preaching and divorce
Aaron Kim
Pastor Steve Winter <steve...@prime.org> wrote in message
news:jdvvlugqnmlgni3pp...@4ax.com...
> "Mark Bassett" <mbasset@not_optonline.net> spake thusly and wrote
> the devil woman Fredericka Lohr:
>
> >
> >Of course. Do you think that God judged me to hell before I was born? I
> >suspect you do.
>
> God judged the sins that you knowingly and willingly commit
> and lead others to commit, to result in hell, reprobate Bassett.
>
> Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the
> abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and
> idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which
> burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
>
> God judged all liars before we were born and as we all know:
>
> "Mark Bassett is, above all things, a liar."<tm>
>
> Of course even if MW Bassett was not already disqualified from
> the ministry because of a previous marriage, divorce and
> remarriage, his other malicious, deceitful and even criminal
> activities (some even documented at
> http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html ) would also show that he is
> not even a real Christian, much less a "preacher".
>
> The UPCI (United Pentecostal Church International) has some very
> real problems with their blatant rebellion to the Word of God and
> Mr. MW Bassett is a walking testimony to that fact.
>
> The real tragedy here is that even a small handful of poor
> gullible souls are actually looking to some reprobate like Mark
> Bassett as their pastor. Now any real Oneness people reading out
> here need to think long and hard about that one! Pray for them
> that God will let them see Mr. Bassett for that which he is and
> that the Lord would reward Mr. Bassett according to his works
> along with the pompous, backslidden, pride engorged UPC elders
> who knowingly support him in his sin and reprobate ministry.
>
> Pastor Steve Winter
There is no true church except that which is led by the Melchizedek
Priesthood. Prophet Joseph Smith said, "All men are liars who say they are
of the true Church without the revelations of Jesus Christ and the
Priesthood of Melchizedek, which is after the order of the Son of God." A
person who graduated from seminary school cannot start his own chapel and
preach. This type of preaching is called secteranism. There are all sorts of
sects such as baptist, roman-catholic, protestant,
methodist,preysbertian,etc. None of them receive revelation do they like in
ancient times?
When Joseph Smith was in his adolescence, around 15 years old , there was a
great deal of religious commotion among all the different sects of churches
around where he lived trying to bring in new converts. He decided to pray to
the Lord in the woods near his house to find out which of these churches he
should join, being inspired by the Bible, James 1:5," If any of you lack
wisdom, let him ask of God ,that giveth to all men liverally, and
up-braideth not; and it shall be given him." To make it short, he saw two
Personages glowing with light brighter than the sun who were the Father and
the Son.
Joseph Smith-History 1: 18-20
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the
sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did
I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the
Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right
(for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were
wrong)-and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;
and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an
abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that:
"they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me,
they teach for doctines the commandements of men, having a form of
godliness, but they deny the power thereof."
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did
he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time, When I came to myself
again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the
light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I
went home, And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the
matter was. I replied,"Never mnd, all is well-I am well enough off." I then
said to my mother,"I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not
true."It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of
my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his
kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the
opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?
However after the absence of this Melchizedek Priesthood that Adam, Enoch,
Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus Christ,etc. were ordained and
preached by following the passing away of the 12 Apostles, the Dark Ages
followed in Europe. However that Priesthood was restored in its fullness
through the conferring of Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery to the Melchizedek
Priesthood by the translated ancient Apostles, Peter,James, and John in
1829.
Hebrews 5:8-10
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the thing which e
suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all
them that obey him;
10 Called of God an hight priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Discourses of Brigham Young
"If anybody wants to know what the Priesthood of the Son of God is, it is
the law by which the worlds are, were, and will continue forever and ever.
It is that system which brings worlds into existence and peoples them, gives
them their revolutions-their days, weeks, months, years, their seasons and
times and by which they are rolled up as a scroll, as it were, and go into a
higher state of existence." pg.130
"This Priesthood has been on the earth at various times. Adam had it, Seth
had it, Enoch had it, Noah had it, Abraham and Lot had it, and it was handed
down to the days of the Prophets, long after the days of the ancients. This
High Priesthood rules, directs, governs, and controls all the Priesthoods,
because it is the hightest of all."pg.131
"I never passed John Wesley's church in London without stopping to look at
it. Was he a good man? Yes, I suppose him to have been ,by all accounts, as
good as ever walked on this earth, according to his knowledge. Has he
obtained a rest? Yes, and greater than ever entered his mind to expect; and
so have thousands of others of the various relilgiou denominations. Why
could he not build up the Kingdom of God on the earth? He had not the
Priesthood, that was all the difficulty he labored under. Had the Priesthood
been conferred upon him, he would have built up the Kingdom of God in his
day as it is now being built up. He would have introduced the ordinances,
powers,grades, and quorums of the Priesthoo; but, not holding the
Priesthood, he could not do it. Did the Spirit of God rest upon him.? Yes,
and does, more or less, at times, upon all people."
pg.136
So you may ask yourself, Who holds the keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood?
There is only one Lord's annointed at a time like Moses, David, Peter,
Joseph Smith, etc. Right now it is the One Mighty and Strong who has been
prophesized in Isaiah to lead the remnants of Israel to build Zion. He goes
by the name Art Bulla and he has received a complete set of written
revelations like all the ancient prophets of Israel in the Bible and the
Book of Mormon have. Yes modern revelations are real when it is through the
Priesthood. God tells us in the scriptures that He is the same yesterday,
today, and forever, doesn't He? Why would He respect one generation over
another since He tells us He is no respector of persons? The Lord
prophesizes of the mission of the One Mighty and Strong.
Prophet Joseph Smith says in Doctrines & Covenants 103:15-18:
15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;
16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like
as Moses led the children of Israel.
17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye
must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.
18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption
of Zion be.
Isaiah 11:1-10 prophesizes the coming of the One Mighty and Strong. It talks
about 3 descendants of Jesse, a Rod,a Stem, and a Root.
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch
shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and
understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and
of the fear of the LORD;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he
shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, nieither reprove after the
hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity
for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his
mouth, and with breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the
girdle of his reins.
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down
with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and
a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down
together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the suckling child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned
child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth
shall be full of the knowleged of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an
ensign of the people: to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be
glorious.
In Doctrines & Covenants Section 113, Joseph Smith the Prophet receives
revelations on the identity of the Rod, the Stem, and the Root of Jesse:
1 Who is the the Stem of Jesse spoken of in the 1st, 2d,3d,4th,and 5th
verses of the 11th chapter of Isaiah?
2 Verily thus saith the Lord: It is Christ.
3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of
Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?
4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who
is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of
Joseph, on whom there is laid much power. (It doesn't give a specific name
for who this is but it is a given that this is Joseph Smith himself.)
5 What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter?
6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse ,as well as of
Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the
kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days.
The last 2 verses above is a reference to the One Mighty and Strong. Prophet
Joseph Smith and OMS, Art Bulla are both literal descendants of Jesus
Christ, who had multiple wives, and children The Bible says that the keys to
the kingdom would be given to a descendant of David
Genesis 49:10
10 The sceptre (see 85th Sec. of D&C quoted down the email) shall not depart
from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and
unto him (shall) the gathering of the people (be).
2 Samuel 7:12-16
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I
will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and
I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of
his kingdom for ever.
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I
will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children
of men:
15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took (it) from Saul,
whom I put away before thee.
16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever.
2 Chronicles 13:4-5
4 And Abijah stood up upon mount Zemaraim, which (is) in mount Ephraim, and
said, Hear me, thou Jeroboam, and all Israel:
5 Ought ye not to know that the LORD God of Israel gave the kingdom over
Israel to David for ever, (even) to him and to his sons by a covenant of
salt?
Psalms 89:3-4, 28
3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all
generations. Selah.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand
just with him.
There is reference in Isaiah 28:1-2 of the One Mighty and Strong:
1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim,. whose glorious
beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them
that are overcome with wine!
2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail
and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast
down to the earth with the hand.
In verse 1, it's talking about the apostasized Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter Day Saints, the Mormon Church. The North American continent is the
land of Joseph, Ephraim. Art Bulla, the One Mighty and Strong, has been sent
to redeem this Church from its apostasized state. The Mormon Church which
enjoyed "the fullness of the Gospel" has apostasized by giving the
Priesthood to the seed of Cain, the negro race. They've also changed other
doctrines to be more politically correct ,being friends with world.
I know Art Bulla is the One Mighty and Strong, who I've met personally
several times and he is a pleasant man who shows good fruits. Jesus said,
"By their fruits, ye shall know them." I know his mission is true because
the Holy Spirit has mainifested itself to me powerfully and given me a
testimony of it. Pray and ask if this is true or not (James 1:5)You can
download a complete set of revelations that Art Bulla has received as the
One Mighty and Strong by going to www.artbulla.com/zion/order.html
I know this is a lot of information to take in at once but it is the truth.
It's better you know it as soon as possible and seperate yourselves from all
the false secterian doctrines out there.
Aaron
Kim
On line radio station:
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"All men are liars who say they are of the true Church without the
revelations of Jesus Christ and the Priesthood of Melchizedek, which is
after the order of the Son of God."
Joseph Smith; TPJS p. 376
Patrick
>There is no true church except that which is led by the Melchizedek
>Priesthood.
+ Who sez so? And, what is their source?
>When Joseph Smith was in his adolescence, around 15 years old , there was a
>great deal of religious commotion among all the different sects of churches
>around where he lived trying to bring in new converts. He decided to pray to
>the Lord in the woods near his house to find out which of these churches he
>should join, being inspired by the Bible, James 1:5," If any of you lack
>wisdom, let him ask of God ,that giveth to all men liverally, and
>up-braideth not; and it shall be given him." To make it short, he saw two
>Personages glowing with light brighter than the sun who were the Father and
>the Son.
+ Yeah, right.
+ And then some moronic angel handed him a book of gold pages that
ONLY Joey could see. Yeah.... And then Joey sits down and
transcribes or translates this book into English, yeah.... And then
Joey decides to build his own church.... yeah....
Just like David koresch, Jim Jones, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggart and
all the other lozers that proclaim they have the only faith.
+ I like the next part - Only Joey gets ta see this book.... and then
... poof - it is all gone. Nobuddy gets another look see.
Exceptin... well.... Joey musta pissed God off cuz he wuz struck dead
in Illinois or Ohio -- before the rest of the cult could find a home
in Utah.....
+ Tell us more......puleeze!
Phar-Lap
Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote:
> I know Art Bulla is the One Mighty and Strong, who I've met personally
> several times and he is a pleasant man who shows good fruits.
There's no answer to a line like that it says it all!
Phar-Lap
<bark...@erinet.com> wrote:
> "Aaron Kim" wrote:
> >There is no true church except that which is led by the Melchizedek
> >Priesthood.
>
> + Who sez so? And, what is their source?
>
> >When Joseph Smith was in his adolescence, around 15 years old , there was a
> >great deal of religious commotion among all the different sects of churches
> >around where he lived trying to bring in new converts. He decided to pray to
> >the Lord in the woods near his house to find out which of these churches he
> >should join,
When he got older he discovered that none of them allowed him to have sex
with little girls - so he invented his own with "plural marriage"
His youngest wife of 33 wives was fourteen but marriage to twelve and
thirteen year old girls became quite common in the early days of the
Mormon fraud.
I don't think it was the Lord he was talking to somehow - more likely it
was the "translating peepstone" he kept in his hat in case he had Egyptian
document to translate.
Unfortunately the stone got all the translations wrong - they are worthless.
But the Morons only found out later - and some still don't know
Raymond
"Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote in message
news:Z6e89.454$NZ.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...> > Pastor
Steve Winter
>
> There is no true church except that which is led by the Melchizedek
> Priesthood. Prophet Joseph Smith said, "All men are liars who say they are
You may have that correct, the only true church that is going to Hell is the
one started by Joseph Smith.
> Aaron
> Kim
>
This article is an exact reproduction of a letter compiled by The
Smithsonian Institution that was received by Computers for
Christ, and has been graciously provided free of charge by them.
For your own copy, write to:
The Smithsonian Institute
National Museum of Natural History
Department of Anthropology
Washington D.C.
20560.
Computers For Christ, Panama City, Fl.
----------------------------------------------------------------
[Page 1]
Information from the
NATIONAL MUSEUM OF OF NATURAL HISTORY
Smithsonian Institution Washington D.C.
Your recent inquiry concerning the Book of Mormon has been
received in the Smithsonian's Department of Anthropology.
The book of Mormon is a religious document and not a scientific
guide. The Smithsonian Institution does not use it in
archeological research. Because the Smithsonian Institution
receives many inquiries regarding the book of Mormon, we have
prepared a "Statement Regarding the Book of Mormon," a copy of
which is enclosed for your information. This statement
includes answers to questions most commonly asked about the Book
of Mormon.
PREPARED BY
THE DEPARTMENT OF ANTHROPOLOGY
----------------------------------------------------------------
[Page 2]
STATEMENT REGARDING THE BOOK OF MORMON
--------------------------------------
1. The Smithsonian Institution has never used the Book of Mormon
in any way as a scientific guide. The Smithsonian archeologists
see no direct connection between archeology of the New World and
the subject matter of the book.
2. The physical type of American Indian is basically Mongoloid,
being most closely related to that of the peoples of eastern,
central, and northeastern Asia. Archeological evidence indicates
that the ancestors of the present Indians came into the New World
-- probably over a land bridge known to have existed in the
Bering Staight region during the last Ice Age -- in a continuing
series of small migrations beginning from about 25,000 to 30,000
years ago.
3. Present evidence indicates that the fist people to reach this
continent from the East were the Norsemen who who briefly visited
the northeastern part of North America around A.D. 1000 and then
settled in Greenland. There is nothing to show that they reached
Mexico or Central America.
4. One of the main lines of evidence supporting the scientific
finding that contacts with Old World civilizations, if indeed
they occured at all, were of very little significance for the
development of American Indian civilizations, is the fact that
none of the principal Old World domesticated food plants or
animals (except the dog) occured in the New World in pre-
Columbian times. American Indians had no wheat, barley, oats,
millet, rice, cattle, pigs, chickens, horses, donkeys, camels
before 1492. (camels and horses were in the Americas, along with
the bison, mammoth, mastodon, but all these animals became
extinct around 10,000 B.C. at the time the early big game hunters
spread across the Americas.)
SIL - 76
Summer 1982
-----------------------------------------------------------------
[Page 3]
5. Iron, steel, glass, and silk were not used in the New World
before 1492 (except for occasional use of unsmelted meteroic
iron). Native copper was worked in various locations in pre-
Columbian times, but true metallurgy was limited to southern
Mexico and the Andean region, where its occurance in late
prehistoric times involved gold, silver, copper, and their
alloys, but not iron.
6. There is a possibility that the spread of cultural traits
across the Pacific to Mesoamerica and the northwestern coast of
South America began several hundred years before the Christian
era. However, any such inter-hemispheric contacts appear to have
been the results of accidental voyages originating in eastern and
southern Asia. It is by no means certain that even such contacts
occured with the ancient Egyptians, Hebrews, or other peoples of
Western Asia and the Near East.
7. No reputable Egyptologist or other specialist on Old World
archeology, and no expert on New World prehistory, has discovered
or confirmed any relationship between archeological remains in
Mexico and archeological remains in Egypt.
8. Reports of findings of ancient Egyptian, Hebrew, and other
Old World writtings in the New World in pre-Columbian contexts
have frequently appeared in newspapers, magazines and sensational
books. None of these claims has stood up to examination by
reputable scholars. No inscriptions using Old World forms of
writing have been shown to have occured in any part of the
Americas before 1492 except for a few Norse rune stones which
have been found in Greenland.
9. There are copies of the Book of Mormon in the library of the
National Museum of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution.
Raymond
" Phar-Lap" <grandn...@aintree.com> wrote in message
news:grandnational-2...@ppp84.dyn10.pacific.net.au...
He sounds like the good looking angel that got himself kicked out of Heaven
and has reservations for seats in Hell.
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the
morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations
Lucifer
Brilliant star, a title given to the king of Babylon #Isa 14:12 to denote
his glory.
Zechariah 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan;
even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand
plucked out of the fire?
Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is
written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Raymond
"Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote in message
news:Z6e89.454$NZ.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
Mark Hofmann, the Salt Lake City documents dealer on trial for
murder, recently admitted in court that he planted the two bombs that
killed Steven Christensen and Katherine Sheets and that he forged at
least two documents purported to be key pieces in the puzzle of early
Mormon church history.
This affair has dealt a great blow to the reputation of the Mormon
church. The church has had to admit that it was buying documents from
hofmann to prevent their publication. The documents dealt with Mormon
prophet Joseph Smith's money-digging and involvement in occult
practices. The church, in its zeal to keep the purchases secret,
played right into Hofmann's hands by not having the documents examined
for authenticity. Sure enough, the documents later were found to be
forgeries.
Despite this, the documents forced Mormon scholars to own up to
Smith's background in occult practices and acknowledge that, the
documents aside, there was enough evidence to prove Smith's occult
involvement.
Therefore, Mormon scholars have begun trying to justify Smith's
practices, saying that he wasn't any worse than anybody else living at
that time because belief in and practice of magic was pervasive in
18th and early 19th century America.
The scholars go on to say that it was the coming of the
enlightenment and rationalism that changed people's outlook on occult
practices. These scholars say that since we don't live in that
culture any longer, it's hard for us to put ourselves in those
people's shoes.
However, research shows that as early as 1788 in New York, and
equally as early as Vermont, there were laws against occult practices
such as palmistry and witchcraft and that the press was generally
unfavorable to such claims.
Undaunted by that, Mormon scholars are now trying to find rationale
for Smith's occult practices. MORMON SCHOLAR DR. RICHARD ANDERSON
CONCEDED IN HIS LATEST BYU STUDIES ARTICLE THAT SMITH DID INDEED
PRACTICE MAGIC, (emphasis mine) but only up to 1826. When he dug up
the gold plates, Anderson says, he realized that he had a serious
mission and put his teenage follies behind him.
While this scenario is at best questionable, it does have one of
the staunch defenders of Mormon faith admitting that during the time
Smith supposedly was being prepared for the life of a prophet, he was
immersed in the occult and digging for money.
From the April-June PFO by WPW
Alan Ferris
>+ Yeah, right.
>+ And then some moronic angel handed him a book of gold pages that
>ONLY Joey could see. Yeah.... And then Joey sits down and
>transcribes or translates this book into English, yeah.... And then
>Joey decides to build his own church.... yeah....
>Just like David koresch, Jim Jones, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggart and
>all the other lozers that proclaim they have the only faith.
>+ I like the next part - Only Joey gets ta see this book.... and then
>... poof - it is all gone. Nobuddy gets another look see.
