The Seduction of Homeschooling Families - by Chris Cardiff
Mark T
The Seduction of Homeschooling Families
by Chris Cardiff
Some comments on this poorly written piece of FEAR mongering propaganda ...
1.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Do the public school authorities feel threatened by homeschooling?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No, but homeschoolers would like to thnk so.
2.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Qualitatively, the academic success of homeschoolers, measured by
standardized test scores and recruitment by colleges [1], debunk the myth
that parents need to hire credentialed experts to force children to learn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is QUANTITATIVE measurement ... nothing to do with QUALITY of
education! Standardised tests and recruitment by colleges are not
sufficient evidence of QUALITY EDUCATION.
3.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When enough families have voluntarily returned to the government system, it
will be a relatively straightforward matter to recapture the rest by
imposing mandatory homeschooling oversight regulations.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Much of homeschooling is built on FEAR (as is fundamentalism). This is why
homeschooling appeals to fundamentalists.
Would you want the "doctor" who is about to operate on you to be supervised
by a more qualified surgeon? Or would you like the same "doctor" to be an
ex butcher with no knowledge of surgery or medicine ... or hygiene????
"It'll be alright, luv. I've chopped up steak with the same hatchet ... and
me butcher's apron was washed last month .... now I just gotta find out
where ya T-bone is .... what are these sausages doin' in ya guts?!" <rips
out intestines> "ah! That's better! ... I luv home-doctorin'!!!!"
A homeschooler being supervised by a more qualified educational peofessional
is no different! It is about quality control for basic minimum educational
standards.
4.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The term "homeschooling" is a bit of a misnomer. To many people, the word
conjures up a vision of mom instructing her kids around the kitchen table -
a myth perpetuated by the media who invariably demand this particular image
to accompany their stories.
The reality is far different. While instruction around the kitchen table
does indeed occur in most homeschooling families
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In other words, it IS basically Mom (with no educational qualification and
no knowledge of teaching or education) sitting at the kitchen table with her
own kids.
5.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
. renting community rooms (or homes) for group activities and classes
. hiring professional teachers by the hour (e.g., our science teacher is
paid $75/hour, which breaks down to $5/child);
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mmmm .... sounds like the early public schools.
6.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
some states imposed mandatory oversight by local school district officials
requiring curriculum approval and quarterly evaluation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A sensible policy to ensure quality control over education for all children.
7.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the National Education Association (NEA) has already formulated the game
plan for state control of all homeschooling. For the last several years
during their biannual conventions, the NEA has passed formal homeschooling
resolutions demanding that:
. Teachers of home instruction programs should meet state certification
requirements.
. Authorized state or local permission should be required annually for home
study.
. Home study should be monitored by local school administrative personnel
knowledgeable about excellence in the teaching-learning environment.
. Students should participate in state or locally mandated testing programs
in suitable settings and in other assessments conducted by the school
district.
. Students should have the option of attending public school for part-time
instruction. They should be counted in the average daily membership (ADM)
without proration
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I totally support this sensible policy to ensure quality education for every
child.
How would homeschoolers ENSURE the quality control of education for
individual students otherwise?
"Mom says I'm going ok." ????????
Homeschooling freedom does not extend to destroying a child's education.
Much of homeschooling is built on FEAR (as is fundamentalism).
Will the attitude of FEAR be passed down to children who are homeschooled?
Wayne
>
>From http://www.loveathome.com/homeschool/seduction.htm
>
>The Seduction of Homeschooling Families
>
>by Chris Cardiff
That's been around for a while -----
Maybe you'll like this one too.
http://www.honestedu.org/edlib/v1n5/lead.php
The critical distinction between homeschooling & government schooling
by Chris Cardiff
Wayne
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't want my children fed or clothed by the state ---
But I would prefer that to their being educated by the state
www.sepschool.org
Mark T
> Maybe you'll like this one too.
>
> http://www.honestedu.org/edlib/v1n5/lead.php
>
> The critical distinction between homeschooling & government schooling
>
> by Chris Cardiff
Comments .....
1.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Homeschooling's bedrock principle is liberty. Freedom for children and
families to learn and teach what they want, how they want, and when they
want. Freedom for parents to spend as much, or as little, of their own
resources as they decide is necessary on educating their own children.
Freedom for families to make their own educational choices.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Parental freedom needs to be bridled with responsibility.
You are not free to teach anything. You cannot teach that terrorism is good
and that your kids shgould be involved in it.
You are not free to keep your kids ignorant. The government is elected to
ensure that every child has at least a minimal education.
2.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They choose to force all parents to submit their children to the government
school system in order to "help" those few children who might have
neglectful parents.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No, there are laws that protect children from parents who do not educate
them. The stae ensures that the childs rights are not obliterated by the
parents' wishes.
3.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
homeschooling ... protects children from having the values of the political
majority (or active minority) imposed on them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Homeschooling (without adequate state supervison) could become a terrorist
cell if parents are allowed to teach anything. Should the state prot6ect
all children or only those nmot homeschooled?
