false prophets #3

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oldwetdog

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Jan 5, 2004, 5:21:03 PM1/5/04
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Fervent, you are a false prophet.
You are as those who "speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of
the mouth of the LORD."

The moment you decide to speak in the name of the Lord, and say what
your own mind conceives, you become a false prophet. The moment the
words depart your lips, or your fingers, those very words convict you.

You are exposed for what you are when the words of your mouth are proved
false. It may be a year, it may be ten, yet the false prophet will find
terror as his reward.

Deuteronomy 18:20-22: But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a
word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall
speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if
thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath
not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the
thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD
hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou
shalt not be afraid of him.

I am not your judge; it is the words of your mouth, which judge you. How
is it, Fervent, that you have no fear of the false prophet's reward?

Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of
fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall
be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Eze 13:7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying
divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and
seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that
divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither
shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither
shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am
the Lord GOD.
10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and
there was no peace;

Isa. 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children
that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not
unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their
means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end
thereof?

Jer. 14:13 Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto
them, Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I
will give you assured peace in this place.
14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I
sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them:
they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of
nought, and the deceit of their heart.
15 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy
in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall
not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.
16 And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the
streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall
have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their
daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them.

Jer 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of
the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a
vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
Jer 23:25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my
name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
Jer 23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that
prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
Jer 23:32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith
the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies,
and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them:
therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.
-----

Those who are interested in knowing the difference between True Prophets
and False Prophets will find the book of Jeremiah extremely interesting,
for at least two reasons. First, people did not want to hear of the
coming destruction of Jerusalem, even if it were true. They preferred to
listen to the false prophets, even if their prophecies were untrue.
Second, the disappointing lesson of Jeremiah is that people choose to
believe what they wish, with little concern about whether it is true or not.

The terrible lesson of Jeremiah is that they rejected the Truth, and
suffered the consequences.

If it is possible to glean a more terrible lesson from scripture, it is
that the people of this generation will make the same wrong choice, and
choose to believe the false prophets.

Mat. 24:24, 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day
shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of
sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

This ACC group is an example. The self-proclaimed leader of the group
does not want his flock to know the difference, or how to determine the
difference, between false and true prophets.

Yet he gives false prophecy himself, and both condones and supports a
false prophet within the group.

Many in this group only want to hear "smooth things," and they care not
at all if these "smooth things" are true or false.

Just as Jeremiah was punished for telling truth to the people of his
day, so will this group reject true prophecy and reward the false prophets.

_________________________________________________________________
This prophecy is false, and proves Fervent to be a false prophet.
(quote)
"2003 shall bring forth the manifestation of My "perfect order" (true
spiritual authorities in their perfect position within My Church) in the
midst of My people - both individually and corporately. This shall be
"initiated" as "each and every one" of My children throughout the entire
earth truly acknowledge Me in "all" their ways that "I" might direct
their paths!
(end quote)

The link for the entire text is;
http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=OHUXa.267%24%25T.122%40edtnps84

(watch for word-wrap)
___________________________________________________________________
end post

--
oldwetdog
-----
"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
mind." Jacques Maritain
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/

Chayil

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Jan 5, 2004, 6:14:42 PM1/5/04
to
Hi Old Wet Dog,

"oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> wrote in message
news:vvjoqgb...@corp.supernews.com...


> Fervent, you are a false prophet.
> You are as those who "speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of
> the mouth of the LORD."
>
> The moment you decide to speak in the name of the Lord, and say what
> your own mind conceives, you become a false prophet. The moment the
> words depart your lips, or your fingers, those very words convict you.
>
> You are exposed for what you are when the words of your mouth are proved
> false. It may be a year, it may be ten, yet the false prophet will find
> terror as his reward.
>

Wow! A lot sure must have happened in my absense. This is the second time
I have seen some stirring about a post from Ferevnt. I have never
considered him to be a false prophet and have not seen anything from him
that seems unScriptural. Based on this accusation, I would assume that he
must have said something pretty off the wall. I will try and find his
original post because I have been blessed many times by Fervent's postings.


> Deuteronomy 18:20-22: But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a
> word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall
> speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if
> thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath
> not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the
> thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD
> hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou
> shalt not be afraid of him.
>

I agree with this completely.

Old Wet Dog, out of curiousity (and to try and catch up quickly) have you
raised to Fervent your concerns about what he has said? This may just be a
misunderstanding. I just have never found Fervent's posts to be the type of
ear-tickling gobbledy gook that is associated with false prophets.


