Masters Degree or CCIE, Which has more value
detro...@my-deja.com
my Masters Degree in Information Technology or attempt the CCIE lab. I
dont have time for both because both will take the same time(about 1 1/2
to 2 years). The masters degree focuses a lot on networking. It seems to
me that the masters degree would do more for my career because there
arent that many people in this field that have one and I will always
have it and it can never be taken away from me. The CCIE certification
can be taken away if you dont recertify and 10 years from now it could
have no value(who knows). I know that a masters degree will always have
value. I have a B.A. in Business Management and without that I would not
have gotten the position I have because a bachelors is required for this
job. Right now my degree has helped me more than certification. I am
almost finished with the CCNP and it is no challenge for me. Which do
you all think would have more value? CCIE with Experience or Masters in
Information Technology with CCNP and CCDP and Experience?
Thanks In Advance for any responses
MED
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Joseph B. Baugh
but also plan to get a Master's degree and want to get the CCIE cert
eventually. Decisions, decisions, so much learning to do, so little time.
Joe
detro...@my-deja.com wrote:
--
__________________________________________________________________
Joseph B. Baugh, BSCS, CCNA, CCDA, CUA, CCSE
Network Services Supervisor Arizona Electric Power Cooperative, Inc.
phone: 520.586.5111 fax: 520.586.5343
pager: 520.793.0732 text: 52079...@alphapage.airtouch.com
__________________________________________________________________
Peter Retief
the same .. the CCNP is just a series of computer-based exams, as is the
CCIE entry test. The CCIE lab is a much tougher proposition, and cannot be
passed without extensive practical experience.
The CCIE is probably worth more in the short term than a Masters Degree, but
you are correct that the Masters Degree does not devalue over time, which
the CCIE will do, unless renewed.
Why not go for both at once .. some universities are starting to combine
masters degrees with ccie training.
For example, see http://cs.acadiau.ca/seminars/previous/TerryHallet.html
<detro...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8t6qkp$atd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Eric Overby
Eric
"Peter Retief" <pre...@nospam.mweb.co.za> wrote in message
news:8t78up$8qk$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
BGT
i think your masters would be more geared towards management or someone
wanting to go into management. is that what you want? or do you want to stay
technical and still make nice bucks?? then go for your CCIE.
detro...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8t6qkp$atd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
WantWeb
lab requirement. Unless you plan on working for Cisco or one of their
resellers there isn't much more value added in getting a CCIE.
.
detro...@my-deja.com
"BGT" <BTEUSINKNOSPAM@.prodigy.net> wrote:
>This might sound weird but I want to do both. I know that it might be
hard but thats my goal. I have a love for technology but I also have a
love for management. I guess in a way the CCIE Lab turns me off a
little because I will be putting to much of my career in the hands of
Cisco. At any time anybody that has passed the CCIE lab could be
required to have to take another lab in order to keep there
certification. Who knows what might happen. I also knew two guys when I
worked at General Motors and they worked at Cisco and these guys were
very sharp technically but they both had never passed the CCIE lab and
they had taken it 5 or 6 times. That has got to be irritating. I cant
imagine flying to North Carolina to take the lab and to fail it.
Knowing I could have been doing something else better for my career.
Another bad thing is the fact that you would have to wait 6 months
before you could take the Lab again.
> i think your masters would be more geared towards management or
someone
> wanting to go into management. is that what you want? or do you want
to stay
> technical and still make nice bucks?? then go for your CCIE.
>
> detro...@my-deja.com wrote in message
<8t6qkp$atd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
michael champion
ignore this thread. A Cisco CCNP or even CCIE shows that you are
well-grounded in Cisco products and technology, period. A Master's degree in
EE or Computer Science implies that you have had over 120 hours of course
study in a rigorous and well-organized study program over an average of 4
years that includes Engineering Mechanics, Physics, hands-on electronic
laboratories, electrical engineering or computer science theory, class
projects which you are graded on, advanced mathematics, etc. Just about
every company that I see in local job fairs REQUIRE a college degree in
computer science, electrical engineering, or some related discipline before
they will even discuss with you a technical position; their idea of
equivalent experience would be 8-10 years heavily involved in directly
supporting a huge network.
When I say get a degree, I mean a BSEE or an MSEE. It will pay dividends
down the road. Don't buy into the CCIE hype. Unless you have years of
experience to back it up even with that cert you will find it difficult to
be given an advanced networking opportunity with a commensurate salary. The
CCIE lab gives you an opportunity to prove your skills and knowledge of
mainly Cisco products. However, not every company in the world has gone a
purely Cisco route, and your Cisco knowledge won't mean squat if you are
having to work with non-Cisco equipment (all of the IOS commands that you
learned to take advantage of some proprietary Cisco feature will be
useless).
My advice? Get an MSEE with a minor in IT (if available) or computer
science, learn as much as you can about how Unix internally works, and,
while attending the university, see if you can get some hands-on experience
with the school's network (which probably is Cisco-based with Unix servers).
If the CCNP is not a challenge for you then try partial differential
equations, calculus on manifolds, quantum mechanics, tensor analysis, etc.
while you are earning your degree. By no stretch of the imagination is a
Cisco cert of any type equivalent to a college education in a technical
field.
JMHO
MLC CCNP 2.0 MSEE et al
Peter Retief <pre...@nospam.mweb.co.za> wrote in message
news:8t78up$8qk$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> Do not assume that because the CCNP is no challenge for you that the CCIE
is
> the same .. the CCNP is just a series of computer-based exams, as is the
> CCIE entry test. The CCIE lab is a much tougher proposition, and cannot
be
> passed without extensive practical experience.
>
> The CCIE is probably worth more in the short term than a Masters Degree,
but
> you are correct that the Masters Degree does not devalue over time, which
> the CCIE will do, unless renewed.
>
> Why not go for both at once .. some universities are starting to combine
> masters degrees with ccie training.
>
> For example, see http://cs.acadiau.ca/seminars/previous/TerryHallet.html
>
> <detro...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8t6qkp$atd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Tom MacIntyre
<cmwe...@den.wantweb.net> wrote:
>The CCNP has all of the exam objectives that the CCIE does minus the 2-day
>lab requirement. Unless you plan on working for Cisco or one of their
>resellers there isn't much more value added in getting a CCIE.
There is something to that effect early in the Lammle CCNA 1.0 book.
Tom
>.
NoOneYouKnow
---JRE---
"michael champion" <mch...@home.com> wrote in message
news:HuQJ5.121346$g6.56...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
Brad Nixon
also am a CCNA and CCDA, working on CCNP and CCDP. I have a huge job
interview on Tuesday based on both my academic degree and my technical
certs. Personally, I am going to pursue my CCNP and CCIE now and put the PhD
on the backburner. I reasoned that the technical certs have more immediate
impact on my worth in the job market so I am pursuing those first. There is
just not enough time to pursue both at the same time. Good luck.
Brad Nixon
Director373
Remember that a degree will get you in the door better than a cert,
so do the:
1) degree first
2) then work on certs (the company you work for will more than likely
pay part or all the cost for you to get certs).
Brian Zeitz
promoted for the next 30 years.
thcol...@my-deja.com
"Brian Zeitz" <bri...@erols.com> wrote:
> CCIE BY FAR! If you have your B.S. that is good enought for to get you
> promoted for the next 30 years.
>
certs, is much better in the long run.
While a B.S. with a CCIE will be very beneficial, I think 30 years is a
bit long. Computing Theory and Math skills will last a lot longer than
Cisco IOS. In 10 years the current ios will probalbly be as obsolete
as the MS-DOS 3.3 that was around when I was taking Basic Computing in
university. However the digital electronics didn't change much.
It is a situation that varies from person to person, but it really
comes down to whether you feel that obtaining your Masters will teach
you more about basic theory. Masters and PhD are great if you want to
teach, or do research, but if you want to get out in the world and get
your hands dirty CCIE may be the way to go.
If you are anything like me, if you go the CCIE route you'll keep
telling yourself that you'll go back and get that Masters but you'll be
too busy learning how Cisco impliments the next new technology to ever
have enough time.
Faisal
Here is my thought about this topic.
Both are good. However, it is up to the individual to select which
direction they want to take their career. I am a techni person. I love
technology. I love to put hands on Cisco, Nortal IBM hardware and play
around with it. This is what CCIE does. I hate handling papers or dealing
with high level management folks who have no idea what technology is other
then that they need this done, so it should be done somehow. If you go the
following web site www.dal.ca/internetworking this university provides
Master Degree in Internetworking. I have talked to some of the people who
are taking this course. One of my student is also taking this course. Man,
I am telling you they know theory. They know it good. However, they are
really crap when it comes to hands one. They have no idea how to configure
a Catalyst switch, ATM modules etc. etc. All they know the theory behind
it. Do you think in 4 years, you have enough time to do labs on your own
time. No, because you are either busy working on a assignment or having
party in the pub. That is how the life is for most of the university
people. But degree will get you lots of places. Will also pay good and
give you higher position. But all those in long term. Where as CCIE, is
the ticket to your future for Networking.
For those who said, CCIE is a Cisco centric, well it may well be true but
Nortel also hire CCIE. Because a CCIE or CCNP is welll knowledgeable in
Network theory in 3 months to a year then a Master Degree who spent 4 years
learning 70% of the same thing. So all you have to know to work on Non
cisco equipment is learn the hardware. Rest of there in your head.
To me:
Master Degree: Jack of All trade, master of none (why they call it Master
Degree, I don't know. Phd, should be known as Master since they focus on
specific topic a lot)
CCIE, CCNP: Master of Networking.
To get to management level, it doesn't matter whether you have CCIE or
Master Degree, All you have to have is connection. You kiss the right
people, and you will some day become the president.
Good luck.
BTW: I am writting my CCIE and CCDP exam today in about 1 hour. So gotta
go.
Bye now.
Faisal Khan
ccnp, ccda, ccna, mcse, mct
<detro...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8t6qkp$atd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I have to make a big decison. I am trying to decide whether I should get
> my Masters Degree in Information Technology or attempt the CCIE lab. I
> dont have time for both because both will take the same time(about 1 1/2
> to 2 years). The masters degree focuses a lot on networking. It seems to
> me that the masters degree would do more for my career because there
> arent that many people in this field that have one and I will always
> have it and it can never be taken away from me. The CCIE certification
> can be taken away if you dont recertify and 10 years from now it could
> have no value(who knows). I know that a masters degree will always have
> value. I have a B.A. in Business Management and without that I would not
> have gotten the position I have because a bachelors is required for this
> job. Right now my degree has helped me more than certification. I am
> almost finished with the CCNP and it is no challenge for me. Which do
> you all think would have more value? CCIE with Experience or Masters in
> Information Technology with CCNP and CCDP and Experience?
> Thanks In Advance for any responses
>
> MED
>
>
Flatch U. Lence..
failure rate,) then you KNOW Cisco. This is not like any other
certification. Once again. You pass the lab, then you are truly an EXPERT in
Cisco. Period. There is no getting around it. I have a friend who has worked
for Cisco for 3 years. This guy eats drinks and sleeps Cisco. He is probably
close to genius level. And HE has failed the lab twice so far. Plus he gets
the best training for free.
My two cents: If you can pass the CCIE, you are looking at well over 100k
minimum, and that's in a low cost of living area. Once done, you can always
get a masters. I have a masters. It helps, but usually interviewers skim
over it and get to the certs and experience. Plus I'm assuming you have a
bachelors already. The interviewer isn't going to differentiate THAT MUCH
between the two degrees.
Definitely get the CCIE! It's the most coveted certification in the world.
Of course, all of this is IMO.
"michael champion" <mch...@home.com> wrote in message
news:HuQJ5.121346$g6.56...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
mgra...@my-deja.com
Hey Flatch,
I know it's off topic, but, after recognizing your name, I'll admit I'm
curious. You having your masters and all, do you consider yourself an
old fart or S.B.D.?
;-)
Richard Laval
<cmwe...@den.wantweb.net> wrote:
>The CCNP has all of the exam objectives that the CCIE does minus the 2-day
>lab requirement. Unless you plan on working for Cisco or one of their
>resellers there isn't much more value added in getting a CCIE.
Except the £20-30K a year increase in salary.
>.
