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NO MEDUICAL EVIDENCE FOR WOMMACK MIRACLE - PROOF OF FRAUD!!!!
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I
Dec 23, 2010, 8:25:23 PM12/23/10
to
bachman
Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 4:57 pm:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was going to do a book/article about Andrew Wommack and he was interested
in the idea. I got a call from one of his representatives and I said, "For
years, Andrew has told these amazing stories and the idea that his son was
raised from the dead -- that must have been front-page news and I want to
get the documentation for that."
Well, the fellow admitted there IS NONE. There was no death certificate.
Andrew's son had overdosed and the "doctor pronounced him dead, put him in
the hospital morgue and put a toe-tag on him."
The rest of the story is how Andrew says---he and his wife Jamie went to the
hospital and prayed for their son who "rose off the table and came back from
the dead."
Hmmmm.
The fellow on the phone said that the doctors won't be interviewed because
they don't want to be portrayed as wrongly calling someone dead who wasn't
dead (in their eyes) or having to admit someone was raised from the dead.
Overall, very sad and I wonder how many other "miracles"are really
"misunderstandings."
from http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/31787.html?1190938606
the salad
Dec 23, 2010, 10:12:46 PM12/23/10
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On Dec 23, 5:25 pm, "I" <VeraSixmystalkerandtr...@home182.com> wrote:
Mark you said there was proof of fraud. Well where is it? Should we
just assume that claims you make are false?
Peter B.
Dec 24, 2010, 1:00:22 AM12/24/10
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Where is the fraud?
I
Dec 24, 2010, 1:10:10 AM12/24/10
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"Peter B." wrote:
##########################################################
#########################################################
> Where is the fraud?
There was NO MIRACLE.
It was doctor's MISDIAGNOSIS!!!
NO DEATH CERTIFICATE!!!!
The doctor made a mistake and put a live person in the morgue.
It ISN'T a miracle.
NO MEDICAL PROOF - NO DEATH CERTIFICATE.
FRAUD - NO MIRACLE.
A MISDIAGNOSIS IS NOT A MIRACLE!!!!!
What don't you understand about that?
Peter B.
Dec 24, 2010, 1:31:10 AM12/24/10
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Where was the fraud? Can't you read?
I
Dec 24, 2010, 1:37:13 AM12/24/10
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"Peter B." wrote:
###########################################
> Where was the fraud?
The FRAUD is attributing a MIRACLE to a MEDICAL MISDIAGNOSIS!!!!
Can't you read? Oh, I forgot, you have dyslexia!!!!
Peter B.
Dec 24, 2010, 1:46:42 AM12/24/10
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You a college trained edjucamater don't know the definition of fraud.
I
Dec 24, 2010, 2:24:55 AM12/24/10
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"Peter B." wrote:
>> There was NO MIRACLE.
>> It was doctor's MISDIAGNOSIS!!!
>> NO DEATH CERTIFICATE!!!!
>> The doctor made a mistake and put a live person in the morgue.
>> It ISN'T a miracle.
>> NO MEDICAL PROOF - NO DEATH CERTIFICATE.
>> FRAUD - NO MIRACLE.
>> A MISDIAGNOSIS IS NOT A MIRACLE!!!!!
...
> You a college trained edjucamater don't know the definition of fraud.
But an ignorant uneducated fundamentalist like you does?
PIGS MIGHT FY!!!!!!!
Fraud is something intended to deceive.
You have been DECEIVED by Wommack Ministries.
The deception is substituting a medical misdiagnosis for a miracle.
That is fraud!
Peter B.
Dec 24, 2010, 2:54:46 AM12/24/10
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On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 18:24:55 +1100, I wrote:
> "Peter B." wrote:
>
>>> There was NO MIRACLE.
>>> It was doctor's MISDIAGNOSIS!!!
>>> NO DEATH CERTIFICATE!!!!
>>> The doctor made a mistake and put a live person in the morgue.
>>> It ISN'T a miracle.
>>> NO MEDICAL PROOF - NO DEATH CERTIFICATE.
>>> FRAUD - NO MIRACLE.
>>> A MISDIAGNOSIS IS NOT A MIRACLE!!!!!
> ...
>> You a college trained edjucamater don't know the definition of fraud.
>
> But an ignorant uneducated fundamentalist like you does?
