Complaint of offensive photo
Christina
http://www.worth1000.com/cache/gallery/contestcache.asp?contest_id=2510&display=photoshop
I wrote protesting it and got back this email from the owner of the site -
"I agree with you, that is very distasteful. Unfortunately it's our
policy not to censor our artists free expression rights beyond what's
specified on our rules, so my hands are tied, but I do encourage you to
voice your opinions to the artist if you feel strongly enough about it."
The "artist" can't be contacted without registering which I didn't want to
do. I emailed the site back and said their policy was a cop-out.
Maybe if they hear enough complaints, something will be done.
In Christ,
Christina
:::vera:::
"Christina" <c_bru...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:2Nn7c.286006$jH.40...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
Hi Christina (German?),
welcome here first. Yes, I think it is terrible, you are right.
But people who do not know about Jesus will not understand.
For them, He is only a person in history about who they can
joke. He is not Holy to them as He is to us.
I do not think it is a good idea to take actions against those
people. They simply do not know what they are doing...
And even they can be forgiven.
I have personally decided to go a different way: I want to
be the light in the darkness, and the salt of this world. Jesus
did not tell us to act against them. But the picture offends, you
are right, of course, and your question is a good one.
My answer: I would like to go and show something better (which
is a bit different in this group nowadays, too, I must admit).
But maybe others will have some better ideas than me?
Sisterly Love,
:::vera:::
--
::::::::::::Where Jesus is Lord:::::::::::::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::vera:::
":::vera:::" <ver...@acc-growing-deeper.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:c3l8tp$27uli1$1...@ID-223228.news.uni-berlin.de...
Addition:
Yes, I will write a complaint to them! That is a good idea!
Everybody should do that!!!
:-)
I will just go and do it... I will tell them that I would order the next
power tool there, but as they seem not to like Christians as their
clients...
Okay?
:::vera:::
"Christina" <c_bru...@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:2Nn7c.286006$jH.40...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
That is what I wrote to them:
Dear Madam or Sir,
I need a new power tool soon. I came to your website, which I like much, but I was shocked to see the picture of Jesus, which shows
no taste at all. I am a Christian, and many other people are, too. Do you really think you can get clients with such a picture?
I recommend and kindly ask you to take it away, as the other pics are really very well made. The page takes much time to load
anyway.
Thanks for reading.
Kind regards,
V.Six
Christina
I think it does need to be addressed. If we were more like the Jews or
Moslems, we would complain about any insult loudly and people would be
careful not to insult us. In that way, we should be more like them. If our
faith means anything to us, we should defend it. If insults were posted
against our mothers or children, wouldn't we feel morally obligated to speak
up?
Thanks, everyone,
Christina
http://www.ccbrundage.net/saints/
http://www.ccbrundage.net/
http://www.thecelticplanet.com/
Mark and Bev Tindall
> I wanted to alert you to a blasphemous photo posted on a site -
>
http://www.worth1000.com/cache/gallery/contestcache.asp?contest_id=2510&display=photoshop
Hello! They are works of art.
Or are you only complaining about the Jesus photo???
You need to learn about ART!!!!
A memorable story about Michelangelo the Christian painter. The following
extract comes from Vasari's "Lives of The Artists" (Translated by George
Bull, Penguin; Middlesex, England: 1965; p. 379)
*****************************
To return to the Last Judgement: Michelangelo had already finished more than
three~fourths of the work when Pope Paul went to see it. On this occasion
Biagio da Cesena, the master of ceremonies and a very high-minded person,
happened to be with the Pope in the chapel and was asked what he thought of
the painting. He answered that it was most disgraceful that in so sacred a
place there should have been depicted all those nude figures, exposing
themselves so shamefully, and that it was no work for a papal chapel but
rather for the public baths and taverns. Angered by this comment,
Michelangelo determined he would have his revenge; and as soon as Biagio had
left he drew his portrait frorn memory in the figure of Minos, shown with a
great serpent curled around his legs, among a heap of devils in hell; nor
for all his pleading with the Pope and Michelangelo could Biagio have the
figure removed, and it was left, to record the incident, as it is today.