>Exceptin... well.... Joey musta pissed God off cuz he wuz struck dead
>in Illinois or Ohio -- before the rest of the cult could find a home
>in Utah.....
>+ Tell us more......puleeze!
And tomorrow we will hear Catholics moaning about how people do not
respect their religion.
--
Alan "the Full Monty" Ferrit
()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
Denizen of Darkness #42
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
Admiral Bob
> Priesthood.
Of course, by cross-posting over to
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, you've opened yourself up to
the debate of which churches actually even possess valid and
sacramentally handed over priestly orders at all. And using the normal
Christian canon of scriptures, that may not be a debate you want.
Raymond
"Admiral Bob" <admira...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:485facae.02082...@posting.google.com...
He will not reply personally, he only post his Mormon text files and such,
he thinks he is an Apostle, so knows more then the Pope or even you.
Raymond
Phar-Lap
>
> He will not reply personally, he only post his Mormon text files and such,
> he thinks he is an Apostle, so knows more then the Pope or even you.
>
Where do you get all these nutters running round the streets from?
I mean most countries have mental hospitals for those who see themselves
as Napoleon, or apostles, or channellers for alien intelligences
You seem to have them running around like bag ladies. Shouldn't they be
receiving some treatment? It is not a really good advert for your health
sytem over there.
What if one of them gets to be President!
*********************
Jonjones
> What if one of them gets to be President!
Obviously, the only possible response is: "Too late".
Raymond
>
> >
> > He will not reply personally, he only post his Mormon text files and
such,
> > he thinks he is an Apostle, so knows more then the Pope or even you.
> >
>
>
> Where do you get all these nutters running round the streets from?
Never seen any running the streets, and I suppose the ones you see as
nutters are your friends as you seem to know more about them, then I do.
:-)
>
> I mean most countries have mental hospitals for those who see themselves
> as Napoleon, or apostles, or channellers for alien intelligences
Those kind I try to help to the mental hospitals with I do work with, so
they not hurt themselves.
>
> You seem to have them running around like bag ladies. Shouldn't they be
> receiving some treatment? It is not a really good advert for your health
> sytem over there.
If you mean "You seem" personally, I don't have any running around and even
the Bag ladies, have a job to do, and are not doing anything to hurt me, so
why insult them. They all should be receiving treatment, have you taken
yours today, as you seem a little much, to take right now. I get my
treatment of hot coffee and a roll, in a moment. I dare say your system
has more bag ladies then ours has on the street. Here we provide them and
all street people, a place to come in out of the cold, a warm meal and free
blankets if they want to sleep on the streets. The health department is
having a hard time paying for all this, but it is free to them that need it.
Not sure about yours, it seems like you just want them out of your way, so
you won't see the needy and the poor, and live your life without caring, or
seeing. Then I don't see it that way. Live and let live, who knows, if
hard times comes your way, you be working with the bag ladies, to live
another day, if you call that living.
>
>
> What if one of them gets to be President!
Well I would have to wonder, why you voted for them.
Raymond
>
>
>
>
> *********************
Raymond
"JP" <perettij_pasd...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:xKg89.18306$cH2.1...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> > "Aaron Kim" wrote:
> > >There is no true church except that which is led by the Melchizedek
> > >Priesthood.
> >
> > + Who sez so? And, what is their source?
>
>
> Hebrews 6:20
> where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become
a
> high priest FOREVER, in the order of Melchizedek.
>
> There is none other than Jesus.... HE is our only redeemer.... He is
Himself
> our Salvation... It is not through membership in any denomination... Amen?
Next verse after Heb. 6:20 is Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem,
priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of
the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by
interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem,
which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning
of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a
priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham
gave the tenth of the spoils.
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of
the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to
the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of
Abraham:
6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham,
and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. KJV
>
> JP
>
>
cdowis
> "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote in message
> news:Z6e89.454$NZ.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...> > Pastor
> Steve Winter
> >
> > There is no true church except that which is led by the Melchizedek
> > Priesthood. Prophet Joseph Smith said, "All men are liars who say they are
>
> You may have that correct, the only true church that is going to Hell is the
> one started by Joseph Smith.
> > Aaron
> > Kim
> >
>
>
> This article is an exact reproduction of a letter compiled by The
> Smithsonian Institution that was received by Computers for
> Christ, and has been graciously provided free of charge by them.
> For your own copy, write to:
>
> The Smithsonian Institute
> National Museum of Natural History
> Department of Anthropology
> Washington D.C.
> 20560.
>
> Computers For Christ, Panama City, Fl.
Please get the latest version of the Smithsonian letter. It is
different from the one posted here (please note that the letter here
has no date). The previous versions of this letter has several
factual errors.
snip
Raymond
"cdowis" <cdo...@my-dejanews.com> wrote in message
news:93c36e92.02082...@posting.google.com...
I have other letters written at differant times, and the replies to them, I
suppose the Smithsonian doesn't keep on file a reply letter, so would show
different information on the same matter, the point is write them and find
out for oneself.
Aaron Kim
Prophet Joseph Smith said, "All men are liars who say they are of the true
Church without the revelations of Jesus Christ and the Priesthood of
Melchizedek, which is after the order of the Son of God." So the question
becomes does your church, and I mean anyone in general, have the Melchizedek
Priesthood? Every Lord's annointed from Adam to Seth to Noah to Abraham to
Moses and so on all held the keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood. If they are
not ordained of that Priesthood and not under the false traditions of man
then that church has absolutely no authority.
Hebrews 5:8-10
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he
suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all
them that obey him;
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Jesus was a hight priest after which order again? It is the order of
Melchisedec. How is God supposed to rule when you've got every church
proclaiming they preach the true doctrine? Who is to say which church has
the true authority? Doctrine and Covenants section 132:8, "Behold, mine
house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of
confusion."
Here's scriptural example on the importance of being baptized by the correct
authority as opposed by false ministers:
Acts 18:24-28
24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and
mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the
spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only
the baptism of John
(Apollos is like a Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, all the world's false
evangelist and priests and ministers)
26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and
Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way
of God more perfectly.
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote,
exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come helped them
much which had believed through grace:
28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the
scriptures that Jesus was Christ.
Acts 19:1-7
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having
passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus; and finding certain
disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And
they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy
Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said,
Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance,
saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come
after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the HOly Ghost came on them;
and they sapke with tongues, and prophesied.
While Apollos and some ministers may have had good intentions in trying
to preach the Gospel, there has to be a correct order and set of ordinances
and rules by which the Gospel is preached. The road to good intentions is
paved through hell is an appropriate saying.
So as Paul rebapized those people bapized by Apollos, I ask that those
loving the truth and seeking eternal life to be rebaptized by the correct
authority, by Art Bulla, the One Mighty and Strong spoken of in Isaiah 28 or
his Apostles Jong, myself or Don, who has been just recently ordained to the
office of 70 Apostles.
Discourses of Brigham Young pg.135
" Where the Priesthood is not, the people are expected to live according
to the best knowledge they have; but even then they cannot with impunity
commit many heinous fautls. The Lord more readily overlooks them in
consequence of their unenlightened condition, and there is a kingdom
prepared for them.
When a man merely from a spirit of conviction goes forth to build up the
Kingdom of God--to reform the nations of the earth, he can go so far as
morality operates upon and enlightens him; but he is without authority from
heaven. We are under no obligation to obery any man or being in matter
pertaining to salvation, unless his words have the authority and sanction of
the holy Priesthood."
DBY pg. 136
" Seek diligently to know the will of God. How can you know it? In matters
pertaining to yourselves as individuals, you can obtain it directly from the
Lord; but in matters pertaining to public affairs, his will is ascertained
through the proper channel, and may be known by the general counsel that is
given you from the proper source."
Admiral Bob, I'd like to hear these "Christian canon of scriptures" you
referred to and Jong and myself are interested in debating you or anyone
else for the edification of the truth.
On line radio station:
<http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=artbulla>
We broadcast live Wed. and Sun. 7pm PST
At other times, this link plays recorded Gospel talks, 24/7.
You just need a 28.8k modem connection or faster to the Internet.
It's a mp3 stream, real time.
During broadcast or afterwards, should you have any questions, feel free to
chat with us and ask questions through Microsoft Internet Messenger. You can
download Internet Messenger for real time chat from
<http://messenger.microsoft.com>
In order to find me on MSN Messenger, my email address for that is
rh...@hotmail.com <mailto:rh...@hotmail.com>
To download Revelations of Jesus Christ Vol.1 & 2, Teachings of the One
Mighty and Strong, and Lectures on True Doctrine
visit www.artbulla.com/zion/order.html
Aaron
"Brethren, this Church will be led on to the very brink of hell by the
leaders of this Church, and then God will raise up the One, Mighty and
Strong spoken of in the 85th Section of the Doctrines and Covenants to save
and redeem this Church." Brigham Young
Aaron Kim
JP <perettij_pasd...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:xKg89.18306$cH2.1...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> > >There is no true church except that which is led by the Melchizedek
> > >Priesthood.
> >
> > + Who sez so? And, what is their source?
>
>
> Hebrews 6:20
> where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become
a
> high priest FOREVER, in the order of Melchizedek.
>
> There is none other than Jesus.... HE is our only redeemer.... He is
Himself
> our Salvation... It is not through membership in any denomination... Amen?
>
The Bible tells us that faith without works is dead
James 2: 14 What doth it profit , my brethren, though a man say he hath
faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled;
notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body;
what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
So if we say we have faith in the Gospel, what's the point if we fail to
live godly lives and go to church? As the above verses aptly point out, our
faiths then would ring pretty hollow, unbelievers would laugh at us when we
profess our faith to them. Attending a church is a mandatory requirement of
a Christian life Regular attendance helps maintain and grow our faith in
Christ. The Twelve Apostles built the first Church of Jesus Christ, they
didn't just say everyone do as you please, worship as you desire as long as
you have faith,did they? There is an organized establishment, a set of rules
and ordinances, by which the Lord rules a church. Doctrines and Covenants
section 132:8 says,"Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord
God, and not a house of confusion." This establishment by which the Lord
rules is called the Melchizedek Priesthood.
"What is Priesthood? It is the government of God, whether on the earth or in
the heavens, for it is by that power, agency, or principle that all things
are governed on the earth and in the heavens, and by that power that all
things are upheld and sustained. It governs all things-it directs all
things-it sustains all things-and has to do with all things that God and
truth are associated with. It is the power of God delegated to intelligences
in the heavens and to man on the earth." John Taylor
Hebrew, chapter 5
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto
all them that obey him;
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Prophet Joseph Smith said"All men are liars who say they are of the true
Church without the revelations of Jesus Christ and the Priesthood of
Melchizedek, which is after the order of the Son of God." (Teachings of the
Prophet Smith pg. 376) So all these dominations, sects of churches are all
liars and as God revealed to Joseph Smith in his first vision are an
abomination to Him.
Joseph Smith- History 1:19
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;
and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an
abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that:"they
draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they
teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but
they deny the power thereof."
Adam, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus
Christ, Peter,Joseph Smith.among others, and now Art Bulla, that One Mighty
and Strong spoken of in Isaiah 11:10 and 28:2( I know Art is that man
prophesized because Jong and I and others have felt the Holy Spirit manifest
in us to the very shaking of our bodies and the light radiating in our
bodies or we would not know that this work is true) , were ordained into the
Melchizedek Priesthood being the Lord's anointed of which there is only one
at a time. "This Priesthood has been on the earth at various times. Adam had
it, Seth had it, Enoch had it, Noah had it. Abraham and Lot had it, and it
was handed down to the days of the Prophets, long after the days of the
ancients. This High Priesthood rules, directs, governs, and controls all the
Priesthoods, because it is the highest of all." Brigham Young. Journal of
Discourses pg.131
Remember Jesus Christ Himself had to be baptized and conferred Himself by
John the Baptist to the Priesthood before He could do the Lord's work. That
was absolutely required.
However, the Priesthood and the Church are seperate. The church is given
orders by the Priesthood. If the church apostasizes by not heeding the
commandments of the Priesthood, then they will be cast off if they don't
repent and the Lord will build up a Church from somewhere else. (The Mormon
Church has apostasized after giving the Negro the Priesthood in 1978
although they were already in a state of decline by departing from certain
doctrines.).
"We are asked, is the Church of God, and the Kingdom of God the same
organization? And we are informed that some of the brethren hold that they
are separate. This is the correct view to take. The Kingdom of God is a
seperate organization from the Church of God. There may be men acting as
officers in the Kingdom of God who will not be members of the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints." George Q. Cannon. Joseph Smith and World
Government:pg.9
"A man may be a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and it may have nothing to do
with his being the President of the Church. Suffice it to say, that Joseph
was the President of the Church as long as he lived: the people chose to
have it so. He always filled that responsible station, by the voice of the
people. Can you find any revelation appointing him the president of the
Church? The keys of the priesthood were committed to Joseph, to build up the
kingdom of God on earth, and were not to be taked from him in time or
eternity; but when he was called to preside over the Church, it was the
voice of the people; though he had the keys of the priesthood, independent
of their voice." Brigham Young. Journal of Discourses
The apostasy of the Mormon Church shows why it's a good reason why the
Priesthood is seperate from the church. Brigham Young prophesized of the
current state of the church and the coming of the One Mighty and
Strong:"."Brethren, this Church will be led on to the very brink of hell by
the leaders of this Church, and then God will raise up the One, Mighty, and
Stron spoken of in the 85th Section of Doctrine and Covenants to save and
redeem this Church."
D&C 85:7 says,"And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one
mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with
light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while
his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God,
and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found,
and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book
of the law of God."
JP, therefore, there is channel by which the Lord must be worshipped just
like in the days of old. That medium , that Priesthood was restored by the
Lord through Joseph Smith. Otherwise, these secterian churches,
denominations just make up their own thoughts and interpretations on what
Biblical scriptures mean, create all sort of silly dietary rules like the
Pharisees do and the Mormons now do They do not get revelations like Art
Bulla, the One Mighty and Strong, does.Art Bulla has been appointed by
revelation through the Lord to redeem the fallen church that Jong,.Don
Allen, and I are part of, to prepare to build Zion, aka New Jerusalem which
is in Missouri, USA. I suggest you pray about what you have read, if Joseph
Smith and Art Bulla are true prophets of God. James 1:5 says,"If any lack
wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth
not; and it shall be given him."
Aaron Kim
Raymond
>
> Raymond <rwk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ajvebv$n8...@rain.i-cable.com...
> >
> > "Admiral Bob" <admira...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:485facae.02082...@posting.google.com...
> > > "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote in message
> > news:<Z6e89.454$NZ.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> > > > There is no true church except that which is led by the Melchizedek
> > > > Priesthood.
> > >
> > > Of course, by cross-posting over to
> > > alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, you've opened yourself up to
> > > the debate of which churches actually even possess valid and
> > > sacramentally handed over priestly orders at all. And using the normal
> > > Christian canon of scriptures, that may not be a debate you want.
> >
> > He will not reply personally, he only post his Mormon text files and
such,
> > he thinks he is an Apostle, so knows more then the Pope or even you.
> >
> > Raymond
>
> Prophet Joseph Smith said, "All men are liars who say they are of the true
So Mr. Joe Smith says Jesus was a liar, since he was a men. No wonder you
cult LDS folk follow Satan.
TEN REASONS WHY SHOULD NOT BE A MORMON!
1. MORMONISM DOES NOT TEACH THAT THE BIBLE IS THE INFALLIBLE WORK
OF GOD.
"We believe the Bible to the Word of God as far as it is
translated correctly; we also believe the book of Mormon to be the
word of God" (Articles of Faith, No. 8).
As Christians we believe the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New
Testaments to the verbally inspired Word of God, the final
authority for faith and life, inerrant in the original writings,
infallible and God-breathed (2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:20-21; Matt
5:18).
2. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT GOD IS AN EXALTED MAN AND HAS A PHYSICAL
BODY.
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man"
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345). "The Father has a
body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's..." (Doc. & Cov., Sec.
131:22)
The Bible says, "God is not a man..." (Num. 23:19). "God is a
Spirit; and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in
truth" (John 4:24). "A spirit hath not flesh and bones..." (Lk.
24:39).
3. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT CHRIST AND THE DEVIL ARE BROTHERS.
"...that Lucifer, the son of morning, is our elder brother and the
brother of Jesus Christ" (Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, pp.
163-4).
The Bible says that the devil is a created being, created by God.
"thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezekiel 28:15). "For by Him
(Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in
earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, of dominions,
or principalities, or powers; all things were created by Him and for
Him..." (Col. 1:15-17).
4. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT JESUS WAS MARRIED AND THE HE IS POLYGAMOUS.
"We say it was Jesus Christ who was married at Cana of Galilee"
(Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 80). Mormonism teaches that Jesus
was the natural child of Adam and Mary. "When the Virgin Mary
conceived the Child Jesus....He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.
And who is his Father? He is the first of the human family" (Brigham
Young, Journal of Discourses, pp. 50-51).
The Bible says, " In the beginning was the Word (Christ), and the
Word was with God, and the Word was God;...The Word was made flesh and
dwelt among us..." (John 1:1, 14). "Then Mary said unto the angel,
How shall this be, seeing that I know not a man? And the angel
answered... The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee..."(Lk. 1:34-35).
5. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT THE TRUE CHURCH CEASED TO EXIST UNTIL IT
WAS RESTORED TO JOSEPH SMITH.
The church (LDS) was restored April 6, 1830 by Joseph Smith (Doc. &
Cov., 20:1).
Jesus Christ said, "I will build my church and the gates of hell
shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). "for other foundation
can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ" (1 Cor.
3:11). "...And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and
prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone" (Eph.
2:20).
6. MORMONISM TEACHES ANOTHER (PERVERTED) GOSPEL THAN THAT OF THE
BIBLE.
The gospel to Mormonism is: "Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Receiving
the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands, Morality, Loyalty, Tithing,
Word of Wisdom, Duty Celestial Marriage (for eternity)" (LDS chart of
FREE AGENCY and Articles of Faith, No. 4).
The Bible says, "Moreover brethren, I declare unto you the gospel
that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to
the scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:1, 3-4). "if any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Gal.
1:9).
7. MORMONISM TEACHES SALVATION FOR THE DEAD BY PROXY WATER BAPTISM
This doctrine is based on one misunderstood Scripture: "Else what
shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at
all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?" (1 Cor. 15:29).
Paul did not practice baptism for the dead. He excluded himself by
using the pronoun "they" rather than "we" or "ye". He is asking a
question rather than making a statement. "It is appointed unto man
once to die, but after this the judgment" (Heb. 9:27).