>
> PIGS MIGHT FY!!!!!!!
>
Mr. Educator, what does FY mean?
> Fraud is something intended to deceive.
>
> You have been DECEIVED by Wommack Ministries.
>
> The deception is substituting a medical misdiagnosis for a miracle.
>
> That is fraud!
And you know it is intended? How, on hearsay?
How do you know it as a misdiagnoses? Proof?
the salad
Dec 24, 2010, 2:57:51 AM12/24/10
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On Dec 23, 11:24 pm, "I" <VeraSixmystalkerandtr...@home196.com> wrote:
> "Peter B." wrote:
> >> There was NO MIRACLE.
> >> It was doctor's MISDIAGNOSIS!!!
> >> NO DEATH CERTIFICATE!!!!
> >> The doctor made a mistake and put a live person in the morgue.
> >> It ISN'T a miracle.
> >> NO MEDICAL PROOF - NO DEATH CERTIFICATE.
> >> FRAUD - NO MIRACLE.
> >> A MISDIAGNOSIS IS NOT A MIRACLE!!!!!
> ...
> > You a college trained edjucamater don't know the definition of fraud.
>
> But an ignorant uneducated fundamentalist like you does?
> "Peter B." wrote:
> >> There was NO MIRACLE.
> >> It was doctor's MISDIAGNOSIS!!!
> >> NO DEATH CERTIFICATE!!!!
> >> The doctor made a mistake and put a live person in the morgue.
> >> It ISN'T a miracle.
> >> NO MEDICAL PROOF - NO DEATH CERTIFICATE.
> >> FRAUD - NO MIRACLE.
> >> A MISDIAGNOSIS IS NOT A MIRACLE!!!!!
> ...
> > You a college trained edjucamater don't know the definition of fraud.
>
> But an ignorant uneducated fundamentalist like you does?
Did you forget? They have this invention called a dictionary. Oh and
it has been proven to you that Peter is not a fundamentalist. You ran
away, could not and would not address the evidence. Your own source
James Barr makes it clear Peter is not a fundamentalist so let's not
have any more lies.
[...]
> Fraud is something intended to deceive.
And someone who actually believes a miracle took place do not have
intent to deceive. Now you claimed that you have "proof of fraud".
Please show us the proof or admit you made that up.
> You have been DECEIVED by Wommack Ministries.
It is possible. Do you have proof that this was the intent?
> The deception is substituting a medical misdiagnosis for a miracle.
>
> That is fraud!
So you don't know what fraud means? You quoted it a few lines ago so
how could you forget so soon? Where did you establish intent to
deceive?
the salad
Dec 24, 2010, 3:04:13 AM12/24/10
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On Dec 23, 10:37 pm, "I" <VeraSixmystalkerandtr...@home191.com> wrote:
[...]
> > Where was the fraud?
>
> The FRAUD is attributing a MIRACLE to a MEDICAL MISDIAGNOSIS!!!!
>
> Can't you read? Oh, I forgot, you have . . .
[...]
> > Where was the fraud?
>
> The FRAUD is attributing a MIRACLE to a MEDICAL MISDIAGNOSIS!!!!
>
Mark why do you lie so much? The fact is that you said you had proof
and you have failed to prove intent to deceive. Calling Peter names
and using extra exclamation marks (educator?) does not make your lies
true nor make up for your failure to support your claims.
holl...@gmail.com
Aug 3, 2017, 12:32:25 PM8/3/17
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If your child had been declared dead by Drs and 5 hours later your loss would have you torn up, then finding out he or she is alive. Miracle or misdiagnosed you'd be blessed! A miracle! After the worst grief ever imagined to be lifted with the joy of your child's being given back to you. To me it would be an most incredible gift whether it was a miracle or misdiagnosis. I'd be forever joyed to have my childs gift of life, not just at birth but it would present it's self as rebirth full of second chances. Faith Fraud Family? Or maybe the answer is only two of these? In my opinion fraud isn't even a question in this particular family. This is their journey not ours. Peacefully yours,
Sandy
Sandy
Robert
Aug 3, 2017, 1:15:04 PM8/3/17
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On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 09:32:23 -0700 (PDT), holl...@gmail.com wrote:
>If your child had been declared dead by Drs and 5 hours later your loss would have you torn up, then finding out he or she is alive. Miracle or misdiagnosed you'd be blessed! A miracle! After the worst grief ever imagined to be lifted with the joy of your child's being given back to you. To me it would be an most incredible gift whether it was a miracle or misdiagnosis. I'd be forever joyed to have my childs gift of life, not just at birth but it would present it's self as rebirth full of second chances. Faith Fraud Family? Or maybe the answer is only two of these? In my opinion fraud isn't even a question in this particular family. This is their journey not ours. Peacefully yours,
>Sandy
"Their Journey" you say, yet you had to make something of it.
