When is a statue not s Statue? When it is an Orthodox Icon-ikon-eikon

[Dr. Who]

eikōn

i-kone’

From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
(figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.

Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.

Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.

[P+Barker]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
wrote:

>
>eiko?n

When is a statue considered a graven image?
When bobbo sez so.

[Rod_B]

But he is right Patrick. nearly every religion created by man has
made images of one kind or another, from the anti deluvian
civilizations all the way thru to Christianity.


Exo_20:4  Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the
likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath,
nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 27, 2023, P+Barker wrote
(in article<qkc8th5bgl865tbea...@4ax.com>):

Brittanica Dictionary
Def: : an object (such as a statue) that is worshipped as a god or in place
of a god

It also applies to statues of Queen Mary, Baseball and Football players in a
ballpark, or presidential statues.

But as far as the objects used religiously as defined above, that is also
what God calls it.

You can, of course, deflect your personal guilt by blaming if me, rather than
accept the Fact that it is something that the Heavenly Father is opposed to.
As you kiss your Cross, a statue, or a picture related to religion. That
doesn’t include yo mama.

[Michael McLean]

On 28/01/2023 7:50 am, Rod_B wrote:
> On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> eiko?n
>>>
>>> i-kone’
>>>
>>> From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>>
>>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>>
>>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>>
>>
>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>> When bobbo sez so.
>
>   But he is right Patrick. nearly every religion created by man has
>   made images of one kind or another, from the anti deluvian
> civilizations all the way thru to Christianity.

An image to self.



Mike

>
>
>   Exo_20:4  Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the
> likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath,
> nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible.
Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy.
Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection
in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

[Rod_B]

On 1/27/2023 3:04 PM, Michael McLean wrote:
> On 28/01/2023 7:50 am, Rod_B wrote:
>> On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> eiko?n
>>>>
>>>> i-kone’
>>>>
>>>> From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>>>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>>>
>>>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>>>
>>>
>>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>>> When bobbo sez so.
>>
>>    But he is right Patrick. nearly every religion created by man has
>>    made images of one kind or another, from the anti deluvian
>> civilizations all the way thru to Christianity.
>
> An image to self.

Well yeah, it's very cut and dried. No means no.

[P+Barker]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 14:50:58 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> eiko?n
>>>
>>> i-kone’
>>>
>>>From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>>
>>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>>
>>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>>
>>
>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>> When bobbo sez so.
>
> But he is right Patrick. nearly every religion created by man has
> made images of one kind or another, from the anti deluvian
>civilizations all the way thru to Christianity.

So?

When is a statue considered a graven image?
When bobbo sez so.

[P+Barker]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 16:23:14 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>

[P+Barker]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:51:00 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>

wrote:

>On Jan 27, 2023, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<qkc8th5bgl865tbea...@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who<dr....@biosphere.orb>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > eiko?n
>> >
>> > i-kone’
>> >
>> > From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>> > (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>> >
>> > Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>> >
>> > Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>>
>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>> When bobbo sez so.
>
>Brittanica Dictionary
>Def: : an object (such as a statue) that is worshipped as a god or in place
>of a god

OK.
Do you WORSHIP statues?
In case you didn't know, Catholics do NOT worship marble or cement.

>It also applies to statues of Queen Mary, Baseball and Football players in a
>ballpark, or presidential statues.

Do you think people worship statues of football players?

>But as far as the objects used religiously as defined above, that is also
>what God calls it.

OK.
Do you WORSHIP statues?
In case you didn't know, Catholics do NOT worship marble or cement.

>You can, of course, deflect your personal guilt by blaming if me, rather than
>accept the Fact that it is something that the Heavenly Father is opposed to.
>As you kiss your Cross, a statue, or a picture related to religion. That
>doesn’t include yo mama.

OK.
Do you WORSHIP statues?
In case you didn't know, Catholics do NOT worship marble or cement.

[servant]

Good golly miss molly, quick, someone telll Moses. At God's direction he
had pictures of angels put on the temple veil and graven statutes of the
same class of angels put on each end of the ark. Let's go to the
scripture:

Exodus 20 3 Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. (That is to have
false gods along with or in place of Him.), not indicating how they might
be represented.)

4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of

any thing ... (To make a physical representation for the presence of a
false god. for worship purposes)

Hmm, not have false gods, as might be represented by some graphic, but not
any graphic in and of itself, got it. Moses is home free.

The seventh ecumenical council took up this question when muslims accused
christians of having idols because of images in their churches. Images of
Christ are known from the 1st century.

Fundimentalist muslims do not allow any image of persons of any form
anywhere for any purpose, period to make sure the commandment of God is
followed. . Picture of your mother on the wall, no possible way because
that makes it an idol, no?

In an orthodox church an icon,ie. picture of God as a person is never found
least it be mistaken for God himself who is spirit alone.

It was decided that the incarnate,ie. physically in the flesh Christ could
be represented for veneration, not worship of the wood/paper and paint
item,ie. by icons of Him. Many, maybe most icons are of
events/parables/people present in bible accounts.

Quick, do you have pictures of Christ or any other person in scripture
anywhere in your house/church, don't forget to include those bible story
books for children or christmas nativity sets or such like.. God forbid
you have an angel ornament at the top of your christmas tree or a fish
sticker on your bumper.

>eikoĢn
>
>i-koneā

[Rod_B]

You haven't taken into consideration the remainder of the verse that
also say's:


Exo_20:4 "nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in
the earth beneath,"


No way out of this, Patrick.

[Rod_B]

On 1/27/2023 4:36 PM, P+Barker wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 14:50:58 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> eiko?n
>>>>
>>>> i-kone’
>>>>
>>> >From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>>>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>>>
>>>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>>>
>>>
>>> When is a statue considered a graven image?

It does not have to be a graven image Patrick. It can be someting
as simple as a likeness which does include statues. Read the remainder
of the verse below;

[Michael McLean]

On 28/01/2023 9:23 am, Rod_B wrote:
> On 1/27/2023 3:04 PM, Michael McLean wrote:
>> On 28/01/2023 7:50 am, Rod_B wrote:
>>> On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> eiko?n
>>>>>
>>>>> i-kone’
>>>>>
>>>>> From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>>>>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>>>> When bobbo sez so.
>>>
>>>    But he is right Patrick. nearly every religion created by man has
>>>    made images of one kind or another, from the anti deluvian
>>> civilizations all the way thru to Christianity.
>>
>> An image to self.
>
>   Well yeah, it's very cut and dried. No means no.

Yes, God is a God of yes means yes, and no means...ummm...maybe...
ummm...I mean, no.

:-).

Mike



>>>    Exo_20:4  Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the
>>> likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth
>>> beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.
>>
>

[Michael McLean]

On 28/01/2023 9:36 am, P+Barker wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 14:50:58 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> eiko?n
>>>>
>>>> i-kone’
>>>>
>>> >From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>>>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>>>
>>>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>>>
>>>
>>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>>> When bobbo sez so.
>>
>> But he is right Patrick. nearly every religion created by man has
>> made images of one kind or another, from the anti deluvian
>> civilizations all the way thru to Christianity.
>
> So?
> When is a statue considered a graven image?
> When bobbo sez so.

Patrick, are you a person like that?

When Patrick sez so?




Mike

>
>
>
>> Exo_20:4  Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the
>> likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath,
>> nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.

[Michael McLean]

The law was fulfilled. You can do what you like now and not be
condemned for it. Consequence from your choices, though, is another thing.





Mike

>
>
>
>>
>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>> When bobbo sez so.
>

[Michael McLean]

Technically, regarding the scripture you are right, Rod, but it doesn't
apply anymore.





Mike

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 27, 2023, P+Barker wrote

(in article<aik8thtcbe7t2d950...@4ax.com>):

> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:51:00 -0800, Dr. Who<dr....@biosphere.orb>
> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 27, 2023, P+Barker wrote
> > (in article<qkc8th5bgl865tbea...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who<dr....@biosphere.orb>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > eiko?n
> > > >
> > > > i-kone’
> > > >
> > > > From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
> > > > (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
> > > >
> > > > Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
> > >
> > > When is a statue considered a graven image?
> > > When bobbo sez so.
> >
> > Brittanica Dictionary
> > Def: : an object (such as a statue) that is worshipped as a god or in place
> > of a god
>
> OK.
> Do you WORSHIP statues?
> In case you didn't know, Catholics do NOT worship marble or cement.

“Or in place of a god.” Like a little cross, Mary metal, etc,

>
>
> > It also applies to statues of Queen Mary, Baseball and Football players in a
> > ballpark, or presidential statues.
>
> Do you think people worship statues of football players?

Some do, musicians as well. The idolize them. Reverence them, etc. But not as
the God of Heaven, yet still as something they dwell on as they idolize them.

>
>
> > But as far as the objects used religiously as defined above, that is also
> > what God calls it.
>
> OK.
> Do you WORSHIP statues?
> In case you didn't know, Catholics do NOT worship marble or cement.

How quickly you revert to Parrot mode.

>
>
> > You can, of course, deflect your personal guilt by blaming if me, rather
> > than
> > accept the Fact that it is something that the Heavenly Father is opposed to.
> > As you kiss your Cross, a statue, or a picture related to religion. That
> > doesn’t include yo mama.
>
> OK.
> Do you WORSHIP statues?
> In case you didn't know, Catholics do NOT worship marble or cement.

Full put parrot mode, yet I see you did not exclude wood, plastic, clay,
pancakes, trees or their markings or your friend Mike.

[servant]

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 27, 2023, servant wrote
(in article<63d45467$0$2227$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):

>
> Good golly miss molly, quick, someone telll Moses. At God's direction he
> had pictures of angels put on the temple veil and graven statutes of the
> same class of angels put on each end of the ark. Let's go to the
> scripture:
>
> Exodus 20 3 Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. (That is to have
> false gods along with or in place of Him.), not indicating how they might
> be represented.)
>
> 4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of
> any thing ... (To make a physical representation for the presence of a
> false god. for worship purposes)

Woman, it is too bad that you had such a guilt ridden knee jerk reaction to
the post that you just “had to” post things to fulfill your agenda driven
reaction and did not bother to even read with understanding what you posted.
Not only did you not read with comprehension what I posted, but what you
posted right out of the chute.

What part of "for worship purposes” do you not understand? That phrase you
posted should have resolved the issue for you.

The Ikons, for instance, that you worship when you are at home or in a place
of worship, have designated ways to worship them, places to kiss, etc. Just
like the ring on your priests hand. When and how to burn incense, candles,
etc. Even making the sign of a cross is a representation, a work of the
flesh.

When you wandered off into Islam land I abandoned reading further for what do
they have to do with the Heavenly Father or His Son Jesus?

[Rod_B]

No meant no, servant, not yes.

[P+Barker]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 17:02:42 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>

Old Testament Mumbo Jumbo.
How do you know exactly what Christ looks like?
What say you regarding stained glass windows in churches?
Do you have a picture of your mom someplace in your home?
Tell us the truth, rodb.

>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>> When bobbo sez so.

Catholics do not "WORSHIP" likenesses, pictures, marble statues, etc.
And we also don't follow the Old Testament as a owner's manual.

[P+Barker]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 10:19:35 +1100, Michael McLean
<michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 28/01/2023 9:23 am, Rod_B wrote:
>> On 1/27/2023 3:04 PM, Michael McLean wrote:
>>> On 28/01/2023 7:50 am, Rod_B wrote:
>>>> On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> eiko?n
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i-kone’
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>>>>>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>>>>> When bobbo sez so.
>>>>
>>>>    But he is right Patrick. nearly every religion created by man has
>>>>    made images of one kind or another, from the anti deluvian
>>>> civilizations all the way thru to Christianity.
>>>
>>> An image to self.
>>
>>   Well yeah, it's very cut and dried. No means no.
>
>Yes, God is a God of yes means yes, and no means...ummm...maybe...
>ummm...I mean, no.

HEY! Make up my mind.

[P+Barker]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 17:07:05 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>

<YAWN>
Another snatch and grab preacher, huh?





THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF GOD
“What good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” “If you would enter
into life, keep the Commandments.”

Christ — through the example of his own life and by his preaching —
attested to the permanent validity of the Ten Commandments.

The Decalogue contains a privileged expression of the natural law. It
is made known to us by divine revelation and by human reason.
1. I am the Lord your God: you shall not have strange gods before me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord’s Day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
10.You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

Exodus 20
King James Version
20 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of
Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of
any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the
Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers
upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that
hate me;

++++++++++++
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the
Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers
upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that
hate me;
++++++++++++

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my
commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the
Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou
shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy
manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that
is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all
that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord
blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

[P+Barker]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 10:26:38 +1100, Michael McLean
<michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 28/01/2023 10:07 am, Rod_B wrote:
>> On 1/27/2023 4:36 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 14:50:58 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> eiko?n
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i-kone’
>>>>>>
>>>>> >From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>>>>>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>>
>>     It does not have to be a graven image Patrick. It can be someting
>> as simple as a likeness which does include statues. Read the remainder
>> of the verse below;
>>
>>   "nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the
>> earth beneath,"
>
>Technically, regarding the scripture you are right, Rod, but it doesn't
>apply anymore.

That law was made like all laws today are made.
See a problem.
Make a rule.

