Do these cellular amplifiers work for all cellphones?

[gtr]

Do these cellular amplifiers work when your cellular signal is low?
https://www.weboost.com/boosters/vehicle-car

How low?

[nospam]

In article <t2q21p$e73$1...@dont-email.me>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> Do these cellular amplifiers work when your cellular signal is low?

no

[Woody]

US market so likely illegal in the UK.

[R.Wieser]

Woody

>> Do these cellular amplifiers work when your cellular signal is low?
>> https://www.weboost.com/boosters/vehicle-car
>>
>> How low?
>
> US market so likely illegal in the UK.

Are any personal cellular amplifiers legal in the UK?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Lewis]

More accurately, they don't work with ANY cellphones.

--
You know, in a world in which Bush and Blair can be nominated for the
Nobel Peace Prize, "for having dared to take the necessary
decision to launch a war on Iraq without having the support of
the UN" I find myself agreeing with Tom Lehrer: satire is dead. -
Neil Gaiman

[sms]

No.

The other person might have been thinking of cellular jammers.

[nospam]

In article <slrnt518k1....@m1mini.local>, Lewis

<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

> >> Do these cellular amplifiers work when your cellular signal is low?
>
> > no
>
> More accurately, they don't work with ANY cellphones.

true. the proper solution is a femtocell, which is normally free.

[Wilf]

In UK, Wifi Calling is a good option when signal is poor but there is
access to wifi. Don't know if it is in use in USA.

--
Wilf

[Nil]

On 8 Apr 2022, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in
misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.cellular,uk.telecom.mobile:

>>>> Do these cellular amplifiers work when your cellular signal is low?
>>
>>> no
>>
>> More accurately, they don't work with ANY cellphones.
>
> true. the proper solution is a femtocell, which is normally free.

That is a stupid suggestion.

If you can't resolve why it's obvious you are stupid from what you wrote,
then you're even more stupid than what you said says about you being stupid.

[Nil]

On 8 Apr 2022, Wilf <wi...@postingx.uk> wrote in
misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.cellular,uk.telecom.mobile:

>> US market so likely illegal in the UK.
>
> In UK, Wifi Calling is a good option when signal is poor but there is
> access to wifi. Don't know if it is in use in USA.

The US market is rife with wifi calling. Almost every person has it at home.

But this guy is asking about in a car.

How are you going to do consistent wifi calling while driving in a car?

[Woody]

That of course assumes your phone is modern enough to have the wi-fi
calling capability.

[Martin Brown]

Hard to say. It will depend on which of the various frequencies the
nearest cellular network is using and what the phone supports. It would
be illegal to use in the UK - but not to sell them to punters :(

What will limit its utility in the end is the time gating on mobile
masts so that they refuse connections from more than ~35 miles away
(that figure for UK networks I don't know what it is in the USA).

I have a pair of passive yagi antennae and a Mifi with external antenna
capability that will let me connect to remote nodes provided that there
is direct line of sight and they are not too far away. No use in a car
since the highly directional antennas need careful pointing.

It was useful to get a fast reliable data link to the mobile network in
an area like mine with poor signal (and even worse wired ADSL service).


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Tweed]

Does that 35 mile limit apply to LTE? I thought it was a GSM thing.

[Abandoned_Trolley]

>>
>
> Does that 35 mile limit apply to LTE? I thought it was a GSM thing.
>

I thought it was a GSM thing as well - and only of any practical use on
low capacity 900MHZ systems.

Also, it would only work if the network operator allowed the timing
advance to be set to its maximum value (which may or may not be 63 x 510
metres)


--
random signature text inserted here

[Wilf]

With difficulty?

--
Wilf

[Alan Browne]

On 2022-04-08 15:22, gtr wrote:
> Do these cellular amplifiers work when your cellular signal is low?
> https://www.weboost.com/boosters/vehicle-car

They appear to work and are legal in the US as long as they are FCC
certified. The co. you cite claims FCC compliamce.
https://www.weboost.com/guide-to-cell-phone-signal-boosters about 2/3 down.

Other forums will indicate how well they work by model - and what is
needed to make them practical.