>If your child had been declared dead by Drs and 5 hours later your loss would have you torn up, then finding out he or she is alive. Miracle or misdiagnosed you'd be blessed! A miracle! After the worst grief ever imagined to be lifted with the joy of your child's being given back to you. To me it would be an most incredible gift whether it was a miracle or misdiagnosis. I'd be forever joyed to have my childs gift of life, not just at birth but it would present it's self as rebirth full of second chances. Faith Fraud Family? Or maybe the answer is only two of these? In my opinion fraud isn't even a question in this particular family. This is their journey not ours. Peacefully yours,
>Sandy
Did you check with the coroner to see what they said?
I have no knowledge of your understanding of God, yet I do know you
are full of doubt and unbelief. That will harden your heart and should
the time come that you need a miracle for you or your family, then
were will you be able to draw faith from? Doubt and unbelief are real
killers.
Where in scripture does it say that these things can or cannot happen?
cj3...@gmail.com
Jan 6, 2018, 9:09:03 PM1/6/18
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It would have been a miracle to me if it were my son laying there and woke up. Sometimes the drones onthe planet feel a real need to be Davey downers. Nothing good to say? Stay quiet.
lisafil...@gmail.com
Feb 3, 2018, 1:23:57 AM2/3/18
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According to Desiree Wommack, Peter's wife when this incident happened, Peter OD'd on heroin and they couldn't find a heart beat. They took him to the hospital, where they gave him Narcan, and he immediately "rose from the dead" like all overdosed addicts do when you spray opiate blocker in their nostrils. They put Peter in a private room, not the morgue, where he waited, fully conscious, until his parents arrived.
galileoshif...@gmail.com
May 2, 2018, 5:55:04 PM5/2/18
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Message has been deleted
no-...@none.com
May 5, 2018, 5:24:46 PM5/5/18
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On Wed, 2 May 2018 14:56:17 -0700 (PDT),
galileoshif...@gmail.com wrote:
>> According to Desiree Wommack, Peter's wife when this incident happened, Peter OD'd on heroin and they couldn't find a heart beat. They took him to the hospital, where they gave him Narcan, and he immediately "rose from the dead" like all overdosed addicts do when you spray opiate blocker in their nostrils. They put Peter in a private room, not the morgue, where he waited, fully conscious, until his parents arrived.
>
>According to Desiree Wommack, Peter's wife when this incident happened, Peter OD'd on heroin and they couldn't find a heart beat. They took him to the hospital, where they gave him Narcan, and he immediately "rose from the dead" like all overdosed addicts do when you spray opiate blocker in their nostrils. They put Peter in a private room, not the morgue, where he waited, fully conscious, until his parents arrived.
Post Proof, either way.
galileoshif...@gmail.com wrote:
>> According to Desiree Wommack, Peter's wife when this incident happened, Peter OD'd on heroin and they couldn't find a heart beat. They took him to the hospital, where they gave him Narcan, and he immediately "rose from the dead" like all overdosed addicts do when you spray opiate blocker in their nostrils. They put Peter in a private room, not the morgue, where he waited, fully conscious, until his parents arrived.
>
>According to Desiree Wommack, Peter's wife when this incident happened, Peter OD'd on heroin and they couldn't find a heart beat. They took him to the hospital, where they gave him Narcan, and he immediately "rose from the dead" like all overdosed addicts do when you spray opiate blocker in their nostrils. They put Peter in a private room, not the morgue, where he waited, fully conscious, until his parents arrived.
Also provide dates of the events and when Hospitals first had "Narcan"
or similar available.