[P+Barker]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 10:20:40 +1100, Michael McLean
<michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 28/01/2023 9:36 am, P+Barker wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 14:50:58 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> eiko?n
>>>>>
>>>>> i-kone’
>>>>>
>>>> >From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>>>>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>>>> When bobbo sez so.
>>>
>>> But he is right Patrick. nearly every religion created by man has
>>> made images of one kind or another, from the anti deluvian
>>> civilizations all the way thru to Christianity.
>>
>> So?
>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>> When bobbo sez so.
>
>Patrick, are you a person like that?
>When Patrick sez so?

If you want truth and wisdom, listen to me.
I am blessed with a lot of common sense.
And I can see through people's bull shit.
Are you trying to take over "head troll" here?

[P+Barker]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 15:49:11 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>

wrote:

>On Jan 27, 2023, P+Barker wrote
>(in article<aik8thtcbe7t2d950...@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:51:00 -0800, Dr. Who<dr....@biosphere.orb>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Jan 27, 2023, P+Barker wrote
>> > (in article<qkc8th5bgl865tbea...@4ax.com>):
>> >
>> > > On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who<dr....@biosphere.orb>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > eiko?n
>> > > >
>> > > > i-kone’
>> > > >
>> > > > From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>> > > > (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>> > > >
>> > > > Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>> > > >
>> > > > Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>> > >
>> > > When is a statue considered a graven image?
>> > > When bobbo sez so.
>> >
>> > Brittanica Dictionary
>> > Def: : an object (such as a statue) that is worshipped as a god or in place
>> > of a god
>>
>> OK.
>> Do you WORSHIP statues?
>> In case you didn't know, Catholics do NOT worship marble or cement.
>
>“Or in place of a god.” Like a little cross, Mary metal, etc,

Catholics do not "WORSHIP" crosses, pictures of Mary, metal, etc.
Listen up. You might learn something.

>> > It also applies to statues of Queen Mary, Baseball and Football players in a
>> > ballpark, or presidential statues.
>>
>> Do you think people worship statues of football players?
>
>Some do, musicians as well. The idolize them. Reverence them, etc. But not as
>the God of Heaven, yet still as something they dwell on as they idolize them.

Then go to their newsgroups, and whine to them.
Catholics do not "WORSHIP" crosses, pictures of Mary, metal, etc.
Listen up. You might learn something.

>> > But as far as the objects used religiously as defined above, that is also
>> > what God calls it.
>>
>> OK.
>> Do you WORSHIP statues?
>> In case you didn't know, Catholics do NOT worship marble or cement.
>
>How quickly you revert to Parrot mode.

I repeat things to stupid people who didn't get what I was saying the
first time. Catholics do not "WORSHIP" crosses, pictures of Mary,
metal, etc.
Listen up. You might learn something.

>> > You can, of course, deflect your personal guilt by blaming if me, rather
>> > than
>> > accept the Fact that it is something that the Heavenly Father is opposed to.
>> > As you kiss your Cross, a statue, or a picture related to religion. That
>> > doesn’t include yo mama.
>>
>> OK.
>> Do you WORSHIP statues?
>> In case you didn't know, Catholics do NOT worship marble or cement.
>
>Full put parrot mode, yet I see you did not exclude wood, plastic, clay,
>pancakes, trees or their markings or your friend Mike.

I have a brother names Mike.
I have no friends in the newgroups.
I repeat things to stupid people who didn't get what I was saying the
first time. Catholics do not "WORSHIP" crosses, pictures of Mary,
metal, etc.
Listen up. You might learn something.

[Michael McLean]

What about self-likeness?




Mike

[Michael McLean]

On 28/01/2023 11:38 am, P+Barker wrote:

Haha...good one.




Mike

[Michael McLean]

I certainly do.

> Make a rule.

Make up your own rules, or as the Bible says, doing what is right in
your own eyes.

Exactly what has been going on for more than a millennia. Remember the
Pharisees making up their own rules? For instance, regarding the Sabbath.

You can't light a fire on the Sabbath, you must light it the day before,
or you can't light one at all. A bit like the Chlistern morals of
today, you can say "poop," but you can't say "shit," but you can say "crap."

[Michael McLean]

Funny today!

So, it is Patrick sez so! Great, now I know. Please command me.




Mike

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 27, 2023, P+Barker wrote

(in article<ukr8thtrbq7ipau20...@4ax.com>):

You just cannot do anything right, poor boy. The first batch you posted was
not of God, the second is corrupted, and my guess is that you can only post
nine of the Ten Commandments.

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 27, 2023, P+Barker wrote

(in article<s5s8th5lk6g8rb1k9...@4ax.com>):

> Catholics do not "WORSHIP" crosses, pictures of Mary, metal, etc.

Full Parrotosis mode, ;)

Are you drooling at the mouth too?

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 27, 2023, servant wrote

(in article<63d463c1$0$2227$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):

> Good golly

Poor woman drifted off into full drooling mode. :(

If it wasn’t for your irrationality, there would be nothing rational in
your post

[Rod_B]

On 1/27/2023 5:52 PM, servant wrote:

> Good golly miss molly, quick, someone telll Moses. At God's direction he
> had pictures of angels put on the temple veil and graven statutes of the
> same class of angels put on each end of the ark. Let's go to the
> scripture:

You need to keep this in memory servant;

Rev 22:12  Behold, I come quickly: and my reward is with me, to
render to every, man according to his works.

Since all those that refused Christ are in the lake of fire,
this can on mean those in Christ and the things done in His body.

[Michael McLean]

Universalists argue that your reference is about "through a fire" to be
purged. Out the other end...

Isa_45:23  I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in
righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.

Psa 22:27  All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the
LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

But that is aside from what the Lord is telling me at the moment.

It is not about punishment for sinners now, it is about what you will be
in the world to come.

That verse you gave, lends itself to punishment in the minds of men, but
it is not about punishment...

Rev 22:12 Behold, I come quickly: and my reward is with me, to
render to every, man according to his works.

...it is about the appropriate consequence to a man's freedom of choice.
You can't punish a man for choosing not to love you!

Do you hear me, Rod???

If that was the case, God may as well be a God that forces people to
love Him!

If I choose to disregard God, then that is my free choice; then I won't
be His son, I'll be a servant...something like that. The first shall be
last and the last shall be first.

Note this...

Mat 21:28  But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to
the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
Mat 21:29  He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented,
and went.
Mat 21:30  And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered
and said, I go, sir: and went not.
Mat 21:31  Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say
unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That
the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Notice: "before you," not, "and you don't."

Good news for everyone, of a sort, but I am in the process of receiving
revelation about all this at the moment. So, I am speaking in a loose
manner, so to speak; I mean flavoured with a bit of continuing present
revelation.

I received something just in this reply.

[Rod_B]

On 1/27/2023 6:44 PM, P+Barker wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 17:07:05 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/27/2023 4:36 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 14:50:58 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> eiko?n
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i-kone’
>>>>>>
>>>>> >From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>>>>>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>>
>> It does not have to be a graven image Patrick. It can be someting
>> as simple as a likeness which does include statues. Read the remainder
>> of the verse below;
>> "nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the
>> earth beneath,"
>
> <YAWN>
> Another snatch and grab preacher, huh?

I am the same person I have always been Patrick. This sounds like an
admission that you do not accept the word of God over your own desires.

[Rod_B]

On 1/27/2023 8:54 PM, Michael McLean wrote:
> On 28/01/2023 12:52 pm, Rod_B wrote:
>> On 1/27/2023 5:52 PM, servant wrote:
>>> Good golly miss molly, quick, someone telll Moses.  At God's
>>> direction he
>>> had pictures of angels put on the temple veil and graven statutes of the
>>> same class of angels put on each end of the ark.  Let's go to the
>>> scripture:
>>
>>     You need to keep this in memory servant;
>>
>>     Rev 22:12  Behold, I come quickly: and my reward is with me, to
>> render to every, man according to his works.
>>
>>     Since all those that refused Christ are in the lake of fire,
>>     this can on mean those in Christ and the things done in His body.
>
> Universalists argue that your reference is about "through a fire" to be
> purged.  Out the other end...
>
> Isa_45:23  I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in
> righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow,
> every tongue shall swear.
>
> Psa 22:27  All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the
> LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
>
> But that is aside from what the Lord is telling me at the moment.
>
> It is not about punishment for sinners now, it is about what you will be
> in the world to come.

Exactly. The works done in the body of Christ will be reflected
in the body.

[pyotr filipivich]

Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com> on Fri, 27 Jan 2023 14:50:58 -0600
typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:

>On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> eiko?n
>>>
>>> i-kone’
>>>
>>>From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>>
>>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>>
>>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>>
>>
>> When is a statue considered a graven image?

>> When bobbo sez so.
>
> But he is right Patrick. nearly every religion created by man has
> made images of one kind or another, from the anti deluvian
>civilizations all the way thru to Christianity.
>
>

> Exo_20:4  Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the

>likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath,

>nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.

Now read a little further, where the Lord God Himself instructs
His people to make images to adorn His tabernacle.

Not to mention the Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant.
--
pyotr
After the war two Army Chaplains were mustering out. The one said to
the other "Chaplain, it has been a real pleasure serving God with you.
You in your way, and I in His."

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 27, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<8ea9thlk1ll0mec9f...@4ax.com>):

> Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com> on Fri, 27 Jan 2023 14:50:58 -0600
> typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> > On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
> > > On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who<dr....@biosphere.orb>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > eiko?n
> > > >
> > > > i-kone’
> > > >
> > > > From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
> > > > (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
> > > >
> > > > Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
> > >
> > >
> > > When is a statue considered a graven image?
> > > When bobbo sez so.
> >
> > But he is right Patrick. nearly every religion created by man has
> > made images of one kind or another, from the anti deluvian
> > civilizations all the way thru to Christianity.
> >
> >
> > Exo_20:4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the
> > likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath,
> > nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.
>
> Now read a little further, where the Lord God Himself instructs
> His people to make images to adorn His tabernacle.
>
> Not to mention the Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant.

Yet they are not objects of worship, Never were. On top of all that, who saw
them besides the High Priests, and a few other priests.

One thing you are also omitting is that the Ark of the Covenant upon which
blood was sprinkled for the atonement of the sins of the Nation, it too was a
replica of what was in heaven as well as the Holy of Holies.

It sure would behove you and others to actually read the scriptures and see
what God has to say through HIS Word to men for our understanding of who He
is.

Jesus, who is Our High Priest, for ever and ever and always, immediately
after he was risen from the dead went to the temple and sprinkled His blood
upon the Ark of the Covenant in Heaven for the sins of all men who choose to
believe upon him by Faith, Then he returned, next seen walking on the road
with two of his disciples, who did not recognize him at the moment.

If mankind only knew of the ultimate price He paid for us, we would not be
living as we do.

I would that you might see Him and not mere men, and their religion that
supplants worshipping Him who died for us, as well as our Heavenly Father.
That goes for your woman friend as well.

[zeb...@windstream.net]

You have got to read a verse WITHIN CONTEXT if you are going to get
the true meaning of the Bible. Otherwise you can mislead yourself, and
I am sure you don't want to do that.

Yes Ex 20:4 in the KJV reads,

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of
any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
that is in the water under the earth."

But notice the next verse, 5a,

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:"

Thus God didn't say a person couldn't draw a picture of a tree or
something. God said that 'worshipping' a tree or any thing else other
than God, was wrong.

Sincerely James
JW's in the holocaust
Go to jw.org

[P+Barker]

What about it?
'The very condition of a deconstruction may be at work in the work,
within the system to be deconstructed. It may already be located
there, already at work. Not at the center, but in an eccentric center,
in a corner whose eccentricity assures the solid concentration of the
system, participating in the construction of what it, at the same
time, threatens to deconstruct. One might then be inclined to reach
this conclusion: deconstruction is not an operation that supervenes
afterwards, from the outside, one fine day. It is always already at
work in the work. Since the destructive force of Deconstruction is
always already contained within the very architecture of the work, all
one would finally have to do to be able to deconstruct, given this
always already, is to do memory work. Yet since I want neither to
accept nor to reject a conclusion formulated in precisely these terms,
let us leave this question suspended for the moment.'

[P+Barker]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 12:03:54 +1100, Michael McLean

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I don't think the bible says that.

>Exactly what has been going on for more than a millennia. Remember the
>Pharisees making up their own rules? For instance, regarding the Sabbath.
>
>You can't light a fire on the Sabbath, you must light it the day before,
>or you can't light one at all. A bit like the Chlistern morals of
>today, you can say "poop," but you can't say "shit," but you can say "crap."

Actually, our first ammendment says we can say what we like.

[P+Barker]

Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> wrote:

>On Jan 27, 2023, P+Barker wrote

I gave you correct information.
I quoted the King James Bible, dufus.

If you wish to debate me, provide an example.

[P+Barker]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 21:02:18 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>

Let me say this in a clear manner.
You snatched one small verse from the Bible.
You did not read any further.
Then you made up some conclusion from your own mind.

I do NOT accept your interpretaion of sacred scripture.
And you can't prove it is actually the word of God.
Maybe you can get with bobbo, have a convo with his god, and then get
back to me about what he told you.

[P+Barker]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 12:06:41 +1100, Michael McLean

I do not command anyone anymore.
However, I can give you good advice if you have a question.

[P+Barker]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 17:12:13 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
wrote:

Perhaps you may listen to what I say and stop yer whining. \People
sometimes judge others by what they do and believe.
Do you drool a lot?

[Rod_B]

Scriptures does not lend itself to anyones private interpretation.

> And you can't prove it is actually the word of God.

And herein lies the problem with you.

