situations. (Deut 32:4)
>People have free will, and can turn wicked at the drop of a hat.
a perfect situation?
>Sincerely James
zeb...@windstream.net
Feb 4, 2022, 10:29:49 AM2/4/22
to
the first one to actually sin.
>Why does God want sin?
>How is sin good?
Well, it is good for people like those doing the Playboy magazine and
worse. Sin can bring you a lot of money. And you can enjoy it all your
life. But that is it. When you die, there is no more, forever. As
Jesus put it, 'you are having your rewards now'.
own.
>
>>God creates only perfect situations. (Deut 32:4)
>>People have free will, and can turn wicked at the drop of a hat.
>
>How is being able to turn wicked at the drop of a hat
>a perfect situation?
progeny.
Lucifer
Feb 4, 2022, 5:36:19 PM2/4/22
to
Let's try again. Is there such a thing as sin?
>>Why does God want sin?
>
>That is a silly question, and you should know better.
There can only be sin if God wants it.
>>How is sin good?
>
>Well, it is good for people like those doing the Playboy magazine and
>worse. Sin can bring you a lot of money. And you can enjoy it all your
>life.
>But that is it. When you die, there is no more, forever. As
>Jesus put it, 'you are having your rewards now'.
"They make themselves wicked by misusing their gift of free will."
Why did God give them that sort of free will?
How is it possible to "misuse" "free" will?
>>>God creates only perfect situations. (Deut 32:4)
>>>People have free will, and can turn wicked at the drop of a hat.
>>
>>How is being able to turn wicked at the drop of a hat
>>a perfect situation?
>
>I never said it was.
"God creates only perfect situations. (Deut 32:4)
People have free will, and can turn wicked at the drop of a hat."
How is being able to turn wicked at the drop of a hat
a perfect situation?
People have free will, and can turn wicked at the drop of a hat."
How is being able to turn wicked at the drop of a hat
a perfect situation?
>Adam ended perfection for humans.
Again it looks like you are blaming a created being for the actions
of the creator. I warned you about this several times.
>And we are his progeny.
Why does God not correct His errors?
>Sincerely James
zeb...@windstream.net
Feb 5, 2022, 12:23:14 PM2/5/22
to
On Tue, 01 Feb 2022 12:17:44 +1100, Lucifer
But that would mean that you couldn't pick any range of bad things. So
you would be a robot.
>
>Either way God has no right to judge us on how he made us.
Does the FMC have the right to judge its newest cars for defects?
>
>>>>>>>>For example, under those Mosaic Laws if you worked on the Sabbath
>>>>>>>>(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
>>>>>>>>or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
>>>>>>>>longer valid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That has nothing to do with what the bible says.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh really?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(Exodus 35:2) Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will
>>>>>>become something holy to you, a Sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah.
>>>>>>Anybody doing work on it will be put to death.
>>>>>
>>>>>I can understand why you find that unacceptable.
>>>>
>>>>Not if I lived back then. God made His existence known to the
>>>>Israelites. It was a literal theocracy.
>>>
>>>I hope you find much of the bible unacceptable.
>>
>>Yes, things like "love your neighbor as yourself" and "do unto others
>>what you want them to do to you" are unacceptable. We can't have such
>>things, can we. (Mt 19:19; 7:12)
>
>Indeed. Our moral standards have improved greatly since God was
>created.
Actually, they have improved greatly since the Bible was written.
>
>>>>>What else in the bible is unacceptable to you?
>>>>
>>>>Bible personage accusing God of atrocities.
>>>
>>>Why would that be unacceptable to you?
>>
>>I don't like accepting lies.
>>
>>All lies (or ignorant chatter) are unacceptable to me.
>
>Except the ignorant lies you tell in your posts?
>
There is no such thing as "ignorant lies". By definition a liar knows
that what he says is a lie. Otherwise, it is just an 'ignorant error'.
That is not how God originally intended things to be. He created life
forms that fed off of vegetation only.
>
>>>Why doesn't God simply change the things He got wrong?
>>
>>Since He did no wrong, He doesn't have to change anything HE did.
>
>You complain about things God did/does wrong.
You know I did not say God did things wrong. That is not in His
nature.
>
>>But He will change the mess that humans have make of things.
>
>Why?
Because His nature is to make bad things good.
>
>>>>>1800 victims and 1000 offenders in Australia alone.
>>>>
>>>>Proof please.
>>>
>>>www.jwwatch.org
>>
>>You use a JW hate web page as your proof? That is like a fox in a hen
>>house. You can do better than that.
>
>Australian Royal Commission.
>
>JWs own records.
You have gotten a hold of JW private records? I can't even do that.
What about the Australian Royal Commission? What did they publish
about JW's?
>
>>>>>>Yes, how did they ever get to write such meaningless Bible Scriptures.
>>>>>
>>>>>They wanted to control weak minded people such as yourself.
>>>>
>>>>And what if your closest living relative became a JW. Would you call
>>>>that person weak minded also?