Your previous link did not exist.
matthe...@gmail.com
Jul 23, 2018, 8:16:58 PM7/23/18
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abraxa...@gmail.com
Nov 27, 2018, 3:44:01 AM11/27/18
to
death certificates are made up plenty of hours or days after that it was a toe tag on the guy I'm sure they intubated (artificial breathing) electroshock therapy the guy had a toe tag on for 4 hours laying in the cold do you not think he would at least ask for a jacket sounds like a miracle to me
everl...@gmail.com
Jan 19, 2019, 10:32:37 PM1/19/19
to
Are miricales possible in your worldviews? Or do you have a predisposition against miricals and interpret evidence according to your presupposition that miricales are impossible?
Government Shill #2
Jan 19, 2019, 10:53:11 PM1/19/19
to
On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 19:32:35 -0800 (PST), everl...@gmail.com wrote:
>Are miricales possible in your worldviews?
Possible? Sure. Anything is possible. Probable? How do you measure the
>Are miricales possible in your worldviews?
probability of something that's never happened?
>Or do you have a predisposition against miricals
>and interpret evidence according to your presupposition that miricales are impossible?
Shill #2
--
I believe in evidence. I believe in observation, measurement, and reasoning,
confirmed by independent observers. I'll believe anything, no matter how wild
and ridiculous, if there is evidence for it. The wilder and more ridiculous
something is, however, the firmer and more solid the evidence will have to be.
Isaac Asimov - The Roving Mind (1983)
everl...@gmail.com
Jan 21, 2019, 11:56:29 PM1/21/19
to
So then in your worldview it would be be possible hypothetically for God to exist and reveal thing to His creations such that they could be certain of them?
Government Shill #2
Jan 22, 2019, 12:10:28 AM1/22/19
to
Are you replying to me?
>it would be be possible hypothetically for God
Which god? There are dozens of current gods, and many more historical gods.
>to exist and reveal thing to His creations such that they could be certain of them?
If I assume you mean the Abrahamic god of the Jews/Christians/Muslims, why not?
The stories about him say that he has manifested before. He's the creator of the
universe (if you believe the story). He should be able to do a simple thing like
provide some irrefutable evidence.
>it would be be possible hypothetically for God
>to exist and reveal thing to His creations such that they could be certain of them?
The stories about him say that he has manifested before. He's the creator of the
universe (if you believe the story). He should be able to do a simple thing like
provide some irrefutable evidence.
everl...@gmail.com
Jan 22, 2019, 12:53:10 AM1/22/19
to
I'm referring to the God of Christianity and the bible.
everl...@gmail.com
Jan 22, 2019, 12:55:50 AM1/22/19
to
Yes I'm replying to you Government shill.
Government Shill #2
Jan 22, 2019, 2:19:16 AM1/22/19
to
On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 21:55:49 -0800 (PST), everl...@gmail.com wrote:
>Yes I'm replying to you Government shill.
So, I replied to your last post. comments?
>Yes I'm replying to you Government shill.
Shill #2
--
A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle.
Vique
everl...@gmail.com
Jan 22, 2019, 3:24:16 AM1/22/19
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So you have granted the God of the bible could reveal some things to His creation such that they could be certain of them. This is my Avenue to certainty. Now you said that you know things through your observation. How do you know that your senses and reason are valid?
Government Shill #2
Jan 22, 2019, 3:13:10 PM1/22/19
to
On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 00:24:15 -0800 (PST), everl...@gmail.com wrote:
>So you have granted the God of the bible could reveal some things to His creation such that they could be certain of them.
Sure. Why doesn't he?
>So you have granted the God of the bible could reveal some things to His creation such that they could be certain of them.
>This is my Avenue to certainty.
>Now you said that you know things through your observation. How do you know that your senses and reason are valid?
assume it is reliable. I can observe things. I can measure things. I can reason
about things. When I do this it always (so far) has comported with reality, as I
experience it.
Give it a try.
Message has been deleted
everl...@gmail.com
Jan 23, 2019, 6:14:05 PM1/23/19
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So you use your senses and reasoning to validate your senses and reasoning. This is viciously circular. Unless you start with God you cannot know anything.You do know things because you know God exists. You don't have a problem with miracles like someone being raised from the dead, you have a problem with the God of miracles. Romans 1:18 states that you are suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.