8. MORMONISM TEACHES GENEALOGICAL RESEARCH FOR THE DEAD
"Let us, therefore, as a church and a people, and as Latter-day
Saints, offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness; and let us
present in his holy temple, when it is finished, a book containing the
records of our dead, which shall be worth of all acceptation" (Doc. &
Cov., Sec. 128:24).
The Bible says, "Neither give heed to fables and endless
genealogies" (1 Tim. 1:4). "but avoid foolish question and
genealogies..." (Titus 3:9).
9. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT THERE ARE MODERN DAY PROPHETS AND MODERN
DAY REVELATIONS FROM GOD.
Mormonism claims that Joseph Smith received the Aaronic Priesthood
from John the Baptist. The Melchizedek Priesthood and Apostleship was
restored by Peter, James and John shortly afterwards in 1829 (Doc. &
Cov., Sec. 13).
The Bible says, "God...hath in these last days spoken unto us by
his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he
made the worlds" (Heb. 1:1-2). The test of a prophet is given in
Deut. 18:20-22.
10. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT SALVATION DEPENDS UPON GOOD WORKS AND
ACCEPTANCE OF JOSEPH SMITH.
"No man who rejects the testimony of Joseph Smith can enter the
kingdom of God" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1 pg. 190). "Men have
work to do it they would obtain salvation" (Doctrines of Salvation.
vol. 3, pg 91).
The Bible teaches that salvation is provided by Jesus Christ alone,
"for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we
must be saved" (Acts 4:10-12). "For by grace are ye saved through
faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. Not of
works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).
Raymond
>
> JP <perettij_pasd...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> news:xKg89.18306$cH2.1...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> > > "Aaron Kim" wrote:
> > > >There is no true church except that which is led by the Melchizedek
> > > >Priesthood.
> > >
> > > + Who sez so? And, what is their source?
> >
> > Exactly....
> >
> > Hebrews 6:20
> > where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has
become
> a
> > high priest FOREVER, in the order of Melchizedek.
> >
> > There is none other than Jesus.... HE is our only redeemer.... He is
> Himself
> > our Salvation... It is not through membership in any denomination...
Amen?
> >
> > JP
> "All men are liars who say they are of the true Church without the
> revelations of Jesus Christ and the Priesthood of Melchizedek, which is
> after the order of the Son of God."
> Joseph Smith; TPJS p. 376
>
Thank you again for bring out that the "men" here "man" Joseph Smith is a
Liar! So all his words are lies also, thank you that is so clear, then most
of us knew that any way.
TEN REASONS WHY I CANNOT BE A MORMON
by Rev. John Hornok
Word was with God, andthe Word was God;...The Word was made flesh and
dwelt among us..." (John 1:1, 14). "Then Mary said unto the angel,
How shall this be, seeing that I know not a man? And the angel
answered... The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee..."(Lk. 1:34-35).
5. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT THE TRUE CHURCH CEASED TO EXIST UNTIL IT
WAS RESTORED TO JOSEPH SMITH.
The church (LDS) was restored April 6, 1830 by Joseph Smith (Doc. &
Cov., 20:1).
Jesus Christ said, "I will build my church and the gates of hell
shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). "for other foundation
can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ" (1 Cor.
3:11). "...And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and
prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone" (Eph.
2:20).
6. MORMONISM TEACHES ANOTHER (PERVERTED) GOSPEL THAN THAT OF THE
BIBLE.
The gospel to Mormonism is: "Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Receiving
the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands, Morality, Loyalty, Tithing,
Word of Wisdom, Duty Celestial Marriage (for eternity)" (LDS chart of
FREE AGENCY and Articles of Faith, No. 4).
The Bible says, "Moreover brethren, I declare unto you the gospel
that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to
the scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:1, 3-4). "if any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Gal.
1:9).
7. MORMONISM TEACHES SALVATION FOR THE THE DEAD BY PROXY WATER BAPTISM
You need to find Jesus Christ as LORD of you Life and leave Satan, and
Mormons alone.
Robert Bassett
> TEN REASONS WHY SHOULD NOT BE A MORMON!
>
> 1. MORMONISM DOES NOT TEACH THAT THE BIBLE IS THE INFALLIBLE WORK
> OF GOD.
>
> "We believe the Bible to the Word of God as far as it is
> translated correctly; we also believe the book of Mormon to be the
> word of God" (Articles of Faith, No. 8).
>
> As Christians we believe the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New
> Testaments to the verbally inspired Word of God, the final
> authority for faith and life, inerrant in the original writings,
> infallible and God-breathed (2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:20-21; Matt
> 5:18).
ok which translation of the bible do you use? KJV or maybe the version used by
the JW now if you don't believe in the version used by the JW's then you too
think it must be translated correctly.
acts 9:7 and acts 22:9 both speak of Paul on the road to Damascus but the
accounts differ somewhat. Did they hear the voice or not?
Matt 27:37, Mark 15:26 Luke 23:38 John 19:19. what exactly was written over the
head of Christ as he hung on the cross
1 Chron 29:29 if we find the book of Nathan the Prophet or Gad the Seer buried
in some ancient rune are you going to add them to your bible?
>
>
> 2. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT GOD IS AN EXALTED MAN AND HAS A PHYSICAL
> BODY.
>
> "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man"
> (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345). "The Father has a
> body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's..." (Doc. & Cov., Sec.
> 131:22)
>
> The Bible says, "God is not a man..." (Num. 23:19). "God is a
> Spirit; and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in
> truth" (John 4:24). "A spirit hath not flesh and bones..." (Lk.
> 24:39).
God is not a man that he should lie neither the son of man that he should
repent.... Num 23:19 hmm only means what you say when you don't put the whole
passage in context..I think the passage means God is not a man and therefore
doesn't lie and doesn't need to repent..Of course it says he repented of making
man but could that be a ...miss translation
Of course Christ was telling them he was not a spirit and to touch the flesh and
bone on his body...Did Christ die again and lose his body?
>
>
> 3. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT CHRIST AND THE DEVIL ARE BROTHERS.
>
> "...that Lucifer, the son of morning, is our elder brother and the
> brother of Jesus Christ" (Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, pp.
> 163-4).
>
> The Bible says that the devil is a created being, created by God.
> "thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
> till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezekiel 28:15). "For by Him
> (Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in
> earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, of dominions,
> or principalities, or powers; all things were created by Him and for
> Him..." (Col. 1:15-17).
Pretty much agree the devil is a created being just as we are a created being as
that we are sons and daughters of God Christ being the first born.
>
>
> 4. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT JESUS WAS MARRIED AND THE HE IS POLYGAMOUS.
>
> "We say it was Jesus Christ who was married at Cana of Galilee"
> (Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 80). Mormonism teaches that Jesus
> was the natural child of Adam and Mary. "When the Virgin Mary
> conceived the Child Jesus....He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.
> And who is his Father? He is the first of the human family" (Brigham
> Young, Journal of Discourses, pp. 50-51).
>
> The Bible says, " In the beginning was the Word (Christ), and the
> Word was with God, and the Word was God;...The Word was made flesh and
> dwelt among us..." (John 1:1, 14). "Then Mary said unto the angel,
> How shall this be, seeing that I know not a man? And the angel
> answered... The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee..."(Lk. 1:34-35).
>
Again you leave off a part and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the
Son of God. We believe God the Father Christ and the Holy Ghost are three
separate beings. You know Christ in the water being Baptized Voice in heaven
and Holy Ghost coming down as a dove.
Yes just like Christ was baptized to forfill all righteousness he was probably
married also.
>
> 5. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT THE TRUE CHURCH CEASED TO EXIST UNTIL IT
> WAS RESTORED TO JOSEPH SMITH.
>
> The church (LDS) was restored April 6, 1830 by Joseph Smith (Doc. &
> Cov., 20:1).
>
> Jesus Christ said, "I will build my church and the gates of hell
> shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). "for other foundation
> can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ" (1 Cor.
> 3:11). "...And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and
> prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone" (Eph.
> 2:20).
>
Of course does your church have this foundation still? which church do you
belong to? That Catholics use this scripture to show that the have a continues
church from Peter. Martin Luther and Calvin all felt the Catholic church had
strayed..Protestants reformist. Now I believe the rock Christ was referring to
was the Rock of Revelation.....going being an unchanging God and all Amos 3:7
>
> 6. MORMONISM TEACHES ANOTHER (PERVERTED) GOSPEL THAN THAT OF THE
> BIBLE.
>
> The gospel to Mormonism is: "Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Receiving
> the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands, Morality, Loyalty, Tithing,
> Word of Wisdom, Duty Celestial Marriage (for eternity)" (LDS chart of
> FREE AGENCY and Articles of Faith, No. 4).
>
> The Bible says, "Moreover brethren, I declare unto you the gospel
> that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to
> the scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:1, 3-4). "if any man preach any other
> gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Gal.
> 1:9).
>
your opinion which don't you agree with morality loyalty tithing?????
>
> 7. MORMONISM TEACHES SALVATION FOR THE DEAD BY PROXY WATER BAPTISM
>
> This doctrine is based on one misunderstood Scripture: "Else what
> shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at
> all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?" (1 Cor. 15:29).
>
> Paul did not practice baptism for the dead. He excluded himself by
> using the pronoun "they" rather than "we" or "ye". He is asking a
> question rather than making a statement. "It is appointed unto man
> once to die, but after this the judgment" (Heb. 9:27).
In your opinion what happens to those who are born in China or Africa who never
hear of Christ and die being just and upright men John 3:5 Then again you have
1 Peter 4:6 and 1 Peter 3:18-19....
>
>
> 8. MORMONISM TEACHES GENEALOGICAL RESEARCH FOR THE DEAD
>
> "Let us, therefore, as a church and a people, and as Latter-day
> Saints, offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness; and let us
> present in his holy temple, when it is finished, a book containing the
> records of our dead, which shall be worth of all acceptation" (Doc. &
> Cov., Sec. 128:24).
>
> The Bible says, "Neither give heed to fables and endless
> genealogies" (1 Tim. 1:4). "but avoid foolish question and
> genealogies..." (Titus 3:9).
Hmm seems like the Bible spends a great deal of time on genealogies must not be
important though maybe it was mistranslated
>
>
> 9. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT THERE ARE MODERN DAY PROPHETS AND MODERN
> DAY REVELATIONS FROM GOD.
>
> Mormonism claims that Joseph Smith received the Aaronic Priesthood
> from John the Baptist. The Melchizedek Priesthood and Apostleship was
> restored by Peter, James and John shortly afterwards in 1829 (Doc. &
> Cov., Sec. 13).
>
> The Bible says, "God...hath in these last days spoken unto us by
> his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he
> made the worlds" (Heb. 1:1-2). The test of a prophet is given in
> Deut. 18:20-22.
>
So there are no Prophets mentioned in the bible after Christ? no prophecy?
Amos 3:7 Is your God a changing God? Maybe the people lack faith to not see
angels and have the gift of tongues or the Gift of Prophecy?
>
> 10. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT SALVATION DEPENDS UPON GOOD WORKS AND
> ACCEPTANCE OF JOSEPH SMITH.
>
> "No man who rejects the testimony of Joseph Smith can enter the
> kingdom of God" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1 pg. 190). "Men have
> work to do it they would obtain salvation" (Doctrines of Salvation.
> vol. 3, pg 91).
>
> The Bible teaches that salvation is provided by Jesus Christ alone,
> "for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we
> must be saved" (Acts 4:10-12). "For by grace are ye saved through
> faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. Not of
> works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).
What doth it profit , my brethren, though a man say he hath faith and have not
works can faith save him?
James 2:14
Even so faith without works is dead
yea a man may say, thou hast faith and I have works, shew me thy faith without
thy works and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thous believest that there is one God thou doest well; the deveils also believe
and tremble.
James 2:17-19
we are not as far apart as you think on the faith works thing. You cannot
work you way into heaven because even if you commit only one sin then you are
unclean and it takes the atonement to make you clean (faith)
We think of the words of Joseph Smith and the living Prophet today to be equal
to the words of Moses or Isaiah can you reject their words and yet still follow
the words of Christ? No their words are one and the same.
Raymond
"Robert Bassett" <rbas...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:3D671AB7...@citlink.net...
> >
> > TEN REASONS WHY SHOULD NOT BE A MORMON!
> >
> > 1. MORMONISM DOES NOT TEACH THAT THE BIBLE IS THE INFALLIBLE WORK
> > OF GOD.
> >
> > "We believe the Bible to the Word of God as far as it is
> > translated correctly; we also believe the book of Mormon to be the
> > word of God" (Articles of Faith, No. 8).
> >
> > As Christians we believe the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New
> > Testaments to the verbally inspired Word of God, the final
> > authority for faith and life, inerrant in the original writings,
> > infallible and God-breathed (2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:20-21; Matt
> > 5:18).
>
> ok which translation of the bible do you use? KJV or maybe the version
used by
> the JW now if you don't believe in the version used by the JW's then you
too
> think it must be translated correctly.
Use what ever version you like, then the JW cult bible is only theirs done
by them, and of no value in debate.
> acts 9:7 and acts 22:9 both speak of Paul on the road to Damascus but the
> accounts differ somewhat. Did they hear the voice or not?
They heard but did not understand, if you read your bible, you would of
known that, Paul understood, they only heard what sounded like a noise,
unless Jesus was also speaking in tongues then no other man but God would of
understood.
> Matt 27:37, Mark 15:26 Luke 23:38 John 19:19. what exactly was written
over the
> head of Christ as he hung on the cross
Does it matter, you don't read Hebrew to start with or was it also in Roman,
as well as Greek, take your pick. It is of no importance since it was done
by the Romans.
> 1 Chron 29:29 if we find the book of Nathan the Prophet or Gad the Seer
buried
> in some ancient rune are you going to add them to your bible?
Add what? You said you found it in the Bible so what Bible is there to add
it to? Did you gave your coffee today?
>
> >
> >
> > 2. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT GOD IS AN EXALTED MAN AND HAS A PHYSICAL
> > BODY.
> >
> > "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man"
> > (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345). "The Father has a
> > body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's..." (Doc. & Cov., Sec.
> > 131:22)
> >
> > The Bible says, "God is not a man..." (Num. 23:19). "God is a
> > Spirit; and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in
> > truth" (John 4:24). "A spirit hath not flesh and bones..." (Lk.
> > 24:39).
>
> God is not a man that he should lie neither the son of man that he should
> repent.... Num 23:19 hmm only means what you say when you don't put the
whole
Back in the time that was written, it would be true, then Jesus came, and
today God is also a man, and still doesn't lie.
as for as the passage is, you have the verse and location, just read it,
what do you want me to put the whole chapter written out here, go to it and
see what it does say, and stop your foolishness.
> passage in context..I think the passage means God is not a man and
therefore
> doesn't lie and doesn't need to repent..Of course it says he repented of
making
> man but could that be a ...miss translation
Oh, so you know all about translations, and have a degree in such, and are a
top of the line bible scholar? If not, and I am sure your not, I would take
it as it said, and not mess with this "miss translation" just to fit your
idea. You could be the only one with a miss translation, in this matter.
> Of course Christ was telling them he was not a spirit and to touch the
flesh and
> bone on his body...Did Christ die again and lose his body?
Why would you ask such, since they said if you would of read the context,
they were thinking he was a spirit, since he came in by a locked door, must
of passed right though it. He then showed them in reply to their statement
he was not just spirit but also flesh and bone. Which the JW do not
believe, and who cares what the LDS does with it.
> > 3. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT CHRIST AND THE DEVIL ARE BROTHERS.
> >
> > "...that Lucifer, the son of morning, is our elder brother and the
> > brother of Jesus Christ" (Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, pp.
> > 163-4).
> >
> > The Bible says that the devil is a created being, created by God.
> > "thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
> > till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezekiel 28:15). "For by Him
> > (Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in
> > earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, of dominions,
> > or principalities, or powers; all things were created by Him and for
> > Him..." (Col. 1:15-17).
>
> Pretty much agree the devil is a created being just as we are a created
being as
> that we are sons and daughters of God Christ being the first born.
Do you have any idea what you are replying to? The devil is a angel and
you no where near that. We and them are no way the same. We are not the
sons and daughters of God, we are the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve,
which were the first made. The devil is not a first born, and is not our
brother or sister, or anything, he was, he is and always will be a Angel
that want bad, and is now the father of liars, and would love to kill any
first born, or born again being.
> >
> > 4. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT JESUS WAS MARRIED AND THE HE IS POLYGAMOUS.
> >
> > "We say it was Jesus Christ who was married at Cana of Galilee"
> > (Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 80). Mormonism teaches that Jesus
> > was the natural child of Adam and Mary. "When the Virgin Mary
> > conceived the Child Jesus....He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.
> > And who is his Father? He is the first of the human family" (Brigham
> > Young, Journal of Discourses, pp. 50-51).
> >
> > The Bible says, " In the beginning was the Word (Christ), and the
> > Word was with God, and the Word was God;...The Word was made flesh and
> > dwelt among us..." (John 1:1, 14). "Then Mary said unto the angel,
> > How shall this be, seeing that I know not a man? And the angel
> > answered... The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee..."(Lk. 1:34-35).
> >
>
> Again you leave off a part and the power of the Highest shall overshadow
thee
> therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called
the
> Son of God. We believe God the Father Christ and the Holy Ghost are
three
> separate beings. You know Christ in the water being Baptized Voice in
heaven
> and Holy Ghost coming down as a dove.
I don't leave off anything the reference is there, and anyone that knows the
bible, would know by the first few words the rest of the verse, and if they
did not, they could look it up. Is that all you can do, why not get into
the teaching of the Mormons and tell us about how these verses do not apply,
then get Nicky picky over nothing. As you and the Mormons believing in
three separate beings, make you a cult. I don't see any three separate
beings in a voice from heaven and the Holy Ghost sure is not a bird.
Christ on earth, and so one, show us God is omnipresent, here, in heaven, in
all places at the same moment as one writer put, it on the highest mountain
or the deepest part of the sea, God is there.
> Yes just like Christ was baptized to forfill all righteousness he was
probably
> married also.
You are a sicko. No wonder you follow Smith and his many wife cult. I
don't see any need to go on, with such stupidity as this you just wrote.
[snip]
Aaron Kim
Melchizedek Priesthood and the revelations of Jesus Christ are liars. I
don't understand how you could twist his words so badly. That kind of shows
the extent of your credibility which doesn't sound too high too begin with.
> TEN REASONS WHY SHOULD NOT BE A MORMON!
>
> 1. MORMONISM DOES NOT TEACH THAT THE BIBLE IS THE INFALLIBLE WORK
> OF GOD.
>
> "We believe the Bible to the Word of God as far as it is
> translated correctly; we also believe the book of Mormon to be the
> word of God" (Articles of Faith, No. 8).