>>>
>>>The only good JW is an ex-JW.
>>
>>You didn't answer my question. What if a relative became a JW?
>
>I have a friend who is a Christian.
>I made it clear I respect him as a person but I have no respect
>for his beliefs.
He probably wishes you did.
>
>>Yes, ex JW's can now take blood transfusions, join a false religion,
>>get a divorce at the drop of a hat, beat his wife (discretely though),
>>join the military and get his brains blown out. Pray to Jesus instead
>>of to God through Jesus. He can now cheat on his income tax, and lie
>>about anything he wishes. And lots more. I guess that is one way to
>>self destruct.
>
>In Australia JWs are not allowed to shun people who leave
>because of abuse.
JW's follow the written word:
(Acts 5:29) In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey
God as ruler rather than men.
>
>>>>>>And what is worse, is that Jesus added "love your neighbor as
>>>>>>yourself" and even to love your enemies. Can't have either of those.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hate the tribes on the other side of the river.
>>>>
>>>>Present day followers of Christ don't live in tribes.
>>>
>>>People were living tribes when God was created.
>>
>>You mean "god".
>
>Are you saying God was created as a god?
Men created gods. God always was:
(Psalm 90:2) Before the mountains were born Or you brought forth the
earth and the productive land, From everlasting to everlasting, you
are God.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>>>>>>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>>>>>>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Absolutely positively true.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If God wanted you to suffer, you would placed in boiling oil or
>>>>>>>>something.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If God wanted us to suffer he would have created us in such a
>>>>>>>way that we could suffer then placed us in a world where we would
>>>>>>>suffer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And we owe it all to Adam.
>>>>>
>>>>>You know that's not true. I've cautioned you about this before.
>>>>
>>>>I believe the Bible over you:
>>>
>>>Why?
>>
>>Because it tells the truth. (John 17:17)
>
>Bible says in Exodus 33:11,
>The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend.
The Bible has a certain style of writing. One thing it does is accepts
sittings as if they were the one they sit in for. Angels for God.
Jesus for God, etc.
(John 14:8, 9) Philip said to him: “Lord, show us the Father, and it
is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him: “Even after I have been with
you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me?
Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also. How is it you say, ‘Show
us the Father’?
>>>>(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into
>>>>the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men
>>>>because they had all sinned—.
>>>
>>>You need the context.
>>>
>>>[1:27] So God created humankind in his image, in the image of
>>>God he created them; male and female he created them.
>>>
>>>Colossians 1:16
>>>For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
>>>visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
>>>authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
>>
>>Yes, God created all things THROUGH Jesus and for Jesus. But God
>>always did the creating. (Gen 1:1)
>
>Thus God is responsible for all our problems.
>It is absurd to blame a created being for the actions of the creator.
Actually, it is absurd to blame the free will Creator for the actions
of the free will created being.
>
>>>>>>>>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>>>>>>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You need to be careful how you write things.
>>>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>>>opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I never said it was.
>>>>>
>>>>>I wrote;
>>>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>>You responded;
>>>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>>>opinion.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for answering
>>>>
>>>>But God never created Adam to rebel. He probably did that because of
>>>>Eve.
>>>
>>>You must be wrong about Adam rebelling.
>>
>>Since the Bible is the only reliable source telling about Adam, we
>>have what it tells us.
>
>If God never created Adam to rebel then Adam did not rebel.
If God made him to rebel, then Adam was a robot.
>
>>>>>>It is Bible fact. Archeologists have inspected
>>>>>>the area of that tower, and found other such building projects.
>>>>>
>>>>>Genesis 11:1
>>>>>"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech."
>>>>>
>>>>>Can't allow that!
>>>>
>>>>They broke God's directive about spreading out over the earth.
>>>
>>>They were happy.
>>
>>If disobeying God brought them happiness, they were totally mislead.
>
>You disobey God to make your life tolerable.
If you are so wise, how do I disobey God?
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>>>>>>>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>No comment?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
>>>>>>>>serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
>>>>>>>>out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of his
>>>>>>>>house, he would be robbed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Do any of those things happen?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>All the time.
>>>>>
>>>>>Those things would only happen if God wanted everyone wicked.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No, God does not like wickedness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Why did God create so many things he doesn't like?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Again, after creating, He said 'it was very good'.
>>>>>
>>>>>God thinks everything is good.
>>>>
>>>>It was, before humans came on the scene'
>>>
>>>Why did God create humans that way.
>>
>>He gave them a free will, instead of making them robots. Would you
>>have rather been born as a robot? Most people would say no. Free will
>>is a GIFT from God, esp when it is used properly.
>
>Why did God not give us enhanced free will that we would only
>use "properly?"
Once you say "we would only use properly", that means we can't use
improperly. Thus we would be robots.
>
>>>Why does God not correct His errors?
>>
>>God will correct OUR errors soon. As well as take complete control
>>over nature. No more hurricanes, severe earthquakes, tornadoes,
>>floods, killer lightening, super freezes, droughts, sink holes,zsdf
>>etc.