><detro...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>news:8t6qkp$atd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> I have to make a big decison. I am trying to decide whether I should get
>> my Masters Degree in Information Technology or attempt the CCIE lab. I
>> dont have time for both because both will take the same time(about 1 1/2
Michael Lomker
income. I recently changed jobs and my recruiter has no problem getting
CCIE's 100-110k/yr. A CCNP/DP would be shooting for 70k here. Of course,
cost of living is low in the Midwest so YMMV.
Having a formal education is _always_ helpful in getting a technical
position, but I haven't even finished my bachelor's yet. It takes me a bit
longer to find a job, but your skill/experience is more critical than your
formal education in a technical position.
The real question hasn't been addressed....are you willing to make the
sacrifices required to have a $100k per year job? We're talking about 90%
travel, high stress, and seeing your family on holidays. Did I mention the
60-70 hour work weeks?
I've chosen to complete my formal education and work for less money for
quality-of-life reasons. I quit my consulting job and went to work for a
non-profit organization; each of you has to make that decision for yourself.
Michael Lomker
93...@mydeja.com wrote on 10/28/00 8:06 AM:
> I disagree. If you can pass the lab (last time I checked it was a 95%
> failure rate,) then you KNOW Cisco. This is not like any other
> certification.
I disagree with you on a number of points. Knowing the Cisco IOS and its
various commands is a small portion of lab. Most of it revolves around the
understanding of technologies and industry standard protocols: ISDN,
frame-relay, PPP, BGP, OSPF, ATM, VOIP, etc., etc. That knowledge is easily
translated into the command line differences in another brand of router...it
only took me a couple hours to master 3COM and Ascend equipment because I
already understood all of the industry standard theory.
The pass rate is extremely low for first time takers. The last I heard it
was 20% overall and rises to about 40% on the 3rd attempt; three attempts
before passing is not unusual. It is the difficulty of this exam that keeps
the end result valuable.
Some of the people attempting the exam are very uprepared and this skews the
statistics; I've been told that if you have your CCNP/DP it'll increase your
odds by 20%. Spend a few years working with Cisco equipment every day,
obtain your CCNP/DP, and then aggressively pursue the lab. Some people wake
up one morning and decide to become a CCIE...as if it were the
MCSE...doesn't work that way.
I did the NP/DP/IE written a year ago and I plan to wait another couple
years gaining experience before attempting the lab.
Michael Lomker
>> lab requirement. Unless you plan on working for Cisco or one of their
>> resellers there isn't much more value added in getting a CCIE.
>
> Except the £20-30K a year increase in salary.
Individual companies don't pay CCIE's much more than CCNP's. The poster
said if you aren't working for a reseller (or another firm that bills you
out at $200/hr) then they can't afford to pay you a six figure salary! He's
right, too. (I guess that'd be more like 80k pounds in the UK).
I've chosen not to pursue a CCIE right now because it would force me to stop
working for the small firms & non-profit organizations that I enjoy working
for....and go to a consulting firm that pays more but works you like a dog.
Why would I want to invest the time and money in a CCIE if it'd force me
into a type of job that I don't want (or pay the same where I'm at)? That's
why I've decided to pursue an MBA for now, instead.
Theo Wegel
>My two cents: If you can pass the CCIE, you are looking at well over 100k
>minimum, and that's in a low cost of living area. Once done, you can always
>get a masters. I have a masters. It helps, but usually interviewers skim
>over it and get to the certs and experience. Plus I'm assuming you have a
>bachelors already. The interviewer isn't going to differentiate THAT MUCH
>between the two degrees.
You're assuming that you'll have the time and energy to get a Master's while
holding down that CCIE job. (I'm assuming something like an MSEE and not a
MA in Art History or the like). 100k+ sounds like a lot until you divide it
by the number of hours you'll be working.
In my experience (I have two masters), a graduate degree generally doesn't
help you get a job, but NOT having one may lock you out of a number of jobs.
As for whether the interviewer differentiates b/w a BS and MS, it depends
partly on the job, but also on the interviewer's own background. As I'm
sure you know, there is a substantial difference b/w the amount of work
required to get an MS vs. a BS.
I originally planned to do the CCIE but stopped after the CCNP/CCDP for two
reasons:
1) The time and energy required to make that extra (big) step wouldn't have
made a real difference in the job I have now (which I enjoy), i.e. it failed
the cost-benefit analysis test.
2) Beyond the CCNP/CCDP, most of the knowledge is Cisco- and IOS-specific.
I recall when a CNE was a license to print money, and now it's the laughing
stock of certifications. I'm not saying that Cisco is going to be another
Novell, but I wouldn't base my future career on a product certification.
Ciao
detro...@my-deja.com
want to base my career on a particular product. Thats why Ive decided
to go for a Masters Degree instead of the CCIE and I will defintely
finish my path toward the CCNP and CCDP.
Med
In article <7n_K5.8478$G95.2...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>,
Michael Seals
Unless you are planning on going into management, the MS will not be all
that important. Dont get me wrong, its a great achievement and whatnot, but
when people are looking for technical workers, they often just 'make a note'
that a degree was obtained, and assume that the majority of what was learned
in college is irrelevent to the 'real world'.
You make some valid points about the CCIE and its potential relevence in the
future. What you really want to ask yourself is what your goals are. If
your goal is to bust deep into a six figure salery SOON, then the CCIE is
the way to go. I dont know of a single CCIE who is making under six figures
(granted, I only know 3 well enough to ask them what they make!). I DO know
several people with masters degrees who are making in the $50k to $60k a
year range....
detro...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I have to make a big decison. I am trying to decide whether I should get
> my Masters Degree in Information Technology or attempt the CCIE lab. I
> dont have time for both because both will take the same time(about 1 1/2
> to 2 years). The masters degree focuses a lot on networking. It seems to
> me that the masters degree would do more for my career because there
> arent that many people in this field that have one and I will always
> have it and it can never be taken away from me. The CCIE certification
> can be taken away if you dont recertify and 10 years from now it could
> have no value(who knows). I know that a masters degree will always have
> value. I have a B.A. in Business Management and without that I would not
> have gotten the position I have because a bachelors is required for this
> job. Right now my degree has helped me more than certification. I am
> almost finished with the CCNP and it is no challenge for me. Which do
> you all think would have more value? CCIE with Experience or Masters in
> Information Technology with CCNP and CCDP and Experience?
> Thanks In Advance for any responses
>
> MED
>
detro...@my-deja.com
certified and do they have years of experience working on Cisco
Products or are they in another field?
In article <39F6FA44...@in.net>,
Dave Hirsh
a job search on "CCIE written". I was amazed at the number of jobs offered
if a person just passed the CCIE written alone. I guess these companies
think that they can get a CCIE candidate cheaper and then pay for their lab.
Not a bad approach actually.
Michael Lomker
> think that they can get a CCIE candidate cheaper and then pay for their lab.
> Not a bad approach actually.
Actually, many companies do this to prove that a candidate has the mental
resources to get through the theory. They figure if you get through the
theory then they can provide you with the hands-on training and resources to
get you certified the rest of the way.
Theo Wegel
year (I used to be one in a previous life).
Speaking with some small amount of experience (networking professional with
two graduate degrees), I would say that although having, say, an MSEE or MBA
will not necessarily GET you a job, lack of one can definitely PREVENT you
from getting certain jobs, especially design and systems architecture-type
jobs (just read the want ads). A Master's also doesn't confine you to doing
one thing or one product line the way some product certs can. I remember
when a Novell CNE was a license to print money and how much is that worth
now? (compared to even an undergraduate degree).
A Master's also means you can do the math and figure out (in dollars/hour)
whether or not the "six-figure CCIE salary" is really worth it, especially
after all the time and money you have to invest in getting it (at least
equal to grad school). Call me old-fashioned, but I'd much rather work a 40
hour week for $50K than an 80 hour week for $100K.
Besides, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Spend a couple of years getting
the Master's and then see if the CCIE is still all that it's cracked up to
be in terms of a ticket to instant wealth.
Ciao
Michael Seals wrote in message <39F6FA44...@in.net>...
Michael Seals
point was that a masters degree is not an automatic 'in' to a high paying
job, where a CCIE (right now) is an automatic in.
I dont know what other peoples experiences are, but having a CCNP and 'years
of experience' equates to good $$$. Adding a MS on top of that doesnt
command any more $$$....
detro...@my-deja.com
fact that it does not confine you to doing one type of thing.You have
more overall knowledge than just someone who has no degree and just a
ccie.
Another thing that I have noticed is that the more people enter into a
particular computer field the more strict the employer can be in who he
wants to hire.For example if you were interviewing two ccie's and one
just had a ccie and the other had a ccie plus he had a masters degree.
If they both had around the same amount of experience you defintely
would have to give a big big big advantage to the ccie with the degree.
MED
In article <8lZL5.15938$G95.4...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>,
detro...@my-deja.com
more dollars. It would command more dollars because you have the
advantage over other workers and it gives you better opportunity to get
jobs that you could not get without the degree. What would you rather
hire a MCSE without a degree and experience or an MCSE with a degree and
experience. The advantage defitely goes to the MCSE with a degree.
In article <3A00741E...@in.net>,
dave
<detro...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8tq45s$mmg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> You are wrong about the fact that a Masters degree would not command
> more dollars. It would command more dollars because you have the
> advantage over other workers and it gives you better opportunity to get
> jobs that you could not get without the degree. What would you rather
> hire a MCSE without a degree and experience or an MCSE with a degree and
> experience. The advantage defitely goes to the MCSE with a degree.
in my experience, the evaluation of potential employees usually goes in this
order:
1. Good Real World Experience
2. Personality/Impression of candidate (personable, knowledgeable - seems to
be a team player)
3. Certification
4. Degree
I know that I have worked in a couple of IS departments where a college
degree (AS even) was the exception, not the norm. Most of the people with
degrees were stuck in entry level jobs and never moved up. Many of the ones
with degrees seemed to be the ones who could write a good resume, pick up a
cert that they didn't really understand and through around terminoligy well
enough to get past HR. When it came down to doing the planning, being
innovative and thinking outside the box - the degreed usually fell behind.
Daniel Conlin
generally most strikingly unequal between candidates is
personality/presentation. It's also one of the most important factors in
deciding on a candidate. It's easy to quantify degrees, certs, experience (a
little less so, but still quantifiable). Personality and presentation skills
are more often than not the deciding factor.
Though I hear they've got braindumps and cheat sheets for that "personality"
thing now. I'm working on getting a "paper" one myself. :)
<detro...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8tq3sq$mam$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Michael Seals
commands more than a MCSE without a degree OR experience. But with equal
levels of experience (say 4 years), the MS degree doesnt amount to a bonus
$$$-wise. This is even more true when you move from the MCSE arena to the
CCNP arena.
One thing to keep in mind though (and I've said it before) is that a masters
degree will stay with you your whole life. A certification expires or gets
to be useless after a few years. Live by the certification, die by the
certification.
MTS
Michael Lomker
> 2. Personality/Impression of candidate (personable, knowledgeable - seems to
> be a team player)
> 3. Certification
> 4. Degree
That's an interesting list. I would say that you need a mix of certs and
experience to even get an interview...after that the other factors are
weighed together to get the result. I know that my boss had to fight a bit
with HR regarding my lack of a BS degree....I'm plugging away at that, but
it isn't very relevant.
--
Michael Lomker
MCSE+I, MCNE, CCNP/DP
seatt...@my-deja.com
I have an MCSE, and one semester of college. But I also bring 5 years
of experience with Enterprise Class networks, not little mom and pop
networks. BIG ONES. Yes, I find that people over look me for jobs
that I'm perfectly qualifed for because I lack the college degree,
however I have found that most of these companies lack technical
judgement which is a symptom of a strugguling or unititiated I.T.
department. Their oversight actually does me a favor.
I started a job recently making $75K a year, and I don't have a college
degree. At this point, a college degree continues to be a stupid
business decision. All the theory I would learn in college I pick up
hands on and in books... many times the same books that you use in
college, the diffrence is I read them under my own structures and rules
rather than those set by a professor, though I realize that many people
lack this type of self discipline and are reliant on being led by the
nose if they are to learn anything. (RTFM... and this includes text
books!)
The company I work for now is a major player in the IT world, if not
the largest. And I have found the more a company is trully in touch
with Technology, the less they care about degrees when it comes to
technical positions. (I won't say any names, but think blue)
I would also have to say someone's salary is a function of your
experience, training, and the amount of successful self marketing you
can accomplish. A company will pay the least amount they need to keep
you happy and in thier rooster so long as your providing a function.