4.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
professionals hired for specific subject matter needs .... distance learning
using new technologies
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sounds like current contemporary education in state schools!
5.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Homeschoolers are the "freedom fighters" of educational reform .... Marshall
Fritz describes homeschoolers as the "leading edge of the wedge" in the
fight for educational freedom.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wish! Christian homeschoolers are more like uneducated fundamentalists
advancing the Fundamentalist Dark Age. Not the "leading edge of the wedge"
but the "leading fools of homeskools."
Much of homeschooling is built on FEAR (as is fundamentalism). This is why
homeschooling appeals to fundamentalists.
Would you want the "doctor" who is about to operate on you to be supervised
by a more qualified surgeon? Or would you like the same "doctor" to be an
ex butcher with no knowledge of surgery or medicine ... or hygiene????
"It'll be alright, luv. I've chopped up steak with the same hatchet ... and
me butcher's apron was washed last month .... now I just gotta find out
where ya T-bone is .... what are these sausages doin' in ya guts?!" <rips
out intestines> "ah! That's better! ... I luv home-doctorin'!!!!"
A homeschooler being supervised by a more qualified educational peofessional
is no different! It is about quality control for basic minimum educational
standards.
Theo Bekkers
> That's been around for a while -----
> Maybe you'll like this one too.
>
> http://www.honestedu.org/edlib/v1n5/lead.php
Wow, He would havee us go back to the 1700s when there was no compulsory
schooling for children. It was up to each family to educate their children
as they saw fit and could afford. 90% of the population was illiterate under
this system.
Theo
Jani
"Theo Bekkers" <tbek...@bekkers.com.au> wrote in message
news:4397d9c1$1...@news.bekkers.com.au...
Marshall Fritz actually advocates the return of dame schools. And if you
look a bit more closely at the "separation movement", the priority isn't
improving quality of education, it's promoting christianity and keeping
children away from "secular" ideologies in schools. Religious indoctrination
instead of education, in other words.
Jani
swa...@ozemail.com.au
Jani wrote:
> "Theo Bekkers" <tbek...@bekkers.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4397d9c1$1...@news.bekkers.com.au...
>
> >
> > schooling for children. It was up to each family to educate their children
> > as they saw fit and could afford. 90% of the population was illiterate
> > under this system.
>
That is an emotional over-reaction. There are many more resources,
commercial and ones that can be hand-made for lessons held at home, as
parents desire them. The Internet gives an amazing amount of
information. In that sense, homeschooling is an adjunct to the teaching
in schools as pupils are required to research their assignment topics
and after-school tutoring has expanded greatly since the late 1980's.
> Marshall Fritz actually advocates the return of dame schools. And if you
> look a bit more closely at the "separation movement", the priority isn't
> improving quality of education, it's promoting Christianity and keeping
> children away from "secular" ideologies in schools. Religious indoctrination
> instead of education, in other words.
>
Why shouldn't parents teach their children the truths they find in
Christianity?
The 'separation of church and state', as I read of that aspect of the
USA was not that Christians were to be excluded from Government
decision making, but, rather, that no denomination would be in a
position to control Government policies and legislation. I'll need to
read up on that issue again.
Homeschooling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling
That website gives, what could be, a more balanced approach to the
Homeschooling movement in the USA.
The resurgence of homeschooling in the early 20th Century, in some
instances, was a reaction to the educational directives of John Dewey
which had brought about a decline in academic skills and behaviours.
(John Dewey influenced educators in other countries, including New
South Wales and probably other Australian states. It was stated about
1998 that 'John Dewey was out in New South Wales schools. A very
slow-in-coming admission, but possibly influenced by an article on John
Dewey in the Children's Britannica.published 1995.)
By the time of the 1880 Education Act in NSW most Protestant schools
had closed and an informant has told me that the Roman Catholic system
was prepared to do the same, but was ordered not to do so by the
Vatican. At the present-time it would seem that Roman Catholics are
more interested in the secular and religious education of children.
However, that would be a wrong implication. In more recent years there
has been a movement to increase the number of Protestant schools.
Gladys Swager
swa...@ozemail.com.au
Jani wrote:
> "Theo Bekkers" <tbek...@bekkers.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4397d9c1$1...@news.bekkers.com.au...
>
> >
> > schooling for children. It was up to each family to educate their children
> > as they saw fit and could afford. 90% of the population was illiterate
> > under this system.
>
That is an emotional over-reaction. There are many more resources,
commercial and ones that can be hand-made for lessons held at home, as
parents desire them. The Internet gives an amazing amount of
information. In that sense, homeschooling is an adjunct to the teaching
in schools as pupils are required to research their assignment topics
and after-school tutoring has expanded greatly since the late 1980's.
> Marshall Fritz actually advocates the return of dame schools. And if you
> look a bit more closely at the "separation movement", the priority isn't
> improving quality of education, it's promoting Christianity and keeping
> children away from "secular" ideologies in schools. Religious indoctrination
> instead of education, in other words.