Government Shill #2
Jan 23, 2019, 7:12:16 PM1/23/19
to
On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 15:12:46 -0800 (PST), everl...@gmail.com wrote:
>So you use your senses and reasoning to validate your senses and reasoning. This is vigorously circular. Unless you start with God you cannot know anything.You do know things because you know God exists.
Talk about circular. Wow!
You start with god, then you know things, because god? Wow! That's nuts.
> You don't have a problem with miracles like someone being raised from the dead, you have a problem with the God of miracles.
I don't have a problem with your god. Just like I don't have a problem with Lord
Voldemort (from the Harry Potter books). Both are evil despots, but they are
also fictional characters. How can anyone have a problem with a non-entity?
>Romans 1:18 states that you are suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.
Why would I care what Romans says? Why is your holy book any more accurate than
the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, or any of the thousand other holy books?
Your book thinks bats are birds:
Leviticus
11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls ;
they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage,
and the ospray,
<snip>
11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
And the Jesus character went around cursing fig trees!
Matthew
21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing
thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee
henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
And you think I should believe any of it?
Shill #2
--
God is "...arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and
proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive,
bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal,
genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic,
capriciously malevolent bully.
Richard Dawkins
>So you use your senses and reasoning to validate your senses and reasoning. This is vigorously circular. Unless you start with God you cannot know anything.You do know things because you know God exists.
Talk about circular. Wow!
You start with god, then you know things, because god? Wow! That's nuts.
> You don't have a problem with miracles like someone being raised from the dead, you have a problem with the God of miracles.
Voldemort (from the Harry Potter books). Both are evil despots, but they are
also fictional characters. How can anyone have a problem with a non-entity?
>Romans 1:18 states that you are suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.
the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, or any of the thousand other holy books?
Your book thinks bats are birds:
Leviticus
11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls ;
they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage,
and the ospray,
<snip>
11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
And the Jesus character went around cursing fig trees!
Matthew
21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing
thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee
henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
And you think I should believe any of it?
Shill #2
--
God is "...arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and
proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive,
bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal,
genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic,
capriciously malevolent bully.
Richard Dawkins
everl...@gmail.com
Jan 24, 2019, 12:02:23 AM1/24/19
to
"You start with god, then you know things, because god? Wow! That's nuts."
Circular reasoning is surprisingly a valid argument. The conclusion does follow from the premises. Circular reasoning is a logical fallacy only when it is arbitrary, proving nothing beyond what it assumes.
However, not all circular reasoning is fallacious. Certain standards must be assumed. Dr. Jason Lisle gave this example of a non-arbitrary use of circular reasoning:
Without laws of logic, we could not make an argument.
We can make an argument.
Therefore, there must be laws of logic.1
While this argument is circular, it is a non-fallacious use of circular reasoning. Since we couldn’t prove anything apart from the laws of logic, we must presuppose the laws of logic even to prove they exist. In fact, if someone were trying to disprove that laws of logic exist, he’d have to use the laws of logic in his attempt, thereby refuting himself. You must agree there are certain standards that can be proven with circular reasoning.
My basic presupposition—God exists and has revealed Himself in His inerrant, authoritative Word—is the ultimate standard. Presupposing God exists to argue that God exists is a reasonable circular argument because without the God of the Bible, we have no basis for assuming the laws of logic and their properties, let alone absolute morality or the uniformity of nature. But apart from God you can not account for these things.
In reference to all the scripture you put up. I'm not going to have a bible study with you because you have a predisposition against God and scripture so you it would be pointless.
"I don't have a problem with your god. Just like I don't have a problem with Lord
Voldemort (from the Harry Potter books). Both are evil despots, but they are
also fictional characters. How can anyone have a problem with a non-entity?"
"Why would I care what Romans says? Why is your holy book any more accurate than
the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, or any of the thousand other holy books? "
"God is "...arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and
proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive,
bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal,
genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic,
capriciously malevolent bully.
Richard Dawkins"
pkor...@gmail.com
Mar 14, 2019, 9:32:08 AM3/14/19
to
On Thursday, December 23, 2010 at 9:12:46 PM UTC-6, Wherez da evidence? wrote:
> On Dec 23, 5:25 pm, "I" <VeraSixmystalkerandtr...@home182.com> wrote:
>
> Mark you said there was proof of fraud. Well where is it? Should we
> just assume that claims you make are false?
