fervent's prophesy is plagiarism from Bill Somers' site

2 views
Skip to first unread message

alexiastation

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 11:20:02 PM1/6/04
to

"Rosa Mystica" <ro...@mystica.aac> wrote in message
news:2004010701280...@www.boxfrog.com...
> "fervent" <fer...@telusplanet.net> wrote in article
> news:l03Kb.38541$Dm.3974@edtnps89...
>
> Below I will show that fervent's "prophesy" is nothing but plagiarism,
each
> and every word of it. The original Subject line of fervent's article
reads:
> "Through My Manifested Sons (prophetic unction)"
>
> > "My manifested Sons are even now being prepared to respond to the
groaning
> > and travail of the desperate agonizing of creation which is enslaved to
the
> > bondages of sin, degradation, and powerless living, and to the
depravities
> > of darkness.
>
> http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
>
> "My manifested Sons are now being prepared to answer the groaning and
> travail of the desperate agonizing creation enslaved to the bondage of
sin,
> degradation, powerless living, and the depravities of darkness."
>
> Plagiarised by fervent.
>
> > It is the appointed time for change. It is the hour of transition. It is
the
> > time of divine intervention, but it will not be apart from the
involvement
> > of My manifested sons whom I have so been long preparing for this very
day
> > and this very hour.
>
> http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
>
> "It is the appointed time for Change. It is the hour of Transition. It is
> the time of Divine Intervention but it will not be apart from the
> involvement and manifestation of My Sons whom I have been long time
> preparing for this very Day and this very Hour."
>
> Plagiarised by fervent.
>
> > The word of My power through My manifested Sons is going to call forth
> > translation and transition, change and intervention, restoration,
jubilee
> > and liberty so that the foundations are deeply laid with fair colours
and
> > the structures of this world are fitly restored from chaos and
disorder.
> > Those of the world who are broken and peeled and scattered shall be
given
> > opportunity to see every fragment of their lives brought into alignment
and
> > cohesion and into the wholeness of abundant life through the knowledge
of
> > My Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
>
> http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
>
> "The Word of My power through My manifested Sons is going to call forth
> translation and transition, and change, and intervention and restoration
and
> jubilee and liberty until the foundations are deeply laid with fair colors
> and the structures are fitly-framed and the chaos and disorder of that one
> broken and peeled and scattered sees every fragment of his life brought
into
> alignment and cohesion and wholeness of abundant life through the
knowledge
> of My son, the Lord Jesus Christ."
>
> Again, plagiarised by fervent.
>
> > He is the Living Word. He is the Word of My power. Christ the hope of
glory,
> > the Living Word! For by Him were all things created that are in heaven
and
> > that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or
> > dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him,
and
> > for him!
>
> http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
>
> "He is the Living Word.
> He is the Word of My Power. "
>
> Plagiarised by fervent.
> And Colossians 1:16.
>
> > Through My manifested sons, He shall call forth a new dimension that
will
> > invoke new levels of order upward into Kingdom authority that shall
sweep
> > against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual
> > wickedness in high places, against thrones and dominions and
principalities
> > and powers, bringing order out of chaos at every level and in all
realms.
>
> http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
>
> "Through the manifestation of Sonship, Christ the hope of Glory, the
Living
> Word working within, the Word of My power shall come forth a new dimension
> that will cause new levels of order upward into kingdom authority that
shall
> expedite change at every level and all realms."
>
> http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html also has:
>
> "principalities and powers and thrones and dominions."
>
> Again plagiarised by fervent, but this time with some creative
cut-and-paste
> work.
>
> > When I chose to bring My manifested sons to perfection through
sufferings
> > into the covenant of being joint heirs with My only begotten Son,the
Lord
> > Jesus Christ, I purposed never to act apart from involving these ones I
have
> > formed in My likeness and created in My image. These shall truly always
have
> > a part in My plan of executing My divine will, whether in judgment or
> > blessing in the earth, saith the Lord."
>
> http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
>
> "When I chose to bring My many sons who follow in the footsteps of their
> elder brother, the Captain of the Lord's hosts, made perfect through
> sufferings into the covenant of being joint heirs with My only begotten
Son,
> the Lord Jesus Christ, I purposed never to act apart from involving these
> ones I have formed in My likeness and created in My image . These shall
> truly always have part in My plan of executing my divine will whether in
> judgement or blessing in the earth, saith the Lord. "
>
> Plagiarised by fervent.
>
> > My people walking in sonship shall speak forth the word of My power and
the
> > powers of darkness will wilt at their feet! The principalities that
prance
> > menacingly and threatening before My people and My creation will shrink
> > back. They will be oppressed and harassed in the same spirit of fear and
> > trepidation they have oppressively and tauntingly terrorized My
creation.
>
> http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
>
> "When My people walking in Sonship learn to speak forth the Word of My
power
> the powers of darkness will wilt at your feet and the principalities that
> prance menacingly and threatening before My people and My creation will
> shrink back . They will be oppressed and harassed in the same spirit of
fear
> and trepidation they have oppressively and tauntingly terrorized My
> creation."
>
> Plagiarised by fervent.
>
> > For it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them
that
> > trouble you!
>
> Here fervent quotes 2 Thess. 1:6, without attribution.
>
> > Every throne and every dominion shall revere and respect the
> > Word of My power coming forth in authority through My manifested sons
> > because I have ordained from the foundation of the world that My
overcomers
> > who are seated with Me in heavenly places would rule and reign with Me.
>
> http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
>
> "Every throne, and every dominion shall revere and respect the Word of My
> power coming forth in authority through My manifested Sons because I have
> ordained from the foundations of the world that My overcomers who are
seated
> with Me in My throne would rule and reign with Me."
>
> Plagiarised by fervent.
>
> > This is the heritage of My servants.
>
> http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
>
> " This is the heritage of My servants."
>
> Plagiarised by fervent.
>
> > No weapon that is formed against them
> > shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against them in judgment
> > shall be cast down. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD,
and
> > their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
>
> Here fervent quotes Isaiah 54:17, without attribution.
>
> > Have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying. It is the day of the Word
of My
> > power. It is the day when I shall begin to openly reveal and divide
between
> > that which is soul and that which is spirit, and there shall be a clear
> > delineation between the heart of man and the heart of God, and the one
who
> > speaks from the heart of man shall be marked as one whose words fall to
the
> > ground, but the one who speaks from the heart of God shall even be as
Samuel
> > with none of his words falling to the ground and all that he speaks
shall
> > come to pass for edification, exhortation and comfort and for and the
> > upholding of that which I do and create in the earth!
>
> http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
>
> "Have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying. It is the day of the word of
> My power. It is the day when I shall begin to openly reveal and divide
> between that which is soul and that which is spirit, and there shall be a
> clear delineation between the heart of man and the heart of God, and that
> one who speaks from the heart of man shall be marked as one whose words
fall
> to the ground, but the one who speaks from the heart of God shall even be
as
> Samuel with NONE of his words falling to the ground and all that he speaks
> shall come to pass for edification and the upholding of that which I do
and
> create in the earth! "
>
> Plagiarised by fervent.
>
> > This is the
> > birthright of My Sons saith the Lord."
>
> And the birthright, saith the Lord, belongeth not to fervent.
>
> Dear fervent,
>
> You are _not_ a false prophet... you are not a prophet at all! You have
> either copied and pasted your so-called prophesy from the above-mentioned
> web page, where it was uploaded on May 11, 2003, or you have copied it
from
> the same book or article that the contributing author to the above
mentioned
> web page took his inspiration from.
>
> You have stolen the work of somebody else, and have put your name under
it.
> You have even dared to suggest that it is God who speaks through your vile
> words. I tell you, this kind of sin against the Holy Spirit shall never
be
> forgiven... and you have been knowing it (your sin) for a long time.
>
> You also stole from the same source (i.e. from the same article) just
> over a month ago:
> Message-ID: <O5yyb.82973$oN2.75028@edtnps84>
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 02:56:46 GMT
>
> I beseech thee, in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost:
> Begone, servant of Satan.
>
>
> She Sang Neu
> **************************
> Where Griz is N O T Lord
> http://christianlife.bz.tc
> gri...@christianlife.bz.tc
> **************************
Fervent, Sometimes being a still small voice is louder than the rolling
thunder.
Blessings,
Beth