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 28, 2023, P+Barker wrote
(in article<bacathtngfln43gto...@4ax.com>):

I already did that a few months back as the RCC list of commandments drops
one and splits another into two commandments. You looked at it and could not
even tell the difference, that is how keen you powers of observation are.

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 28, 2023, Rod_B wrote
(in article <tr3fgu$29brs$1...@dont-email.me>):

Yes, and so it is. :(

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 28, 2023, P+Barker wrote
(in article<hocathl111q30rpor...@4ax.com>):

> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 17:12:13 -0800, Dr. Who<dr....@biosphere.orb>
> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 27, 2023, P+Barker wrote
> > (in article<s5s8th5lk6g8rb1k9...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > Catholics do not "WORSHIP" crosses, pictures of Mary, metal, etc.
> >
> > Full Parrotosis mode, ;)
> > Are you drooling at the mouth too?
>
> Perhaps

Thank you for your Freudian slip.

[servant]

Ding ding ding, friend james you got it. The additional verse you
mentioned only adds to what you just said, False gods is the point or
making an aimage as an idol to represent them and to bow before it.
Christ and other figures in scripture are *not* false gods. Any graphical
representation of them is thus *not* to have an idol and worship it.

Those who take the ""don't have" images alone out of the verses before and
after make the mistake of context.

[P+Barker]

Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> wrote:

>On Jan 28, 2023, P+Barker wrote

according to bobbo, the head troll here.
Isn't the OT written and observed as Mosaic Law?
Why don't you follow the commandments that Jesus gave us?

[P+Barker]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 09:38:06 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>

And yet you are trying to tell me your interpretation of it.
What up with that?

>> And you can't prove it is actually the word of God.
>
> And herein lies the problem with you.

OK, I'll bite.....

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 28, 2023, servant wrote
(in article<63d56749$0$2227$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):

Such as the wall of shame in Orthodox Churches prominent in their Chapels?

[Rod_B]

I agree with the interpretation, but it isn't mine, I didn't write
it. The value of those words are already assigned. It is His interpretation
that you are rejecting which automatically becomes disobedience upon
rejection.

> What up with that?
>
>
>>> And you can't prove it is actually the word of God.

Oh indeed we can! Those words come from His heart which
is His wish that ALL His people have an abundant life
filled with love and compassion and wisdom.

It is a spiritual concept on a level few people enjoy.

[Michael McLean]

Yeah, that's it.

What about the condition of worshiping one's self?

> 'The very condition of a deconstruction may be at work in the work,
> within the system to be deconstructed. It may already be located
> there, already at work. Not at the center, but in an eccentric center,
> in a corner whose eccentricity assures the solid concentration of the
> system, participating in the construction of what it, at the same
> time, threatens to deconstruct. One might then be inclined to reach
> this conclusion: deconstruction is not an operation that supervenes
> afterwards, from the outside, one fine day. It is always already at
> work in the work. Since the destructive force of Deconstruction is
> always already contained within the very architecture of the work, all
> one would finally have to do to be able to deconstruct, given this
> always already, is to do memory work. Yet since I want neither to
> accept nor to reject a conclusion formulated in precisely these terms,
> let us leave this question suspended for the moment.'

Brilliant, but for whom, and what?

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

[Michael McLean]

Men do indeed make up their own rules, and the bible describes it as
"doing what is right in their own eyes."

>> Exactly what has been going on for more than a millennia. Remember the
>> Pharisees making up their own rules? For instance, regarding the Sabbath.
>>
>> You can't light a fire on the Sabbath, you must light it the day before,
>> or you can't light one at all. A bit like the Chlistern morals of
>> today, you can say "poop," but you can't say "shit," but you can say "crap."
>
> Actually, our first ammendment says we can say what we like.

Yes, yes, good luck with that...Patrick.

[Michael McLean]

A good adviser knows the question and the answer.

In the gospels you can find one. However, a sinner cannot give good
advice; only what seemingly appears to be good advice.

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 28, 2023, P+Barker wrote

(in article<f8vathpcc5rpetqdg...@4ax.com>):

You have no social redeeming value.

Not according to me, the Torah is the Law books. Figure it out. The name Old
Covenant covers the dispensation of time that believers were under the Law of
Moses. It is really too bad you never learned anything.

And now that I am the Head Troll here, appointed by Patrick Barker, I am
ordering you to cease and desist in any future troll posts.

[Ollie Smth]

On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 5:56:57 AM UTC+11, Dr. Who wrote:
> eikōn

>
> i-kone’
>
> From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>
> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>
> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.

We categorically object to any form of idolatry.

On idolatry, the Catechism clearly enunciates the following -

"... The worship of the one God sets man free from turning in on himself, from the slavery of sin and the idolatry of the world....

... The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God.
Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, (of) silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see."
These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."
God, however, is the "living God" who gives life and intervenes in history ...

... Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith.
Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God.
Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."
Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast" refusing even to simulate such worship.
Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God....

... Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense.
An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."...

... Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God.
It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic...".

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 28, 2023, Ollie Smth wrote
(in article<69a4e901-3caf-4f0e...@googlegroups.com>):

> On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 5:56:57 AM UTC+11, Dr. Who wrote:
> > eikōn
> >
> > i-kone’
> >
> > From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
> > (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
> >
> > Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
> >
> > Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>
> We categorically object to any form of idolatry.

“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous
man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of
God.” (Eph 5:5, KJV)

To covet is to be an idolator. Why is that not listed?

Remember the snake that was lifted up on the pole?

Do you know what happened to it and why?

I have seen the pope all the way down to the local lay person bend the knee
to a statue, painting, etc. of Mary. X themselves before her, as well as many
other things.

I see many who are fighters, boxers, etc. kiss their cross and x themselves
before a fight.

I have seen many other things done before objects of worship like lighting
candles, incense, and even an occasional food offering. I have seen Europeans
stop at coves where small statues were set and pray in front of them, same
thing with dripping myra, pictures of “their lady of.....” On pancakes,
walls, trees, aged paint on the sides of bldgs, and on and on it goes. Crowds
throng about such things, Chapels are built, but where it any Priest telling
them to back off as it is against your catechisms?

I see the Pope and cardinals blessing trinkets for people to wear and the
items being sold. I see the prayer beads marked up when a Pope mass blesses
boxes of them. There used to be a lot of bobble head saints, Mary, etc. on
dashboards. It was best to pray to them while you re driving down a dirt road
with their little heads nodding yes to all the things you pray for.

Yet none of those people fear God.

So tell me, the stuff you wrote about below, what good is it?

Unless the Spirit of God resides in a persons heart, and unless they are
yielded to God and renew their minds, they will be unchanged. Just like all
the good little boys and girls who graduated from catechism classes, and went
thru the following rituals then go out an have sex, covet things, and all the
numerous things that any heathen child does. What does it matter as you all
are breeding hypocrites.

Wishful thinking is nice but that is it.

Past time to wake up and smell the coffee.

[Ollie Smth]

Please stop being presumptuous without checking where we stand regards idolatry.
The examples given above do not take into account variations between ancient and modern practices of worship.

> So tell me, the stuff you wrote about below, what good is it?

The statements quoted set out the beliefs we uphold; in this instance regarding idolatry.

We believe that there is only one God.
Therefore we cannot, must no, and do not worship any other god.
Shema.

> Unless the Spirit of God resides in a persons heart, and unless they are
> yielded to God and renew their minds, they will be unchanged. Just like all
> the good little boys and girls who graduated from catechism classes, and went
> thru the following rituals then go out an have sex, covet things, and all the
> numerous things that any heathen child does. What does it matter as you all
> are breeding hypocrites.

We believe that the Holy Spirit is the comforter etc.
" ... Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him.
"Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the HOLY SPIRIT WHO MOVES THE HEART and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and 'makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.'"..." Catechism.

[Michael McLean]

On 29/01/2023 1:09 pm, Ollie Smth wrote:
> On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 5:56:57 AM UTC+11, Dr. Who wrote:
>> eikōn
>>
>> i-kone’
>>
>> From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>
>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>
>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>
> We categorically object to any form of idolatry.

That may be so, but to put something before God (sin) is idolatry.

No so "categorical" when it is put that way, is it.





Mike

>
> On idolatry, the Catechism clearly enunciates the following -
>
> "... The worship of the one God sets man free from turning in on himself, from the slavery of sin and the idolatry of the world....
>
> ... The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God.
> Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, (of) silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see."
> These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."
> God, however, is the "living God" who gives life and intervenes in history ...
>
> ... Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith.
> Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God.
> Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."
> Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast" refusing even to simulate such worship.
> Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God....
>
> ... Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense.
> An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."...
>
> ... Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God.
> It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic...".

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 28, 2023, Ollie Smth wrote

(in article<0727b6c3-0b0d-464b...@googlegroups.com>):

Has God changed? Does His policies vary? Is He not the same yesterday, today,
and forever?

I see your arguments of today, speaking veneration and not idolatry. I am
sorry, but a pig with lipstick on it is still a pig. When a person bows,
bends the knee, etc. Biblically that is worship, whether it be before a king,
as the king is due, or before a religious statue which is then an idol, or an
ikon, picture, etc.

And as far as being presumptuous? When I see how a person behaves and they
exhibit all these things, then their hears at in it.

>
>
> > So tell me, the stuff you wrote about below, what good is it?
>
> The statements quoted set out the beliefs we uphold; in this instance
> regarding idolatry.
>
> We believe that there is only one God.
> Therefore we cannot, must no, and do not worship any other god.
> Shema.

Yet the statue, picture, ikon of the same is NOT God. The devils believe
there is one God.

>
>
> > Unless the Spirit of God resides in a persons heart, and unless they are
> > yielded to God and renew their minds, they will be unchanged. Just like all
> > the good little boys and girls who graduated from catechism classes, and
> > went
> > thru the following rituals then go out an have sex, covet things, and all
> > the
> > numerous things that any heathen child does. What does it matter as you all
> > are breeding hypocrites.
>
> We believe that the Holy Spirit is the comforter etc.

Really? In what way?

>
> " ... Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him.
> "Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move
> and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the HOLY SPIRIT WHO MOVES
> THE HEART and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and 'makes
> it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.'"..." Catechism.

That statement is awfully close to what the Bible teaches and yet you argued
with me about that exact same subject. However, I said that Faith is the
first Gift of God that is given to a sinner, in order to believe. What you
suggested appears as if it is forced upon a man by moving his heart. Where is
the will of man in all of that? Born Again ia what Jesus and his disciples
taught. And that went hand in hand with “Whosoever wills”.

I have had more than one RC oppose what you just said, and denied having a
Holy Spirit within them. And some of them right here in these NG’s.

Roy, there are a lot of people that have gone from one religion to another in
these NG’s, and a high percentage of atheists who were brought up as RC who
chose not to believe any of it. And if one listens to their reasoning, a good
deal of the time it is the catechism that brainwashed them and they still
think that they are the “One True Church” and they feel that anyone who
speaks to them as a “christian” must be of RC dogma. Which further
reduces the ability to communicate with them as their mind translates what
you say into RCC dogma. And they are unable to see it any other way.

You too have have been a searcher, but why not a searcher of the Heavenly
Father? He through Jesus Christ is the only one who can satisfy your soul.
Fill you with the peace that passes all human understanding, and makes if a
total joy to read his word, no matter the reason one reads it. Then it is a
person can feel the dynamite power surging in ones spirit and soul.

[P+Barker]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:00:13 +1100, Michael McLean

Are you speaking about the sin of pride?

>
>> 'The very condition of a deconstruction may be at work in the work,
>> within the system to be deconstructed. It may already be located
>> there, already at work. Not at the center, but in an eccentric center,
>> in a corner whose eccentricity assures the solid concentration of the
>> system, participating in the construction of what it, at the same
>> time, threatens to deconstruct. One might then be inclined to reach
>> this conclusion: deconstruction is not an operation that supervenes
>> afterwards, from the outside, one fine day. It is always already at
>> work in the work. Since the destructive force of Deconstruction is
>> always already contained within the very architecture of the work, all
>> one would finally have to do to be able to deconstruct, given this
>> always already, is to do memory work. Yet since I want neither to
>> accept nor to reject a conclusion formulated in precisely these terms,
>> let us leave this question suspended for the moment.'
>
>Brilliant, but for whom, and what?
>Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Thas whut ahm tokkin bout.

[P+Barker]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:13:19 +1100, Michael McLean

Reference please.

[P+Barker]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 16:10:20 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>

And you are a waste of food.

>Not according to me, the Torah is the Law books. Figure it out. The name Old
>Covenant covers the dispensation of time that believers were under the Law of
>Moses. It is really too bad you never learned anything.

Isn't the OT written and observed as Mosaic Law?
Why don't you follow the commandments that Jesus gave us?

>And now that I am the Head Troll here, appointed by Patrick Barker, I am
>ordering you to cease and desist in any future troll posts.

Head trolls have no authority.

[P+Barker]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 16:59:38 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>

(YAWN)
Who assigns the value of bad interpretations of holy scripture?
You?

>> What up with that?
>>
>>
>>>> And you can't prove it is actually the word of God.
>
> Oh indeed we can! Those words come from His heart which
> is His wish that ALL His people have an abundant life
> filled with love and compassion and wisdom.
> It is a spiritual concept on a level few people enjoy.

Then it must suck to be you.
God has been very very good to me.