Thats why salary's for equally educated and experienced people can vary
up to 50% in the same department, and it matters not if you have a
degree!
In article <8tq45s$mmg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
seatt...@my-deja.com
Stephens, Richard
list you probably need to go back to school yourself.
Daniel Conlin
a degree in English.
<seatt...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8ukbf6$hf5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
seatt...@my-deja.com
just to have a degree, not that I would pass with flying colors or be
the top of the class but I would exit having a little piece of
parchment saying I went for four years.
Why would you think I'm a dreamer? Because I do the math and realize
that a college degree at this point doesn't make sense for any time in
the immediate future? Is there something else that would make you
think this?
I'm all for getting the degree or any certification, but I disagree
that a degree or certification will insure any level of income.
However the certifications, although as suggested earlier in this
thread may be temporary (i.e CNE's are near worthless today), the CCIE
offers an assurance to an employer of a certain amount of compentency,
and therefore at this point assures the candidate a elegant
compensation. Degree's don't tend to do that, however they do show
that you have the self discipline to complete the degree.
I would also have to agree that a degree will help in advancing in a
company to Management positions. Or even team lad positions, however
for purely technical positions, most companies don't care.
In article <djtP5.3019$Nw6....@news.iol.ie>,
seatt...@my-deja.com
I might be tottaly off base here, I frequently am, however I have to
agree with you, I have the same situation, HR throws a fit
about no BS degree, and I too am plugging away at that, however people
who do have degrees may get in the door, but they don't seem to last
because they tend to lack #1 and #2 on your list. Some one else in
this thread replied that you shouldn't place a certification above a
degree. I think that you like me know that the degrees mean very
little in the tech world other than when you want to go for management
or something other than purely technical, and you like myself, have
seen how little effect it has on one's income in a technical field to
not have a degree when we see people with degrees making half what we
make.
Is it not fair if you have a degree to be making half what a drippy
nose high school graduate with 5 years+ experience and 4+ major
industry
certifications? It depends if your the degree holder or the high
school graduate. I've done an informal tracking of responses to people
finding out I don't have a college degree and find out what about I
make, and the people who tend to get the most upset are those who have
college degrees and are struggling financially.
The truly successful tend to encourage you to get the degree, however
have come to realize that of everything they learned on college, very
little of the curriculum they use today, and the experiences they
learned in college of how to get along with people and how to be self-
disciplined are more important. They also tend to realize that college
is not the only place to learn that.
Perhaps there is another reason for that other respondent disagreeing
with your list. And of course, I could be totally of base here, I
frequently am. However I will have to agree with your list, after a
point, the certifications + experience + personality surpass the value
of a degree... any degree.
As a society we might place too much value in a degree that can only
measure so much. Degrees are a poor measure of personailty, ambition,
or self-discpline. If they were, then everyone with a degree would be
personable, ambitious, and self-discplined. A quick survey would show
that all degree holders are not automatically all of the above.
IMHO,
Seattle911
In article <B628ED7A.3762%mlo...@pbway.com>,
Michael Lomker <mlo...@pbway.com> wrote:
> > 1. Good Real World Experience
> > 2. Personality/Impression of candidate (personable, knowledgeable -
seems to
> > be a team player)
> > 3. Certification
> > 4. Degree
>
> That's an interesting list. I would say that you need a mix of certs
and
> experience to even get an interview...after that the other factors are
> weighed together to get the result. I know that my boss had to fight
a bit
> with HR regarding my lack of a BS degree....I'm plugging away at
that, but
> it isn't very relevant.
>
> --
> Michael Lomker
> MCSE+I, MCNE, CCNP/DP
>
>
fred
IT'S ALL ABOUT PRIDE AND RESPECT !!!!!!!!!!!!
My unsolicited opinion.
<seatt...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8ukbem$hf2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
seatt...@my-deja.com
In article <FQ1S5.4115$f8.7...@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>,
skingdon
not the Japanese part anyway. But, remember, 2/3 of all BAs are the same.
English, math, science, history. These are the things companies are really
looking for. Even then, they are not looking for your ability to spout
history. Just like learning history and other seemingly ridiculous topics in
high school seemed stupid at the time, in the end it expanded our
understanding of how the world is put together. In college we simply carry
that understanding one level further. There are plenty of intelligent people
that can learn this stuff on there own. College also teaches you how to
study and take orders. You learn how to do things you do not want to do.
After graduating, I realized I needed more. One year ago I began actively
studying networks. MCSE came and now I dream of someday having the honor of
spouting a Cisco cert. After 3 years of giving up on Japanese and a year of
focusing on networking, a company contacted me wanting to know if I knew
Japanese. Well, YES! This was no small company. I am now a software tester
for international versions of our software. They were interested because I
knew Japanese and had my foot in the door with technology. Cool. So that
last 1/3 of my degree did help in the end.
Degrees and certs are not really the same. A cert is more like ITT or some
other technical school degree. Its just additional training. If you
graduated with a BS in Computer Science, companies would still like to see
you carrying a cert. The best path is not BA/BA OR cert. It is which
combination of the two is most solid. If you really want to do it right, get
a BA/BS in the field of your choice. Take a few computer classes for your
electives. Then start grabbing certs. The BA/BS gives you background and the
cert gives you focus. This shows diversity in your learning as well. This is
good.
Scott
Jimmie
>I have to disagree. You are correct that MCSE w/ experience AND a
>degree commands more than a MCSE without a degree OR experience. But
>with equal levels of experience (say 4 years), the MS degree doesnt
>amount to a bonus $$$-wise. This is even more true when you move from
>the MCSE arena to the CCNP arena.
>
>One thing to keep in mind though (and I've said it before) is that a
>masters degree will stay with you your whole life. A certification
>expires or gets to be useless after a few years. Live by the
>certification, die by the certification.
>
>MTS
>
But in this marketplace, can you can live and die by the Cert. But can you
live with the Degree? If you are planning on moving in to other areas
later in life a degree might be a good road, but if you are going to stay
"in the trenches" so to speak, won't the certifications and experience hold
truer to your objectives? I guess if you want out of the pit get the
degree and go upstairs, if you are gonna stay hands on, I would suppose the
certification and experience is the key. I would like to say that this
thread has been very civil and the arguments both for and against have made
very valid points. I wish all discussions were as this one. =)
Jimmie Needles
dude
that he feels that way. I gave up on school to study Cisco about a year
ago. I got my CCNP in about six months and then immediately passed my CCIE
written. I spent an average of 5-6 hours a day studying with no instructor
to help me. I forced my way into getting my hands on routers and switches at
work. As soon as I got my CCNP I got a job for $78K where I am handling
6506s and 7513s on a daily basis for customers and working with OSPF and BGP
in real production environments, plus configuring in our lab to my heart's
content. My CCIE lab exam is scheduled for January 22 and the CCIE at Cisco
that works with our Channel Account Manager to help us on technical issues
says that I'm just about ready. My company is talking in the $115 range
when I pass the lab. It will only go up from there. In addition, the
exposure that I am getting has allowed my to implement Checkpoint and now
Alcatel solutions and learn VPN. I am glad that you probably think I am
stupid for wasting my time when I could learn all of that valuable Masters
information. That means that you won't climb on board and lower my salary.
BTW, I've done college and the CCIE self-study, and the CCIE was much more
demanding. It required a ton of motivation and endless studying and problem
solving. Please, kids, stay in school. Don't waste your time on this
worthless certification.
<mgra...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8tfv38$j4g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <Q4BK5.1164$Qs4.2...@nnrp1.sbc.net>,
> "Flatch U. Lence.." <93...@mydeja.com> wrote:
> > I disagree. If you can pass the lab (last time I checked it was a 95%
> > failure rate,) then you KNOW Cisco. This is not like any other
> > certification. Once again. You pass the lab, then you are truly an
> EXPERT in
> > Cisco. Period. There is no getting around it. I have a friend who has
> worked
> > for Cisco for 3 years. This guy eats drinks and sleeps Cisco. He is
> probably
> > close to genius level. And HE has failed the lab twice so far. Plus
> he gets
> > the best training for free.
> >
> > My two cents: If you can pass the CCIE, you are looking at well over
> 100k
> > minimum, and that's in a low cost of living area. Once done, you can
> always
> > get a masters. I have a masters. It helps, but usually interviewers
> skim
> > over it and get to the certs and experience. Plus I'm assuming you
> have a
> > bachelors already. The interviewer isn't going to differentiate THAT
> MUCH
> > between the two degrees.
> >
> > Definitely get the CCIE! It's the most coveted certification in the
> world.
> >
> > Of course, all of this is IMO.
> >
> > "michael champion" <mch...@home.com> wrote in message
> > news:HuQJ5.121346$g6.56...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
> > > I have read enough of this nonsense, and I can no longer just sit
> back and
> > > ignore this thread. A Cisco CCNP or even CCIE shows that you are
> > > well-grounded in Cisco products and technology, period. A Master's
> degree
> > in
> > > EE or Computer Science implies that you have had over 120 hours of
> course
> > > study in a rigorous and well-organized study program over an
> average of 4
> > > years that includes Engineering Mechanics, Physics, hands-on
> electronic
> > > laboratories, electrical engineering or computer science theory,
> class
> > > projects which you are graded on, advanced mathematics, etc. Just
> about
> > > every company that I see in local job fairs REQUIRE a college
> degree in
> > > computer science, electrical engineering, or some related discipline
> > before
> > > they will even discuss with you a technical position; their idea of
> > > equivalent experience would be 8-10 years heavily involved in
> directly
> > > supporting a huge network.
> > >
> > > When I say get a degree, I mean a BSEE or an MSEE. It will pay
> dividends
> > > down the road. Don't buy into the CCIE hype. Unless you have years
> of
> > > experience to back it up even with that cert you will find it
> difficult to
> > > be given an advanced networking opportunity with a commensurate
> salary.
> > The
> > > CCIE lab gives you an opportunity to prove your skills and
> knowledge of
> > > mainly Cisco products. However, not every company in the world has
> gone a
> > > purely Cisco route, and your Cisco knowledge won't mean squat if
> you are
> > > having to work with non-Cisco equipment (all of the IOS commands
> that you
> > > learned to take advantage of some proprietary Cisco feature will be
> > > useless).
> > >
> > > My advice? Get an MSEE with a minor in IT (if available) or computer
> > > science, learn as much as you can about how Unix internally works,
> and,
> > > while attending the university, see if you can get some hands-on
> > experience
> > > with the school's network (which probably is Cisco-based with Unix
> > servers).
> > > If the CCNP is not a challenge for you then try partial differential
> > > equations, calculus on manifolds, quantum mechanics, tensor
> analysis, etc.
> > > while you are earning your degree. By no stretch of the imagination
> is a
> > > Cisco cert of any type equivalent to a college education in a
> technical
> > > field.
> > >
> > > JMHO
> > >
> > > MLC CCNP 2.0 MSEE et al
> > >
> > > Peter Retief <pre...@nospam.mweb.co.za> wrote in message
> > > news:8t78up$8qk$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> > > > Do not assume that because the CCNP is no challenge for you that
> the
> > CCIE
> > > is
> > > > the same .. the CCNP is just a series of computer-based exams, as
> is the
> > > > CCIE entry test. The CCIE lab is a much tougher proposition, and
> cannot
> > > be
> > > > passed without extensive practical experience.
> > > >
> > > > The CCIE is probably worth more in the short term than a Masters
> Degree,
> > > but
> > > > you are correct that the Masters Degree does not devalue over
> time,
> > which
> > > > the CCIE will do, unless renewed.
> > > >
> > > > Why not go for both at once .. some universities are starting to
> combine
> >
> > > > masters degrees with ccie training.
> > > >
> > > > For example, see
> http://cs.acadiau.ca/seminars/previous/TerryHallet.html
> > > >
> > > > <detro...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:8t6qkp$atd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > > > I have to make a big decison. I am trying to decide whether I
> should
> > get
> > > > > my Masters Degree in Information Technology or attempt the CCIE
> lab. I
> > > > > dont have time for both because both will take the same time
> (about 1
> > 1/2
> > > > > to 2 years). The masters degree focuses a lot on networking. It
> seems
> > to
> > > > > me that the masters degree would do more for my career because
> there
> > > > > arent that many people in this field that have one and I will
> always
> > > > > have it and it can never be taken away from me. The CCIE
> certification
> > > > > can be taken away if you dont recertify and 10 years from now
> it could
> > > > > have no value(who knows). I know that a masters degree will
> always
> > have
> > > > > value. I have a B.A. in Business Management and without that I
> would
> > not
> > > > > have gotten the position I have because a bachelors is required
> for
> > this
> > > > > job. Right now my degree has helped me more than
> certification. I am
> > > > > almost finished with the CCNP and it is no challenge for me.