>
> As Christians we believe the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New
> Testaments to the verbally inspired Word of God, the final
> authority for faith and life, inerrant in the original writings,
> infallible and God-breathed (2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:20-21; Matt
> 5:18).
Why is it so hard for you and other self professed Christians to accept that
there could be other scriptures other than what is in the Bible?
(Old Testament | 1 Chronicles 29:29)
29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written
in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and
in the book of Gad the seer,
If you saw the last two books mentioned would you consider them legitimate
scriptures?
(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 29:3,6-14)
3 And because my words shall hiss forth-many of the Gentiles shall say: A
Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no
more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I,
the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are
upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the
earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even
upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know
ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am
God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the
same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations
shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday,
today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own
pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that
I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be
until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it
contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more
to be written.
11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the
north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall
write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be
written I will judge the world, every man according to their works,
according to that which is written.
12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I
shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also
speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away,
and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the
earth and they shall write it.
14 And it shall come to pass that my people, which are of the house of
Israel, shall be gathered home unto the lands of their possessions; and my
word also shall be gathered in one. And I will show unto them that fight
against my word and against my people, who are of the house of Israel, that
I am God, and that I covenanted with Abraham that I would remember his seed
forever.
(Old Testament | Ezekiel 37:16 - 19)
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For
Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another
stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the
house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one
in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt
thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of
Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his
fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make
them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
> 2. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT GOD IS AN EXALTED MAN AND HAS A PHYSICAL
> BODY.
>
> "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man"
> (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345). "The Father has a
> body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's..." (Doc. & Cov., Sec.
> 131:22)
>
> The Bible says, "God is not a man..." (Num. 23:19). "God is a
> Spirit; and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in
> truth" (John 4:24). "A spirit hath not flesh and bones..." (Lk.
> 24:39).
>Ezekiel 1, Luke 24, JS John 4:24
You completely took Num.23:19 out of context as someone else who responded
to this post wrote.
The complete verse which you so convienently abbreviated says: "God is not
a man,
that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he
said, and shall he
not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"
This verse means that God is not like a mortal man whose heart Jesus said is
filled with all manners of evil .What God is, is an exalted
man. It seems like you have a habit of twisting scriptures to fit your
false interpretation of the Gospel..
I think this verse describes a lot of the way you and others who deny this
true Gospel rationalize scriptures.
(New Testament | Matthew 23:24)
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Here are scriptures describing God as a man.
(Old Testament | Exodus 15:3)
3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
(Old Testament | Exodus 33:11)
11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his
friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son
of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
If God isn't Adam, why does Jesus call Himself the Son of Man? Did you know
the Hebrew word for "man" is Adam? I've received direct revelation from God
that Adam begat Jesus' body when he visited Mary. Why is Jesus called the
Only Begotten? Jesus Christ in the pre-existence spirit world was the first
born of all spirit children but of all the spirit children born, only He who
was chosen before the foundation of the world to sacrifice Himself for the
sins of the world, was begatted physically by the Father Himself.
"September 4, 1860: Brother Cannon said there was a learned doctor that
wanted to be baptized; he believed
in this work but wanted to close up his business in New York City first.
Said when he was baptized that he
should lay aside his practice of medicine, as he believed the Lord had
provided means for the healing of his
Saints without the practice of medicine. He is satisfied that the doctrine
of the plurality of God and that Adam
is our Father is a true doctrine revealed from God to Joseph and Brigham;
for this same doctrine (Adam is
God) is taught in some of the old Jewish records which have never been in
print and I know Joseph Smith nor
Brigham Young have had access to, and the Lord has revealed this doctrine
unto them, or they could not have
taught it. President Young said if all that God had revealed was in fine
print, it would more than fill this room,
but very little is written or printed which the Lord has revealed."
(Revelations of Jesus Christ, Vol. 2, Section 33)
(New Testament | Luke 24:39 - 43)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see;
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto
them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
(New Testament | John 14:8 - 9)
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and
how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 5:26
5 As the Father hath life in himself, even so hath he given to the Son to
have life in himself.
(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:16 - 17)
16 ....Just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly
over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually
until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which
held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose
brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air.
One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the
other-This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 7:35)
35 Behold, I am God; Man of Holiness is my name; Man of Counsel is my name;
and Endless and Eternal is my name, also.
Revelations of Jesus Christ, Section 53, Vision of the Pre-Existence, Given
To Mosiah Hancock, (around 1855)
3 It takes the power of the Holy Ghost to tell the difference between the
Father and the Son, they look so much alike.
Now, I've described from the mouths of at least 2 or 3 witnesses that God is
a Man. According to the law of witnesses:
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that
in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
(New Testament | Matthew 18:16)
> 3. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT CHRIST AND THE DEVIL ARE BROTHERS.
>
> "...that Lucifer, the son of morning, is our elder brother and the
> brother of Jesus Christ" (Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, pp.
> 163-4).
>
> The Bible says that the devil is a created being, created by God.
>"thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
> till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezekiel 28:15). "For by Him
> (Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in
> earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, of dominions,
> or principalities, or powers; all things were created by Him and for
> Him..." (Col. 1:15-17).
(Old Testament | Isaiah 14:12)
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art
thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
So why is Lucifer called a son? Because he was one of the firstborn spirit
children of the "Father of spirits",
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we
gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the
Father of spirits, and live?
(New Testament | Hebrews 12:9)
Adam is the Father of all spirits.
> 4. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT JESUS WAS MARRIED AND THE HE IS POLYGAMOUS.
> "We say it was Jesus Christ who was married at Cana of Galilee"
> (Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 80). Mormonism teaches that Jesus
> was the natural child of Adam and Mary. "When the Virgin Mary
> conceived the Child Jesus....He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.
> And who is his Father? He is the first of the human family" (Brigham
> Young, Journal of Discourses, pp. 50-51).
This is about Jesus' own marriage.
1 AND the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother
of Jesus was there:
2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have
no wine.
4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is
not yet come.
5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the
purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled
them up to the brim.
8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the
feast. And they bare it.
9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and
knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the
governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine;
and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept
the good wine until now.
(New Testament | John 2:1 - 10)
" What does old Celsus say, who was a physician in the first century, whose
medical works are esteemed very highly at the present time. His works on
theology were burned with fire by the Catholics, they were so shocked at
what they called their impiety. Celsus was a heathen philosopher; and what
does he say upon the subject of Christ and his Apostles, and their belief?
He says, "The grand reason why the Gentiles and philosophers of his school
persecuted Jesus Christ, was, because he had so many wives; there were
Elizabeth, and Mary, and a host of others that followed him." After Jesus
went from the stage of action, the Apostles followed the example of their
master. For instance, John the beloved disciple, writes in his second
Epistle, "Unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth."
Again, he says, "Having many thing to write unto you (or communicate), I
would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak
face to face, that our joy may be full." Again--"The children of thy elect
sister greet thee." This ancient philosopher says they were both John's
wives." Journal of Discourses, Vol.1, Pg.345 - Pg.346, Jedediah M. Grant,
August 7, 1853
Some of the early Bibles are quoted here showing the original translations
(Psalms 45 , The Geneva Bible, London edition, 1599 AD) :
8 All thy garments smell of myrre and aloes, and cassia, when thou commeth
out of the yuory palaces where they have made thee glad.
9 Kings daughters were among thine honorable wives: upon thy right hand did
stand the Queen in a vesture of gold of Ophir.
10 Hearken, O daughters, and consider, and encline thine ears: forget also
thine own people and thy fathers home
11 So shall the King have pleasure in thy beautie: for he is thy Lord, and
reverence thou him.
(Old Testament | Psalms 45:8 - 11/King James Version)
8 All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory
palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.
9 Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did
stand the queen in gold of Ophir.
10 Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also
thine own people, and thy father's house;
11 So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and
worship thou him.
King James' translators were not willing that this passage <above> should
have a literal translation, according to the former English rendering, lest
it should give countenance to polygamy; therefore, they altered the
translation to honorable women instead of wives; but any person acquainted
with the original can see that the first translators have given the true
rendering of that passage. (Orson Pratt, The Seer, pg.160)
" It is only logical that Jesus and His Apostles would honor all the laws of
marriage in order to set the proper example for their followers. The Church
of Christ required its officers, such as eldrers, bishops and even deacons,
to marry. (See 1 Timothy 3:1-4,12) Peter was married (See Matthew 8:14);
Paul, who was a member of the Sanhedrin, had to be married to vote on the
decisions of that body (See Acts 7:58-60; Acts 8:1); all of the Apostles
honored Abraham in his marriages.
Modern Christian ministers are embarrassed at the thought of Jesus being
married, as though it were some sort of moral sin. However, if marriage has
any element of sinfulness, where is it mentioned in the scriptures? Jesus
never forbid nor condemned nor failed to sanction any of the principles and
laws pertaining to this everlasting covenant of marriage--especially in the
lives of Abraham, Jacob, and a host of other prophets who had lived plural
marriage. Neither did He criticize any of the laws pertaning to marriage or
plural marriage as established by Moses." Ogden Kraut
> The Bible says, " In the beginning was the Word (Christ), and the
> Word was with God, and the Word was God;...The Word was made flesh and
> dwelt among us..." (John 1:1, 14). "Then Mary said unto the angel,
> How shall this be, seeing that I know not a man? And the angel
> answered... The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee..."(Lk. 1:34-35).
Psalms 45
>
> 5. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT THE TRUE CHURCH CEASED TO EXIST UNTIL IT
> WAS RESTORED TO JOSEPH SMITH.
>
> The church (LDS) was restored April 6, 1830 by Joseph Smith (Doc. &
> Cov., 20:1).
>
> Jesus Christ said, "I will build my church and the gates of hell
> shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). "for other foundation
> can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ" (1 Cor.
> 3:11). "...And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and
> prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone" (Eph.
> 2:20).
The truc church ceased to exist aflter the 12 Apostles were killed. When the
12 Apostles would travel abroad, they would baptize and ordain Bishops to
preach locally while they would continue to travel. Paul ordained the first
bishop of Rome. Most of the New Testament in the Bible consists of letters
written by Paul to these bishops and standing ministers. This general
authority ordain legal standing ministers was not passed on before their
deaths If your church has a bishop and he has not been baptized by an
Apostle, then he is a false and has no authority from God. The Pope of the
Catholic Church has no authority from God because he was never baptized and
ordained by an Apostle. After the 12 Apostles were killed, false churches
were set up and the period of Europe known as the Dark Ages
followed. However in 1829 the authority to ordain bishops and legal
administrators was restored by the laying on of hands by translated Peter,
James, and John on Joseph Smith All other churches.that do not belong under
this authority are part of Babylon the Great.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a
woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having
seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with
gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of
abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE
MOTHER OF HARLOTS (The Mother Harlot: Catholic Church; Harlots: Baptist,
Methodist, Presbyterian, Protestant) AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the
blood of the martyrs of Jesus(ex: Joseph Smith) : and when I saw her, I
wondered with great admiration.
(New Testament | Revelation 17:3 - 6)
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the
commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having
no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by
the blood of Christ.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but
fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus
Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
(New Testament | Ephesians 2:12-13,18 - 20)
> 6. MORMONISM TEACHES ANOTHER (PERVERTED) GOSPEL THAN THAT OF THE
> BIBLE.
>
> The gospel to Mormonism is: "Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Receiving
> the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands, Morality, Loyalty, Tithing,
> Word of Wisdom, Duty Celestial Marriage (for eternity)" (LDS chart of
> FREE AGENCY and Articles of Faith, No. 4).
>
> The Bible says, "Moreover brethren, I declare unto you the gospel
> that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to
> the scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:1, 3-4). "if any man preach any other
> gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Gal.
> 1:9).
> 7. MORMONISM TEACHES SALVATION FOR THE DEAD BY PROXY WATER BAPTISM
>
> This doctrine is based on one misunderstood Scripture: "Else what
> shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at
> all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?" (1 Cor. 15:29).
(New Testament | 1 Peter 3:18 - 19)
> Paul did not practice baptism for the dead. He excluded himself by
> using the pronoun "they" rather than "we" or "ye". He is asking a
> question rather than making a statement. "It is appointed unto man
> once to die, but after this the judgment" (Heb. 9:27).
No, he's not. That's a rhetorical question he's asking. He is supporting
baptism for the dead in that verse.
5 And again, I give unto you a word in relation to the baptism for your
dead.
6 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you concerning your dead: When any of
you are baptized for your dead, let there be a recorder, and let him be
eye-witness of your baptisms; let him hear with his ears, that he may
testify of a truth, saith the Lord;
7 That in all your recordings it may be recorded in heaven; whatsoever you
bind on earth, may be bound in heaven; whatsoever you loose on earth, may be
loosed in heaven;
(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 127:5 - 7)
> 8. MORMONISM TEACHES GENEALOGICAL RESEARCH FOR THE DEAD
>
> "Let us, therefore, as a church and a people, and as Latter-day
> Saints, offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness; and let us
> present in his holy temple, when it is finished, a book containing the
> records of our dead, which shall be worth of all acceptation" (Doc. &
> Cov., Sec. 128:24).
>
> The Bible says, "Neither give heed to fables and endless
> genealogies" (1 Tim. 1:4). "but avoid foolish question and
> genealogies..." (Titus 3:9).
>
> 9. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT THERE ARE MODERN DAY PROPHETS AND MODERN
> DAY REVELATIONS FROM GOD.
>
> Mormonism claims that Joseph Smith received the Aaronic Priesthood
> from John the Baptist. The Melchizedek Priesthood and Apostleship was
> restored by Peter, James and John shortly afterwards in 1829 (Doc. &
> Cov., Sec. 13).
>
> The Bible says, "God...hath in these last days spoken unto us by
> his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he
> made the worlds" (Heb. 1:1-2). The test of a prophet is given in
> Deut. 18:20-22.
Revelation to Pastor James Miller, a Baptist Minister
Received Sunday, May 30, 1999, Pancho's Place, B.C. Mexico
Thus saith the Lord unto my servant, as he is known among men, Jim Miller,
It is I, the Lord your God, even the Word that speaketh unto thee through
the medium of mine anointed, as in ancient days. For did I the Lord not
speak anciently unto my people through men whom I raised up that they should
write and speak my revelations, yea the revelations of my will unto them for
their welfare and in answer to their questions? Yea why is it that ye
subscribe to the doctrine that revelation is ceased, or that I the Lord am
changeable, that my word is bound that I cannot speak more unto the children
of men, who are tossed to and fro, as anciently, led about by every wind of
doctrine as anciently? Why is it that ye think that I am a respecter of
persons, in that I the Lord thy God should speak unto one generation but
regard not another? Yea, they all are my children, and I the Lord have
covenanted that from the foundation of the world, that all must be saved
upon the same principles, for my laws and my gospel are everlasting, for I
am the Everlasting, and I change not according to the vagaries and fashions
of the generations of men upon the earth. Yea I the Lord will not break
the Oath and Covenant of the Ancients, even Enoch and Melchizedec and Elijah
who were translated along with the people of Salem and Zion, that they
should not see death, for I the Lord had translated them. For they shall
return in this the latter day to meet them who are assembled as before,
according to my Holy Order as in the beginning, that we shall meet them and
they shall fall upon our necks and we shall fall upon theirs, that the
Father's Kingdom and the Father's will be done once more on earth as it is
in heaven. For is it not written that I am the Lord of the living and not
the dead? For they are alive, and were with me from before the flood as if
I had worked out mine atonement in the flesh in their day, and the covenant
which I made, I the Lord thy God made it for time and for all eternity, yet
I renew it from time to time because of apostasy and unbelief and rebellion
among the children of men. Thus it is termed the New and Everlasting
Covenant, even with Israel. And the words which I spoke unto Enoch, are
they not written in the Book of Enoch? For the language which I gave unto
Enoch was powerful that he did command that the river turned out of its
course to overcome the rebellious who had gathered against my people.
Therefore counsel not the Lord thy God according to the narrowness of thy
beliefs and views which are not my views, saith the Lord. For my thoughts
are not your thoughts and my ways are not your ways, for my thoughts and my
ways are above thy thoughts and ways as the heavens are above the earth, and
I reveal these unto my servants the prophets and seers of Jacob and none
else, as anciently. For which of the Greeks wrote my gospel, or through
which of the gentiles have I spoken? Therefore the gentile branches who
were grafted into the root of the tame olive tree imagine that I the Lord
have ceased, because I condescend not to speak unto them. For did I not say
that I am not sent but unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel my chosen?
Yea therefore this does not mean that I the Lord shall cease to speak unto
Israel, for I have a work required of them, and my work and my word unto
them and unto all men through them is not yet finished..This covenant has
not been abrogated nor done away with one jot or one tittle, for did I not
say through my servant Paul, a Jew, that I would send in the latter days the
Deliverer unto Zion? And not one jot or one tittle shall be removed from
the Prophets, til all be fulfilled. And it is that the Sons of Levi shall
yet offer an offering of righteousness as before in Jerusalem. Therefore
boast ye not against the natural branches, for if I spared not the natural
branches, why think ye that I would spare the the gentiles, known as
Christians, even the gentiles, who were grafted into the root of the tame
Olive tree? And it must be that the Deliverer prophesied must be of that
holy lineage, even of David, the Root of Jesse, that ye know not of, for he
has remained and continued unto me a Root thrust out upon dry ground, even
of an Holy Priesthood, undefiled and pure unto me, yet it must needs be that
my servants are thrust out from the society of men as anciently. For it
must be that offenses come, saith the Lord, but Wo! unto those by whom they
come. And it is that I the Lord God am revealed only through the ordinances
of the Priesthood which is without beginning of days or end of years. And
all who will not enter into my presence as anciently, by the gate, as Jesus
at the River Jordan with John, but climb up some other way, are cast out as
thieves and robbers. For it is that baptisms are done by my authority, or it
is of no effect. For shall I receive that which I did not send, O man? Yea,
no man taketh this honor unto himself except he is called and ordained as
Aaron or John, even the Baptist. For he was a Priest, also, after the Order
of Aaron. Even so, I am the Lord thy God and have spoken it and so it shall
come to pass. Therefore deny not the Holy Ghost, for it taketh the things
of God and showeth it unto the children of men as anciently, and is the
Testator of the Father and his sons, yea the Sons of God. For it is that if
ye deny my Spirit, after the narrowness of thy thoughts, ye have denied the
gifts thereof, which are given for the salvation of my children who are as
precious unto me as anciently, and they are tempest tossed as anciently. And
the denial of these things is unpardonable, as is also blasphemy against the
Holy Ghost. For there must need be a second death, which is the death of
the spirit of man who commit these things, saith the Lord. For my word and
my work are not yet finished, neither shall they be until the end of the
earth. For it is my work and my glory to bring about the immortality and
eternal life of man. For the millenium or the thousand years of peace hath
not been ushered in, and ye are not prepared, saith the Lord. For I say
again, that I am the Lord of the living and not the dead, therefore my
oracles the Prophets are living also and they speak and work as anciently,
and are not bound, as the New was not bound by the Old in the days of my
servants, Peter, James, and John.