>
>Why did God cause/allow those things?
Not cause but allow. Because He is putting the finishing touches on
some universal issues. Such as the Devil claimed Job only served God
because God gave him so many things, such as herds of animals, a large
family, etc. The Devil said if things were bad, Job would curse him
His very face.
>
>>>>>>>>That's (why) there was the great flood in Genesis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's why there are no wicked people today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, the world's prisons are full of 'good' people today.
>>>>>
>>>>>God does not fail.
>>>>
>>>>Whenever God sends out His word, it won't come back to Him until it
>>>>has fulfilled its Bible truths.
>>>
>>>God does not fail so there are no wicked people today.
>>
>>When you eat out and get a pizza, do people assume you will always eat
>>out with a pizza? So just because God wiped out all wicked one time,
>>doesn't mean He will continually from then on, remove them. But he
>>will someday do so again.
>
>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
That's right. That is a prophecy yet to happen. Will you be there?
>
>>Do you like the wicked? As it stands today, a crook could break into
>>your house when you are sleeping, and fill you full of lead, making
>>you dead.
>
>You wrote,
>"Everything God does is good."
That is true, even if we don't understand it. For instance, many find
it difficult to accept God as good if He killed all those children
living, in the flood.
We find out later in the NT, that God holds parents responsible for
their young children. That puts the blame on them.
You have been hearing lies. At first, the JW's said to do what your
conscience said. Now the CDC recommends all kinds of things, and the
JW's follow the Scriptures such as at Rom 13:1:
(Romans 13:1) Let every person be in subjection to the superior
authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing
authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.
>
>>Sincerely James
you would be a robot.
>
>Either way God has no right to judge us on how he made us.
>
>>>>>>>>For example, under those Mosaic Laws if you worked on the Sabbath
>>>>>>>>(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
>>>>>>>>or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
>>>>>>>>longer valid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That has nothing to do with what the bible says.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh really?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(Exodus 35:2) Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will
>>>>>>become something holy to you, a Sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah.
>>>>>>Anybody doing work on it will be put to death.
>>>>>
>>>>>I can understand why you find that unacceptable.
>>>>
>>>>Not if I lived back then. God made His existence known to the
>>>>Israelites. It was a literal theocracy.
>>>
>>>I hope you find much of the bible unacceptable.
>>
>>Yes, things like "love your neighbor as yourself" and "do unto others
>>what you want them to do to you" are unacceptable. We can't have such
>>things, can we. (Mt 19:19; 7:12)
>
>Indeed. Our moral standards have improved greatly since God was
>created.
>
>>>>>What else in the bible is unacceptable to you?
>>>>
>>>>Bible personage accusing God of atrocities.
>>>
>>>Why would that be unacceptable to you?
>>
>>I don't like accepting lies.
>>
>>All lies (or ignorant chatter) are unacceptable to me.
>
>Except the ignorant lies you tell in your posts?
>
that what he says is a lie. Otherwise, it is just an 'ignorant error'.
forms that fed off of vegetation only.
>
>>>Why doesn't God simply change the things He got wrong?
>>
>>Since He did no wrong, He doesn't have to change anything HE did.
>
>You complain about things God did/does wrong.
nature.
>
>>But He will change the mess that humans have make of things.
>
>Why?
>
>>>>>1800 victims and 1000 offenders in Australia alone.
>>>>
>>>>Proof please.
>>>
>>>www.jwwatch.org
>>
>>You use a JW hate web page as your proof? That is like a fox in a hen
>>house. You can do better than that.
>
>Australian Royal Commission.
>
>JWs own records.
What about the Australian Royal Commission? What did they publish
about JW's?
>
>>>>>>Yes, how did they ever get to write such meaningless Bible Scriptures.
>>>>>
>>>>>They wanted to control weak minded people such as yourself.
>>>>
>>>>And what if your closest living relative became a JW. Would you call
>>>>that person weak minded also?
>>>
>>>The only good JW is an ex-JW.
>>
>>You didn't answer my question. What if a relative became a JW?
>
>I have a friend who is a Christian.
>I made it clear I respect him as a person but I have no respect
>for his beliefs.
>
>>Yes, ex JW's can now take blood transfusions, join a false religion,
>>get a divorce at the drop of a hat, beat his wife (discretely though),
>>join the military and get his brains blown out. Pray to Jesus instead
>>of to God through Jesus. He can now cheat on his income tax, and lie
>>about anything he wishes. And lots more. I guess that is one way to
>>self destruct.
>
>In Australia JWs are not allowed to shun people who leave
>because of abuse.
(Acts 5:29) In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey
God as ruler rather than men.
>
>>>>>>And what is worse, is that Jesus added "love your neighbor as
>>>>>>yourself" and even to love your enemies. Can't have either of those.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hate the tribes on the other side of the river.
>>>>
>>>>Present day followers of Christ don't live in tribes.