[P+Barker]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:17:52 +1100, Michael McLean

That is bull shit.
If you have ever been a leader with authority, you will find that
new and different problems arise all the time. Why do you think we
have legislators?
As a military leader, I had numerous NEW problems rise all the time.
Like the time some of the "good ol" boys took the aircraft tow vehicle
(4 wheeler) into the woods and did some mud sliding. Or the time the
"good ol" boys took rag mops, lit them on fire, and hung them from the
second story balcony to scare my (black) troops on the first floor. Or
the time I discovered my cleric had hidden work in his bottom drawer
for weeks because he didn't want to do it. Or when one hydraulic
specialist murdered his wife in base housing? Or when I had to inform
a wife and her teen age child that their dad died in a motorcycle
accident.

>In the gospels you can find one. However, a sinner cannot give good
>advice; only what seemingly appears to be good advice.

Then you need to stop trying.
Me? i'M GOOD TO GO.

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On 28 Jan 2023 18:19:53 GMT, servant wrote:

Nice Morning,

The key theme here is WORSHIP. The Catholic church puts before its
flock, statues coming out of their ears. This could induce false
worship to those weak in the faith, esp the Virgin Mary. I have
personally seen people praying to Mary to relay it to God. Yet Mary's
own Son, Jesus, said:

-- New King James
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through Me.

So Mary likely in Heaven with Jesus, would not accept prayers said to
her to tell God.

Sincerely James
JW's in the holocaust
Go to jw.org

[Rod_B]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> I agree with the interpretation, but it isn't mine, I didn't write
>> it. The value of those words are already assigned. It is His interpretation
>> that you are rejecting which automatically becomes disobedience upon
>> rejection.
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

> (YAWN)
> Who assigns the value of bad interpretations of holy scripture?
> You?
>

The answer is between the dotted lines, ding dong.

>
>
>>> What up with that?
>>>
>>>
>>>>> And you can't prove it is actually the word of God.
>>
>> Oh indeed we can! Those words come from His heart which
>> is His wish that ALL His people have an abundant life
>> filled with love and compassion and wisdom.
>> It is a spiritual concept on a level few people enjoy.
>
> Then it must suck to be you.
> God has been very very good to me.

By the sound of it you haven't been good to Him .

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 29, 2023, P+Barker wrote
(in article<rppcth9qqmlnj0215...@4ax.com>):

Then do as I said and quit throwing out troll bait.

>
>
> > Not according to me, the Torah is the Law books. Figure it out. The name Old
> > Covenant covers the dispensation of time that believers were under the Law
> > of
> > Moses. It is really too bad you never learned anything.
>
> Isn't the OT written and observed as Mosaic Law?

Parts of it. To bad you never read it all so that you could know.

>
> Why don't you follow the commandments that Jesus gave us?

You don’t even have a clue what they are. Even if you do a search and then
cut n paste, you still wouldn’t know. As it is not in your heart to do.

>
>
> > And now that I am the Head Troll here, appointed by Patrick Barker, I am
> > ordering you to cease and desist in any future troll posts.
>
> Head trolls have no authority.

You cannot take back what you said. You are stuck being a commoner.

[Michael McLean]

Worshiping one's self is idolatry, particularly because it pisses on all
that God is.

>>
>>> 'The very condition of a deconstruction may be at work in the work,
>>> within the system to be deconstructed. It may already be located
>>> there, already at work. Not at the center, but in an eccentric center,
>>> in a corner whose eccentricity assures the solid concentration of the
>>> system, participating in the construction of what it, at the same
>>> time, threatens to deconstruct. One might then be inclined to reach
>>> this conclusion: deconstruction is not an operation that supervenes
>>> afterwards, from the outside, one fine day. It is always already at
>>> work in the work. Since the destructive force of Deconstruction is
>>> always already contained within the very architecture of the work, all
>>> one would finally have to do to be able to deconstruct, given this
>>> always already, is to do memory work. Yet since I want neither to
>>> accept nor to reject a conclusion formulated in precisely these terms,
>>> let us leave this question suspended for the moment.'
>>
>> Brilliant, but for whom, and what?
>> Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.
>
> Thas whut ahm tokkin bout.

If waffling bullshit is good for the goose, it is good for the gander.

[Michael McLean]

I am aghast that you wouldn't already know and see it with your own
eyes, anyway! You accuse Bobbo Bingbo Baggins of that all the time, and
in that case, you are right.

https://www.openbible.info/topics/what_is_right_in_our_own_eyes

And before you accuse me of the same thing...

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

...if you are not happy with that, you can take that up with the Lord
when you are being judged.





Mike

>
>
>>>> Exactly what has been going on for more than a millennia. Remember the
>>>> Pharisees making up their own rules? For instance, regarding the Sabbath.
>>>>
>>>> You can't light a fire on the Sabbath, you must light it the day before,
>>>> or you can't light one at all. A bit like the Chlistern morals of
>>>> today, you can say "poop," but you can't say "shit," but you can say "crap."
>>>
>>> Actually, our first ammendment says we can say what we like.
>>
>> Yes, yes, good luck with that...Patrick.
>

[Michael McLean]

The Lord Jesus is a "good adviser" and He doesn't have a problem with that.

> If you have ever been a leader with authority, you will find that
> new and different problems arise all the time. Why do you think we
> have legislators?

The only leader with authority I acknowledge is the Lord.

You lot don't even have an answer, let alone know the question.

> As a military leader, I had numerous NEW problems rise all the time.

You are not good.

> Like the time some of the "good ol" boys took the aircraft tow vehicle
> (4 wheeler) into the woods and did some mud sliding. Or the time the
> "good ol" boys took rag mops, lit them on fire, and hung them from the
> second story balcony to scare my (black) troops on the first floor. Or
> the time I discovered my cleric had hidden work in his bottom drawer
> for weeks because he didn't want to do it. Or when one hydraulic
> specialist murdered his wife in base housing? Or when I had to inform
> a wife and her teen age child that their dad died in a motorcycle
> accident.

You were only playing in a matrix of man knows what's best, and we know,
you don't. You should see that by the nature of the problems befalling
you. And...what...you are the Saviour, the "Good Advisor?"

Heck, is there ever going to be a lot of shock going on around here when
the Lord turns on the light in this dark world!

>> In the gospels you can find one. However, a sinner cannot give good
>> advice; only what seemingly appears to be good advice.
>
> Then you need to stop trying.

It is not my advice, just like it is not my righteousness.

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

> Me? i'M GOOD TO GO.

No...no, you are not.

But you can tell yourself that if you like.

[P+Barker]

Michael McLean <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:


>>> What about the condition of worshiping one's self?
>>
>> Are you speaking about the sin of pride?
>
>Worshiping one's self is idolatry, particularly because it pisses on all
>that God is.

I hope there won't be a quiz in the morning.
I'll never be able to repeat that. It is stupid.

[P+Barker]

Your "Strong's Concordance" is getting a workout, I see.
Just because there is a short phrase someplace in the bible, this does
not justify what you claim.
But.... go for it.
"bobbo."

[P+Barker]

Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> wrote:

>On Jan 29, 2023, P+Barker wrote

>> > > Isn't the OT written and observed as Mosaic Law?
>> > > Why don't you follow the commandments that Jesus gave us?
>> >
>> > You have no social redeeming value.
>>
>> And you are a waste of food.
>
>Then do as I said and quit throwing out troll bait.

Stop snatching it up and eating it.
Save some for mikey.

>> > Not according to me, the Torah is the Law books. Figure it out. The name Old
>> > Covenant covers the dispensation of time that believers were under the Law
>> > of
>> > Moses. It is really too bad you never learned anything.
>>
>> Isn't the OT written and observed as Mosaic Law?
>
>Parts of it. To bad you never read it all so that you could know.

Do you mean "to bad" or "too bad?"
Learn to spell.

BTW, I've read it all. Doesn't mean that I memorized it or follow it
like an owner's manual.

>> Why don't you follow the commandments that Jesus gave us?
>
>You don’t even have a clue what they are. Even if you do a search and then
>cut n paste, you still wouldn’t know. As it is not in your heart to do.

Ask me. I'll help you out.

>> Head Troll here, appointed by Patrick Barker, I am
>> > ordering you to cease and desist in any future troll posts.
>>
>> Head trolls have no authority.
>
>You cannot take back what you said. You are stuck being a commoner.

Yup. I am not part of the troll herd.

[P+Barker]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 08:48:51 +1100, Michael McLean

Jesus is not the ONLY advisor.

>> If you have ever been a leader with authority, you will find that
>> new and different problems arise all the time. Why do you think we
>> have legislators?
>
>The only leader with authority I acknowledge is the Lord.

LIAR.
You observe the speed limits.
You observe your own laws of the land.
Or you would be sitting next to greggo in jail.

>You lot don't even have an answer, let alone know the question.

Yup. I don't know all the questions.
You dorks keep coming up with new ones.

>> As a military leader, I had numerous NEW problems rise all the time.
>
>You are not good.

Your opinion, not mine.
shaddup, bobbo

>> Like the time some of the "good ol" boys took the aircraft tow vehicle
>> (4 wheeler) into the woods and did some mud sliding. Or the time the
>> "good ol" boys took rag mops, lit them on fire, and hung them from the
>> second story balcony to scare my (black) troops on the first floor. Or
>> the time I discovered my cleric had hidden work in his bottom drawer
>> for weeks because he didn't want to do it. Or when one hydraulic
>> specialist murdered his wife in base housing? Or when I had to inform
>> a wife and her teen age child that their dad died in a motorcycle
>> accident.
>
>You were only playing in a matrix of man knows what's best, and we know,
>you don't. You should see that by the nature of the problems befalling
>you. And...what...you are the Saviour, the "Good Advisor?"

As a commander and a leader of several hundred aircraft technicians, I
do not claim to be a savior. However, I am a person who can solve
problems and snswer tough questions.

>Heck, is there ever going to be a lot of shock going on around here when
>the Lord turns on the light in this dark world!

The Lord hasn't shown you the light yet?
Wow.
Life must suck for you.

>>> In the gospels you can find one. However, a sinner cannot give good
>>> advice; only what seemingly appears to be good advice.
>>
>> Then you need to stop trying.
>
>It is not my advice, just like it is not my righteousness.

Then don't try to give me advice.

>"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
>where God intends."

Look, bobbo, you are not special to God.
No more than any other person on earth.
And what you think is revealed to you is coming from Satan.
Stop listening to him.'

>> Me? i'M GOOD TO GO.
>
>No...no, you are not.
>But you can tell yourself that if you like.

God tells me this.

[Michael McLean]

On 30/01/2023 10:42 am, P+Barker wrote:
> Michael McLean <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>> What about the condition of worshiping one's self?
>>>
>>> Are you speaking about the sin of pride?

Mike wrote:
>> Worshiping one's self is idolatry, particularly because it pisses on all
>> that God is.

Patrick wrote:
> I hope there won't be a quiz in the morning.
> I'll never be able to repeat that. It is stupid.

Ye can do the usual Patrick dance if you like.

[Michael McLean]

It was the open bible available to all on the net.

> Just because there is a short phrase someplace in the bible, this does
> not justify what you claim.
> But.... go for it.
> "bobbo."

You can do the usual Patrick dance if you like. "You can do what is

right in your own eyes."

Mike

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

[Michael McLean]

He is as far as I am concerned; the only good one.

Many try to be, like you are now, but sorry you don't cut the mustard.

>>> If you have ever been a leader with authority, you will find that
>>> new and different problems arise all the time. Why do you think we
>>> have legislators?
>>
>> The only leader with authority I acknowledge is the Lord.
>
> LIAR.

You can make the choice if you like.

Again, "If you are not happy with that, you can take that up with the

Lord when you are being judged."

> You observe the speed limits.
> You observe your own laws of the land.
> Or you would be sitting next to greggo in jail.

So man's speed limits et al. rule the universe, do they? Thanks for
that "good advice."

I do what the Lord tells me to do. He tells me not to do 60 miles an
hour through a school zone because I might mow down a child. If I am
driving down the highway He tells to be careful to follow the speed
limit to minimize the potential of killing my neighbour.

You are under law, I am under love...big difference.

>> You lot don't even have an answer, let alone know the question.
>
> Yup. I don't know all the questions.
> You dorks keep coming up with new ones.

You don't have an answer to anything because you don't know the
question. Only the Lord knows.

>>> As a military leader, I had numerous NEW problems rise all the time.
>>
>> You are not good.
>
> Your opinion, not mine.
> shaddup, bobbo

You are not the good advisor. The Lord Jesus is the good advisor; all
the glory is His.

>>> Like the time some of the "good ol" boys took the aircraft tow vehicle
>>> (4 wheeler) into the woods and did some mud sliding. Or the time the
>>> "good ol" boys took rag mops, lit them on fire, and hung them from the
>>> second story balcony to scare my (black) troops on the first floor. Or
>>> the time I discovered my cleric had hidden work in his bottom drawer
>>> for weeks because he didn't want to do it. Or when one hydraulic
>>> specialist murdered his wife in base housing? Or when I had to inform
>>> a wife and her teen age child that their dad died in a motorcycle
>>> accident.
>>
>> You were only playing in a matrix of man knows what's best, and we know,
>> you don't. You should see that by the nature of the problems befalling
>> you. And...what...you are the Saviour, the "Good Advisor?"
>
> As a commander and a leader of several hundred aircraft technicians, I
> do not claim to be a savior. However, I am a person who can solve
> problems and snswer tough questions.

No, you aren't, because you are operating in a fallen world matrix. You
are screwed from the outset no matter what you do.

You can't seem to absorb that because your world is all about you, but
the spiritual life in God is all about Him.