Wait a minute. His son overdosed on heroin? I could never trust a preacher after hearing this.
> On Dec 23, 5:25 pm, "I" <VeraSixmystalkerandtr...@home182.com> wrote:
>
> Mark you said there was proof of fraud. Well where is it? Should we
> just assume that claims you make are false?
unru...@gmail.com
Apr 18, 2019, 12:14:15 PM4/18/19
to
Wait, are you making a moral judgment of God? Based on what?
Government Shill #2
Apr 18, 2019, 11:03:00 PM4/18/19
to
On Thu, 18 Apr 2019 09:14:13 -0700 (PDT), unru...@gmail.com wrote:
>Wait, are you making a moral judgment of God? Based on what?
Given that you have top posted, I have no idea what you are responding to.
>Wait, are you making a moral judgment of God? Based on what?
Care to let me in on what you object to?
Shill #2
--
A. Top Posters
Q. What's the most annoying thing on the usenet?
annieb
miss...@hotmail.com
Sep 28, 2019, 9:58:37 PM9/28/19
to
When we don’t have an explanation for something that is truly “miraculous“ then we have to have some sort of reason as to why it was supposedly “fraud“. Miracles don’t prove the impossible they prove the possible! I believe Andrew Wommack. If he was lying he would be carrying that lie to this day.
egho...@gmail.com
Sep 29, 2019, 1:03:13 PM9/29/19
to
Hello Bachman, I just read your post which has been for many years now.
You sound to me like a very critical person which is not a bad thing. However, the points you raised are not valid -
1. The death was as a result if suspected drug overdose which meant he must have suffered a cardiac arrest. In that case, CPR along with use of defribrillators must have been employed to resuscitate him. This is normally done by a trained team.
The decision to call off a resusitation is normally made collectively after a prolonged attempt and based on evidence from monitors and clinical evaluation. So, there wouldn't have been an error on the part of the doctors.
2. A Death Certificate must contain a cause of death. So, you wouldn't expect it to have been issued within 5 hours of death.
Furthermore, it was the case of a very young person with suspected drug overdose. Such a case would likely warrant an autopsy for confirmation.
Thank you.
Derek.
You sound to me like a very critical person which is not a bad thing. However, the points you raised are not valid -
1. The death was as a result if suspected drug overdose which meant he must have suffered a cardiac arrest. In that case, CPR along with use of defribrillators must have been employed to resuscitate him. This is normally done by a trained team.
The decision to call off a resusitation is normally made collectively after a prolonged attempt and based on evidence from monitors and clinical evaluation. So, there wouldn't have been an error on the part of the doctors.
2. A Death Certificate must contain a cause of death. So, you wouldn't expect it to have been issued within 5 hours of death.
Furthermore, it was the case of a very young person with suspected drug overdose. Such a case would likely warrant an autopsy for confirmation.
Thank you.
Derek.
mmosb...@gmail.com
Dec 9, 2019, 3:23:31 AM12/9/19
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Okay then use all your scientific tools to prove how a bee can fly.
healthma...@gmail.com
Jan 30, 2020, 12:35:11 PM1/30/20
to
benj...@gmail.com
Feb 23, 2020, 12:42:34 PM2/23/20
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Shill, firstly in response to your silly argument about “our book” referring to bats as birds, and using, again, that silly argument to refute the truth “our book” contains. The ancient Hebrew word used in the place of fowl was “owph”, which refers to anything that takes flight. A bird, an insect, etc. the classification of species did not exist back then. If God, who knows and created all, used a species or a sub-species classification, it most likely would have confused the heck out of those he was speaking to.
Also, you say he is an jealous God. Yes, He actually says He is a Jealous God - you are correct. However, IF the Bible is truth (and it is), He created everything TO glorify Him. When His creations completely go against His instructions (like a parent instructing a child for the good of the child, and punishing the child when he/she disobeys) He will punish us. I have 3 children of my own, and I love them more than anything (save for God and my wife). I absolutely punish then when they lip off or disobey me. I do not beat my children and they absolutely know my love for them. I have also gone against the instructions of my God, and have been punished for it. In the Old Testament (which I know you’re referring to when you called Him jealous, unforgiving and blood-thirsty), He gave warnings (multiple warnings) before a punishment would come, and would turn away His anger to those who turned away from what was evil (I know what you’re thinking - “what HE calls evil“ is what’s coming to your mind. I know this because you believe the Bible to be a fairy-tail, and who’s this God to say what’s evil and what’s not evil??). Personally though, I consider sacrificing your children to pagan gods (idols) to be evil. Maybe it’s just me?