> This ACC group is an example. The self-proclaimed leader of the group
> does not want his flock to know the difference, or how to determine the
> difference, between false and true prophets.
>
> Yet he gives false prophecy himself, and both condones and supports a
> false prophet within the group.
>

I assume that you are speaking of Griz here. However, I am not sure that he
is trying to prevent people from knowing about what is false. One of the
first confrontations I had on this group was when I started asking for
answers about how the group was handling a poster who was spreading false
doctrine. Although there was a variety of responses about "how" this should
be handled, I think that everyone for the most part agreed that the doctrine
was wrong. In my opinion, I think that the group in general has struggled
with how to handle the identification of false doctrines, so I don't think
this is limited to Griz. I believed then that the group had some growing to
do in this area and I think in some regards it has grown. Maybe these
current discussions are all a part of the growth process. My bottom line?
We should each post as we feel led for we are accountable to God for what we
do and say in His name.

> Many in this group only want to hear "smooth things," and they care not
> at all if these "smooth things" are true or false.
>

Yes, but that is probably true for Christianity in general.


> Just as Jeremiah was punished for telling truth to the people of his
> day, so will this group reject true prophecy and reward the false
prophets.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> This prophecy is false, and proves Fervent to be a false prophet.
> (quote)
> "2003 shall bring forth the manifestation of My "perfect order" (true
> spiritual authorities in their perfect position within My Church) in the
> midst of My people - both individually and corporately. This shall be
> "initiated" as "each and every one" of My children throughout the entire
> earth truly acknowledge Me in "all" their ways that "I" might direct
> their paths!
> (end quote)
>

Thank you for posting this Old Wet Dog. That helps since I have not read
Fervent's post. I will look at the link you provide below, but to be
honest, I don't see anything in the snippet above that would cause me to
label Fervent as a false prophet. God has established an order in His
Church. We are instructed to acknowledge God in all of our ways. God does
say that He will direct our paths.

Okay, so now you see that I am completely missing what you see. ;-) If the
above quote is part of why you are labeling Fervent a false prophet, then I
am just not seeing it. Would you mind pointing out for me what you see as
the error?

God Bless!
Chayil

oldwetdog

unread,
Jan 5, 2004, 7:28:16 PM1/5/04
to
Chayil wrote:

> Hi Old Wet Dog,
>
> "oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> wrote in message
> news:vvjoqgb...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>Fervent, you are a false prophet.
>>You are as those who "speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of
>>the mouth of the LORD."
>>
>>The moment you decide to speak in the name of the Lord, and say what
>>your own mind conceives, you become a false prophet. The moment the
>>words depart your lips, or your fingers, those very words convict you.
>>

<snip>

>>Deuteronomy 18:20-22: But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a
>>word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall
>>speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if
>>thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath
>>not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the
>>thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD
>>hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou
>>shalt not be afraid of him.
>>
>
>
> I agree with this completely.
>

one key ingredient is "which I have not commanded him to speak..."
God is saying, specifically, and without equivocation, that He does
command the prophets what to say...

Therefore, for a man to "wing it" or conceive it in his own mind, makes
him a false prophet.

The second ingredient is:
"...if the thing follow not..."

If it does not occur, that is a false prophet.

The third ingredient is that nothing in a prophecy can contradict
anything else in God's Word.

>
>>I am not your judge; it is the words of your mouth, which judge you. How
>>is it, Fervent, that you have no fear of the false prophet's reward?
>>
>>Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of
>>fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall
>>be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
>>
>>Eze 13:7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying
>>divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?

Again, here:\


whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?


>>8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and
>>seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

<snip>

>>Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
>>31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their
>>means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end
>>thereof?

Here people are wanting (or loving) to hear false prophets...
So when they are warned, they don't want to rid themselves of the false
prophet...

>>
>>Jer. 14:13 Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto
>>them, Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I
>>
>

<snip>

>
> Yes, but that is probably true for Christianity in general.
>
>

Yes, true. and it will lead to and result in the "great delusion"
sweeping through the Church, and the "falling away" which comes just
before the end.

>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>This prophecy is false, and proves Fervent to be a false prophet.
>>(quote)
>>"2003 shall bring forth the manifestation of My "perfect order" (true
>>spiritual authorities in their perfect position within My Church) in the
>>midst of My people - both individually and corporately. This shall be
>>"initiated" as "each and every one" of My children throughout the entire
>>earth truly acknowledge Me in "all" their ways that "I" might direct
>>their paths!
>>(end quote)
>>

This is only a single, and small, example.
First, to recognize a false prophet we need to know God's Word,
(see Feather's link, and Mike Bugal, below.)
or in this case, something about Prophecy God has already given.
(I will not go into detail about this here: If you have time, later, you
can visit my site for this part...)