Yea, say also not that these things are too small, for out of small things
proceedeth forth that which is great. For the Kingdom of God is compared
unto a mustard seed which groweth and sprouteth up that the birds loft in
the branches thereof. Even so it is with the Kingdom of God, the keys of
which are held by my servant, as he is known among men, Art Bulla, but I the
Lord God have known him from the beginning, before he was formed in the womb
as Jeremiah, and have also sanctified him and ordained him also a prophet
unto the nations, like unto Jeremiah. Therefor come unto me and I will give
you rest, and partake with us of Eternal Life. Even so. Amen
> 10. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT SALVATION DEPENDS UPON GOOD WORKS AND
> ACCEPTANCE OF JOSEPH SMITH.
>
> "No man who rejects the testimony of Joseph Smith can enter the
> kingdom of God" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1 pg. 190). "Men have
> work to do it they would obtain salvation" (Doctrines of Salvation.
> vol. 3, pg 91).
> The Bible teaches that salvation is provided by Jesus Christ alone,
> "for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we
> must be saved" (Acts 4:10-12). "For by grace are ye saved through
> faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. Not of
> works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).
I think I've answered enough questions to help improve your understanding of
Mormonism
dckelvie
You posted:
Because your "new stuff" CONTRADICTS what God told us in the Bible,
and GOD DOES NOT LIE. Joe smith did, on the other hand, lie. Over
and over again!
>(Old Testament | 1 Chronicles 29:29)
>29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written
>in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and
>in the book of Gad the seer,
>If you saw the last two books mentioned would you consider them legitimate
>scriptures?
In modern day, your prophet might say, "It says in the New York Times
that. . ." does that make the New York times, Scripture?
Jesus quoted from the Septuagint version of the Old Testament of the
Bible consistantly, and quoted from every one of its books except
Ruth. HE didn't claim that anything was missing. Why should joe
smith, who didn't even KNOW the Bible very well think that those
writings were "scripture?" Jesus didn't claim to.
>
>(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 29:3,6-14)
>3 And because my words shall hiss forth-many of the Gentiles shall say: A
>Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible
>thou fool <snip>
joe smith was the fool. First off, no Bible was written when joe
smith pretended that this verse was written. Secondly no JEW would
have ever used the word, "Bible," since the word refers to the book
including the OLD Testament AND the NEW Testament.
joe smith lied, of course!
>(Old Testament | Ezekiel 37:16 - 19)
>16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For
>Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another
>stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the
>house of Israel his companions:
>17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one
>in thine hand.
>18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt
>thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
>19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of
>Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his
>fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make
>them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
THEN HE *DID* Join the two sticks together in his hand, and the tribes
of Joseph and Judah DID get together. . .WAY BACK THEN.
Of course the sticks WERE sticks and NOT scrolls. But joey smith
didn't kow that. He didn't know his Bible very well, you know.
Poor joe smith.
>
>> 2. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT GOD IS AN EXALTED MAN AND HAS A PHYSICAL
>> BODY.
>>
>> "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man"
>> (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345). "The Father has a
>> body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's..." (Doc. & Cov., Sec.
>> 131:22)
>>
>> The Bible says, "God is not a man..." (Num. 23:19). "God is a
>> Spirit; and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in
>> truth" (John 4:24). "A spirit hath not flesh and bones..." (Lk.
>> 24:39).
>>Ezekiel 1, Luke 24, JS John 4:24
>You completely took Num.23:19 out of context as someone else who responded
>to this post wrote.
> The complete verse which you so convienently abbreviated says: "God is not
>a man,
>that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he
>said, and shall he
>not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"
>This verse means that God is not like a mortal man whose heart Jesus said is
>filled with all manners of evil .What God is, is an exalted
>man. It seems like you have a habit of twisting scriptures to fit your
>false interpretation of the Gospel..
Let's try again, shall we?
Numbers 23: 19 "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of
man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has
He spoken, and will He not make it good?
It MEANS what it SAYS. GOD IS NOT A MAN that He should lie. He IS
NOT A MAN, so He doesn't have that characteristic.
GOD IS NOT A MAN. And THESE are His characteristics: He does ot lie.
He DOES what He says. He speaks and HE MAKES IT GOOD.
No, God IS NOT A MAN.
AND I NOTE THAT YOU IGNORED THE OTHER VERSE:
John 4:24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in
spirit and truth."
In the original language Greek it is literally GOD _IS_SPIRIT, He
CONSISTS OF Spirit.
Colossians 1:15 He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the
firstborn of all creation.
GOD IS INVISIBLE. What MAN do you know who is INVISIBLE?
WHAT PHYSICAL BODY IS INVISIBLE?
1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only
God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
Same as above.
>I think this verse describes a lot of the way you and others who deny this
>true Gospel rationalize scriptures.
>(New Testament | Matthew 23:24)
>24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Sorry, but we Christians usually CORRECT you when you misuse
scripture, tearing it out of its context. That is not being blind,
but is being honest.
Sorry about joe smith tho.
>
>Here are scriptures describing God as a man.
>(Old Testament | Exodus 15:3)
>3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
And a "man of war" is a metaphore, of course.
>
>(Old Testament | Exodus 33:11)
>11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his
>friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son
>of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
"face-to-face" = "Person to person."
That does NOT SAY that the Father HAS a face. Sorry bubby, but that
is NOT in the context.
Ruth 2:12 "May the LORD reward your work, and your wages be full from
the LORD, the God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to seek
refuge."
So do you believe GOD HAS WINGS?
John 10:7 So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I
am the door of the sheep.
8 "All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep
did not hear them.
9 "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and
will go in and out and find pasture.
Do you believe Jesus is made of WOODEN PLANKS?
John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and
every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more
fruit.
NOW you must believe Jesus is VEGETATION!
Hmmm. You don't know what metaphores are?
>If God isn't Adam, why does Jesus call Himself the Son of Man?
Since Mary IS of mankind, and Jesus TOOK ON THE FORM of man, it was
appropriate. It was also a Title, not a description.
>Did you know
>the Hebrew word for "man" is Adam?
Oh?
So, the Hebrew word for "man" is "Awdawm."
So what? Since God CREATED Adam, God IS NOT His own creation. You
don't have a CLUE!!!
> I've received direct revelation from God
>that Adam begat Jesus' body when he visited Mary.
Oh you have, have you? ROTFL! Do you talk to yourself often,
pretending to be your own god? Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
>Why is Jesus called the
>Only Begotten? Jesus Christ in the pre-existence spirit world was the first
>born of all spirit children but of all the spirit children born, only He who
>was chosen before the foundation of the world to sacrifice Himself for the
>sins of the world, was begatted physically by the Father Himself.
Then why does the Bible tell us:
Luke 1:34 And Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a
virgin?"
35 And the angel answered and said to her, "The HOLY SPIRIT will
come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you;
and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God.
The Holy Spirit, not Adam. You obviously cannot read the Bible. You
haven't a CLUE!!! ROTFL!!!
But sadly, you are a heretic.
Just like joe smith.
>
>"September 4, 1860: Brother Cannon said there was a learned doctor that
>wanted to be baptized; he believed
>in this work but wanted to close up his business in New York City first.
>Said when he was baptized that he
>should lay aside his practice of medicine, as he believed the Lord had
>provided means for the healing of his
>Saints without the practice of medicine. He is satisfied that the doctrine
>of the plurality of God and that Adam
>is our Father is a true doctrine revealed from God to Joseph and Brigham;
>for this same doctrine (Adam is
>God) is taught in some of the old Jewish records which have never been in
>print and I know Joseph Smith nor
>Brigham Young have had access to, and the Lord has revealed this doctrine
>unto them, or they could not have
>taught it. President Young said if all that God had revealed was in fine
>print, it would more than fill this room,
>but very little is written or printed which the Lord has revealed."
>(Revelations of Jesus Christ, Vol. 2, Section 33)
INteresting how the D&C and other so-called revelations of the mormons
have changed with the different printings of their books. I have
photocopies of the first printings of the Book of Mormon (that book
has been changed in over 4,000 places since then), and the Book of
Commandments (it later became the D&C, but several of the
"revelations" were drastically changed when they hit the D&C).
Both of these were photoreprinted from uncut sheets of the first
printings of each. joe smith's "revelations" weren't quite good
enough the first time around, so they got changed!
>
>(New Testament | Luke 24:39 - 43)
>39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see;
>for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
>40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
>41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto
>them, Have ye here any meat?
>42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
>43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
JESUS did indeed eat the fish and honeycomb, and HE (the SON, NOT THE
FATHER) did indeed have flesh and bones.
Perhaps you should try again, Bubba. It doesn't quite work when you
try to substitute Jesus for the Father.
>
>(New Testament | John 14:8 - 9)
>8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
>9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
>thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and
>how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
And if you have seen my sons, you have seen me too. You have seen my
values, my interests, and my world view.
But that DOES NOT MAKE MY SONS TO _BECOME_ ME.
You cannot read, Aaron.
>
>John 5:26
>5 As the Father hath life in himself, even so hath he given to the Son to
>have life in himself.
And Jesus DOES have life in Himself.
<snipped the rest of the mormon stuff. . .joe smith lied anyway.>
>> 3. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT CHRIST AND THE DEVIL ARE BROTHERS.
>>
>> "...that Lucifer, the son of morning, is our elder brother and the
>> brother of Jesus Christ" (Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, pp.
>> 163-4).
>>
>> The Bible says that the devil is a created being, created by God.
>>"thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
>> till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezekiel 28:15). "For by Him
>> (Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in
>> earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, of dominions,
>> or principalities, or powers; all things were created by Him and for
>> Him..." (Col. 1:15-17).
>
>(Old Testament | Isaiah 14:12)
>12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art
>thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
>
>So why is Lucifer called a son? Because he was one of the firstborn spirit
>children of the "Father of spirits",
Nonsense. He is NOT called a son of God. He is called "son of the
morning." Sorry Aaron, but your theory falls into the pit from whence
it came.
>
>9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we
>gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the
>Father of spirits, and live?
>(New Testament | Hebrews 12:9)
>
>Adam is the Father of all spirits.
joe smith pretended that. joe smith lied, of course. You are too
indoctrinated, Aaron. GOD is the CREATOR (and therefore in that
sense, "father," even though there was never a "mother" involved) of
EVERYTHING, even the spirits.
joe smith didn't understand Scripture.
>
>
>> 4. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT JESUS WAS MARRIED AND THE HE IS POLYGAMOUS.
>
>> "We say it was Jesus Christ who was married at Cana of Galilee"
>> (Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 80). Mormonism teaches that Jesus
>> was the natural child of Adam and Mary. "When the Virgin Mary
>> conceived the Child Jesus....He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.
>> And who is his Father? He is the first of the human family" (Brigham
>> Young, Journal of Discourses, pp. 50-51).
>
>This is about Jesus' own marriage.
That is what Bringem young said, but he was a heretic who didn't know
the Bible either.
No, this was NOT Jesus' own marriage. The Bible NEVER says He had a
wife.
joey smith lied about this too!
>1 AND the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother
>of Jesus was there:
>2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
>3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have
>no wine.
>4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is
>not yet come.
>5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
>6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the
>purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
>7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled
>them up to the brim.
>8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the
>feast. And they bare it.
>9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and
>knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the
>governor of the feast called the bridegroom
>10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine;
>and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept
>the good wine until now.
>(New Testament | John 2:1 - 10)
Nope, it doesn't say that this was Jesus' own wedding anywhere.
Doesn't say that the bridegroom was Jesus at all.
joey smith lied.
<snipped heretical mormon writing>
>
>Some of the early Bibles are quoted here showing the original translations
>(Psalms 45 , The Geneva Bible, London edition, 1599 AD) :
>8 All thy garments smell of myrre and aloes, and cassia, when thou commeth
>out of the yuory palaces where they have made thee glad.
>9 Kings daughters were among thine honorable wives: upon thy right hand did
>stand the Queen in a vesture of gold of Ophir.
>10 Hearken, O daughters, and consider, and encline thine ears: forget also
>thine own people and thy fathers home
>11 So shall the King have pleasure in thy beautie: for he is thy Lord, and
>reverence thou him.
>
>(Old Testament | Psalms 45:8 - 11/King James Version)
>8 All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory
>palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.
>9 Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did
>stand the queen in gold of Ophir.
>10 Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also
>thine own people, and thy father's house;
>11 So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and
>worship thou him.
>
>King James' translators were not willing that this passage <above> should
>have a literal translation, according to the former English rendering, lest
>it should give countenance to polygamy; therefore, they altered the
<snipped the rest of the heretic mormon pratt's nonsense>
Pratt didn't know that the literal rendering was not "wives" but
"daughters" or ladies of honor."
9 Kings' daughters are among Thy noble ladies; At Thy right hand
stands the queen in gold from Ophir. (NASB)
9 daughters of kings are among your ladies of honor; at your right
hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir. (NIV)
9 daughters of kings are among your ladies of honor; at your right
hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir. (NRS)
9 Kings' daughters are among your noble women: on your right is the
queen in gold of Ophir. (BBE)
9 Daughters of kings {are} among thy precious ones, A queen hath
stood at thy right hand, In pure gold of Ophir. (YLT)
Of course Pratt, like other mormon "leaders" didn't know his bible
either.
<snip>
Ran out of time
I'll finish this tomorrow if I have time
in Christ Jesus,
dennis
)
Iosepa Hawai'i Loa
> Raymond <rwk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ak6urv$k...@rain.i-cable.com...
>>
>> "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote in message
>> news:L%w99.897$p%3.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> >
>> > Raymond <rwk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:ajvebv$n8...@rain.i-cable.com...
>> > >
>> > > "Admiral Bob" <admira...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:485facae.02082...@posting.google.com...
>> > > > "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:<Z6e89.454$NZ.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
>> > > > > There is no true church except that which is led by the
> Melchizedek
>> > > > > Priesthood.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > Prophet Joseph Smith said, "All men are liars who say they are of the
> true
>>
>> So Mr. Joe Smith says Jesus was a liar, since he was a men. No wonder
>> you cult LDS folk follow Satan.
> No, Joseph Smith said men who say they are of the true church without
> the Melchizedek Priesthood and the revelations of Jesus Christ are
> liars. I don't understand how you could twist his words so badly. That
> kind of shows the extent of your credibility which doesn't sound too
> high too begin with.
>
>> TEN REASONS WHY SHOULD NOT BE A MORMON!
>>
>> 1. MORMONISM DOES NOT TEACH THAT THE BIBLE IS THE INFALLIBLE WORK
>> OF GOD.
>>
>> "We believe the Bible to the Word of God as far as it is
>> translated correctly; we also believe the book of Mormon to be the word
>> of God" (Articles of Faith, No. 8).
>>
>> As Christians we believe the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New
>> Testaments to the verbally inspired Word of God, the final authority
>> for faith and life, inerrant in the original writings, infallible and
>> God-breathed (2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:20-21; Matt 5:18).
You said it: the Bible was inerrant and inspired in the original
writings. Unfortunately, man has twisted its words to fit his intentions.
We have dozens (if not hundreds) of translations of the Bible in English
alone. Some add passages, while others ommit verses. If the Bible is
infallible, which of its translations is correct? That is the point
Joseph Smith, Jr., was making.
> Why is it so hard for you and other self professed Christians to accept
> that there could be other scriptures other than what is in the Bible?
> (Old Testament | 1 Chronicles 29:29)
> 29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are
> written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the
> prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer, If you saw the last two books
> mentioned would you consider them legitimate scriptures?
[several passages snipped]
Where to begin? "Son of man" refers to any descendent of Adam. "Son of
Man" refers to the Son of God.
If Adam is God, then who forbade him to partake of the fruit? Who drove
him from Eden for transgressing the law?
Elohim is the literal Father of the Son. Jesus was His only Begotten in
the flesh. Surely Adam had sons and daughters. Jesus couldn't be Adam's
only begotten.
>> 3. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT CHRIST AND THE DEVIL ARE BROTHERS.
>>
>> "...that Lucifer, the son of morning, is our elder brother and the
>> brother of Jesus Christ" (Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, pp.
>> 163-4).
>>
>> The Bible says that the devil is a created being, created by God.
>>"thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
>> till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezekiel 28:15). "For by Him
>> (Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in
>> earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, of dominions, or
>> principalities, or powers; all things were created by Him and for
>> Him..." (Col. 1:15-17).
>
> (Old Testament | Isaiah 14:12)
> 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how
> art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
>
> So why is Lucifer called a son? Because he was one of the firstborn
> spirit children of the "Father of spirits",
>
> 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and
> we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto
> the Father of spirits, and live?
> (New Testament | Hebrews 12:9)
>
> Adam is the Father of all spirits.
Adam is the Ancient of Days and the Archangel Michael, but not the Father
of all spirits.
>
>> 4. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT JESUS WAS MARRIED AND THE HE IS POLYGAMOUS.
>
>> "We say it was Jesus Christ who was married at Cana of Galilee"
>> (Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 80). Mormonism teaches that Jesus
>> was the natural child of Adam and Mary. "When the Virgin Mary
>> conceived the Child Jesus....He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And
>> who is his Father? He is the first of the human family" (Brigham
>> Young, Journal of Discourses, pp. 50-51).
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that a man must be
sealed in order to achieve the highest degree in the Celestial Kingdom.
Therefore, Christ must have been married. In Church, and in the
Scriptures, I find no record of the number of wives Jesus has.
Besides, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that all nuns are married to
Jesus. I guess that means that He has more spouses than anyone!
[REVELATION 17:3-6]
[EPHESIANS 2:12-13,18-20]
>> 6. MORMONISM TEACHES ANOTHER (PERVERTED) GOSPEL THAN THAT OF THE
>> BIBLE.
>>
>> The gospel to Mormonism is: "Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Receiving
>> the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands, Morality, Loyalty, Tithing, Word
>> of Wisdom, Duty Celestial Marriage (for eternity)" (LDS chart of FREE
>> AGENCY and Articles of Faith, No. 4).
>>
>> The Bible says, "Moreover brethren, I declare unto you the gospel
>> that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to
>> the scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:1, 3-4). "if any man preach any other
>> gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Gal.
>> 1:9).
Didn't Christ and the apostles teach such things?