****
Silly little person!
Yours in Christ
MARK
Mark and Bev Tindall
> This group was founded by Max Borisoff and Larry Pearson Below is the
> message they gave about it
>
> Thank you so very much for the clear gusher of the Gospel.
> The Lord has blessed us by helping us to establish Christnet
> in His Name. We also keep it wide-open, for all the users on
> the Internet, believers and unbelievers alike.
>
> Oh, yes we expect some atheists to come and muddy the clear
> stream of His Gospel. But such were we, before Christ found
> us.
>
> So we welcome, one and all. This is why believers such
> as you are so important. You can lay down the straight stick
> along side their twisted one. You can pour the clear water of
> the Gospel into the muddy river of doubt and unbelief which they
> are likely to spill.
>
> But Paul reminds us not to be too proud. "What can we boast
> about? Everything we have, has come as a gift of God's Grace."
#######################################################
Now THINK ....WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?????
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We also keep it wide-open, for all the users on the Internet, believers and
unbelievers alike.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We also keep it wide-open, for all the users on the Internet, believers and
unbelievers alike.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We also keep it wide-open, for all the users on the Internet, believers and
unbelievers alike.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Repeated 3 times to get the message across!!!!
####################################################
From Os Guinness, an evangelical Christian, "Fit Bodies, Fat Minds: Why
Evangelicals don't think and what to do about it" ( Baker Books; Grand
Rapids:1994)
p. 143
A fourth misconception concerns the idea that thinking Christianly is a form
of uniformity - in other words, that if we all think Christianly we will all
think the same way. When this happens, the goal of thinking Christianly
collapses into a frantic search for the one particular correct way of
thinking or acting. The result is he fallacy of "particularism", the
uniformity of a particular "Christianly Correct" way of thinking.
...[particularism] denies two requirements of thinking Christianly that
oppose all uniformity: the importance of diversity and the fact of human
fallibility.
p. 143 - 144
For another thing, applying the idea of uniformity is disastrous because it
leads inevitably to legalism and judgementalism. There is only a short and
easy step from "This is the Christian way" to "There is only one Christian
way" to "Anything different from this Christian way is not Christian" to
"All those who differ from my way are not Christians".
#############################################################
Romans 12: 2 "Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let
God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you
will know what God wants you to do, and you will know how good and pleasing
and perfect his will really is."
Notice the word "THINK". It is a change of thinking not an abandonment of
thinking. The end result is a KNOWING ...which involves thinking.
Being "spiritual" does not mean that one abandon's one's God-given brain.
I Corinthians 10:4 -5 " ...for the weapons of our warfare are NOT WORLDLY
but have DIVINE POWER TO DESTROY STRONGHOLDS. WE DESTROY ARGUMENTS AND
EVERY PROUD OBSTACLE TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, AND TAKE EVERY THOUGHT CAPTIVE
to obey Christ ..."
##########################
From Paul Tournier - "The Person Reborn" (SCM Press, London:1967)
p. 101 "The spirit of dogmatism ossifies thought and sterilizes life. The
person who is satisfied with one experience loses the dissatisfaction which
could be the source of fresh experiences."
p. 107 "The spirit of dogmatism simplifies, opposes, and systematizes. The
philosophical spirit has a sense of endless complexity of things."
p. 211 (Quoting St Augustine) "Love God, and do as you please."
################################################
"They came after the Jews, and I was not a Jew, so I did not object.
They came after the Catholics, and I was not a Catholic, so I did not
object. They came after the trade unionists, and I was not a trade
unionists, so I did not object. Then they came after me and there was
nobody left to object." - Rev. Martin Niemoeller
SELAH!
Mark and Bev Tindall
Griz's putrid stinking fleshy maggot infested demonic fruit has been:
- his subjective assumption that he has the gift of discernment
- his subjective assumption that he is a leader
- his subjective assumption that his cult's guidelines for this
unmoderated newsgroup were "God given"
- his subjective assumption that Christians should all be his clone
- his subjective assumption that diversity is not part of God's kingdom
- his insipid tone of superiority to all other Christians as though they do
not also have access to God
- his demonising of other Christians
Griz listened to the wrong demonic spirit in his vision for ACC which was
not of God.