Second, fervent gives a time, which would be O.K., of course, if *ALL*
this prophecy is fulfilled" within the time. It is not, this is the
first proof (in this sample) that fervent is a false prophet. But, there
is more: Parts are-- "My "perfect order"" .. in their perfect
position... as "each and every one" ... "entire earth..." Not only was
fervent's prophecy *not* fulfilled in the time he gave, but even the
individual parts were not fulfilled.

You are aware, I'm sure, (and I do not mean to insult your intelligence
by this question,) of "Sophistry" and the kinds of arguments which can
be used to mis-direct or disprove a point, or be used to delude someone
in a discussion?

This (fervent's false prophecy) is not a case as in Noah's situation,
where God changed his mind because the condition of the prophecy was
fulfilled. Yet, that (sophistry) argument can be, has been, will be used
in almost unlimited degrees and varieties to sidetrack a charge that a
prophet's prophecy proved false.

Yet, there is more to fervent's false prophecy. Much more. And many more
of his false prophecies. To see the sly, subtle and pervasive delusion
brought by fervent's false prophecies, read the article on the site
Feather provided. Also, You can visit Mike Bugal's site and contact him,
and he can give you an explanation, in grater detail, of some of the
contradictions of God's Word within fervent's false prophecies. There
are many.

You can find all of fervent's false prophecies by using google search in
groups.

>
>>The link for the entire text is;
>>
>
> http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=OHUXa.267%24%25T.122%40edtnps84
>
>>(watch for word-wrap)
>>___________________________________________________________________

Thanks for your interest, Chayil,
and God bless you,

twice-born child

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Jan 5, 2004, 7:45:04 PM1/5/04
to

"Chayil" <cha...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:_9mKb.12582$Pn5....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

> Hi Old Wet Dog,
>
> "oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> wrote in message
> news:vvjoqgb...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Fervent, you are a false prophet.
> > You are as those who "speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of
> > the mouth of the LORD."
> >
> > The moment you decide to speak in the name of the Lord, and say what
> > your own mind conceives, you become a false prophet. The moment the
> > words depart your lips, or your fingers, those very words convict you.
> >
> > You are exposed for what you are when the words of your mouth are proved
> > false. It may be a year, it may be ten, yet the false prophet will find
> > terror as his reward.
> >
>
> Wow! A lot sure must have happened in my absense. This is the second
time
> I have seen some stirring about a post from Ferevnt. I have never
> considered him to be a false prophet and have not seen anything from him
> that seems unScriptural. Based on this accusation, I would assume that he
> must have said something pretty off the wall. I will try and find his
> original post because I have been blessed many times by Fervent's
postings.
>
>

Guilt by association no doubt, we have a cycle here at Acc, first, bash
Benny, second, debate false prophecies and prophets, then finally, hang
"fervent !!!!

They say they don't despise prophecy, so I simply ask, "What New Testament
prophets and prophecies can you say are real??"

But don't hold your breath waiting on a sincere answer!

tbc

fervent

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Jan 5, 2004, 9:12:16 PM1/5/04
to

"oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> wrote in message
news:vvjoqgb...@corp.supernews.com...
> Fervent, you are a false prophet.

I snipped the stuff, but in Revelations the false prophet is the singular
being who performs miracles for the antichrist...go figure...do you
subscribe such infamy to this poor unsuspecting wannabe elijah?


fervent

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Jan 5, 2004, 9:16:19 PM1/5/04
to

"Chayil" <cha...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:_9mKb.12582$Pn5....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Hi Old Wet Dog,
> Wow! A lot sure must have happened in my absense. This is the second
time
> I have seen some stirring about a post from Ferevnt. I have never
> considered him to be a false prophet and have not seen anything from him
> that seems unScriptural. Based on this accusation, I would assume that he
> must have said something pretty off the wall. I will try and find his
> original post because I have been blessed many times by Fervent's
postings.

I suppose being a manifested son is off the wall to many...but it is an
application of scripture

1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the
day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


fervent

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Jan 5, 2004, 9:18:16 PM1/5/04
to
This prophecy is false, and proves Fervent to be a false prophet.
>>(quote)
>>"2003 shall bring forth the manifestation of My "perfect order" (true
>>spiritual authorities in their perfect position within My Church) in the
>>midst of My people - both individually and corporately. This shall be
>>"initiated" as "each and every one" of My children throughout the entire
>>earth truly acknowledge Me in "all" their ways that "I" might direct
>>their paths!
>>(end quote)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This was an inner work and so you obviously never got it...


Griz

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Jan 5, 2004, 9:36:05 PM1/5/04
to
The devil would have us so busy looking for evil, that we miss the good.

Phi 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable,
whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good
repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell
on these things.