oldwetdog

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 11:43:52 PM1/6/04
to
alexiastation wrote:

I respectfully disagree:

It matters not a jot nor title where fervent got the words.

that he is also guilty of theft, or any other sin, does not change the
fact that he spoke those words in the first person singular, using *I*
as if he were God.
fervent spoke the words as if he were the Spirit of God.
fervent *is* a false prophet.

fervent is convicted when he determined to act,
he is convicted when the words leave his lips, or fingers,
the very words convict him.

It is not for me, nor any other man, to judge him.
It is, however, up to *every man* to discern who and what he is
*by his conduct*.

It is not for me, nor any other man, to forgive him.
fervent's sin is against the Holy Spirit, against God,
and against the Christ he claimed to serve.

If fervent hopes for forgiveness,
he must seek it from God,
from the Holy Spirit.

--
oldwetdog
-----
"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
mind." Jacques Maritain
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/

Cheerful Pickle

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 12:05:14 AM1/7/04
to
oldwetdog wrote:

>
> It matters not a jot nor title where fervent got the words.
>
> that he is also guilty of theft, or any other sin, does not change the
> fact that he spoke those words in the first person singular, using *I*
> as if he were God.
> fervent spoke the words as if he were the Spirit of God.
> fervent *is* a false prophet.
>

OK, you Old Wet Dog, you.

Your logic is seriously flawed. Speaking in the first person is an
acceptable style used even by people who were indisputably true prophets.
Its use by anyone does not prove or disprove anything. If you attack
Fervent simply on the basis of using the first person singular as you seem
to be doing, you must also attack all the true prophets who spoke in the
first person singular, such as Isaiah and Ezekiel.

This is absolutely no evidence of anything. Give EVIDENCE, not faulty logic
when you sit at the keyboard.


--
Andy Rugg
The Cheerful Pickle

To email me, please remove the "56" from the reply-to address. Thanks.

alexiastation

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 12:09:16 AM1/7/04
to

"oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> wrote in message
news:vvn3ka1...@corp.supernews.com...
Yes, I understand that oldwetdog, it was not a right thing for him to do. I
meant something that I could not think of how to convey to fervent. I am
saddened to find that he had done this. I have been sad for a while from his
posts, yet Yeshua is waiting for him, to come and listen to His voice. This
I know, if we repent, seek Him and stay in the word, He forgives us.
Blessings,
Beth


Mark and Bev Tindall

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 10:47:44 PM1/6/04
to
"Rosa Mystica" wrote:

> Below I will show that fervent's "prophesy" is nothing but plagiarism,
each
> and every word of it.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

I knew it was not original but guessed it was the usual paraphrase. So much
for Fervent's"special word of God" to Vera 666 and the bully building
team!!!! Will she still keep Fervent's "prophecies" on her webshite?


twice-born child

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 12:42:02 AM1/7/04
to

"alexiastation" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:0wMKb.617$WS1...@fe1.texas.rr.com...

I have sent an email to k...@clarion-call.org This is it below...

######################################################

http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:

"My manifested Sons are now being prepared to answer the groaning and
travail of the desperate agonizing creation enslaved to the bondage of sin,
degradation, powerless living, and the depravities of darkness."

Is this your words, please help, is the web link yours, someone else may be
using this as their own. Can you help me.

zep...@fuse.net


oldwetdog

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 12:49:35 AM1/7/04
to
alexiastation wrote:

God takes no pleasure in the fall of the sinner,
and any man who does....
I hope with all my heart that fervent can come to God.

--
oldwetdog
-----
"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
mind." Jacques Maritain
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/

.

Vera Six

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 1:42:43 AM1/7/04
to

"oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:vvn7fhe...@corp.supernews.com...

Of course not.
See what you have done.

> I hope with all my heart that fervent can come to God.

If you have such.