> Which do
> > > > > you all think would have more value? CCIE with Experience or
> Masters
> > in
> > > > > Information Technology with CCNP and CCDP and Experience?
> > > > > Thanks In Advance for any responses
> > > > >
> > > > > MED
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > > > > Before you buy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> Hey Flatch,
> I know it's off topic, but, after recognizing your name, I'll admit I'm
> curious. You having your masters and all, do you consider yourself an
> old fart or S.B.D.?
> ;-)
Chris Hinners
For me, I am not going to get all stressed out about it....if I go for CCIE,
it'll be because I want to, not for the coin. I run a bunch of GSRs & 75xxs
myself. I do it cuz it's a gas. I work at home, mostly when I feel like it
if nothing's broke. CCNP may be as far as I go. Work is stunned that I even
want to take exams. Consulting? Too much stress for me....I've got a '57
Strat that needs a lot of exercise. It's about quality of life....if you
live for tweaking & configuring or have to climb the mountain just cuz its
there, do it!
Cheers!
Chris Hinners, MCSE+I, CCNA, CNA
"dude" <ma...@bbnow.net> wrote in message
news:fTmoSCc...@typhoon.i3s.net...
Fraser
Masters in CS vs what a CCIE knows.... CCIE's are the gods of Cisco... you
cant study your way into a CCIE postions... the lab part takes care of that
..... AND of course it is going to be easy if you have a BSEE or something
along that lines.... but there being less than 5000 CCIE's in the world
makes it a valuable thing...and ANY Telco would die to have CCIE on
staff.... becuase you cant keep a Silver PartnerShip with Cisco with out
one.... so you are foolish if you think getting your CCIE is not useful....
because all you need to get in with is a new start up company that has not
yet gone public with some stocks options.... and has huge potential ..then
your CCIe will truely pay off Dividends in the end ......
detro...@my-deja.com
could easily have minimal value. All you are certified on is cisco.
Nothing else and you have to recertify to stay current, they can change
there recert policy at any time. Any vendor can take part ofthe business
and then the certification is nothing. Look at novell. Cisco wasnt even
really around 10 years ago.Masters in CS is defintely more valuable than
ccie.No doubt about it
In article <v%9V5.1489$Mb.2...@sodalite.nbnet.nb.ca>,
detro...@my-deja.com
Anybody that believes your story has to be stupid. So after 6month to a
year of experience you make 80K, Yea right. Even if this was a true
story all you are skilled on is cisco. Say if 3 years from know you want
to move into management you wont be able to because of no degree. Say if
cisco is not the big vendor 5 years from now. What will you do then? All
you are doing is making a vertical leap in one area. You cant do but one
thing. With a CCIE cisco owns what you have and they can take it away
from you anytime they feel like it.So the move you have made is good
temporary and bad for the long term.There are CCIEs that cant get
management positions because they have no degree.
In article <fTmoSCc...@typhoon.i3s.net>,
detro...@my-deja.com
california equates to about 60k in the midwest.I guess the point I was
trying to make is that it is best to go for both certification and a
degree because when this industry gets flooded with engineers it will
make you stand out more by having a degree and get certain jobs.
In article <3A256EC6...@globix.net>,
Keith Huggins <khug...@globix.net> wrote:
> <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
> <html>
> First let me start with saying that I mean no disrespect with what im
about
> to say.
> <p>For anyone to be so closed minded and to think that because it
didnt
> happen to them or in there
> <br>area, that its imposible is even more stupid.
> <p>For this person to be making 80K after a year of experience is
verry
> possible where
> <br>I come from (Bay Area California). For Example I am
currently
> at my first Networking
> <br>position, and I started making 65k this is without my CCNA.
After
> getting my
> <br>CCNA i recieved a raise to a little more than 68k. I am also
> talking with management
> <br>and attempting to move to a Network Engineer position which will
probably
> put me close
> <br>to 80k, at least in the 70s. I have only been here for 3
months.
> I dont have my CCNP yet and almost at that
> <br>level of pay. Now as for your other comments.
> <p>Management is still a possibility, especially if you stay with a
certain
> company for a long
> <br>time. (3 years being more than enough) I have seen it done
time
> and time again.
> <p>Anyone who has been in the industry for any amount of time knows
that
> it is moving in a
> <br>verry rapid pace and to stay employed we have to keep up with
it.
> Granted Cisco might
> <br>not be here in 5 years (I think they will, but for the sake of
argument),
> anywone who is
> <br>in the routing or switching is going to have to evolve, same with
anyother
> flavor of networking.
> <br>For Example, Novell used to be huge, but Microsoft slowly but
shurly
> took over, so people had
> <br>to recert if they wanted and relearn to stay up on pace, or got
left
> behind.
> <br>This person might stick with CCIE and thats all even after change,
> at which case your right
> <br>he will fall behind, but chances are he will work towards the new
goal.
> To sit there and think
> <br>that just because he is only certed in Cisco, that must mean that
he
> will stay that way for the
> <br>next 5 years is even more close minded than before.
> <br>I believe he found something he enjoys and took it to the extreme.
> BTW Congrats Dude.
> <p>Granted the more you know the better you are, I believe that truly,
> but on the other hand you
> <br>start thinning yourself thin, before you know it all you are doing
> is recerting every year on something.
> <br>and if you are doing this, then you cant know the key areas of
your
> particular position as good.
> <br>Also, its getting to that point where employers are wanting the
person
> who is the "expert" on this
> <br>particular area.
> <p>As Ive said in previous postings, this is all relitive to your
enviroment,
> you may be living in a area
> <br>where a network engineer makes a max of 50k (just like on
leapit.com)
> where i come from,
> <br>there doesnt seem to be a limit at this time.
> <p>Finally DUH cisco can take it away so can Microsoft, Novell,
Comptia,
> and any other certification.
> <p>Again no disrespect was inteaded if any was done. (and i truly mean
> that)
> <p>Just my 2 coppers
> <br>Keith Huggins
> <br>
> <br>
> <p>detro...@my-deja.com wrote:
> <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Hey Dude
> <p>Anybody that believes your story has to be stupid. So after 6month
to
> a
> <br>year of experience you make 80K, Yea right. Even if this was a
true
> <br>story all you are skilled on is cisco. Say if 3 years from know
you
> want
> <br>to move into management you wont be able to because of no degree.
Say
> if
> <br>cisco is not the big vendor 5 years from now. What will you do
then?
> All
> <br>you are doing is making a vertical leap in one area. You cant do
but
> one
> <br>thing. With a CCIE cisco owns what you have and they can take it
away
> <br>from you anytime they feel like it.So the move you have made is
good
> <br>temporary and bad for the long term.There are CCIEs that cant get
> <br>management positions because they have no degree.
> <p>In article <fTmoSCc...@typhoon.i3s.net>,
> <br> "dude" <ma...@bbnow.net> wrote:
> <br>> Whoever the guy is that says not to bother with the CCIE "hype",
> I'm
> <br>glad
> <br>> that he feels that way. I gave up on school to study Cisco
> about a
> <br>year
> <br>> ago. I got my CCNP in about six months and then
immediately
> passed my
> <br>CCIE
> <br>> written. I spent an average of 5-6 hours a day studying
with
> no
> <br>instructor
> <br>> to help me. I forced my way into getting my hands on routers and
> <br>switches at
> <br>> work. As soon as I got my CCNP I got a job for $78K where I am
> <br>handling
> <br>> 6506s and 7513s on a daily basis for customers and working with
OSPF
> <br>and BGP
> <br>> in real production environments, plus configuring in our lab to
my
> <br>heart's
> <br>> content. My CCIE lab exam is scheduled for January 22 and the
CCIE
> at
> <br>Cisco
> <br>> that works with our Channel Account Manager to help us on
technical
> <br>issues
> <br>> says that I'm just about ready. My company is talking in
the
> $115
> <br>range
> <br>> when I pass the lab. It will only go up from there.
In
> addition, the
> <br>> exposure that I am getting has allowed my to implement
Checkpoint
> and
> <br>now
> <br>> Alcatel solutions and learn VPN. I am glad that you
probably
> think I
> <br>am
> <br>> stupid for wasting my time when I could learn all of that
valuable
> <br>Masters
> <br>> information. That means that you won't climb on board and
lower
> my
> <br>salary.
> <br>> BTW, I've done college and the CCIE self-study, and the CCIE was
> much
> <br>more
> <br>> demanding. It required a ton of motivation and endless
studying
> and
> <br>problem
> <br>> solving. Please, kids, stay in school. Don't waste
your
> time on this
> <br>> worthless certification.
> <br>>
> <br>> <mgra...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> <br><a
href="news:8tfv38$j4g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com">news:8tfv38$j4g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com
</a>...
> <br>> > In article <Q4BK5.1164$Qs4.2...@nnrp1.sbc.net>,
> <br>> > "Flatch U. Lence.." <93...@mydeja.com> wrote:
> <br>> > > I disagree. If you can pass the lab (last time I checked it
was
> a
> <br>95%
> <br>> > > failure rate,) then you KNOW Cisco. This is not like any
other
> <br>> > > certification. Once again. You pass the lab, then you are
truly
> an
> <br>> > EXPERT in
> <br>> > > Cisco. Period. There is no getting around it. I have a
friend
> who
> <br>has
> <br>> > worked
> <br>> > > for Cisco for 3 years. This guy eats drinks and sleeps
Cisco.
> He
> <br>is
> <br>> > probably
> <br>> > > close to genius level. And HE has failed the lab twice so
far.
> <br>Plus
> <br>> > he gets
> <br>> > > the best training for free.
> <br>> > >
> <br>> > > My two cents: If you can pass the CCIE, you are looking at
well
> <br>over
> <br>> > 100k
> <br>> > > minimum, and that's in a low cost of living area. Once done,
> you
> <br>can
> <br>> > always
> <br>> > > get a masters. I have a masters. It helps, but usually
> <br>interviewers
> <br>> > skim
> <br>> > > over it and get to the certs and experience. Plus I'm
assuming
> you
> <br>> > have a
> <br>> > > bachelors already. The interviewer isn't going to
differentiate
> <br>THAT
> <br>> > MUCH
> <br>> > > between the two degrees.
> <br>> > >
> <br>> > > Definitely get the CCIE! It's the most coveted certification
> in
> <br>the
> <br>> > world.
> <br>> > >
> <br>> > > Of course, all of this is IMO.
> <br>> > >
> <br>> > > "michael champion" <mch...@home.com> wrote in message
> <br>> > > <a
href="news:HuQJ5.121346$g6.56...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com">news:HuQJ5.1
21346$g6.56...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com</a>...
> <br>> > > > I have read enough of this nonsense, and I can no longer
just
> <br>sit
> <br>> > back and
> <br>> > > > ignore this thread. A Cisco CCNP or even CCIE shows that
you
> are
> <br>> > > > well-grounded in Cisco products and technology, period. A
> <br>Master's
> <br>> > degree
> <br>> > > in
> <br>> > > > EE or Computer Science implies that you have had over 120
hours
> <br>of
> <br>> > course
> <br>> > > > study in a rigorous and well-organized study program over
an
> <br>> > average of 4
> <br>> > > > years that includes Engineering Mechanics, Physics,
hands-on
> <br>> > electronic
> <br>> > > > laboratories, electrical engineering or computer science
theory,
> <br>> > class
> <br>> > > > projects which you are graded on, advanced mathematics,
etc.
> <br>Just
> <br>> > about
> <br>> > > > every company that I see in local job fairs REQUIRE a
college
> <br>> > degree in
> <br>> > > > computer science, electrical engineering, or some related
> <br>discipline
> <br>> > > before
> <br>> > > > they will even discuss with you a technical position;
their
> idea
> <br>of
> <br>> > > > equivalent experience would be 8-10 years heavily involved
> in
> <br>> > directly
> <br>> > > > supporting a huge network.