2Co 6:1 And working together with Him, we also urge you not to receive the
grace of God in vain--
2Co 6:2 for He says, "AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE
DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU." Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION"--
2Co 6:3 giving no cause for offense in anything, so that the ministry will
not be discredited,
2Co 6:4 but in everything commending ourselves as servants of God, in much
endurance, in afflictions, in hardships, in distresses,
2Co 6:5 in beatings, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in
sleeplessness, in hunger,
2Co 6:6 in purity, in knowledge, in patience, in kindness, in the Holy
Spirit, in genuine love,
2Co 6:7 in the word of truth, in the power of God; by the weapons of
righteousness for the right hand and the left,
2Co 6:8 by glory and dishonor, by evil report and good report; regarded as
deceivers and yet true;
2Co 6:9 as unknown yet well-known, as dying yet behold, we live; as
punished yet not put to death,
2Co 6:10 as sorrowful yet always rejoicing, as poor yet making many rich,
as having nothing yet possessing all things.

Yours in Christ,

Griz


matt

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Jan 5, 2004, 9:37:01 PM1/5/04
to

TBC I haven't Hung Fervent.

Matt

Chayil

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Jan 5, 2004, 9:51:48 PM1/5/04
to

"oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> wrote in message
news:vvk090p...@corp.supernews.com...

I agree.


> >
> >>I am not your judge; it is the words of your mouth, which judge you. How
> >>is it, Fervent, that you have no fear of the false prophet's reward?
> >>
> >>Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of
> >>fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall
> >>be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
> >>
> >>Eze 13:7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying
> >>divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
>
> Again, here:\
> whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
>

I agree here as well. It is a very serious matter to "speak for the Lord"
if in fact He has not told you to speak.


>
> >>8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and
> >>seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
>
> <snip>
>
> >>Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
> >>31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their
> >>means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end
> >>thereof?
>
> Here people are wanting (or loving) to hear false prophets...
> So when they are warned, they don't want to rid themselves of the false
> prophet...
>

Perhaps this is true. BTW, although I am by no means excusing this, I think
the same could be said about many Christians. Also, I think we need to
understand that we are not all at the same place in our knowledge of the
Lord. Let me take a for instance. If I recall, I think that you do not
believe in the trinity. There may be prophets or teachers you like who
support this view. Someone who believes in the trinity might label these
individuals as false prophets/teachers. Yet you would not simply rid
yourself of this teaching (or teachers) just because I said that I believed
it to be false. In fact, in examining the accuracy of these positions, I am
sure we could both point to Scripture to collaborate our points of view. Do
you see what I mean? I guess what I am saying is that it takes the Holy
Spirit to reveal truth to us and to enlighten our understanding to receive
it.

> >>
> >>Jer. 14:13 Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto
> >>them, Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I
> >>
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> > Yes, but that is probably true for Christianity in general.
> >
> >
>
> Yes, true. and it will lead to and result in the "great delusion"
> sweeping through the Church, and the "falling away" which comes just
> before the end.
>

True again.


> >
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>This prophecy is false, and proves Fervent to be a false prophet.
> >>(quote)
> >>"2003 shall bring forth the manifestation of My "perfect order" (true
> >>spiritual authorities in their perfect position within My Church) in the
> >>midst of My people - both individually and corporately. This shall be
> >>"initiated" as "each and every one" of My children throughout the entire
> >>earth truly acknowledge Me in "all" their ways that "I" might direct
> >>their paths!
> >>(end quote)
> >>
>
> This is only a single, and small, example.
> First, to recognize a false prophet we need to know God's Word,
> (see Feather's link, and Mike Bugal, below.)
> or in this case, something about Prophecy God has already given.
> (I will not go into detail about this here: If you have time, later, you
> can visit my site for this part...)
>

I'd be happy to visit your site and will do so as soon as I can.


> Second, fervent gives a time, which would be O.K., of course, if *ALL*
> this prophecy is fulfilled" within the time. It is not, this is the
> first proof (in this sample) that fervent is a false prophet. But, there
> is more: Parts are-- "My "perfect order"" .. in their perfect
> position... as "each and every one" ... "entire earth..." Not only was
> fervent's prophecy *not* fulfilled in the time he gave, but even the
> individual parts were not fulfilled.
>

I am not familiar with the prophecy to which you refer. I did read the link
you provided in the original posting, but I didn't see any timeframe listed.
It just seemed to speak of the second coming of Christ and the glorification
of the church.


> You are aware, I'm sure, (and I do not mean to insult your intelligence
> by this question,) of "Sophistry" and the kinds of arguments which can
> be used to mis-direct or disprove a point, or be used to delude someone
> in a discussion?
>

I am not insulted old wet dog. ;-) I know that there is much for me to
learn in general. I appreciate anyone's input who can help me to learn more
about God.