Rosa Mystica

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 8:28:07 PM1/6/04
to

oldwetdog

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 2:20:08 AM1/7/04
to
Vera Six wrote:

Vera, I'm not done.

>
>
>>I hope with all my heart that fervent can come to God.
>
>
> If you have such.
>
>
>
>
>>--
>>oldwetdog
>>-----
>>"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
>>mind." Jacques Maritain
>>http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
>>.
>>
>
>
>

Mark and Bev Tindall

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 2:01:53 AM1/7/04
to
Vera 666 rote:

> > God takes no pleasure in the fall of the sinner,
> > and any man who does....
>
> Of course not.
> See what you have done.


Vera 666, I again suggest you look at Donna Kupp's proposal. You are
facing Dresden. Think about it!


####################################################
Peace and greetings to you all. It seems to me that
much of the present strife in the postings that appear on
the public forum could be resolved with a name change of
the private website to something like: "Vera's Christian
Fellowship Group"

1. Most everyone presently in the forum already know
Vera and could continue to participate in her private
moderated website.

2. The name would blend in with the warmth of the home-like
atmosphere she wants to present.

3. She pays for the website, and with use of her name, she
would be justifed in moderating it in the same way she would
supervise activities in her private home.

4. Since it is an acceptable standard practice to post
personal websites on the public forum, "Vera's Christian
Fellowship Group." would make the clear distinction between
ACC and her private website that almost all of us want to
accomplish.

5. alt.christnet.christianlife, also known as: ACC will
always remain the public unmoderated forum that it has
been from the beginning. So, all of us can be forever
reconcilled to the fact that since it is a forum of
free speech, it will always be filled with debates.

Ungodly and profane deceivers will come to proprogate their
lies; but the LORD will send some of His people to contend
for the faith that was once delivered to the saints.

Friends, a great work must be done before the coming of the
Lord. He is coming for a church that is without spot
or wrinkle; for a glorious church that is holy and without
blemish.

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still:
and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still:

and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still:
and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me,
to give every man according as his work shall be."
Rev 22:11-12

Jesus, the Judge, is at the door. Are we ready to say:

"Amen, Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus
Christ be with you all. Amen."

Donna Kupp

########################################################

The Enigma

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 5:56:39 AM1/7/04
to
"Rosa Mystica" <ro...@mystica.aac> wrote in message news:<2004010701280...@www.boxfrog.com>...

<snipped for length>

Interesting...very interesting. It appears you are quite right.

The Enigma

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 5:59:39 AM1/7/04
to
"Rosa Mystica" <ro...@mystica.aac> wrote in message news:<2004010701280...@www.boxfrog.com>...

<snipped for length>

You know, there is nothing wrong with desiring the spiritual gifts.
However, it's a different matter entirely when someone wants a gift so
bad that they plagiarize someone else's posting and passes it off as
their own.

I wonder if Fervent also fakes speaking in tongues, or if he just
plagiarizes someone else...

Vera Six

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 8:07:49 AM1/7/04
to

"oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:vvncp99...@corp.supernews.com...

You are:

Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that
offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they
come!
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about
his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend
one of these little ones.

Luk 17:2

Vera Six

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 8:05:40 AM1/7/04
to
"oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:vvncp99...@corp.supernews.com...


Maybe not with your evil job here.

But you ARE done.

You have attacked the body of Christ.


Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but
that offences will come: but woe unto him, through
whom they come!
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged
about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he
should offend one of these little ones.

Luk 17:1-2

glenn

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 8:29:45 AM1/7/04
to

Vera 666 has to blame someone!

Group: alt.christnet.christianlife Date: Wed, Jan 7, 2004, 6:01pm
(CST+17) From: m_b_t...@tpg.com.au (Mark and Bev Tindall)
Vera 666 rote:
God takes no pleasure in the fall of the sinner, and any man who
does....
Of course not.
See what you have done.
Vera 666, I again suggest you look at Donna Kupp's proposal. You are
facing Dresden. Think about it!
##############################################
amen and thank you both
..glenn

glenn

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 8:27:59 AM1/7/04
to
vera,
see below if you dont understand....
why are you saying "see what you have done" and playing like owd may not
have a heart?
you are way off base here.
there has been a stealing, mocking, false prophet and you respond by
attackng the man that exposed the error and offers prayers and a warning
against anyone taking delight in fervents fall - ( as if he,or she, ever
was "unfallen")
this is the kind of thing we have come to expect from tbcs special club
but why? to ignore truth and villify truth tellers is to mock god. why
do you throw yourself into this lot?
sincerely,
glenn
------
V
Re: fervent's prophesy is plagiarism from Bill Somers' site

Group: alt.christnet.christianlife Date: Wed, Jan 7, 2004, 7:42am
(CST+7) From: veranospa...@t-online.de (Vera Six)

glenn

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 8:32:23 AM1/7/04
to

Re: fervent's prophesy is plagiarism from Bill Somers' site

Group: alt.christnet.christianlife Date: Wed, Jan 7, 2004, 2:59am
(CST-2) From: enigma...@yahoo.com (The Enigma)
---------------
not to be flippant, but, seriously...
i think the spirit that posesses him counterfits the gifts of the spirit
of god.
..glenn

Vera Six

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 8:42:01 AM1/7/04
to

Vera Six

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 8:44:08 AM1/7/04
to

Vera Six

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 9:04:46 AM1/7/04
to

Vera Six

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 9:12:13 AM1/7/04
to

Griz

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 9:37:56 AM1/7/04
to
>You know, there is nothing wrong with desiring the spiritual gifts.
>However, it's a different matter entirely when someone wants a gift so
>bad that they plagiarize someone else's posting and passes it off as
>their own.
>
>I wonder if Fervent also fakes speaking in tongues, or if he just
>plagiarizes someone else...

Please test the spirits Enigma.
The One True Spirit tells us to focus on Christ and not on actual or even
apparent mistakes of others.

And did fervent err in what he shared? Maybe in not giving credit to the
instrument God used, but when has that ever been our focus. Our focus is
not the intrument God used, but the God who uses us all according to His
perfect plan.