Anyway, I probably god off track a bit. You call Him a jealous God (TRUE - but righteous jealousy), you call him an unforgiving God (FALSE - anyone who comes to repentance is forgiven), and a blood-thirsty God (FALSE - the Bible says the Lord is not willing that anyone should perish, however he does punish the wicked and unrepentant).
Also, the god the Muslims believe in is NOT the same God I worship. And the Torah IS the same as my Old Testament, the key difference is the New Testament. They do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. I have Jewish cousins, FYI.
I really wish you know more about the Bible so you could try and refute it intelligently, instead of just trying to rile up “us Christians”. I probably won’t reply to anything else because I just don’t care enough. I know what I’m saying isn’t going to change your mind, and I can promise you won’t change mine. I just wanted to say a few things.
Romans 1:16
Also, you say he is an jealous God. Yes, He actually says He is a Jealous God - you are correct. However, IF the Bible is truth (and it is), He created everything TO glorify Him. When His creations completely go against His instructions (like a parent instructing a child for the good of the child, and punishing the child when he/she disobeys) He will punish us. I have 3 children of my own, and I love them more than anything (save for God and my wife). I absolutely punish then when they lip off or disobey me. I do not beat my children and they absolutely know my love for them. I have also gone against the instructions of my God, and have been punished for it. In the Old Testament (which I know you’re referring to when you called Him jealous, unforgiving and blood-thirsty), He gave warnings (multiple warnings) before a punishment would come, and would turn away His anger to those who turned away from what was evil (I know what you’re thinking - “what HE calls evil“ is what’s coming to your mind. I know this because you believe the Bible to be a fairy-tail, and who’s this God to say what’s evil and what’s not evil??). Personally though, I consider sacrificing your children to pagan gods (idols) to be evil. Maybe it’s just me?
Anyway, I probably god off track a bit. You call Him a jealous God (TRUE - but righteous jealousy), you call him an unforgiving God (FALSE - anyone who comes to repentance is forgiven), and a blood-thirsty God (FALSE - the Bible says the Lord is not willing that anyone should perish, however he does punish the wicked and unrepentant).
Also, the god the Muslims believe in is NOT the same God I worship. And the Torah IS the same as my Old Testament, the key difference is the New Testament. They do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. I have Jewish cousins, FYI.
I really wish you know more about the Bible so you could try and refute it intelligently, instead of just trying to rile up “us Christians”. I probably won’t reply to anything else because I just don’t care enough. I know what I’m saying isn’t going to change your mind, and I can promise you won’t change mine. I just wanted to say a few things.
Romans 1:16
uhp...@gmail.com
Apr 23, 2020, 7:09:18 AM4/23/20
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On Thursday, December 23, 2010 at 7:25:23 PM UTC-6, I wrote:
> bachman
>
> Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 4:57 pm:
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I was going to do a book/article about Andrew Wommack and he was interested
> in the idea. I got a call from one of his representatives and I said, "For
> years, Andrew has told these amazing stories and the idea that his son was
> raised from the dead -- that must have been front-page news and I want to
> get the documentation for that."
>
> Well, the fellow admitted there IS NONE. There was no death certificate.
> Andrew's son had overdosed and the "doctor pronounced him dead, put him in
> the hospital morgue and put a toe-tag on him."
>
> The rest of the story is how Andrew says---he and his wife Jamie went to the
> hospital and prayed for their son who "rose off the table and came back from
> the dead."
>
> Hmmmm.
>
> The fellow on the phone said that the doctors won't be interviewed because
> they don't want to be portrayed as wrongly calling someone dead who wasn't
> dead (in their eyes) or having to admit someone was raised from the dead.
>
> Overall, very sad and I wonder how many other "miracles"are really
> "misunderstandings."
>
> from http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/31787.html?1190938606
So experienced doctors who have seen many persons die pronounce a person as dead. They send the dead person to the morgue and all it takes is a false accusation from someone who wasn't there, and has no evidence to refute the doctors to just make a false accusation against the doctors and a well respected person and father of that child sent to the morgue.