>> Heck, is there ever going to be a lot of shock going on around here when
>> the Lord turns on the light in this dark world!
>
> The Lord hasn't shown you the light yet?
> Wow.
> Life must suck for you.

I said the above because He has and does.

>
>
>>>> In the gospels you can find one. However, a sinner cannot give good
>>>> advice; only what seemingly appears to be good advice.
>>>
>>> Then you need to stop trying.
>>
>> It is not my advice, just like it is not my righteousness.
>
> Then don't try to give me advice.

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."



>> "I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
>> where God intends."
>
> Look, bobbo, you are not special to God.
> No more than any other person on earth.
> And what you think is revealed to you is coming from Satan.
> Stop listening to him.'

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

That is the only agenda I have, Mr Good Advisor.

>
>
>>> Me? i'M GOOD TO GO.
>>
>> No...no, you are not.

>> But you can tell yourself that if you like.
>
> God tells me this.

I find that hard to believe, Bobbo.

Time for you to run for the hills. The more you are told it is not all
about you, the more uncomfortable you get; run of the mill for Bobbo
Christendom.

Mike

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

[Ollie Smth]

Customs and practices vary over time and place.

For instance, bowing in ancient times was their way of practicing worship.
These days, it is used as a mark of respect etc.
In my country bowing is expected in courts of law or in parliaments and similar circumstances - doesn't mean that attendees are participating in worship.
In the Far East, asian culture often practices bowing which not considered as worship.

Worship is what takes up our time, energy, and money.
The object of such worship may take any form.

Colossians identify the following -
" ... fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry ..." Col 3:5

Jesus said, "...Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind....".Mat 22:37.

> And as far as being presumptuous? When I see how a person behaves and they
> exhibit all these things, then their hears at in it.
> >
> >
> > > So tell me, the stuff you wrote about below, what good is it?
> >
> > The statements quoted set out the beliefs we uphold; in this instance
> > regarding idolatry.
> >
> > We believe that there is only one God.
> > Therefore we cannot, must no, and do not worship any other god.
> > Shema.
> Yet the statue, picture, ikon of the same is NOT God. The devils believe
> there is one God.

Absolutely.

[P+Barker]

Michael McLean <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:


>>>>> A good adviser knows the question and the answer.
>>>>
>>>> That is bull shit.
>>>
>>> The Lord Jesus is a "good adviser" and He doesn't have a problem with that.
>>
>> Jesus is not the ONLY advisor.
>
>He is as far as I am concerned; the only good one.

Did He teach you how to talk, to speak, to walk, to share, to show
respect for others, to have dignity, honesty, and respect?

>Many try to be, like you are now, but sorry you don't cut the mustard.

What does that even mean?

>>> The only leader with authority I acknowledge is the Lord.
>>
>> LIAR.
>
>You can make the choice if you like.
>Again, "If you are not happy with that, you can take that up with the
>Lord when you are being judged."
>
>> You observe the speed limits.
>> You observe your own laws of the land.
>> Or you would be sitting next to greggo in jail.
>
>So man's speed limits et al. rule the universe, do they? Thanks for
>that "good advice."

Another perfect example of you being stupid.
You claimed "The only leader with authority I acknowledge is the
Lord." And I call you a LIAR. You certainly acknowlege authority
other than Jesus. Just saying.

>I do what the Lord tells me to do. He tells me not to do 60 miles an
>hour through a school zone because I might mow down a child.

When did He tell you this?
Are you sure that "MAYBE" your mom taught you to respect the civil
law, and God says we should love everyone?

>If I am
>driving down the highway He tells to be careful to follow the speed
>limit to minimize the potential of killing my neighbour.

When did He tell you this?
Are you sure that "MAYBE" your mom taught you to respect the civil
law, and God says we should love everyone?

>You are under law, I am under love...big difference.

Speak for yourself. Do not speak for me, bobbo.

>>> You lot don't even have an answer, let alone know the question.
>>
>> Yup. I don't know all the questions.
>> You dorks keep coming up with new ones.
>
>You don't have an answer to anything because you don't know the
>question. Only the Lord knows.

God gave me common sense, intelligence, and the ability to reason.

>>>> As a military leader, I had numerous NEW problems rise all the time.
>>>
>>> You are not good.
>>
>> Your opinion, not mine.
>> shaddup, bobbo
>
>You are not the good advisor. The Lord Jesus is the good advisor; all
>the glory is His.

I never said I was "THE" good advisor.

>> As a commander and a leader of several hundred aircraft technicians, I
>> do not claim to be a savior. However, I am a person who can solve

>> problems and answer tough questions.

>
>No, you aren't, because you are operating in a fallen world matrix. You
>are screwed from the outset no matter what you do.

If that is what you believe, then it must suck to be you.

>You can't seem to absorb that because your world is all about you, but
>the spiritual life in God is all about Him.

If that is what you believe, then it must suck to be you.

>>> Heck, is there ever going to be a lot of shock going on around here when
>>> the Lord turns on the light in this dark world!
>>
>> The Lord hasn't shown you the light yet?
>> Wow.
>> Life must suck for you.
>
>I said the above because He has and does.

"has and does?"
You said the world would be shocked.
You and bobbo are the only two have seen the light?

>>>>> In the gospels you can find one. However, a sinner cannot give good
>>>>> advice; only what seemingly appears to be good advice.
>>>>
>>>> Then you need to stop trying.
>>>
>>> It is not my advice, just like it is not my righteousness.
>>
>> Then don't try to give me advice.
>
>"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
>where God intends."

Yo, bobbo.... Do you have an altar in your living room?

>"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
>where God intends."
>That is the only agenda I have, Mr Good Advisor.

Yo, bobbo.... Do you have an altar in your living room?

>>>> Me? i'M GOOD TO GO.
>>>
>>> No...no, you are not.
>
>>> But you can tell yourself that if you like.
>>
>> God tells me this.
>
>I find that hard to believe, Bobbo.
>
>Time for you to run for the hills. The more you are told it is not all
>about you, the more uncomfortable you get; run of the mill for Bobbo
>Christendom.

Then... stop it.

[pyotr filipivich]

Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Sat, 28 Jan 2023 00:51:21 -0800
typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>On Jan 27, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
>(in article<8ea9thlk1ll0mec9f...@4ax.com>):
>
>> Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com> on Fri, 27 Jan 2023 14:50:58 -0600
>> typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:

>> > On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>> > > On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who<dr....@biosphere.orb>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > eiko?n

>> > > > i-kone
>> > > > From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>> > > > (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>> > > > Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>> > > > Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.

>> > > When is a statue considered a graven image?
>> > > When bobbo sez so.

And he is very dogmatic about it, too.

>> > But he is right Patrick. nearly every religion created by man has
>> > made images of one kind or another, from the anti deluvian
>> > civilizations all the way thru to Christianity.

>> > Exo_20:4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the

>> > likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath,

>> > nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.

>> Now read a little further, where the Lord God Himself instructs
>> His people to make images to adorn His tabernacle.
>>
>> Not to mention the Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant.
>
>Yet they are not objects of worship, Never were. On top of all that, who saw
>them besides the High Priests, and a few other priests.

I seem to recall but wasn't the Ark of the Covenant borne before
all the tribes? And when the tribes went into battle? (Do brass mice
and hemmeroids bring anything to mind?)

But then again, Robert does seem to have this inability to
understand the difference between worship and respect (along with a
whole list of other words), so I'll leave it to him to explain why
images of angles and the like, placed in the tabernacle at God's
Command, are not idols, but pictures are.
>
>One thing you are also omitting is that the Ark of the Covenant upon which
>blood was sprinkled for the atonement of the sins of the Nation, it too was a
>replica of what was in heaven as well as the Holy of Holies.

Not sure how the ritual role of the Ark has anything to do with
the making of images, but that's your red herring, you may chase it
wherest thou willst.
>
>It sure would behove you and others to actually read the scriptures and see
>what God has to say through HIS Word to men for our understanding of who He
>is.
>Jesus, who is Our High Priest, for ever and ever and always, immediately
>after he was risen from the dead went to the temple and sprinkled His blood
>upon the Ark of the Covenant in Heaven for the sins of all men who choose to
>believe upon him by Faith, Then he returned, next seen walking on the road
>with two of his disciples, who did not recognize him at the moment.
>If mankind only knew of the ultimate price He paid for us, we would not be
>living as we do.

>
>I would that you might see Him and not mere men, and their religion that
>supplants worshipping Him who died for us, as well as our Heavenly Father.
>That goes for your woman friend as well.

The funny part of this is that I might say the same thing about
Robert (etc) who seem utterly convinced that Jesus was so fortunate to
have them come along and explain what He really meant.
--
pyotr
After the war two Army Chaplains were mustering out. The one said to
the other "Chaplain, it has been a real pleasure serving God with you.
You in your way, and I in His."

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 30, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<t4rfth9oibnvkmuco...@4ax.com>):

> Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Sat, 28 Jan 2023 00:51:21 -0800
> typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> > On Jan 27, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
> > (in article<8ea9thlk1ll0mec9f...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com> on Fri, 27 Jan 2023 14:50:58 -0600
> > > typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> > > > On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who<dr....@biosphere.orb>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > eiko?n
> > > > > > i-kone
> > > > > > From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
> > > > > > (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
> > > > > > Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
> > > > > > Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
> > > > > When is a statue considered a graven image?
> > > > > When bobbo sez so.
>
> And he is very dogmatic about it, too.

God is. In fact when he returns,...

“Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the
midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.”
(Mic 5:13, KJV)

Exo 20:3-5 (KJV)

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likenessof any thing

that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the

water under the earth:

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy

God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children
unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

>
>

> > > > But he is right Patrick. nearly every religion created by man has
> > > > made images of one kind or another, from the anti deluvian
> > > > civilizations all the way thru to Christianity.
> > > > Exo_20:4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the
> > > > likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath,
> > > > nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.
>
> > > Now read a little further, where the Lord God Himself instructs
> > > His people to make images to adorn His tabernacle.
> > >
> > > Not to mention the Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant.
> >
> > Yet they are not objects of worship, Never were. On top of all that, who saw
> > them besides the High Priests, and a few other priests.
>
> I seem to recall but wasn't the Ark of the Covenant borne before
> all the tribes? And when the tribes went into battle? (Do brass mice
> and hemmeroids bring anything to mind?)

In the beginning of the nation, yes. But touch it and you were dead. Plus no
one worshipped it. So your point?

>
>
> But then again, Robert does seem to have this inability to
> understand the difference between worship and respect (along with a
> whole list of other words), so I'll leave it to him to explain why
> images of angles and the like, placed in the tabernacle at God's
> Command, are not idols, but pictures are.

Again, you lack familiarity with the Bible, and also reading comprehension in
these NG’s.

How many times do you need to be told and reminded that "Thou shalt not bow
down thyself to them” to show respect to them, to pray to them, to set them
up in any way.

Jesus also said that when he left we are to pray to the Heavenly Father, not
Him. How many persons are on your list, to pray too?

>
> >
> > One thing you are also omitting is that the Ark of the Covenant upon which
> > blood was sprinkled for the atonement of the sins of the Nation, it too was
> > a
> > replica of what was in heaven as well as the Holy of Holies.
>
> Not sure how the ritual role of the Ark has anything to do with
> the making of images, but that's your red herring, you may chase it
> wherest thou willst.

It is an image of what is in the Temple in Heaven. Shame your reading
comprehension is so lacking.

>
> >
> > It sure would behove you and others to actually read the scriptures and see
> > what God has to say through HIS Word to men for our understanding of who He
> > is.
> > Jesus, who is Our High Priest, for ever and ever and always, immediately
> > after he was risen from the dead went to the temple and sprinkled His blood
> > upon the Ark of the Covenant in Heaven for the sins of all men who choose to
> > believe upon him by Faith, Then he returned, next seen walking on the road
> > with two of his disciples, who did not recognize him at the moment.
> > If mankind only knew of the ultimate price He paid for us, we would not be
> > living as we do.
>
> >
> > I would that you might see Him and not mere men, and their religion that
> > supplants worshipping Him who died for us, as well as our Heavenly Father.
> > That goes for your woman friend as well.
>
> The funny part of this is that I might say the same thing about
> Robert (etc) who seem utterly convinced that Jesus was so fortunate to
> have them come along and explain what He really meant.

Your sour, dour, sarcastic words emanated from you mouth, thus your heart.
Then have nothing to do with me.