"Thy faith hath made thee whole" (Matt 9:22)
"From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, Repent: for the kingdom
of heaven is at hand." (Matt 4:17)
Jesus' own baptism (Matt 3:13-17)
"Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy,
with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery." (I Tim 4:14)
We are not saved because of who our ancestors were. That's where the Jews
went wrong. When told to repent and be baptized, the Jews claimed
salvation because "we be Abraham's seed." (I forget the reference)
The Church of Jesus Chist of Latter-day Saints, on the other hand, does
genealogical work (we prefer "family history") to afford baptism to our
ancestors.
>> 9. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT THERE ARE MODERN DAY PROPHETS AND MODERN
>> DAY REVELATIONS FROM GOD.
>>
>> Mormonism claims that Joseph Smith received the Aaronic Priesthood
>> from John the Baptist. The Melchizedek Priesthood and Apostleship was
>> restored by Peter, James and John shortly afterwards in 1829 (Doc. &
>> Cov., Sec. 13).
>>
>> The Bible says, "God...hath in these last days spoken unto us by
>> his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he
>> made the worlds" (Heb. 1:1-2). The test of a prophet is given in Deut.
>> 18:20-22.
"Certainly the Lord GOD will do nothing, without first revealing his
secret to His servants, the prophets" (Amos 3:7 -- Almeida translation)
>> 10. MORMONISM TEACHES THAT SALVATION DEPENDS UPON GOOD WORKS AND
>> ACCEPTANCE OF JOSEPH SMITH.
>>
>> "No man who rejects the testimony of Joseph Smith can enter the
>> kingdom of God" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1 pg. 190). "Men have
>> work to do it they would obtain salvation" (Doctrines of Salvation.
>> vol. 3, pg 91).
>
>
>> The Bible teaches that salvation is provided by Jesus Christ alone,
>> "for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we
>> must be saved" (Acts 4:10-12). "For by grace are ye saved through
>> faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. Not of
>> works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).
>
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
(James 2:14-26)
"Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save
Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man
that ever lived in it." (D & C 135:3)
We honor Joseph Smith, Jr., as the Lord's instrument in restoring the
gospel. He is a prophet. We do not pray to him. We do not worship him.
He is a savior on Mount Zion, but not the Savior of mankind.
Iosepa Hawai'i Loa
--
: Ua Mau Ke Ea O Ka 'Aina I Ka Pono
: The Life/Sovereignty of the Land is Perpetuated in Righteousness
Phar-Lap
Micah & Kristina
Gospel say will follow us? Hmmm.... How many of us as believers are seeing
the manifested power of the Gospel, above and beyond the security of knowing
we are saved? I mean, just being saved is so lame when you compare that to
the passionate lover relationship that our Bridegroom desires to have with
us...
We are content to know it all and to argue about doctrines and our knowledge
about the scriptures... When do we start allowing the Lover of our souls to
begin to really be more than some invisible ideology? I mean, I was raised
in the church, my family was a missionary family traveling the world
preaching and teaching the Word everywhere we went. Faith is more than just
blind belief in this wonderful God we love, there is such a romance between
the bride and her Bridegroom that we somehow neglect to not only talk about,
but we seem to forget to show to those around us. Not all of us, mind you,
but alot of us, myself included. Steps, methods, formulas.... All the times
I tried to do what was right, being a good husband a good father, trying,
trying... Praying for God to help me to do what was right. All the while,
all of those things were done before the foundations of the world, escaped
me. I began to understand by grace what was wrong about a year ago, the lord
showed me as I was worshipping one morning, that as in Romans chapter 7 I
was trying to do what was right, and by that alone I gave power to that
which works against me. Only by grace imparted passion and wedded bliss with
our Bridegroom do I see Him impart what I need... His Presence and grace
abounding in my life in passionate bridal relationship.
Agape - Grace imparted, without my help, passionate, intoxicated,
affectionate yearning for Jesus my bridegroom, that causes me to draw close
to Him, and in His embrace stroke His face with affectionate words of bridal
worship that He gave me to say and sing to Him by giving me involuntary
strong memories along with the scriptures that go with them... This birthed
only out of His eternal pre-dawn Bridegroom encounter with me when He came
and got me 2000 years ago and picked me up and took me to the cross and laid
me down there with Him and caused us both to die together and then our
Father took me from His side where blood and water flowed. (Romans 6) Here,
our Father took me in the embrace of my sleeping Adam (1 Corinthians 15) and
raised us up both together sitting us beside Him in heavenly places where He
will eternally cause this agape love to flow from my heart towards Him. This
is the mystery, for without receiving this by grace, all is vanity.
My two cents,
Micah
dckelvie
<ios...@wingetsolutions.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:31:37 -0600, Aaron Kim wrote:
>
Hello Iosepa Hawai'i Loa,
I don't know if that is your name, or the name of your country club,
but hello anyway. :-)
You posted:
Let's see now. . .your implication is that if many translations are
made, it loses value?
We have over 5,300 copies of the New Testament from the first 2
centuries to translate from.
We have LIBRARYS of lexicons, Greek dictionaries, and the meanings of
the words are WELL KNOWN.
IF I wrote down in German, "Ich hat nach Deutschland geht," and a
zillion people translated it into English as "I have to Germany gone."
(which IS a valid translation) and if 5332 people wrote erroneious
translations of it, THEN YOU, after learning to speak German fluently
saw what I wrote and translated it as, "I have to Germany gone," would
YOUR translation (because of the zillion, 5332 translations before
you) NOT BE A VALID TRANSLATION?
In other words, isn't a translation valid if it is valid, REGARDLESS
OF how many other translations have been made?
The Book of Mormon has been changed since its first printing in over
4,000 places. The "revelations" in the Doctrine & Covenants were
HEAVILY changed when it was changed from the Book of Commandments, and
some of the "revelations" in the D&C have been changed since it BECAME
the D&C.
So what is your point?
With the Bible, there are good translations and there are poor
translations. There is even a translation where some heretic "stuck
in a bunch of stuff" that he never even claimed to have ANY TEXTUAL
BASIS FOR AT ALL! He just claimed that "God told him." His name was
joey smith. Of course you can't "translate" text that you don't have.
joey smith lied, of course.
>
>> Why is it so hard for you and other self professed Christians to accept
>> that there could be other scriptures other than what is in the Bible?
>> (Old Testament | 1 Chronicles 29:29)
>> 29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are
>> written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the
>> prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer, If you saw the last two books
>> mentioned would you consider them legitimate scriptures?
>
>[several passages snipped]
At least three GOOD reasons. First off, everything that has been
offered as "additional scripture" from THAT time period was either
not accepted by the first century Christians as "scripture" or has
been shown to have not really come from that time period, but was made
up much later.
Secondly, ALL of the "new stuff" has stuff in it that CONTRADICTS what
God already gave us in scripture. Since God does not lie, He does NOT
contradict Himself. New stuff that contradicts Him is simply false.
Thirdly, the Faith was given to us "once for all" during the time of
the Apostles. Anything ADDED TO IT is heresy.
Jude 3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our
common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that
you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed
down to the saints.
Galatians 1: 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach
to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be
accursed!
9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is
preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be
accursed!
10 For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving
to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a
bond-servant of Christ.
11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was
preached by me is not according to man.
WHAT WE HAVE PREACHED TO YOU, _past tense_.
Snipping again, like I did late last night. Ran out of time.
Time to go to worship.
in Jesus Christ (the REAL ONE, not the mormon one),
dennis
Iosepa Hawai'i Loa
> On Sun, 15 Sep 2002 01:17:22 -0600, Iosepa Hawai'i Loa
> <ios...@wingetsolutions.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:31:37 -0600, Aaron Kim wrote:
>>
> Hello Iosepa Hawai'i Loa,
>
> I don't know if that is your name, or the name of your country club, but
> hello anyway. :-)
Aloha Aaron!
Iosepa Hawai'i Loa is my handle. After having my identity stolen a few
years back, I decided to _rarely_ post under my given name. Anyway, I
believe with this nome de plume, I am able to post my beliefs without too
much prejudice clouding the picture.
Joseph F. Smith served as a missionary in Hawai'i for many years. The
natives loved him so much they gave him the name of Iosepa. This points
that I am pro-mormon.
Hawai'i Loa is the common ancestor of all Hawaiians. At the temple
dedication, the prophet identified Hawai'i Loa as being the Hagoth who led
a group of barges from the Americas (c. 64 BC) and were never again heard
of by the Nephites.
I sign with "aloha". Many of you are used to seeing it as a greeting,
but the word conveys more than just "hello" or "good bye". Aloha
encompasses all good feelings and intentions. It is a form of pure love.
It is the desire for the other to prosper. It is good kharma.
In short, I am a member of the Church who grew up in the Islands. I
consider myself active, tho I do disagree with some of the earlier
writings of Church leaders.
>
> You [Iosepa Hawai'i Loa] posted:
As I served a mission in Brasil, I witnessed firsthand that languages are
not identical. You lose something in most translations. There are
several phrases I commonly used in Hawai'i Nei that didn't have Portuguese
equivilents. Likewise, I now use Portuguese terms that make no sense in
English (either American or Hawaiian).
My point being that a particular translation is correct if it carries the
original thought. I firmly believe that the LORD inspired the prophets to
write their testimonies. We accept the Bible to be the Word of God, as
long as it's a faithful translation.
> IF I wrote down in German, "Ich hat nach Deutschland geht," and a
> zillion people translated it into English as "I have to Germany gone."
> (which IS a valid translation) and if 5332 people wrote erroneious
> translations of it, THEN YOU, after learning to speak German fluently
> saw what I wrote and translated it as, "I have to Germany gone," would
> YOUR translation (because of the zillion, 5332 translations before you)
> NOT BE A VALID TRANSLATION?
A translation is valid if it is truthful to the original. Just because a
bad version exists, doesn't mean that all translations are bad. Stop
trying to twist my words.
> The Book of Mormon has been changed since its first printing in over
> 4,000 places. The "revelations" in the Doctrine & Covenants were
> HEAVILY changed when it was changed from the Book of Commandments, and
> some of the "revelations" in the D&C have been changed since it BECAME
> the D&C.
I know of 12 editions of the Book of Mormon in English. Joseph Smith, Jr,
did not specify punctuation as he dictated the Scripture (I've seen
photocopies of the manuscripts written by Harris et all). The publisher
read over the text and inserted the punctuation marks found in the first
edition. Since that time, punctuation marks have changed; the paragraphs
were broken up into verses; chapter headings have been written time and
again; and cross-references have been added and changed. I think that
accounts for all but about 50 or so of the changes you noted. A few
phrases have been replaced by clearer ones (such as whether Lord in a
certain passage refers to the Father or the Son), but maintaining the
meaning.
>
> So what is your point?
>
> With the Bible, there are good translations and there are poor
> translations. There is even a translation where some heretic "stuck in
> a bunch of stuff" that he never even claimed to have ANY TEXTUAL BASIS
> FOR AT ALL! He just claimed that "God told him." His name was joey
> smith. Of course you can't "translate" text that you don't have.
>
> joey smith lied, of course.
Did you know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints never
accepted the JST as Scripture? First, it was never completed (Joseph was
martyred). Second, many of the manuscripts were retained by Emma when
Brigham Young led the saints west (Emma thought that Joseph's oldest son
should have been prophet). Since Emma started the RLDS Church, the RLDS
have the copyright on those changes. The LDS have obtained permission to
include passages in its edition of the King James Bible.
As to the additional passages, I believe they would probably be better
classified as new material instead of a translation.
The Church didn't publish any portions of the JST into Portuguese while I
was on my mission, so I didn't run into this question. I guess the best
way to answer it would be to inquire who has the right to alter
scripture? The answer is the author. Since we believe Joseph Smith, Jr,
to have been the mouthpiece of the Lord and His personal representative
upon the earth, we accept Joseph's authority to simplify and clarify
scriptures.
On behalf of the JST, I direct you to Hebrews 6:1. Please explain what
the King James Translation implies. Remember that Joseph didn't have
access to the Dead Sea Scrolls or other such ancient copies of the Bible.
As a firm Christian, how would you change that verse for it to make more
sense?
As it is getting late, I will not address your last topic - that of
additional scripture. I'm sure that everything that can be said has been,
and neither side is willing to bend.
Aloha,
Ed Dowell
> > >
> Did you know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints never
> accepted the JST as Scripture? First, it was never completed (Joseph was
> martyred). Second, many of the manuscripts were retained by Emma when
> Brigham Young led the saints west (Emma thought that Joseph's oldest son
> should have been prophet). Since Emma started the RLDS Church, the RLDS
> have the copyright on those changes. The LDS have obtained permission to
> include passages in its edition of the King James Bible.
>
>
I noticed that in one of your references to the RLDS church that you
stated that Emma started the RLDS church. This is not a factual part
of the origin of the RLDS church. There were several people that were
interested in getting back to the basics of the church before the
Nauvoo era, and they did not accept the leadership of Brigham Young,
nor did they go west with the migration. They started the
reorganization process in the early 1850's. Joseph III had nothing to
do with this group nor did Emma. Joseph III received inspiration to
join in this group later, and in the 1860 conference he came to accept
the leadership of the Reorganized church. Emma came with him to that
conference--she didn't have anything to do with the church before that
time. The idea that Emma started the RLDS church is a popular myth
among the LDS folks, but it is not factual.
Regards,
Ed
JTEM
George "Dubya" Bush -- who used family connections
to avoid seeing combat in Vietnam, is now threatening
to veto legislation which would help disabled veterans.
" ....But Nix and half a million other disabled veterans
learned after retiring that an obscure 19th century law
reduces their retirement pay by the amount they get in
disability. It's a quirky law applying only to disabled
soldiers and no other federal workers."
A little further down....
"NBC News has reported this story three times in the
past year and a half. Now Congress has
overwhelmingly voted to change the law to give
disabled veterans both sets of benefits."
"But the administration threatens to veto the
legislation, arguing that changing the law would be
too costly."
http://www.msnbc.com/news/809143.asp?cp1=1
How much did Enron cost America, after the Bush
Administration sealed the evidence of their
wrong-doing in California?
Service men injured in defense of this nation? Bush
couldn't care less!
Now *There's* some Christian "compassion" for you!
R.L. Measures
> George "Dubya" Bush -- who used family connections
> to avoid seeing combat in Vietnam, is now threatening
> to veto legislation which would help disabled veterans.
>
** in Texas, he would ordinarily be called "Gee-Dubya".
> " ....But Nix and half a million other disabled veterans
> learned after retiring that an obscure 19th century law
> reduces their retirement pay by the amount they get in
> disability. It's a quirky law applying only to disabled
> soldiers and no other federal workers."
>
> A little further down....
>
> "NBC News has reported this story three times in the
> past year and a half. Now Congress has
> overwhelmingly voted to change the law to give
> disabled veterans both sets of benefits."
>
> "But the administration threatens to veto the
> legislation, arguing that changing the law would be
> too costly."
>
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/809143.asp?cp1=1
>
> How much did Enron cost America, after the Bush
> Administration sealed the evidence of their
> wrong-doing in California?
>
> Service men injured in defense of this nation? Bush
> couldn't care less!
>
> Now *There's* some Christian "compassion" for you!
--
Rich, 805-386-3734, www.vcnet.com/measures (radio)
www.vcnet.com/measures/library.html (org. religion)
Lani girl
fact that Bush beat Gore in the last election.
I bet it also bothers them that the Republicans won both the House and the
Senate in the last election too.
"R.L. Measures" <2...@vc.net> wrote in message
news:2-1909020...@dsc04.lai-ca-2.rasserver.net...
garydw
news:R9li9.41405$jG2.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Sounds like there's a couple of whining Democrats who *still* can't face
the
> fact that Bush beat Gore in the last election.
>
> I bet it also bothers them that the Republicans won both the House and the
> Senate in the last election too.
>
>
The article was about what Bush plans to do to the men and women of our
military. It makes it clear that he action goes against the plans of the
House and Senate.
As to the election, please keep the facts correct.
Mr,. Bush did not win, The supreme court gave it to him,
In the final count Mr Gore had the popular vote of the people.
And at this time my dear the Democrats are in control of the Senate. And
they will have the house very soon.
Lani girl
"garydw" <no.spam...@directvinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3d8a8136$1...@nopics.sjc...
> "Lani girl" <"©<:-o}docw®²°°²_is_a_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:R9li9.41405$jG2.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > Sounds like there's a couple of whining Democrats who *still* can't face
> the
> > fact that Bush beat Gore in the last election.
> >
> > I bet it also bothers them that the Republicans won both the House and
the
> > Senate in the last election too.
> >
> >
> I would suggest you re-think you comment.
>
> The article was about what Bush plans to do to the men and women of our
> military. It makes it clear that he action goes against the plans of the
> House and Senate.
How can that be, since both the House and the Senate voted only 1 year ago
to support Bush's war against terrorism and are about now to take ANOTHER
vote supporting Bush's war effort?
You sound like you're full of crap. Many liberal Democrats *are*
(especially those who whine that Bush "didn't win the election") full of
crap, of couse.
> As to the election, please keep the facts correct.
>
> Mr,. Bush did not win, The supreme court gave it to him,
There ya go - one of those whining liberal Democrats full of crap that I
just mentioned.
Sorry pal, but apparently your education is so poor that you think something
other than the Electoral College determines the outcome of our Presidential
elections. Get a clue, you foolish liberal Democrat twinkie: the Electoral
College has been determining the outcome of our Presendential elections for
DECADES now.
garydw
was decided by The US Supreme Court.
And that still does not chagne the fact that the POPULAR vote was won by
Gore.
As to the support for the war on terriosim, that does not mean that the
House and Seneate are controlled by the Republicans. It just means that the
majority of the House and Seneate agreed with the plan. However at this
time, the Seneate is controlled by the Democrats, that is why the speaker of
the majority leader is a Democrat.
As to your comments about me being Stupid, no I am not. And I do not
appreciate such comments. Your judgement as to my political party are also
out of line. I did not state if I was Republican or Demorcrat. Fact is I
vote for the best candidate. I do not follow party lines.
By the way the majority leader is Tom Daschlle. (Democrat) and the Minority
leader is a republican form Mississippi
Royce Buehler
In article <3d8b0...@nopics.sjc>,
"garydw" <no.spam...@directvinternet.com> writes:
> By the way the majority leader is Tom Daschlle. (Democrat) and the Minority
> leader is a republican form Mississippi
That's Daschle with one 'l'. And the minority leader is Trent Lott (as
you say, a Republican from Mississippi.)
We've got the possibility of something really weird happening with the
Senate. Right now, there are 50 Democrats, 49 Republicans, and one
Vermont ex-Republican (now known in Republican circles as "that damn
Yankee") giving the Democrats an effective majority. Jean Carnahan,
a Democrat currently serving as a senator from Missouri, will be running
in a special election, before the general election (because she is serving
in the place of her husband, who was elected by Missouri in 2000 despite the
small detail of his being dead at the time.)