> <br>> > > >
> <br>> > > > When I say get a degree, I mean a BSEE or an MSEE. It will
> pay
> <br>> > dividends
> <br>> > > > down the road. Don't buy into the CCIE hype. Unless you
have
> <br>years
> <br>> > of
> <br>> > > > experience to back it up even with that cert you will find
> it
> <br>> > difficult to
> <br>> > > > be given an advanced networking opportunity with a
commensurate
> <br>> > salary.
> <br>> > > The
> <br>> > > > CCIE lab gives you an opportunity to prove your skills and
> <br>> > knowledge of
> <br>> > > > mainly Cisco products. However, not every company in the
world
> <br>has
> <br>> > gone a
> <br>> > > > purely Cisco route, and your Cisco knowledge won't mean
squat
> if
> <br>> > you are
> <br>> > > > having to work with non-Cisco equipment (all of the IOS
commands
> <br>> > that you
> <br>> > > > learned to take advantage of some proprietary Cisco
feature
> will
> <br>be
> <br>> > > > useless).
> <br>> > > >
> <br>> > > > My advice? Get an MSEE with a minor in IT (if available)
or
> <br>computer
> <br>> > > > science, learn as much as you can about how Unix
internally
> <br>works,
> <br>> > and,
> <br>> > > > while attending the university, see if you can get some
hands-on
> <br>> > > experience
> <br>> > > > with the school's network (which probably is Cisco-based
with
> <br>Unix
> <br>> > > servers).
> <br>> > > > If the CCNP is not a challenge for you then try partial
> <br>differential
> <br>> > > > equations, calculus on manifolds, quantum mechanics,
tensor
> <br>> > analysis, etc.
> <br>> > > > while you are earning your degree. By no stretch of the
> <br>imagination
> <br>> > is a
> <br>> > > > Cisco cert of any type equivalent to a college education
in
> a
> <br>> > technical
> <br>> > > > field.
> <br>> > > >
> <br>> > > > JMHO
> <br>> > > >
> <br>> > > > MLC CCNP 2.0
MSEE
> et al
> <br>> > > >
> <br>> > > > Peter Retief <pre...@nospam.mweb.co.za> wrote in
message
> <br>> > > > <a
href="news:8t78up$8qk$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net">news:8t78up$8qk$1@ctb-nnrp2.
saix.net</a>...
> <br>> > > > > Do not assume that because the CCNP is no challenge for
you
> <br>that
> <br>> > the
> <br>> > > CCIE
> <br>> > > > is
> <br>> > > > > the same .. the CCNP is just a series of computer-based
exams,
> <br>as
> <br>> > is the
> <br>> > > > > CCIE entry test. The CCIE lab is a much tougher
proposition,
> <br>and
> <br>> > cannot
> <br>> > > > be
> <br>> > > > > passed without extensive practical experience.
> <br>> > > > >
> <br>> > > > > The CCIE is probably worth more in the short term than a
> <br>Masters
> <br>> > Degree,
> <br>> > > > but
> <br>> > > > > you are correct that the Masters Degree does not devalue
> over
> <br>> > time,
> <br>> > > which
> <br>> > > > > the CCIE will do, unless renewed.
> <br>> > > > >
> <br>> > > > > Why not go for both at once .. some universities are
starting
> <br>to
> <br>> > combine
> <br>> > >
> <br>> > > > > masters degrees with ccie training.
> <br>> > > > >
> <br>> > > > > For example, see
> <br>> > <a
href="http://cs.acadiau.ca/seminars/previous/TerryHallet.html">http://cs
.acadiau.ca/seminars/previous/TerryHallet.html</a>
> <br>> > > > >
> <br>> > > > > <detro...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> <br>> > > > > <a
href="news:8t6qkp$atd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com">news:8t6qkp$atd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com
</a>...
> <br>> > > > > > I have to make a big decison. I am trying to decide
whether
> <br>I
> <br>> > should
> <br>> > > get
> <br>> > > > > > my Masters Degree in Information Technology or attempt
> the
> <br>CCIE
> <br>> > lab. I
> <br>> > > > > > dont have time for both because both will take the
same
> time
> <br>> > (about 1
> <br>> > > 1/2
> <br>> > > > > > to 2 years). The masters degree focuses a lot on
networking.
> <br>It
> <br>> > seems
> <br>> > > to
> <br>> > > > > > me that the masters degree would do more for my career
> <br>because
> <br>> > there
> <br>> > > > > > arent that many people in this field that have one and
> I
> <br>will
> <br>> > always
> <br>> > > > > > have it and it can never be taken away from me. The
CCIE
> <br>> > certification
> <br>> > > > > > can be taken away if you dont recertify and 10 years
from
> <br>now
> <br>> > it could
> <br>> > > > > > have no value(who knows). I know that a masters degree
> will
> <br>> > always
> <br>> > > have
> <br>> > > > > > value. I have a B.A. in Business Management and
without
> that
> <br>I
> <br>> > would
> <br>> > > not
> <br>> > > > > > have gotten the position I have because a bachelors is
> <br>required
> <br>> > for
> <br>> > > this
> <br>> > > > > > job. Right now my degree has helped me more than
> <br>> > certification. I am
> <br>> > > > > > almost finished with the CCNP and it is no challenge
for
> me.
> <br>> > Which do
> <br>> > > > > > you all think would have more value? CCIE with
Experience
> or
> <br>> > Masters
> <br>> > > in
> <br>> > > > > > Information Technology with CCNP and CCDP and
Experience?
> <br>> > > > > > Thanks In Advance for any responses
> <br>> > > > > >
> <br>> > > > > > MED
> <br>> > > > > >
> <br>> > > > > >
> <br>> > > > > > Sent via Deja.com <a
href="http://www.deja.com/">http://www.deja.com/</a>
> <br>> > > > > > Before you buy.
> <br>> > > > >
> <br>> > > > >
> <br>> > > >
> <br>> > > >
> <br>> > > >
> <br>> > >
> <br>> > >
> <br>> >
> <br>> >
> <br>> > Hey Flatch,
> <br>> > I know it's off topic, but, after recognizing your name, I'll
admit
> <br>I'm
> <br>> > curious. You having your masters and all, do you consider
yourself
> <br>an
> <br>> > old fart or S.B.D.?
> <br>> > ;-)
> <br>> >
> <br>> >
> <br>> > Sent via Deja.com <a
href="http://www.deja.com/">http://www.deja.com/</a>
> <br>> > Before you buy.
> <br>>
> <br>>
> <p>Sent via Deja.com <a
href="http://www.deja.com/">http://www.deja.com/</a>
> <br>Before you buy.</blockquote>
> </html>
dude
"Keith Huggins" <khug...@globix.net> wrote in message news:3A259727...@globix.net...I agree with that. The more you know / have the better you are.
detro...@my-deja.com
will get you a lot further. Im only 24 and I have 5 years of networking
experience. My goal is to be a lead manager or CIO in the future. Ive
done the techie stuff and am still doing it but that gets old after a
while for me. My goal is advancement. Ten years from now I dont want to
feel pressure to have to study for the latest certification to keep my
job and be in competion with the young guys. I want to be the person
who the CCIE reports to. I want technical management. Plus the more you
climb up the techie ladder the more pressure you face and the more
hours you work which in many situations consist of 70 hours. I need
quality of life. By going into high level network magement you make
more money than a CCIE and plus you work less hours and your job is
more diverse. Thats what I want. I dont want to just configure a router
and switch for the rest of my life(if you know what I mean). Im already
tired of just doing that. Some people are made to do that. Im not. And
remember what vendor and certification is valuable today may not be
valuable or here tomorrow. Thats why I feel better planning for the
future. Another thing: the cost of living in Atlanta and Texas is
pretty high maybe not as high as cali but it is still high. Salaries
are also a good amount lower in those places than in Cali.
In article <5Gkm6AX...@typhoon.i3s.net>,
"dude" <ma...@bbnow.net> wrote:
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C06935.BE875FE0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Hey, Keith, props. When I read the Master's rebuttal I was going to =
> write the same things that you did. He doesn't know how hard we have
=
> busted our humps to get where we are. I can't tell you how many
people =
> I know that say that the best thing they got out of college was the =
> feeling that they can stick with something. Well, I got that plus a
lot =
> of money. BTW, you're right. The more you know, the better. I will
=
> get back into school as soon as I finish my IE (I only have about a
year =
> left). Then I won't have to be a starving student. I want a degree =
> because it is a goal of mine, but I know that my income will come
from =
> staying on the cutting edge of technology and positioning myself well
in =
> the market.
>
> Anyway, I guess that guy thought I was lying about my income and the =
> relatively short amount of time I've been in the industry (I was a
home =
> builder two years ago). That means that either I am lying or my =
> expectations are higher than his. Thanks for chiming in. Drop me a =
> line some time and maybe we can compare notes. I know some guys that
=
> like to study here in the Bay Area.
>
> Also, as he said, the income here in the Valley is high, but salaries
in =
> places like Phoenix, Atlanta, and Houston are very comparable with a =
> lower cost of living. In addition, more and more companies are
willing =
> to let you live where you want if you'll travel a week out of each =
> month, and they will still pay you your San Jose wage. This guy
hasn't =
> done his research. He is trying to tell everyone how smart he is by =
> going the traditional route while we idiots go the networking route
for =
> more money. He can do as he pleases, but he shouldn't come here and =
> tell the NG that we are suckers, eh?
>
> Late...
> "Keith Huggins" <khug...@globix.net> wrote in message =
> news:3A259727...@globix.net...