Griz's demonic discernment was faulty when he alienated many Christians whom
he did not agree with.
Griz keeps demonically rambling on inanely about flesh and demons but uses
his own flesh and manisfests his own demons daily in silly little demonic
posts condoning his horrid actions of the past.
Griz does not understand the Christian mercy shown to him by the Christian
victims whom he demonises.
Griz is a sick man who needs help. He cannot get help when he wrongly
assumes that he is well.
sensible2me
Christina <c_bru...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2Nn7c.286006$jH.40...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
Hi Christine,
I saw the picture and I suppose the marks on the body portray this man as a
wanna be Jesus in the "Passion of Christ" movie. Anyway that's what I
gathered. It's not Jesus though nor is about him.
It's just an artistic use of power tools. I wasn't the least bit offended.
I don't understand how it could be offensive when it's not him or about the
real Jesus. Do you truly think it's Jesus?
If we were so easily offended by pictures, the pictures of God with the long
white hair & beard with the look of raging fury would be disgusting to me
cause as a child this is what I was taught as God being so angry that I
couldn't do anything right no matter what I did.
Of course I realize today that it is not God but is someones mental
picture that was manifested outward on paper and so many followed the idea
that it is still very much a picture in many peoples mind.
If only I were taught this is a picture, it is not the real thing.
So that is how I see that picture you found offensive. It's not the real
thing. It's just a picture and probably not something I would think of but
since the movie is so popular the artist thought it would make an impression
and it certainly did for you.. We cannot control other peoples mind pictures
cause if we could I would erase every picture of God that portrays him as
old, mean and ugly.
> Thanks,
sensible2me
>
alexiastation
beth
"Christina" <c_bru...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2Nn7c.286006$jH.40...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
Pastor Dave
<c_bru...@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
That is pretty bad. Although if He came today for the
first time, that's probably what would happen. Sad,
isn't it?
--
ą Pastor Dave Raymond ą
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
Don't put a question mark where God put a period.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Christina
(besides emailing the "artist"). Here is what he finally sent back -
Christina,
I talked about it with my staff and we agreed that if the artist was
amenable to it being removed, we would remove it. I hope you'll accept
that compromise. For us it means we aren't censoring anything, for
those
who found it offensive it might possibly mean that the image is
removed.
We'll wait and see what the artist says.
Take care,
Avi
--
"Pastor Dave" <nospam*-*pastor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:j3lt50dd23m2p1pp3...@4ax.com...
Mark and Bev Tindall
> I have emailed back and forth several times with the owner of the site
> (besides emailing the "artist").
I have emailed the owner of the site congratulating him on not censoring the
image.
WHY CENSOR ART??????
Why do brain dead fundamentalists who are not artists impose their
restricting suffocating narrow subjective view of "art" upon real
artists??????? "Hypocrite" and "fool" are totally appropriate terms to
describe such ignorant Christians.
Censorship is looking at art and "suppressing parts deemed objectionable on
moral, political, military, or other grounds" including "spiritual" grounds!
(Macquarie Dictionary).
If I (a Christian artist) find your posts objectionable why shouldn't I have
the SAME right as you to censor your printed words?????
Titus 1:15 - "To the pure ALL THINGS are pure, but to the corrupt and
unbelieving nothing is pure; their very MINDS and CONSCIENCES are corrupted.
They PROFESS TO KNOW GOD, but they DENY HIM BY THEIR DEEDS; they are
detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed."
Colossians 2: 22 - 23 - "Why do you submit to regulations, "DO NOT HANDLE,
Do not taste, DO NOT TOUCH" (referring to things that all perish as they are
used) according to HUMAN PRECEPTS and DOCTRINES? These have indeed an
APPEARANCE of WISDOM in PROMOTING RIGOR OF DEVOTION and SELF-ABASEMENT and
severity to the body, but they are of NO VALUE in checking the indulgence of
the flesh.