>>>
>>>People were living tribes when God was created.
>>
>>You mean "god".
>
>Are you saying God was created as a god?
(Psalm 90:2) Before the mountains were born Or you brought forth the
earth and the productive land, From everlasting to everlasting, you
are God.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Should we follow God's example by murdering everything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>with breath?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The Deluge was God's punishing the wicked. Other than Noah and his
>>>>>>>>>>>>family, the rest of the people on the planet were very wicked.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>We can't judge anyone because we can't read their hearts. Only God and
>>>>>>>>>>>>Jesus can do that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>God knows how he designed our brain and how he can correct it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Absolutely positively true.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You must hate God for his wanting us to suffer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If God wanted you to suffer, you would placed in boiling oil or
>>>>>>>>something.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If God wanted us to suffer he would have created us in such a
>>>>>>>way that we could suffer then placed us in a world where we would
>>>>>>>suffer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And we owe it all to Adam.
>>>>>
>>>>>You know that's not true. I've cautioned you about this before.
>>>>
>>>>I believe the Bible over you:
>>>
>>>Why?
>>
>>Because it tells the truth. (John 17:17)
>
>Bible says in Exodus 33:11,
>The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend.
sittings as if they were the one they sit in for. Angels for God.
Jesus for God, etc.
(John 14:8, 9) Philip said to him: “Lord, show us the Father, and it
is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him: “Even after I have been with
you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me?
Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also. How is it you say, ‘Show
us the Father’?
>>>>(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into
>>>>the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men
>>>>because they had all sinned—.
>>>
>>>You need the context.
>>>
>>>[1:27] So God created humankind in his image, in the image of
>>>God he created them; male and female he created them.
>>>
>>>Colossians 1:16
>>>For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
>>>visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
>>>authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
>>
>>Yes, God created all things THROUGH Jesus and for Jesus. But God
>>always did the creating. (Gen 1:1)
>
>Thus God is responsible for all our problems.
>It is absurd to blame a created being for the actions of the creator.
of the free will created being.
>
>>>>>>>>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>>>>>>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You need to be careful how you write things.
>>>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>>>opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I never said it was.
>>>>>
>>>>>I wrote;
>>>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>>You responded;
>>>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>>>opinion.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for answering
>>>>
>>>>But God never created Adam to rebel. He probably did that because of
>>>>Eve.
>>>
>>>You must be wrong about Adam rebelling.
>>
>>Since the Bible is the only reliable source telling about Adam, we
>>have what it tells us.
>
>If God never created Adam to rebel then Adam did not rebel.
>
>>>>>>It is Bible fact. Archeologists have inspected
>>>>>>the area of that tower, and found other such building projects.
>>>>>
>>>>>Genesis 11:1
>>>>>"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech."
>>>>>
>>>>>Can't allow that!
>>>>
>>>>They broke God's directive about spreading out over the earth.
>>>
>>>They were happy.
>>
>>If disobeying God brought them happiness, they were totally mislead.
>
>You disobey God to make your life tolerable.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>>>>>>>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>No comment?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
>>>>>>>>serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
>>>>>>>>out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of his
>>>>>>>>house, he would be robbed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Do any of those things happen?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>All the time.
>>>>>
>>>>>Those things would only happen if God wanted everyone wicked.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No, God does not like wickedness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Why did God create so many things he doesn't like?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Again, after creating, He said 'it was very good'.
>>>>>
>>>>>God thinks everything is good.
>>>>
>>>>It was, before humans came on the scene'
>>>
>>>Why did God create humans that way.
>>
>>He gave them a free will, instead of making them robots. Would you
>>have rather been born as a robot? Most people would say no. Free will
>>is a GIFT from God, esp when it is used properly.
>
>Why did God not give us enhanced free will that we would only
>use "properly?"
improperly. Thus we would be robots.
>
>>>Why does God not correct His errors?
>>
>>God will correct OUR errors soon. As well as take complete control
>>over nature. No more hurricanes, severe earthquakes, tornadoes,
>>floods, killer lightening, super freezes, droughts, sink holes,zsdf
>>etc.
>
>Why did God cause/allow those things?
some universal issues. Such as the Devil claimed Job only served God
because God gave him so many things, such as herds of animals, a large
family, etc. The Devil said if things were bad, Job would curse him
His very face.
>
>>>>>>>>That's (why) there was the great flood in Genesis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's why there are no wicked people today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, the world's prisons are full of 'good' people today.
>>>>>
>>>>>God does not fail.
>>>>
>>>>Whenever God sends out His word, it won't come back to Him until it
>>>>has fulfilled its Bible truths.
>>>
>>>God does not fail so there are no wicked people today.
>>
>>When you eat out and get a pizza, do people assume you will always eat
>>out with a pizza? So just because God wiped out all wicked one time,
>>doesn't mean He will continually from then on, remove them. But he
>>will someday do so again.