So if Jean Carnahan were to lose, and then the Democrats were to pick up
two seats in the general election, the Senate majority could switch
from Dem to GOP and back to Dem - all in the space of a few weeks. One
for the history books. :-)
By the way, since all the newsgroups this was posted to were religious ones,
what does all this have to do with them? Are some of us assuming that
God is a Republican, and others assuming that He is a Democrat?
If you check, I think you'll find the good Lord's not even registered
to vote...
--
Royce Buehler bue...@space.mit.edu
"Comme un fou se croit Dieu, nous nous croyons mortels"
-- Pierre Delalande
Lani girl
"Royce Buehler" <bue...@space.mitnos.pamedu> wrote in message
news:3d8b4c02$0$3950$b45e...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
> By the way, since all the newsgroups this was posted to were religious
ones,
> what does all this have to do with them? Are some of us assuming that
> God is a Republican, and others assuming that He is a Democrat?
Doubtful.
What many of us ARE assuming is that religious people ARE entitled to engage
in politics, just like everybody else.
Patrick R. Barker
>George "Dubya" Bush -- who used family connections
>to avoid seeing combat in Vietnam, is now threatening
>to veto legislation which would help disabled veterans.
>
>" ....But Nix and half a million other disabled veterans
>learned after retiring that an obscure 19th century law
>reduces their retirement pay by the amount they get in
>disability. It's a quirky law applying only to disabled
>soldiers and no other federal workers."
+ This has been a problem for a hundred years. You can't blame it
entirely on Bush. I am a prime example, and an expert on this
legislation being considered. Upon retirement of the armed forces,
most veterans are evaluated for disabilities by the VA center. Many
veterans are given a 10%, 20% or more - on back problems, hearing
problems, etc. We have NEVER actually recieved this money until it is
removed from the retirement check. Then it is given back, without
taxes withheld. Usually it saves a couple of bucks.
+ In April - this year - we veterans with 60-100 percent disability
are NOW receiving an extra $50 - 300. Without it being withheld from
our retirement pay.
+ We have seen some progress. Not much. But more than any president
in the last 50 years.
Royce Buehler
In article <kNIi9.43964$jG2.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Lani girl" <"©<:-o}docw®²°°²_is_a_...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> "Royce Buehler" <bue...@space.mitnos.pamedu> wrote in message
> news:3d8b4c02$0$3950$b45e...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
> > By the way, since all the newsgroups this was posted to were religious
> ones,
> > what does all this have to do with them? Are some of us assuming that
> > God is a Republican, and others assuming that He is a Democrat?
>
> Doubtful.
Well, I've certainly run into plenty of people who effectively make
such assumptions. Glad to hear you're not one of them.
> What many of us ARE assuming is that religious people ARE entitled to engage
> in politics, just like everybody else.
Agreed 100%. I'm just suggesting that the place for us to do it on Usenet
is probably on the politics groups.
Jon Jones
says...
> > Senate in the last election too.
> >
> >
> I would suggest you re-think you comment.
And could you please tell everyone what relevance this
topic has to any of the newsgroups it is spammed to.
Clovis Lark
> In article <kNIi9.43964$jG2.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "Lani girl" <"©<:-o}docw®²°°²_is_a_...@hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>> "Royce Buehler" <bue...@space.mitnos.pamedu> wrote in message
>> news:3d8b4c02$0$3950$b45e...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
>> > By the way, since all the newsgroups this was posted to were religious
>> ones,
>> > what does all this have to do with them? Are some of us assuming that
>> > God is a Republican, and others assuming that He is a Democrat?
>>
>> Doubtful.
> Well, I've certainly run into plenty of people who effectively make
> such assumptions. Glad to hear you're not one of them.
>> What many of us ARE assuming is that religious people ARE entitled to engage
>> in politics, just like everybody else.
> Agreed 100%. I'm just suggesting that the place for us to do it on Usenet
> is probably on the politics groups.
Wrongo, it should and can be done here as part of mormon and utahn spin on
things.
Clovis Lark
No, do your homework...
JTEM
"Patrick R. Barker" <bark...@erinet.com> wrote
> This has been a problem for a hundred years. You can't
> blame it entirely on Bush.
I can blame Dubya's threat to veto a bill on Dubya.
After all, it is his fault.
Jon Jones
That was helpful - but what did I expect.
Clovis Lark
> In alt.bible.prophecy, cl...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu says...
>> In alt.religion.mormon Jon Jones <jonj...@aol.com> wrote:
>> > In alt.bible.prophecy, no.spam...@directvinternet.com
>> > says...
>> >> > I bet it also bothers them that the Republicans won both the House and the
>> >> > Senate in the last election too.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> I would suggest you re-think you comment.
>>
>> > And could you please tell everyone what relevance this
>> > topic has to any of the newsgroups it is spammed to.
>>
>> No, do your homework...
> That was helpful - but what did I expect.
Not much and you got less? Or?
duke32
<no.spam...@directvinternet.com> wrote:
>As to the election, please keep the facts correct.
>Mr,. Bush did not win, The supreme court gave it to him,
Wrong - the Supreme Court can't do that.
The law is very clear. The Electorial college elects the President,
generally based, but not required, on an allocation of general
election votes by "district".
Why even Tennessee voted against atom algore.
>In the final count Mr Gore had the popular vote of the people.
Yep, but that's not the determinate according to the laws of this
country. Thank God.
Just think, if that were true, big money could "buy" the votes of the
most populous states and the rest of us would never have any sayso.
>And at this time my dear the Democrats are in control of the Senate. And
>they will have the house very soon.
Not by election. but by one Republican becoming an independant a
fully legal move.
And they can't even elect a big name in Florida on the 'rat side.
duke
*****
One day every tongue
Will confess You are God.
One day every knee will bow.
Still the greatest treasure remains
For those who gladly choose you now.
*****
garydw
public.
"duke32" <duk...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cb8nou4iatv06uhdu...@4ax.com...
fmhlaw
garydw wrote:
> In the final count Mr Gore had the popular vote of the people.
>
Actually, we don't know that to be true. There were documented cases of
wholesale fraud in heavily Democratic areas (vote early, vote often, dead or
alive, that sort of thing). If there had been a recount of the entire country,
it could very well be that Bush got the popular vote.
Lani girl
> But the election was decided by the Supreme Court, that was made very
> public.
Only because the whining Democrats tried to overturn the legitimate vote of
the Electoral College.
So the Supreme Court stepped in and shut the Democrats down.
And Bush won the election. Not only that, but a guy the pathetic and
hate-filled Democrats described as a mere "frat boy" and a "deer caught in
the headlights" managed to BEAT a SITTING Vice President, a laughable Demmie
VP who was enjoying a time of relative economic prosperity and STILL
couldn't pull off a win against the "frat boy".
Which REALLY made the Democrat Party look like a bunch of incompetant
buffoons!
But I guess most of America ALREADY knew that about the Demmies......
Lani girl
"fmhlaw" <fmh...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3D8BB59F...@attbi.com...
You're quite correct, fmhlaw.
But all that the pathetic Demmies have left (no pun intended) at this point
is their dreams, such as "Algore had the popular vote".
Once again, as always, the Demmies turned out to be a day late and a dollar
short. Even their election count fraud down in Florida couldn't help them
eke out a win. Algoof, of course, didn't help the process any......
Some call me...Tim
> algore
Look. How cute. He's parroting Rush. Isn't it adorable.
--
"There ought to be limits to freedom."
--GW Bush explaining why he took
legal action against a web site
for making fun of him.
Tim
http://member.newsguy.com/~satire/
Some call me...Tim
> Only because the whining Democrats tried to overturn the
> legitimate vote of the Electoral College.
Hasn't anyone ever told you that you look like a fool when you
try to argue something about which you know absolutely nothing?
The electoral college didn't vote until after the Supreme Court
made its ruling. The case centered on whether recounts of the
popular vote should be allowed to continue. The very justices
who most vocally argue for a state rights imposed their federal
will on the Florida state courts.
Some call me...Tim
> There were documented cases of
> wholesale fraud in heavily Democratic areas
Show me the documentation.
garydw
sides of the election.
garydw
Bush did not win, he stole the election.
Some call me...Tim
> "fmhlaw" <fmh...@attbi.com> wrote in message
>> Actually, we don't know that to be true. There were
>> documented cases of wholesale fraud in heavily Democratic
>> areas (vote early, vote often, dead
> Please we need to be very fair here. There where RUMORS of
> fraud on both sides of the election.
Rumors? fmhlaw says there were "documented cases of wholesale
fraud."
Of course he also claimed that Clinton created the Grand
Staircase National Monument to punish Utahns for not supporting
him noting that Clinton had not created any monuments in CA. I
pointed out that Clinton had indeeed created five (5) monuments
in CA and others in WA, NM, and OR--all states that had voted
for him in both '92 and '96. fmhlaw never replied.
My guess is that he listens to too much Limbaugh. (Is Mils
Crenshaw still polluting the Utah airwaves?)
duke32
<no.spam...@directvinternet.com> wrote:
>But the election was decided by the Supreme Court, that was made very
>public.
You mean "by stating what the law says". You think all the gimpy
tricks the 'rats tried like recounts on this block, but not that
block, and pregnant chads representing decision, were allowed by law.
Especially when the law says that recounts are determined by certain
predetermined facts and time frames.
Bush won the election according to the laws of this country.
atom algore tried to steal the election from the American public.
A change in the Constitution takes a long and drawn out effort with
majorities great than just 50%.
duke32
<tim...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>duke32 <duk...@earthlink.net> posted:
>
>> algore
>Look. How cute. He's parroting Rush. Isn't it adorable.
Yep, a man honest enough to tell it how it is.
garydw
Mr. Gore did not try to steal the election. The people made their choice
clear with the popular vote.
But all of that aside. What have we gotten with this new president? 100 of
thousands of people out of work. More being laid off everyday. Corp. America
is falling apart. A push to be the bully and start a war with IRAQ. IT is
amazing to me that we are going to do just what Japan did to us at Pearl
Harbor. We are going to attack another country with provocation.
This president has tried to get a national religion established.
I again, shall repeat, I am not democrat, and I am not republican. I vote as
I feel is best. And in this case I did not vote for either Gore or Bush. And
to be honest I wish we still had Clinton, or Carter in office. And not the
old lying AWOL from the military George W. Bush.
garydw
Mr. Gore did not try to steal the election. The people made their choice
V.O.J
The RESULT of too many years of peacnic and communist leadership. Bush did
not have a chance to repair the damage.
>A push to be the bully and start a war with IRAQ.
Really a push to get as many Democrats as possible to say stupid things like
you are and thus lose the next election with their own words.
Bush has ALWAYS had the full right to preemptive strike. He is playing the
idiots like a yo-yo
>IT is
> amazing to me that we are going to do just what Japan did to us at Pearl
> Harbor. We are going to attack another country with provocation.
And it is amazing that there are as many idiots today as there were in 1940
who said that Japan was our freind.
Yep, Bush is right. Give a liberal an opening and they will sick
themselves.
>
> This president has tried to get a national religion established.
>
> I again, shall repeat, I am not democrat, and I am not republican. I vote
as
> I feel is best.
As usual, the liberal lies.
>And in this case I did not vote for either Gore or Bush.
So, you didn't vote.
You sure didn't vote for Buchanan.
Reason?
There were no Communists or Socialists ( Nazis) on the ballot.
>And
> to be honest I wish we still had Clinton, or Carter in office.
And you are the winner of this week's prize, the blow up intern doll.
V.O.J
"Some call me...Tim" <tim...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:Xns928FE430BDB85...@216.168.3.40...
> "garydw" <no.spam...@directvinternet.com> posted:
>
> I
> pointed out that Clinton had indeeed created five (5) monuments
Cigars, a trashed CIA, and three trashed interns
All dedicated to California and it's fake (nonexistent) deregulation of
electricity.
Patrick R. Barker
+ Yes, he has threatened to veto the bill.
+ It is all politics though.
+ The bill would give me an extra $800. each month. However, the
cost would be to reduce VA benefits in other areas. I worry more
about those vets who need a home, need their medications, need new
glasses, new hearing aids, teeth, etc....
+ You mentioned:
>How much did Enron cost America, after the Bush
>Administration sealed the evidence of their
>wrong-doing in California?
+ Bush people sealed what evidence?
>Service men injured in defense of this nation? Bush
couldn't care less!
+ Your opinion. I disagree. I know he is woried more about where the
money will come from than actually providing the benefits. Aren't you
the same person who was whining about the deficit?
>Now *There's* some Christian "compassion" for you!
+ You are merely confused, my son.
JTEM
"Patrick R. Barker" <bark...@erinet.com> wrote
> The bill would give me an extra $800. each month.
> However, the cost would be to reduce VA benefits
> in other areas.
If that's true, it's still Bush's fault.
Why wasn't the choice between disabled vets and Bush's
corporate tax give-away?
> I worry more about those vets who need a home,
Not very much, apparently, as you don't fault Bush for presenting
you with the choice.
> >You mentioned:
> >How much did Enron cost America, after the Bush
> >Administration sealed the evidence of their
> >wrong-doing in California?
$300,000,000 just to the state of Florida. Not individual investors
living in Florida but the government of Florida itself.
All totaled $63,000,000,000 was erased from the U.S. economy.
> + Bush people sealed what evidence?
Enron was part of the Californian energy scam, creating shortages,
jacking up prices and reeking havok of the world's 8th largest
economy. The Bush administration investigated the matter and
sealed the evidence, protecting Enron and it's fellow crooks from
further legal action.
It is true that Enron was already a financial basket case at that
time and they were only soaking California's economy in a sad
attempt to keep the pyramid scheme going. However, all they
managed to accomplish was to punch the economy in the ribs
and to buy themselves more time to unload worthless stock on
unsuspecting victims.
> > Service men injured in defense of this nation? Bush
> > couldn't care less!
> + Your opinion.
Then why is the choice between disabled veterans and other
veterans in need, instead of between disabled veterans and
another tax handout to the rich?
You appear to be under the mistaken notion that it has to be
this way -- or it should be -- and that Bush is powerless to
alter the situation.
That is a personal choice that you made and is no reflection
of reality.
fmhlaw
garydw wrote:
There were newspaper articles reporting actual voter tallies in districts where
the Democrat vote exceeded the number of registered voters. No similar
articles about Republican districts. That's a little better than rumor, I
think.
Some call me...Tim
> There were newspaper articles reporting actual voter
> tallies in districts where the Democrat vote exceeded the
> number of registered voters. No similar articles about
> Republican districts. That's a little better than rumor, I
> think.
As I recall those were rumors reported on hate radio. Perhaps
you can find one of these articles yor refer to.
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
wrote:
>JP <perettij_pasd...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
>news:xKg89.18306$cH2.1...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>> > "Aaron Kim" wrote:
<snip>
>The Bible tells us that faith without works is dead
>James 2: 14 What doth it profit , my brethren, though a man say he hath
>faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
>15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
>16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled;
>notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body;
>what doth it profit?
>17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
>So if we say we have faith in the Gospel, what's the point if we fail to
>live godly lives and go to church? As the above verses aptly point out, our
>faiths then would ring pretty hollow, unbelievers would laugh at us when we
>profess our faith to them. Attending a church is a mandatory requirement of
>a Christian life Regular attendance helps maintain and grow our faith in
>Christ.
I see, so the homebound, like myself, are doomed to go to hell...
gotcha
Paul Duca
duke32 wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 01:18:17 -0000, "Some call me...Tim"
> <tim...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> >duke32 <duk...@earthlink.net> posted:
> >
> >> algore
> >Look. How cute. He's parroting Rush. Isn't it adorable.
>
> Yep, a man honest enough to tell it how it is.
>
Does that mean you've also scored a wife half your age and a
quarter your IQ (trading in, what, TWO other females where the words "to
honor and cherish, to leep until death do you part" were somehow
involved)?
Paul
Jon Jones
christi...@ev1.net says...
> On Fri, 23 Aug 2002 20:43:24 GMT, "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com>
> Attending a church is a mandatory requirement of
> >a Christian life Regular attendance helps maintain and grow our faith in
> >Christ.
>
> I see, so the homebound, like myself, are doomed to go to hell...
> gotcha
Glenn. The odds are good he is one of the folk who believe
you are homebound because your father's father's father'
father (unto the fifth generation) did something to tick
off god.
Personal: After all you have been through, I guess you
deserve an angel for a wife. Or, how are you doing?
Clovis Lark
> garydw wrote:
Interesting, you have an actual citation?
Did you happen to see the result of the 8 newspapers' manual recount of
the state? Make sure you have a citation for your response.
Laura Gonzalez
>On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 01:18:17 -0000, "Some call me...Tim"
><tim...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>Look. How cute. He's parroting Rush. Isn't it adorable.
>
>Yep, a man honest enough to tell it how it is.
Rush? Rush Limbaugh? We are talking about radio personality Rush
Limbaugh? The one who just posted that either all or the majority of
the guys arrested in NY were registered Demos? Yes, the terrorists
were Demos. He may be onto something there. How about this...the guy
just convicted of murdering the little girl in San Diego, Ted Bundy
and Robert Giordano, all murderers and/or pedophiles/perverts, were
registered Republicans. Now do ya think Rush will put that up on his
website? See, I knew the two parties were bad news........
Laura Gonzalez
>Enron was part of the Californian energy scam, creating shortages,
>jacking up prices and reeking havok of the world's 8th largest
>economy.
We're 6th! 6th! Damn Frogs took over the number 5 slot, but not by
much.
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
>In article <3d8ce56...@news.ev1.net>,
>christi...@ev1.net says...
>> On Fri, 23 Aug 2002 20:43:24 GMT, "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com>
>
>> Attending a church is a mandatory requirement of
>> >a Christian life Regular attendance helps maintain and grow our faith in
>> >Christ.
>>
>> I see, so the homebound, like myself, are doomed to go to hell...
>> gotcha
>
>Glenn. The odds are good he is one of the folk who believe
>you are homebound because your father's father's father'
>father (unto the fifth generation) did something to tick
>off god.
Even though God repented of that idea, about halfway through the OT
>Personal: After all you have been through, I guess you
>deserve an angel for a wife. Or, how are you doing?
Pretty good, but a little concerned my wife should have been home over
an hour ago, her boss called, they are having car trouble. I am going
to be up late tonight/early morning (whatever); I prefer Roman time
(used in much of the Bible, meanig the "first hour" starts at
sunrise... So I can simply say TONIGHT !
garydw
Mr. Gore did not try to steal the election. The people made their choice
clear with the popular vote.