--
"Mr Speaker, I withdraw my statement that half the cabinet are asses -
half the cabinet are not asses."
-Benjamin Disraeli

[gtr]

On 2022-04-09 13:32:06 +0000, Martin Brown said:

> On 08/04/2022 20:22, gtr wrote:
>> Do these cellular amplifiers work when your cellular signal is low?
>> https://www.weboost.com/boosters/vehicle-car
>>
>> How low?
>
> Hard to say. It will depend on which of the various frequencies the
> nearest cellular network is using and what the phone supports.

I called the company who told me they work with all cellular carriers.
They said their best amplifier/transmitter has a 65dBm maximum boost.
But they said the cellular signal needs to be greater than -115dBm.
That would amplify -115dBm up to -50dBm which is a strong cellular signal.

> It would
> be illegal to use in the UK - but not to sell them to punters :(

Why would it be illegal to listen to ANY signal that is over the air?
That's something only the autocratic repressive regimes do isn't it?

If it's illegal simply to have a basic simple radio in the UK (which is what
this is), then I will change the followup to remove the UK telecom.

Is just having an omni cellular /antenna/ also illegal in the UK?
https://www.wilsonamplifiers.com/wilson-electronics-omnidirectional-cellular-antennas/
700-800 MHz: 2 dB
824-894 MHz: 2 dB
880-960 MHz: 2 dB
1710-1880 MHz: 4 dB
1850-1990 MHz: 4 dB
2110-2170 MHz: 4 dB

A directional Yagi should be legal anywhere in the free west, shouldn't it?
https://www.pssstore.net/products/doorking-1514-014-cellular-directional-antenna-kit

> What will limit its utility in the end is the time gating on mobile
> masts so that they refuse connections from more than ~35 miles away
> (that figure for UK networks I don't know what it is in the USA).

All that is going on is the same thing that happens in the Marconi Radio of
the 1900's (it's just picking up /existing/ signal and then amplifying it).

If a basic radio is illegal in the UK, then I feel sorry for those of you
who are in the UK, but more important, I apologize for asking on the UK
newsgroup and I have set the followup to remove the UK newsgroup. Sorry.

> I have a pair of passive yagi antennae and a Mifi with external antenna
> capability that will let me connect to remote nodes provided that there
> is direct line of sight and they are not too far away. No use in a car
> since the highly directional antennas need careful pointing.

Thank you for mentioning the /passive/ antenna, which is what the front end
of _all_ these devices is. Is at least a passive antenna legal in the UK?

I was looking through this web site which explains how to put an omni
antenna on the roof of your car to passively pick up cellular signal.
https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/cellular-resources

But without the 65dBm amplifier (if it's illegal in the UK), I'm not sure
how the smartphone would interface with the received cellular signal as the
output of the omni cellular antenna above is an N-type female or an F-Type
female and the output of the Yagi above is an RG58.

> It was useful to get a fast reliable data link to the mobile network in
> an area like mine with poor signal (and even worse wired ADSL service).

I find it appalling that anywhere in the free world you're not allowed to
have a radio that simply amplifies the signal that is already legally there
but I have removed u.t.m from the followup.

What I'm looking for is widely available in the US but I am just trying to
find out if they're /practical/ as a lot of things work in theory but not in
practice (often because they're too cumbersome or too fragile or too
complex).

That's really all I wanted to know where I was hoping to find people who
have already added a cellular antenna to their car or camper or home.

[David Woolley]

On 09/04/2022 16:16, gtr wrote:
> Why would it be illegal to listen to ANY signal that is over the air?

In this case, it is because they retransmit the signal in the vehicle.

However there is an also expectation of privacy. The default UK
position is that you need a licence to receive radio transmissions,
although there are some exemptions.

Even the US makes it illegal to listen on cellular frequencies, even
though other frequencies, including the police, were open.

I don't think either country has changed its legislation to reflect that
cellular systems are now encrypted.

[Woody]

The default UK ruling is that you can only (in theory at least) listen
to transmissions intended for public entertainment, information, or
education. How anyone could be traced and/or prosecuted for listening to
anything in open speech on any waveband just shows how little the
establishment understands! Listening to civil aircraft is illegal but
look see how many people you see standing around the perimeter fence at
most major airports with scanners stuck on their ears! Radio amateur
licences gave a much wider brief - they could legally listen to maritime
transmissions for instance which is why in the UK it was necessary to
take a 12wpm morse test so that you could identify marine distress
calls. OfCom recognised some years ago that maritime comms is now
largely VHF for short range and satellite for longer distance so did
away with the morse test requirement: Japan retained the morse test for
a long time but set the speed at 0 wpm.