>
>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>
>>Do you like the wicked? As it stands today, a crook could break into
>>your house when you are sleeping, and fill you full of lead, making
>>you dead.
>
>You wrote,
>"Everything God does is good."
it difficult to accept God as good if He killed all those children
living, in the flood.
We find out later in the NT, that God holds parents responsible for
their young children. That puts the blame on them.
conscience said. Now the CDC recommends all kinds of things, and the
JW's follow the Scriptures such as at Rom 13:1:
(Romans 13:1) Let every person be in subjection to the superior
authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing
authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.
>
>>Sincerely James
Lucifer
Feb 5, 2022, 6:48:31 PM2/5/22
to
>So you would be a robot.
You don't choose to have panic attacks.
>>Either way God has no right to judge us on how he made us.
>
>Does the FMC have the right to judge its newest cars for defects?
God has no right to judge us on how he made us.
>>>>>>>>>For example, under those Mosaic Laws if you worked on the Sabbath
>>>>>>>>>(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
>>>>>>>>>or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
>>>>>>>>>longer valid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That has nothing to do with what the bible says.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Oh really?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>(Exodus 35:2) Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will
>>>>>>>become something holy to you, a Sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah.
>>>>>>>Anybody doing work on it will be put to death.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I can understand why you find that unacceptable.
>>>>>
>>>>>Not if I lived back then. God made His existence known to the
>>>>>Israelites. It was a literal theocracy.
>>>>
>>>>I hope you find much of the bible unacceptable.
>>>
>>>Yes, things like "love your neighbor as yourself" and "do unto others
>>>what you want them to do to you" are unacceptable. We can't have such
>>>things, can we. (Mt 19:19; 7:12)
>>
>>Indeed. Our moral standards have improved greatly since God was
>>created.
>
>Actually, they have improved greatly since the Bible was written.
That too.
>>>>>>>>>(Saturday) , it was the death penalty. Today you can work on Saturday
>>>>>>>>>or not. It's up to you. There is no penalty for observing a law no
>>>>>>>>>longer valid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That has nothing to do with what the bible says.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Oh really?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>(Exodus 35:2) Work may be done for six days, but the seventh day will
>>>>>>>become something holy to you, a Sabbath of complete rest to Jehovah.
>>>>>>>Anybody doing work on it will be put to death.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I can understand why you find that unacceptable.
>>>>>
>>>>>Not if I lived back then. God made His existence known to the
>>>>>Israelites. It was a literal theocracy.
>>>>
>>>>I hope you find much of the bible unacceptable.
>>>
>>>Yes, things like "love your neighbor as yourself" and "do unto others
>>>what you want them to do to you" are unacceptable. We can't have such
>>>things, can we. (Mt 19:19; 7:12)
>>
>>Indeed. Our moral standards have improved greatly since God was
>>created.
>
>Actually, they have improved greatly since the Bible was written.
Why doesn't God simply correct his errors?
>>>>Why doesn't God simply change the things He got wrong?
>>>
>>>Since He did no wrong, He doesn't have to change anything HE did.
>>
>>You complain about things God did/does wrong.
>
>You know I did not say God did things wrong. That is not in His
>nature.
>>>But He will change the mess that humans have make of things.
>>
>>Why?
>
>Because His nature is to make bad things good.
>>>>>>1800 victims and 1000 offenders in Australia alone.
>>>>>
>>>>>Proof please.
>>>>
>>>>www.jwwatch.org
>>>
>>>You use a JW hate web page as your proof? That is like a fox in a hen
>>>house. You can do better than that.
>>
>>Australian Royal Commission.
>>
>>JWs own records.
>
>You have gotten a hold of JW private records? I can't even do that.
>What about the Australian Royal Commission? What did they publish
>about JW's?
complaint of sexual molestation.
1800 victims and 1000 offenders in Australia alone.
Is that what God wants?
>>>>>>>Yes, how did they ever get to write such meaningless Bible Scriptures.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>They wanted to control weak minded people such as yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>>And what if your closest living relative became a JW. Would you call
>>>>>that person weak minded also?
>>>>
>>>>The only good JW is an ex-JW.
>>>
>>>You didn't answer my question. What if a relative became a JW?
>>
>>I have a friend who is a Christian.
>>I made it clear I respect him as a person but I have no respect
>>for his beliefs.
>
>He probably wishes you did.
>>>Yes, ex JW's can now take blood transfusions, join a false religion,
>>>get a divorce at the drop of a hat, beat his wife (discretely though),
>>>join the military and get his brains blown out. Pray to Jesus instead
>>>of to God through Jesus. He can now cheat on his income tax, and lie
>>>about anything he wishes. And lots more. I guess that is one way to
>>>self destruct.
>>
>>In Australia JWs are not allowed to shun people who leave
>>because of abuse.
>
>JW's follow the written word:
>
>(Acts 5:29) In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey
>God as ruler rather than men.
The Bible has a certain style of writing. One thing it does is accepts
sittings as if they were the one they sit in for. Angels for God.