[teslaStinker]

Michael McLean <michaelm...@outlook.com> Wrote in message:r
> On 28/01/2023 11:45 am, P+Barker wrote:> On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 10:26:38 +1100, Michael McLean> <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:> >> On 28/01/2023 10:07 am, Rod_B wrote:>>> On 1/27/2023 4:36 PM, P+Barker wrote:>>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 14:50:58 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>>>>> wrote:>>>>>>>>> On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>>>>>>> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eiko?n>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i-kone?>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or>>>>>>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When is a statue considered a graven image?>>>>>> It does not have to be a graven image Patrick. It can be someting>>> as simple as a likeness which does include statues. Read the remainder>>> of the verse below;>>>>>> "nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the>>> earth beneath,">>>> Technically, regarding the scripture you are right, Rod, but it doesn't>> apply anymore.> > That law was made like all laws today are made.> See a problem.I certainly do.> Make a rule.Make up your own rules, or as the Bible says, doing what is right in your own eyes.Exactly what has been going on for more than a millennia. Remember the Pharisees making up their own rules? For instance, regarding the Sabbath.You can't light a fire on the Sabbath, you must light it the day before, or you can't light one at all. A bit like the Chlistern morals of today, you can say "poop," but you can't say "shit," but you can say "crap."Mike-- Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were YET sinners, Christ died for us.Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps."To seek your own will is to seek your own glory.""If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything.""What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God.""All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore, sin is not what you do, it is what you are.""Compromise will condemn you.""There are no sinners in Christ Jesus.""My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all.""You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to know that?""The way of truth is the testimony of life.""I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall where God intends.""Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith.""You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we alllive, by faith.""It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me.""Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, lookahead.""You cannot be free with guilt in your heart.""Priority is everything.""The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence.""There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander it or to place it where it truly belongs.""An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie.""Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to an ignorant straw man.""Wait, rest, be still, and know.""No man can wash his own hands!!!""I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say, and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!""The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is.""Man is not the centre of being.""Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature.""And then the Lord said, "I see everything.""Man has no greater idol than his own will.""Where is God hiding? He isn't.""If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them.""You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's willingness to believe.""Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness, and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose.""The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always full of hope.""The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass through it so that you could play God.""A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today.""The Bible cannot baptize. No one was ever saved by reading the Bible. Mechanical or methodical salvation is just more Pharisee bureaucracy. Men are saved after their conviction, death sentence, and resurrection in baptism--the baptism of the Holy Spirit." - Nightbulb"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such is the love of God.""The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit pretending he is the meaning of life."

I know the real Bible says nothing of the sort.

10:14

10:14. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not
believed? Or how shall they believe him of whom they have not
heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
10:15. And how shall they preach unless they be sent, as it is
written: How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the
gospel of peace, of them that bring glad tidings of good
things?
Unless they be sent.... Here is an evident proof against all new
teachers, who have all usurped to themselves the ministry without
any lawful mission, derived by succession from the apostles, to
whom Christ said, John 20.21, As my Father hath sent me, I also
send you.
10:16. But all do not obey the gospel. For Isaias saith: Lord, who
hath believed our report?
10:16. But all do not obey the gospel. For Isaias saith: Lord, who
hath believed our report?
10:17. Faith then cometh by hearing; and hearing by the word of Christ.
10:18. But I say: Have they not heard? Yes, verily: Their sound
hath gone forth into all the earth: and their words unto the ends
of the whole world.
10:19. But I say: Hath not Israel known? First, Moses saith: I
will provoke you to jealousy by that which is not a nation: by a
foolish nation I will anger you.
10:20. But Isaias is bold, and saith: I was found by them that did
not seek me. I appeared openly to them that asked not after
me.
10:21. But to Israel he saith: All the day long have I spread my
hands to a people that believeth not and contradicteth
me.

Just like your doing now.... you are to follow truth, not lie
about it.

--
Daniel

[pyotr filipivich]

Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com> on Fri, 27 Jan 2023 19:52:22 -0600
typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:

>On 1/27/2023 5:52 PM, servant wrote:
>> Good golly miss molly, quick, someone telll Moses. At God's direction he
>> had pictures of angels put on the temple veil and graven statutes of the
>> same class of angels put on each end of the ark. Let's go to the
>> scripture:

> You need to keep this in memory servant;
> Rev 22:12  Behold, I come quickly: and my reward is with me, to
>render to every, man according to his works.
> Since all those that refused Christ are in the lake of fire,
> this can on mean those in Christ and the things done in His body.

Now, what hath this scripture to do with the images God commanded
to be place about His Tent of Meeting?
--
For many "I am spiritual, not religious".seems the short form of
"I retain the option to adjust my beliefs to fit my lifestyle,
nor be constrained by prior statements about what I said I believe."

[pyotr filipivich]

Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com> on Fri, 27 Jan 2023 18:24:32 -0600

typed in alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox the following:
>On 1/27/2023 5:52 PM, servant wrote:
>> Good golly miss molly, quick, someone telll Moses. At God's direction he
>> had pictures of angels put on the temple veil and graven statutes of the
>> same class of angels put on each end of the ark. Let's go to the
>> scripture:
>>

> No meant no, servant, not yes.

So you have no pictures of Christ, the apostles, your family,
people at church. Because, you know, "images are forbidden."

I wonder sometimes, how these iconoclasts deal with the images of
presidents and kings on the money. Not often, but on occasion.

[pyotr filipivich]

P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com> on Fri, 27 Jan 2023 19:51:22 -0500 typed
in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 15:49:11 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
>wrote:
>>On Jan 27, 2023, P+Barker wrote:
>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:51:00 -0800, Dr. Who<dr....@biosphere.orb> wrote:
>>> > On Jan 27, 2023, P+Barker wrote

>>> > > On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who<dr....@biosphere.orb> wrote:
>>> > > > eiko?n

>>> > > > i-kone’

>>> > > > From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>>> > > > (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>> > > > Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>> > > > Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another realm.
>>> > > When is a statue considered a graven image?

>>> > > When bobbo sez so.
>>> >
>>> > Brittanica Dictionary
>>> > Def: : an object (such as a statue) that is worshipped as a god or in place
>>> > of a god
>>>
>>> OK.
>>> Do you WORSHIP statues?
>>> In case you didn't know, Catholics do NOT worship marble or cement.
>>
>>“Or in place of a god.” Like a little cross, Mary metal, etc,
>Catholics do not "WORSHIP" crosses, pictures of Mary, metal, etc.
>Listen up. You might learn something.

It is amusing, or would be, but apparently, despite the number of
times he's been told Robert is still unable to grasp how different
words mean very different things. Creed vs Commandments, Worship vs
respect. Idols vs images.
>>> > It also applies to statues of Queen Mary, Baseball and Football players in a
>>> > ballpark, or presidential statues.
>>> Do you think people worship statues of football players?
>>Some do, musicians as well. The idolize them. Reverence them, etc. But not as
>>the God of Heaven, yet still as something they dwell on as they idolize them.
>Then go to their newsgroups, and whine to them.
>Catholics do not "WORSHIP" crosses, pictures of Mary, metal, etc.
>Listen up. You might learn something.

>>> > But as far as the objects used religiously as defined above, that is also
>>> > what God calls it.
>>> OK.
>>> Do you WORSHIP statues?
>>> In case you didn't know, Catholics do NOT worship marble or cement.
>>How quickly you revert to Parrot mode.

>I repeat things to stupid people who didn't get what I was saying the
>first time. Catholics do not "WORSHIP" crosses, pictures of Mary,
>metal, etc.
>Listen up. You might learn something.

One must keep in mind: Robert himself declared that he was granted
a revelation that the book he has is Sacred. That is what he
worships, and then only according to his own interpretation of what it
means.
What the Christians have taught and believed for 2000 year is just
something that happened to other people.

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 30, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote

(in article<be5gthddktl0ubhd2...@4ax.com>):

You can repeat that 100 times and it makes no difference. Just because you
claim your religion says it is different that does not make it so.

More words from your mouth, false words.
Why do you pray to Mary? Why do you sing songs to her?

>
> What the Christians have taught and believed for 2000 year is just
> something that happened to other people.

Jesus in regards to the Israelites who taught by the traditions of men, for
near the same amount of time, spoke despairingly as those were not of God,
but of men. Just like yours.

So how about you defending the faith with the words of God and not men. Is it
possible?

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 30, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote

(in article<ov4gth987fvucsj3u...@4ax.com>):

Why present red herrings? Can you not understand the meaning of "for
worshipping purposes”?

>
>
> I wonder sometimes, how these iconoclasts deal with the images of
> presidents and kings on the money. Not often, but on occasion.

Jesus said, “render unto Caesar the things of Caesar"

[tesla sTinker]

On 1/27/2023 5:03 PM, Michael McLean scribbled:

> On 28/01/2023 11:45 am, P+Barker wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 10:26:38 +1100, Michael McLean
>> <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/01/2023 10:07 am, Rod_B wrote:

>>>> On 1/27/2023 4:36 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 14:50:58 -0600, Rod_B <rodbri...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>

>>>>>> On 1/27/2023 2:23 PM, P+Barker wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:56:55 -0800, Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> eiko?n
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i-kone’
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or
>>>>>>>> (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, the RCC and the Orthodox determined that to be.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yet some icon painters consider it to be windows into another
>>>>>>>> realm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When is a statue considered a graven image?
>>>>

>>>> It does not have to be a graven image Patrick. It can be someting
>>>> as simple as a likeness which does include statues. Read the remainder
>>>> of the verse below;
>>>>
>>>> "nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the
>>>> earth beneath,"
>>>
>>> Technically, regarding the scripture you are right, Rod, but it doesn't
>>> apply anymore.
>>
>> That law was made like all laws today are made.

>> See a problem.
>
> I certainly do.
>
>> Make a rule.
>

> Make up your own rules, or as the Bible says, doing what is right in
> your own eyes.
>

In the case you are stupid to understand Romans, what several church
pastors and theologians have put together also in the case of you
declaring make up your own rules crap,
maybe you should read what they have posted against you, from all
corners of the world including of Rome and including New York. As to
how many of them agree to any these documents below, which is most of
them, the number of names is to many to list of, several pages, and
also to much against the Novus Ordo fake Catholics, and there bogus
canons, that prove the canon law has so shut them out, just as what the
Bible says in chapter 10 of Romans, does the same dam thing yup,
excommunicates you. GET OUT.... Since Patrick never will go along with
telling you anything that is true, what I say, because he also disclaims
it, is a very phony catholic that also disobeys to what these documents
say and do, just like you do. Not to mention the Bible itself. Even
servant, does not disown the Bible. At least he knows better same as
all these theolgians from France to Germany to Greece, and all the way
to the Eastern States and to the West. Each one has written their name
in the back of this theology book, Including priests, and also bishops.
As to where the corruption starts inside it
as to who wrote what, most of it is genuine, does not contain any, yet
some is not, and goes against what the Bible says. But in this case of
you here posting the crap you do that is not valid at all, these
documents will do just fine.....


https://truecarpentry.org/tccwww/cathwww/dogma/catholicbooks/TeologiaMorale1957/Coperative'Evil327.jpg

http://www.truecarpentry.org/tccwww/cathwww/dogma/catholicbooks/TeologiaMorale1957/Coperators'Evil328.jpg

http://www.truecarpentry.org/tccwww/cathwww/dogma/catholicbooks/TeologiaMorale1957/Coperators'Evil329.jpg

http://www.truecarpentry.org/tccwww/cathwww/dogma/catholicbooks/TeologiaMorale1957/Coperators'Evil330.jpg

http://www.truecarpentry.org/tccwww/cathwww/dogma/catholicbooks/TeologiaMorale1957/Coperator'Evil'Corporatism331.jpg

[Michael McLean]

On 30/01/2023 11:19 pm, P+Barker wrote:
> Michael McLean <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>>>> A good adviser knows the question and the answer.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is bull shit.
>>>>
>>>> The Lord Jesus is a "good adviser" and He doesn't have a problem with that.
>>>
>>> Jesus is not the ONLY advisor.
>>
>> He is as far as I am concerned; the only good one.
>
> Did He teach you how to talk, to speak, to walk, to share, to show
> respect for others, to have dignity, honesty, and respect?

What you are not getting, what all of Christian religion, it seems, does
not get is that you are not those things. It is ALL His righteousness.
You are not a good advisor, not a good leader, not a good anything. All
the glory is His, all the good is His.

However, you "lot" want some of the glory for yourselves and that turns
whatever you do into excrement.


Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy
name done many wonderful works?

In other words, many will say to him in that day, "Have we not walked in
respect for others, to have dignity, honesty, and respect."

Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart
from me, ye that work iniquity.

Because you came in your own name.

What you don't understand, is that even if you come in 99.999% in the
Lord's name and in your heart you come with 0.001% in your own name, you
came in your own name!!!

God...does...not...share...His...glory...with...any...of the works of
fallen man.

Isa 42:8  I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give
to another...

Can it be any clearer or are you going to give me a smart-mouth, clever
boy, dead response now?

>> Many try to be, like you are now, but sorry you don't cut the mustard.
>
> What does that even mean?

You have no righteousness of your own, and neither do I.

All the glory is His.

>>>> The only leader with authority I acknowledge is the Lord.
>>>
>>> LIAR.
>>
>> You can make the choice if you like.
>> Again, "If you are not happy with that, you can take that up with the
>> Lord when you are being judged."
>>
>>> You observe the speed limits.
>>> You observe your own laws of the land.
>>> Or you would be sitting next to greggo in jail.
>>
>> So man's speed limits et al. rule the universe, do they? Thanks for
>> that "good advice."
>
> Another perfect example of you being stupid.
> You claimed "The only leader with authority I acknowledge is the
> Lord." And I call you a LIAR. You certainly acknowlege authority
> other than Jesus. Just saying.

There is no authority but Him!!!

All authority is Jesus!

Mat_28:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is
given unto me in heaven and in earth.

For goodness sake, go and study your bible, and stop looking to your
church and self for "advisement."

>> I do what the Lord tells me to do. He tells me not to do 60 miles an
>> hour through a school zone because I might mow down a child.
>
> When did He tell you this?

Unbelievable! He speaks what is good in my heart! And He should be
speaking the same to you, but you want some glory for yourself, so you
do not hear.

> Are you sure that "MAYBE" your mom taught you to respect the civil
> law, and God says we should love everyone?

Go...and...find...the GOD of the Bible.

I said "GOD", there is none other.

>> If I am
>> driving down the highway He tells to be careful to follow the speed
>> limit to minimize the potential of killing my neighbour.
>
> When did He tell you this?