Always puzzled me why the US barred scanners from listening to cellular
channels but would let you listen to police. The latter have now gone
largely digital (mostly DMR) but with a suitable radio you can still
listen to them even from the UK! Barmy IMO.

For the record digital cellular has had over-the-air encryption from day
one. Orange wanted a much greater level of encryption but OfCom (as
instructed by GCHQ) would not allow it as it meant GCHQ would not be
able to listen in - which was why Orange was so late to market.
Curiously GSM cellular was only encrypted over the air but was decoded
to a standard phone system data stream at the base station and passed
over the carrier network unencrypted. Airwave (the emergency services
radio system) on the other hand is end-to-end encrypted.

[sms]

Oops I meant no, they are not illegal.

[sms]

Yes, in the U.S. Wi-Fi calling can be used when signal quality is poor
and Wi-Fi calling has largely eliminated the need for microcells, at
least in homes.

The amplifiers are for a different use case, to get a cellular signal in
weak signal areas where there is no access to broadband.

[Alan Browne]

On 2022-04-09 13:08, Woody wrote:
> On Sat 09/04/2022 17:08, David Woolley wrote:
>> On 09/04/2022 16:16, gtr wrote:
>>> Why would it be illegal to listen to ANY signal that is over the air?
>>
>> In this case, it is because they retransmit the signal in the vehicle.
>>
>> However there is an also expectation of privacy.  The default UK
>> position is that you need a licence to receive radio transmissions,
>> although there are some exemptions.
>>
>> Even the US makes it illegal to listen on cellular frequencies, even
>> though other frequencies, including the police, were open.
>>
>> I don't think either country has changed its legislation to reflect
>> that cellular systems are now encrypted.
>
> The default UK ruling is that you can only (in theory at least) listen
> to transmissions intended for public entertainment, information, or
> education. How anyone could be traced and/or prosecuted for listening to
> anything in open speech on any waveband just shows how little the
> establishment understands! Listening to civil aircraft is illegal but

I seem to recall British government trucks roaming around with apparatus
to listen for non-licensed television. They would pick up
characteristic signals from the television:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_detector_van

> look see how many people you see standing around the perimeter fence at
> most major airports with scanners stuck on their ears! Radio amateur
> licences gave a much wider brief - they could legally listen to maritime
> transmissions for instance which is why in the UK it was necessary to
> take a 12wpm morse test so that you could identify marine distress
> calls. OfCom recognised some years ago that maritime comms is now
> largely VHF for short range and satellite for longer distance so did
> away with the morse test requirement: Japan retained the morse test for
> a long time but set the speed at 0 wpm.
>
> Always puzzled me why the US barred scanners from listening to cellular
> channels but would let you listen to police. The latter have now gone
> largely digital (mostly DMR) but with a suitable radio you can still
> listen to them even from the UK! Barmy IMO.

Cell calls, like phone calls are private.
Police is public. (So most police went to encrypted gear to hide).

[Heron]

On 4/9/2022 12:08 PM, Woody wrote:
> Always puzzled me why the US barred scanners from listening to cellular
> channels but would let you listen to police.

Police scanners are dederally legal with state safety/criminal use caveats.
https://www.zipscanners.com/blogs/learn/are-police-scanners-legal

The way I understand how it works in the USA is that the government exists
at the will of the people so anything the government says that isn't
restricted for security reasons is allowed to be seen in disclosure.

The police are paid by the people so the people have every right to listen
to what the police are saying when they're saying it out in the open.

You can take a picture of anything in public that itself isn't illegal,
and specifically you can take pictures of the police doing what they do.

> largely digital (mostly DMR) but with a suitable radio you can still
> listen to them even from the UK! Barmy IMO.

I think in the USA non-commercial drivers can also "listen" to police radar.

You just can't jam those radar frequencies - but you can detect them.
It's interesting that 1/5th of all US states allow laser jammers though.

Somehow Virginia got around the radar detector laws by some legal loophole.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/states-where-radar-detectors-are-illegal

> The latter have now gone

In the USA, I think it's legal to take a picture of anything in full view in
the public, such as the front of a house (but not the back of the house).

Is it the same with the UK that if it's in the public eye, it's fair game?