Jesus for God, etc.
>>Bible says in Exodus 33:11,
>>The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend.
>
>The Bible has a certain style of writing. One thing it does is accepts
>sittings as if they were the one they sit in for. Angels for God.
>Jesus for God, etc.
Is Exodus 33:11 the truth?
sittings as if they were the one they sit in for. Angels for God.
Jesus for God, etc.
>>Bible says in Exodus 33:11,
>>The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend.
>
>The Bible has a certain style of writing. One thing it does is accepts
>sittings as if they were the one they sit in for. Angels for God.
>Jesus for God, etc.
>(John 14:8, 9) Philip said to him: “Lord, show us the Father, and it
>is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him: “Even after I have been with
>you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me?
>Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also. How is it you say, ‘Show
>us the Father’?
>
>>>>>(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into
>>>>>the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men
>>>>>because they had all sinned—.
>>>>
>>>>You need the context.
>>>>
>>>>[1:27] So God created humankind in his image, in the image of
>>>>God he created them; male and female he created them.
>>>>
>>>>Colossians 1:16
>>>>For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
>>>>visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
>>>>authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
>>>
>>>Yes, God created all things THROUGH Jesus and for Jesus. But God
>>>always did the creating. (Gen 1:1)
>>
>>Thus God is responsible for all our problems.
>>It is absurd to blame a created being for the actions of the creator.
>
>Actually, it is absurd to blame the free will Creator for the actions
>of the free will created being.
It is absurd to NOT blame the free will Creator for the actions
of the free will created being.
>>>>>>>>>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>>>>>>>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>You need to be careful how you write things.
>>>>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>>>>opinion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I never said it was.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I wrote;
>>>>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>>>You responded;
>>>>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>>>>opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for answering
>>>>>
>>>>>But God never created Adam to rebel. He probably did that because of
>>>>>Eve.
>>>>
>>>>You must be wrong about Adam rebelling.
>>>
>>>Since the Bible is the only reliable source telling about Adam, we
>>>have what it tells us.
>>
>>If God never created Adam to rebel then Adam did not rebel.
>
>If God made him to rebel, then Adam was a robot.
Did Adam rebel?
>>>>>>>>>>>Adam and Eve made themselves rebels and thus subject to imperfection,
>>>>>>>>>>>which they passed on to their offspring.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>You need to be careful how you write things.
>>>>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>>>>opinion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What makes you think Genesis 11:1-8 is human opinion?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I never said it was.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I wrote;
>>>>>>>>>>God put the desire to rebel into Adam and Eve because He does not
>>>>>>>>>>want us to be happy. See Genesis 11:1-8
>>>>>>You responded;
>>>>>>>>>There is no Bible truths for what you say. Thus it is all human
>>>>>>>>>opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for answering
>>>>>
>>>>>But God never created Adam to rebel. He probably did that because of
>>>>>Eve.
>>>>
>>>>You must be wrong about Adam rebelling.
>>>
>>>Since the Bible is the only reliable source telling about Adam, we
>>>have what it tells us.
>>
>>If God never created Adam to rebel then Adam did not rebel.
>
>If God made him to rebel, then Adam was a robot.
>>>>>>>It is Bible fact. Archeologists have inspected
>>>>>>>the area of that tower, and found other such building projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Genesis 11:1
>>>>>>"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Can't allow that!
>>>>>
>>>>>They broke God's directive about spreading out over the earth.
>>>>
>>>>They were happy.
>>>
>>>If disobeying God brought them happiness, they were totally mislead.
>>
>>You disobey God to make your life tolerable.
>
>If you are so wise, how do I disobey God?
attacks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>God will soon judge today's wicked, so we have to be patient.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>You keep saying that and I keep correcting you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>There are so many wicked because God wants things that way.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>No comment?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Sure. If God wanted everyone wicked, there would be pedophiles and
>>>>>>>>>serial killers, etc. living next door to you. If a daughter stepped
>>>>>>>>>out of her house, she would be raped. If a man stepped out of his
>>>>>>>>>house, he would be robbed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Do any of those things happen?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>All the time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Those things would only happen if God wanted everyone wicked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>No, God does not like wickedness.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Why did God create so many things he doesn't like?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Again, after creating, He said 'it was very good'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>God thinks everything is good.
>>>>>
>>>>>It was, before humans came on the scene'
>>>>
>>>>Why did God create humans that way.
>>>
>>>He gave them a free will, instead of making them robots. Would you
>>>have rather been born as a robot? Most people would say no. Free will
>>>is a GIFT from God, esp when it is used properly.
>>
>>Why did God not give us enhanced free will that we would only
>>use "properly?"
>
>Once you say "we would only use properly", that means we can't use
>improperly. Thus we would be robots.
>>>>Why does God not correct His errors?
>>>
>>>God will correct OUR errors soon. As well as take complete control
>>>over nature. No more hurricanes, severe earthquakes, tornadoes,
>>>floods, killer lightening, super freezes, droughts, sink holes,zsdf
>>>etc.