He tells me this personally, but for your religious purposes, it is
called loving your neighbour as yourself!

Can you fathom that?!

> Are you sure that "MAYBE" your mom taught you to respect the civil
> law, and God says we should love everyone?
>
>
>
>> You are under law, I am under love...big difference.
>
> Speak for yourself. Do not speak for me, bobbo.

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

>>>> You lot don't even have an answer, let alone know the question.
>>>
>>> Yup. I don't know all the questions.
>>> You dorks keep coming up with new ones.
>>
>> You don't have an answer to anything because you don't know the
>> question. Only the Lord knows.
>
> God gave me common sense, intelligence, and the ability to reason.

No, He didn't.

You just get to see a small piece of HIS common sense, intelligence, and
ability to reason.

All the glory is His!

You worship yourself, that is why you can't see.

>>>>> As a military leader, I had numerous NEW problems rise all the time.
>>>>
>>>> You are not good.
>>>
>>> Your opinion, not mine.
>>> shaddup, bobbo
>>
>> You are not the good advisor. The Lord Jesus is the good advisor; all
>> the glory is His.
>
> I never said I was "THE" good advisor.

Yeah, right. If you say "a" you are saying "the" in the Spirit.

You are blind because you still worship yourself. As I said, it doesn't
matter if it is only 1%; 1% is 1% and it leaveneth the whole lump.

Does 1% of sewerage make the loaf pure and edible?

>>> As a commander and a leader of several hundred aircraft technicians, I
>>> do not claim to be a savior. However, I am a person who can solve
>>> problems and answer tough questions.
>>
>> No, you aren't, because you are operating in a fallen world matrix. You
>> are screwed from the outset no matter what you do.
>
> If that is what you believe, then it must suck to be you.

You wish I would be as you say, but you would be wrong.

The fallen world is fallen, and you are trying to navigate in and
through it in a fallen state.

Good luck with that.

All you end up with is self-righteousness, like your mate, Bobbo Booby.

You must lose your life. That is what Jesus said, and that is what you
must do to escape the matrix, and not be OF this world.

>> You can't seem to absorb that because your world is all about you, but
>> the spiritual life in God is all about Him.
>
> If that is what you believe, then it must suck to be you.

Are you insane?

>>>> Heck, is there ever going to be a lot of shock going on around here when
>>>> the Lord turns on the light in this dark world!
>>>
>>> The Lord hasn't shown you the light yet?
>>> Wow.
>>> Life must suck for you.
>>
>> I said the above because He has and does.
>
> "has and does?"
> You said the world would be shocked.

And it will be. You are going to be shocked to find out that your
helping little old ladies across the street was done in your own name.

A filthy thing, seen as a virtue in the fallen world.

Yes, I would help an old lady across the street, but not in my own name;
that is the difference. All the "good" is His; you want some for
ya-self, Buddy.

The Lord has and does reveal that in His light to me.

> You and bobbo are the only two have seen the light?

Bobbo is as religiously blind as you, and just as big of a self-worshiper.

The Lord is a lamp unto the feet and a light unto the path to those who
worship Him...and...Him...ALONE.

No bits of fallen man need apply. All the light is His.

>>>>>> In the gospels you can find one. However, a sinner cannot give good
>>>>>> advice; only what seemingly appears to be good advice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then you need to stop trying.
>>>>
>>>> It is not my advice, just like it is not my righteousness.
>>>
>>> Then don't try to give me advice.
>>
>> "I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
>> where God intends."
>
> Yo, bobbo.... Do you have an altar in your living room?

No, Bobbo Barker. Too small. The world world is an altar to Him.

>> "I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
>> where God intends."
>> That is the only agenda I have, Mr Good Advisor.
>
> Yo, bobbo.... Do you have an altar in your living room?
>
>
>>>>> Me? i'M GOOD TO GO.
>>>>
>>>> No...no, you are not.
>>
>>>> But you can tell yourself that if you like.
>>>
>>> God tells me this.
>>
>> I find that hard to believe, Bobbo.
>>
>> Time for you to run for the hills. The more you are told it is not all
>> about you, the more uncomfortable you get; run of the mill for Bobbo
>> Christendom.
>
> Then... stop it.

Unlikely.

Can you just get to the part where you always take a final dump and go?

Mike

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

[P+Barker]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 08:49:32 +1100, Michael McLean
<michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 30/01/2023 11:19 pm, P+Barker wrote:
>> Michael McLean <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>>> A good adviser knows the question and the answer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is bull shit.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Lord Jesus is a "good adviser" and He doesn't have a problem with that.
>>>>
>>>> Jesus is not the ONLY advisor.
>>>
>>> He is as far as I am concerned; the only good one.
>>
>> Did He teach you how to talk, to speak, to walk, to share, to show
>> respect for others, to have dignity, honesty, and respect?
>
>What you are not getting, what all of Christian religion, it seems, does
>not get is that you are not those things. It is ALL His righteousness.

Wrongo buffalo.
What about the non-Christians?
Did your god teach them how to talk, to speak, to walk, to share, to

show respect for others, to have dignity, honesty, and respect?

Did your god teach penguins how to walk?

>You are not a good advisor, not a good leader, not a good anything. All
>the glory is His, all the good is His.

You have some sort of false belief that yer god is in charge of
everything. This is impossible.
You forget that God turned the garden of Eden over to Adam to care
for. God commissioned Adam to cultivate the garden (v.s 15). He was
to look after the Garden. He was to dress (abhadh) it. The word means
to work, till, cultivate, dress, and serve the Garden.

Try to pay attention, bobbo.

>However, you "lot" want some of the glory for yourselves and that turns
>whatever you do into excrement.

I seek no glory.
That would be you.
You seem to think God will bless you for your support of Him.
What a fuck'n wierdo you are.

God gave me a free will.
The Lord wants me to Love the Lord and all my heart.
Mark 12:29-31 – “Jesus answered, ‘The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel!
The Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God
with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind,
and with all your strength.’ The second is this, ‘You shall love your
neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than
these.’”

Do you know what this means?
We mere humans are to be good to our neighbors.
This includes being a nice person.
God wants us to make this world a better place.
We do this by our free will in our words and actions.

You don't know if I was a goof leader or advisor.
I must have done some good things though, since I was promoted in the
United States Air Force 10 times.

>Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
>prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy
>name done many wonderful works?

What about it?

>In other words, many will say to him in that day, "Have we not walked in
>respect for others, to have dignity, honesty, and respect."

Speak for yourself.

I will not have to tell the Lord my history on earth.
God already knows.
Didn't you know this?
God knows what we did, and what is in our hearts.

>Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart
>from me, ye that work iniquity.
>Because you came in your own name.

Get ready for those words from Jesus to you.

>What you don't understand, is that even if you come in 99.999% in the
>Lord's name and in your heart you come with 0.001% in your own name, you
>came in your own name!!!

Speak for yourself.
You do not have the right to judge me.
You are not worthy.

>God...does...not...share...His...glory...with...any...of the works of
>fallen man.

And God does not share his authority with you.
And since you claim to have fallen, you can get back up again.

>Isa 42:8  I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give
>to another...
>Can it be any clearer or are you going to give me a smart-mouth, clever
>boy, dead response now?

in verses 1-4, God’s Word made it clear that when we think we have the
right answer and everybody else has the wrong answer we are giving
ourselves over to selfishness, pride, and hurting our relationships
with one another. Therefore, last Sunday, verses 1-4 God’s Word
commands those who are in Christ, “Seek unity of relationship instead
of 100% agreement on cultural topics.” Last Sunday, God’s Word was
commanding us as followers of Jesus, in north central Austin, “You
can’t cut people out of your life, you can’t store up bitterness, but
instead seek unity, seek forgiveness, seek reconciliation.”
Then, verse 5 lands on our soul, just as we are wanting to push back,
make excuses, justify, and maybe even feel like unity is impossible,
we see God’s Word cry out, “Look to Jesus. Have this attitude in
yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus.” Look at verses 6-7:
Philippians 2:6-7
“6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard
equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking
the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.”
Okay these two verses are jam packed with goodness. The phrase
“He existed in the form of God” means Jesus is eternal God. Jesus is
and always has been and always will be eternal God. Sometimes we think
Jesus began at His birth. All over north central Austin we celebrate
Christmas, Jesus’ birth, and we assume that’s where Jesus began, but
Jesus is eternal God!
Colossians 1 teaches us all things were created by Jesus, for Jesus,
and through Jesus, both in heavens and on earth, visible and
invisible, thrones, dominions, rulers, and authorities. That’s
Colossians 1:15-16. Jesus is eternal God, equal to God, but verse 6,
teaches us that Jesus gave up His glory, so that He might take on the
flesh of humanity. That’s huge! Why is that huge? If I told you I gave
up a dollar you might not be that impressed. A dollar today is like a
penny. But if I told you I gave up a million dollars, a billion
dollars then it might get your attention, right?
Verse 6 is teaching us Jesus existed in heaven for eternity and He
laid it aside. He gave it up to take on flesh. You know those moments
where you are excited to get away from your home? As a church in north
Austin we love our home but there’s just something fun about getting
out on the road and seeing what else is out there. Jesus had never
felt the desire to get away from heaven. It was heaven! Jesus had
perfect love, harmony, and unity within the trinity for eternity, and
He laid it aside to take on the “form of a bond-servant being made in
the likeness of men.” Do you see that in verse 7?
You might think God in all His glory would take on the flesh of a
king. You might think God in all His glory would be clothed in power
and position. But the greatest demonstration of humility is when God
in all His glory steps out of the heavens to take on the flesh of an
infant, born in a manger to a lowly couple in Nazareth. Look at verse
8:
Philippians 2:8,
“8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming
obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.”
In verse 8 Jesus not only lays aside the glory of heaven and
takes on flesh of a human but Jesus is also obedient to the point of
death on a cross. Just take that in for a minute. Jesus is the creator
of all things through Him, for Him and by Him, and yet He willingly
lays aside the glory of heaven so that He might take on flesh and to
be put to death on a cross. God the Father is never spit upon, God the
Spirit is never beaten or mocked. Yet in the Gospel of Mark, chapter
15, we see a description of Roman soldiers, hundreds of Roman soldiers
mocking Jesus on the way to the cross. The soldiers are clothing Jesus
in purple clothes, the color of royalty as a joke. The soldiers are
taking a crown of twisted thorns and shoving it into Jesus’ scalp as a
joke.
In those moments Jesus is still God. Jesus has laid aside His glory so
that He feels the pain but at the same time He could have stopped it.
Jesus could have said, “No.” Sometimes people try to paint this
picture of Jesus’ death as a symbol of love, or Jesus’ death was out
of control, or Jesus’ death was out of His hands, but God’s Word is
clear. Jesus laid down His life at the cross willingly. (John 10). In
fact, God’s Word tells us it was Jesus’ joy to lay down His life, and
it was because Jesus’ death on the cross is an act of obedience to the
Father for our sin.
Isaiah 53 Jesus is pierced through for our transgressions. Jesus is
crushed for our iniquities. All of us are like sheep who go astray but
the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall upon Him. Do you
know why? It’s John 3:16, “For God so loved the world.” Sometimes
people in north Austin will ask, “Does the God of Scripture really
care about my pain and hurt in this world?” Are you kidding? Jesus
gives up everything because He loves you. Jesus went through the
greatest pain because He loves you. Jesus takes the greatest death
because He loves you. Let’s look at our second sub-point; 2. The
Greatest Exaltation.

2.The Greatest Exaltation.
Philippians 2:9-11
“9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him
the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus
every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under
the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is
Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Let’s take it phrase by phrase. First, “for this reason.” Verses
9-11 are the culmination. Verses 5-8 we see the greatest display of
humiliation that we could ever imagine. We are in shock. It can’t be
true. And then verse 9 the explanation, “for this reason.” Then,
“God.” This is God the Father. Throughout the life of Jesus’, we see
Jesus constantly doing the will of the Father. It’s Jesus who says,
“It’s not my will, but the Father’s will.” 1 Peter 2, “While being
reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no
threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously.”
Jesus stands in our place. Jesus takes our judgment at the cross and
at the right time Jesus is “highly exalted.” Do you see those words in
verse 9?
This phrase “highly exalted” in the original language is a
superlative. It is a phrase that is pointing us to a day when Jesus is
super exalted. It is the highest exaltation. It is the greatest
exaltation, so that Jesus’ name, look at verse 9, Jesus’ name is the
name which is above every name. Isn’t that good?
You know that song, “Jesus, Jesus, Jesus there’s just something about
that name written in the 1970’s. Master, Savior, Jesus, like the
fragrance after the rain; Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, let all heaven and
earth proclaim. Kings and kingdoms will pass away, but there’s
something about that name.” The power isn’t in the literal letters
“Jesus.” It’s not a spell from Harry Potter. The power is in the life,
death, resurrection and return of Jesus, because there is nobody who
has done what Jesus had done or will ever do.
How many celebrities think their name is so great? How many world
leaders think their name is so great? How many people in north Austin
are trying to make their name great? How many of us are living to make
our mark on the world? How many of us are trying to push our
perspectives on every cultural event in the world right now? Give our
opinions. Get people to agree with us, listen to us and the only name
that matters is Jesus because of verse 10. Look at verse 10.
One day every knee will bow, one day every tongue will confess that
Jesus is Lord. Of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the
earth. There’s something about that name. This is the greatest
exaltation. There is nobody like Jesus. Yes, Jesus came in humility,
yes, Jesus was put to death on a cross, but He rose from the dead. The
resurrection of Jesus is proof that the penalty of death has been
crushed. The consequences of sin have been satisfied, and as Jesus
ascends into the heavens, He is given authority in this age and the
age to come, so that there is nobody like Jesus. That’s what makes our
last sub-point so important. Let’s look at our last sub-point;