> I agree with that. The more you know / have the better you are.=20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> detro...@my-deja.com wrote:=20
>
> You make a good point about cost of living in certain areas. 100k
in =
>
> california equates to about 60k in the midwest.I guess the point
I =
> was=20
> trying to make is that it is best to go for both certification
and a =
>
> degree because when this industry gets flooded with engineers it =
> will=20
> make you stand out more by having a degree and get certain
jobs.=20
> In article <3A256EC6...@globix.net>,=20
> Keith Huggins <khug...@globix.net> wrote:=20
> > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0
transitional//en">=20
> > <html>=20
> > First let me start with saying that I mean no disrespect with
what =
> im=20
> about=20
> > to say.=20
> > <p>For anyone to be so closed minded and to think that because
it=20
> didnt=20
> > happen to them or in there=20
> > <br>area, that its imposible is even more stupid.=20
> > <p>For this person to be making 80K after a year of experience
is=20
> verry=20
> > possible where=20
> > <br>I come from (Bay Area California). For Example I am=20
> currently=20
> > at my first Networking=20
> > <br>position, and I started making 65k this is without my =
> CCNA. =20
> After=20
> > getting my=20
> > <br>CCNA i recieved a raise to a little more than 68k. I
am =
> also=20
> > talking with management=20
> > <br>and attempting to move to a Network Engineer position which
=
> will=20
> probably=20
> > put me close=20
> > <br>to 80k, at least in the 70s. I have only been here
for 3 =
>
> months. =20
> > I dont have my CCNP yet and almost at that=20
> > <br>level of pay. Now as for your other comments.=20
> > <p>Management is still a possibility, especially if you stay
with =
> a=20
> certain=20
> > company for a long=20
> > <br>time. (3 years being more than enough) I have seen it
=
> done=20
> time=20
> > and time again.=20
> > <p>Anyone who has been in the industry for any amount of time =
> knows=20
> that=20
> > it is moving in a=20
> > <br>verry rapid pace and to stay employed we have to keep up
with=20
> it. =20
> > Granted Cisco might=20
> > <br>not be here in 5 years (I think they will, but for the sake
of =
>
> argument),=20
> > anywone who is=20
> > <br>in the routing or switching is going to have to evolve,
same =
> with=20
> anyother=20
> > flavor of networking.=20
> > <br>For Example, Novell used to be huge, but Microsoft slowly
but=20
> shurly=20
> > took over, so people had=20
> > <br>to recert if they wanted and relearn to stay up on pace, or
=
> got=20
> left=20
> > behind.=20
> > <br>This person might stick with CCIE and thats all even after =
> change,=20
> > at which case your right=20
> > <br>he will fall behind, but chances are he will work towards
the =
> new=20
> goal. =20
> > To sit there and think=20
> > <br>that just because he is only certed in Cisco, that must
mean =
> that=20
> he=20
> > will stay that way for the=20
> > <br>next 5 years is even more close minded than before.=20
> > <br>I believe he found something he enjoys and took it to the =
> extreme.=20
> > BTW Congrats Dude.=20
> > <p>Granted the more you know the better you are, I believe that
=
> truly,=20
> > but on the other hand you=20
> > <br>start thinning yourself thin, before you know it all you
are =
> doing=20
> > is recerting every year on something.=20
> > <br>and if you are doing this, then you cant know the key areas
of =
>
> your=20
> > particular position as good.=20
> > <br>Also, its getting to that point where employers are wanting
=
> the=20
> person=20
> > who is the "expert" on this=20
> > <br>particular area.=20
> > <p>As Ive said in previous postings, this is all relitive to
your=20
> enviroment,=20
> > you may be living in a area=20
> > <br>where a network engineer makes a max of 50k (just like on=20
> leapit.com)=20
> > where i come from,=20
> > <br>there doesnt seem to be a limit at this time.=20
> > <p>Finally DUH cisco can take it away so can Microsoft,
Novell,=20
> Comptia,=20
> > and any other certification.=20
> > <p>Again no disrespect was inteaded if any was done. (and i
truly =
> mean=20
> > that)=20
> > <p>Just my 2 coppers=20
> > <br>Keith Huggins=20
> > <br> =20
> > <br> =20
> > <p>detro...@my-deja.com wrote:=20
> > <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE>Hey Dude=20
> > <p>Anybody that believes your story has to be stupid. So after =
> 6month=20
> to=20
> > a=20
> > <br>year of experience you make 80K, Yea right. Even if this
was a =
>
> true=20
> > <br>story all you are skilled on is cisco. Say if 3 years from =
> know=20
> you=20
> > want=20
> > <br>to move into management you wont be able to because of no =
> degree.=20
> Say=20
> > if=20
> > <br>cisco is not the big vendor 5 years from now. What will you
do =
>
> then?=20
> > All=20
> > <br>you are doing is making a vertical leap in one area. You
cant =
> do=20
> but=20
> > one=20
> > <br>thing. With a CCIE cisco owns what you have and they can
take =
> it=20
> away=20
> > <br>from you anytime they feel like it.So the move you have
made =
> is=20
> good=20
> > <br>temporary and bad for the long term.There are CCIEs that
cant =
> get=20
> > <br>management positions because they have no degree.=20
> > <p>In article <fTmoSCc...@typhoon.i3s.net>,=20
> > <br> "dude" <ma...@bbnow.net> wrote:=20
> > <br>> Whoever the guy is that says not to bother with the CCIE =
> "hype",=20
> > I'm=20
> > <br>glad=20
> > <br>> that he feels that way. I gave up on school to
study =
> Cisco=20
> > about a=20
> > <br>year=20
> > <br>> ago. I got my CCNP in about six months and then=20
> immediately=20
> > passed my=20
> > <br>CCIE=20
> > <br>> written. I spent an average of 5-6 hours a day =
> studying=20
> with=20
> > no=20
> > <br>instructor=20
> > <br>> to help me. I forced my way into getting my hands on
routers =
> and=20
> > <br>switches at=20
> > <br>> work. As soon as I got my CCNP I got a job for $78K where
I =
> am=20
> > <br>handling=20
> > <br>> 6506s and 7513s on a daily basis for customers and
working =
> with=20
> OSPF=20
> > <br>and BGP=20
> > <br>> in real production environments, plus configuring in our
lab =
> to=20
> my=20
> > <br>heart's=20
> > <br>> content. My CCIE lab exam is scheduled for January 22 and
=
> the=20
> CCIE=20
> > at=20
> > <br>Cisco=20
> > <br>> that works with our Channel Account Manager to help us
on=20
> technical=20
> > <br>issues=20
> > <br>> says that I'm just about ready. My company is
talking =
> in=20
> the=20
> > $115=20
> > <br>range=20
> > <br>> when I pass the lab. It will only go up from =
> there. =20
> In=20
> > addition, the=20
> > <br>> exposure that I am getting has allowed my to implement=20
> Checkpoint=20
> > and=20
> > <br>now=20
> > <br>> Alcatel solutions and learn VPN. I am glad that
you=20
> probably=20
> > think I=20
> > <br>am=20
> > <br>> stupid for wasting my time when I could learn all of
that=20
> valuable=20
> > <br>Masters=20
> > <br>> information. That means that you won't climb on
board =
> and=20
> lower=20
> > my=20
> > <br>salary.=20
> > <br>> BTW, I've done college and the CCIE self-study, and the
CCIE =
> was=20
> > much=20
> > <br>more=20
> > <br>> demanding. It required a ton of motivation and
endless =
>
> studying=20
> > and=20
> > <br>problem=20
> > <br>> solving. Please, kids, stay in school. Don't =
> waste=20
> your=20
> > time on this=20
> > <br>> worthless certification.=20
> > <br>>=20
> > <br>> <mgra...@my-deja.com> wrote in message=20
> > <br><a=20
> =
> href=3D"news:8tfv38$j4g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com">news:8tfv38
$j4g$1...@nnrp1.deja.co=
> m=20
> </a>...=20
> > <br>> > In article <Q4BK5.1164$Qs4.2...@nnrp1.sbc.net>,=20
> > <br>> > "Flatch U. Lence.." <93...@mydeja.com> =
> wrote:=20
> > <br>> > > I disagree. If you can pass the lab (last time I
checked =
> it=20
> was=20
> > a=20
> > <br>95%=20
> > <br>> > > failure rate,) then you KNOW Cisco. This is not like
any =
>
> other=20
> > <br>> > > certification. Once again. You pass the lab, then you
=
> are=20
> truly=20
> > an=20
> > <br>> > EXPERT in=20
> > <br>> > > Cisco. Period. There is no getting around it. I have
a=20
> friend=20
> > who=20
> > <br>has=20
> > <br>> > worked=20
> > <br>> > > for Cisco for 3 years. This guy eats drinks and
sleeps=20
> Cisco.=20
> > He=20
> > <br>is=20
> > <br>> > probably=20
> > <br>> > > close to genius level. And HE has failed the lab
twice =
> so=20
> far.=20
> > <br>Plus=20
> > <br>> > he gets=20
> > <br>> > > the best training for free.=20
> > <br>> > >=20
> > <br>> > > My two cents: If you can pass the CCIE, you are
looking =
> at=20
> well=20
> > <br>over=20
> > <br>> > 100k=20
> > <br>> > > minimum, and that's in a low cost of living area.
Once =
> done,=20
> > you=20
> > <br>can=20
> > <br>> > always=20
> > <br>> > > get a masters. I have a masters. It helps, but
usually=20
> > <br>interviewers=20
> > <br>> > skim=20
> > <br>> > > over it and get to the certs and experience. Plus
I'm=20
> assuming=20
> > you=20
> > <br>> > have a=20
> > <br>> > > bachelors already. The interviewer isn't going to=20
> differentiate=20
> > <br>THAT=20
> > <br>> > MUCH=20
> > <br>> > > between the two degrees.=20
> > <br>> > >=20
> > <br>> > > Definitely get the CCIE! It's the most coveted =
> certification=20
> > in=20
> > <br>the=20
> > <br>> > world.=20
> > <br>> > >=20
> > <br>> > > Of course, all of this is IMO.=20
> > <br>> > >=20
> > <br>> > > "michael champion" <mch...@home.com> wrote in
message =
>
> > <br>> > > <a=20
> =
> href=3D"news:HuQJ5.121346
$g6.56...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com">news:HuQJ5.=
> 1=20
> 21346$g6.56...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com</a>...=20
> > <br>> > > > I have read enough of this nonsense, and I can no =
> longer=20
> just=20
> > <br>sit=20
> > <br>> > back and=20
> > <br>> > > > ignore this thread. A Cisco CCNP or even CCIE shows
=
> that=20
> you=20
> > are=20
> > <br>> > > > well-grounded in Cisco products and technology, =
> period. A=20
> > <br>Master's=20
> > <br>> > degree=20
> > <br>> > > in=20
> > <br>> > > > EE or Computer Science implies that you have had
over =
> 120=20
> hours=20
> > <br>of=20
> > <br>> > course=20
> > <br>> > > > study in a rigorous and well-organized study
program =
> over=20
> an=20
> > <br>> > average of 4=20
> > <br>> > > > years that includes Engineering Mechanics,
Physics,=20
> hands-on=20
> > <br>> > electronic=20
> > <br>> > > > laboratories, electrical engineering or computer =
> science=20
> theory,=20
> > <br>> > class=20
> > <br>> > > > projects which you are graded on, advanced =
> mathematics,=20
> etc.=20
> > <br>Just=20
> > <br>> > about=20
> > <br>> > > > every company that I see in local job fairs REQUIRE
a=20
> college=20
> > <br>> > degree in=20
> > <br>> > > > computer science, electrical engineering, or some =
> related=20
> > <br>discipline=20
> > <br>> > > before=20
> > <br>> > > > they will even discuss with you a technical
position;=20
> their=20
> > idea=20
> > <br>of=20
> > <br>> > > > equivalent experience would be 8-10 years heavily =
> involved=20
> > in=20
> > <br>> > directly=20
> > <br>> > > > supporting a huge network.=20
> > <br>> > > >=20
> > <br>> > > > When I say get a degree, I mean a BSEE or an MSEE.
It =
> will=20
> > pay=20
> > <br>> > dividends=20
> > <br>> > > > down the road. Don't buy into the CCIE hype. Unless
=
> you=20
> have=20
> > <br>years=20
> > <br>> > of=20
> > <br>> > > > experience to back it up even with that cert you
will =
> find=20
> > it=20
> > <br>> > difficult to=20
> > <br>> > > > be given an advanced networking opportunity with
a=20
> commensurate=20
> > <br>> > salary.=20
> > <br>> > > The=20
> > <br>> > > > CCIE lab gives you an opportunity to prove your
skills =
> and=20
> > <br>> > knowledge of=20
> > <br>> > > > mainly Cisco products. However, not every company
in =
> the=20
> world=20
> > <br>has=20
> > <br>> > gone a=20
> > <br>> > > > purely Cisco route, and your Cisco knowledge won't =
> mean=20
> squat=20
> > if=20
> > <br>> > you are=20
> > <br>> > > > having to work with non-Cisco equipment (all of the
=
> IOS=20
> commands=20
> > <br>> > that you=20
> > <br>> > > > learned to take advantage of some proprietary
Cisco=20
> feature=20
> > will=20
> > <br>be=20
> > <br>> > > > useless).=20
> > <br>> > > >=20
> > <br>> > > > My advice? Get an MSEE with a minor in IT (if =
> available)=20
> or=20
> > <br>computer=20
> > <br>> > > > science, learn as much as you can about how Unix=20
> internally=20
> > <br>works,=20
> > <br>> > and,=20
> > <br>> > > > while attending the university, see if you can get =
> some=20
> hands-on=20
> > <br>> > > experience=20
> > <br>> > > > with the school's network (which probably is =
> Cisco-based=20
> with=20
> > <br>Unix=20
> > <br>> > > servers).=20
> > <br>> > > > If the CCNP is not a challenge for you then try =
> partial=20
> > <br>differential=20
> > <br>> > > > equations, calculus on manifolds, quantum
mechanics,=20
> tensor=20
> > <br>> > analysis, etc.=20
> > <br>> > > > while you are earning your degree. By no stretch of
=
> the=20
> > <br>imagination=20
> > <br>> > is a=20
> > <br>> > > > Cisco cert of any type equivalent to a college =
> education=20
> in=20
> > a=20
> > <br>> > technical=20
> > <br>> > > > field.=20
> > <br>> > > >=20
> > <br>> > > > JMHO=20
> > <br>> > > >=20
> > <br>> > > > MLC CCNP
2.0 =
>
> MSEE =20
> > et al=20
> > <br>> > > >=20
> > <br>> > > > Peter Retief <pre...@nospam.mweb.co.za> wrote
in=20
> message=20
> > <br>> > > > <a=20
> =
> href=3D"news:8t78up$8qk$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net">news:8t78up$8qk$1@ctb-
nnrp2=
> .=20
> saix.net</a>...=20
> > <br>> > > > > Do not assume that because the CCNP is no
challenge =
> for=20
> you=20
> > <br>that=20
> > <br>> > the=20
> > <br>> > > CCIE=20
> > <br>> > > > is=20
> > <br>> > > > > the same .. the CCNP is just a series of =
> computer-based=20
> exams,=20
> > <br>as=20
> > <br>> > is the=20
> > <br>> > > > > CCIE entry test. The CCIE lab is a much =
> tougher=20
> proposition,=20
> > <br>and=20
> > <br>> > cannot=20
> > <br>> > > > be=20
> > <br>> > > > > passed without extensive practical experience.=20
> > <br>> > > > >=20
> > <br>> > > > > The CCIE is probably worth more in the short term
=
> than a=20
> > <br>Masters=20
> > <br>> > Degree,=20
> > <br>> > > > but=20
> > <br>> > > > > you are correct that the Masters Degree does not =
> devalue=20
> > over=20
> > <br>> > time,=20
> > <br>> > > which=20
> > <br>> > > > > the CCIE will do, unless renewed.=20
> > <br>> > > > >=20
> > <br>> > > > > Why not go for both at once .. some universities
are =
>
> starting=20
> > <br>to=20
> > <br>> > combine=20
> > <br>> > >=20
> > <br>> > > > > masters degrees with ccie training.=20
> > <br>> > > > >=20
> > <br>> > > > > For example, see=20
> > <br>> > <a=20
> =
>
href=3D"http://cs.acadiau.ca/seminars/previous/TerryHallet.html">http://
c=
> s=20
> .acadiau.ca/seminars/previous/TerryHallet.html</a>=20
> > <br>> > > > >=20
> > <br>> > > > > <detro...@my-deja.com> wrote in message=20
> > <br>> > > > > <a=20
> =
>
href=3D"news:8t6qkp$atd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com">news:8t6qkp$atd$1...@nnrp1.deja.c
o=
> m=20
> </a>...=20
> > <br>> > > > > > I have to make a big decison. I am trying to =
> decide=20
> whether=20
> > <br>I=20
> > <br>> > should=20
> > <br>> > > get=20
> > <br>> > > > > > my Masters Degree in Information Technology or =
> attempt=20
> > the=20
> > <br>CCIE=20
> > <br>> > lab. I=20
> > <br>> > > > > > dont have time for both because both will take
the =
>
> same=20
> > time=20
> > <br>> > (about 1=20
> > <br>> > > 1/2=20
> > <br>> > > > > > to 2 years). The masters degree focuses a lot
on=20
> networking.=20
> > <br>It=20
> > <br>> > seems=20
> > <br>> > > to=20
> > <br>> > > > > > me that the masters degree would do more for my
=
> career=20
> > <br>because=20
> > <br>> > there=20
> > <br>> > > > > > arent that many people in this field that have
one =
> and=20
> > I=20
> > <br>will=20
> > <br>> > always=20
> > <br>> > > > > > have it and it can never be taken away from me.