>
swa...@ozemail.com.au
Jani wrote:
> "Theo Bekkers" <tbek...@bekkers.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4397d9c1$1...@news.bekkers.com.au...
>
> >
> > schooling for children. It was up to each family to educate their children
> > as they saw fit and could afford. 90% of the population was illiterate
> > under this system.
>
That is an emotional over-reaction. There are many more resources,
commercial and ones that can be hand-made for lessons held at home, as
parents desire them. The Internet gives an amazing amount of
information. In that sense, homeschooling is an adjunct to the teaching
in schools as pupils are required to research their assignment topics
and after-school tutoring has expanded greatly since the late 1980's.
> Marshall Fritz actually advocates the return of dame schools. And if you
> look a bit more closely at the "separation movement", the priority isn't
> improving quality of education, it's promoting Christianity and keeping
> children away from "secular" ideologies in schools. Religious indoctrination
> instead of education, in other words.
>
Jani
"s...@ozemail.com.au" <swa...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:1134037923.9...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jani wrote:
>> "Theo Bekkers" <tbek...@bekkers.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:4397d9c1$1...@news.bekkers.com.au...
>>
>> >
>> > Wow, He would have us go back to the 1700s when there was no compulsory
>> > schooling for children. It was up to each family to educate their
>> > children
>> > as they saw fit and could afford. 90% of the population was illiterate
>> > under this system.
>>
> Homeschooling today would not be a matter of going back to the 1700's.
> That is an emotional over-reaction. There are many more resources,
> commercial and ones that can be hand-made for lessons held at home, as
> parents desire them. The Internet gives an amazing amount of
> information. In that sense, homeschooling is an adjunct to the teaching
> in schools as pupils are required to research their assignment topics
> and after-school tutoring has expanded greatly since the late 1980's.
Not all homes have computers or the Net, not all parents know how to access
or create their own resources, and homeschooling is very different from
helping a child do research for homework projects. If the state system is no
longer available, what sort of education will children get in homes where
parents know nothing about teaching and have no money for long-distance
learning resources, or private tutors? Not a lot. Theo is right.
>
>> Marshall Fritz actually advocates the return of dame schools. And if you
>> look a bit more closely at the "separation movement", the priority isn't
>> improving quality of education, it's promoting Christianity and keeping
>> children away from "secular" ideologies in schools. Religious
>> indoctrination
>> instead of education, in other words.
>>
> Why shouldn't parents teach their children the truths they find in
> Christianity?
No reason why they shouldn't. However, this movement is advocating "death to
the schools", recommending that children should be either homeschooled or
sent to Christian schools, and that Christians should take over school
boards in order to promote Christian ideology. That has very little to do
with the children supposedly getting a better education at home, and
everything to do with religion.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/schoolz.htm
Note that although the "more liberal" end of the movement has a "sprinkling"
of Jews and Muslims, it is overwhelmingly Christian - how would these people
feel if there was a mass movement of Muslims in the US, homeschooling their
children in Islamic values and advocating the takeover of school boards to
ensure that Muslim ideology was taught?
Jani
swa...@ozemail.com.au
Jani wrote:
> "s...@ozemail.com.au" <swa...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:1134037923.9...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Jani wrote:
>
> >>
> > There are many more resources,
> > commercial and ones that can be hand-made for lessons held at home, as
> > parents desire them. The Internet gives an amazing amount of
> > information. In that sense, homeschooling is an adjunct to the teaching
> > in schools as pupils are required to research their assignment topics
> > and after-school tutoring has expanded greatly since the late 1980's.
>
> Not all homes have computers or the Net, not all parents know how to access
> or create their own resources, and homeschooling is very different from
> helping a child do research for homework projects. If the state system is no
> longer available, what sort of education will children get in homes where
> parents know nothing about teaching and have no money for long-distance
> learning resources, or private tutors? Not a lot. Theo is right.
>
use of computers, either in the home or as community-based resources
available through local government or private enterprise. There is no
doubt that as time progresses that computers will be in most or all
homes as telephones are now.
>
However, it is as fact that the Humanistic - secular leadership of
John Dewey in America from the early 1900's to his death in 1952 did
have adverse consequences in the education of many students. That was
not only in the USA, but in other countries as well.
I am well aware of the deterioration in the behaviours of some children
in the last 60 years, as compared with those of children in my own
schooling.
>
> >>(If you) look a bit more closely at the "separation movement", the priority isn't
> >> improving quality of education, it's promoting Christianity and keeping
> >> children away from "secular" ideologies in schools. Religious
> >> indoctrination
> >> instead of education, in other words.
> >>
(Australia) is that the leaders were hoping that within a Christian
environment that there would be a higher level of academic success as
compared with that, previously obtained in the Public school system.
The same attitude could have prevailed within the Homeschooling
movement.
<snip>
>
............This movement is advocating "death to the schools",
recommending that children
> should be either homeschooled or sent to Christian schools, and that Christians should
> take over school boards in order to promote Christian ideology. That has very little to do
> with the children supposedly getting a better education at home, and
> everything to do with religion.