3. The Greatest Response.
The greatest passage of all time deserves the greatest response
of all time. When you read a passage like this you can’t be
indifferent. You can reject it, but you can’t be indifferent to it.
You either believe it or run from it. You are either for Jesus or
against Jesus. There’s no in between. There’s no middle ground. Those
aren’t my words. Those are Jesus’ words. I will close with a story.
The weight of the passage is too heavy, too earth shattering, too
radical, too magnificent to simply reduce the life of Jesus to a moral
exercise for people to consider, so that this morning you either must
embrace this passage as the foundation for your life or you have to
reject it whole-heartedly. That’s why it isn’t about how you vote
politically. It isn’t about where you go to church in Austin. It isn’t
about being a good person in Austin. It’s about either believing with
your whole life or rejecting completely, and that’s why this is the
passage that demands the greatest response.
Our church family draws out these verses in three circles. The first
circle speaks to God’s glory. (Draw first circle and write God’s glory
in the middle.) This first circle represents a part of life that was
created perfect. This circle represents a time in history where
everything was right but because of our sin we see a world that is
broken. (Draw second circle and write broken.) That’s the world we
live in today. When we turn on the news we see brokenness in our
relationships, brokenness in ourselves, brokenness in our past, and we
are starting to feel like we are going to see brokenness in our
future. The reason we see this in the world today is because of our
sin. (Draw a connecting line and write SIN over the line.)
Listen to me, the God of Scripture didn’t create the world to be
broken. He created the world to be perfect and the good news is that
He doesn’t leave us in our brokenness. (Draw third circle with Jesus
in the middle). The good news is that Jesus has come. Jesus is God in
the flesh who stepped out of the heavens (draw circle pointing down)
to take our sin upon Himself at the cross and conquering our sin in
the resurrection (Draw arrow pointing up) so that we might have life
in Him. That’s the gospel. That’s the good news of Jesus.
When you believe in Jesus we are turning from our sin and brokenness
and trusting in Jesus. (Draw a connecting line with the word TURN over
the line.). That’s our response. We must respond. We must believe in
Jesus. If you’ve never done that then you need to do that this
morning. Turn from your sin and believe in Jesus. Believe Jesus is God
in the flesh. Believe Jesus paid the price of our sin at the cross.
Believe that Jesus conquered death at the resurrection. This is the
most important response we can ever have. When we respond and believe
in Jesus, we get to spend the rest of our life with Him and helping
others grow in Him (Draw a connecting line with the word GROW over the
line.) Listen to me, the God of Scripture has us here this morning to
hear the greatest passage of all time. You must respond. You can’t be
indifferent. You either agree or disagree. You either love Jesus or
you hate Jesus. You either worship Jesus or reject Jesus.

>You have no righteousness of your own, and neither do I.

OK.

>All the glory is His.

OK


>All authority is Jesus!

God chose Moses as his representative to Israel, speaking “face to
face” with Moses, and entrusts him with “all my house” (Num. 12:7-8).
“Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?” he
demands (Num. 12:8). When he hears no answer, Numbers tells us that
“the anger of the Lord was kindled against them” (Num. 12:9). His
punishment falls first on Miriam who becomes leprous to the point of
death, and Aaron begs Moses to forgive them (Num. 12:10-12). The
authority of God’s chosen leader must be respected, for to rebel
against such a leader i

>Mat_28:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is
>given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Me too.

>For goodness sake, go and study your bible, and stop looking to your
>church and self for "advisement."

My church does not advise me to shun your stupidity.
God has given me the authority to do this on my own.

>>> I do what the Lord tells me to do. He tells me not to do 60 miles an
>>> hour through a school zone because I might mow down a child.
>>
>> When did He tell you this?
>
>Unbelievable! He speaks what is good in my heart! And He should be
>speaking the same to you, but you want some glory for yourself, so you
>do not hear.

Don't you have a free will?

>> Are you sure that "MAYBE" your mom taught you to respect the civil
>> law, and God says we should love everyone?
>
>Go...and...find...the GOD of the Bible.
>I said "GOD", there is none other.

Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in
heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the
nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the
Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have
given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end
of the age.”

How many people have you baptised?
I didn't hear you.

>>> You are under law, I am under love...big difference.
>>
>> Speak for yourself. Do not speak for me, bobbo.
>
>"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
>where God intends."

How many people have you baptised?
I didn't hear you.

>> God gave me common sense, intelligence, and the ability to reason.
>
>No, He didn't.
>You just get to see a small piece of HIS common sense, intelligence, and
>ability to reason.
>All the glory is His!
>You worship yourself, that is why you can't see.

God gave me common sense, intelligence, and the ability to reason.

>>> You are not the good advisor. The Lord Jesus is the good advisor; all
>>> the glory is His.
>>
>> I never said I was "THE" good advisor.
>
>Yeah, right. If you say "a" you are saying "the" in the Spirit.

according to bobbo, the self proclaimed prophet of doom.

>You are blind because you still worship yourself. As I said, it doesn't
>matter if it is only 1%; 1% is 1% and it leaveneth the whole lump.
>Does 1% of sewerage make the loaf pure and edible?

You should be able to answer that easily.

>The fallen world is fallen, and you are trying to navigate in and
>through it in a fallen state.
>Good luck with that.
>All you end up with is self-righteousness, like your mate, Bobbo Booby.
>You must lose your life. That is what Jesus said, and that is what you
>must do to escape the matrix, and not be OF this world.

And you are supposed to be out baprising people.
How is that going for you?

>>> You can't seem to absorb that because your world is all about you, but
>>> the spiritual life in God is all about Him.
>>
>> If that is what you believe, then it must suck to be you.
>
>Are you insane?

If that is what you believe, then it must suck to be you.

> You are going to be shocked to find out that your
>helping little old ladies across the street was done in your own name.

Maybe this is your reasoning.
I do things to be nice.
I don't need your glory or your outrage.

>A filthy thing, seen as a virtue in the fallen world.

It must suck to live in your fallen world.

>Yes, I would help an old lady across the street, but not in my own name;
>that is the difference. All the "good" is His; you want some for
>ya-self, Buddy.

Speak for yourself.

>The Lord has and does reveal that in His light to me.
>
>> You and bobbo are the only two have seen the light?
>
>Bobbo is as religiously blind as you, and just as big of a self-worshiper.
>
>The Lord is a lamp unto the feet and a light unto the path to those who
>worship Him...and...Him...ALONE.
>
>No bits of fallen man need apply. All the light is His.

“I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in
darkness, but will have the light of life.”

[Michael McLean]

Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is

given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the
world. Amen.

It is not all authority, it is all power!

If you can't get this, I don't see the point on continuing, because all
you are doing is fighting for your own righteousness.

Who has been given all power? ALL POWER [force, capacity, in the Greek)!!!

Did you hear that?? All POWER!!!

No effort/power/capacity/force you can make required. God could raise
up stones; you just get the privilege, if indeed you do!

Who is commanding? Who is directing?

Who is always there?

Who are they obeying...as their "living sacrifice reasonable service?"

Therefore who's glory is it, who's righteousness is it?

All the modern Christian denominations want to take a piece of that
glory for themselves. The sinful nature just cannot resist it.

And because they do that, it makes what they do excrement.

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not ..."

You have to lose your life, and for the record, man does not baptize,
God does it all.

Do you think you can't be seen?





Mike

PS: I get so tired of talking to people who are trying to scam God's
glory by grabbing at His righteousness for themselves.

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

[P+Barker]

Michael McLean <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 31/01/2023 10:15 am, P+Barker wrote:


>> Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in
>> heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the
>> nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the
>> Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have
>> given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end
>> of the age.”
>
>Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is
>given unto me in heaven and in earth.
>Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
>name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
>Mat 28:20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
>commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the
>world. Amen.
>
>It is not all authority, it is all power!
>If you can't get this, I don't see the point on continuing, because all
>you are doing is fighting for your own righteousness.

OK. Jesus has all the power.
Except.............
What happened to free will?
If we have NO power, how can we decide what to eat for breakfast?

[Michael McLean]

On 31/01/2023 11:09 pm, P+Barker wrote:
> Michael McLean <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> On 31/01/2023 10:15 am, P+Barker wrote:
>
>
>>> Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in
>>> heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the
>>> nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the
>>> Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have
>>> given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end
>>> of the age.”
>>
>> Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is
>> given unto me in heaven and in earth.
>> Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
>> name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
>> Mat 28:20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
>> commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the
>> world. Amen.

>> It is not all authority, it is all power!
>> If you can't get this, I don't see the point on continuing, because all
>> you are doing is fighting for your own righteousness.

Patrick wrote:
> OK. Jesus has all the power.
> Except.............
> What happened to free will?

Read carefully.

If you think you have power, it is an illusion.

If I say you can have this or that, who has the power? And if I say you
cannot have this or that, who still has the power?

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

If you don't believe that is the Lord, take it up with Him when you are
being judged, in this life or in the life to come.

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

Patrick wrote:
> If we have NO power, how can we decide what to eat for breakfast?
> I didn't hear you.

Without His power, you couldn't even suck on a corn flake, let alone eat
one, let alone even having one.

All is His.

"Your" free will is HIS free will. Where do you think "free will" comes
from in the first place? He shares His power so that you can choose what
you want. It is still His, though.

Jer 18:1 THE WORD which came to Jeremiah from the Lord:
Jer 18:2 Arise and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause
you to hear My words.
Jer 18:3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and behold, he was
working at the wheel.
Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he was making from clay was spoiled in the
hand of the potter; so he made it over, reworking it into another vessel
as it seemed good to the potter to make it.
Jer 18:5 Then the word of the Lord came to me:
Jer 18:6 O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter does?
says the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you
in My hand, O house of Israel.

What can clay do? What power does it have?

You stubborn know-it-all bastards want glory for yourselves! That is
cause for rage, for God's wrath. The Lord told you, if you do anything
with even a whiff of self, you are walking in your own deluded glory.

No glory is yours; all the glory is His; He is the Creator! If God in
HIS POWER and GRACE allows it, you might understand what that means one day.

You...have...to...lose...your...selfish...self-worshiping life. Why do
you think the Lord says that? To be theological?

That is why I keep saying, "Find the Lord in your daily life and do
everything He says," because He will crucify that stinking
self-glorification in you and raise you up a new creature in Him and
like Him.

And if you still can't get it through that thick head, if I am the head
of the house, the father, and my children are playing at my feet, what
power do they have?  They can only act and behave at the arbitration of
my will and my power. They have no power of their own because even their
free will is mine to give and take; it is mine; everything is mine.

Thank goodness, God is a good Father, a very, very, very good Father,
and I have further realised that I waited for Him all my life, before I
even knew of Him. And so do we all!

You have to lose your life, or you will die without loving Him the way
He has to be loved, with all your heart, soul, and mind, without the
which you will rise from the dead ashamed and wishing a mountain would
fall on you to hide you.  That is "His choice" that He shares with you
and allows you in His great grace.

Every knee shall bow, not even a slightly higher knee, but all knees
shall bow right down to the ground!




Mike

[P+Barker]

Michael McLean <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 31/01/2023 11:09 pm, P+Barker wrote:

>> OK. Jesus has all the power.
>> Except.............
>> What happened to free will?
>
>Read carefully.
>
>If you think you have power, it is an illusion.
>If I say you can have this or that, who has the power? And if I say you
>cannot have this or that, who still has the power?
>"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
>still according to my power," says the Lord.

yada yada yada.

Isaiah 40:29-31
29 He gives strength to the weary and increases the power of the weak.
30 Even youths grow tired and weary, and young men stumble and fall;
31 but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will
soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will
walk and not be faint.

What does the Bible say about giving us power?
In Luke 10:19, Jesus gives us the assurance that He has given us the
power to overcome all the power of the enemy and nothing shall harm
us.

2 Timothy 1:7 - For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of
power, and of love, and of a sound mind

Ephesians 3 20?
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that
we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto
him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, aworld
without end.

Ephesians 6:14, NASB: Stand firm therefore, having belted your waist
with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
Ephesians 6:14, NLT: Stand your ground, putting on the belt of truth
and the body armor of God's righteousness.

Colossians 1:11
11 being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might
so that you may have great endurance and patience,

Hebrews 2:14
14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their
humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who
holds the power of death—that is, the devil—

ACTS: 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you;
and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and
Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Timothy 1: 7 For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but
gives us power, love and self-discipline.

Luke 9:1
1 When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and
authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases,

Psalms 68:35
35 You, God, are awesome in your sanctuary; the God of Israel gives
power and strength to his people. Praise be to God!

Isaiah 40:29-31
29 He gives strength to the weary and increases the power of the weak.
30 Even youths grow tired and weary, and young men stumble and fall;
31 but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength.

Luke 1:17
17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of
Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the
disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people
prepared for the Lord.”

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 31, 2023, P+Barker wrote
(in article<vn7jth53odc1ll3jf...@4ax.com>):

These verses are true in spite of the fact that you jump around willy nilly
from one translation to another.

Yet, in spite of all that, what have you shown? Simply put, it is that you
did not have the power but it came from God. On top of that, this power only
falls on them who walk by faith in the Lord. NOT religion. God gives this to
the children he birthed.