> bachman
>
> Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 4:57 pm:
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I was going to do a book/article about Andrew Wommack and he was interested
> in the idea. I got a call from one of his representatives and I said, "For
> years, Andrew has told these amazing stories and the idea that his son was
> raised from the dead -- that must have been front-page news and I want to
> get the documentation for that."
>
> Well, the fellow admitted there IS NONE. There was no death certificate.
> Andrew's son had overdosed and the "doctor pronounced him dead, put him in
> the hospital morgue and put a toe-tag on him."
>
> The rest of the story is how Andrew says---he and his wife Jamie went to the
> hospital and prayed for their son who "rose off the table and came back from
> the dead."
>
> Hmmmm.
>
> The fellow on the phone said that the doctors won't be interviewed because
> they don't want to be portrayed as wrongly calling someone dead who wasn't
> dead (in their eyes) or having to admit someone was raised from the dead.
>
> Overall, very sad and I wonder how many other "miracles"are really
> "misunderstandings."
>
> from http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/31787.html?1190938606
Again liars and devils are always around the corner. Millions of people have been instantly healed from terminal infirmities, and millions around the world have been raised from the dead. People who have not accutually sought out miracles just go by their narrow limited brain dead experience.
davy oliver
Dec 27, 2021, 4:11:16 AM12/27/21
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do you know the exact procedure for mortuaries, after how long are death certificates drawn up, 1 hour, 2 hours and are they drawn up on time? , because a dead person cannot save himself once he is dead, so people can take their time to draw up a death certificate, on the other hand, there are many notebooks or reports where this person has been diagnosed dead, when the heart stopped beating for more than 30 minutes, I think that one can say without being a doctor that the person is dead, maybe that you did not know how to look where you had to look, another one who does half work and who accuses people of lying ... you sometimes have to travel and do miles to make real full investigations ...
Gene Snelling
Apr 28, 2022, 6:09:16 PM4/28/22
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E H
Jun 13, 2022, 5:46:00 PM6/13/22
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On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:09:16 PM UTC-6, Gene Snelling wrote:
> On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 4:11:16 AM UTC-5, davy oliver wrote:
> > do you know the exact procedure for mortuaries, after how long are death certificates drawn up, 1 hour, 2 hours and are they drawn up on time? , because a dead person cannot save himself once he is dead, so people can take their time to draw up a death certificate, on the other hand, there are many notebooks or reports where this person has been diagnosed dead, when the heart stopped beating for more than 30 minutes, I think that one can say without being a doctor that the person is dead, maybe that you did not know how to look where you had to look, another one who does half work and who accuses people of lying ... you sometimes have to travel and do miles to make real full investigations ...
Strange, no one wants to look the crap up themselves. A small community was run over with no remorse from Mr. Womack, with his lies to buy property for his tax free school and charge is students while they have no place to live. Then have the nerve to build a car garage for a huge political push in 2020 but still no dorms for his students. He really cares where they live right! Still to this day none, and I mean NONE of his students have answered what good has AWM done for the community besides push retirees seniors on fixed incomes out of the community, depleted our community food pantries and raise homes prices and rents to the equivalent to California beach properties rents just to name a few. And then his students get even more upset when people like me state the facts and say look it up. Oh no, they don't want too and they have said that to my face. He is a money changer in my eyes and from what he has been doing for the last 8 years only shows I'm right about that too. Jim Jones, H.B. Hubbard are AW idols. I do not like what students get MAD when they hear the truths from locals and how we feel. But, hey most of um think the world revolves around them anyway so, like talking to a rock.
> On Monday, December 27, 2021 at 4:11:16 AM UTC-5, davy oliver wrote:
> > do you know the exact procedure for mortuaries, after how long are death certificates drawn up, 1 hour, 2 hours and are they drawn up on time? , because a dead person cannot save himself once he is dead, so people can take their time to draw up a death certificate, on the other hand, there are many notebooks or reports where this person has been diagnosed dead, when the heart stopped beating for more than 30 minutes, I think that one can say without being a doctor that the person is dead, maybe that you did not know how to look where you had to look, another one who does half work and who accuses people of lying ... you sometimes have to travel and do miles to make real full investigations ...
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