> This (fervent's false prophecy) is not a case as in Noah's situation,
> where God changed his mind because the condition of the prophecy was
> fulfilled. Yet, that (sophistry) argument can be, has been, will be used
> in almost unlimited degrees and varieties to sidetrack a charge that a
> prophet's prophecy proved false.
>
> Yet, there is more to fervent's false prophecy. Much more. And many more
> of his false prophecies. To see the sly, subtle and pervasive delusion
> brought by fervent's false prophecies, read the article on the site
> Feather provided. Also, You can visit Mike Bugal's site and contact him,
> and he can give you an explanation, in grater detail, of some of the
> contradictions of God's Word within fervent's false prophecies. There
> are many.
>
> You can find all of fervent's false prophecies by using google search in
> groups.
>

I did read the article posted by Feather. I also read the post from Fervent
you referred to. But I just don't see anything for me to label Fervent as a
false prophet. I am not dismayed though for I know that the Lord will show
me everything I need to know. My trust is not in him anymore than it is in
you; it is in the Lord.


> >
> >>The link for the entire text is;
> >>
> >
> >
http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=OHUXa.267%24%25T.122%40edtnps84
> >
> >>(watch for word-wrap)
> >>___________________________________________________________________
>
> Thanks for your interest, Chayil,
> and God bless you,
>

Of course I am interested Old Wet Dog! ;-) I don't claim to know it all,
so I welcome any discussion that can bring me deeper into the faith. I
appreciate your witness and your posts.

God Bless,
Chayil

Mark and Bev Tindall

unread,
Jan 5, 2004, 9:16:12 PM1/5/04
to
Note that the PORN ADDICT FERVENT (mentioned in this Victim's post) is
FEATURED at Vera 666's website!!!!!

A victim of Grizzle Guts wrote ...

#############################################################

... And the constant Fervent emails, I first met him years and years ago and
sometimes he would pop up in my msn, and wanted me to talk sex with him, he
is a porn addict, not converted as he says, he still does it as often as he
did before, repents and goes awhile without doing it and then does it again
and repents, a cycle. .....

#########################################################

In Fervent's OWN words ...

> >Not the least of these were and addiction to porn in my past life which
> >I stayed clear of for over four years from my infilling with the glory
and
> >light which shines from above. That was until the easy access of the
> >internet got hold of me for a season! Try as I might, it was just too
> >flashy a drawing card with just too many inadvertent "pop ups" to display
> the
> >wares! I have been delivered and I have escaped but there has been a
> >scarring of my peace and a reluctant admission before God that I am not
> >all I thought I was!

###################################

Welcome to the Free ACC: "That Sweet Forum of Liberty!"

1. This is a public unmoderated newsgroup.
2. Griz is an arrogant, deluded quack.

##################################

> http://www.acc-growing-dumber.doh.doh.doh.doh.doh.doh.doh.doh


Vera 666 CENSORS her webshite!!!! She writes under Important Information
her censorship rules ....

666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666

People who do not accept that will not have approval to be represented on
the ACC Web Site.

666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666

Of course the BABY CHRISTIAN VERA 666 (3 and a half years a Christian)
determines who is a TREW KRISTYUN!!!!

Her Grizzle Guts' cult wants to censor this UNMODERATED public forum for
ALL Christians at alt.christnet.christianlife !!!!

We are here to DISCUSS!!!

ACC IS A PUBLIC UNMODERATED FORUM in the Alt NG hierarchy which according to
the FAQ for Alt NGs [ http://www.visi.com/~barr/alt-creation-guide.html]
....is a "refuge away from the control freaks, namespace purists and
net.cops ... that maintain and enforce the mainstream newsgroup guidelines."

ACC = alt.christian.christianlife which BY ITS TITLE is dedicated to
ANYTHING which comes up during CHRISTIAN LIFE.

ALL Christians from ALL denominations are welcome and NO Christian is
banned or censored at alt.christnet.christianlife.