Pastor Dave
<c_bru...@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
>I have emailed back and forth several times with the owner of the site
>(besides emailing the "artist"). Here is what he finally sent back -
>
>Christina,
>
>I talked about it with my staff and we agreed that if the artist was
>amenable to it being removed, we would remove it. I hope you'll accept
>that compromise. For us it means we aren't censoring anything, for
>those
>who found it offensive it might possibly mean that the image is
>removed.
>We'll wait and see what the artist says.
Okeday. :)
--
ą Pastor Dave Raymond ą
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"In fact, there is a great deal more to the
creation/evolution controversy than meets the eye,
or rather than meets the carefully cultivated media
stereotype of 'creationists' as Bible quoting know
nothings who refuse to face up to the scientific
evidence. The creationists may be wrong about many
things, but they have at least one very important
point to argue, a point that has been thoroughly
obscured by all the attention paid to Noah's Flood
and other side issues. What science educators
propose to teach as 'evolution' and label it as fact,
is based not upon any incontrovertible empirical
evidence (scientifically proven facts, ed.), but upon
a highly controversial philosophical presupposition.
The controversy over evolution is therefore not going
to go away as people become better educated on the
subject. On the contrary, the more people learn
about the philosophical content of what scientists
are calling the 'fact of evolution', the less they
are going to like it." - Philip E. Johnson, Evolution
as Dogma: The Establishment of Naturalism
alexiastation
"Mark and Bev Tindall" <m_b_t...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:405f...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> "Christina" wrote:
>
> > I have emailed back and forth several times with the owner of the site
> > (besides emailing the "artist").
>
>
> I have emailed the owner of the site congratulating him on not censoring
the
> image.
>
> WHY CENSOR ART??????
>
Why? Because that to me is a Holy Image, it depicts Yeshua, it says to me
that it is making fun of He who suffered; for, so much love and compassion
to the one who painted that picture and to you and me.
I see nothing wrong with art but where is the line drawn for art? What is
immoral or aweful and what is considered art? Would your wife naked in a
huge painting on your front lawn be art? Would you find that objectionable?
I think you would, so why shouldn't I find it objectionable to see Thy Holy
Mikita as a joke under the nailing of my savior!
It is wrong and is in bad taste! I also don't see myself as brain dead, and
psst I am not a Christian ;)
Beth
Mark and Bev Tindall
> > I have emailed the owner of the site congratulating him on not censoring
>> the image.
> >
> > WHY CENSOR ART??????
>
> Why? Because that to me is a Holy Image, it depicts Yeshua, it says to me
> that it is making fun of He who suffered; for, so much love and compassion
> to the one who painted that picture and to you and me.
I think the photo in question it is like Lenny Bruce saying that if Jesus
were here in the flesh today he would be killed and the symbol of
Christianity would be the electric chair.
The photo depicts Jesus being nailed to the cross with a nail gun. If Jesus
had been crucified today they probably would have used a nail gun because of
its economuic efficiency.
> I see nothing wrong with art but where is the line drawn for art?
from Franky Scaheffer's "Sham Pearls For Real Swine: Beyond the Cultural
Dark Age (Wolgemuth & Hyatt; Brentwood , Tennesse: 1990) [Son of
fundamentalist theologian Francis A Schaeffer]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
p. 27 -28
The arts ask hard questions. Art incinerates polyester / velvet dreams of
inner healing and cheap grace. Art hurts, slaps and defines. Art is
interested in truth: in bad words spoken by bad people, in good words spoken
by good people, in sin and goodness, in life, sex, birth, colopur, texture,
death, love, hate, nature, man, religion, music, God, fire, water and air.
Art tears down, builds up, and redefines. Art is uncomfortable.
Good art (which, among other things, means truth-telling art) is good in
itself, even when it is about bad things. All art is in a sense an icon -
an image of man who is created in God's image; a testament to the fact that
the physical world has been redeemed by the incarnation of Christ. Good art
expresses an interest in everything. Art, like the Bible, is not defined by
one period of history. Art explores immorality and immortality. There are
no taboo subjects for good art, any more than there is taboo news for
newspapers, because art is unafraid of the truth. Art, like Christ, comes
to sinners in an imperfect world. People who imagine themselves to be
perfect do not like at. The middle-class church, living in a cocoon of
false expectations, resents people who weild sharp razor blades or worse,
disturb their sleep. Art is fleshly yet eternal. Art is human. Art is a
mirror to the world. Art is the bridge between flesh and soul. "Art is
science in the flesh," as jean Cocteau wrote in Le Rappel a L'Orde.