If Bill Somer shared for the edification of the body, then those were not
his words but God's -- for nothing good or holy comes from us. All good
things are from God, right?
And if the words are God's, then He cannot plagerize Himself, correct?

This is not a defense of fervert. Christ will look at his heart and either
be his defender or his accuser, but not until that final day.
What this is, is a cry of one in discernment to say that the spirit many are
speaking in right now, is the very spirit that seeks to shift the focus off
of Christ by whatever means are necessary. He will get us talking about
sinner or saints; where people have stood and where they have fallen; what
they have boldly said or where they have been cowed into silence; where
others have failed and how unfailing we are (!).

It's about discernment.
We need to recognize our foe, so we will not do his duty of shifting the
focus off of the author and finisher of our faith.

Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding
us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily
entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who
for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has
sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Yours in Christ,

Griz


Diana

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 10:00:43 AM1/7/04
to
Thank you for your post in ACP Craig, how can we pray for you today?

Diana
"Griz" <gr...@delete.cois.on.ca> wrote in message
news:vvo6e5k...@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi Andy!


>
> >OK, you Old Wet Dog, you.
> >
> >Your logic is seriously flawed. Speaking in the first person is an
> >acceptable style used even by people who were indisputably true
prophets.
> >Its use by anyone does not prove or disprove anything. If you
attack
> >Fervent simply on the basis of using the first person singular as
you seem
> >to be doing, you must also attack all the true prophets who spoke
in the
> >first person singular, such as Isaiah and Ezekiel.
> >
> >This is absolutely no evidence of anything. Give EVIDENCE, not
faulty
> logic
> >when you sit at the keyboard.
> >
> >
> >--
> >Andy Rugg
> >The Cheerful Pickle
>

> Good to see you poke your cheerful face into the midst of all this!
> Glenn is overly focussing on "giving evidence" right now. He is the
accuser
> of the brethren. He has made many claims, but backed them all up
with the
> same logic we saw here.
>
> I think however, that it would be good to let this sleeping dog lie
as he
> will, and to remind the body of Christ, that our focus is Christ.
>
> For so long as we are focussing on anything BUT Christ (and
encouraging
> others to do the same), the accuser of the body will remain strong.
>
> When we both know that he is a defeated foe.
>
> And I would encourage the regular posters to hold fast during this
time.
> They come from time to time - allowed by God if you can fathom
that - to
> show us and those in silent observation just what happens when so
many allow
> Satan to get their focus off of Christ.
> I would urge all who continue to watch this spectacle with an
increasing
> burden on their hearts to not enter into that method or mindset with
them.
> Simply thank them for their views, and return the focus to Christ.
>
> And I would keep the subject line of this post intact, simply to
point out
> the true fragility of the devil's ploys against us. It seems quite
damning
> and accusatory -- but look at it from the Kingdom and it becomes
quite clear
> that if Bill Somers offered words up for God's greater glory, he did
so not
> of himself but of the Spirit. He spoke the words, but they were the
> property of the Spirit for the sake of edifying the body.
> If the Spirit wishes those same words to be spoken elsewhere for the
same
> purpose, then there is no sin, no plagarism!
> Only the devil would think of accusing God of plagarizing Himself --
or
> imply that He does not have the right to take what He has given, and
use it
> where ever He pleases.
>
> Recognize our foe.
> That is what discernment is all about. Then you will see clearly
his ploys
> and not be held accountable for willingly taking part in his ploys
against
> the redeemed.
>
> Yours in Christ,
>
> Griz
>
>


Truth

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 10:43:39 AM1/7/04
to

"Vera Six" <veranospa...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:bth3oq$cg4$03$1...@news.t-online.com...
>
>

Vera,

Where did Christ ever delete the words of those he disagreed with,
where did he ever force his views on others or censor them?

Didn't he answer his enemies questions and prove everything he said
with the word of God,
using biblical principles? Didn't he expose them truthfully to warn
others?

When his enemies tried to silence him, accuse him, and trap him,
mingling with the multitudes, did he wipe his feet and walk away from
those multitudes because of the false shepherds among them, even
though though those false shepherds believed their authority from God
and that they were his chosen people?

Mar 6:34 And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved
with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a
shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.
Mar 1:22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them
as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.

Are you his child?

Hbr 5
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and
supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to
save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which
he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation
unto all them that obey him


1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk,
even as he walked.

Think.

~ Cindy

Truth

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 10:44:26 AM1/7/04
to

"Vera Six" <veranospa...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:bth2f2$6ll$02$1...@news.t-online.com...

Truth

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 10:53:24 AM1/7/04
to

"Vera Six" <veranospa...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:bth46s$8o9$02$1...@news.t-online.com...

Truth

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 10:53:42 AM1/7/04
to

"Vera Six" <veranospa...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:bth2i4$9cg$01$1...@news.t-online.com...
>
>
Vera,

Where did Christ ever delete the words of those he disagreed with,
where did he ever force his views on others or censor them?

Didn't he answer his enemies questions and prove everything he said
with the word of God,
using biblical principles? Didn't he expose them truthfully to warn
others?

When his enemies tried to silence him, accuse him, and trap him,
mingling with the multitudes, did he wipe his feet and walk away from
those multitudes because of the false shepherds among them, even

though though those false shepherds believed their authority from God

Chayil

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 11:33:42 AM1/7/04
to

"glenn" <dgl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3114-3FF...@storefull-2234.public.lawson.webtv.net...

Vera 666 has to blame someone!

Glenn, get a grip!

Mike Bugal

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 1:35:11 PM1/7/04
to
"Griz" <gr...@delete.cois.on.ca> wrote in message
news:vvo6e7...@corp.supernews.com...

> >You know, there is nothing wrong with desiring the spiritual gifts.
> >However, it's a different matter entirely when someone wants a gift so
> >bad that they plagiarize someone else's posting and passes it off as
> >their own.
> >
> >I wonder if Fervent also fakes speaking in tongues, or if he just
> >plagiarizes someone else...
>
> Please test the spirits Enigma.
> The One True Spirit tells us to focus on Christ and not on actual or even
> apparent mistakes of others.