How to Identify GRIZZLE GUTS' Counterfeit, Manipulative, and Controlling
System

#############################

KEY:

(CHRISTIAN) Content Which Is Biblical - (GRIZZLE GUTS) Content Which Is
Authoritarian

(CHRISTIAN) Teaches/matures - (GRIZZLE GUTS) Indoctrinates / clones

###############################


1. Leaders open to questions and discuss them - Unquestioning obedience /
Leaders do not discuss questions

2. Truth is the bottom line - Love and loyalty are the bottom line

3. Freedom to form own conclusions - Indoctrination /Leaders' conclusions
must be accepted.

4. Emphasis on unity - Emphasis on uniformity

5. Not elitist / accepts ALL Christians - Elitist / accepts SOME
Christians

6. Open program - Hidden agenda

7. Influences - Manipulates

8. Leaders shepherd (guide) the flock - Leaders "lord" it over the flock

9. Results in diversity, freedom - Results in conformity, rigidity

10. Provides many avenues of service - Allows one avenue of service
...serving their group

11. Individual is responsible to God for his / her life - Individual is
responsible to leaders

12. Individual seeks, discerns and follows God's will - Leaders tell
individual what God's will is

13. Critical thinking encouraged - Analytical thinking hindered

14. Complex, no simple answers - Simplistic approach to life

15. Reasoned approach based on whole counsel of God, full bible in
context, prayer, counsel, circumstances, other information - Pick your
own bible verse to lead you / Choices must conform to leaders' dictates,
leaders' approval


[adapted from Joanne Ruhland 1995]

Mark and Bev Tindall

unread,
Jan 5, 2004, 9:21:54 PM1/5/04
to

#############################################################

#########################################################

###################################

##################################

> http://www.acc-growing-dumber.doh.doh.doh.doh.doh.doh.doh.doh

666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666

666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666^^^666

#############################

KEY:

###############################

7. Influences - Manipulates


1


Mark and Bev Tindall

unread,
Jan 5, 2004, 9:34:37 PM1/5/04
to

sensible2me

unread,
Jan 5, 2004, 10:37:52 PM1/5/04
to

oldwetdog <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> wrote in message
news:vvjoqgb...@corp.supernews.com...
sensible2me:
Hi OWD,
My account of false prophesy does not deal with anybody but ME as a soul. My
assets and my debts are nobodies business but mine and God's. Hey, hey I
used to listen to such garb and it was very much a part of my fearful life
of thinking I know where your going and it's a place called hell, do you
hear me? Oh those days were the worst days of my life cause I listened to
the crap and let it take me over where love was an ugly word while your
destruction was the more important thing I should worry about. .

Hal Lindsey...The Late Great Planet Earth and Satan is Alive and Well On
Planet Earth. Hogwash.....every drop of it,came from his image maker,
imagining the worst for his brothers while he set as pretty as a picture on
top of the world waiting for the doom, gloom and despair to hit. He himself
created a lot of gloom, doom and despair by people following his feeble
attempts to see into the mind of God.
Not one word of love, faith and hope. Not one.
I'm always leery of men trying to divide countrymen into hatefulmen but
that's how the so called prophets make their money and put on a show.
What they don't know is the country they see as a Holy Terror is their own
country, the ones out there are only a reflection of what is taking place on
the Holy ground of every mans heart. Their gloom and doom, despair and such
has overcome them to where they cannot see that their brother whom is
unworthy to them is still a worthy soul to the Father who created it.

I wanted to write a book
God is Alive and Well on Planet Earth but they said nobody would believe it.

Thanks for listening.

Lots of faith, hope & love,
sensible2me


Ben Mitts

unread,
Jan 5, 2004, 10:50:03 PM1/5/04
to
oldwetdog wrote:

> Fervent, you are a false prophet.

Got a question here! Forgive me for
butting in but where did Fervent
post anything that can be construed
as Prophecy! I would like to read it for
myself! Can you help me here!

--
May God continue to richly Bless you!

Peace and Love in The Name of Jesus Christ!

Sincerely,
Ben mitts

From The Word of God: And as Moses lifted up the serpent
in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up
that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life."

http://acc-growing-deeper.de

twice-born child

unread,
Jan 5, 2004, 11:00:49 PM1/5/04
to

"matt" <mattbr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vn7kvv4vltg8p10qn...@4ax.com...


I know brother,

tbc

oldwetdog

unread,
Jan 5, 2004, 11:05:16 PM1/5/04
to
sensible2me wrote:

Thanks for posting.
listening to your descriptive words is my pleasure.

The Lord lead you home, Sister,

--
oldwetdog
-----
"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
mind." Jacques Maritain
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/

.

oldwetdog

unread,
Jan 5, 2004, 11:09:08 PM1/5/04
to
Ben Mitts wrote:

> oldwetdog wrote:
>
>> Fervent, you are a false prophet.
>
>
> Got a question here! Forgive me for
> butting in but where did Fervent
> post anything that can be construed
> as Prophecy! I would like to read it for
> myself! Can you help me here!
>

As you should.

http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=OHUXa.267%24%25T.122%40edtnps84

(watch for word-wrap)
And there are more, check google archive.
Ask fervent, too.
See Feather's posts to fervent.

Mike Bugal

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 3:37:00 AM1/6/04
to
"oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> wrote in message
news:vvkd74g...@corp.supernews.com...