>
> http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/schoolz.htm
>
The present sytem is advocating 'death to Christianity' by the
promotion of atheistic belief within the State system. That has an
agenda of teaching children of incidents when Christians in the past
have acted contrary to the spirit of Christ - the murder of Hypatia I
have seen in two texts used by students in public schools. It is also
demonstrated by the lack of mention of Christian beliefs when teaching
about the achievements of notable Christians, as if they had no
Christian convictions at all. Granted atheistic beliefs of those who
have contributed are also not mentioned. The asumption could be that
all contributors to a society had the same belief system - ie
secularism.
> Note that although the "more liberal" end of the movement has a "sprinkling"
> of Jews and Muslims, it is overwhelmingly Christian - how would these people
> feel if there was a mass movement of Muslims in the US, homeschooling their
> children in Islamic values and advocating the takeover of school boards to
> ensure that Muslim ideology was taught?
>
The American system was begun by Christians and in Australia, while the
first settlers were mainly convicts - yes, some for minor crimes -
there was a Christian influence.
If, however, you are desirous to spread the ideas of atheism what
better place to do it than through the school system with a very subtle
indoctrinatory process and a resolute determination that other
ideologies will be given, at most, unfavourable reference.
I have had close to seventy years contact with the public school
system. I had to experience
the downturn in standards in some schools, but attributed them to poor
teaching. The problem was deeper than that. It was poor teacher-
training. When politicians discuss the issues they do not give credit
to those of us who worked to improve the system from our own resources.
Therefore, I have an understanding of how some are willing to climb up
over others as they use public moneys to further their own position.
In respect of other religious beliefs when the multi-cultural
positions of students and their parents are concerned atheists have
seen this as a means to eradicate all mention of Christianity, while at
the same time promoting other religions, evidently to gain supporters.
.
Personally, I believe that CHRISTIANITY IS THE TRUE FAITH. I believe
that Christians need to resolve differences of opinion and to work to
promote a greater knowledge of the teachings of Jesus in the wider
community. Then it would be possible to see school education as the
means to make a living; home and community education as the means to
live one's life. There are many issues that need to be discussed. It is
not for those in Tertiary Teacher-training faculties to say, as one of
that fraternity has said to me, "We are working on a scheme so that we
will be the only ones able to teach the children."
Gladys Swager
Mark T
>>> http://www.honestedu.org/edlib/v1n5/lead.php
>>
>> Wow, He would havee us go back to the 1700s when there was no compulsory
>> schooling for children. It was up to each family to educate their
>> children as they saw fit and could afford. 90% of the population was
>> illiterate under this system.
>
> Marshall Fritz actually advocates the return of dame schools. And if you
> look a bit more closely at the "separation movement", the priority isn't
> improving quality of education, it's promoting christianity and keeping
> children away from "secular" ideologies in schools. Religious
> indoctrination instead of education, in other words.
Yep! Which brings me back to my main criticism of homeschooling ....
WHERE IS THE QUALITY CONTROL IN HOMESCHOOLING?
How does on ensure the very least gets a decent education?
Mark T
>> Why shouldn't parents teach their children the truths they find in
>> Christianity?
>
> No reason why they shouldn't. However, this movement is advocating "death
> to the schools", recommending that children should be either homeschooled
> or sent to Christian schools, and that Christians should take over school
> boards in order to promote Christian ideology. That has very little to do
> with the children supposedly getting a better education at home, and
> everything to do with religion.
>
> http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/schoolz.htm
>
> Note that although the "more liberal" end of the movement has a
> "sprinkling" of Jews and Muslims, it is overwhelmingly Christian - how
> would these people feel if there was a mass movement of Muslims in the US,
> homeschooling their children in Islamic values and advocating the takeover
> of school boards to ensure that Muslim ideology was taught?
... along with radical terrorist ideals ... and teaching kids to be suicide
bombers ....
If the SAME freedoms were given to terrorist groups as what the Christian
homeschoolers want there would be chaos! Freedom must be tempered by
responsibility.
Mark T
>> http://www.honestedu.org/edlib/v1n5/lead.php
>
> Wow, He would havee us go back to the 1700s when there was no compulsory
> schooling for children. It was up to each family to educate their children
> as they saw fit and could afford. 90% of the population was illiterate
> under this system.
Exactly! Universal literacy is a recent phenomenon.
Jani
>
> Jani wrote:
>> "s...@ozemail.com.au" <swa...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:1134037923.9...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Jani wrote:
>>
> <snip>
>> >>
>> > There are many more resources,
>> > commercial and ones that can be hand-made for lessons held at home, as
>> > parents desire them. The Internet gives an amazing amount of
>> > information. In that sense, homeschooling is an adjunct to the teaching
>> > in schools as pupils are required to research their assignment topics
>> > and after-school tutoring has expanded greatly since the late 1980's.