>>
>>Why did God cause/allow those things?
>
>Not cause but allow. Because He is putting the finishing touches on
>some universal issues. Such as the Devil claimed Job only served God
>because God gave him so many things, such as herds of animals, a large
>family, etc. The Devil said if things were bad, Job would curse him
>His very face.
floods, killer lightening, super freezes, droughts, sink holes,zsdf
etc?
>>>>>>>>>That's (why) there was the great flood in Genesis.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That's why there are no wicked people today.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes, the world's prisons are full of 'good' people today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>God does not fail.
>>>>>
>>>>>Whenever God sends out His word, it won't come back to Him until it
>>>>>has fulfilled its Bible truths.
>>>>
>>>>God does not fail so there are no wicked people today.
>>>
>>>When you eat out and get a pizza, do people assume you will always eat
>>>out with a pizza? So just because God wiped out all wicked one time,
>>>doesn't mean He will continually from then on, remove them. But he
>>>will someday do so again.
>>
>>(Psalm 37:10) Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no
>>more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
>
>That's right. That is a prophecy yet to happen. Will you be there?
>>>Do you like the wicked? As it stands today, a crook could break into
>>>your house when you are sleeping, and fill you full of lead, making
>>>you dead.
>>
>>You wrote,
>>"Everything God does is good."
>
>That is true, even if we don't understand it. For instance, many find
>it difficult to accept God as good if He killed all those children
>living, in the flood.
>
>We find out later in the NT, that God holds parents responsible for
>their young children. That puts the blame on them.
That puts the blame on you.
zeb...@windstream.net
Feb 7, 2022, 10:45:03 AM2/7/22
to
On Fri, 04 Feb 2022 08:14:06 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>On Feb 4, 2022, zeb...@windstream.net wrote
>(in article<lbgqvgdnb3edj0auq...@4ax.com>):
>
Be careful calling the Bible "false":
(1 Corinthians 6:9, 10) Or do you not know that unrighteous people
will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are
sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual
acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people,
drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.
(Matthew 6:2) So when you make gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet
ahead of you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the
streets, so that they may be glorified by men. Truly I say to you,
they have their reward in full.
(Matthew 6:5) “Also, when you pray, do not act like the hypocrites,
for they like to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of
the main streets to be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have
their reward in full.
(Matthew 6:16) “When you fast, stop becoming sad-faced like the
hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces so they may appear to men
to be fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
So yes, the wicked are having their reward of enjoying their
wickedness.
>According to you, if you are a serial killer, and you love to torture people
>for the power if gives you, that is your reward, and the more successful the
>person you kill and take their goods, the greater the reward. Jesus never put
>it that way.
Don't take my word for it, see the Scriptures cited above.
>
>According to you there is no white throne judgment.
When it is in the Bible, there certainly is. You apparently are
misinterpreting me. But that is not surprising when you have a 'hate
JW's' mask over your face.
>
>Rev 20:11(11-15) And I saw a throne, a great white one, and Him who is seated
>on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled. And place was not found
>for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the
>throne. And the scrolls were opened. And another scroll was opened which is
>the scroll of the life. And the dead were judged on the basis of the things
>that stand written in the scrolls according to their works. And the sea gave
>up the dead who were in it. And death and the Unseen gave up the dead who
>were in them. And each one was judged according to their works. And death and
>the Unseen were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the
>lake of fire. And whoever was not found recorded in the book of the life was
>cast into the lake of fire.
Yes, that will certainly happen.
>
>You state over and over again that you "Believe all the Bible", yet you do
>not.
Another misinterpretation.
>
>You have no clue as to what is just.
"Just" what the Bible teaches. (2 Tim 3:16)
Sincerely James
Worship ONLY God
Not Jesus (Mt 4:10)
www.jw.org
>On Feb 4, 2022, zeb...@windstream.net wrote
>(in article<lbgqvgdnb3edj0auq...@4ax.com>):
>
>> > How is sin good?
>>
>> Well, it is good for people like those doing the Playboy magazine and worse.
>> Sin can bring you a lot of money. And you can enjoy it all your life. But
>> that is it. When you die, there is no more, forever. As Jesus put it, 'you
>> are having your rewards now'.
>
>That is so false it isn't even funny.
>> > How is sin good?
>>
>> Well, it is good for people like those doing the Playboy magazine and worse.
>> Sin can bring you a lot of money. And you can enjoy it all your life. But
>> that is it. When you die, there is no more, forever. As Jesus put it, 'you
>> are having your rewards now'.
>
>
Be careful calling the Bible "false":
(1 Corinthians 6:9, 10) Or do you not know that unrighteous people
will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are
sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual
acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people,
drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.
(Matthew 6:2) So when you make gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet
ahead of you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the
streets, so that they may be glorified by men. Truly I say to you,
they have their reward in full.
(Matthew 6:5) “Also, when you pray, do not act like the hypocrites,
for they like to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of
the main streets to be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have
their reward in full.