=
> The=20
> CCIE=20
> > <br>> > certification=20
> > <br>> > > > > > can be taken away if you dont recertify and 10 =
> years=20
> from=20
> > <br>now=20
> > <br>> > it could=20
> > <br>> > > > > > have no value(who knows). I know that a masters
=
> degree=20
> > will=20
> > <br>> > always=20
> > <br>> > > have=20
> > <br>> > > > > > value. I have a B.A. in Business Management
and=20
> without=20
> > that=20
> > <br>I=20
> > <br>> > would=20
> > <br>> > > not=20
> > <br>> > > > > > have gotten the position I have because a =
> bachelors is=20
> > <br>required=20
> > <br>> > for=20
> > <br>> > > this=20
> > <br>> > > > > > job. Right now my degree has helped me
more =
> than=20
> > <br>> > certification. I am=20
> > <br>> > > > > > almost finished with the CCNP and it is no =
> challenge=20
> for=20
> > me.=20
> > <br>> > Which do=20
> > <br>> > > > > > you all think would have more value? CCIE
with=20
> Experience=20
> > or=20
> > <br>> > Masters=20
> > <br>> > > in=20
> > <br>> > > > > > Information Technology with CCNP and CCDP and=20
> Experience?=20
> > <br>> > > > > > Thanks In Advance for any responses=20
> > <br>> > > > > >=20
> > <br>> > > > > > MED=20
> > <br>> > > > > >=20
> > <br>> > > > > >=20
> > <br>> > > > > > Sent via Deja.com <a=20
> href=3D"http://www.deja.com/">http://www.deja.com/</a>=20
> > <br>> > > > > > Before you buy.=20
> > <br>> > > > >=20
> > <br>> > > > >=20
> > <br>> > > >=20
> > <br>> > > >=20
> > <br>> > > >=20
> > <br>> > >=20
> > <br>> > >=20
> > <br>> >=20
> > <br>> >=20
> > <br>> > Hey Flatch,=20
> > <br>> > I know it's off topic, but, after recognizing your
name, =
> I'll=20
> admit=20
> > <br>I'm=20
> > <br>> > curious. You having your masters and all, do you
consider=20
> yourself=20
> > <br>an=20
> > <br>> > old fart or S.B.D.?=20
> > <br>> > ;-)=20
> > <br>> >=20
> > <br>> >=20
> > <br>> > Sent via Deja.com <a=20
> href=3D"http://www.deja.com/">http://www.deja.com/</a>=20
> > <br>> > Before you buy.=20
> > <br>>=20
> > <br>>=20
> > <p>Sent via Deja.com <a=20
> href=3D"http://www.deja.com/">http://www.deja.com/</a>=20
> > <br>Before you buy.</blockquote>=20
> > </html>=20
> >=20
> >=20
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/=20
> Before you buy.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C06935.BE875FE0
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey, Keith, props. When I read
=
> the Master's=20
> rebuttal I was going to write the same things that you did. He =
> doesn't=20
> know how hard we have busted our humps to get where we are. I =
> can't tell=20
> you how many people I know that say that the best thing they got out
of =
> college=20
> was the feeling that they can stick with something. Well, I got
=
> that plus=20
> a lot of money. BTW, you're right. The more you know,
the=20
> better. I will get back into school as soon as I finish my IE
(I =
> only have=20
> about a year left). Then I won't have to be a starving =
> student. I=20
> want a degree because it is a goal of mine, but I know that my income
=
> will come=20
> from staying on the cutting edge of technology and positioning myself
=
> well in=20
> the market.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyway, I guess that guy thought I
was =
> lying about=20
> my income and the relatively short amount of time I've been in the =
> industry (I=20
> was a home builder two years ago). That means that either I am =
> lying or my=20
> expectations are higher than his. Thanks for chiming in. =
> Drop me a=20
> line some time and maybe we can compare notes. I know some guys
=
> that like=20
> to study here in the Bay Area.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also, as he said, the income here in
=
> the Valley is=20
> high, but salaries in places like Phoenix, Atlanta, and Houston are
very =
>
> comparable with a lower cost of living. In addition, more and
more =
>
> companies are willing to let you live where you want if you'll travel
a =
> week out=20
> of each month, and they will still pay you your San Jose wage. =
> This guy=20
> hasn't done his research. He is trying to tell everyone how
smart =
> he is by=20
> going the traditional route while we idiots go the networking route
for =
> more=20
> money. He can do as he pleases, but he shouldn't come here and =
> tell the NG=20
> that we are suckers, eh?</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Late...</FONT></DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"Keith Huggins" <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:khug...@globix.net">khug...@globix.net</A>>
wrote =
> in message=20
> <A=20
> =
>
href=3D"news:3A259727...@globix.net">news:3A259727.AF747E85@globix
.=
> net</A>...</DIV>I=20
> agree with that. The more you know / have the better you are.
=
> <BR> =20
> <BR> <BR> =20
> <P>detro...@my-deja.com wrote:=20
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">You make a good point about cost of
living =
> in=20
> certain areas. 100k in <BR>california equates to about 60k in the
=
> midwest.I=20
> guess the point I was <BR>trying to make is that it is best to go
=
> for both=20
> certification and a <BR>degree because when this industry gets =
> flooded with=20
> engineers it will <BR>make you stand out more by having a degree
and =
> get=20
> certain jobs.=20
> <P>In article <3A256EC6...@globix.net>, <BR>
Keith =
> Huggins=20
> <khug...@globix.net> wrote: <BR>> <!doctype html
public =
>
> "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <BR>> <html>
=
> <BR>>=20
> First let me start with saying that I mean no disrespect with
what =
> im=20
> <BR>about <BR>> to say. <BR>> <p>For anyone to be so =
> closed=20
> minded and to think that because it <BR>didnt <BR>> happen to =
> them or in=20
> there <BR>> <br>area, that its imposible is even more =
> stupid.=20
> <BR>> <p>For this person to be making 80K after a year
of=20
> experience is <BR>verry <BR>> possible where <BR>>
<br>I =
> come=20
> from (Bay Area California).&nbsp; For Example I am
<BR>currently =
>
> <BR>> at my first Networking <BR>> <br>position, and
I =
> started=20
> making 65k this is without my CCNA.&nbsp; <BR>After <BR>> =
> getting my=20
> <BR>> <br>CCNA i recieved a raise to a little more
than=20
> 68k.&nbsp; I am also <BR>> talking with management
<BR>>=20
> <br>and attempting to move to a Network Engineer position =
> which will=20
> <BR>probably <BR>> put me close <BR>> <br>to 80k, at =
> least in=20
> the 70s.&nbsp; I have only been here for 3
<BR>months.&nbsp; =
>
> <BR>> I dont have my CCNP yet and almost at that <BR>> =
> <br>level=20
> of pay. Now as for your other comments. <BR>>
<p>Management =
> is=20
> still a possibility, especially if you stay with a <BR>certain =
> <BR>>=20
> company for a long <BR>> <br>time. (3 years being more
than =
>
> enough)&nbsp; I have seen it done <BR>time <BR>> and time =
> again.=20
> <BR>> <p>Anyone who has been in the industry for any
amount =
> of time=20
> knows <BR>that <BR>> it is moving in a <BR>>
<br>verry =
> rapid=20
> pace and to stay employed we have to keep up with
<BR>it.&nbsp; =
> <BR>>=20
> Granted Cisco might <BR>> <br>not be here in 5 years (I =
> think they=20
> will, but for the sake of <BR>argument), <BR>> anywone who is =
> <BR>>=20
> <br>in the routing or switching is going to have to evolve,
=
> same with=20
> <BR>anyother <BR>> flavor of networking. <BR>>
<br>For =
> Example,=20
> Novell used to be huge, but Microsoft slowly but <BR>shurly
<BR>> =
> took=20
> over, so people had <BR>> <br>to recert if they wanted
and =
> relearn=20
> to stay up on pace, or got <BR>left <BR>> behind. <BR>> =
> <br>This=20
> person might stick with CCIE and thats all even after change, =
> <BR>> at=20
> which case your right <BR>> <br>he will fall behind, but
=
> chances=20
> are he will work towards the new <BR>goal.&nbsp; <BR>> To
sit =
> there=20
> and think <BR>> <br>that just because he is only certed
in =
> Cisco,=20
> that must mean that <BR>he <BR>> will stay that way for the =
> <BR>>=20
> <br>next 5 years is even more close minded than before. =
> <BR>>=20
> <br>I believe he found something he enjoys and took it to
the =
> extreme.=20
> <BR>> BTW&nbsp;Congrats Dude. <BR>> <p>Granted
the =
> more you=20
> know the better you are, I believe that truly, <BR>> but on
the =
> other=20
> hand you <BR>> <br>start thinning yourself thin, before
you =
> know it=20
> all you are doing <BR>> is recerting every year on something. =
> <BR>>=20
> <br>and if you are doing this, then you cant know the key =
> areas of=20
> <BR>your <BR>> particular position as good. <BR>> =
> <br>Also, its=20
> getting to that point where employers are wanting the <BR>person =
> <BR>>=20
> who is the "expert" on this <BR>> <br>particular area. =
> <BR>>=20
> <p>As Ive said in previous postings, this is all relitive
to =
> your=20
> <BR>enviroment, <BR>> you may be living in a area <BR>>=20
> <br>where a network engineer makes a max of 50k (just like
on=20
> <BR>leapit.com) <BR>> where i come from, <BR>>
<br>there =
> doesnt=20
> seem to be a limit at this time. <BR>> <p>Finally DUH
cisco =
> can=20
> take it away so can Microsoft, Novell, <BR>Comptia, <BR>> and
any =
> other=20
> certification. <BR>> <p>Again no disrespect was inteaded
if =
> any was=20
> done. (and i truly mean <BR>> that) <BR>> <p>Just my
2 =
> coppers=20
> <BR>> <br>Keith Huggins <BR>> <br>&nbsp; =
> <BR>>=20
> <br>&nbsp; <BR>> <p>detro...@my-deja.com
wrote: =
>
> <BR>> <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE>Hey Dude <BR>> =
> <p>Anybody that=20
> believes your story has to be stupid. So after 6month <BR>to =
> <BR>> a=20
> <BR>> <br>year of experience you make 80K, Yea right.