>>
>> Not all homes have computers or the Net, not all parents know how to
>> access
>> or create their own resources, and homeschooling is very different from
>> helping a child do research for homework projects. If the state system is
>> no
>> longer available, what sort of education will children get in homes where
>> parents know nothing about teaching and have no money for long-distance
>> learning resources, or private tutors? Not a lot. Theo is right.
>>
> The structure of school assignments is done in a way which requires the
> use of computers, either in the home or as community-based resources
> available through local government or private enterprise. There is no
> doubt that as time progresses that computers will be in most or all
> homes as telephones are now.
Which does not solve the problem of enforced homeschooling when computers
are *not* in "most or all homes", does it? Nor does it address the issue of
parents whose knowledge of IT is limited, not to mention parents who do not
know how to make or access *any* homeschooling resources, computerised or
otherwise, or even how to teach.
>>
> However, it is as fact that the Humanistic - secular leadership of
> John Dewey in America from the early 1900's to his death in 1952 did
> have adverse consequences in the education of many students. That was
> not only in the USA, but in other countries as well.
There were a lot of influences on education during that period, not only
Dewey.
> I am well aware of the deterioration in the behaviours of some children
> in the last 60 years, as compared with those of children in my own
> schooling.
And there are no other factors which affect behaviour, except for a
difference in schools? I think you'll find that if you look at complaints
about adolescent behaviour in *any* generation, they all follow much the
same pattern.
>>
>> >>(If you) look a bit more closely at the "separation movement", the
>> >>priority isn't
>> >> improving quality of education, it's promoting Christianity and
>> >> keeping
>> >> children away from "secular" ideologies in schools. Religious
>> >> indoctrination
>> >> instead of education, in other words.
> My understanding of the start of Christian Community schools in NSW
> (Australia) is that the leaders were hoping that within a Christian
> environment that there would be a higher level of academic success as
> compared with that, previously obtained in the Public school system.
> The same attitude could have prevailed within the Homeschooling
> movement.
Why should "being in a Christian environment" have anything to do with
academic success? A home environment which promotes academic learning does
not have to be Christian, and a Christian home does not necessarily have any
interest in academic learning.
>
> <snip>
>>
> ............This movement is advocating "death to the schools",
> recommending that children
>> should be either homeschooled or sent to Christian schools, and that
>> Christians should
>> take over school boards in order to promote Christian ideology. That has
>> very little to do
>> with the children supposedly getting a better education at home, and
>> everything to do with religion.
>>
>> http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/schoolz.htm
>>
> The present sytem is advocating 'death to Christianity' by the
> promotion of atheistic belief within the State system.
Nonsense. You might as well say it's advocating death to Judaism, Islam,
Wicca, Buddhism, etc. Schools teach *about* religion, they are not supposed
to *promote* religion.
That has an
> agenda of teaching children of incidents when Christians in the past
> have acted contrary to the spirit of Christ - the murder of Hypatia I
> have seen in two texts used by students in public schools.
So, what you're saying is that for every historical incident of christians
committing atrocities, there should be a disclaimer along the lines of "of
course, *real* christians don't do that". That's all well and good, but
don't you think it would slow down history lessons somewhat? Not to mention
that you'd have to issue the same disclaimer for every similar incident
perpetrated by other religions ...
It is also
> demonstrated by the lack of mention of Christian beliefs when teaching
> about the achievements of notable Christians, as if they had no
> Christian convictions at all. Granted atheistic beliefs of those who
> have contributed are also not mentioned. The asumption could be that
> all contributors to a society had the same belief system - ie
> secularism.
*scratches head* I don't know how a school could teach the history of
western art, science or philosophy *without* mentioning christianity. In
fact, it's a hell of a lot harder to introduce Islamic or Judaic influences,
because the entire default setting is that everything we teach nowadays was
the result of christian academic thought.
>
>> Note that although the "more liberal" end of the movement has a
>> "sprinkling"
>> of Jews and Muslims, it is overwhelmingly Christian - how would these
>> people
>> feel if there was a mass movement of Muslims in the US, homeschooling
>> their
>> children in Islamic values and advocating the takeover of school boards
>> to
>> ensure that Muslim ideology was taught?
>>
> The American system was begun by Christians and in Australia, while the
> first settlers were mainly convicts - yes, some for minor crimes -
> there was a Christian influence.
There wasn't an "American education system" to be begun by anyone. It
evolved, like most of their other social institutions. Although I'll grant
you, the Catholics had a head start. Australian settlers were christian, of
various persuasions, because there were very few people in Britain who
weren't.
> If, however, you are desirous to spread the ideas of atheism what
> better place to do it than through the school system with a very subtle
> indoctrinatory process and a resolute determination that other
> ideologies will be given, at most, unfavourable reference.
But schools are not interested in "spreading atheism". I've looked at some
of these howls about teaching medieval history, which is supposed to be
"anti christian", and wondered why christians are so determined to hide and
deny evidence of the christian past. You can't have it both ways. If you
want christian scientists and inventors and philosophers to be deliberately
marketed *as christian* in schools, then you also have to have christian
murderers and warmongerers marketed *as christian*. If that's not so
comfortable, then let schools get on with teaching the *facts*, as they're
supposed to do, and leave religion out of it.