It's about time that someone asked this false shepherd exactly what he means by
this new mantra he is constantly chanting when confronted with Truth lovers.
Exactly how does standing for the Truth of God's Word, examining prophecies and
withstanding false prophets take our "focus off of Christ". Is he of the opinion
that Jesus encouraged or excused false prophets rather than warning us they were
coming in droves right before His return? Is he of the opinion that we are not
supposed to "prove all thing" and only hold onto that which is "good"?? If
standing for Truth is "taking people's eyes off of Christ" is he of the opinion
that we only have our eyes on Christ when our head is in the sand?

He chants this mantra because he has not one leg to stand on in the Bible. In
fact, just the opposite is true. Look what Paul said to the Corinthians:

"For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did
repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were
but for a season. Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye
sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye
might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to
salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2
Cor. 7:8-10)

If Paul had agreed with Griz, the Corinthians might never have repented. But he
didn't consider telling them the Truth to be "taking their eyes off of Christ",
but focusing them upon Him Who said that He is "...the Truth". Enigma is doing
nothing less.

His and Yours,

Mike Bugal
Heartland Chapel Ministries
http://www.heartlandchapel.org


Vera Six

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 12:24:19 PM1/7/04
to

pablo

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 1:15:17 PM1/7/04
to
<< Subject: deleted
From: "Vera Six" veranospa...@t-online.de
Date: Wed, Jan 7, 2004 12:24 PM
Message-id: <bthfh1$q35$03$1...@news.t-online.com> >>

hi sister -- relax and trust in the God of your salvation.

i know you have put a heart of love into making a website -- and that the
manuvering of others to make webpages and such to provide an alternative to
your own can and does feel like a slap in the face.

maybe it is. in some ways most certainly. in other ways probably not. it's a
mix or a combo.

the chat 3 coincidence was something that on the surface appeared very wrong.
i went immediately and looked at the webpage when i saw the "chat 3" post.
since the url said, "chat3.html" i checked "chat2.html" and "chat1.html" and
found the other chat rooms.

(by the way -- i have no idea which thread this post is in -- i just wished to
encourage you vera -- so for this thread -- i may be off topic)

when i saw that -- the missunderstanding made sense. it is something that
needs correction -- because "chat3" has come to mean a specific chat on
acc-growingdeeper.

my advice -- offer kindness -- embrace the new chat and the works of others --
put links on your site to the chat as well.

you have built a wonderful website. fantastic really. you built it with an
industrious heart of love and with the noblest of intentions.

matt percieves injustice and for the most part -- he is working to bring
correction to what he perceives. is his heart longing to be a part of a
community online which seeks to build up the body of Christ and be a light unto
the world?

in heated days like this -- who can judge by appearance? in days of heated
exchange it can be difficult to judge by words.

has matt missed the human heart which made the website you operate? -- no doubt
it appears that way. it might be safe to say that matt has been diligent and a
true searcher -- and yet that he has seen only the characture built by those
who have slandered you and beaten on you and picked and picked and picked.

he also has only met you in the heated days of exchange while you are being hit
upon with repeated insults and blows and attacks. let me be somewhat more
forceful -- he has only met you in days when you have been slandered and
ridiculed in ways most undeserved. hardly a time to catch someone at their
best...

when push comes to shove -- i suspect from what i have read that matt himself
would come to your defense. i cannot know that -- at this stage he is just a
characture in my eyes too.

sister, strain to hear the human voice of your enemies. i know you do this
with people that no one here would imagine... :-)

i know of your deep love for a certain individual of whom most of usenet
considers an enemy of the highest order.

do unto others -- not as they do unto you - but as you would have them do unto
you.

i mean nothing of a lecture by these words. i myself have sat and looked at
post after post where people have outright lied and contradicted themselves and
have created versions of the truth which they wield like an axe. and i have
left many a reply -- unsent.

traffic on this newsgroup seems un-naturally huge these days -- everybody loves
a holy war. people tend to swarm to fires and fist fights.

when they swarmed on Christ -- i always remember the picture of his hands on
the cross as an example for us all. he did not clench his hands into a fist
when he stood bombarded by the evil empire which took over his chosen people.
he did not clench his hands into a fist when the people yelled, "crucify him,
crucify him!"

no, instead he did as he always had -- he held out his hands -- open and
welcoming to the stubborn people who rejected his call for love and peace...
saying tearfully, "jerusalem, jerusalem..."

he did not clench his hands into a fist - but instead offered himself open
palmed to the nails of rejection.

he did not clench his fist, but with open hands he took hold of salvation and
brought heaven down to earth and the people of earth up to heaven.

so, when i find my hands clenched in a fist -- i sometimes open my palms --
lift them up and pray.

did i mean to suggest that Jesus was not in a fight? -- by no means. he could
have called down a legion of angels and ended the whole matter -- but he knew
who his real enemy was -- and in defeating his real enemy -- he even offered
his own blood for those who would crucify him.

what manner of love has the Father lavished upon us...

lavished -- the highest price -- spilled ridiculously for you and i -- he
withheld not his very Son.

let us fix our eyes upon the Author and Finisher of our faith -- the Savior
Jesus Christ.

peac3d.
pablo
a donut without a hole is a danish...

GENTLEOWL SPIRIT

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 1:18:48 PM1/7/04
to

"Vera Six" <veranospa...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:bth3oq$cg4$03$1...@news.t-online.com...
>
>
Vera, Do you also delete G_d's Word when you don't like what it says?
Your sister in Christ
Sioux


CBrown7281

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 1:31:54 PM1/7/04
to
>Subject: Re: deleted
>From: lesser...@aol.comrobotico (pablo)
>Date: 1/7/04 12:15 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id:

>hi sister -- relax and trust in the God of your salvation.

Hello Vera,

I whole heartedly agree with Pablo, and have but one thing to add...
Remember dear sister, you are loved, and that love will never wax cold...
The love of Christ is from eternity, to eternity, and the love of those in
Christ is with you now, as well as for you...

Your name is lifted high, unto the Lord of Hosts, so fear not, He has
heard our prayers and will strengthen you...
Cal...