Even =
> if this=20
> was a <BR>true <BR>> <br>story all you are skilled on is
=
> cisco. Say=20
> if 3 years from know <BR>you <BR>> want <BR>> <br>to =
> move into=20
> management you wont be able to because of no degree. <BR>Say =
> <BR>> if=20
> <BR>> <br>cisco is not the big vendor 5 years from now. =
> What will=20
> you do <BR>then? <BR>> All <BR>> <br>you are doing is
=
> making a=20
> vertical leap in one area. You cant do <BR>but <BR>> one
<BR>> =
>
> <br>thing. With a CCIE cisco owns what you have and they
can =
> take it=20
> <BR>away <BR>> <br>from you anytime they feel like it.So
=
> the move=20
> you have made is <BR>good <BR>> <br>temporary and bad
for =
> the long=20
> term.There are CCIEs that cant get <BR>> <br>management =
> positions=20
> because they have no degree. <BR>> <p>In article=20
> &lt;fTmoSCc...@typhoon.i3s.net>, <BR>> =
> <br>&nbsp;=20
> "dude" &lt;ma...@bbnow.net> wrote: <BR>> <br>>
=
> Whoever=20
> the guy is that says not to bother with the CCIE "hype", <BR>>
=
> I'm=20
> <BR>> <br>glad <BR>> <br>> that he feels
that=20
> way.&nbsp; I gave up on school to study Cisco <BR>> about
a =
> <BR>>=20
> <br>year <BR>> <br>> ago.&nbsp; I got my
CCNP =
> in about=20
> six months and then <BR>immediately <BR>> passed my <BR>>=20
> <br>CCIE <BR>> <br>> written.&nbsp; I spent
an =
> average=20
> of 5-6 hours a day studying <BR>with <BR>> no <BR>>=20
> <br>instructor <BR>> <br>> to help me. I forced
my =
> way=20
> into getting my hands on routers and <BR>> <br>switches
at =
> <BR>>=20
> <br>> work. As soon as I got my CCNP I got a job for
$78K =
> where I=20
> am <BR>> <br>handling <BR>> <br>> 6506s and =
> 7513s on a=20
> daily basis for customers and working with <BR>OSPF <BR>> =
> <br>and=20
> BGP <BR>> <br>> in real production environments,
plus=20
> configuring in our lab to <BR>my <BR>> <br>heart's
<BR>> =
>
> <br>> content. My CCIE lab exam is scheduled for January
22 =
> and the=20
> <BR>CCIE <BR>> at <BR>> <br>Cisco <BR>> =
> <br>> that=20
> works with our Channel Account Manager to help us on
<BR>technical =
> <BR>>=20
> <br>issues <BR>> <br>> says that I'm just
about=20
> ready.&nbsp; My company is talking in <BR>the <BR>> $115 =
> <BR>>=20
> <br>range <BR>> <br>> when I pass the =
> lab.&nbsp; It=20
> will only go up from there.&nbsp; <BR>In <BR>> addition,
the =
> <BR>>=20
> <br>> exposure that I am getting has allowed my to =
> implement=20
> <BR>Checkpoint <BR>> and <BR>> <br>now <BR>> =
> <br>>=20
> Alcatel solutions and learn VPN.&nbsp; I am glad that you =
> <BR>probably=20
> <BR>> think I <BR>> <br>am <BR>> <br>> =
> stupid for=20
> wasting my time when I could learn all of that <BR>valuable
<BR>> =
>
> <br>Masters <BR>> <br>> information.&nbsp; =
> That means=20
> that you won't climb on board and <BR>lower <BR>> my
<BR>>=20
> <br>salary. <BR>> <br>> BTW, I've done college
and =
> the=20
> CCIE self-study, and the CCIE was <BR>> much <BR>> =
> <br>more=20
> <BR>> <br>> demanding.&nbsp; It required a ton of
=
> motivation=20
> and endless <BR>studying <BR>> and <BR>> <br>problem =
> <BR>>=20
> <br>> solving.&nbsp; Please, kids, stay in =
> school.&nbsp;=20
> Don't waste <BR>your <BR>> time on this <BR>>
<br>> =
> worthless=20
> certification. <BR>> <br>> <BR>> <br>>=20
> &lt;mgra...@my-deja.com> wrote in message <BR>> =
> <br><a=20
> <BR>href=3D"<A=20
> =
> href=3D"news:8tfv38$j4g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com">news:8tfv38
$j4g$1...@nnrp1.deja.co=
> m</A>"><A=20
> =
> href=3D"news:8tfv38$j4g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com">news:8tfv38
$j4g$1...@nnrp1.deja.co=
> m</A>=20
> <BR></a>... <BR>> <br>> > In article=20
> &lt;Q4BK5.1164$Qs4.2...@nnrp1.sbc.net>, <BR>> =
> <br>>=20
> >&nbsp;&nbsp; "Flatch U. Lence.." =
> &lt;93...@mydeja.com>=20
> wrote: <BR>> <br>> > > I disagree. If you can
pass =
> the lab=20
> (last time I checked it <BR>was <BR>> a <BR>> <br>95%
=
> <BR>>=20
dave
into. CIOs and management may not be in the office at 2 a.m. upgrading IOS
on a production router or troubleshooting a problem but beleive me they DO
work 70 hrs/wk. They may be working from home or out of the office on a
business trip but if they aren't putting in 70hrs/wk at CIO level they will
be out the door in short order. If you are trying to work your way up to CIO
and are in a middle management role - you will never make your goal if you
are not putting in 70 hours a week - you will be stuck in middle management
the rest of your days if you are lucky enough to keep your job while
slacking off and enjoying your "quality of life".
I personally know CIOs of a couple of mid sizes companies that are working
longer hours and making less than the CCIEs that I know.
As a CIO you have to be versed on all aspects of IT and be able to talk
about the issues and ideas in an intelligent maner and make deciscions for
the business on how to maximize profitability with technological investments
and strategies. Your test that you study for are not taken at a computer in
a testing center (where you may retake the exam if you fail it the first
time), but rather in the board room, in planning meetings, when talking with
investors and ultimately in making decisions on what ERP package and
infrastructure upgrade to spend multiple millions of dollars on.
That said, I don't beleive that it would be a bad thing to have a masters
degree it can only help you no matter what you decide to do - I am merely
pointing out that you are deluding yourself if you feel that you can get a
masters and will subsequently be offered a great management job making $200K
working 9-5.
<detro...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:91pj7o$bgd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Phil O. Dendron
news:7n_K5.8478$G95.2...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
> 2) Beyond the CCNP/CCDP, most of the knowledge is Cisco- and
IOS-specific.
> I recall when a CNE was a license to print money, and now it's the
laughing
> stock of certifications. I'm not saying that Cisco is going to be another
> Novell, but I wouldn't base my future career on a product certification.
Bingo!
P
nun
A Master's Degree in IT technology is worth nothing in 10 years just
like CCIE. Unless, you continue your education of existing and future
technologies and unless you have proof through experience and/or
verifiable documentation that you have received that education, either
title will become stagnant and non-marketable.
paul_...@my-deja.com
"dave" <mobly99-not.for.spam.@ameritech.net> wrote:
>Really,I think you might want to talk a closer look at what you want to
get into.CIOs and management may not be in the office at 2 a.m.
upgrading IOS on a production router or troubleshooting a problem but
beleive me they DO work 70 hrs/wk. They may be working from home or out
of the office on a business trip but if they aren't putting in 70hrs/wk
at CIO level they will be out the door in short order. If you are trying
to work your way up to CIO and are in a middle management role - you
will never make your goal if you are not putting in 70 hours a week -
you will be stuck in middle management the rest of your days if you are
lucky enough to keep your job while> slacking off and enjoying your
"quality of life".
>I personally know CIOs of a couple of mid sizes companies that are
working longer hours and making less than the CCIEs that I know.
>As a CIO you have to be versed on all aspects of IT and be able to
>talk about the issues and ideas in an intelligent maner and make
>decisions for the business on how to maximize profitability with
>technological investments and strategies. Your test that you study for
>are not taken at a computer in a testing center (where you may retake
>the exam if you fail it the first time), but rather in the board room,
>in planning meetings, when talking with investors and ultimately in
>making decisions on what ERP package and infrastructure upgrade to
>spend multiple millions of dollars on.
>That said, I don't beleive that it would be a bad thing to have a
>masters degree it can only help you no matter what you decide to do - I
>am merely pointing out that you are deluding yourself if you feel that
>you can get a masters and will subsequently be offered a great
>management job making $200K working 9-5.
Agreed...an MBA combined with a degree in Computer Science with either
Electrical Engineering or Mathematics would serve this fellow well for a
CIO position, but I could be wrong about this. From what I've heard,
CCIEs make their money by doing high priced consulting work as well. I
don't know how many of them make it to upper management level in a
particular company, but I believe quite a few of them make a very
handsome living as independent contractors/consultants. An MBA gives the
person in question the strong business background knowledge,while the
undergrad degree gives a good base theoretical and applied knowledge in
IT. I'm not saying one is more important than the other, because it
appears that both could serve this person very well in trying to achieve
his goals...hmm...let's see a person wants to run for president...but
doesn't want to serve in any political positions prior to running for
president...sorry, that's not how the political process works...as far
as I know,President-elect Bush,President Clinton,former Presidents Bush
Sr. and Reagean were either governors or vice-presidents before getting
the most powerful job on the planet. It works that way in Canadian
politics as well, and I assume the politics of every democracy in the
world. CCIE and MBA/B.EE B.Sc C.S B.A. Mathematics are both good career
opportunties, but it shouldn't be assumed that either route can lead you
to the same plum career at the end of the tunnel...that just isn't the
case. I would be proud to have either, or really proud if I had both.
Jay
technology. I have to educate myself every single day with new technologies.
I spent average $200 per month on buying new books. I still felt that I have
a long long long way to go !!!
"nun" <nu...@bizness.net> wrote in message
news:3a5d3628....@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
Chunky Flap
Although I couldn't agree with you more on the need for continuing
education, a Master's in an engineering field holds its value for a VERY
long time. Even if you got a MSEE in the 1950s, much of what you learned in
terms of basic engineering, math, etc. is still useful today -- read any
modern Signal Processing textbook and you'll find that all of the core
concepts (such as Fourier transforms, linear algebra, etc.) were developed
long before the textbook authors were even born. (And for you Voice over IP
folks, the Hoth noise component (background noise) of the PSQM voice quality
algorithm (ITU-T P.861) was published in 1941).
Compare that to modern data networking, where recently (< 10 years) hot
technologies (like FDDI and Token Ring) are already more or less dead and
gone (try buying a TR NIC or a book on FDDI). If I was making a long term
investment in a piece of paper, it wouldn't be a vendor cert.
CF
nun wrote in message <3a5d3628....@news-server.carolina.rr.com>...
BGT
your degree. NOW the technical skills learned with masters degree with
eventually not be worth anything, that piece of pape saying you got your
masters is worth alot.
nun wrote in message <3a5d3628....@news-server.carolina.rr.com>...
T
worthless!
On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 03:15:43 GMT, "Phil O. Dendron" <1...@abc.com>
wrote:
Phil O. Dendron
news:f5sv5t008iug2lbvj...@4ax.com...
> Must be you couldn't pass the CNE exams so you think they are
> worthless!
In pure economic terms, I don't think going after that particular
certification is worth it in the long term. CCIE is in the early stages.
As their numbers grow, the salaries will nose-dive just like they did for
MCSEs.
I was merely agreeing with the post.
P
up_a...@my-deja.com
I agree and disagree. The CCIE will probably take a fall but I don't
see it ever going below a 'good number' level for a CCIE. The number
of CCIE's can never match the numbers of MCSE's - do you know how long
the wait is for the CCIE lab? Yeah, the CCIE will fall as the supply
increases but will still be the 'ultimate' cert for the next couple of
years.
Sean
PS - my opinion and a $1.35 are worth of cup of coffee.
Will this post ever end? ;-)
In article <F_286.14671$68.22...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>,