> For the record digital cellular has had over-the-air encryption from day
> one. Orange wanted a much greater level of encryption but OfCom (as
> instructed by GCHQ) would not allow it as it meant GCHQ would not be
> able to listen in - which was why Orange was so late to market.
> Curiously GSM cellular was only encrypted over the air but was decoded
> to a standard phone system data stream at the base station and passed
> over the carrier network unencrypted. Airwave (the emergency services
> radio system) on the other hand is end-to-end encrypted.

I wonder how those cellular radio boosters handle that encryption then?

[Woody]

I would argue that comment - in the UK police is most definitely not
public, neither is the ambulance service. As the Fire Service uses the
Airwave digital network which is encrypted then that is now also not public.

[Heron]

On 4/9/2022 3:21 PM, Woody wrote:
> I would argue that comment - in the UK police is most definitely not
> public, neither is the ambulance service. As the Fire Service uses the
> Airwave digital network which is encrypted then that is now also not public.

Does encryption have anything to do with it being public or not?

I just googled and found plenty of hardware & apps for police, fire,
ambulance, marine, & airplane scanners. Just a sampling is shown below.

The 7 Best Police Scanners of 2022
https://www.lifewire.com/best-police-scanners-4132378

The Best Police Scanners for Your Money
https://money.com/best-police-scanner/

What cops need to know about criminals on police frequencies
https://www.police1.com/police-products/communications/radios/articles/theyre-listening-what-cops-need-to-know-about-criminals-on-police-frequencies-sdVy8suWghejoqnN/

https://www.amazon.com/Police-Fire-Scanner/s?k=Police+and+Fire+Scanner
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=police.scanner.radio.broadcastify.citizen&hl=en_GB&gl=GB

[nospam]

In article <t2sb22$9o6$1...@dont-email.me>, David Woolley

<da...@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:

> Even the US makes it illegal to listen on cellular frequencies, even
> though other frequencies, including the police, were open.

the ruling was originally a prohibition for selling a radio capable of
receiving analog cellular bands. scanner manufacturers disabled the
cellular bands, but it was trivial for the user to restore it.

> I don't think either country has changed its legislation to reflect that
> cellular systems are now encrypted.

which has been broken.

[nospam]

In article <t2spp9$ekv$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Heron

<McKe...@ipanywhere.com> wrote:

> The police are paid by the people so the people have every right to listen
> to what the police are saying when they're saying it out in the open.

yep.

> You can take a picture of anything in public that itself isn't illegal,
> and specifically you can take pictures of the police doing what they do.

technically yes, but cops often think otherwise.

> > largely digital (mostly DMR) but with a suitable radio you can still
> > listen to them even from the UK! Barmy IMO.
>
> I think in the USA non-commercial drivers can also "listen" to police radar.

they can 'listen' to anything to anything they want, including
detecting the existence of a signal that is sent into the vehicle.

decrypting the content, if applicable, is a separate issue.

> You just can't jam those radar frequencies - but you can detect them.

true.

> It's interesting that 1/5th of all US states allow laser jammers though.

laser is not regulated by the fcc. it's just light, so specific laws
must be passed to ban it.

> Somehow Virginia got around the radar detector laws by some legal loophole.

they didn't get around anything. radar detector bans are illegal.

the problem is that challenging that is expensive and nobody (so far)
has been interested in pursuing it, thus it remains.

> > The latter have now gone
>
> In the USA, I think it's legal to take a picture of anything in full view in
> the public, such as the front of a house (but not the back of the house).

it is if the back of the house is visible without trespassing.

[knuttle]

Says it works for the whole world.
https://www.broadcastify.com/

[Alan Browne]

On 2022-04-09 16:21, Woody wrote:

>
> I would argue that comment - in the UK police is most definitely not

I didn't clarify: US, Canada: public.

> public, neither is the ambulance service. As the Fire Service uses the
> Airwave digital network which is encrypted then that is now also not
> public.

Many services have gone encrypted. Indeed police (here) often use
personal cell phones between themselves and themselves and everyone else
other than the dispatcher.

[Tweed]

Why would GCHQ care about over the air encryption? The UK authorities have
remote interception rights at exchange level where they can intercept the
call in the clear from the comfort of their desk. I believe did insist on
weaker encryption for certain export markets.