Be always ready to give an answer to every man about the hope that lies
within you, with gentleness and respect...

oldwetdog

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 1:48:21 PM1/7/04
to
Vera Six wrote:

<snip>

The "Griz Cult" which posts on ACC, is not the body of Christ.

OWD

oldwetdog

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 2:00:18 PM1/7/04
to
Griz wrote:

>>You know, there is nothing wrong with desiring the spiritual gifts.
>>However, it's a different matter entirely when someone wants a gift so
>>bad that they plagiarize someone else's posting and passes it off as
>>their own.
>>
>>I wonder if Fervent also fakes speaking in tongues, or if he just
>>plagiarizes someone else...
>
>
> Please test the spirits Enigma.
> The One True Spirit tells us to focus on Christ and not on actual or even
> apparent mistakes of others.
>

Griz would have you ignore the evidence against a false prophet,
because seeing it would be "taking the focus" off Christ.
Did Christ warn of false prophets? If we acknowledge His warning, how
are we taking our eyes off Him by obeying His command?

Griz, would you please post this Quote
("The One True Spirit tells us to focus on Christ")
in its Scriptural context.

>
> Yours in Christ,
>
> Griz
>
>

Book, Chapter and verse will be fine.


--
oldwetdog
-----
"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
mind." Jacques Maritain
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/

.

alexiastation

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 4:46:24 PM1/7/04
to
Yes Diana, lets do pray.
Beth
"Diana" <./././././././> wrote in message
news:3ffc1e56$0$12224$a046...@nnrp.fuse.net...

alexiastation

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 4:48:51 PM1/7/04
to
tbc are speaking to me, it is under me on the thread, I thought I was
blocked?
no those where not my words. These where my words: as below;
In Yeshua,
Beth
"twice-born child" <zephaniah...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:3ffb9c91$0$21987$a046...@nnrp.fuse.net...
>
> "alexiastation" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:0wMKb.617$WS1...@fe1.texas.rr.com...

> > Yes, I understand that oldwetdog, it was not a right thing for him to
do.
> I
> > meant something that I could not think of how to convey to fervent. I am
> > saddened to find that he had done this. I have been sad for a while from
> his
> > posts, yet Yeshua is waiting for him, to come and listen to His voice.
> This
> > I know, if we repent, seek Him and stay in the word, He forgives us.
> > Blessings,
> > Beth
> >
> >
>
> I have sent an email to k...@clarion-call.org This is it below...
>
> ######################################################

>
> http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
>
> "My manifested Sons are now being prepared to answer the groaning and
> travail of the desperate agonizing creation enslaved to the bondage of
sin,
> degradation, powerless living, and the depravities of darkness."
>
> Is this your words, please help, is the web link yours, someone else may
be
> using this as their own. Can you help me.
>
> zep...@fuse.net
>
>
>
>
>
>


alexiastation

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 4:52:20 PM1/7/04
to

"oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> wrote in message
news:vvn7fhe...@corp.supernews.com...
> alexiastation wrote:
>
> > "oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> wrote in message
> > news:vvn3ka1...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> >>alexiastation wrote:
> >>
> >>
Snip for space only

> > Yes, I understand that oldwetdog, it was not a right thing for him to
do. I
> > meant something that I could not think of how to convey to fervent. I am
> > saddened to find that he had done this. I have been sad for a while from
his
> > posts, yet Yeshua is waiting for him, to come and listen to His voice.
This
> > I know, if we repent, seek Him and stay in the word, He forgives us.
> > Blessings,
> > Beth
> >
> >
> God takes no pleasure in the fall of the sinner,
> and any man who does....
> I hope with all my heart that fervent can come to God.
>
> --
> oldwetdog
> -----
> "Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
> mind." Jacques Maritain
> http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
> .
I pray it be so oldwetdog. No He does not..very true!
In Yeshua,
Beth


alexiastation

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 4:53:59 PM1/7/04
to
take the plank our of your own eye Vera.
Beth

"Vera Six" <veranospa...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:btg9ru$h63$05$1...@news.t-online.com...

>
> "oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:vvn7fhe...@corp.supernews.com...
> > alexiastation wrote:
> >
> > > "oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> wrote in message
> > > news:vvn3ka1...@corp.supernews.com...
> > >
> > >>alexiastation wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>"Rosa Mystica" <ro...@mystica.aac> wrote in message
> > >>>news:2004010701280...@www.boxfrog.com...
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>"fervent" <fer...@telusplanet.net> wrote in article
> > >>>>news:l03Kb.38541$Dm.3974@edtnps89...
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Below I will show that fervent's "prophesy" is nothing but
plagiarism,
> > >>>
> > >>>each
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>and every word of it. The original Subject line of fervent's
article
> > >>>
> > >>>reads:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>"Through My Manifested Sons (prophetic unction)"
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>"My manifested Sons are even now being prepared to respond to the
> > >>>
> > >>>groaning
> > >>>
> > >>>

> > >>>>>and travail of the desperate agonizing of creation which is
enslaved to
> > >>>
> > >>>the
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>bondages of sin, degradation, and powerless living, and to the
> > >>>
> > >>>depravities
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>of darkness.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>"My manifested Sons are now being prepared to answer the groaning
and
> > >>>>travail of the desperate agonizing creation enslaved to the bondage
of
> > >>>
> > >>>sin,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>degradation, powerless living, and the depravities of darkness."
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against them in
> > >
> > > judgment
> > >

> > >>>>>shall be cast down. This is the heritage of the servants of the
LORD,
> > >>>
> > >>>and
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Here fervent quotes Isaiah 54:17, without attribution.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>Have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying. It is the day of the
Word
> > >>>
> > >>>of My
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>power. It is the day when I shall begin to openly reveal and divide
> > >>>
> > >>>between
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>that which is soul and that which is spirit, and there shall be a
clear
> > >>>>>delineation between the heart of man and the heart of God, and the
one
> > >>>
> > >>>who
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>speaks from the heart of man shall be marked as one whose words
fall to
> > >>>
> > >>>the
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>ground, but the one who speaks from the heart of God shall even be
as
> > >>>
> > >>>Samuel
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>with none of his words falling to the ground and all that he speaks
> > >>>
> > >>>shall

> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>come to pass for edification, exhortation and comfort and for and
the
> > >>>>>upholding of that which I do and create in the earth!
> > >>>>
> > >>>>http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>"Have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying. It is the day of the
word
> > >
> > > of
> > >
> > >>>>My power. It is the day when I shall begin to openly reveal and
divide
> > >>>>between that which is soul and that which is spirit, and there shall
be
> > >
> > > a
> > >
> > >>>>clear delineation between the heart of man and the heart of God, and
> > >
> > > that
> > >
> > >>>>one who speaks from the heart of man shall be marked as one whose
words
> > >>>
> > >>>fall
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>to the ground, but the one who speaks from the heart of God shall
even
> > >
> > > be
> > >
> > >>>as
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Samuel with NONE of his words falling to the ground and all that he
> > >
> > > speaks
> > >
> > >>--
> > >>oldwetdog
> > >>-----
> > >>"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
> > >>mind." Jacques Maritain
> > >>http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
> > >>
> > >
> > > Yes, I understand that oldwetdog, it was not a right thing for him to
do. I
> > > meant something that I could not think of how to convey to fervent. I
am
> > > saddened to find that he had done this. I have been sad for a while
from his
> > > posts, yet Yeshua is waiting for him, to come and listen to His voice.
This
> > > I know, if we repent, seek Him and stay in the word, He forgives us.
> > > Blessings,
> > > Beth
> > >
> > >
> > God takes no pleasure in the fall of the sinner,
> > and any man who does....
>
> Of course not.
> See what you have done.
>
> > I hope with all my heart that fervent can come to God.
>
> If you have such.

alexiastation

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 4:56:45 PM1/7/04
to

"Truth" <ne...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:464cc931c4309627...@news.teranews.com...
> Amen, good post Cindy.
Beth


The Enigma

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 4:58:56 PM1/7/04
to
"Griz" <gr...@delete.cois.on.ca> wrote in message news:<vvo6e7...@corp.supernews.com>...

> >You know, there is nothing wrong with desiring the spiritual gifts.
> >However, it's a different matter entirely when someone wants a gift so
> >bad that they plagiarize someone else's posting and passes it off as
> >their own.
> >
> >I wonder if Fervent also fakes speaking in tongues, or if he just
> >plagiarizes someone else...
>
> Please test the spirits Enigma.
> The One True Spirit tells us to focus on Christ and not on actual or even
> apparent mistakes of others.

Griz, the way you "test the spirits" is to examine false teachings
(like the manifest sons of God teaching) and false prophecies in light
of scripture.

I don't think you can "test the spirits" by ignoring the heresies that
are professed to the assembly of believers.

May God Bless you this evening.

alexiastation

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 5:07:43 PM1/7/04
to
Proverbs
28:4
They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law
contend with them.

28:5
Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all
[things].


"Vera Six" <veranospa...@t-online.de> wrote in message

news:bth19q$9v8$03$1...@news.t-online.com...


> "oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> schrieb im Newsbeitrag

news:vvncp99...@corp.supernews.com...

> > Vera, I'm not done.
>
>
> Maybe not with your evil job here.
>
> But you ARE done.
>
> You have attacked the body of Christ.
>
>
> Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but
> that offences will come: but woe unto him, through
> whom they come!
> It were better for him that a millstone were hanged
> about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he
> should offend one of these little ones.
>
> Luk 17:1-2


>
> > >
> > >>I hope with all my heart that fervent can come to God.
> > >
> > >
> > > If you have such.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>--
> > >>oldwetdog
> > >>-----
> > >>"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
> > >>mind." Jacques Maritain
> > >>http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
> > >>.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >

alexiastation

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 5:12:32 PM1/7/04
to
Job 3:17
There the wicked cease [from] troubling; and there the weary be at rest.

Job 8:22
They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of
the wicked shall come to nought.


alexiastation

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 5:16:26 PM1/7/04
to
You certainly never cease to amaze .
Beth

"Griz" <gr...@delete.cois.on.ca> wrote in message
news:vvo6e7...@corp.supernews.com...

Griz

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 4:29:02 PM1/7/04
to
>>Vera <snip> has to blame someone!

>Glenn, get a grip!

Hi Chayil

What we've been doing lately on the group is when someone winds up and lets
fly with some pure, childish hate - is simply to snip it.

There's a lot of hurt that can be carried by words, even 3rd and 4th hand.
It does no good to block the ones spouting the wounding words, if friends
start importing it back and continuing to do their dirty work for them.

That's part of the reason why Vera has left.

Yours in service,

Griz


alexiastation

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 5:19:21 PM1/7/04
to
Let us just keep praying.
Blessings Sioux,
Beth
"GENTLEOWL SPIRIT" <le...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:q4YKb.777$Ey6...@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

Chayil

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 5:40:32 PM1/7/04
to

"Griz" <gr...@delete.cois.on.ca> wrote in message
news:vvp1bm3...@corp.supernews.com...

Okay Griz,

Thanks for telling me. It took me a good few minutes to understand what you
were speaking of, but I have noticed what you snipped. My apologies to Vera
about that.

This probably goes without saying, but for the record my responding to the
post (even unsnipped) in no way represents my accomodation of the
terminology used (as is evidenced I think in my response). While I don't
consider what I did "doing someone's dirty work for them" I can certainly
appreciate that seeing such things may be hurtful no matter the source. As
such, I promise to take more care with that in the future.

I am not sure why Vera left, but I would belief it may be more complicated
than that. Nonetheless, I am sure that God is watching over her wherever
she goes.

God Bless,
Chayil


> Yours in service,
>
> Griz
>
>


Mike Horyn

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 10:07:57 PM1/7/04
to

Amen!

It gives me no pleasure to remind readers that I pointed this out a long
while back. Our prayers ought to be for Fervent tonight.