> Ben Mitts wrote:
> > oldwetdog wrote:
> >
> >> Fervent, you are a false prophet.
> > Got a question here! Forgive me for
> > butting in but where did Fervent
> > post anything that can be construed
> > as Prophecy! I would like to read it for
> > myself! Can you help me here!
> >
>
> As you should.
>
>
http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=OHUXa.267%24%25T.1
22%40edtnps84
>
> (watch for word-wrap)
> And there are more, check google archive.
> Ask fervent, too.
> See Feather's posts to fervent.

The more recent ones: news:v83Kb.160467$ss5.36160@clgrps13


Maybe Ben has a point. Maybe fervent wasn't "prophesying". Maybe fervent is just
like Dore... he actually thinks he *is* God. Personally, I at least give him
credit for being a false prophet rather than insane!

His and Yours,

Mike Bugal
Heartland Chapel Ministries
http://www.heartlandchapel.org


Mark and Bev Tindall

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 12:55:26 AM1/6/04
to
> Phi 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever is true ... dwell on these things.

Ben Mitts

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 11:45:51 AM1/6/04
to
oldwetdog wrote:

> Ben Mitts wrote:
>
>> oldwetdog wrote:
>>
>>> Fervent, you are a false prophet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Got a question here! Forgive me for
>> butting in but where did Fervent
>> post anything that can be construed
>> as Prophecy! I would like to read it for
>> myself! Can you help me here!
>>
>
> As you should.
>
> http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=OHUXa.267%24%25T.122%40edtnps84
>
> (watch for word-wrap)
> And there are more, check google archive.
> Ask fervent, too.
> See Feather's posts to fervent.
>

Pretty interesting stuff! The writer evidently
is writing in the "first" person style! So it looks
like it would be hard to decide whether the writer
is quoting an unnamed source! The odd part is that
when this occurs many make the assumption that
whom ever wrote it is speaking of himself! And
rightly so!

Now I have another question! Has there been a
denial on Fervent's end that he wrote this! Did
he say he was quoting this in any of his posts?

Ben Mitts

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 11:53:38 AM1/6/04
to
Mike Bugal wrote:

Hi Mike!

This is interesting! Was Fervent's post offered
as his "prophesy" or just used by him reference
material written by someone else to foster some
thing up for discussion?

Seems to me that if proper references were giv-
en as to the source of the message in contention
came from then all of this would have fallen by the
way side!

Something to think about anyway!

Mike Bugal

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 2:21:49 PM1/6/04
to
"Ben Mitts" <bmit...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3FFAE812...@comcast.net...
Hi, Ben.

> This is interesting! Was Fervent's post offered
> as his "prophesy" or just used by him reference
> material written by someone else to foster some
> thing up for discussion?

Are fervent's postings not showing up on your reader? Have you read the one that
I linked to above? That should answer your questions. He talks as if he is
God... in the first person singular. You know how people do "prophesying" in AoG
and other Pentecostal/Charismatic churches, don't you? Just like that!

His and Yours,

Mike Bugal
Heartland Chapel Ministries
http://www.heartlandchapel.org

> Seems to me that if proper references were giv-

oldwetdog

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 4:02:01 PM1/6/04
to
Ben Mitts wrote:

Not that I am aware.
In the most recent posts, he refers to his own posts as if they are his,
and is offering an explanation of what he meant. It is apparent to me
that he is himself composing what he is going to say (even if he is
doing it on the fly) and yet speaking *as* God.
He is speaking in first person singular, "I" as if he is God, or the
Spirit of God is in residence in him.

IMHO, since his prophecy is false and/or contradicts God's Word and
revealed prophecy, the spirit speaking is not the Holy Spirit.

--
oldwetdog
-----
"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
mind." Jacques Maritain
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/

.

Vera Six

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 4:45:09 PM1/6/04
to
> He is speaking in first person singular, "I" as if he is God, or the
> Spirit of God is in residence in him.

Yes, that has always been true. The Spirit is in residence in him,
as He is in others, in me, too.

But I cannot see the Spirit speaking out of you, Old Wet Dog.

You are lost, and you should fear what will come.

Where is there Jesus in your heart?

Where is there hope?

Where is there love?

Faith, hope and love - that will be all that matters in the end.

But you are lacking all.

All I can see is you having the aim to harm and ruin the Body of Christ.

I rebuke you Old Wet Dog, to leave that.

You are the false prophet!

Vera


Vera Six

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 4:48:10 PM1/6/04
to
Maybe someone can send it to OWD as he is blocking me as I asked him
to do so a while ago. But now when I see the best people are leaving, I
will not remain silent any longer to his evil doing.