>
> I have had close to seventy years contact with the public school
> system. I had to experience
> the downturn in standards in some schools, but attributed them to poor
> teaching. The problem was deeper than that. It was poor teacher-
> training. When politicians discuss the issues they do not give credit
> to those of us who worked to improve the system from our own resources.
> Therefore, I have an understanding of how some are willing to climb up
> over others as they use public moneys to further their own position.
Politicians are not generally interested in education, except inasmuch as it
furthers their own agenda.
> In respect of other religious beliefs when the multi-cultural
> positions of students and their parents are concerned atheists have
> seen this as a means to eradicate all mention of Christianity, while at
> the same time promoting other religions, evidently to gain supporters.
You give far too much credibility to "the atheists" as some sort of
organised movement. Most of them couldn't care at all which god someone
worships, let alone promoting one pantheon over another.
> .
>
> Personally, I believe that CHRISTIANITY IS THE TRUE FAITH.
That's fine, for you. OTHER PEOPLE DON'T.
I believe
> that Christians need to resolve differences of opinion and to work to
> promote a greater knowledge of the teachings of Jesus in the wider
> community. Then it would be possible to see school education as the
> means to make a living; home and community education as the means to
> live one's life.
There is absolutely *nothing* to stop any individual living their own life
according to christian principles. Love God, and love your neighbour. That's
it.
But somehow, almost everyone says "yeah but .." and promptly spends a lot of
time explaining why *everyone else* should do this and that, and the schools
should do this and that, and how "love" actually means "beat the neighbour
into submission, 'cos that's tough love" and so on, and so forth ...
There are many issues that need to be discussed. It is
> not for those in Tertiary Teacher-training faculties to say, as one of
> that fraternity has said to me, "We are working on a scheme so that we
> will be the only ones able to teach the children."
Not for you to say it either, Gladys.
Jani
Jani
"Mark T" <fl@out000236> wrote in message
news:4398b614$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> "Jani" wrote:
>
>>> Why shouldn't parents teach their children the truths they find in
>>> Christianity?
>>
>> No reason why they shouldn't. However, this movement is advocating "death
>> to the schools", recommending that children should be either homeschooled
>> or sent to Christian schools, and that Christians should take over school
>> boards in order to promote Christian ideology. That has very little to do
>> with the children supposedly getting a better education at home, and
>> everything to do with religion.
>>
>> http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/schoolz.htm
>>
>> Note that although the "more liberal" end of the movement has a
>> "sprinkling" of Jews and Muslims, it is overwhelmingly Christian - how
>> would these people feel if there was a mass movement of Muslims in the
>> US, homeschooling their children in Islamic values and advocating the
>> takeover of school boards to ensure that Muslim ideology was taught?
>
> ... along with radical terrorist ideals ... and teaching kids to be
> suicide bombers ....
Oy. That was not an opening for anti-Islamic comments, Mark. My point was
that discomfort about *other people's ideas* being taught as the norm in
schools works both ways.
Jani
Theo Bekkers
> Marshall Fritz actually advocates the return of dame schools. And if
> you look a bit more closely at the "separation movement", the
> priority isn't improving quality of education, it's promoting
> christianity and keeping children away from "secular" ideologies in
> schools. Religious indoctrination instead of education, in other
> words.
That is also my limited experience with home-schoolers. From what I've seen
it is about withholding 'bad' information from children, not expanding their
knowledge and experience.
Theo
Wayne
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>the National Education Association (NEA) has already formulated the game
>plan for state control of all homeschooling. For the last several years
>during their biannual conventions, the NEA has passed formal homeschooling
>resolutions demanding that:
>
>. Teachers of home instruction programs should meet state certification
>requirements.
So only state certified teachers may teach.
>. Authorized state or local permission should be required annually for home
>study.
>. Home study should be monitored by local school administrative personnel
>knowledgeable about excellence in the teaching-learning environment.
>. Students should participate in state or locally mandated testing programs
>in suitable settings and in other assessments conducted by the school
>district.
Which is already the case in Pennsylvania and other states in the US.
If the results were deplorable I'm sure the school establishment would
ring alarm bells.
But they aren't because 't ain't so.
So what are you complaining about?
>. Students should have the option of attending public school for part-time
>instruction. They should be counted in the average daily membership (ADM)
>without proration
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>I totally support this sensible policy to ensure quality education for every
>child.
Of course you do because only state certified teachers may teach,
effectively destroying homeschooling.
>How would homeschoolers ENSURE the quality control of education for
>individual students otherwise?
The same way it done for guvm't schools. If the (responsible) parents
perceive that the school is failing their children they make
corrections. Either find and correct what has gone wrong between the
school and their child or, failing in that, try something (private,
parochial, or homeschool) else. I have yet to hear of a case where the
public school has admitted it's failing a child and recomend that the
child be educated elsewhere.