But all of that aside. What have we gotten with this new president? 100 of
thousands of people out of work. More being laid off everyday. Corp. America
is falling apart. A push to be the bully and start a war with IRAQ. IT is
amazing to me that we are going to do just what Japan did to us at Pearl
Harbor. We are going to attack another country with provocation.
This president has tried to get a national religion established.
I again, shall repeat, I am not democrat, and I am not republican. I vote as
garydw
Mr. Gore did not try to steal the election. The people made their choice
garydw
did, or why.
Well ASSHOLE let me set the record straight for you and allthe other little
lovers of the pin head you call the president.
I am not LIBERAL, I just don;t happen to like Georege Sr, or Jr. Never have
and never will.
I do not like war, unless there is a damn good reason for war.
I did vote, but I just did not vote for Bush or Gore, there where other
options.
"V.O.J" <ic...@righthere.com> wrote in message
news:TG_i9.50570$S32.3...@news2.west.cox.net...
duke32
<no.spam...@directvinternet.com> wrote:
>Mr. Gore did not try to steal the election. The people made their choice
>clear with the popular vote.
Cool. That's not how the election is determined.
>But all of that aside. What have we gotten with this new president? 100 of
>thousands of people out of work. More being laid off everyday. Corp. America
>is falling apart. A push to be the bully and start a war with IRAQ. IT is
>amazing to me that we are going to do just what Japan did to us at Pearl
>Harbor. We are going to attack another country with provocation.
You've gotten a truly great and honest president from what you had for
the previous 8 years under BJ Bill.
All these people out of work started under BJ Bill and (1) the
collapse of the technology market artifically inflated under BJ Bill,
(2) Greespan's mad rush under BJ Bill's time to drive up interest
rated to quell the growth of the market, and it's subsequent crash,
(3) The establish of Al Queada as a terriorist weapon during BJ Bills
time in office, and his total incapability to jput a stop to it and
(4) 9/11 itself was just a terriorist act fully allowed by BJ Bill
that rose up it's ugly head less than a year later under President
Bush.
A war with Iraq now is the best way to keep your kids from dying from
poisonour gas or a neclear explosion. Thanks to BJ Bill.
You can call it provocation. That's what I call 9/11. Our response
is retaliation.
>This president has tried to get a national religion established.
Which one?
>I again, shall repeat, I am not democrat, and I am not republican. I vote as
>I feel is best. And in this case I did not vote for either Gore or Bush. And
>to be honest I wish we still had Clinton, or Carter in office. And not the
>old lying AWOL from the military George W. Bush.
AWOL George????? How old are you? Did'nt you know that komrade bj
klinton moveed to Europe to avoid the draft and then visited The
Soviet Union during the Vietnam war.
duke32
wrote:
>> Yep, a man honest enough to tell it how it is.
> Does that mean you've also scored a wife half your age and a
>quarter your IQ (trading in, what, TWO other females where the words "to
>honor and cherish, to leep until death do you part" were somehow
>involved)?
Then you tell me what the stains on the blue dress were.
duke32
>>Yep, a man honest enough to tell it how it is.
>Rush? Rush Limbaugh? We are talking about radio personality Rush
>Limbaugh? The one who just posted that either all or the majority of
>the guys arrested in NY were registered Demos?
Very little doubt in my mind. Is it the conservative corporate
officer who tried to rob a liquor store and blow away the clerk, or
one of the liberal bro's who always has his hand out?
Don't you realize the 'rat party is made up of those who always have
their hands out, and the Republican party is make up of those that do
the giving.
> Yes, the terrorists
>were Demos.
Actually, there were not even Americans.
And I doublt Rush said otherwise.
> He may be onto something there. How about this...the guy
>just convicted of murdering the little girl in San Diego, Ted Bundy
>and Robert Giordano, all murderers and/or pedophiles/perverts, were
>registered Republicans.
Didn't you just get thru proclaiming the "majority" were 'rats.
> Now do ya think Rush will put that up on his
>website? See, I knew the two parties were bad news........
btw, and just for grins, how do you know what party they were
registered to, and even so, what their thoughts were along political
lines?
garydw
> On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 08:29:31 -0500, "garydw"
> <no.spam...@directvinternet.com> wrote:
>
> >Mr. Gore did not try to steal the election. The people made their choice
> >clear with the popular vote.
>
> Cool. That's not how the election is determined.
>
> >But all of that aside. What have we gotten with this new president? 100
of
> >thousands of people out of work. More being laid off everyday. Corp.
America
> >is falling apart. A push to be the bully and start a war with IRAQ. IT is
> >amazing to me that we are going to do just what Japan did to us at Pearl
> >Harbor. We are going to attack another country with provocation.
>
> You've gotten a truly great and honest president from what you had for
> the previous 8 years under BJ Bill.
>
> All these people out of work started under BJ Bill and (1) the
> collapse of the technology market artifically inflated under BJ Bill,
No, it happened under George W. Bush.
> (2) Greespan's mad rush under BJ Bill's time to drive up interest
> rated to quell the growth of the market, and it's subsequent crash,
> (3) The establish of Al Queada as a terriorist weapon during BJ Bills
> time in office, and his total incapability to jput a stop to it and
Terriorist where in place before Bill. They where here under George Sr., and
other presidnets before . And there will be terriorist after George Jr.
> (4) 9/11 itself was just a terriorist act fully allowed by BJ Bill
> that rose up it's ugly head less than a year later under President
> Bush.
>
How was Bill responsible for 9/11? No politician in the US is responsible
for what happened that day. And there is no WAY to know if it could have
been stopped.
> A war with Iraq now is the best way to keep your kids from dying from
> poisonour gas or a neclear explosion. Thanks to BJ Bill.
>
I am at a loss here. What will we gain if we go to war with IRAQ? The
answer nothing.
> You can call it provocation. That's what I call 9/11. Our response
> is retaliation.
IRAQ was not a part of the 9/11 incident. And there has been no eveidence
offred to the American people to show that IRAQ was involved.
>
>
Doug Weller
[SNIP]
>
>You've gotten a truly great and honest president from what you had for
>the previous 8 years under BJ Bill.
Hate to be critical, but this isn't very good satire. One might think
you meant it if it isn't so obviously untrue.
[SNIP]
Doug
Doug Weller member of moderation panel sci.archaeology.moderated
Submissions to: sci-archaeol...@medieval.org
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk
Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details
Patrick R. Barker
>> > Service men injured in defense of this nation? Bush
>> > couldn't care less!
>
>> + Your opinion.
>
>Then why is the choice between disabled veterans and other
>veterans in need, instead of between disabled veterans and
>another tax handout to the rich?
+ Do you know how the budget is developed?
>You appear to be under the mistaken notion that it has to be
>this way -- or it should be -- and that Bush is powerless to
>alter the situation.
+ Bush does NOT set up, or OK the budget. Congress does.
+ Bush merely proposes what he would like to spend every year
to the Congress. He is supposed to give them his budget proposals
prior to March. Then congress literally tears it up, changes it,
passes two versions of it in the house and senate, and then hammers
out some sort of compromise. They are supposed to make the income
match the output. Each year, each department is allocated a certain
amount of money from CONGRESS. They are mandated into spending that
money in certain ways. Laws (passed by Congress) tells them that they
must spend a certain amount on drugs, a certain amount on building
maintenance, a certain amount on new construction. They are even told
how much that construction job must have minority businesses involved.
The Veterans Administration does not have control on where they want
to spend their money. You are a fool if you think so. You are a fool
if you think Bush can tell them where to spend it. You are a fool if
you think Bush passes the laws, giving them the money.
+ Congress screws around with the budget proposals, stalls them, and
when they think they can blame the president, they stop the
legislative process altogether.
+ Bush has the power of veto of the entire bill. The republicans
finally got the line-item veto passed during the Clinton years, but
the dems felt they lost control, and that bill was overturned.
>That is a personal choice that you made and is no reflection
>of reality.
+ I try to keep the bigger picture in mind. Certainly I could be
greedy and demand 2 slices of the pie for myself. However, I also
have children and grandchildren who must ultimately pay the bill. I
don't think we should pay social security out to people who don't need
it. That includes children and rich retired old people.
Some call me...Tim
> Very little doubt in my mind. Is it the conservative
> corporate officer who tried to rob a liquor store and blow
> away the clerk, or one of the liberal bro's who always has
> his hand out?
No it's the ceos who stole 66 billion from their stockholders
while their compamies went under.
http://www.fortune.com/indexw.jhtml?channel=artcol.jhtml&doc_id=
209015
Bruce LaMore
(snipped for brevity)
> I again, shall repeat, I am not democrat, and I am not republican. I vote
as
> I feel is best. And in this case I did not vote for either Gore or Bush.
And
> to be honest I wish we still had Clinton, or Carter in office. And not the
> old lying AWOL from the military George W. Bush.
Did I miss something? When was "GW" AWOL from the military?
Bruce
Some call me...Tim
> btw, and just for grins, how do you know what party they
> were registered to, and even so, what their thoughts were
> along political lines?
Bundy was a Republican party activist in WA and worked on the
campaigns of Dan Evans and others. In addition to reading about
it newspaper accounts and Ann Rule's book, I've discussed it
with Republican friends who knew and worked with him.
But that doesn't really matter. The purpose of my posts wasn't
to claim that Republican politics appeals to pedophiles and
serial killers; it was to point out how silly Rush's accusations
are. True to form, his supporters were unable to see the
difference. It's no wonder that political discourse has devolved
into a kind of "Battle of the Morons". Look at the audience.
Paul Duca
duke32 wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 08:29:31 -0500, "garydw"
> <no.spam...@directvinternet.com> wrote:
>
> >Mr. Gore did not try to steal the election. The people made their choice
> >clear with the popular vote.
>
> Cool. That's not how the election is determined.
>
> >But all of that aside. What have we gotten with this new president? 100 of
> >thousands of people out of work. More being laid off everyday. Corp. America
> >is falling apart. A push to be the bully and start a war with IRAQ. IT is
> >amazing to me that we are going to do just what Japan did to us at Pearl
> >Harbor. We are going to attack another country with provocation.
>
> You've gotten a truly great and honest president from what you had for
> the previous 8 years under BJ Bill.
>
> All these people out of work started under BJ Bill and (1) the
> collapse of the technology market artifically inflated under BJ Bill,
> (2) Greespan's mad rush under BJ Bill's time to drive up interest
> rated to quell the growth of the market, and it's subsequent crash,
> (3) The establish of Al Queada as a terriorist weapon during BJ Bills
> time in office, and his total incapability to jput a stop to it and
> (4) 9/11 itself was just a terriorist act fully allowed by BJ Bill
> that rose up it's ugly head less than a year later under President
> Bush.
>
> A war with Iraq now is the best way to keep your kids from dying from
> poisonour gas or a neclear explosion.
` Don't you WANT your kids to get to your happy Heaven ASAP?
Paul
JTEM
"Patrick R. Barker" <bark...@erinet.com> wrote
> "JTEM" <jay...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Then why is the choice between disabled veterans and other
> >veterans in need, instead of between disabled veterans and
> >another tax handout to the rich?
> + Do you know how the budget is developed?
Yes.
> >You appear to be under the mistaken notion that it has to be
> >this way -- or it should be -- and that Bush is powerless to
> >alter the situation.
> + Bush does NOT set up, or OK the budget.
But he can. The President did exactly that right up until the
days of Jimmy Carter. And every President can & has
proposed specific line items, as Bush certainly could have.
Again, you choose to pretend that Bush is powerless here,
when it fact the situation reveals his priorities, his character.
If Bush had different priorities then you would not currently
be faced with a choice between additional spending for
disabled vets and maintaining spending on other vets in
need.
Considering that Bush is currently *Struggling* for the chance
to create new disabled vets, what this situation reveals about
his character is disturbing.
The fact that you claim to be a disabled vet yourself, yet
defend the situation Bush created, makes it all the more
disturbing.
garydw
"Bruce LaMore" <bkl...@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:uosld9s...@corp.supernews.com...
Glad to answer:
For a time frame of almost 1 year in 1972-1973. This is well documented, and
has also been reported in the media.
You may find all the sources, and documentation you need at the following
website.
Enjoy.
JTEM
"Laura Gonzalez" <m...@home.net> wrote
> "JTEM" <jay...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Enron was part of the Californian energy scam, creating shortages,
> >jacking up prices and reeking havok of the world's 8th largest
> >economy.
> We're 6th! 6th! Damn Frogs took over the number 5 slot, but not by
> much.
Don't worry. As soon as we don't have a "president" who wants to
kick California for not voting for him -- even if it's the rest of the
country that suffers -- you'll be back on top.
R.L. Measures
€ The sins of the fathers are visited on the children.
--
Rich, 805-386-3734, www.vcnet.com/measures (radio)
www.vcnet.com/measures/library.html (org. religion)
Lani_girl
"R.L. Measures" <2...@vc.net> wrote in message
news:2-2309021...@dsc02.lai-ca-1.rasserver.net...
> In article <hIEj9.185966$Jo.65660@rwcrnsc53>, "JTEM" <jay...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> > "Laura Gonzalez" <m...@home.net> wrote
> >
> > > "JTEM" <jay...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >Enron was part of the Californian energy scam, creating shortages,
> > > >jacking up prices and reeking havok of the world's 8th largest
> > > >economy.
> >
> > > We're 6th! 6th! Damn Frogs took over the number 5 slot, but not by
> > > much.
> >
> > Don't worry. As soon as we don't have a "president" who wants to
> > kick California for not voting for him -- even if it's the rest of the
> > country that suffers -- you'll be back on top.
>
Patrick R. Barker
>
>> + Bush does NOT set up, or OK the budget.
>
>But he can. The President did exactly that right up until the
>days of Jimmy Carter. And every President can & has
>proposed specific line items, as Bush certainly could have.
+ Bush submits his bidget to Congress.
+ They - in turn - throw it away and build their own.
+ The House passes one version - with their pork.
+ The senate passes their version with their pork.
+ Once all the differences have been ironed out, all of the pork added
up, then it goes to the president for his signature. He does not have
line-item veto authority over it.
>Again, you choose to pretend that Bush is powerless here,
>when it fact the situation reveals his priorities, his character.
>If Bush had different priorities then you would not currently
>be faced with a choice between additional spending for
>disabled vets and maintaining spending on other vets in
>need.
+ You still don't get it.
+ When you decide to give away 50 Billion to the veterans, congress or
the people will hold you responsible for coming up with that 50
Billion. The laws have always been on the books for the veterans to
receive both retirement pay AND disability pay. It has been Congress
for 50 years who has elected NOT to pay both.
>
>Considering that Bush is currently *Struggling* for the chance
>to create new disabled vets, what this situation reveals about
>his character is disturbing.
>
>The fact that you claim to be a disabled vet yourself, yet
>defend the situation Bush created, makes it all the more
>disturbing.
+ Bush Did NOT create this mess.
+ It has been a mess for many many many years.
+ We have had numerous cases where retirees have actually sued in
Federal Court to try to get what was promised and what they feel is
deserved. We have LOST every single case.
+ I get $50 more each month than I did under Clinton.
+ May not mean much to you, but... I sure like it.
+ I just don't want to break my grand-children's backs because I
wanted that Volvo instead of the Corola.
duke32
wrote:
>> A war with Iraq now is the best way to keep your kids from dying from
>> poisonour gas or a neclear explosion.
> ` Don't you WANT your kids to get to your happy Heaven ASAP?
>Paul
No.
duke32
<tim...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>duke32 <duk...@earthlink.net> posted:
>
>> Very little doubt in my mind. Is it the conservative
>> corporate officer who tried to rob a liquor store and blow
>> away the clerk, or one of the liberal bro's who always has
>> his hand out?
>
>No it's the ceos who stole 66 billion from their stockholders
>while their compamies went under.
And the 'rats that hold their hands out for more freebies.
duke32
<tim...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> btw, and just for grins, how do you know what party they
>> were registered to, and even so, what their thoughts were
>> along political lines?
>
>Bundy was a Republican party activist in WA and worked on the
>campaigns of Dan Evans and others. In addition to reading about
>it newspaper accounts and Ann Rule's book, I've discussed it
>with Republican friends who knew and worked with him.
>But that doesn't really matter.
Good.
> The purpose of my posts wasn't
>to claim that Republican politics appeals to pedophiles and
>serial killers; it was to point out how silly Rush's accusations
>are. True to form, his supporters were unable to see the
>difference. It's no wonder that political discourse has devolved
>into a kind of "Battle of the Morons". Look at the audience.
On the other hand, I prefer to believe that his constitutency is based
on the givers and not the getters.
JTEM
"Patrick R. Barker" <bark...@erinet.com> wrote
> + Bush submits his bidget to Congress.
> + They - in turn - throw it away and build their own.
So you're claiming that Bush asked for increased spending
on veterans and congress refused him?
If so, you're lying.
> He does not have line-item veto authority over it.
All that means is he couldn't veto spending. As the
issue here is "not spending," it makes no difference.
The problem is one of priorities. Bush doesn't see
disabled vets as any kind of priority, tough he's
working hard to create more of them.
> You still don't get it.
Again, it's a matter of priorities.
> When you decide to give away 50 Billion to the veterans,
> congress or the people will hold you responsible for
> coming up with that 50 Billion.
We had the money. We had a surplus. Bush thought other
things were more important. Again, it's a matter of priorities.
> The laws have always been on the books for the veterans
> to receive both retirement pay AND disability pay. It has
> been Congress for 50 years who has elected NOT to pay
> both.
But that is no longer the case, which you know.
Congress has passed the spending and Bush is threatening to
veto it.
> + Bush Did NOT create this mess.
But he did, regardless of how much you want to whitewash
the man. Congress did pass the spending. Bush is threatening
to veto the bill.
> It has been a mess for many many many years.
But not any more, except that Bush is trying to stop the change
and continue the mess.
Paul Duca
duke32 wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 01:25:45 GMT, Paul Duca <tomser...@attbi.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> A war with Iraq now is the best way to keep your kids from dying from
> >> poisonour gas or a neclear explosion.
>
> > ` Don't you WANT your kids to get to your happy Heaven ASAP?
> >Paul
>
> No.
>
> d
Why? God knows YOU can't do anything for them here on Earth...
Paul
clif...@netdoor.com
<no.spam...@directvinternet.com> wrote:
This is opposed, of course, to the old lying AWOL from the military
William Jefferson Clinton ?
JTEM
<clif...@netdoor.com> wrote
> This is opposed, of course, to the old lying AWOL
> from the military William Jefferson Clinton ?
He certainly wasn't AWOL as he didn't have a filthy
rich dad with the connections to keep him safe in
Texas well the poor kids died.
Clinton may have avoided service in Vietnam -- just
like Bush -- but he did it using his own brains and
not dad's connections.