Because art destroys a false sense of security, it is looked on with
suspeicion, even perceived as the enemy by the middle class and its
spokespersons in the church, who, through ignorance, subdue artists and
discourage talent. "Do not offend yiour brother" is a Bible verse often
misused to intimidate the same way as "turn the other cheek" is sometimes
taken out of biblical context to justify "Christian" pacificism. There is a
bible verse handily available for every tyrannical cuase, to be exploited by
those who use the Bible as an idealogical weapon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Art has its own meaning as God's creation; it does not need justification.
it's justification is being a God-given possibility." - H R R Rookmaaker
> What is immoral or aweful and what is considered art?
All subjects are able to be used by the artist ... including the immoral and
awful. This is included in the bible's injunction "whatever is TRUE ...
think about these things." (Phillipians 4:8)
> Would your wife naked in a huge painting on your front lawn be art?
It could be.
Could a couple having sex be the subject of a work of art? Yes! The
Christin artist depicted just that in the "The Great Bed"!
Could a old person urinating be a subject for a work of art? Yes! The
Christian artist Rembrandt drew a series of sketches on it!
Rembrandt was the first Christian artist to feature Chruist at the centre of
all his work. Remabrandt also painted himself at the foot of the cross -
helpoing to raise it -in "The Raising of the Cross" thus acknowledging his
own sin.
I previously posted the anger of the Christian Michelangelo at the attempt
to censor his work in the Sistine Chapel as it was considered obscene. Hisd
contemporary Vasari wrote: "There are many kings but only one Michelangelo!"
> Would you find that objectionable?
No. The nude is a great theme within art. Read
- The Nude - Kenneth Clark
- Ways of Seeing - John Berger
> I think you would, so why shouldn't I find it objectionable to see Thy
Holy
> Mikita as a joke under the nailing of my savior!
If you understood art you would not object.
> It is wrong and is in bad taste!
I disagree as a Christian artist. My Christian art has constantly been
banned over the last 30 years by pietist Christians who do not understand
art. My new novel will be a shocker ... as will the illustrations!
CHRISTIAN READING LIST ON VISUAL ART (Painting / Photography)
Hans R Rookmaaker
- Art Needs No Justification
- Modern Art and the Death of A Culture
- The Creative Gift: The Arts and the Christian Life
Francis A Schaeffer
- Art and the Bible
Franky Schaeffer
- Sham Pearls for Real Swine: Beyond the Cultural Dark Age
- Addicted to Mediocrity: 20th Century Christians and the Arts
Vasari
- Lives of The Painters
J R R Tolkein
- Tree and Leaf (by Niggle)
The Letters of Vincent Van Gogh
Albert J Lublin
- Stranger On Earth: Vincent Van Gogh
:::vera:::
alexiastation
":::vera:::" <ver...@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in message
news:c3unv5$202ioe$3...@ID-223228.news.uni-berlin.de...
alexiastation
I have seen art all over the world, from Russian to all over Germany to the
US and I can say none of it was offensive to me as this picture, you see
nothing wrong with the statement Thy Holy Mikita? If Yeshua was nailed to a
cross today? He wasn't, it was a long time ago. You can like it if you wish,
we can agree to disagree on it. I will not hold it against you in any way.
For me though, I didn't like it.
Blessings, :)
Beth
Mark and Bev Tindall
> I have seen art all over the world, from Russian to all over Germany to
the
> US and I can say none of it was offensive to me as this picture.
We can agree to differ. This should be a good example to Vera. We don't
have to agree on everything to be part of ACC and to dialogue together. We
don't have to rip each other's heads off and say "You must be a clone of me
or I'll never talk to you! You don't know anything about God, you heathen!"
;-)
> you see nothing wrong with the statement Thy Holy Mikita?
To me, it is a satire about the nail gun and not about the Messiah.