Vera
Spirit led


"Vera Six" <veranospa...@t-online.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:btfac4$t74$06$1...@news.t-online.com...

Mark and Bev Tindall

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 4:41:04 PM1/6/04
to
"Mike Bugal" wrote:

> Are fervent's postings not showing up on your reader? Have you read the
one that
> I linked to above? That should answer your questions. He talks as if he is
> God... in the first person singular. You know how people do "prophesying"
in
> AoG and other Pentecostal/Charismatic churches, don't you? Just like that!


In all my years in pentecoatal churches I have never heard one prophecy that
actually came true unless there were broad paraphrases of scripture that
spoke in generalities.

Most of these "prophets" have severe problems with their own self image and
like to hear the sound of their own voice. They believe they are the sole
mouth piece of God like the Old testament prophets and that everything in
their prophecies has the SAME weight as the bible. They are wrong!

If you analyse what Fervent vomits, he basically says nothing important. He
wants to add God's imprimatur on Vera 666's webshite. He wishes that God
would sanction the sins of Grizzle Guts and Vera 666.

Pentecostal churches used to alays sing the choruse (ad nauseum) "Let God
arise, His enemies be scattered" but change the lyric to "Let God arise, His
eniemies be splattered". It is this type of military warlike thinking that
is the base of Fervent's vomit.

I consider Fervent's vomit to be as authentically the voice of God as the
Hitler Diaries are true. ;-)

Quote them back at the "prophet" and remind him that the OT punishment for
false prophecy is death. Is he willing to pay the price if he is exposed as
a fraud?

Mark and Bev Tindall

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 5:05:34 PM1/6/04
to
Vera 666

>But now when I see the best people are leaving, I will not remain silent
any longer > to his evil doing.
>
> Vera
> Spirit led

........... but WHAT spirit????? ;-)

DRESDEN APPROACHES!!!!

Mark and Bev Tindall

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 4:56:26 PM1/6/04
to

Ben Mitts

unread,
Jan 6, 2004, 8:42:22 PM1/6/04
to
oldwetdog wrote:

I think you are right! He
has posted the message
again in the same manner
I asked him some questions
so I have to wait to see if he
chooses to answer!

Griz

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 11:21:36 AM1/7/04
to
>IMHO, since his prophecy is false and/or contradicts God's Word and
>revealed prophecy, the spirit speaking is not the Holy Spirit.
>
>--
>oldwetdog

Your own words Glenn.

Has what you've shared - method, motive and mindset - been a truthful
representation of God's Word, Jesus Christ?

He is our focus. If you contradict him in what you share today, are you not
also the false prophet, misspeaking contrary to God's Living Word.

Our focus is Jesus.

Yours in service,

Griz


Mark and Bev Tindall

unread,
Jan 7, 2004, 9:38:21 PM1/7/04
to
"Griz" wrote:

> Has what you've shared - method, motive and mindset - been a truthful
> representation of God's Word, Jesus Christ?
>
> He is our focus. If you contradict him in what you share today, are you
not
> also the false prophet, misspeaking contrary to God's Living Word.
>
> Our focus is Jesus.

The focus of this unmoderated newsgroup is Christian life.

Remember the bible says in Phi 4:8 "Finally, brethren, whatever is TRUE ...
dwell on these things." (my emphasis)

Would you like to repond to the following of my posts?


###############################

For all at alt.christnet.christianlife

Now that the Grizzle Guts cult has lost most of its sting the question of
how we treat former members and their victims is an issue that needs to be
discussed and addressed by all, as is our learning from the mistakes of the
past.

When the Nazis took over Germany in WW II the Lutheran church was divided
into those who supported Hitler and those who opposed him. After the war
the two sides reconciled and became one again with forgiveness on both
sides.

We cannot be like those who have victimised us. We cannot be tryrants of
another ilk or "bullies for freedom" when the war is over. We cannot change
the old regime for a new regime.

If we claim to be Christian then we should great others who claim to be
Christian as our brothers and sisters. As this unmoderated forum is for ALL
Christians there will always be denominational differences. This should not
be a bar for fellowship nor a reason to stop talking to another who claims
to be Christian. No-one should be forced to believe the same doctrine as
another Christian.

In the same manner, there can be no leaders. We are ALL equal in Christ and
members of the same body. We ALL have a part to play ... including Vera and
Griz.

I ask for others to comment on and discuss this aspect that needs to be
addressed before it arrives on our doorstep unawares.

Maybe you could read II Corinthians 3-11 as a start for these dicussions.
There has been a fight for the freedom of this newsgroup. That freedom is
all but won. What do we do now to heal the victims and help the vanquished?

Mark


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