A parent who has taken the time to homeschool and is not succeeding
will take their child back to a school setting --- this I have seen.
In the end the parent is responsible for the child.
Wayne
.......................................................................
"Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief
in freedom itself." -Milton Friedman
Mark T
>>the National Education Association (NEA) has already formulated the game
>>plan for state control of all homeschooling. For the last several years
>>during their biannual conventions, the NEA has passed formal homeschooling
>>resolutions demanding that:
>>
>>. Teachers of home instruction programs should meet state certification
>>requirements.
>
> So only state certified teachers may teach.
...
> .....only state certified teachers may teach,
> effectively destroying homeschooling.
... but they will be parents teaching at home.
This will ensure quality education in homeschooling.
Where is the quality control in homeschooling now? There isn't any!
>>How would homeschoolers ENSURE the quality control of education for
>>individual students otherwise?
>
> If the (responsible) parents
What about the irresponsible parents who homeschool? Where is the quality
control for them?
> In the end the parent is responsible for the child.
In the end the government is responsible to both ensure ALL children have a
minimum education and to protect the rights of the child.
Mark T
>>> Note that although the "more liberal" end of the movement has a
>>> "sprinkling" of Jews and Muslims, it is overwhelmingly Christian - how
>>> would these people feel if there was a mass movement of Muslims in the
>>> US, homeschooling their children in Islamic values and advocating the
>>> takeover of school boards to ensure that Muslim ideology was taught?
>>
>> ... along with radical terrorist ideals ... and teaching kids to be
>> suicide bombers ....
>
> Oy. That was not an opening for anti-Islamic comments, Mark. My point was
> that discomfort about *other people's ideas* being taught as the norm in
> schools works both ways.
It wasn't intended as anti-Islamic and I agree with your point.
Let's try other examples.
The homeschooling radical fundamentalist Christian who teaches his / her
kids to blow up abortion clinics in the name of Jesus.
The homeschooling meth addict who who teaches his / her children how to make
meth in their "science lab".
The homeschooling sadist who helps his / her children do vivisection for
biology lessons.
If there is NO supervision of homeschooling ANYTHING is possible.
Do these parents above have the same freedom to teach as they want ... or
does that only apply to some homeschoolers???????
Wayne
>
>In the end the government is responsible to both ensure ALL children have a
>minimum education and to protect the rights of the child.
Hhmmm, -- so how's that working for them?
Wayne
Jean-Paul Turcaud
>>"carole" <hubbc...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>>news:1134178850.1...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> Jean-Paul Turcaud wrote:
>>>> You better spend your holiday between Xmas & New Year 's Eve at Cudal,
>>>> NSW
>>> Do you think this is the best place Jean-Paul? I did a search and got
>>> the following information from
Carole,
Cudal is certainly a place where life will be preserved.
If I was in living somewhere near Australia East coast*, this is certainly
a place where I would move to spend the New Year's Eve.
I am certain that the CSIRO 's information on the data gathered on the
nearest faults due East of Sydney will never be released..... for not
affecting the population, and especially not upsetting the business during
the festive season.
The fact that 3 million people lives all along Australia's Eastern border
are in the balance now, and most likely to go overboard into the worse
nightmare in the whole of Australia History, is no concern of those people.
Look what happened last year on Winter Solstice too in Thailand, India and
so on ! Although they had early warning of the coming tsunami none of those
"Responsible" instances did anything at all.
... so it will be for Australia ... although the up to 200 km subsea faults
are damned active now, nothing has filtered to the Medias.Why ? Simply
because all those alleged Scientists are completely clueless for once,
secondly have no conviction of their own.and finally are gutless like all
the Goys & that carrion feeding Humanity.
I will issue in time some advice to some of the people able to follow them
and save their lives indeed. By the way do you know that young children have
the ability to hear the noise of the coming Quakes over 2 hours ahead ??? It
happened in a Caucasian Quake recently where the youngest class & there
mistress in a school complex was saved by the young children fear ! ...
while all the older kids were flattened in the crushing of their school.
Young children of say 3 to 7 are not afraid to voice their feeling still not
as yet fully conditioned by the spiritual depleting training called
Education. Those who will survive the coming 9.2 Sydney Quake could be saved
by their younger child. Do you know by example that the Royal Family of
Portugal on the 1st of November 1755 was saved by the youngest daughter. She
was adamant that the family should spend the day in one the country property
and the King & Queen of Portugal went to early mass since they dearly loved
their daughter, and had left Lisbon by 8 am. The Huge Lisbon Quake stuck at
9:20 and the court was then 10 miles away.
See ?
Also in late time evacuation from Sydney ( or from Naples since this is as
well programmed soon ) people should not use their cars .... they will get
nowhere then because of the traffic jams. Only use bikes, motorbikes and of
course walking. A normal walking stride will get you out of danger in 2
hours flat, i.e. to above 150ft & further than 10 miles.