[gtr]

On 2022-04-09 06:26:34 +0000, notya...@gmail.com said:

> On Friday, 8 April 2022 at 20:22:36 UTC+1, gtr wrote:
>> Do these cellular amplifiers work when your cellular signal is low?
>> https://www.weboost.com/boosters/vehicle-car
>>
>> How low?
>

> Effectively no for transmit they don't because the base station
> commands the power level of the phone to prevent adjacent and
> co-channel interference. It sets to a as low a level as practicable,
> but still maintain a connection.
>
> They might provide some assistance on receive, but again the phone
> tells the base station it can reduce power if the signal is too strong.
>
> In any event a hands portable is limited to 0.6 - 1W
> (depending on generation), whereas a car has its own transceiver
> and aerial(s) and can put out 6W, so if you are sat in a car using
> hands free you will get a better signal than if you were stood outside.
>
> Obviously MNO's hate them [and they are illegal in the UK] because
> they mess up reception for other users.

I didn't understand most of what you said other than you don't think
they work but I doubt that is true now that I've spoken to them a bit.

I don't doubt that these cell phone amplifiers are illegal in the UK
so I will set the follow up accordingly to remove u.t.m in any response.

I called UberSignal who said they work fantastically for all carriers.
https://www.ubersignal.com/vehicle-signal-boosters.html

They offer a $400 & $500 USD auto kits which seem to have similar specs.
Boosts: Talk, text & cellular data (4G LTE data & 5G)
Works for: All Phones and All Carriers
Supports: Multiple devices/users
Gain: 50 dB
Power Requirements: DC 6-17V
Max Coverage Area: 6 Foot Radius
Frequency: 700MHz, 800MHz, 1900MHz, 1700/2100MHz
Specific Frequency (Up/Down): 698 - 716 MHz / 728 - 746 MHz, 776 - 787 MHz /
746 - 757 MHz, 824 - 849 MHz / 869 - 894 MHz, 1710 - 1755 MHz / 2110 - 2155
MHz, 1850 - 1915 MHz / 1930 - 1995 MHz
Gain: 50dB / 50dB
Impedance: 50 ohm
Product Manual:
https://www.ubersignal.com/media/wysiwyg/manuals/SureCall/Fusion2Go-Max/Fusion2Go_Max_User_Guide.pdf:
Quick Start Guide:
https://www.ubersignal.com/media/wysiwyg/manuals/SureCall/Fusion2Go-Max/Fusion2Go_Max_Quick_Install_Guide.pdf
Product Specifications: Spec Sheet:
https://www.ubersignal.com/media/wysiwyg/manuals/SureCall/Fusion2Go-Max/Fusion2Go_Max_Data_Sheet.pdf

I don't know why anyone would "hate them" because all they do is make the
signal better and it would seem to me for them to be unrealistic to sell
them
if they didn't work, but that's why I was asking here who already uses them.

[gtr]

On 2022-04-09 09:08:33 +0000, David Woolley said:

> On 09/04/2022 16:16, gtr wrote:
>> Why would it be illegal to listen to ANY signal that is over the air?
>
> In this case, it is because they retransmit the signal in the vehicle.

Thank you for explaining that there is a retransmission inside the vehicle,
where I've subsequently learned they have an effective radius of 2 meters.
https://www.ubersignal.com/vehicle-signal-boosters.html

> However there is an also expectation of privacy. The default UK
> position is that you need a licence to receive radio transmissions,
> although there are some exemptions.

I'm not asking for advice to do anything nefarious.
It's a common need to have better cell phone signal while traveling.

Cell phone boosters are widely sold in the US at normal electronic stores.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/mobile-phone-accessories/signal-boosters/pcmcat326300050011.c

I was asking here hoping that someone used them who could give advice.

> Even the US makes it illegal to listen on cellular frequencies, even
> though other frequencies, including the police, were open.

This question isn't about listening to other people but to better reception.

It's a normal need which even PC Magazine covered in this recent review.
The Best Cell Phone Signal Boosters for 2022
https://www.pcmag.com/picks/best-cell-phone-signal-boosters

This is supposed to be a "real world test" of 11 of them done last October.
11 Best Cell Phone Signal Boosters of 2022
https://www.waveform.com/a/b/guides/best-signal-boosters

> I don't think either country has changed its legislation to reflect that
> cellular systems are now encrypted.

I think in the USA they're perfectly legal and seemingly quite common.
https://www.signalboosters.com/blog/best-cell-phone-signal-boosters/

My main question was whether they work well enough to be worth buying one.
I was hoping to find someone who has used one in a car while traveling.