(Matthew 6:16) “When you fast, stop becoming sad-faced like the
hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces so they may appear to men
to be fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
So yes, the wicked are having their reward of enjoying their
wickedness.
>According to you, if you are a serial killer, and you love to torture people
>for the power if gives you, that is your reward, and the more successful the
>person you kill and take their goods, the greater the reward. Jesus never put
>it that way.
Don't take my word for it, see the Scriptures cited above.
>
>According to you there is no white throne judgment.
When it is in the Bible, there certainly is. You apparently are
misinterpreting me. But that is not surprising when you have a 'hate
JW's' mask over your face.
>
>Rev 20:11(11-15) And I saw a throne, a great white one, and Him who is seated
>on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled. And place was not found
>for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the
>throne. And the scrolls were opened. And another scroll was opened which is
>the scroll of the life. And the dead were judged on the basis of the things
>that stand written in the scrolls according to their works. And the sea gave
>up the dead who were in it. And death and the Unseen gave up the dead who
>were in them. And each one was judged according to their works. And death and
>the Unseen were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the
>lake of fire. And whoever was not found recorded in the book of the life was
>cast into the lake of fire.
Yes, that will certainly happen.
>
>You state over and over again that you "Believe all the Bible", yet you do
>not.
Another misinterpretation.
>
>You have no clue as to what is just.
"Just" what the Bible teaches. (2 Tim 3:16)
Sincerely James
Worship ONLY God
Not Jesus (Mt 4:10)
www.jw.org
Lucifer
Feb 7, 2022, 7:35:50 PM2/7/22
to
On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:44:58 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>On Fri, 04 Feb 2022 08:14:06 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>
>>On Feb 4, 2022, zeb...@windstream.net wrote
>>(in article<lbgqvgdnb3edj0auq...@4ax.com>):
>>
>>> > How is sin good?
>>>
>>> Well, it is good for people like those doing the Playboy magazine and worse.
>>> Sin can bring you a lot of money. And you can enjoy it all your life. But
>>> that is it. When you die, there is no more, forever. As Jesus put it, 'you
>>> are having your rewards now'.
>>
>>That is so false it isn't even funny.
>>
>
>Be careful calling the Bible "false":
Be careful threatening people.
>On Fri, 04 Feb 2022 08:14:06 -0800, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>
>>On Feb 4, 2022, zeb...@windstream.net wrote
>>(in article<lbgqvgdnb3edj0auq...@4ax.com>):
>>
>>> > How is sin good?
>>>
>>> Well, it is good for people like those doing the Playboy magazine and worse.
>>> Sin can bring you a lot of money. And you can enjoy it all your life. But
>>> that is it. When you die, there is no more, forever. As Jesus put it, 'you
>>> are having your rewards now'.
>>
>>That is so false it isn't even funny.
>>
>
>Be careful calling the Bible "false":
>(1 Corinthians 6:9, 10) Or do you not know that unrighteous people
>will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are
>sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual
>acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people,
>drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.
>(Matthew 6:2) So when you make gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet
>ahead of you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the
>streets, so that they may be glorified by men. Truly I say to you,
>they have their reward in full.
>
>(Matthew 6:5) “Also, when you pray, do not act like the hypocrites,
>for they like to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of
>the main streets to be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have
>their reward in full.
>
>(Matthew 6:16) “When you fast, stop becoming sad-faced like the
>hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces so they may appear to men
>to be fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
>
>So yes, the wicked are having their reward of enjoying their
>wickedness.
>
>>According to you, if you are a serial killer, and you love to torture people
>>for the power if gives you, that is your reward, and the more successful the
>>person you kill and take their goods, the greater the reward. Jesus never put
>>it that way.
>
>Don't take my word for it, see the Scriptures cited above.
>>According to you there is no white throne judgment.
>
>When it is in the Bible, there certainly is. You apparently are
>misinterpreting me. But that is not surprising when you have a 'hate
>JW's' mask over your face.
>
>>
>>Rev 20:11(11-15) And I saw a throne, a great white one, and Him who is seated
>>on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled. And place was not found
>>for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the
>>throne. And the scrolls were opened. And another scroll was opened which is
>>the scroll of the life. And the dead were judged on the basis of the things
>>that stand written in the scrolls according to their works. And the sea gave
>>up the dead who were in it. And death and the Unseen gave up the dead who
>>were in them. And each one was judged according to their works. And death and
>>the Unseen were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the
>>lake of fire. And whoever was not found recorded in the book of the life was
>>cast into the lake of fire.
>
>Yes, that will certainly happen.
>>You state over and over again that you "Believe all the Bible", yet you do
>>not.
>
> Another misinterpretation.
>
>>
>>You have no clue as to what is just.
>
>"Just" what the Bible teaches. (2 Tim 3:16)
>Sincerely James
Lucifer
Feb 8, 2022, 4:49:45 AM2/8/22
to
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