Hectic days ahead for Australia indeed !
With best regards
* as Australia greatest and only alive now Mining Pioneer, I am banned from
Australia by the Mining & Political Criminals leading it. A very real set up
indicating to what ever low that poor country has fallen !
--
Jean-Paul Turcaud
True Geologist
Founder of the True Geology
~~ Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
tj
news:s95ip1pr05nd8jt7j...@4ax.com...
> The same way it done for guvm't schools. If the (responsible) parents
> perceive that the school is failing their children they make
> corrections. Either find and correct what has gone wrong between the
> school and their child or, failing in that, try something (private,
> parochial, or homeschool) else. I have yet to hear of a case where the
> public school has admitted it's failing a child and recomend that the
> child be educated elsewhere.
>
I'm sure there many things you have yet to hear of Wayne, my lad, including
the correct spelling of government. :)
Schools do that all the time, especially in the case of special ed students.
We are trying to convince the parents of one of my students that our school
is not the best place for their child to be educated.
The problem is, what exactly constitutes failure on the part of public
schools?
--
Saludos y chaufas,
tj
profe's Web pages: http://webtj.net
Wayne
>The problem is, what exactly constitutes failure on the part of public
>schools?
Or for the homeschooled?
Wayne
Mark T
>>The problem is, what exactly constitutes failure on the part of public
>>schools?
>
> Or for the homeschooled?
There is no universal quality control in homeschooling and the only
minimal control available homeschoolers want taken away.
With freedom from all quality control taken away think of the
possibilities:
Wayne
>"Wayne" wrote:
>
>>>The problem is, what exactly constitutes failure on the part of public
>>>schools?
>>
>> Or for the homeschooled?
>
>
>There is no universal quality control in homeschooling and the only
>minimal control available homeschoolers want taken away.
>
>With freedom from all quality control taken away think of the
>possibilities:
>
>The homeschooling radical fundamentalist Christian who teaches his / her
>kids to blow up abortion clinics in the name of Jesus.
The state controlled school that produces "brownshirts".
>The homeschooling meth addict who who teaches his / her children how to make
>meth in their "science lab".
The state controlled school that supplies the "cannon fodder".
>The homeschooling sadist who helps his / her children do vivisection for
>biology lessons.
The state controlled school that puts out an entire generation of
mediocrity.
>If there is NO supervision of homeschooling ANYTHING is possible.
State controlled "QC" of a state controlled entity means ANYTHING is
possible.
Gee Mark, anybody can play this game.
>Do these parents above have the same freedom to teach as they want ... or
>does that only apply to some homeschoolers???????
So you think some should be more free than others? Interesting ----
where have I heard something similar to that before?
Wayne
........................................................
If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people
what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
tj
That is the question. What constitutes failure?
Wayne
>"Wayne" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
>news:6qnmp1tpk2h1vs3qr...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:38:29 -0600, "tj" <t...@tj.cjb.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The problem is, what exactly constitutes failure on the part of public
>>>schools?
>>
>> Or for the homeschooled?
>>
>
>That is the question. What constitutes failure?
Just watched "It's a Wonderful Life" --- 'no man is a failure who has
friends.'
http://www.failuremag.com/arch_arts_its_a_wonderful_life.html
Fleas navidad,
Wayne
Mike Stone
news:b_WdnbjvLrMkXQXe...@pipex.net...
>
> Oy. That was not an opening for anti-Islamic comments, Mark. My point was
> that discomfort about *other people's ideas* being taught as the norm in
> schools works both ways.
>
And sometimes in unexpected ones. A Sister at my (Latter-day Saint) Church
had most interesting tale to tell about her 11yo sion, who had recently
started Secondary School.
It's a Mormon custom to fast one day in each month and give an offering
(notionally the price of the skipped meals) toward relief of needy membersof
the Ward. Children are generally initiated into this practice a step at a
time, and her son had got as far as going without breakfast on a Fast
Sunday. However, he was/is an active child with a healthy appetite, and
seemed in no great hurry to take things any further.
Then, toward the end of September, he comes home from school, gives Mum the
usual perfunctory peck on the cheek, and announces, totally out of the blue,
that henceforth he intends to keep his Fast all day.
Mum was gratified, but more than a little curious as to what had triggered
this change of attitude. Had other kids at church been giving him a hard
time about it? Tactful questioning revealed that peer pressure was indeed
involved, but of a very different kind. It turned out that her son's
acquaintances at his new school included a sizeable contingent of _Moslem_
kids, who were then observing Ramadan. And I'm sure you won't be surprised
to learn that with _them_ there was no question of anything less than a
full, all-day Fast. None of your cissy half measures. Her boy (who has a
distinct competitive streak in his nature) clearly disliked the implication
that this lot were either tougher than himself or more conscientious. Hence
his decision.
Talk about the Law of unintended (or at least unexpected) consequences.
--
Mike Stone - Peterborough, England
"To be good is noble.
To teach others to be good is yet nobler - and far less trouble."
Mark Twain