Mike

HeLovesYou

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 11:22:19 PM1/7/04
to
Father, I lift up Larry to You tonight and ask that You would minister to
his needs. Father, when all else fails us, You do not. When we are down
and we cry out to You, You pick us up and enfold us with Your great tender
mercy and love. Your mercies are new each day, and I thank You for that.
Father, I ask that that which seeks to steal, kill, and destroy depart in
the name of Jesus. Father, may he sense Your hand upon his life and that
You love him with an unending love.
For I ask these things in the name of Jesus. Amen.

"Mike Horyn" <mike...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:hQ3Lb.779659$Fm2.758507@attbi_s04...

Mark and Bev Tindall

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 10:07:22 PM1/7/04
to
"Griz" wrote:

...whatever ...

The focus of this unmoderated newsgroup is Christian life.

Remember the bible says in Phi 4:8 "Finally, brethren, whatever is TRUE ...
dwell on these things." (my emphasis)

Would you like to repond to the following of my posts?


###############################

For all at alt.christnet.christianlife

Now that the Grizzle Guts cult has lost most of its sting the question of
how we treat former members and their victims is an issue that needs to be
discussed and addressed by all, as is our learning from the mistakes of the
past.

When the Nazis took over Germany in WW II the Lutheran church was divided
into those who supported Hitler and those who opposed him. After the war
the two sides reconciled and became one again with forgiveness on both
sides.

We cannot be like those who have victimised us. We cannot be tryrants of
another ilk or "bullies for freedom" when the war is over. We cannot change
the old regime for a new regime.

If we claim to be Christian then we should great others who claim to be
Christian as our brothers and sisters. As this unmoderated forum is for ALL
Christians there will always be denominational differences. This should not
be a bar for fellowship nor a reason to stop talking to another who claims
to be Christian. No-one should be forced to believe the same doctrine as
another Christian.

In the same manner, there can be no leaders. We are ALL equal in Christ and
members of the same body. We ALL have a part to play ... including Vera and
Griz.

I ask for others to comment on and discuss this aspect that needs to be
addressed before it arrives on our doorstep unawares.

Maybe you could read II Corinthians 3-11 as a start for these dicussions.
There has been a fight for the freedom of this newsgroup. That freedom is
all but won. What do we do now to heal the victims and help the vanquished?

Mark

Diana

unread,
Jan 8, 2004, 12:07:13 AM1/8/04
to
In agreement, Amen

"HeLovesYou" <fpri...@ndak.net> wrote in message
news:vvpmnqg...@corp.supernews.com...

glenn

unread,
Jan 8, 2004, 2:11:00 AM1/8/04
to
Group: alt.christnet.christianlife Date: Wed, Jan 7, 2004, 10:22pm From:
fpri...@ndak.net (HeLovesYou)
Father, I lift up Larry to You tonight and ask that You would minister
to his needs. Father, when all else fails us, You do not. When we are
down and we cry out to You, You pick us up and enfold us with Your great
tender mercy and love. Your mercies are new each day, and I thank You
for that. Father, I ask that that which seeks to steal, kill, and
destroy depart in the name of Jesus. Father, may he sense Your hand upon
his life and that You love him with an unending love.
For I ask these things in the name of Jesus. Amen.
--and amen,
..glenn

Griz

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 6:14:49 PM1/7/04
to
>Thank you for your post in ACP Craig, how can we pray for you today?
>
>Diana

For fervent.

Griz


Amazing Grace

unread,
Jan 8, 2004, 9:47:45 AM1/8/04
to
HeLovesYou wrote:
>
> Father, I lift up Larry to You tonight and ask that You would minister to
> his needs. Father, when all else fails us, You do not. When we are down
> and we cry out to You, You pick us up and enfold us with Your great tender
> mercy and love. Your mercies are new each day, and I thank You for that.
> Father, I ask that that which seeks to steal, kill, and destroy depart in
> the name of Jesus. Father, may he sense Your hand upon his life and that
> You love him with an unending love.
> For I ask these things in the name of Jesus. Amen.
>
<snipped>
In agreement. Amen.
Grace

alexiastation

unread,
Jan 8, 2004, 10:23:27 AM1/8/04
to
Amen.

"Griz" <gr...@delete.cois.on.ca> wrote in message
news:vvqdgc8...@corp.supernews.com...

alexiastation

unread,
Jan 8, 2004, 10:27:47 AM1/8/04
to

"Mike Horyn" <mike...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:hQ3Lb.779659$Fm2.758507@attbi_s04...
>
> "oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> wrote in message
> news:vvn3ka1...@corp.supernews.com...
> > alexiastation wrote:
> >
> > > "Rosa Mystica" <ro...@mystica.aac> wrote in message
> > > news:2004010701280...@www.boxfrog.com...
> > >
> > >>"fervent" <fer...@telusplanet.net> wrote in article
> > >>news:l03Kb.38541$Dm.3974@edtnps89...
> > >>
> Amen!
>
> It gives me no pleasure to remind readers that I pointed this out a long
> while back. Our prayers ought to be for Fervent tonight.
>
> Mike
>
>
> > "Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
> > mind." Jacques Maritain
> > http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
> >
Amen and they are.
>
>


alexiastation

unread,
Jan 8, 2004, 10:28:39 AM1/8/04
to
Agree Amen!

"HeLovesYou" <fpri...@ndak.net> wrote in message
news:vvpmnqg...@corp.supernews.com...

Feather

unread,
Jan 8, 2004, 10:43:35 AM1/8/04
to
HeLovesYou wrote:
> Father, I lift up Larry to You tonight and ask that You would minister to
> his needs. Father, when all else fails us, You do not. When we are down
> and we cry out to You, You pick us up and enfold us with Your great tender
> mercy and love. Your mercies are new each day, and I thank You for that.
> Father, I ask that that which seeks to steal, kill, and destroy depart in
> the name of Jesus. Father, may he sense Your hand upon his life and that
> You love him with an unending love.
> For I ask these things in the name of Jesus. Amen.

Amen

Diana

unread,
Jan 8, 2004, 11:25:40 AM1/8/04
to
Yes Craig, consider it done. I have known Fervent for a few years and
I am happy to pray for and with him. Take care Craig

Diana


"Griz" <gr...@delete.cois.on.ca> wrote in message
news:vvqdgc8...@corp.supernews.com...

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages